In Fairness to Diamant...
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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In this video I "level" Diamant using tonics to make the stress test more accurate/fair, and run through it a few times to show different results based around sol/sandstorm triggers.
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Identifying the level gap and tonic fixing was a big step. The tonic adjustment pretty accurately simulated Diamant's level ups. Timerra appears to be internal level 37 (starts 18, promotes immediatly, gains 19 levels to hit 20.) Here's what I calculated for that level.
HP Bld Str Mag Dex Spd Def Res Lck
Diamant 57 15 28 8 22 28 25 13 19
Timerra 48 9 23 12 28 30 28 17 18
Your real world results are quite close. Basically within rounding. I personally use randomized growths, so I don't have by spreadsheet calibrated with whatever method fixed uses for calculating fractions of growths.
We've still got an Emblem and weapon discrepency though, which makes a substantial difference.
Laguz friend is very easy to observe, but Roy's Rise Above in particular is easy to underestimate. It effectively gives +2/3 across the board. We could see Timerra gained 2HP, 2 Str, 3 Spd, 3 Def, 2 Res. Dex and Luck were harder to tell due to Alear support when she engaged, but probably +3 and +2.
Weapons : Mt Hit Wt Def Res
Ragnell 16 80 15 5 0
B.Blade 14 95 8 5 5
Diamant has 14 Bld, so he actually takes a speed penalty from Ragnell. The Binding Blade would boost his hit rate by 15, while Rise above would likely raise it about 5. So on Roy, Diamant would be +4 speed (3 from Rise Above, 1 from weapon weight), 20 hit, and about +3 damage (+2 from Roy vs. Ike, -2 from B. Blade vs. Ragnell, +3 from Rise Above.)
Simulating Roy Diamant with Binding Blade, at his new 36 speed, he now doubles the Elsurge Mage Knight (29 speed after Chaos style) and is no longer doubled by the Silver Sword Swordmaster. The same results as Timerra. On Ragnell, Ike would outspeed Timerra, since he takes -1 speed while Timerra would take -7.
Roy Damage is +3 across the board.
Hit rates have changed. Drastically. Engage uses a funky RNG system where displayed hit is different from the true hit rate. Linked below.
Ike True Ike Roy True Roy
S. Sword Swordmaster 52 54 72 85
S. Blade Swordmaster 56 62 76 89
Bolganone M. Knight 79 91 99 100
Elsurge M. Knight 73 86 93 99
The 1st swordmaster went from being missed almost half the time to only 1 out of 6/7 times.
Timerra still gets a natural +11-12 due to +6 Dex, -1 Luck. It's a real advantage. Although Diamant has a variety of workarounds. Fair fight, sword access, engravings, even the Hit+ skill. Hit fixing is much cheaper than Str fixing if you wanted to close Timerra's damage gap.
Ike is not a bad choice for Diamant. It makes him very hard to kill. Sol synergizes really well with Laguz friend. He's got the build to use Ragnell effectively, and access to high level axes and Georgios for Great Aether. The hit rate is an issue, but when choosing Ike over Roy, this is effectively a price the player has chosen to pay for the defensive benefit.
On Ike, Ragnell would make Timerra lose 7 speed. She won't be able to bring her own weapon for engage attacks, and won't recover her own health for the now double value HP.
If deciding which character gets which Emblem, easy. Ike on Diamant, Roy on Timerra. Without lance power, The Binding Blade is by far the best weapon Timerra can wield. But if you just want to know which character would be better on either Emblem, Diamant is better on either.
Also, a correction about Roy not really keeping units alive. Rise above gave Timerra 2 HP +3 Def, +2 Res. Binding Blade gave +5 Def and Res. That's +8 and +7. Counting the potential for a great knight, 2 mage knights, and 2 swordmasters, that's a potential 40 HP saved, on top of Hold Out. Timerra would have died without Roy in some of these tests. It's not quite Ike levels of tankiness, but the durability improvements are a big deal. Roy really does do it all. Damage is what he's best at. But the speed is relevant, especially for low build units looking for a good weapon. Binding blade hit fixes, and provides solid damage reduction and 1-2 range. Advance even acts as a mobility tool.
serenesforest.net/general/true-hit/
Mad respect for making this video. This definitively put the two units in stark contrast. The examples where neither Diamante nor Timerra procced Sol or Sandstorm was very informative and very telling. Thank you!
It would be interesting to run diamant with a hit engraving or hit plus 30. Still his unique class really holds him back with that low dex
I think the other thing to get from this video, is that resolve is a very good skill to inherit. Who knew that getting multiple Ike tanks would be a good idea to have haha
Sol doesnt proc often enough to be reliable so one should never rely on it. However over the course of a battle it WILL proc several times and save you 1 or more turns on your healer and some money. I think he is a pretty efficient unit in that way.
