Why the F-35 needs an engine upgrade
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- With the advent of the Block 4 upgrades, the F-35 needs more cooling capacity from its engine. See how Pratt & Whitney is offering Engine Core Upgrades or ECU and how General Electric wants its Adaptive XA100 Engine to be considered.
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Credits/Attributions:
"The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
Department of Defense
Boeing
Raytheon
Pratt & Whitney
General Electric
#F35 #ECU #Upgrade
Maintaining two different engines isnt exactly a logistical nightmare. Heck they've been using a mix of ge and pw engines on the 4th gen fighters for decades
Ironically...it's the B lift fan configuration that actually can be retrofitted for these demands.
Yeah the computer interface alone would be a programming nightmare.
Right but you have double the work, double the chances for something to break, double the time for maintaining them, and double the cost to produce them. I mean fighters these days are pretty much to the point where the pilots body is the limiting factor. So the cost vs reward ratio just isn’t there. And the point you made about about using jet engines for decades is actually a benefit to having one engine as well. They have become extremely reliable and powerful. I mean it would be sick if they slapped in 2 F22 engines in the F35A&C or if they slapped two F35 engines in the F-22 with thrust vectoring. Talking another 16,000 pounds of thrust with full afterburner. Talking a 1.5 thrust to weight ratio lol. But yeah to maintain the same size you wouldn’t get much more power with 2 engines over one big engine. And instead of spending let’s say 8hrs an engine for 2 engines you can spend 12 on 1 and make sure it’s running perfect and still save 4 man hours.
Correct
@@forfun6273Uhh, dude, it’s the same engine in the F-22 and F-35. F119. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
I’m an employee of GE Aerospace here in Cincinnati, and I personally worked on the prototype of the AETP engine. The benefits it offers are second to none! Not just with cooling, but thrust, efficiency, acceleration…it’s a beast! Let’s hope our “powers that be” make the right decision!
Another great video!
Look back at the C-130-J campaign. Can you imagine the C-130 without those improvements?
I agree. We should begin a refurbishment program on US existing F-35’s and offer them for sale to nations who qualify at a significant savings. Then replace all the US F-35’s with the GE engined F-35. Germany doesn’t need the range the US needs in the Pacific. I’d make a deal to Norway, Finland, Belgium, UK and Poland that would upgrade the systems on their current F-35’s and any used F-35’s they purchase to block 4 software and bring the older F-35’s up to the most recent release.
These discounted sales would boost the alliance and allow the US to improve its F-35 fleet. I’d go with GE engines, a slightly longer F-35 making room for longer range missiles and if add a new F-35 with two man crew. The two man crew would be hugely beneficial for ECM/EW and controlling large numbers of unmanned assets.
If we made it a priority we could start production on these new improved F-35’s in a couple of years.
This would complement the NGEN fighters that will arrive about the same time.
Add those improvements to the adaptive cycle and the NGAD will be 10x better
You are totally on-point. I only want everyone to see the difference between the original B-52 engine and the current one.
@@unclefart5527 EXACTLY.
Adaptive cycle or dual detonation? Regarding heat, the F135 isn't the only issue. The Radar Absorbent Material has to be upgraded to ceramic RAM to stop it from blistering.
Agreed, this has been mentioned somewhere else (don't quite remember but it might've been Tog himself) but research has been underway for some time on ceramic coatings. I wonder about the weight a bit but it should see the heating issue completely gone; in any case it only happened once in testing for some unknown reason
There’s the slight issue that if you run out of fuel the plane’s computers will fry themselves
@@asherwiggin6456 The plane will automatically shut off unnecessary systems in event of an emergency like running out of fuel, and in either case at that point you have bigger problems to worry about...like gliding safely to land
@@forzaelite1248 won’t it still fry the flight control systems so that you can’t control the plane?
