Ogre Talk: The Lives Mechanic

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  • Опубліковано 21 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 58

  • @consis
    @consis 3 роки тому +7

    Again, this is the greatest reason to grow a generalist mage for your main. The generalist mage is the only class that will ALWAYS be capable of countering and taking full advantage of the unpredictable elements present in ALL battles. The end class for the Generalist Mage is Lord class even though technically the lord class is not a lord. It's actually a dark knight. Check the numbers. All dark knights can use ALMOST every ability and combo skills and all dark knight are nothing more than a 20% growth boost to all stats. This is what ALL the dark knights are: they are recruits from different lands by Lodis when offered more power and influence. If you become a Lord you ARE NOT one of the good guys. The Princess is the ONLY class in the game that is capable of using meditate AND restorative magiks, as well as a handful of other special skills.

  • @tsto-ne2968
    @tsto-ne2968 3 роки тому +5

    The whole point of the Tactics Ogre series is how fast you can kill a single enemy, then rince and repeat. Let me get back to this statement later.
    When i first heard of spears, i was delighted. 2 tiles affected with some drawbacks. They sounded like difficult to use weapons, which would pay off if used right. Then you use them in battle, and quickly realise that average damage on 2 enemies isnt much different from average damage on one enemy. The damage that you average out on an army is irrelevant to any specific situation you need to react to.
    Once you are over the grief of spears you realise that Rampart Aura is the only defense you need. And Phalanx prevents 90% of the damage until next turn. Even better, you can get 50 TP with the damage you deal yourself, then cast Phalanx again. This achieves 2 things: first, it prevents any melee units from charging into your back line, and secondly it makes your frontliners immportal. Literally. Immortal. Have you fought against the knight in act 3 of LUCT ? Than you know what it means to get stalled forever as long as he can cast Phalanx.
    Yes, Battery Ram exists, but i am still unsure of what is worse, having battering ram, or not having it. The skill literally shoots itself in the foot by reducing movement speed by one. The whole point of ignoring Rampart Aura is to move through the frontliners to get to the backliners. How are you ever going to catch up to a kiting archer if you have 25% less movement ? You are wasting a precious skill slot, and then even get a malus ontop ?!?
    At this point you realise that you can hold the frontline with 2 phalanx casters, enemies without battery ram cant get past it, and batter ram users are too slow.
    Now you are looking for damage. Lets first talk about magic casters because they are inferior. You look at the magic casters and start to notice their first flaw, they have less range than archers, and are especially vulnerable to piercing damage. Ooooooooooooooookay. But surely they must have other redeeming features, right ? Well they have spells. Unfortunately those shoot in a straight line, have very limited range .... and they friendly fire. Which means in the chaos of the frontline, if you use direct missile attacks 90% of the time you cant even get a good shoot of. Okay, another bad point, but what about indirect spells ? Lets look at them. They have less range than missile spells, and they deal friendly fire. Having imba ancient magic doesnt really matter if you obliterate your frontliners with them. Okay. So ... buffs. All that magic casters are literally good for is buffing from the backline, and hopefully staying out of the range of archers.
    Now archers. Lets start of with the bad points about them. There are none. Lets move on to the good points. First of all, they have more range than anything else in the game. They can take advantage of elevated positions. No other unit can actually take advantage of elevated positions. They dont friendly fire. No seriously, they can shoot past your armpit to hit the enemy you are fighting right in front of you. Due to these traits they dont have to reposition, which boosts their dps even further. In comparasion to magic casters you can concentrate infinite archer shoots onto a single enemy. Oh yes, they even get movement speed boni if you want to. The last point is practically moot, but here it is, they hit the hardest.
    Summa summarum you end up with 2 phalanx casters, 1 cleric, and the rest is archers. That is the meta of LUCT. Any other setup is an affection.
    Deactivating friendly fire for magic missile and area effect spells or activating friendly fire for archers would improve the mage situation. Make mages strong against frontliners, frontliners strong agains archers, and archers strong against mages.
    Just my 2 cents to your "There is so much that hard counters archers" ;)