I think you’ve highlighted everything pretty well here 👍🏼 Your problems with Diamant, especially with his DEX and his hit rate, definitely hurt him a lot on maddening, and it’s 100% why I think going with Roy and swords is the better choice for him.
You can get him Sword Power pre-ch11 so he comes online earlier (or save for Speed if you get unlucky with the well, since that matters more). Rise Above gives him ~5 Hit (2 DEX + 2 LCK) and Binding Blade is insanely powerful with +15 Hit over Ragnell. It means your looking at ~70-75 Hit on enemy phase, ~90 Hit on player with his personal vs 50-55 on Ike.
Plus, S-Rank swords means he can Silver Blade Roy’s engage attack, or even Georgios once you get it at the end of this chapter.
Sol is still a bit too unreliable to bank on - even if he reaches doubling thresholds - but it can occasionally keep him above Hold Out thresholds
In my opinion, I think they are both good enough to run both of them as your tanks. I've always had a lot of success with Diamant, and not as much with Timerra but I was probably using her wrong, since you have continuously proved that she is a top tier unit. Since Timerra is great on a lot of other emblems other than Ike, and Diamant is a very good Ike tank, I think the way to go is to run Diamant on Ike and Timerra on either Roy, Erika, or maybe even Leif/Corrin
is iced coffee letting diamant cook?
In my first run, I used timerra on sage because I didn’t need more physical units and her mag growth is respectable, iirc it’s actually equal to her str growth without modifiers? She underperformed, so on my first maddening playthrough, I tried her on wyvern and she was my worst unit by endgame. I’ve never used her on picket and I see now how wrong I’ve been.
I use diamant as more of an offensive unit than a tank. With speedtaker and lunar brace+, so he actually tanks better than having Ike. I mostly keep offensive oriented rings on him mostly marth early game then chrom mid game for the stats then erika when she joins for the dex increase( which he really needs) then put marth back on him late game and he becomes a great tank/bait unit and always one of my strongest foot units.
Rng is predetermined yeah. At least for crits and hit rate. I guess skills like sol and sandstorm use the same rolls.
Yes, Diamant looks like he fares better here. The Urvan gives a Res boost which helps a lot against enemy mages. The Georgios hits really hard on Great Aether but it doesn't offer the boosts to Def and Res that the Urvan does.
I think Leif would have been really solid on Alfred and it was something that I wish I had caught in my run. Adaptability would work great on Aevinir given the diversity of weapons available to that class. Plus, Leif does come with a Killer Axe meaning Alfred would get all the weapons on the weapon triangle. The bonuses from Golden Lotus and Arms Shield would really work great together too. There are probably better tanks than this but he can take a lot of punishment with Leif as his emblem.
All the Lords seem to benefit from Lucina's Dex boost for triggering their passives. The devs. seem to have set their caps low and I guess attacks like Grasping Void would be too OP if they hit over half the time the unit got in combat. The only two Lords I observed on my run that were OK without it were Alcryst and Hortensia and I would argue that Hortensia benefits a lot from it too since it helps save staff uses.
Imagine if for some reason you had tons of SP books left so you could give Diamant the DLC skills Str/Dex +5 and Speed/Dex+5 . It would for sure fix his bad dex stat so he could actually make use of sol while still running the build shown here, only downside would be the slightly lower damage because there's no space for axe power but I guess the strength increase is good for both the ragnell sword and the axes he is running at least
i think lunar brace is way overrated.
the conditions are so limited to be relevant in the end game
works only on player phase with physical weapon
... you can use tonics pre battle?
Yes : )
Doesn't matter uncle Ben, sage Vander is better than both of them (By the way, not sure of you done this but you should make a video where you review other people's unit builds.)
Passive procs do consume the same RNG between characters, but bc Diamant has lower skill and he got doubled by the swordmasters while Timerra didn't he ended up not activating Sol as much as Timerra. Still that just means Diamant is much less consistent than Timerra, but at least he can do a pretty good job regardless.
So essentially Diamant stored more results than Timerra since there were more actions to account for?
Stored stuff is based on percentage, too. So while a "stored crit" may be -stored- it wont activate if the other unit is too low percent. So lets say a crit is 35% and crits. Thats "stored". But some unit with 20% crit may still not crit because their percentage wasn't high enough. Could be the same here. Tim's Sandstorm has a higher chance to proc, and Diamants -due to his low Dex- doesn't reach that stored percentage, so it wont proc. Which is an obvious reason Tims is just better.