@@asherwiggin6456 No, the flight controls are electrically actuated and air cooled since they don't generate enough heat to warrant liquid cooling; they'll work even if the engine cuts out. You'll never really hear of the controls in other fighters frying for any reason either because of this. The other systems onboard like the radar and the IR systems are what require cooling since they're always on
Sooo… the AETP is Pratt & Whitney’s version of VTEC. I wonder what the AETP crossover sounds like… BWAAAH!
I wonder where the cams are on the jet?
@@Harley-D-Mcdonald in the head, obviously! I bet it comes with adjustable cam-gears straight from the factory.
That’s a great analogy.
“My AETP goes BWAAAAH” lmao
@@joshy9464 LOL!!
What I’ve seen elsewhere is speculation that the NGAP money going to Lockheed, Boeing, and Grumman isn’t to design an engine but to figure out how to implement the PW and GE engines into their NGAD prototypes.
That's probably just slush money. You give engine upgrade funds to PW, GE, Rolls, etc, not the Airframe Manufacturers.
Yeah I mean the F35 engine is sick. It’s slightly larger than the F22 engine. But doesn’t have thrust vectoring. So you can imagine that they could easily modify the F35 engine to have thrust vectoring and slap 2 of them in a new fighter. You’re talking about 100,000lbs of thrust. With lighter carbon fiber materials smaller aim120s and just overall smaller and lighter electronics and all. You figure the new fighter the jet will damn near have a 2-1 thrust weight ratio armed. The F-22 is 65,000lbs loaded. We’ll see. But I think it’ll depend how which jet it is. The Air Force I imagine is going to make more of an Air space denial jet. That can loiter for long periods of time and has such good sensors and weapons that anything within a couple hundred miles of it will be blown out the sky. Where I’d imagine the navy would have more of an interceptor and agile plane to fend off missile and J-20 attacks on the carrier fleet and then have drone wingmen to carry out strike missions on ground targets. But yeah. China and Russia still haven’t fully developed the engines that were supposed to go into the J-20 and SU57. So we’re pretty far ahead of them on building engines. Japan wanted to build a stealth fighter for awhile now but they were smart and understood that the engine is essential to the stealth capabilities of the aircraft. So they’ve been working on their engine for awhile now. Haven’t heard anything recently though.
OK but let that tech flow down to the F-35 and possibly other planes as well.
@@forfun6273 Your ignorance is going to be your death forfun!
not sure why he is using Australia MQ28A Ghost Bat drone in NGAD and saying the engine could go in to them.
is 100% up to Australia is those drones get them as is Australian drone solely made and sold in Australia as a sovereign product.
As a former PW engineer (now at Lockheed) who’s worked closely with F135 and XA101, it is my personal opinion (not speaking on behalf of either company) that F135 ECU is the most cost effective option to meet the need for expanded PTMS capability. Bringing in an adaptive engine is just way too expensive and time consuming - just think of all the airframe redesign work (to accommodate the bigger and heavier engine) to actually testing and verifying the engine itself. Definitely not a trivial change.
On adaptive engines - just think about it; you’re talking about a third stream of air. This means the fan stream needs to be split, requiring a separate duct - while this looks trivial in a cross section, it is actually quite a lot of metal added (especially considering the radius at which this structure is being introduced), increasing the size and weight of the engine. Whatever benefit this architecture has in thrust and SFC, you have to weigh it against the cost of R&D in the engine and airframe, as well as maintenance. So in the end, while you might get better absolute specs out of an adaptive engine, it is likely is not the most cost effective way to improve the platform.
However, especially naval variant (C) could benefit from GE engine. Range is being constant issue with carrier based aircraft.
I vehemently disagree.
We have had adaptive cycle technology since the ATF program with the GE YF120, which was also turned down if favor of the technologically inferior PW YF119, which the F135 is derived from.
The F-35 is going to be our staple fighter for the better part of the century, and we cant keep chasing menial upgrades from an obsolete engine. The F135 ECU is insufficient even now.
Additionally, the PW XA101 is untested. I dont even think PW is driven enough to do it.
The XA100 on the other, is tested, and ready for service, and I believe it will replace the F135. The additional cost is worth it.
