The Moody Blues are ABSOLUTELY a progressive rock band. What exactly is NOT progressive about their music between 1967 and 1974?!? If the Moodies didn't play prog rock during that era then neither did The Beatles, Procol Harum, The Beach Boys or Pink Floyd. Progressive Rock is not defined solely by complicated rhythms, weird time signatures and stunning musical chops. It is also about doing something NEW and pushing the envelope conceptually, lyrically and through astounding production.
Well said, the Moodies were considered pop, rock, psychedelic and progressive at different times in that 7 album run when they went places no one else did. All my prog and metal friends always considered them prog pioneers.
The biggest issue is the choice of DOFP - its unique for sure - but Threshold of a Dream is where they are pushing into proper prog territory.Lost Chord, EGBDF are all much better examples of the Moodies progness. DOFP is treated by the masses as the only Moody Blues album and Nights In White Satin is a curse on their reputation!
I'd call the Moodies more of a prog-flavored pop band than a full-fledged prog band. They made some great music from 1967 to 1972, but I think Days of Future Passed is given too much credit. The Beatles and the Beach Boys were doing symphonic pop in much more inventive ways during the same era.
I think Sgt Pepper by The Beatles represents the real turning point. I think it changed people’s mindsets from making individual short songs to making whole albums and opened up what was considered possible. The level of innovation and experimentation was amazing for its time. I think it opened the floodgates for what came after. I agree with others that Switched On Bach and Tommy should also probably be on the list.
My impression of Christgau based on having read several dozen of his reviews is that the dude hates music. He's of that era where critics felt like it was their job to tell people what it was ok to enjoy, and they really, really didn't like it when audiences ignored them. What he liked was the idea of him being ahead of the audience. If the audience ever caught up to him, then he ditched whatever they liked, even if he previously approved of it.
'Ogden's Nutgone Flake' - The Small Faces 'Nazz/Nazz' - Nazz 'It's a Beautiful Day' - It's Beautiful Day each shared an element that would blossom into ProgRock.
Just for a laff I’ll list my 10 “building blocks” of prog. 1. Pet Sounds 2. Revolver 3. Procul Harum 4. Days of Future Passed 5. Freak Out 6. Piper at the Gates of Dawn 7. Sgt. Pepper 8. The Who Sell Out 9. Something Else And last but not least: In the Court of the Crimson King. The album that launched a thousand ships. A few of my picks are not technically “prog” but in my opinion they surely helped the genre get a foothold. So, there you have it.
Decent and credible list certainly. Early Prog had a jazz element which gradually left it as we entered the 70's e.g. Graham Bond, Colosseum, the Nice, early Chicago, If, Blood Sweat & Tears et al. Never understood why anyone, anywhere at any time would care what a clueless charlatan like Robert Christgau thinks about anything. If he were a historian he would trace the antecedents of the Stones from the time travelled New York Dolls.
How can you comply a list of the greatest albums and not include all the first seven Genesis albums including A Trick of the Tail and you have no Tull either! Wow!
having listened to the theme I was really pleased that The Nice made the list, I saw them many times at the Marquee in Wardour Street and Yes as well who were also highly influential but again aside from Hendrix you have to start with Genesis but close behind Tull, King Crimson, Floyd
For your consideration: An Electric Storm by White Noise (1969). This album was likely the first electro-pop album. Delia Derbyshire and David Vorhaus coming out of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop would, through this album, work to establish the role of the studio as a critical element in the music making process. Forever Changes by Love (1967). Arthur Lee's seminal bridging between psychedelia, folk rock and classical music. Insomuch as psychedelia was the proto-progressive rock, Arthur Lee would explicitly incorporate musical elements and inventions that would go on to be directly associated with progressive rock. Cauldron by Fifty Foot Hose (1968). This band played an important role in introducing electronic experimentations from Europe (specifically from Germany and the U.K) into the psychedelic scene in San Francisco. Though not a commercial success, I'd expect that Cauldron would be found in the record collections of other west coast visionaries such as Zappa, Captain Beefheart, and the Doors.
Soft Machine Volume Two is just simply one of the greatest records ever, but I'd say in terms of building to prog, their debut the year before laid some groundwork, especially with the suite of Hope For Happiness.
Thanks so much for the great introduction to these really important albums! I would like to suggest another name: early Barclay James harvest. They are extremely melodic and beautiful and heavy use of Mellotron. Another group, group 1850, is also a huge band to me.
I would cite Iron Butterfly's In A Gadda Da Vida, as a major building block of prog. (also metal and psychedelic). A full album side of minor key, organ driven, multi movement, mostly instrumental, pseudo classical rock, that sold like hotcakes. It no doubt gave musicians permission to break out of the three minute pop mode and explore.
I was going to put something like that myself. Not least because it contains the 17 minute long epic In Held 'Twas In I which could be one of the earliest discernible pieces that could be called "Prog Rock". I first heard about it on a BBC 4 Prog Rock documentary from 2009.
I would have said the same thing had you not said it. I was also going to comment similarly to Alan White that Shine On Brightly was an even stronger contender. In 1968, In Held 'Twas In I was the very definition of Prog Rock .
Here's another vote for Shine On Brightly - I think it is right up there with Jimi Hendrix Experience's 'Are You Experienced?' and The Moody Blue's 'On The Threshold of A Dream' as an album and band that broke the mold for what rock albums could be.
I agree strongly that Shine On, Brightly is the pivotal point in PH's output. A Whiter Shade of Pales was more popular and that's the criterion Christgau used, as he tends to be a fairly myopic individual. Fairport Convention (I saw them open for Traffic) were at the forefront of long non-blues based improv, which was a foundation of Progressive rock. I think its inclusion is legitimate, as it encouraged Europeans to embrace non-blues based music. The Mothers of Invention through Burnt Weenie Sandwich deserve a great deal of credit for founding prog, as do certain American bands like Spirit, the Doors, SRC, and others, but some people just dogmatically trace prog back to English routes or obvious influences on the Beatles, but the level of experimentation in popular music between 1966 and 1969 was mind boggling. Hawkwind came late to the game. I would mention Van der Graaf Generator or Gong as earlier foundational bands, too. Christgau is a schmuck, and he probably only gave the Nice credit because they had a guitarist then. One thing I should point out is that there was a huge influence of classical music AND free jazz (Albert Ayler on the Beatles, the list of influences on Freak Out, free improvising on Pink Floyd and King Crimson (KC acknowledged listening to John Handy Live at Monterey, a jazz album that would appeal to a lot of rock fans). Because most critics think in boxes, he also ignores some elements of Hendrix, Cream, Love, Grateful Dead, and even the Velvet Underground as influences on Prog before rock degenerated into warring camps of purists with agendas. Chris Welch made a great point that most English music was progressive up to a point, as was American rock until 1969 when AM programmers changed direction. The success of certain acts like the Who (who were also progressive, IMHO) and blues, r and r, and country roots influenced bands dominated the airwaves hurt experimental and progressive music as early as 1968-1969)
The evolution of the Moog synth, specifically exhibited in the album Switched-On Bach (1968) by Wendy Carlos, has to figure in all those bombastic classical influences in prog. Another album that gets bypassed in this discussion is The Who’s Tommy (1969).
Totally agree on Switched On Bach. When Keith Emerson heard that album he immediately wrote to Robert Moog and asked if he might like to give him one of his synthesizers. The answer was no. Emo bought one instead. Another early pioneering album in synthesized music is Moog: The Electric Eclectics of Dick Hyman.
@@Frank_nwobhm Cans and Brahms by Wakeman via Yes also comes to mind. I’d heard that story about Emerson and Moog. We could also get into discussions about what single instrument most influenced prog… Moog synth hugely influential.
@@ambientideas1 In as much as the Moog and the Melotron contributed massively to the advancement of prog rock, I'd have to roll with the trusty and reliable Hammond organ being the biggest contributor. It was the true workhorse of all the great keyboardists.
@@mr.bloodvessel260 The mellotron is so important in the development in symphonic prog because you pretty much had a symphony at your finger tips where as the moog was a great NEW lead instrument for the genre as well as providing some interesting low end sounds.
I think the reason Fairport Convention was included in this list is their influence on bands such as Renaissiance, Caravan & Camel for example..I don't disagree with the picks per se but I would have included Jimi Hendrix Experience Electric Ladyland LP 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn To Be) & Moon, Turn The Tides... Gently, Gently Away are some of the tracks I think you can make the
@@classicalbum Moon turns the tides/A Merman by JH I played endlessly never heard anything like it, Hendrix produced and wrote this track himself, it was other worldly!
I agree with most of your observations about the original list, except that I do think that _"In the Court of the Crimson King"_ *does* belong on this list of "building blocks" even though it is also a full-fledged prog album. I was around when this was originally released, and I remember that after the first listen I had the thought of "There are a million albums possible now which never would have been made 45 minutes ago". It both introduces and totally-succeeds at some aspects of prog which had not solidified before this album. The fact that it totally succeeds at "being prog" does not take away from the fact that it introduced some of those things. You described it as the flag-in-the-sand for prog. I would also call it the lighthouse to other groups: "You know all those experiments you've been doing? This is the direction to take those experiments. Plenty of room here for everyone to create and explore.".
There are a couple of folk rock albums I would put above Liege and Lief. Founding Fairport vocalist Judy Dyble sang on a beautiful album, Morning Way (1969), under the band name Trader Horne. The folk, jazz, and psychedelic influences are all there. The tracks are joined together with short musical linkers. Basket of Light (1969) is probably the best of Pentangle. The instrumental virtuosity is striking in the folk, jazz, psychedelic and early music influenced sound. The epic track Jack Orion (1970) is also an interesting listen, especially for fans of Gentle Giant.
Great list... but I'd have to make way for The Zombie "Odessey & Oracle" in there somewhere, as well.... though I don't know who'd I boot from your excellent list.
Electric prunes debut album should have been on there as well as Electric prunes mass in f minor, an 1968 full length small orchestra Prog with psychedelia.
