🔴 Leica M10 Honeymoon OVER? 15 Reasons to buy a Leica SL in 2024
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2024
- After 2 months I compare the Leica M10 vs Leica SL. 15 reasons to buy the SL in 2024!
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After 2 months of owning my Leica M10 I used my SL and forgot how good it is!
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Hello Matt. Is the auto-focus on the SL2 reliable enough to photograph walking pedestrians?; thanks in advance.
You are the main reason why I bought an SL.😂 It was the best decision I ever made. It's my fav camera to date!! Thank you!!
Ah no problem at all! A few people have said that and I'm happy I could help. I still love it even though there are newer models.
I absolutely love how well you explain the value each camera offers while still mentioning their drawbacks. I purchased my own vintage M3-DS after months of watching your content. I’ve enjoyed my time with it but not cost of film! Now the M10 isn’t looking too bad in the long run. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks for the feedback! Yes digital M cameras work well long term and hold their value well if buy used/ get a good deal.
Matt you are right on here my friend. Excellent points! I first purchased M10-R second hand and loved it right away. After years of shooting Nikon and Canon, the Leica experience was exactly what I needed. I have added the SL2 with Sigma lenses to have AF. I enjoy shooting the SL2 as much as M10-R. Thanks for this video.
Thanks for sharing. I'm happy you enjoy both systems too!
I gotta be honest. I went from liking my SL when I first got it, to hating it, to being absolutely in love with it and I’ll never let it go. My 3 Leica collection (Leica M10, M10 Monochrom, and SL 601) is probably all I could really want. Sure there is no IBIS in any of them but all 3 are very fun to use and each give me a different experience.
I’d say you were one of the people that convinced me that I did not make a mistake in getting an SL 601. It’s truly an amazing camera that I’d dare say it will definitely last me more than 15 years I think. I’ll buy a spare SL just to make sure I’ll always have one but maybe in a couple of years lol
My M10 was my first Leica so it’s extra special for me. The M10 Monochrom gives me an even more unique experience because on top of it being a rangefinder, it’s a monochrome only camera.
Overall I’m very happy with what I got and have considered selling my Lumix S1R that I got 4 months ago but I’ll think about that more since I don’t really need the money from selling it. I got it as a budget Leica SL2 alternative. I’m probably gonna do photography as a part time job starting in the late summer so it may be best to keep it for that and have my Leicas be my own personal use cameras. Luckily the SL and S1R share the same lens mount.
Overall the SL 601 and M10 is an amazing combo. Wished I never rented a Q2 Monochrom to experience a monochrome only camera. It would have saved me $5.1K from the purchase of my mint condition M10 Monochrom 😂
Thanks Danny, good stuff. I'm not sure if you know but I own the S5 (see those videos). I can 100% confirm for client work you can use your S1R or the SL (2 body setup or 1 as backup) with 1 set of lenses and both produce the same photos. The Lumix works but I use it purely as a tool and never for pleasure. (Zero interest in picking it up haha)
The only thing I don’t like about my SL is the size. It’s not exactly a street photographers dream camera. However, having looked at an M10 for quite a while, I can’t justify the high prices of this camera. I had also been looking for a CL digital but finally decided to go with Fuji to cut down on size from what I had been using. For the price of a CL body I got an X-E3 and five lenses. I don’t think I’ve lost that much in quality of photos by going that route. Great travel and street photography set up. Now back to M10 vs Leica SL. Phillip Reeves did a deep dive on the M10 and concluded that the M10 doesn’t offer enough to justify the price. In fact he stated that the Sony A7R series will give just about the same quality for a lower price point. He also listed a ton of negatives with the M10, some of which you covered here. It’s not the ideal camera for sure. But for some of the reasons you listed and the use of M glass it’s a must have I guess for those Leica fanboys. I’ll stick with my SL for those times I want to have the Leica experience and get some fantastic shots. I spent a day in Berlin a while back and got some amazing photos. I have heard the SL has the Leica magic that even the newer SL2 doesn’t have. Thanks again for advising me to pick that camera up Matt.
Thanks Pete, happy to help. Yes agreed the M10 isn’t the best value at normal prices. I was really lucky and got my well used one cheaper.
I agree with all of your basic points. However, I am now oversaturated with the proliferation of Leica models. When I bought a M2 in the early sixties, I found myself thoroughly familiar with it and still using it in the 1980s and 90s. Even an M6 in the 2000s was not different enough to change my basic use parameters. Now with digital, the "improvements" like color, dynamic range, low light capabilities are in the new model camera body where those things used to simply arrive with each new film emulsion. One has to buy a new model frequently to keep up with IBIS or ISO range, etc. Looking at dynamic range comparisons, most digital cameras do nicely in the 100 to 200 ISO range; as did basic film emulsions since around the 1960s. Digital dynamic range degrades rapidly at the higher "ISO" settings. As much as I have enjoyed owing/photographing with Leicas for many years, I simply do not need to be on the "New Model" roller coaster. I divested myself of all Leica lenses and camera bodies and am now the proud owner of the Nikon Zf with outboard ISO and shutter speed settings; sufficient megapixels to print sizes equal to any photograph I have ever been asked to produce; excellent dynamic range and IBIS.