It's long time to drop PW from the F-35 program.
Which is why DD would need to operate centrifugally, not linearly. But I suppose that would make it difficult to sustain the unit for very long.
@@TylerF35A
Those are some bold claims. Having personally supported XA101 testing, I respectfully disagree. The team I worked with had some of the most exceptional and world class engineers.
@@Y13A what about the GE engine? their promo material states that's almost ready for production, is that too optimistic?
i enjoyed this in a peculiar since... I think many folks, myself included. Often don't think about "conservation of energy". Electrons gotta come from somewhere, they're not free. Just like a car... the more frills, the greater the need for horsepower to maintain a given performance profile. Aircraft are no different. TANSTAFL...There Ain't No Such Thing As a Free Lunch. Angry pixies (electrons) have a cost. In the case of the F-35, lowest bidder on the engine...played to the spec, not to the future. Now we all pay $$$ Grrrr
One thing to note. The emphasis on stealth with the f35. It may be stealth in the electromagnetic spectrum. But with such a hot engine. They are NOT stealthy in the IR spectrum.
Which means they're not stealth on a modern battlefield.
You mean the radar and microwave spectrum instead of electromagnetic spectrum since Infrared is an electromagnetic wave also. Look up electromagnetic spectrum. Also a good IRST system can see the entire aircraft and not just the engine.
Thank you for such a simple explanation, that even a kid can understand. teaching/explaining is an art for which many intelligent people struggle.
Your an excellent teacher pilot photo g
Thanks for fair reporting, no one in mainstream covers this when hammering on the F-35/F135. @3:23
Main stream is a propaganda machine. Don't believe a word they say now.
it's technically sensitive info..soooo...nobody spoda know
You've touched on a subject matter that, quite frankly, I've never even considered until watching this video. However, it is clear that the use of so much electronics coupled with reliable engines cannot be overstated. Which begs the question... why would these new Block 4 and 5 programs even be considered w/o first deciding on either the GE or PW engines to use? This seems like a "putting the cart before the horse" scenario. What am I missing?
Probably to avoid program delays and keep the development of technology moving. Worst case scenario they fit the new hardware and limit the software to the cooling requirements until more cooling is available, but better to have it in there and waiting for the green light update. There is also that these engines may also be used on NGAD which is still in development so they'll need extra time as well.
True, but probably you can bet that software will create most of the delays in the end.
You are missing the politics behind F35 acquisition decisions
As always a nice experience enjoying your videos. Keep on it! Thumbs up for your work and information! Greetings from AT
Thank you! And apologies where is AT?
@@PilotPhotog Austria 😁
Great Video !!
Hello @pilotphotog, just a quick feedback on the video: the content itself is precise and interesting, great job on this, subscribed! the only thing I would suggest is changing the background music at the middle of the video because the loop is too short for the full length I think. Keep up the good work!
not really precise as he uses Australia MQ28 Ghost Bat in the NGAD programme to get these new engines.
Actually is up to Australia and Australia only if anything changes on our drone.
Even the secret detachable nose design will only ever be done in Australia keeping the tech sovereign .
All said by RAAF Commander head of the programme.
Like always, excellent video. Thank you!
Nice job on this! Fist time to your channel and I enjoyed this - so I liked, subscribed and commenting. Now you know!
Welcome aboard, and thank you for subscribing and commenting - glad to have you here - now you know!
Quick question ~ what is an 'Adaptive Engine?'
High efficiency engines, like on airliners, have a high bypass ration. 7 or 8x as much air goes through the 1st stage compressors, as goes through the main engine. But a high performance military engine, is a low bypass ratio engine. This gives less weight and more after burner capacity, but it does limit efficiency in normal use. What if you could adapt the bypass ratio while the engine was running? What if you could significantly change the ratio of air that goes through the main core and air that doesn't?
That's what an Adaptive engine is.
The clever parts for vertical takeoff & landing in the B model, those are at the front of the engine, including a power take off and a big horizontal fan. Having additional clever ducting at the front of the engine to allow more or less air through the main body ~ let's just say I can see how that might complicate and compromise the design. I'm not sure it's impossible, but it's sure as hell awkward.