Never really occurred to me that “ Freak Out “ would be so influential upon prog but its been a while since I’d listened to that. However I do think “ Days “ from the Moodys should be given a bit more credit in being a major builder especially because of their ambitious work with the London Symphony. After all, classical music was such a huge influence for so many prog bands that followed.
Freak Out featured a 47 piece orchestra, concept songs, free jazz influences and electronic experimentation and classical influences. It was just as much an influence on Sargent Pepper as Pet Sounds. It's an essential building block of Prog. Everything the Mothers did before KC's debut album was an important influence on Progressive Music. Zappa could rightly claim that virtually all prog through 1975 came directly or indirectly from the Mothers.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Great insight Gary. I'm all about getting to the original roots of all my favorite bands and genres of rock. Love delving into the trivia.
Yessir! FZ & The MoI! That album turned my whole head around. I was perhaps the only kid in my junior high who was walking the halls singing (to myself), "What would you do if the people you knew...were the plastic that melted and the chromium, too..." Good times!
The opening track whilst to my mind a far cry from Prog or at least what it would become may be my favourite opening track on a debut album EVER. That Rolling Stones-esque guitar riff and the line "Mr. America walk on by..........." possibly the best opening lyrics to a debut album and a killer way to start an over 25 year career.
While you can make a case for Pet Sounds being an influence on Prog (due to the vast musical palette it utilized), I would say that Brian Wilson's/The Beach Boys' lost album "Smile" might have been the actual first Prog record if it had been actually finished and released in 1967.
I think an overlooked album in terms of influencing what would become known as prog rock...is Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by The Small Faces from 1968. That album represents well how psychedelic rock transformed into prog, and is also one of the earliest examples of the concept album, which of course would become very much associated with prog rock later in the 70s.
Interesting, I always thought Christgau hated prog - his website has this to say about in the Court of the Crimson King - "this is ersatz shit. D+", so why would he bother trying to tell us what the building blocks for Progressive Rock are - is it because he has a very over inflated opinion of his importance, which maybe he once had, however as a trend setter and what would now be called influencer he and Lester Bangs to name just two tried very hard to kill off progressive rock - not enough 'authentic blues' I guess - although the Blues came from Jazz as did a lot of prog - melding the heritage and traditions of american jazz and european classical - however I dont think he really understood it, and ok he doesnt have to like it, but just because you dont like or understand it doesnt mean you have to slag it off. Then again a bad review from him could indicate its possbly quite good? I dont think its surprising that he's gone for some of the classic prog forebears - Beach Boys, Beatles, Moody Blues, Procol Harum - I'd agree its not quite yet there with the last two but they were on their way, I dont see why Liege and Lief is there and its easy to pick a couple of Psychedelic albums that then transformed into prog - such as the Floyd , who werent yet prog and the Nice, who were nearly there, very much tantalisingly (maggie) on the cusp. I always felt that Psychedelia' seemed to be a worthy and ok or cool thing to like though - how many critics slaver over Piper at the Gates and then decry Atom Heart Mother and so on? Yes I think the Mothers deserve to be in there, maybe not necessarily at no 1 but certainly an influence. As for Soft Machine - yes I see that but why not go a step back to the Wilde Flowers from which came both the Softs and Caravan and thereafter the 'Canterbury' scene? As for builiding blocks I'd also go so far as to stick Deep Puprle mark 1 and Vanilla Fudge in there. And then you could go back to albums by the likes of Frank Sinatra to see the development of the concept album - even though Prog doesnt have to include a 'concept'.
It is indeed an odd choice to pick, of all people, Robert Christgau's viewpoint on progressive rock's top album. As you mentioned, he was known to dislike Prog for sure. The fact that his initial rating of King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" was a D+ pretty much says it all. Oh well, at least he did come around to an extent when gave Crimson's "Red" album an A rating when it was released in 1974.
My Oh My. Just to think, giving the (arguably) single most important prog rock album a D+ review, I can't wrap my mind around that. I can understand not liking something, as in it's just not up to his personal taste, or even the genre, but then why even write the review? I assume this is with the passage of time. If it was brand new I could forgive the writer.
Christgau said a lot of bullshit.. but I personally listen to records and if I like them..I like them..critics are a dime a dozen...I'm Motown critic without reserve.stand up for your favorite records!! Great job and analysis..so many changes in the60s caused the prog movement..
Thank you for posting this. Lyric for you: "I could be your Soft Machine, you could be my only, cultivate obscurity, and save your tonsils in a Mason jar...". Always wondered about that...Ass Ponys. Song is "Only".
As a fan of Fairport Convention since How I Spent My Summer Vacation (simply Fairport Convention in the U.S. on A&M) and an equal fan of Prog Rock, I would never even think of them together or call Fairport a Prog pioneer of some sort. I agree that the moody Blues belong as a signpost. They had the ambition to make something unified and consequential and that was enough in 1967.
What you're missing about Fairport COnvention is that it wasn't just "folk rock" it was folk rock with some serious jamming -- listen to A Sailor's Life, there's nothing like it from other folk rock acts of the day. And rememeber that their influence obviously reached to Led Zeppelin since they invited singer Sandy Denny to sing with them on Battle of Evermore, and clearly took a lot of influence from them in their folk influences. Still ... not a prog group by any stretch.
I can never forget the first time I heard 'The Mothers' on of all things, Juke Box Jury in around 1966. The panel of four judges all panned them and said they would never make it in the UK and voted it a miss.
I can agree with most of these, but the one I feel is really missing is Electric Ladyland, esp the 1983 sequence, the full use of 16 tracks and sheer sonic innovation.
Since I've played with Charlie Whitney, can I put forward my nomination of 'additional album that should/could be on this list' to be 'Music In A Dolls House' by Family. (1968)?
The strong influence of jazz and, in particular, classical on prog is ignored. Many of the prog musicians had basic formal musical training up to the level of playing in youth orchestras and singing in church choirs so the knowledge and experience of serious music was far greater than with the usual pop/blues/rock musician of the time. It's not surprising that they wanted to do rather more than play 12 bar blues.
I agree. I'd cite Duke Ellington's Black Brown and Beige as an influence on the Pink Floyd end of prog, and would certainly class it as the first "concept album" , even though he described it as a symphony himself.
How could you not include either The Nice or the first ELP album? Emerson's long complex solos, and his combining of rock and classical styles were completely opposite that of the pop rock of the day. In fact, like Bach's life defining the Baroque era, one could almost use the lifetime of the Nice and ELP as the start and end of the first progressive rock period.
I would pick Zappa’s ‘Absolutely Free’ rather than ‘Freak Out’. Perhaps I would have included Electric Ladyland as Stuart pointed out, and there are many singles by The Move, Terry Jacks, The Small Faces and others that are really important in shaping prog’s emergence from psychedelia. I guess these came from ‘Good Vibrations’ symphonic. Beefheart’s first album has the tempo and key changes we expect to find in prog. Plus, where are ‘The Pretty Things”? I think The Byrds, in terms of their meandering raga melodies, appear throughout prog. So you can’t ignore the influence of Ravi Shankar and the rising popularity of Indian music in the development of long-form themes and variations. So of course, we have Beethoven in the mix! Plus, how can this list not include Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, James Brown, Sly Stone, Miles’ ‘In a Slilent Way’? These did more to provide templates and ideas than many of the rock and folk albums listed, as important as they are.
The whole point of prog is that it draws from a range of influences, not just previous rock acts. I would have had at least one jazz and one classic album in the list. So I would nominate John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" and Igor Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring" (take your pick of many good recordings) as being particularly influential.
I think you could make an argument either way on most of these albums with the exception of king crimson. I would throw in love's forever changes and even their earlier album da capo. They experimented with strings, classical arrangements and lengthy jams. Both from 1967. Jefferson airplanes after bathing at baxters could be considered too.
The main criteria for the list seems to be 1969 or earlier so...Iron Butterfly, Cream, Deep Purple, Jimi, Led Zep, The Who, Santana, and I don't know...maybe YES?
Agree with most of what you say. I am just wondering how influential Can's first album was on prog musicians? Maybe not much at the time, but looking back it seems significant. I would also be tempted to add Caravan's first album as a signpost to prog.
I'd go with Martin Denny "Quiet Village" from 1959 as well as Kind of Blue from Miles. Albums that completely shit on what was expected at a time when nobody ever strayed. The birth of most modern radio music that is defiant in anyway - 1959 the year of all of that. More good proto music in that year than any other. Even Les Baxter Space Escapades for Googie jet age stuff, or the Forbidden Planet soundtrack from the French electronic duo. Prog was already forming way earlier than anything mentioned in this post.
Surprisingly I agree with you on all points. KC's debut has a good claim to be the first fully fledged Prog album so isn't one of the albums that built up to Prog. Hawkwind's first album was released a year later so can't be included. There are plenty of others that could be included, I think psychedelic music as a whole led towards prog.
Not a historian of prog, but your analysis makes a lot of sense to me. Always loved the Moodies, who I would consider prog adjacent. My first experience of the Moodies was c1970 with To Our Children's Children's Children. As an 11 you or thereabouts, it was a whole new sound world. TOCCC I would suggest is more prog than some of their other albums. Fairport Convention does seem a tad out of place on this list. Going to have to listen to the album again
Love your prog videos mate but you really do need to find the time to listen to Fever Tree's first album, especially for a vid like this one. They're an American band from the mid 60s kinda psychedelia, but more importantly proto-progressive. Their most well-known song "Return of the Native (San Francisco Girls)" is amazing, the guitarist more Fripp than Fripp, all pre-overdrive, effects driven playing. Give it a listen, you won't be disappointed. Cheers!
Soft Machine Vol 2 was incredibly influential. All of the defining characteristics of the Canterbury scene flow from here: witty, literate (tips of the hat to Beckett & Pynchon at a time when most of their contemporaries' reading rarely stretched beyond Tolkien), self-referential lyrics; a mixture of pop melodies and out-there free-improv; virtuosity deployed as a means not an end,; Pythonesque sense of humour (even though it was released a month before Python hit the airwaves!) and a refusal to take itself too seriously. Without it, no Egg, Hatfield & The North, Henry Cow, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Aksak Maboul etc etc...