Thanks Stuart, yes you can either enjoy older models like me (SL is a great example..and not chase the latest and greatest) or for similar money buy a Sony/Fuji/Nikon and get a few more "modern" features. I don't need all the extras so I still much prefer my SL to the new Zf that I tried BUT that's just for my style of shooting. I still shoot film so ISO 100-400 is normal. It does all I need.
I think I wanted to emulate my M2 film experience when I got the M10m, and aesthetics are extremely important to me too. The M10 is a beautiful camera. But the SL seems very tempting with the close focus.
Yes it purely depends how you shoot. SL cameras completely kick butt for portraits and fast lens/ big lens/ studio stuff. M cameras excel with small lenses for street and travel.
I shoot music performance with my M240 and my Canon R and R6. If someone is moving around but coming back to certain areas (like a microphone on a stand there can be an advantage to pre focus and watch as they come in in the rangefinder, vs the frustration of seeing a good shot, someone turning their head and the autofocus pops to something in a back corner. (don't really like manual focus with evf). waiting for the Sl3 to come out, might then buy a sl2-s or the sl
Nice idea Peter. Shooting weddings with AF Nikons (pre-mirrorless) made me hate AF forever. (Except the Leica Q somehow) so I have no interest in AF glass to the most part and like you prefer to know I got the shot (by whatever MF means).
I got a good deal on an m10-p but sold it for an sl2-s, an even better deal. When I thought about it, the M10 was plenty heavy to where I didn’t want to carry it around unless I was going out specifically to shoot, and not knowing what was in my photos and if focus had been hit was frustrating since I was going out purposely to get photos. Final nail in the coffin was having important moments come and go without a picture because the camera didn’t start up fast enough or movement was too fast for rangefinder focus tracking. In an ideal world I keep it as a second or third priority camera for novelty when I want to feel cool and retro but the
Yes I think the SL series would be enjoyed by many M users. One camera to consider if you did want to own 2 is the CL. The CL is my 1st choice for travel as I can use my small M lenses and it's smaller and lighter than my M10. I can then use the added space and weight saving to carry a pile of film camera gear which is my preference.
4 weeks to the SL3 🎉
Yes! I like that they made it smaller and lighter. I can see many M11 shooters with the VF2 switching over for all the points in this video.
$9k usd
@@magiccarpetrider4594 not in the civilist world, we pay in Euros or Pounds
I’m newly in love with an M10M and R and all the great glass. I also shoot Canon R and R5 with Zeiss primes. I have no use for big L lenses, but would adapt my ZE Zeiss and M lenses to a SL, but for now the R5 does that v well.
I don’t like the brick handling of the SL, so I bought a Visoflex 020 for fast lenses I that couldn’t nail focus, now I just live view Lux’s and range focus the rest at 5.6-8.
I’ve been trying to justify a SL2 or SL2s for months.
Congrats on your M10M & R! Yes if you are happy with your Canon for mirrorless then that might tick maybe of the boxes the SL does. Consider a diopter/1.4x magnifier for your M cameras so you don't need to zone focus. I can shoot a 50mm f1.1 wide open on the M10 with 1.4x mag
I got a new Fuji x-H2 with a Voightlander 27mm F2.0 lens, its a pancake design but one stop faster than the Fuji pancake.
It has electrical contact with the camera so I feel it is about the same as the x100 mk 6.
Also, for my many M mount manual lenses I get the Lumix S 5 ii x which as you know is full frame like the M glasses.
I like that that camera can use Luts to give it some of that Fuji Jpeg vibe. Also, the X varient is a very advance video camera.
Nice, I have the old S5 and it works great for M glass. See my SL vs S5 video. I like the X black version.
Love my M10. I had a chance to shoot with an SL2-S recently, too, and it was great (the EVF is spectacular) but, at least for now, my Fuji X-T5 pretty much fills that role.
Great. At least you got to try and SL series camera so you know what it can do if and when you want FF. (My APS-C CL is nice but it's not a SL)
Hi Matt, with the M11 the battery and shutter speed are no limiting factors any more. For me the SL2 was too slow to focus with M lenses, and the manual focus by wire just sucks. There is a clear advantage for the M coupled focussing. The SL(2(-s)) autofocus is ok if light conditions are good, but slow and unpredictable in suboptimal light. Hopefully the SL3 is finally working faster and with less light, the whole reason to have AF in the first place. EDC compactness and 100% selfblamability make me go for the M atm, but I enjoyed your views.