He's referring to "Adaptive Cycle Engines"
You have doors which shunts air to the turbo fan just like on an airliner instead of ramming it through the engine core. This gives superior sub sonic range at cruise and your supersonic performance.
I wonder, if they could just use heat exchangers to transfer heat to kerosene before it gets into the combustion chamber? At high altitudes it should be quite cold
On a side note - The stealth coating Lockheed use is a bit fragile and can only withstand mach 1.2 or 1.3 for really short bursts. If pilots were to completely floor it and fly the F-35 at its maximum speed for extended periods, the stealth coating is going to burn off in the atmosphere.
Unless a more durable coating is discovered/created. having a higher top speed means very little unless you are willing to sacrifice your stealth to achieve it. A more powerful engine can help the plane when it comes to handling though.
I think NGAD will have new materials that will allow it substation very high speeds. I wonder if it is possible to ever but those coatings on future f35s, or if that’s too much of a change
Sustain*
honestly, RAM coatings should just be optional for specific missions, most missions dont really need stealth unless it's a REALLY high value target they're destroying
For reasons that should be obvious I can’t say much but I can tell you this is false. If you were speaking of the F-22 you’d be pretty close but the F-35 coating is a whole new animal.
@@ryankubinski8789 NGAD is only a pipe dream now, and if war was today, NGAD is irrelevant.
if the F35 is stuck at the block 3 version for the Marine Core It would fall right in line with the narrative of the USMC getting the leftover equipment and not the latest and the greatest but still kicking everyone's ass anyways.
Marines will never be limited by our Equipment; the single Marine has always been our GREATEST Weapon.
@@devobronc My penis is the GREATEST Weapon. No equipment needed.
right 😅😂
The never ending story ...
Upgrades and technical development never stops.
So, I work for Lockheed on the F35. I feel the need to clarify some points.
The cooling issues do not happen in flight. The air is cool up there. The "overheating" happens on the ground. There are cooling issues while they sit at idle. Military runs the IPP for ground maintenance instead of using ground power and cooling equipment. Electronics get hot but rarely overheat. Unless they are in high temp environments like the desert. Pratt is working the issue for better cooling.
G.E. does not have engines on, in, or for F35. Because of several catastrophic fuel line issues on Pratt engines, discussions from management at LM have begun to 'maybe' use GE engines.
1:59 I thought the IPP aboard the F-35 filled the role of bleed air in this circumstance. That scoop above the right-side intake isn't just there for looks (or to be mistaken for a gun).
I'm thinking as a work-around until a permanent solution is found, we could have them fly in pairs, intermittently shutting off systems sequentially. That way you'd only be using them half as much.
Since they already share info via MADL datalink, you wouldn't lose situational awareness.
Budget allowing, If they add fresh double sided sticky tape before each flight to the upper surfaces this idea has merit.
ah, kinda like the buddy tanking F/A-18s. They didn't build them with enough range, so you have one fly as a gas can for the other so it can get to where it needs to go. As a bonus, you get additional flight hours on an airframe with no additional benefit towards completing the mission and your availability rate falls to below 50%.
W O W ......... All these acronyms!! PTMS, NGAD, EPACS, XA100, ECU, AETP, NASA, even the word NAVY ( Never Again Volunteer Yourself ).
BUT Seriously........ Super Work 'Tog', Your research work has ALWAYS been "Top Peg"!!
Hope you had a Safe & Happy 4th!!!
Thank you and thanks for being a channel member, my 4th was great, here's hoping that yours was too - know you know!
What are the cool green rectangular lights for? Formation?
The F35 "Mayday" - the most lucrative Arms contract in history
F-35 is just a plane version of Ka-52
"Open the door, Hal," "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave."
How about we put the ECU upgraded P&W XA101 in the F-35B and the GE XA101 in the F-35 A & C? Should have went with GE to begin with.