I think that Fairport Convention is included because of the heavy leaning towards folk and its elements and introducing them into more complex structures rather than creating a more conventional straightforward folk songs.
I'd also add that why I'd include Liege & Lief is that it, in common with most european prog, it didn't rely on the blues, but instead on native european music, either folk, or classical.
I hoped that Zappa would be on this list and I am happy to see him here. Never expected to see him at number one though. As you may have gathered from previous comments on your videos and other videos too I am a huge fan of FZ and have been for about 30 years now.
@@jonathansturm4163 I was a teenager when I truly started on my Zappadom. I'd heard him on and off your years before that but it was my 16, 17, 18 year old self that really got him. I've loved him ever since.
One album in 1969, no live performances. One of the first and an influence to the Prog that followed: "Touch" - led by Don Galluci, the keyboardist for the Kingsmen on "Louie Louie".
Finally, a Chanel/reviewer/musicologist who doesn't automatically dismiss progressive rock out of hand as some sort of intellectual wa*king! I've always loved prog. rock, in fact, I think I loved it long before the term was regularly used. I'm really not familiar enough with the early days, but I think that you're right on most counts. I'll no doubt be posting on various subjects as I have now subscribed.
I agree strongly that Shine On, Brightly is the pivotal point in PH's output. A Whiter Shade of Pales was more popular and that's the criterion Christgau used, as he tends to be a fairly myopic individual. Fairport Convention (I saw them open for Traffic) were at the forefront of long non-blues based improv, which was a foundation of Progressive rock. I think its inclusion is legitimate, as it encouraged Europeans to embrace non-blues based music. The Mothers of Invention through Burnt Weenie Sandwich deserve a great deal of credit for founding prog, as do certain American bands like Spirit, the Doors, SRC, and others, but some people just dogmatically trace prog back to English routes or obvious influences on the Beatles, but the level of experimentation in popular music between 1966 and 1969 was mind boggling. Hawkwind came late to the game. I would mention Van der Graaf Generator or Gong as earlier foundational bands, too. Christgau is a schmuck, and he probably only gave the Nice credit because they had a guitarist then. One thing I should point out is that there was a huge influence of classical music AND free jazz (Albert Ayler on the Beatles, the list of influences on Freak Out, free improvising on Pink Floyd and King Crimson (KC acknowledged listening to John Handy Live at Monterey, a jazz album that would appeal to a lot of rock fans). Because most critics think in boxes, he also ignores some elements of Hendrix, Cream, Love, Grateful Dead, and even the Velvet Underground as influences on Prog before rock degenerated into warring camps of purists with agendas. Chris Welch made a great point that most English music was progressive up to a point, as was American rock until 1969 when AM programmers changed direction. The success of certain acts like the Who (who were also progressive, IMHO) and blues, r and r, and country roots influenced bands dominated the airwaves hurt experimental and progressive music as early as 1968-1969)
Pet Sounds, absolutely. The first prog album is the revolutionary art pop concept album Eli and the Thirteenth Confession (March 1968) by the New York teenage genius Laura Nyro. The album " blew everybody's mind " Todd Rundgren. Highly complex innovative songs eschewing traditional form with layered arrangements using flutes, string harp and timpani as well as expected instruments played by an army of jazz greats. Sex a major theme. Way ahead ot the game. Nyro "probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John (2007). Always rated 5 stars.
You should do a video on Parliament/Funkadelic - one the of the greatest and most ignored bands who have quite a few prog elements. They are still going and rarely get a mention which is a real travesty.
I guess Clinton is very progressive but his musical/intelectual building blocks is more where Sly/Jimi took the JamesBrown elements through Beethoven/Stockhausen. As JamesBlood Ulmer sings...Jazz is the teacher, Funk is the preacher!
@@jasfan8247 Parliament have a lot of folk influence too. For example working with Ruth copeland who wrote songs with them and had them play on her records. They used bagpipes, harpsichord and harp. Sly and Jimi never went down that road. Yes they also have a big classical influence too. I do class them as a funk band but they were not always. People dismiss them because they dont realy know their music thoroughly. Their lyrics incorporate fantasy, phychedelic ideas too. Not to mention politics and more funk associated themes. When I saw them live they had 10 minute cello solos and did country and western songs for an hour. They realy do deserve more recognition IMO
@@Captain_Rhodes certainly, and they have a big name for inventing the P-Funk but this progrock scene is mostly Eurosensitive.(they also don't mention The Residents) Funky story, once about '68 they played on VanillaFudge equipment and that sound made Clinton realise the possibilities. They did shows with Stooges, MC5 also in 69.
I don't much agree. Some of those albums added studio experimentation but I would be looking for longer form tracks drawing on folk and classical music with something original around keys and timings. So no, not Moody Blues or Beach Boys who made songs which were pleasant and unchallenging much like Alan Parsons in the 70s or Asia in the 80s. I go along with The Nice and Crimson. And Floyd and Soft Machine. I would expect to see Jethro Tull in there. Living in the Past perhaps. Maybe Traffic? I don't usually think of US influences as UK prog is pretty unique. Zappa was doing similar stuff though. I am a huge Hawkwind fan but they are not prog pioneers. Theirs was a stripped down trippy sound that owes a lot to Pink Floyd (Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun) and Black Sabbath (Iron Man sounds like a Hawkwind song). Hard to see how Genesis and Yes got their influences.
Yes to Days of Future Passed; Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band; The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack . Not sure about the rest (No to Pet Sounds and Liege and Leif though I have both albums). I guess were saying that the building blocks of prog. are being laid in 1967/1968?
People will argue about this stuff for ages, what should be in, what should be out etc. A lot of American music was pretty formulaic, and I think only the Electric Prunes and the Mothers (maybe Moby Grape?) fit in the kind of 'way out' or 'what the hell was that' category that changes your life - the hallmark of a good prog band. I would say The Pretty Things 'S.F.Sorrow' should definitely be in the list somewhere. Glad that Nice made it to the list, always entertaining when I saw them. Other mentions should be made including Family, Barclay James Harvest and I am worried that the Crazy World of Arthur Brown are not on the list, because this was truly crazy. Skid Row definitely shook it up late 60's effortlessly creating and deserve a mention. Graeme Bond was also an extreme influence on the development of music in the 60s. For me, I think prog was almost dead by 1973/74. When I listened to Weather Report, Crossings and Live-Evil, I moved on.
I'll just add, with a thanks to the people that liked my original comment.... If you want a definition of Prog Rock in 2022, stay on UA-cam and find the live vision of Robert Plant and Alison Krauss playing 'When the levee breaks' - this is Prog 2022, utterly mindblowing.
While Sgt. Pepper might have perfected the album form, its songs (except for the last one) were mostly traditional in nature. The Beatles have to be on this list, but it is *Revolver* that was the Beatles' most daring album, and the one that most influenced what was to become Progressive Rock.
I absolutely love your posts. Your energy, vibrance, and ability to create dreamscape from an album I had hitherto not seen. Piper At The Gates Of Dawn I do believe inspired much of the British Prog scene. Just an aside point, I find it risible that Steven Wilson claims to not like Genesis, or Floyd. I must be hearing their nuances in my own mind when I listen to him play. Distancing yourself from yourself is an obscure but common trait of musicians
Hmmm, I guess everyone has their own experience. For me, it started with #1: Sgt Pepper. #2: Then Disraeli Gears, which isn't really prog but the beginning of virtuoso musicianship in a rock band. #3: Zappa's Hot Rats. #4: Blood Sweat and Tears mixing bop and pop. #5: Axis Bold as Love #6: In the Court of the Crimson King. Of course. #7 The YES Album. #8: E.L.P. #9: Gentle Giant Octopus #10: Mahavishnu Orchestra.
In Summer '67 also Vanilla Fudge came out! Their long winding version of 'Hangin on' inspired a lot of good players. Is Mountain's Nantucket Sleighride progrock?
@@tonyoliver2750 My memory is getting dim. I recall the Nice doing the Bandenburg Concherto, can't recall ELP doing Bach's Tocatta. Ginistera's Tocatta in Brain Salad Surgery, maybe?
@@alanhynd7886 Well I'm 68 so perhaps it's my memory that's malfunctioning. Perhaps I'm confusing it with Carl Palmer's ELP. ua-cam.com/video/62P1N37TQ3w/v-deo.html
I don't consider the Moody Blues as a prog band, especially in their classic period (first 7 albums). Certainly they were influential, and a lot of us lovers of prog really like them; but I would argue that they're better described as psychedelic, or perhaps as proto prog, given the milieu in which they lived.I find it fascinating that psychedelic music spawned two great rock genres: prog, and heavy metal. Prog took the folk/jazz/classical aspect of psychedelia, while metal ran with the blues aspect. (This is , of course, an over simplification). Anyway, thanks for a thought provoking video!
I have to disagree with you there, I regard the seven The Moody Blues albums from Days of Future passed to Seventh Sojourn as prog. But do we have an agreed definition of prog?
@@tonyoliver2750 I think your view is perfectly reasonable, and clearly a strong case can be made for it. Certainly what is or is not Prog is open to debate, as with any genre. Ultimately, I think that genre definitions cannot be rigid, and that overlaps in genres are unavoidable. The Moody's influence on the development of prog is undeniable, and they were masters in their use of the mellotron (which is one of my proofs for the existence of a loving God 🙂). And I must admit that when I think of prog rock, the Moody Blues usually make an appearance in my consciousness!
I agree that should be on a review and I hope it will be one day. I just love that album and have been listening to some tracks from it on UA-cam over the last couple of weeks.
Re: Fairport Convention , maybe it's listed because so many of the major proggers cite it. I've heard many of them do so in various interviews here and there.