Yeah the stored crit thing is sus, RNG in this game is a lie
Wha, this comment was from months ago, mydude Coffee? What you doin? Hehe, but I like it, sure is sus@@IcedCoffeeGaming
Can someone explain why keeping the bond level low on Leif is beneficial again?
Switching between Killer Bow/Axe without unlocking Leif's 2 range weapon
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Got it. I forget about his weapon adaptability perk. I heard you say that in the video but I didn't exactly connect the dots. I am not a huge vantage build user so I'm less familiar with Leif.
To stop RNG abuse, RNG is locked in unless you try something radically different in Fire Emblem to change up the RNG. RNG is never fixed in Fire Emblem, RNG just has locked in states that won't change its outcome. The only thing they would do is change up the formula for hit rates so that it creates the perceived outcome over the real outcome, i.e. players assume above 50% means good chance to hit and below 50% is a good chance to miss, so Intelligent Systems changes the formula for rolls to try to match this perception, it is still random outcomes, but the outcome is what the player perceives should happen will happen (in Engage they have a true random outcome for below 50% and increased odds to hit for above 50% chance; usually it is a double roll system so that below 50% is more likely to miss and above 50% is more likely to hit).
Anyways, there is no system where all procs will just not activate against an unit, you just got unlucky on 2 units in this case and the RNG is locked in for those two units against that enemy for that turn.
I really want to like Timerra but I have never had success with her. It’s probably related to my play style. The fact that I just tank the whole map on Bonded Shield and clean up by turn 5 most of the time I think devalues tanks to me. I have used Timerra in 3 runs but never found her as good as you do.
Roy is a generally better Emblem than Ike I think. Roy makes you statistically better, still allows you to dodge, and raises your attack power. Especially in the late game when you have access to Micaiah Ike is almost totally irrelevant and Roy is very good. When you have both Roy is overall better.
Just copy pasta my builds 2 run her : )
Give lief a rest!
Boucheron is insanely good, and he literally has the best growths in the game and his base strength is really high too. The ability to double/quad on the strongest axes all games against almost every enemy is really good, plus he has a might passive that scales with his speed.
For someone that is obsessed with speed, you give a lot of hate to the fastest unit that also gets the most HP, and he has the highest dex which goes with his axes for accuracy and can work with crit builds because his dex.
Diamat has the second worst growths in the game, Vander has the worst growths. You have to overcap Diamat's dex to make him an usable unit otherwise Sol procs are unreliable and if he is on anything other than his default class then he just sucks. Ivy is on the same boat as Diamat.
Boucheron isn’t even close to the fastest unit. His base speed is the same as Level 1 Alear and he has at least 12 units with a higher speed growth than he does. His passive doesn’t even become live until you get Anna or Chapter 6 if not.
Ok I don't know where you got your facts but Boucheron's total growth rates amount to 270, not to mention he has absolutely abyssmal str growth with only a 20% growth, what saves Boucheron a little bit is his base Str which is pretty good. He also has 45% spd growth which is also great and is accurate with axes which are the best physical weapon type in the game. Boucheron IS an underrated character in my opinion, but he needs 1 Energy Drop and damage increasing passives to pop off, pre-well I had him clearing ch 11 by himself with Momentum and an early Silver Axe (but the silver axe is a big investment and he needed a high mt weapon when others don't)
Diamant has 280 total base growths, while not much better than Boucheron he does have slightly higher str growth at 30% and a similar spd growth at 40% only 5% lower than boucheron. Diamant also has higher defensive growths. Where Diamant falls off is his dex growth being only 20% and his unique class requiring dex to be good, which also happens to have a very low dex cap to be reliable.
I'm not applying class growths for thos, but literally anyone can be the same classes as Boucheron, thus your argument that he has the best growths is invalid.
@@LuteSuperiority Tomahawk and either Well Axe or Brave Axe depending on what you want to do - might boosting for brave axe and crit builds for well axe.
Highest HP, Highest DEX, Highest Build, pretty high speed, but with speed and build he is the fastest unit.
Slap him on axe griffin knight and he will double/quad all game without any help.
You cannot look at a total number because if the growths are spread across the board the unit is bad, when a unit is focused in a few stats they are going to be much better of an unit as a result because they are focused and you can play and build off that.
Boucheron is a fast unit with high dex, he has the accuracy to hit with axes (an axe weakness is their inaccuracy) and their high might makes up for his low strength growth, but his base strength is so high that it takes to end game for other speedsters to equal his strength.