But I thought the DOD already decided on this several months ago. They decided to go the cheaper route with the P&W XA101 and use the money saved for the GE XA100 in the NGAD.
Just come out with the NGAD already. I feel like I've been waiting forever. I just want to see it fly once! We need the NGAD & the Adaptive Cycle Engines within the next 4 or so years as a conflict with China seems inevitable
Second that. Not much commonality anyway. TBH I'd dump A altogether and have AF fly stripped down C airframe.
isnt there already plans for it? i heard its getting the same engine as NGAD when its operational.
02:36 | Video producer, what is the difference between computing power and processing power?
Nice video ❤️😍😍
Great editing!
@@PilotPhotog thank you.😍
Cool!
Awesome
C - engine might be huge / semi- hi bypass ! I say … F- 15 eagle to the rescue ! No kidding .
The F35 has always a heating a problem. Amazed it's taken so long to fix the problem.
Caching $$$ Caching $$$ the bottomless pit.
This would be what.... the third or fourth engine replacement its needed since start of development?
I can’t wait for the PMS package upgrade
No, a nightmare would be 4 engines
The vendor competition will be good as it will help keep costs down and bring more ideas to the table.
Just a reminder --- Every fighter goes through engine upgrades. By example, the F15 was introduced with P&W engines. Once they matured, they let the F16 depend on a single one of them. Then GE won a competition to supply engines for the fleets.
We can only hope that the U.K. Japan, and Italy get naval, and airforce variants of the Tempest up running before the f-35b becomes obsolete.
Another reason to stick with PW engines is proven service and reliability. Putting an entirely new kind of engine and supply chain in a single engine plane that forms the basis of American and NATO airpower for the next 50 years may be too risky and could interrupt supply run rate.
But 50 years is a long time. We can revisit the adaptive engine for the F35 after it proves itself in the next 10-20 years.
As a Canadian, I know all too well what might happen to our procurement of F35s if there is appears an engine trouble headline in the news associated with the upcoming Block 4. We are cheap, with shortsighted politicians, and we got a lot of land in the north with no runways for a plane undergoing engine troubles. Get me some proven reliable F35s, we can upgrade later.
It’ll satisfy future energy and cooling needs, that’ll do for now. There is already enough game changing stuff going into the Block 4. Baby steps people.
Just a reminder --- Every fighter goes through engine upgrades. By example, the F15 was introduced with P&W engines. Once they matured, they let the F16 depend on a single one of them. Then GE won a competition to supply engines for the fleets. And it saved the USAF a lot of $$$$$$.
You need to get smart and join Australia as a small population with lower economy we developed MQ28 Ghost Bat to maximise our forces and have a cheap drone if need to use them as 1 way suicide bombers or take the hits while our crewed platforms escape or finish their mission.
Got AI drone subs now also. ex patrol boat going AI to test surface vessel.
Fighters unlike your mobile don't want their air frame getting hotter dude that's just gold for IRS missiles.
Also F-35 can't go 20% for any length of time due to the epoxy RAM coating melting
So..... NO supercruise???
Or when it does, bits of aircraft come flying off? I don't think your information is correct...
@@fightfish3265 Oh yeah sandboxx covers this in his back catalouge so maybe you should take this up with him as well LOL
You should start using the F-35’s nickname. PANTHER. Sounds better then LIGHTNING II.
Sorry. No can do.
All cat names are reserved for Grumman.
Didn't you know?
I like Fat Amy…
@@murrydog100 Still don’t know why the British call it that. Maybe it’s the shape of the fuselage.
The 🇬🇧 Lightning was fastest cold war interceptor 🇬🇧
The Bounced Cheque 😂
The damned thing is 20 years old, of course it needs updating. Especially since it's in consideration for replacing the A-10...
What about the Hermeus hypersonic engine?
Is that being considered for NGAD at all?
I believe Hermeus is for project mayhem
@@everypitchcounts4875 What do you mean?
@@craigkdillon sandboxx did a vid on it recently.