The moody blues were 'progressive' in the truest sense, especially from 1967-72, I feel the word PROG as its interpreted today, is slightly different to the progressive of late 60s to early to middle 70s,in that sense, even though I feel the moodies were indeed forefathers or one of the very first to bring us "symphonic rock" so, what I'm saying is this😂, the moody blues were progressive and "Prog" from that period mentioned"nights in white satin" "have you heard part 1(the voyage)" have you heard"part 2 " and all of " Our children's children's children" emphatically prove, they ceased being prog from the start of the 80s, though "the voice" from "long distance voyager" was prog pop/rock, though they probably stopped being prog with 78's " octave" album, though "steppin' in a slide zone" was prog lite!
@@tonyoliver2750 absolutely, it was always going to be that way after Mike pinder left the band, but we always have the so called "core 7" to remind us how amazing they were😊👌
Thanks for putting Zappa at number one, he is a musical genius! I was at the Hendrix/Soft Machine concert in Hartford CT after Electric Ladyland was released in '69. Soft Machine didn't make an impact and was a bad choice for an opening act for Hendrix IMO. I liked your choices for prog rock influences & maybe would have included Vanilla Fudge & Blood, Sweat & Tears 1st album. When I 1st heard Sgt. Peppers I had a feeling this was a game changing album which would have a major impact on future albums because nothing any band did prior could compare.
Vanilla Fudge is a good choice. I know one reason SM opened for Hendrix was because Hendrix really liked them. Jimi also liked the Nice and King Crimson, as well.
The Beatles' 'Revolver' and single 'Penny Lane'/'Strawberry Fields' (was to have been on 'Sgt. Pepper's') as well as the Beach Boys' 'Good Vibrations' and 'Heroes and Villains' certainly signalled the 'progressive' direction of pop, though mellotron use aside (by the Beatles) didn't leave much of an enduring sonic imprint. IMO, the band that suggested the concept, instrumentation, and sonic structure of Prog as we know it today was Vanilla Fudge. Their 1967 self-titled debut album, with its fiercely competent rhythm section of Carmine Appice and Tim Bogert, distortion-driven guitar by Vince Martell, and soaring Hammond and vocals from Mark Stein were the template. Indeed, the appearance of the Fudge in London attracted the major local musos and elicited a WTF response similar to that of Hendrix's earliest appearances in the city. Their omission (and by extension early Deep Purple, who claimed to want to be the 'European version' of the Fudge) makes this list untenable IMO. Also, Scottish trio 1-2-3 (keys/drums/bass; later renamed Clouds), via their residency at the Marquee attracted the attention of fellow Scot Ian Anderson, Robert Fripp, Keith Emerson, and Jon Anderson. It seems Emerson got the idea of standing at the keys from Clouds, and Anderson took their idea for Simon & Garfunkel's 'America' to Yes. The drummer, Harry Hughes, was, like Carl Palmer (then with Chris Farlowe's Thunderbirds) from the Buddy Rich school of proficient jazz chops and like Appice instilled the idea that prog players were proficient players. Jethro Tull drummer Doane Perry is a massive fan of Hughes and Clouds, something that likely happened via his former boss Anderson, who knew the lads prior to forming Tull. I'm no fan of Christgau - he seemed to take the first part of his name too seriously - but the Moody Blues did suggest progression from pop. As did Procol Harum, though the debut album, musically, is more blues inspired (the band was largely Southend r&b band the Paramounts) than is typically conceded. Subsequent albums were more daring (i.e., progressive), with prog rockers covers of the likes of 'In Held T'was I' a reminder of their enduring inspiration. One is tempted to add the Crazy World of Arthur Brown, another keys/bass/drums lineup, though with only one very exciting and highly dynamic album (Carl Palmer joined after its release; Colosseum drummer Jon Hiseman and Soft Machine's John Marshall also recorded tracks with the band, with the latter on two of the album's cuts) that band didn't have the opportunity to realise its potential. Palmer and organist/composer Vincent Crane went on to form Atomic Rooster. It is easy to understand why 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is considered the defining album for prog rock: It was arguably the first to incorporate all those things that ultimately suggested/defined prog beginnings - classically informed keys, wicked rhythm section, dynamic vocals, liberal use of time signatures, and no fear of extending songs beyond the 2-minute-and-thirty-eight seconds timeline. From the cover art to the extreme dynamics to the contrasting sonics that album screamed 'This is something no-one else has done'. It also picked up on Vanilla Fudge's template - as did Yes, a pop band that got rockier with each of its earliest albums. Also worthy of mention are the Yardbirds and the Move. The former, once Jeff Beck was onboard, were certainly adventurous and daring on singles ('Over Under Sideways Down', 'Shapes of Things', 'Happenings 10 Years Time Ago') and the 'Yardbirds' album (aka 'Roger the Engineer') though their influence is more noticeable in other rock forms including garage rock, psych, punk, blues and even fusion (largely due to Beck's adventurous guitar works). Roy Wood's vision for the Move became increasingly progressive with the addition of Jeff Lynne to the band. Still, the early singles and eponymous debut album were as progressive as any. But by the time of 'Message From the Country' (which saw the band evolve into ELO), progressive was surely a well-warranted description. In summation - the Beatles and Vanilla Fudge get my vote for initiating Prog. 1-2-3 should be noted for defining the genre aesthetic. King Crimson for defining it to the masses. And Yes for popularising it beyond just the eclectic boffins who wallow in such narratives as the one at play with Christgau's dubious list.
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue, Bitches Brew Coltrane - Giant Steps Beach Boys - Pet Sounds Beatles - Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White, Abbey Road Stones - Satanic Kinks - Village Green, Arthur Who - Tommy Pretty Things - SF Sorrow Zappa - Freak Out Nice - Ars vita, Emerlist VdGG - Aerosol Grey Machine Soft Machine - Volume 2 Jethro Tull - Stand Up Led Zeppelin - 1 Caravan - Caravan Amon Duul - Phallus Dei Terry Riley - Rainbow in Curved Air Aphrodite's Child - End Of the World Hendrix - Electric Ladyland 25 albums - but I'm still missing some - side note - I really don't think Pet Sounds should be considered a prog rock building block album but because so many have said so - that probably influenced me to include it on this list. If I were to swap it out I'd replace it with The Moody Blues - On the Threshold of a Dream. I do think that is more of a prog building block album than the earlier Moody Blues albums based on the prog like ending 4 songs (Have You Heard medley) - which sums up the album in prog like fashion.
Jon Lord would have been a prog king if the rest of the band weren't so rock and roll. Child in Time is very proggy and there was the Concerto for Group and Orchestra.
Pretty sure heard either Rutherford or Banks say that Genesis' sound the acoustic 12 string guitars were inspired by Fotheringay by Sandy Denny from "What we did on our holidays" by Fairport Convention the keyboards from "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harum... please correct me if I am wrong - we love Gabriel era Genesis-do we not?
The Moody Blues are ABSOLUTELY a progressive rock band. What exactly is NOT progressive about their music between 1967 and 1974?!? If the Moodies didn't play prog rock during that era then neither did The Beatles, Procol Harum, The Beach Boys or Pink Floyd. Progressive Rock is not defined solely by complicated rhythms, weird time signatures and stunning musical chops. It is also about doing something NEW and pushing the envelope conceptually, lyrically and through astounding production.
Well said, the Moodies were considered pop, rock, psychedelic and progressive at different times in that 7 album run when they went places no one else did. All my prog and metal friends always considered them prog pioneers.
The biggest issue is the choice of DOFP - its unique for sure - but Threshold of a Dream is where they are pushing into proper prog territory.Lost Chord, EGBDF are all much better examples of the Moodies progness. DOFP is treated by the masses as the only Moody Blues album and Nights In White Satin is a curse on their reputation!
agree, It may not be cathagorised as Progressive rock. But the feeling of it and the consistent story of the day. Make it prog
I'd call the Moodies more of a prog-flavored pop band than a full-fledged prog band. They made some great music from 1967 to 1972, but I think Days of Future Passed is given too much credit. The Beatles and the Beach Boys were doing symphonic pop in much more inventive ways during the same era.
Love the Moody Blues, have to say , a " Question of Balance" was the peak for me.
SO GLAD Procol Harum gets a shout out. They often seem to get forgotten.
A Salty Dog is my PH favotite
I think Sgt Pepper by The Beatles represents the real turning point. I think it changed people’s mindsets from making individual short songs to making whole albums and opened up what was considered possible. The level of innovation and experimentation was amazing for its time. I think it opened the floodgates for what came after. I agree with others that Switched On Bach and Tommy should also probably be on the list.
Until you realize that Paul McCartney pointed out Freak Out by the MOI as inspiration for Sgt. Pepper's...
@@DWHarper62 maybe…all things build on what went before. But it was Sgt Pepper that had the widest cultural impact.
@@PhilW222 I don't think that was our homework assignment
@@PhilW222 Sergeant Pepper's was the first progressive album whose songs would on my mom's middle-of-the-road format AM radio station.
My impression of Christgau based on having read several dozen of his reviews is that the dude hates music. He's of that era where critics felt like it was their job to tell people what it was ok to enjoy, and they really, really didn't like it when audiences ignored them.
What he liked was the idea of him being ahead of the audience. If the audience ever caught up to him, then he ditched whatever they liked, even if he previously approved of it.
It's funny that so much of this list is "What Robert Christgau wished Prog had been."
He loves Wussy though, as do I. 😻
He has always been quite pretentious and a bit too "high on his own supply" so to speak, imo
He did include an album Christgau hated- the first KC.
I agree Christgau hates music that is ambitious or protracted.
'Ogden's Nutgone Flake' - The Small Faces
'Nazz/Nazz' - Nazz
'It's a Beautiful Day' - It's Beautiful Day
each shared an element that would blossom into ProgRock.
Just for a laff I’ll list my 10 “building blocks” of prog.
1. Pet Sounds
2. Revolver
3. Procul Harum
4. Days of Future Passed
5. Freak Out
6. Piper at the Gates of Dawn
7. Sgt. Pepper
8. The Who Sell Out
9. Something Else
And last but not least: In the Court of the Crimson King.