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому +7

      It's definitely not the best balanced if we're looking at this thing from a perfectionism standpoint, but what I love is that every idea in this thing has an exception. Also, if we want to get technical, the meta was a crosstraining of archers and wizards into a seal team of crossbows, longbows, a Rib or Jig sniper, and lots of Scrolls. Phalanx Stalling is hilarious, but it's just one of many ways you can cheese this game. Fun Note: Even Pumpkinheads can potentially wipe out entire teams with a single action.
      Vanilla TO is DnD. One Vision is XCOM/Xeno. There.
      That said, we're also talking about post World here. Namely when you can go back and play the game for real. It's odd for them not to have the option at the start, but oh well. (For reference, I don't know how far you played in it, but they really expected people to go back with their original team and just keep going back, so it starts adjusting itself to your party at that point. Think...if XDIV jumped from Chapter 1 to Chapter 3 with the DLC turning into Chapter 4. )
      OK, Archer Counters, at least on paper, because the AI can be super random, and that's half the fun. Their numbers can be as high as anything, Deflect blocks everything but finishers. Not a true counter, but you see 5-35% odds of just refusing that Tremendous Shot, which tends to be enough for folks to get mad. Second, debuffs can come from all sorts of sources. Having a high potential max range doesn't mean quite as much when most maps put you on the bottom. Stunproof is only available on 2 items for an archer running a longbow. One, you start with, but likely won't keep on the archer. The other is the Snipe Bracers, which most folks don't even get. I mention this because almost every Terror Knight, Gremlin, Wizard, Warlock, POTD Special, Cyclops, or other dark caster will have Paralytic Wave, which they are both susceptible to, and can be ranged by. It has a deceptively long range, and with the wizards running Engulf after story mode, they can out-range most archer setups in most scenarios. Stun is also one of those that folks tend to just reset for, and save scumming isn't taken into account here.
      Also Octopi, funnily enough. Octopi often only take plink damage except for finishers.
      Also shield builds. Hoplites, Knights, anything that can spawn with heavy armor loadouts. Their Def Threshold tends to delete bows' damage bonus a lot of the time.That said, if you make an Ixcamilli's with Max ranks on everything, sure it'll hurt. You can do the same thing with a basic stick, so this is kind of that DnD thing where you can make anything OP with enough creativity, bows just come up as the obvious choice. It's why I have a video still coming together over how to get 50-250 damage out of throwing rocks.
      Also Faeries. Usually you'd just snipe these, but if they land their deflect, or get ignored, or dodge and get close, your own archers have an often 100% chance of getting Bewitched. This can also lead to your front line turning on your often lower defence ranged line. Bewitch is based off of RT Ticks, and Phalanx does not block this.
      Or Gremlins. Everyone's Gangster until the RT reset gremlins roll in to take 7 turns in a row.
      This list is already getting long. My point is...sure, archers hit hard, and you could cheese a bunch of mechanics to make them do well against many things. Every class and every weapon can be used in a similar manner, and locking down your options like that tends to create some real annoyance once someone goes down that route and suddenly hits something it doesn't counter. I've seen so many people burn out on this game just for that reason. Big numbers are not everything, range is not everything, speed isn't everything, it all has an exception. It's why I usually recommend for folks to try Ironmanning this thing. Every fight is winnable, but dealing with those times where everything's gone completely to hell due to something utterly random is where a lot of the best moments in this series come from.
      P.S. Casters can do a lot more than that. I'll do some parts on that later. It's a stupidly huge game that put it's best stuff in NG+, what can I say? XD

  • @Maroxad
    @Maroxad 2 роки тому

    Regarding the elemental stuff it makes sense. As fire spells are use, the atmosphere heats up, leading to the surrounding area drying out, and that 170C spell now puts people at 190C.
    And FF14 Shadowbringers was basically built with the elements being thrown out of whack, and a particular element, light, causing all sortsd of ailments. To the landscape and people living on the First.

  • @elimartin4103
    @elimartin4103 2 роки тому +2

    I love the everyfolks intro thanks for the inclusion also your content is 10/10

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому +1

      Glad to entertain, thank you for liking it!

  • @johnr4836
    @johnr4836 3 роки тому +2

    2 crissagem on a lord with double attack

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому +2

      Add an instill, and you can technically attack 12 times in one round, it's great.

  • @martinjose1335
    @martinjose1335 3 роки тому +3

    Love the bubbles folder name. Side Q: If I have both OV and vanilla on my Vita, do they share the same save files?