@@everypitchcounts4875 So, why did you say "project mayhem"??
@@craigkdillon US hypersonic drone program
They need to install some clan double heatsinks. Half the weight of the old IS models.
I guess the question is if the F35 has space left inside. You think the US DHS has 2 or 3 slots?
@@arsarma1808 They may have to remove the rotary auto cannon 2 to free up tonnage and internal slots.
Okay dude you have made that up
Most people have no idea that every fighter aircraft ever developed had serious issues to resolve, some very serious. WWII aircraft went through many upgrades after production started. The P-47 started out as a heavy, low altitude fighter, before the war ended, it could keep up with any Axis aircraft except the ME 262 jet. The P51 was disdained with the original engine, they installed the Rolls Royce Merlin and it became a legend. The F-35's problems will be overcome. It will never be nor was it designed to be compared to the F-22. Different roles. The F-35 will be sold to our Allies, the F-22 will not, we still don't know how good this aircraft (F-22) is as it's still classified. We know what tell us and that's it. A more powerful engine coupled with even better avionics and nobody laughs anymore. Look at the incredible evolution of the A-10, it started out a plane built around a gun, still is for the most part, but the upgrades in capabilities and tech is like a bag phone to an iPhone 14.
Man, this thing has just been a production disaster, delays, cost overruns, and now it needs new engines?
desperately is an overstatement
IDK i'm not american so my opinion might not be relevant but i still want to give opinion about this lol: F-16 had engine upgrade in block 30 onwards, so why F-35 can't enjoy the same hardware upgrade as F-16? Beside that, US is close to have conflict with china. I think US need to improve their capability massively in all aspects to face the challenge, and AETP engine is a piece needed by US to improve their capability alongside other improvement as well. Giving XA100 a chance will add another engine supplier for F-35, strengthening the supply chain for F-35. I don't think we have to drop F135, but we have to make new series to accomodate new engine (example: F-35D for Air Force and F-35E for Navy). Having second options definietly is not an efficient option, but it's needed in difficult time like today.
The F-35 needs a new airframe. The fact that its systems are the main strong points is not a strong point. It's less stelth then the Raptor, has too short of a range to be effective once long distance, is slow, is vary vulnerable to IR missiles, does not carry many weapons, and isn't vary maneuverable. All the SA will do for you if that stelth gets cracked is tell you when you're going to die.
So this is why the Brits are waiting on the Block 4's!
Well that’s not good for the plant Pratt & Whitney just built in town. It’s supposedly producing only compressor fan blades
Would there be penalties for LM if users of the F35 B get stuck at block 3? If operators bought into an upgrade path it could get costly for LM.
Great video, but it does make me wonder if a high performance Peltier substrate for mounting the electronics would be of any real use or benefit. Not being an electrical engineer or materials whiz, I kind of peter-out at "wonder".
On the A-4 Skyhawks that I used to work on, the cockpit air conditioning system used engine bleed air as the input. My hazy understanding is that there was a simple chamber where the air spiraled and somehow separated out into hot and cold parts. The cold air was used to cool the pilot, and the hot air was dumped overboard. No idea if this is still used or not, but it was certainly a novel technique. Peltier devices are pretty handy, but fairly inefficient.
The problem would then be how you cool the hot side, and peltiers use more power.
Wow supperb editing and amazing content
Sell a defective product and get paid again for a necessary upgrade, sweet deal.
Simple solution, use super conducting at room temp material
As much as I’d love to see more competition in jet engine development, the NGAP funds going to Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman are more likely for jet engine integration rather than new engine development…. unless you know something more?
The engine cooling issue has been known of for a long time.
Yeah, very long time now. They said from the very start that the engines would be upgraded, and not only for cooling, but also for super cruise. One of the biggest gripes was not having a supersonic cruise without using the afterburner
Just a reminder --- Every fighter goes through engine upgrades. By example, the F15 was introduced with P&W engines. Once they matured, they let the F16 depend on a single one of them. Then GE won a competition to supply engines for the fleets.
Wrong on everything.