The album that launched a thousand ships.
A few of my picks are not technically “prog” but in my opinion they surely helped the genre get a foothold.
So, there you have it.
Me like your list (a lot)
Decent and credible list certainly. Early Prog had a jazz element which gradually left it as we entered the 70's e.g. Graham Bond, Colosseum, the Nice, early Chicago, If, Blood Sweat & Tears et al. Never understood why anyone, anywhere at any time would care what a clueless charlatan like Robert Christgau thinks about anything. If he were a historian he would trace the antecedents of the Stones from the time travelled New York Dolls.
How can you comply a list of the greatest albums and not include all the first seven Genesis albums including A Trick of the Tail and you have no Tull either! Wow!
having listened to the theme I was really pleased that The Nice made the list, I saw them many times at the Marquee in Wardour Street and Yes as well who were also highly influential but again aside from Hendrix you have to start with Genesis
but close behind Tull, King Crimson, Floyd
@@pmoran7971 I think the idea is more about the albums that inspired progressive rock and not so much about the bands that are actually prog.
Zappa !!! OH Yeah !!! YES shoulda been on this list somewhere....🌠
For your consideration: An Electric Storm by White Noise (1969). This album was likely the first electro-pop album. Delia Derbyshire and David Vorhaus coming out of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop would, through this album, work to establish the role of the studio as a critical element in the music making process. Forever Changes by Love (1967). Arthur Lee's seminal bridging between psychedelia, folk rock and classical music. Insomuch as psychedelia was the proto-progressive rock, Arthur Lee would explicitly incorporate musical elements and inventions that would go on to be directly associated with progressive rock. Cauldron by Fifty Foot Hose (1968). This band played an important role in introducing electronic experimentations from Europe (specifically from Germany and the U.K) into the psychedelic scene in San Francisco. Though not a commercial success, I'd expect that Cauldron would be found in the record collections of other west coast visionaries such as Zappa, Captain Beefheart, and the Doors.
Soft Machine Volume Two is just simply one of the greatest records ever, but I'd say in terms of building to prog, their debut the year before laid some groundwork, especially with the suite of Hope For Happiness.
Thanks so much for the great introduction to these really important albums! I would like to suggest another name: early Barclay James harvest. They are extremely melodic and beautiful and heavy use of Mellotron. Another group, group 1850, is also a huge band to me.
I would cite Iron Butterfly's In A Gadda Da Vida, as a major building block of prog. (also metal and psychedelic).
A full album side of minor key, organ driven, multi movement, mostly instrumental, pseudo classical rock, that sold like hotcakes.
It no doubt gave musicians permission to break out of the three minute pop mode and explore.
For me , the song that really turned everything on its ear is The Beatles’ “ Tomorrow Never Knows “
Bravo The Nice. They influenced so many on record and live too.
Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is the singularity of progressive rock.
I agree Procol Harum deserves a place here but I think Shine On Brightly was more influential in the development of prog
I was going to put something like that myself. Not least because it contains the 17 minute long epic In Held 'Twas In I which could be one of the earliest discernible pieces that could be called "Prog Rock". I first heard about it on a BBC 4 Prog Rock documentary from 2009.
I would have said the same thing had you not said it. I was also going to comment similarly to Alan White that Shine On Brightly was an even stronger contender. In 1968, In Held 'Twas In I was the very definition of Prog Rock .
Here's another vote for Shine On Brightly - I think it is right up there with Jimi Hendrix Experience's 'Are You Experienced?' and The Moody Blue's 'On The Threshold of A Dream' as an album and band that broke the mold for what rock albums could be.
I agree strongly that Shine On, Brightly is the pivotal point in PH's output. A Whiter Shade of Pales was more popular and that's the criterion Christgau used, as he tends to be a fairly myopic individual. Fairport Convention (I saw them open for Traffic) were at the forefront of long non-blues based improv, which was a foundation of Progressive rock. I think its inclusion is legitimate, as it encouraged Europeans to embrace non-blues based music. The Mothers of Invention through Burnt Weenie Sandwich deserve a great deal of credit for founding prog, as do certain American bands like Spirit, the Doors, SRC, and others, but some people just dogmatically trace prog back to English routes or obvious influences on the Beatles, but the level of experimentation in popular music between 1966 and 1969 was mind boggling.
Hawkwind came late to the game. I would mention Van der Graaf Generator or Gong as earlier foundational bands, too.
Christgau is a schmuck, and he probably only gave the Nice credit because they had a guitarist then.
One thing I should point out is that there was a huge influence of classical music AND free jazz (Albert Ayler on the Beatles, the list of influences on Freak Out, free improvising on Pink Floyd and King Crimson (KC acknowledged listening to John Handy Live at Monterey, a jazz album that would appeal to a lot of rock fans). Because most critics think in boxes, he also ignores some elements of Hendrix, Cream, Love, Grateful Dead, and even the Velvet Underground as influences on Prog before rock degenerated into warring camps of purists with agendas.
Chris Welch made a great point that most English music was progressive up to a point, as was American rock until 1969 when AM programmers changed direction. The success of certain acts like the Who (who were also progressive, IMHO) and blues, r and r, and country roots influenced bands dominated the airwaves hurt experimental and progressive music as early as 1968-1969)
The evolution of the Moog synth, specifically exhibited in the album Switched-On Bach (1968) by Wendy Carlos, has to figure in all those bombastic classical influences in prog. Another album that gets bypassed in this discussion is The Who’s Tommy (1969).
Totally agree on Switched On Bach. When Keith Emerson heard that album he immediately wrote to Robert Moog and asked if he might like to give him one of his synthesizers. The answer was no. Emo bought one instead. Another early pioneering album in synthesized music is Moog: The Electric Eclectics of Dick Hyman.
@@Frank_nwobhm Cans and Brahms by Wakeman via Yes also comes to mind. I’d heard that story about Emerson and Moog. We could also get into discussions about what single instrument most influenced prog… Moog synth hugely influential.
@@ambientideas1 I would have to rate the Mellotron even more so....so suited for Prog!
@@ambientideas1 In as much as the Moog and the Melotron contributed massively to the advancement of prog rock, I'd have to roll with the trusty and reliable Hammond organ being the biggest contributor. It was the true workhorse of all the great keyboardists.
@@mr.bloodvessel260 The mellotron is so important in the development in symphonic prog because you pretty much had a symphony at your finger tips where as the moog was a great NEW lead instrument for the genre as well as providing some interesting low end sounds.
I think the reason Fairport Convention was included in this list is their influence on bands such as Renaissiance, Caravan & Camel for example..I don't disagree with the picks per se but I would have included Jimi Hendrix Experience Electric Ladyland LP 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn To Be) & Moon, Turn The Tides... Gently, Gently Away are some of the tracks I think you can make the
You could argue that they deserve a place on the list. But is a list of the 50 albums that most influenced prog, I'm not sure it should be #9
@@classicalbum Yeah, I can see your point..I don't disagree..I do think it has a place..
If I had to give a defense of this choice it would be, I think, the non-standard time signature of Tam Lin.
@@classicalbum Moon turns the tides/A Merman by JH I played endlessly
never heard anything like it, Hendrix produced and wrote this track himself, it was other worldly!
Kind of agree re Electric ladyland especially those too tracks but not perhaps the album as a whole?
I agree with most of your observations about the original list, except that I do think that _"In the Court of the Crimson King"_ *does* belong on this list of "building blocks" even though it is also a full-fledged prog album. I was around when this was originally released, and I remember that after the first listen I had the thought of "There are a million albums possible now which never would have been made 45 minutes ago". It both introduces and totally-succeeds at some aspects of prog which had not solidified before this album. The fact that it totally succeeds at "being prog" does not take away from the fact that it introduced some of those things. You described it as the flag-in-the-sand for prog. I would also call it the lighthouse to other groups: "You know all those experiments you've been doing? This is the direction to take those experiments. Plenty of room here for everyone to create and explore.".
There are a couple of folk rock albums I would put above Liege and Lief. Founding Fairport vocalist Judy Dyble sang on a beautiful album, Morning Way (1969), under the band name Trader Horne. The folk, jazz, and psychedelic influences are all there. The tracks are joined together with short musical linkers. Basket of Light (1969) is probably the best of Pentangle. The instrumental virtuosity is striking in the folk, jazz, psychedelic and early music influenced sound. The epic track Jack Orion (1970) is also an interesting listen, especially for fans of Gentle Giant.
Great list... but I'd have to make way for The Zombie "Odessey & Oracle" in there somewhere, as well.... though I don't know who'd I boot from your excellent list.
Electric prunes debut album should have been on there as well as Electric prunes mass in f minor, an 1968 full length small orchestra Prog with psychedelia.
Never really occurred to me that “ Freak Out “ would be so influential upon prog but its been a while since I’d listened to that. However I do think “ Days “ from the Moodys should be given a bit more credit in being a major builder especially because of their ambitious work with the London Symphony. After all, classical music
was such a huge influence for so many prog bands that followed.
I would never class Zappa as full-on Prog but he may possibly have been an influence on it.
Freak Out featured a 47 piece orchestra, concept songs, free jazz influences and electronic experimentation and classical influences. It was just as much an influence on Sargent Pepper as Pet Sounds. It's an essential building block of Prog. Everything the Mothers did before KC's debut album was an important influence on Progressive Music. Zappa could rightly claim that virtually all prog through 1975 came directly or indirectly from the Mothers.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Great insight Gary. I'm all about getting to the original roots of all my favorite bands and genres of rock.
Love delving into the trivia.
Yessir! FZ & The MoI! That album turned my whole head around. I was perhaps the only kid in my junior high who was walking the halls singing (to myself), "What would you do if the people you knew...were the plastic that melted and the chromium, too..." Good times!
The opening track whilst to my mind a far cry from Prog or at least what it would become may be my favourite opening track on a debut album EVER. That Rolling Stones-esque guitar riff and the line "Mr. America walk on by..........." possibly the best opening lyrics to a debut album and a killer way to start an over 25 year career.