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому +1

      I thought they made sense, and yeah, they do.

  • @rune9055
    @rune9055 3 роки тому +3

    I posted this on Gamefaqs but maybe you might be able to shine some light on this subject. My interest is, to know what "specifically" determines the list of spells when story-units join the party or are re-recruited with? what exactly influences this? Is it Denam's actual level, or the unit's specific class level you reached before you recruit them, does post-game/CODA changes their preset tier spells when joining rather than the first-time story clear, does the route/chapter (L,N,C) also influences it? and also how many "sets/profiles/scales" are there for each unit? but again to find the sets we must first find what causes their set to scale.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      It varies. Usually they have something like all spells that would be available by some set minimum level, but can scale with a higher currently owned class level. This cannot include spells that the AI couldn't get ahold of, like Apocrypha.

    • @consis
      @consis 3 роки тому

      It is determined by your level AND whether you have retreated or used chariot tarot

    • @rune9055
      @rune9055 3 роки тому +1

      @@CoffeePotato Correct, only spells that are used by their default class are inlcuded. But the scaling seems to be more than just the level of Deman.

    • @rune9055
      @rune9055 3 роки тому

      @@consis really? is that so? The chariot and retreat counters has an impact of the story-unit's default skill/spells Set's scaling?

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      @@consis Where are you getting that from? I've tested this several times, and didn't see that happening. I'd love for it to be a mechanic, but I haven't found it. Please advise.

  • @jima.3478
    @jima.3478 3 роки тому +1

    May last run I did Lindl lost a heart, because of a crit knocking him in a pit in the Palace of the Dead. And I just did not pay any attention. As to for SNES well PS1 of Luct, that's why most of my front line I use is classes that can use magic to soften them up more so when they hit my front they are easier to manage.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      Yeah, the inevitable optimal approach with the original is just to ditch melee, and that's a shame. I mean ..unless you had a skeleton. Skele friends are fun.

    • @jima.3478
      @jima.3478 3 роки тому +1

      @@CoffeePotato or ghost, I use done just to distract the enemy ai. Original is still a fun game though, just different.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому +1

      @@jima.3478 Very true.

  • @FaustKellhound
    @FaustKellhound 3 роки тому +1

    If elixir were more common it wouldn't be so bad, but I do dislike the life counter. Falls when you have it on auto battle is the only reason I have any missing life's.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      It's a good backup system for the endless death respawn circus that was end game original TO.

  • @Nerevarine420
    @Nerevarine420 2 роки тому +1

    How hard would you say this game is ?
    Should I play more strategy rpgs before I play this ? I've only beaten 3 houses and mario rabbids lol picked this up for the psp wanna know if it's something I should play now or wait to play after playing stuff like disgaea and final fantasy tactis to increase my skill.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому

      It doesn't play like most others out there, in fact, that's why I say "this isn't FFT" so dang often in my videos. Personally, I'd always recommend this over anything else in the genre, and I'm extremely biased
      That said. It's overused, but the idea of Dark Souls difficulty is really the appropriate comparison here. Your first time through, it'll likely seem hard, or that grinding for stats is the only way...but then you see challenge runners doing this game solo or at Level 1, and it's clear there's a million mechanics in there to screw around with.
      It's complex, and only as hard or easy as you make it for yourself, in a way.
      I tried to cover this a bit in the series of guides last year, there's actually a bunch of games in this series, so this one might help too. ua-cam.com/video/ZysWSeHUsOw/v-deo.html

    • @Maroxad
      @Maroxad 2 роки тому

      As far as difficulty goes, TO PSP is one of the easier SRPGs out there. Roughly on Par with 3 Houses's Normal Difficulty. Unique units in TO:PSP are comically overpowered (having not only significantly higher stats, But an innate bonus to RT, which allows them to act much faster than your opponents. Enemy AI, is also very weak, and healers can heal from a safe distance (barring archers). So to make it interesting you can do challenge runs. I like having a 3 Denam turn limit on battles. Where if Denam gets his fourth turn, I throw the towel. Barring some really large maps.
      Revives can be store bought too.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому

      @@Maroxad Kinda. There's a lot more to it than that. So this is something it looks and sounds like they addressed in reborn, but the game was designed with something like 4 playthroughs in mind, getting harder every time. You can actually see some fun loadout and behavior changes using the World Mode cheat at the start of the game.
      That said, the player gets a shit load of tools, obviously. Most players I've seen never find even half of them. So I'd say it's a Dark Souls situation, for lack of a more well known comparison. Hard for folks getting into it, a pleasant breeze and challenge run circus when you go back to it over and over.
      On top of that, the teams work different on different maps, the squads are meant to represent all manner of different veterancy and alertness levels. In many ways it's got modern XCOM balance.
      In other words, long term players can opt to go for an Alpha strike build, abusing range and quick turns to wipe teams. But... technically the game is balanced to counter this more and more as time goes on. Which is why it never should have had the Chariot mechanic, frankly. Deflect even at a base value by itself can often throw this strategy out the window, but it takes a couple presses to avoid it.
      Anyway, going to hit the character limit probably, video on this soonish.

    • @Maroxad
      @Maroxad 2 роки тому +1

      @@CoffeePotato Even on my first run of the game I beat the game with 0 KO's on my side :P And I used a 2 units per class limit (barring guests). AI was just way too easy to manipulate.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому

      @@Maroxad Beat, or beat, though? I'm not taking just story mode. I'm talking the 11 chapter situation.

  • @IchsanAm
    @IchsanAm 3 роки тому +2

    I dont like how my party death, im always restart the match

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      Fair, but you should try going Ironman with it sometime, it's far more interesting with some tragic spice in there.

    • @IchsanAm
      @IchsanAm 3 роки тому +2

      @@CoffeePotato Something i must tell u, one vision is more difficult than original, specially on random battle.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      @@IchsanAm It's harder on the baseline, but the number of options counter acts that pretty well. You can pull off far more insane wins than before.

  • @viniciusbenettigennari
    @viniciusbenettigennari 3 роки тому +1

    Talking about the game blaming all deaths on you: at least it doesn't try to make you feel guilty for playing it anyways (unlike Spec Ops The Line).

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому +1

      #NeutralRouteForOptimalGuilt
      It does, just read the Warren Report after every battle. "He had a dying kid, you bastard!" "That guy just lived to make art!"

    • @viniciusbenettigennari
      @viniciusbenettigennari 3 роки тому +1

      ​@@CoffeePotato ah, but it doesn't hit you over the head with a "you're a baddie for playing a videogame" message.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  3 роки тому

      @@viniciusbenettigennari Fair. It does make you feel guilty for story choices, but the game wants you to play it.

  • @Momoka7
    @Momoka7 2 роки тому +3

    What you have to say is often interesting... but man talking about beating around the bushes. I tried to watch a couple of your videos... every time the same thing, you talk around and around... and around... gleefully not about the thing advertised. Like here... Lives Mechanic. Takes you a good 2 minutes to get to the point. And then the point is 3:30 where you suddenly jump to Bloodborne. Like what? Where is the connection here? For a moment I think you talk about Tactics Ogre, even saying something about Snes... and bam we are at Bloodborne and defensive play.
    I give up. Seemingly all your videos are a collection of ramblings and incoherent thoughts recorded.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому

      Yup, I ramble, that's fair. The mechanic of lives here is not too complicated by itself, but often the discussion is why it was made that way. That's what I was trying to get at. Like most things with this game, there's a lot of angles to approach it from, and details will always be forgotten. But hey fair's fair, some find it amusing, my wife also finds my rambles annoying. Different strokes and all that. I appreciate the critique.

    • @Momoka7
      @Momoka7 2 роки тому +1

      ​@@CoffeePotato That makes two, my wife finds me talking to her about games annoying.
      For a video though, I would have expected a more... directed approach, more like when you listen to a speech with noted bulletin points.

    • @CoffeePotato
      @CoffeePotato  2 роки тому

      @@Momoka7 Fair, though this is one of many videos rambling on about a rough topic. Basically since so many topics of this game tend to have absurd amounts of oddly specific exceptions, I usually find rambles covered more than a list. Plus it's easier to get excited about a particular thing when it's not scripted. The Details Of series attempted to do a more scripted thing, and that wound up having a lot of mistakes I corrected in later entries. Kind of why there were several on the never ending wackiness of the Prevailing Element mechanic..