Use a glycol based coolant like the Boeing 787 does for it's avionics. Minaturized version .
Most of what I see currently is saying no adaptive engine swap for the F35. New engines maybe, upgraded engines maybe, but the adaptive engines would be to large a change and create logistical nightmares. An additional consideration is the current Pratt and Whitney engine is wildly reliable and that is a big deal for a single engine fighter. Brand new technology engines would come with huge worries until they are proven. Interesting times.
Sounds like you work for P/W.
...or more likely have no idea what you're talking about.
@devobronc You always so thinned skinned and weak?
This is the truth. The F35 program is too massive at this point to clear all the hurdles required to bring an entirely new kind of engine into the mix. This video covers just about all of the pitfalls.
That and the fact that PW’s engine is proven and reliable counts for something. This video doesn’t spend enough time on this point IMO. If the new PW engine will satisfy the cooling and energy demand needs of the F35 for the next >20 years, then leave it at that. Dont bite off more than you can chew. The F35 is a single engine plane, it shouldn’t serve as a testbed for an entirely new generation of engines midway through its production run. The entire NATO alliance is in the process of replacing their 50 year old planes with F35, they cannot afford delays and certainly cannot afford a resurgence of the political nightmare associated with the F35s procurement and development history starting at the beginning until just a couple years ago.
Give it 20 years and sure, we can always upgrade the F35s then. After we know we can count on it.
As a Canadian, get me those F35s without a headline about engine troubles. Not a good headline for cheap military spenders that have a massive arctic region to patrol with no emergency landing spots anywhere.
@@devobroncHe's got a point tbh, looking at even the GE engine development it took some $6B to come to the conclusion that it is possible but not for all variants and would require another $6B in development before fitting and operational troubles. It was also rumored to potentially be an extra ton in weight; the technology is a little early in its existence at this point. NGAD's engines should provide a platform to develop the technology to make it lighter, easier to maintain, cheaper, etc. but for now cooling is the main issue and the ECU is the closer answer. Who knows, if we're lucky they crack open the budget dam and fund both at the same time for maximum cooling and power.
@@devobronc LoL
It's kind of scary to think that having two different engines becomes that much of an issue. How many fighters did the US support in WWII without computers?
The F-15 is about 50 years old and still being manufactured. The F-35 is built to last 4 decades.
How many WW2 fighters were still front line five years after WW2?
The F16 blk 50 and blk 52 both have different engines and are both currently used by the airforce.
@@Rob_F8F I think you missed the point mate. What he is saying is that there were many airplanes and within one model there were advancements made each year. The F-15 for example has had many advancements and modifications to update it and make it relevant over decades. If an airplane is not advanced to overcome deficiencies then it will go the way of the dodo bird sooner than later. FACTS
How many spitfires or mustangs do you think flew around with Pratt and Whitney engines?
I just about beat a dead horse on this issue: the late chief design engineer of F16 said F35 will lose in dogfight against Hafez Assad's Mig 21
Why not bring Rolls-Royce in? They have some advanced stuff and can probably do more than aircraft companies.
Because idiot host stated something really stupid at the end. Disregard what he said as it is pure bunk.
It may be a capacity issue, RR will developing a new engine for the FCAS.
@@bernadmanny RR has no engine in the same class. Would have to start from scratch. Not saying they could not create one, just they have nothing to start from. The engine in F35 or potentially in it has its origins in the F15/F14 from the early 1970's. USA has settled on a ~48" diameter engine instead of the ~1m class engine. Namely as it allows higher Bypass ratio
Would they retrofit older F35s with new engines?
I believe that is part of the problem, if they went with an all new engine, they'd have to retrofit the older airframes. The ECU however would be applied to new and old engines. Thanks for commenting!
at what cost? not all countries can just print money at will
I think the F16 is up to the block 70 variant.
why not use liquid nitrogen to cool electronics systems?