While you can make a case for Pet Sounds being an influence on Prog (due to the vast musical palette it utilized), I would say that Brian Wilson's/The Beach Boys' lost album "Smile" might have been the actual first Prog record if it had been actually finished and released in 1967.
Your stance on The Court Of The Crimson King makes perfect sense
I think an overlooked album in terms of influencing what would become known as prog rock...is Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by The Small Faces from 1968. That album represents well how psychedelic rock transformed into prog, and is also one of the earliest examples of the concept album, which of course would become very much associated with prog rock later in the 70s.
Interesting, I always thought Christgau hated prog - his website has this to say about in the Court of the Crimson King - "this is ersatz shit. D+", so why would he bother trying to tell us what the building blocks for Progressive Rock are - is it because he has a very over inflated opinion of his importance, which maybe he once had, however as a trend setter and what would now be called influencer he and Lester Bangs to name just two tried very hard to kill off progressive rock - not enough 'authentic blues' I guess - although the Blues came from Jazz as did a lot of prog - melding the heritage and traditions of american jazz and european classical - however I dont think he really understood it, and ok he doesnt have to like it, but just because you dont like or understand it doesnt mean you have to slag it off. Then again a bad review from him could indicate its possbly quite good?
I dont think its surprising that he's gone for some of the classic prog forebears - Beach Boys, Beatles, Moody Blues, Procol Harum - I'd agree its not quite yet there with the last two but they were on their way,
I dont see why Liege and Lief is there and its easy to pick a couple of Psychedelic albums that then transformed into prog - such as the Floyd , who werent yet prog and the Nice, who were nearly there, very much tantalisingly (maggie) on the cusp. I always felt that Psychedelia' seemed to be a worthy and ok or cool thing to like though - how many critics slaver over Piper at the Gates and then decry Atom Heart Mother and so on?
Yes I think the Mothers deserve to be in there, maybe not necessarily at no 1 but certainly an influence.
As for Soft Machine - yes I see that but why not go a step back to the Wilde Flowers from which came both the Softs and Caravan and thereafter the 'Canterbury' scene?
As for builiding blocks I'd also go so far as to stick Deep Puprle mark 1 and Vanilla Fudge in there. And then you could go back to albums by the likes of Frank Sinatra to see the development of the concept album - even though Prog doesnt have to include a 'concept'.
It is indeed an odd choice to pick, of all people, Robert Christgau's viewpoint on progressive rock's top album. As you mentioned, he was known to dislike Prog for sure. The fact that his initial rating of King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" was a D+ pretty much says it all. Oh well, at least he did come around to an extent when gave Crimson's "Red" album an A rating when it was released in 1974.
Deep Purple Mk1 I would count as proto-prog. The Shield and Wring That Neck sounded like ELP before they even formed.
My Oh My. Just to think, giving the (arguably) single most important prog rock album a D+ review, I can't wrap my mind around that. I can understand not liking something, as in it's just not up to his personal taste, or even the genre, but then why even write the review? I assume this is with the passage of time. If it was brand new I could forgive the writer.
Christgau said a lot of bullshit.. but I personally listen to records and if I like them..I like them..critics are a dime a dozen...I'm Motown critic without reserve.stand up for your favorite records!! Great job and analysis..so many changes in the60s caused the prog movement..
Thank you for posting this. Lyric for you: "I could be your Soft Machine, you could be my only, cultivate obscurity, and save your tonsils in a Mason jar...". Always wondered about that...Ass Ponys. Song is "Only".
As a fan of Fairport Convention since How I Spent My Summer Vacation (simply Fairport Convention in the U.S. on A&M) and an equal fan of Prog Rock, I would never even think of them together or call Fairport a Prog pioneer of some sort. I agree that the moody Blues belong as a signpost. They had the ambition to make something unified and consequential and that was enough in 1967.
Have to agree with number 1. Freak Out is absolute wizardry and you can see where Zappa is taking music.
What you're missing about Fairport COnvention is that it wasn't just "folk rock" it was folk rock with some serious jamming -- listen to A Sailor's Life, there's nothing like it from other folk rock acts of the day. And rememeber that their influence obviously reached to Led Zeppelin since they invited singer Sandy Denny to sing with them on Battle of Evermore, and clearly took a lot of influence from them in their folk influences. Still ... not a prog group by any stretch.
I can never forget the first time I heard 'The Mothers' on of all things, Juke Box Jury in around 1966. The panel of four judges all panned them and said they would never make it in the UK and voted it a miss.
in terms of singles chart success The Mothers never had any hits so were quite right....BUT its not that type of music
Always wanted someone to do this. Thanks!
No problem 👍
Great list! Thanks
I can agree with most of these, but the one I feel is really missing is Electric Ladyland, esp the 1983 sequence, the full use of 16 tracks and sheer sonic innovation.
Yes, side 3 is about the trippiest side of psychedelic guitar nirvana as you will ever hear.
Since I've played with Charlie Whitney, can I put forward my nomination of 'additional album that should/could be on this list' to be 'Music In A Dolls House' by Family. (1968)?
Family is a very important group; extremely talented, unusual, fantastic live shows!
I can't argue with this list. I would maybe have added Tago Mago by Can
By 1971, prog already was born and peaked...
I would say Love were one of the building blocks of Prog.
ForeverChanges and Notorious Byrd Brothers.....the Doors🤯
The strong influence of jazz and, in particular, classical on prog is ignored. Many of the prog musicians had basic formal musical training up to the level of playing in youth orchestras and singing in church choirs so the knowledge and experience of serious music was far greater than with the usual pop/blues/rock musician of the time. It's not surprising that they wanted to do rather more than play 12 bar blues.
As I said, it's not my list.
I agree. I'd cite Duke Ellington's Black Brown and Beige as an influence on the Pink Floyd end of prog, and would certainly class it as the first "concept album" , even though he described it as a symphony himself.
Nice to see Zappa getting some credit... finally
How could you not include either The Nice or the first ELP album? Emerson's long complex solos, and his combining of rock and classical styles were completely opposite that of the pop rock of the day. In fact, like Bach's life defining the Baroque era, one could almost use the lifetime of the Nice and ELP as the start and end of the first progressive rock period.
It's not my list.... The Nice are included. And this about the albums that fed feed into or influenced prog, not prog itself
I would pick Zappa’s ‘Absolutely Free’ rather than ‘Freak Out’. Perhaps I would have included Electric Ladyland as Stuart pointed out, and there are many singles by The Move, Terry Jacks, The Small Faces and others that are really important in shaping prog’s emergence from psychedelia. I guess these came from ‘Good Vibrations’ symphonic. Beefheart’s first album has the tempo and key changes we expect to find in prog. Plus, where are ‘The Pretty Things”?
I think The Byrds, in terms of their meandering raga melodies, appear throughout prog. So you can’t ignore the influence of Ravi Shankar and the rising popularity of Indian music in the development of long-form themes and variations. So of course, we have Beethoven in the mix! Plus, how can this list not include Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, James Brown, Sly Stone, Miles’ ‘In a Slilent Way’? These did more to provide templates and ideas than many of the rock and folk albums listed, as important as they are.
The whole point of prog is that it draws from a range of influences, not just previous rock acts. I would have had at least one jazz and one classic album in the list. So I would nominate John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" and Igor Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring" (take your pick of many good recordings) as being particularly influential.
I think you could make an argument either way on most of these albums with the exception of king crimson.
I would throw in love's forever changes and even their earlier album da capo. They experimented with strings, classical arrangements and lengthy jams. Both from 1967.
Jefferson airplanes after bathing at baxters could be considered too.
Forever Changes, absolutely!
Yes, I agree. A hugely influential album. No self-respecting prog rock fan would be without Forever Changes in their collection.
Great video. Stay cool, my friend!
Thanks, you too!
The main criteria for the list seems to be 1969 or earlier so...Iron Butterfly, Cream, Deep Purple, Jimi, Led Zep, The Who, Santana, and I don't know...maybe YES?
Goo callwithThe Nice, I'd have thought 'Ars Longa, Vita Brevis' also deserved a place. BTW I saw The Nice, supported by YES in 1968 0r 9 in London
Agree with most of what you say. I am just wondering how influential Can's first album was on prog musicians? Maybe not much at the time, but looking back it seems significant. I would also be tempted to add Caravan's first album as a signpost to prog.
I'd go with Martin Denny "Quiet Village" from 1959 as well as Kind of Blue from Miles. Albums that completely shit on what was expected at a time when nobody ever strayed. The birth of most modern radio music that is defiant in anyway - 1959 the year of all of that. More good proto music in that year than any other. Even Les Baxter Space Escapades for Googie jet age stuff, or the Forbidden Planet soundtrack from the French electronic duo. Prog was already forming way earlier than anything mentioned in this post.
Interesting list - I would add Ogdens' Nutgone Flake and Tommy to mine
Surprisingly I agree with you on all points. KC's debut has a good claim to be the first fully fledged Prog album so isn't one of the albums that built up to Prog. Hawkwind's first album was released a year later so can't be included. There are plenty of others that could be included, I think psychedelic music as a whole led towards prog.
ELO had some great theme albums which were progressive in how they integrated classical themes in the rock music.
Not a historian of prog, but your analysis makes a lot of sense to me.
Always loved the Moodies, who I would consider prog adjacent.
My first experience of the Moodies was c1970 with To Our Children's Children's Children. As an 11 you or thereabouts, it was a whole new sound world. TOCCC I would suggest is more prog than some of their other albums.
Fairport Convention does seem a tad out of place on this list. Going to have to listen to the album again
Check out my history of prog videos
Love your prog videos mate but you really do need to find the time to listen to Fever Tree's first album, especially for a vid like this one. They're an American band from the mid 60s kinda psychedelia, but more importantly proto-progressive. Their most well-known song "Return of the Native (San Francisco Girls)" is amazing, the guitarist more Fripp than Fripp, all pre-overdrive, effects driven playing. Give it a listen, you won't be disappointed. Cheers!