Thanks Liam, yes agreed, the M11 fixes some of the mentioned "weaknesses". Yes a RF is fast to use but I've got pretty quick with M glass on SL cameras (fast paced model shoots)(no issues). SL3 will fix AF issues and is smaller so I think it'll be popular for those wanting these features.
I had never had or even considered a Leica before but I bought an SL mainly because of your videos. I'm super stoked with it. An M camera to me seems like a ton of compromises. But the biggest reason is I'm left eye dominant so rangefinder style cameras don't really work well for me anyways.
Thanks Nick! Yes to me the SL makes Leica possible for the ‘Everyman’ (I have more but my life is photography so I still don’t own a house etc)
Hey Matt, I'm the fella who almost bought the M10 before you did! Park Cameras listed a Leica M10 for around £3600 last week and I snapped it up.... because it was actually a mint condition M10-R! Delighted! Park Cameras have some bargains sometimes.
No way! I get the emails so I saw it briefly but I didn't look to see if it was the R. That's awesome, well deserved for holding out for a good one. Ace. Enjoy!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom do you still use the TTartisan 28mm 5.6? Wondering if it can do the job of my Q2. Not sure whether to keep both.
Hey Matt. Great points as always. I had the opportunity to buy an SL2-S with 35mm Summicron at a great price and can’t deny it was a great camera, especially with an M lens, but… despite the great grip etc, too big for me, and I traded it for a Q3, which I am liking very much. But… sometimes I look back at the pictures I took with the CL, and that really is the interchangeable lens camera that I really miss. It would be my choice over an M10 or SL.
Thanks Dick and good to hear from you. Yes I still have my CL and I'll likely do a CL vs M10 vid in the future. The CL win for size and ease of use but the SL has more wow factor being FF for portraits.
I had/have the Sl, Q, Tl series and CL (digital) cameras. The CL and the lenses for it are amazing. It definitely easier to carry with great glass. The SL was sold for the lumix s5 m2; I prefer the button layout on the lumix. I really don’t see much of a difference in IG between the cameras. Also the TL glass is some of the best Leica has ever made FWIW. Sometimes I think about getting the SL again because it’s built so well
@@paullefko yes CL glass is SL quality but smaller. I love my SL
Matt thanks always for the great reviews, tips and your personal opinion on leica cameras. And because of you I'm thinking about to buying leica SL series 🤣😂 maybe the leica SL3 if that camera is getting smaller than the previous model, also if I see some upgrades. But may I ask you about the Panasonic S5 II or S5 IIX? If you adopt leica M lenses same on the leica SL series performance and quality. Just curious. I read about the original Panasonic S5 sensor glass is not thick as sony sensor. That's why Panasonic S5 is similar to the SL and I know you bought it first before Leica SL original. That's why I'm curious, if it is same as Panasonic new S5 series some says the sensor glass is thicker. Thank you 🙏
Thanks, yes see me SL vs S5 video. Both give the same photos. S5 II will have better AF but I still prefer Leica (I don't use the S5)
I'd love an SL2/Sl2s but not sure I can justify the cost. But with SL3 out, the used SL bodies seem really good value. This video may just swing it... And, of course, I'll keep my M10 as it is spectacular and real fun to use
Thanks Chris, yes the older SL models offer excellent value to Ms
I like all my Leicas, especially the CL and my Sl2-S.
I'll have to do the CL vs M10 one day even if it only gets 10 views!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComYes! I‘ll watch that one, too!
Re: startup time on the M
You don't need to wait for the fancy stuff to be up, like the display... Switch on an klick, the M is directly ready.... At
least the 240...
Cheers Axel
Thanks Axel! For Non LV mode the M240 is great but in LV it is really slow (M10 is improved but SL still wins). In RF mode it's fine so that's the main thing!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yes, Matt, and on the M LV mode is anyway...😜
That's a relief. I thought the M10 was going! Are the M10 presets on your website the ones you've just been working on or are they old ones?
Thanks Paul, no it's a keeper! No still the old ones.. give me a week or so. I still need to do the M240 vs M10 vid so I'll probably announce them then.
Yeah, I was a bit worried, too!
I bought a mint SL a few days ago for CAN$2000. 😅😅😅
Congrats!! Great camera
Nice video Matt. I have been debating trading my Sl 601 for an M10M. Miss the smaller experience in hand but love the quick critical focus capability of that huge EVF. Ugh.....what to do? Said that I'd never get rid of my Q2M but that might be the obvious trade.
Yes if you’re looking at the M10M the Q2M would likely be one redundant.
Great comparison Matt. Can’t afford the M10 so will stick to my harem of m240, SL, CL and TL2 for now 😊. On a OCD note - is there a tear or scrape on your M10 leatherette? 😅
That’s all you need! Yes I got my M10 at a cheap price because of damage. I don’t mind.
yes yes yes!! the SL has better color in my experience.