They were offered a new engine by Rolls-Royce and Boeing working together several years ago but the US Senate wanted a US built proven engine. They had trouble with the heat of the Pratt & Whitney engine from the start, the heat signature reduces the stealth capabilities. Sabre engines from the U.K. spent ten years developing a unique cooling system for its space plane engine, it reduces air temperatures in milliseconds. RR are adapting it for use in their engines.
GE's XA100 is 25% more Efficient and 10% more thrust than the Current Engines. Expensive, BUT why should the Protection of The Country have an Expense? New Avionics Consume heat, they'll need Cooling Power. USSR's MIG 25 Foxbat Avionics used Miniature Vacuum Tubes ,,, Cooled with Alcohol, Belenko Defection in 1976. America's First 4 Bit Microprocessor was 'INTEL' in 1971.
The damn things brand new!!!! AND its pretty damn expensive as it is
WTF!
Can I have Epacs on my phone 📱
1:40 "Mighty" ... that's a stretch for Fat Amy.
In the block 6 the heat of the electronics will be used to ignite the fuel....
Never use a Crap & Shitty engine when you could have gotten a General Electric instead
They should put the F22 thrust vectoring raptor engine in the F35.
The F-135 is essentially the F-119 core from the F-22 with a higher bypass ratio.
I'm not even close to knowing anything about this stuff, but would a liquid nitrogen cooling system work? Idk how long the liquid nitrogen would last, but electronics are way faster and more efficient the colder they are.
Oops, the B-21 has 2 of these engines flying it.
TL/DR : clients worldwide won't be happy
Can't they just open a window?
The Marines may just have to "deal with it." That's the way it often goes with the unique mission and capabilities of the Marines. You pay a price for being different. We're the Navy's problem child. We just get a lot accomplished on a small budget and with a small crew, so they tolerate us
53 billion is not a small budget. Russia’s entire military budget is 61.
@@Jake-bt3fc I mean yeah... But they don't have USAF money 😂
@@Jake-bt3fc 61.23$
“Small budget”
the F35 lightning II NEO
This engine inadequacy is not confined to this F35. During decades of US fighter production, the final version of a design have always been overloaded with more systems and weapons than the original spec, making engine upgrades soon after commission necessary. F14, F16, F15 and now F35 have all gone through the same painful engine upgrades.
600 jets already and now telling us there is an engine issue.
The F35 has always been a slow plane. A new engine would be a necessary change.
I’m confused. Didn’t it just get an engine upgrade?
because things can't *just* happen, especially when talking about an entire fleet of very expensive things.
It's the radar and directed energy weapons of the future
GE basically relaunched their variable cycle technology from the X23
Running hot??? Didn't the same thing happen to the F-14 engines? Weren't they having afterburner blowouts?
F-14 had P&W engines with 'compressor stall' problems which caused the loss of several planes. They eventually redesigned the engine to eliminate the problem. Changing engines is no big deal, The F4 used several different engines during its lifetime, the RAF-4 for UK used Rolls-Royce engines which had more thrust. They also lightened the airframe on the F4s for better performance.
At 110 million+ a copy it better upgrade its own engines.
More money! F35!
😂😂😂😂... maybe they will fit a refrigeration system and a nice big radiator.
How different things are today. The P51 design phase included production of the first prototype and that took 3 or four months.
Today it takes a couple of decades 😮😮😮😮
Oh yeah the Adaptive Engine is the way to go. Lets be honest. The F35 is flying brick with impressive tech capabilities. But its performance down right sucks. Mach 1.6 is terrible for any BVR strike fighter. The Strike Eagle optimally load can sling missiles at speeds over mach 1. Thats one hell of booster for the Amraam extending its randelge and making it lethal sniper. F35 needs at least this if its going to continue to be a poor dog fighter
Aerodynamic drag is proportional to velocity squared. A 20% increase in speed will require a 40% increase in thrust. F35 has very unfortunate aerodynamic drag. It will NEVER perform as well as 4th gen fighters at high speed.
F35+F22=F57
Haha
Perhaps they should look at Apple’s M series processors to run electronics cool without needing a different engine.