Soft Machine Vol 2 was incredibly influential. All of the defining characteristics of the Canterbury scene flow from here: witty, literate (tips of the hat to Beckett & Pynchon at a time when most of their contemporaries' reading rarely stretched beyond Tolkien), self-referential lyrics; a mixture of pop melodies and out-there free-improv; virtuosity deployed as a means not an end,; Pythonesque sense of humour (even though it was released a month before Python hit the airwaves!) and a refusal to take itself too seriously.
Without it, no Egg, Hatfield & The North, Henry Cow, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Aksak Maboul etc etc...
I think that Fairport Convention is included because of the heavy leaning towards folk and its elements and introducing them into more complex structures rather than creating a more conventional straightforward folk songs.
This is a good point, there are many ways Prog expressed itself. I think it's a good argumen, if a subjective one!
I'd also add that why I'd include Liege & Lief is that it, in common with most european prog, it didn't rely on the blues, but instead on native european music, either folk, or classical.
I agree. Without Fairport would there have been Jethro Tull?
What about "Topographic Oceans" by Yes, may be a bit late, but definitely a progression of the Prog Rock movement?
I think we're really dealing with building blocks c.66-69
I hoped that Zappa would be on this list and I am happy to see him here. Never expected to see him at number one though. As you may have gathered from previous comments on your videos and other videos too I am a huge fan of FZ and have been for about 30 years now.
Wot! Only 30? I fell in love with FZ’s music at the age of 21 fifty years ago.
@@jonathansturm4163 I was a teenager when I truly started on my Zappadom. I'd heard him on and off your years before that but it was my 16, 17, 18 year old self that really got him. I've loved him ever since.
One album in 1969, no live performances. One of the first and an influence to the Prog that followed:
"Touch" - led by Don Galluci, the keyboardist for the Kingsmen on "Louie Louie".
Finally, a Chanel/reviewer/musicologist who doesn't automatically dismiss progressive rock out of hand as some sort of intellectual wa*king!
I've always loved prog. rock, in fact, I think I loved it long before the term was regularly used.
I'm really not familiar enough with the early days, but I think that you're right on most counts.
I'll no doubt be posting on various subjects as I have now subscribed.
Welcome aboard.
I agree strongly that Shine On, Brightly is the pivotal point in PH's output. A Whiter Shade of Pales was more popular and that's the criterion Christgau used, as he tends to be a fairly myopic individual. Fairport Convention (I saw them open for Traffic) were at the forefront of long non-blues based improv, which was a foundation of Progressive rock. I think its inclusion is legitimate, as it encouraged Europeans to embrace non-blues based music. The Mothers of Invention through Burnt Weenie Sandwich deserve a great deal of credit for founding prog, as do certain American bands like Spirit, the Doors, SRC, and others, but some people just dogmatically trace prog back to English routes or obvious influences on the Beatles, but the level of experimentation in popular music between 1966 and 1969 was mind boggling.
Hawkwind came late to the game. I would mention Van der Graaf Generator or Gong as earlier foundational bands, too.
Christgau is a schmuck, and he probably only gave the Nice credit because they had a guitarist then.
One thing I should point out is that there was a huge influence of classical music AND free jazz (Albert Ayler on the Beatles, the list of influences on Freak Out, free improvising on Pink Floyd and King Crimson (KC acknowledged listening to John Handy Live at Monterey, a jazz album that would appeal to a lot of rock fans). Because most critics think in boxes, he also ignores some elements of Hendrix, Cream, Love, Grateful Dead, and even the Velvet Underground as influences on Prog before rock degenerated into warring camps of purists with agendas.
Chris Welch made a great point that most English music was progressive up to a point, as was American rock until 1969 when AM programmers changed direction. The success of certain acts like the Who (who were also progressive, IMHO) and blues, r and r, and country roots influenced bands dominated the airwaves hurt experimental and progressive music as early as 1968-1969)
Pet Sounds, absolutely. The first prog album is the revolutionary art pop concept album Eli and the Thirteenth Confession (March 1968) by the New York teenage genius Laura Nyro. The album " blew everybody's mind " Todd Rundgren. Highly complex innovative songs eschewing traditional form with layered arrangements using flutes, string harp and timpani as well as expected instruments played by an army of jazz greats. Sex a major theme. Way ahead ot the game. Nyro "probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John (2007). Always rated 5 stars.
Although there's not an album, I would say the works of Stockhausen from the early 50s are very important.
Prog consensus or Prognosis?
Instead of Fairport Convention, I rather would have added The Incredible String Band.
You should do a video on Parliament/Funkadelic - one the of the greatest and most ignored bands who have quite a few prog elements. They are still going and rarely get a mention which is a real travesty.
I guess Clinton is very progressive but his musical/intelectual building blocks is more where Sly/Jimi took the JamesBrown elements through Beethoven/Stockhausen. As JamesBlood Ulmer sings...Jazz is the teacher, Funk is the preacher!
@@jasfan8247 Parliament have a lot of folk influence too. For example working with Ruth copeland who wrote songs with them and had them play on her records. They used bagpipes, harpsichord and harp. Sly and Jimi never went down that road. Yes they also have a big classical influence too. I do class them as a funk band but they were not always. People dismiss them because they dont realy know their music thoroughly. Their lyrics incorporate fantasy, phychedelic ideas too. Not to mention politics and more funk associated themes. When I saw them live they had 10 minute cello solos and did country and western songs for an hour. They realy do deserve more recognition IMO
@@Captain_Rhodes certainly, and they have a big name for inventing the P-Funk but this progrock scene is mostly Eurosensitive.(they also don't mention The Residents) Funky story, once about '68 they played on VanillaFudge equipment and that sound made Clinton realise the possibilities. They did shows with Stooges, MC5 also in 69.
@@jasfan8247 yea i think a lot of people are missing out on what they realy do because of the P funk hits
with simon house hawkwind became prog, but that was a little late to be included as a building block (hotmg '74)
I don't much agree. Some of those albums added studio experimentation but I would be looking for longer form tracks drawing on folk and classical music with something original around keys and timings. So no, not Moody Blues or Beach Boys who made songs which were pleasant and unchallenging much like Alan Parsons in the 70s or Asia in the 80s.
I go along with The Nice and Crimson. And Floyd and Soft Machine. I would expect to see Jethro Tull in there. Living in the Past perhaps. Maybe Traffic?
I don't usually think of US influences as UK prog is pretty unique. Zappa was doing similar stuff though.
I am a huge Hawkwind fan but they are not prog pioneers. Theirs was a stripped down trippy sound that owes a lot to Pink Floyd (Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun) and Black Sabbath (Iron Man sounds like a Hawkwind song).
Hard to see how Genesis and Yes got their influences.
Yes to Days of Future Passed; Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band; The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack . Not sure about the rest (No to Pet Sounds and Liege and Leif though I have both albums). I guess were saying that the building blocks of prog. are being laid in 1967/1968?
Pleased to see that the first album mentioned was Soft Machine's second release; great choice!
I'm kinda surprised that the Grateful Dead's "Anthem of the Sun" didn't make this list- maybe it's in Christgau's.
Great choice
People will argue about this stuff for ages, what should be in, what should be out etc. A lot of American music was pretty formulaic, and I think only the Electric Prunes and the Mothers (maybe Moby Grape?) fit in the kind of 'way out' or 'what the hell was that' category that changes your life - the hallmark of a good prog band. I would say The Pretty Things 'S.F.Sorrow' should definitely be in the list somewhere. Glad that Nice made it to the list, always entertaining when I saw them. Other mentions should be made including Family, Barclay James Harvest and I am worried that the Crazy World of Arthur Brown are not on the list, because this was truly crazy. Skid Row definitely shook it up late 60's effortlessly creating and deserve a mention. Graeme Bond was also an extreme influence on the development of music in the 60s.
For me, I think prog was almost dead by 1973/74. When I listened to Weather Report, Crossings and Live-Evil, I moved on.
I'll just add, with a thanks to the people that liked my original comment.... If you want a definition of Prog Rock in 2022, stay on UA-cam and find the live vision of Robert Plant and Alison Krauss playing 'When the levee breaks' - this is Prog 2022, utterly mindblowing.
While Sgt. Pepper might have perfected the album form, its songs (except for the last one) were mostly traditional in nature. The Beatles have to be on this list, but it is *Revolver* that was the Beatles' most daring album, and the one that most influenced what was to become Progressive Rock.
Agree.👍
I absolutely love your posts. Your energy, vibrance, and ability to create dreamscape from an album I had hitherto not seen. Piper At The Gates Of Dawn I do believe inspired much of the British Prog scene. Just an aside point, I find it risible that Steven Wilson claims to not like Genesis, or Floyd. I must be hearing their nuances in my own mind when I listen to him play. Distancing yourself from yourself is an obscure but common trait of musicians
Thank you. The next few posts will be moving away from prog to explore my love of psychedelia.
"The Thoughts of Emerlist Davejack" is the prog's building block.
I know it wouldn’t technically qualify, but “the SMiLE Sessions” (beach boys) - great players, innovative structures, ambitious lyrics.
Hmmm, I guess everyone has their own experience. For me, it started with #1: Sgt Pepper. #2: Then Disraeli Gears, which isn't really prog but the beginning of virtuoso musicianship in a rock band. #3: Zappa's Hot Rats. #4: Blood Sweat and Tears mixing bop and pop. #5: Axis Bold as Love #6: In the Court of the Crimson King. Of course. #7 The YES Album. #8: E.L.P. #9: Gentle Giant Octopus #10: Mahavishnu Orchestra.
In Summer '67 also Vanilla Fudge came out! Their long winding version of 'Hangin on' inspired a lot of good players. Is Mountain's Nantucket Sleighride progrock?
For me, Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor forms one of the origins of Prog
As performed by ELP?
@@tonyoliver2750 My memory is getting dim. I recall the Nice doing the Bandenburg Concherto, can't recall ELP doing Bach's Tocatta. Ginistera's Tocatta in Brain Salad Surgery, maybe?