With his high dex he can go for crit builds which make up for the strength growth.
His passive is +2 might that scales with his speed and crits.
He also has the highest HP growth in the game ensuring that he can take a few hits and in combination with his speed he has high avoid, doubles/quads almost every enemy, and even if he does not avoid the attack has the hp to take a few hits.
I am going off of character growths only.
@@MasterStacona yeah but, he has bad defensive growths and bad str growth which means he usually does piss poor damage and speed fixing/dex fixing is way easier than damage fixing. And he isn't that good at tanking because he has low def and res. Also he does have a good bld growth, but do you really need that much bld when even Chloe can get to a point where she isn't weighted down by her weapon?
They are completely different types of bruisers and Diamat has the growths of Vander.
If you want to make Diamat work you would need to give him Dex+5, Speed/Dex+5, and Lyn Ring for more Dex and ensure doubling then he might actually be way better than Timerra as he would be way more reliable as a tank with the Sol procs.
Timerra is a bruiser that can take hits, but she mostly there for her damage with Sandstorm procs. This is why Eirika is bad on her because she can kill her targets with Sandstorm procs already, and if she cannot do that then she is a bad unit. Timerra lives and dies by the Sandstorm!
"You can always prove your bias, but you can never prove the truth."
You think what you are doing proves anything, but it proves nothing. You are just confirming your own bias towards something.
Also, Roy is a lot better for Diamat, as long as he is above 1hp from Sol procs and you fix his dex issues he will never die. Diamat is not good still, but you can make him work.
Sandstorm replaces strength/magic with defense, it just scales with weapon might, passives, and 150% defense and since her defense is higher than her strength with a better scaling, she does way more damage with Sandstorm procs.
Fix his dex issues? He has a terrible cap. There is quite literally a limit to fixing you can do.
"You can always prove your bias, but you can never prove the truth."
Also you:
"Ivy and Chloe are bad"
Projection level has reached 100.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Ivy is bad, she can be serviceable on her default class, but that is still not good.
Chloe I never said was bad, I said she is B tier and I explained why before multiple times. There are multiple units better for her magic side and multiple units for her physical side...
Boucheron and Kagetsu are better than her physically.
Framme and Pandreo are better magic speedsters than her magically.
Framme is S tier because she starts as your only healer, she has really good growths, very good supports, a really good passive that affects Alear who is a force deploy and herself - she accels at Sage, Enchanter, Martial Master, Mage Knight, Griffin Knight - and I want to try Warrior Framme for fun, she should be good as a speedster version that can use Radiant Bow well.
I have a very clear line of who is S tier and why; if at any point unit makes the game easier if you use them then they are S tier, even if not true for the whole game.
Everyone else is either A or B tier.
C tier is needs a lot of attention and effort to make work, but can be done.
D tier is pretty bad but if you try really hard you can make it work out.
~Alear: For her passive, being a dragon, and being a forced deploy, she is S tier.
~Framme: S tier because she is your only healer at the start of the game.
~Vander: S tier for the start of the game then falls to D tier after you get Yunaka/Micaiah.
~Louis: He is immortal on his fortress taking on the entire enemy army. And if you don't play Generals like an idiot, he remains S tier through out the game and post game.
~Seadall: He can dance.
~Veyle: Dragon, better user for Byleth than Alear, passive is good, and no one else better to put in at this point in the game.
6 S tiers and that is it.
A and B tier is pretty close together.
Clanne A tier unit that you need to know what you are doing to get him going so he is B tier.
Chloe B tier unit once she going, need to know what to do with her to the same degree as Clanne pretty much, but without the payout that Clanne brings so she is just a B tier unit and acts like a B tier unit forever.
Timerra A tier.
C tier is Alcryst on default class (D tier outside of that), Yunaka and Zelkov because thieves need heavy investment to fix them and make them good, Ivy C tier, but functions like a B tier on her default class because staves are good.
Goldmary C tier, she has the stats of Louis, but without the strength of Louis so she does not hit very hard meanwhile Louis is nuking fools with a Silver Greatlance in the end game; and I hate Goldmary as a character and is personally F tier for dragon Fodder *Drogoz Noises*.
Vander and Diamat both D tier, Diamat easier to take off since he does not have the high internal level, but still needs a lot of work to truly make him good and even then you are looking at a B tier unit after all of that work.
Challenge run, make Vander a super carry meaning he has to be made the strongest unit in your army and win to the end of the game with it - anything goes to make Vander be the best unit in the army (he wins each chapter's MVP).
@@goroadachi9489 passives and ring stats go over the cap
*puts diamat in the most optimal build*
"yOur sO bIaS"