@@alanhynd7886 Well I'm 68 so perhaps it's my memory that's malfunctioning. Perhaps I'm confusing it with Carl Palmer's ELP. ua-cam.com/video/62P1N37TQ3w/v-deo.html
What' s about Arzachel, Rare Bird, Spooky Tooth, T2, and May Blitz?
Gentle Giant debut lp should be considered on that list too .....
I don't consider the Moody Blues as a prog band, especially in their classic period (first 7 albums). Certainly they were influential, and a lot of us lovers of prog really like them; but I would argue that they're better described as psychedelic, or perhaps as proto prog, given the milieu in which they lived.I find it fascinating that psychedelic music spawned two great rock genres: prog, and heavy metal. Prog took the folk/jazz/classical aspect of psychedelia, while metal ran with the blues aspect. (This is , of course, an over simplification). Anyway, thanks for a thought provoking video!
I agree. do check out my history of prog videos, I think you would enjoy them
I have to disagree with you there, I regard the seven The Moody Blues albums from Days of Future passed to Seventh Sojourn as prog. But do we have an agreed definition of prog?
@@tonyoliver2750 I think your view is perfectly reasonable, and clearly a strong case can be made for it. Certainly what is or is not Prog is open to debate, as with any genre. Ultimately, I think that genre definitions cannot be rigid, and that overlaps in genres are unavoidable. The Moody's influence on the development of prog is undeniable, and they were masters in their use of the mellotron (which is one of my proofs for the existence of a loving God 🙂). And I must admit that when I think of prog rock, the Moody Blues usually make an appearance in my consciousness!
What about Spirit’s Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus? You should review it regardless. 😀
I agree that should be on a review and I hope it will be one day. I just love that album and have been listening to some tracks from it on UA-cam over the last couple of weeks.
Re: Fairport Convention , maybe it's listed because so many of the major proggers cite it. I've heard many of them do so in various interviews here and there.
The bands the presenter mentioned as precursors didn't include a band of equals. the drumming is prog drumming, by any measure.
Notorious Byrd Brothers comes immediately to mind.
The moody blues were 'progressive' in the truest sense, especially from 1967-72, I feel the word PROG as its interpreted today, is slightly different to the progressive of late 60s to early to middle 70s,in that sense, even though I feel the moodies were indeed forefathers or one of the very first to bring us "symphonic rock" so, what I'm saying is this😂, the moody blues were progressive and "Prog" from that period mentioned"nights in white satin" "have you heard part 1(the voyage)" have you heard"part 2 " and all of " Our children's children's children" emphatically prove, they ceased being prog from the start of the 80s, though "the voice" from "long distance voyager" was prog pop/rock, though they probably stopped being prog with 78's " octave" album, though "steppin' in a slide zone" was prog lite!
I agree. Though I loved some of the songs on Octave it was obvious that their time as a prog. band had come to an end.
@@tonyoliver2750 absolutely, it was always going to be that way after Mike pinder left the band, but we always have the so called "core 7" to remind us how amazing they were😊👌
I would add Monument by Hansson & Karlsson from 1967! Possibly the first prog album!
It might have been worth putting a link in to the original article that you have created this video from .
I'll try to find it
'Crazy World of Arthur Brown' and Alice Cooper's 'Pretties for You' belong on this list.. IMO.. maybe
And the crazy world of Alan Bown....
Thanks for putting Zappa at number one, he is a musical genius! I was at the Hendrix/Soft Machine concert in Hartford CT after Electric Ladyland was released in '69. Soft Machine didn't make an impact and was a bad choice for an opening act for Hendrix IMO. I liked your choices for prog rock influences & maybe would have included Vanilla Fudge & Blood, Sweat & Tears 1st album. When I 1st heard Sgt. Peppers I had a feeling this was a game changing album which would have a major impact on future albums because nothing any band did prior could compare.
Vanilla Fudge is a good choice. I know one reason SM opened for Hendrix was because Hendrix really liked them. Jimi also liked the Nice and King Crimson, as well.
I would think Hawkwind should be given consideration.
If I remember.. "Fairprt Convention" has some lineage with "Jethro Tull" I think as well as "Led Zeppelin"..?
The Beatles' 'Revolver' and single 'Penny Lane'/'Strawberry Fields' (was to have been on 'Sgt. Pepper's') as well as the Beach Boys' 'Good Vibrations' and 'Heroes and Villains' certainly signalled the 'progressive' direction of pop, though mellotron use aside (by the Beatles) didn't leave much of an enduring sonic imprint.
IMO, the band that suggested the concept, instrumentation, and sonic structure of Prog as we know it today was Vanilla Fudge. Their 1967 self-titled debut album, with its fiercely competent rhythm section of Carmine Appice and Tim Bogert, distortion-driven guitar by Vince Martell, and soaring Hammond and vocals from Mark Stein were the template. Indeed, the appearance of the Fudge in London attracted the major local musos and elicited a WTF response similar to that of Hendrix's earliest appearances in the city. Their omission (and by extension early Deep Purple, who claimed to want to be the 'European version' of the Fudge) makes this list untenable IMO.
Also, Scottish trio 1-2-3 (keys/drums/bass; later renamed Clouds), via their residency at the Marquee attracted the attention of fellow Scot Ian Anderson, Robert Fripp, Keith Emerson, and Jon Anderson. It seems Emerson got the idea of standing at the keys from Clouds, and Anderson took their idea for Simon & Garfunkel's 'America' to Yes. The drummer, Harry Hughes, was, like Carl Palmer (then with Chris Farlowe's Thunderbirds) from the Buddy Rich school of proficient jazz chops and like Appice instilled the idea that prog players were proficient players. Jethro Tull drummer Doane Perry is a massive fan of Hughes and Clouds, something that likely happened via his former boss Anderson, who knew the lads prior to forming Tull.
I'm no fan of Christgau - he seemed to take the first part of his name too seriously - but the Moody Blues did suggest progression from pop. As did Procol Harum, though the debut album, musically, is more blues inspired (the band was largely Southend r&b band the Paramounts) than is typically conceded. Subsequent albums were more daring (i.e., progressive), with prog rockers covers of the likes of 'In Held T'was I' a reminder of their enduring inspiration.
One is tempted to add the Crazy World of Arthur Brown, another keys/bass/drums lineup, though with only one very exciting and highly dynamic album (Carl Palmer joined after its release; Colosseum drummer Jon Hiseman and Soft Machine's John Marshall also recorded tracks with the band, with the latter on two of the album's cuts) that band didn't have the opportunity to realise its potential. Palmer and organist/composer Vincent Crane went on to form Atomic Rooster.
It is easy to understand why 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is considered the defining album for prog rock: It was arguably the first to incorporate all those things that ultimately suggested/defined prog beginnings - classically informed keys, wicked rhythm section, dynamic vocals, liberal use of time signatures, and no fear of extending songs beyond the 2-minute-and-thirty-eight seconds timeline. From the cover art to the extreme dynamics to the contrasting sonics that album screamed 'This is something no-one else has done'. It also picked up on Vanilla Fudge's template - as did Yes, a pop band that got rockier with each of its earliest albums.
Also worthy of mention are the Yardbirds and the Move. The former, once Jeff Beck was onboard, were certainly adventurous and daring on singles ('Over Under Sideways Down', 'Shapes of Things', 'Happenings 10 Years Time Ago') and the 'Yardbirds' album (aka 'Roger the Engineer') though their influence is more noticeable in other rock forms including garage rock, psych, punk, blues and even fusion (largely due to Beck's adventurous guitar works). Roy Wood's vision for the Move became increasingly progressive with the addition of Jeff Lynne to the band. Still, the early singles and eponymous debut album were as progressive as any. But by the time of 'Message From the Country' (which saw the band evolve into ELO), progressive was surely a well-warranted description.
In summation - the Beatles and Vanilla Fudge get my vote for initiating Prog. 1-2-3 should be noted for defining the genre aesthetic. King Crimson for defining it to the masses. And Yes for popularising it beyond just the eclectic boffins who wallow in such narratives as the one at play with Christgau's dubious list.
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue, Bitches Brew
Coltrane - Giant Steps
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Beatles - Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White, Abbey Road
Stones - Satanic
Kinks - Village Green, Arthur
Who - Tommy
Pretty Things - SF Sorrow
Zappa - Freak Out
Nice - Ars vita, Emerlist
VdGG - Aerosol Grey Machine
Soft Machine - Volume 2
Jethro Tull - Stand Up
Led Zeppelin - 1
Caravan - Caravan
Amon Duul - Phallus Dei
Terry Riley - Rainbow in Curved Air
Aphrodite's Child - End Of the World
Hendrix - Electric Ladyland
25 albums - but I'm still missing some - side note - I really don't think Pet Sounds should be considered a prog rock building block album but because so many have said so - that probably influenced me to include it on this list. If I were to swap it out I'd replace it with The Moody Blues - On the Threshold of a Dream. I do think that is more of a prog building block album than the earlier Moody Blues albums based on the prog like ending 4 songs (Have You Heard medley) - which sums up the album in prog like fashion.
Freak Out- for sure!
How come I love all these albums but have little time for much prog rock recorded after 1972?
You got grown up and unflexible in 1972 maybe? Chasing the kids from the lawn yet?😖 Such an analysis and i don't even know you.
@@thevoid6818 Life's too short.
i have heard the band Little Feet mentioned as a gateway to prog.
And an early Deep Purple album that used an Orchestra!
Jon Lord would have been a prog king if the rest of the band weren't so rock and roll. Child in Time is very proggy and there was the Concerto for Group and Orchestra.
That twee English proto prog is properly called Hobbit Rock.
Rondo by The Nice is certainly proto-prog.
Pretty sure heard either Rutherford or Banks say that Genesis' sound the acoustic 12 string guitars were inspired by Fotheringay by Sandy Denny from "What we did on our holidays" by Fairport Convention the keyboards from "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harum... please correct me if I am wrong - we love Gabriel era Genesis-do we not?