Yes I still love my SL!
additional just for info - you can now also use the new Battery BP-SCL6 with the Leica SL( also for SL2 and SL2s) ,capacity for more pictures for less money - I´ve used it since 4 weeks now and it´s great !
Thanks, great tip! Yes I thought the size was the same so I'm happy it works OK. Same for Q2/Q3 too I think.
But you need to charge it with the original charger , that's all to know
How would I ever decide? I have a Nikon Z9 so I guess the choice will be beween a M camera or Q camera for an every day carry. Now that I know the base ISO of the M is 200, I really don't like that.
Thanks Thomas, yes 200 seems "poor" compared to the SL. The M11 fixes that with a ISO 64 base.
My SL lives in a bag under the desk, my Ms are always over my shoulder. I will probably sell my SL, thought they don't fetch much now.
Yes it depends what you shoot. If street the Ms are king. For studio and portraits the SL wins easily. (Depends on lens choice too). (SL3 just released too!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComI shoot street, but the M is also good for portraiture and I've even used it for fashion.
I get over digital M cameras too. They’re just not as special. SL is large though and I don’t want to daily it. Enter Q 🤩
Ha yes, luckily we have a few nice cameras to select from to suit all tastes!
Matt: I might have missed it: What were your reasons when you recently purchased the M10, and not an M11? Was it simply cost, or the (supposedly) unreliability of the M11? Thanks, I'm still not clear what to invest in, the M10, or 11.🙄🤨
I did do an M11 video.. I don’t need the 60MP but I like the weight and battery. Both will tick the box for me so I got a cheaper M10. I would for a that much for a camera for the M11.
Hi Matt, thanks for all amazing information. I love my Leica SL Typ 601 and want to buy a 28mm, I have watched your 28mm comparison from 2 years ago. If you were to buy a 28mm for your SL (601) today what would you buy?
Thanks! 28 Ultron II for performance, 28 / 2.8 Skopar for size (or TTA 28/5.6)
Many thanks, Going to take advantage of your 5% discount at Robert White.@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom
Hi matt, what about shooting jpeg in the SL? How are the colours?
Hi, i've not shot JPEGs for maybe 10 years so i'm not sure but all Leica cameras are said to have great out of camera colours.
You have to switch your gear, to have a reason for a new video. You can do this as often you want;-)
Ha thanks, it was the studio shoot that prompted this video. I'd not used the SL for 2 months and I thought hmm let's pull it out to compare to the M10. No contest in that setting!
How does the Leica SL compare to Leica M when using Leica M lenses?
Is the performance change in colors and corners noticeable?
Hi, if you've seen my various SL videos you'll know M lenses work no issues. That's all I use for portraits and I love it!
what a strange comparison of two totally different cameras. only when it comes to the brand name then they have sth in common and of course: you can take photos with them. But whatever need and whatever priorities as well as whatever one favour: it's just two different systems, each has its limitations, advantages: but come on, to compare a M10 to a SL with respect to "speed" or start up time or lag in Live View: one uses those systems for different purposes: and I can close focus with my adapted Nikon or CanonFd Macro lenses, with bellows ... on my M240 and LiveView, by the way, I use my M8.2, M240 and a NikonZ7 to shoot sports events, boxing events, weddings etc. mainly, and the Ms for all the other stuff . I did test the SL2 and SLs ... and am still temted to sell my Nikon Z gear, as those Like bodys are very sturdy compared to that plasticish haptics of the NiCaFujPentaxnons...(I had them all, always came back to Nikon). And who really "needs" two card slots? But M-System vs Sl, ... what a strange and funny comparison;-) Thanks for your your efforts!!
Thanks Jens! The overlap is a lot closer than you might release for many in the Leica bubble. They buy the M10/M11 and kit it up with grips, EVF etc and shoot it like a mirrorless. No!!! Just use the SL which is designed for this and better in most ways for that type of setup.. Use the M for what they are good at. (Yes you can use both cameras for most things but the SL is rubbish at street just as the M is a poor choice in the studio. I try to help people realise that maybe the M is better for their style of shooting or more likely the SL over the M. I love the M system but for easy photos the SL is great. (You can then swap the SL for any generic mirrorless camera to taste, Nikon, Canon, Sony etc but Leica cameras make me pick them up, other brands stay on the shelf even if they can take similar photos). My 2p worth!
I agree with your comments here. I can also note that:
- Regarding SL cameras: the SL2 has more resolution (even when using TL APS-C lenses), a better and greater resolution EVF, IBIS, 2 full size SD card slots, faster shutter speed limit (1/40,000 vs. 1/16,000, handy when using Noctilux lenses in daylight), and an additional function button on front over the SL. Used SL2 prices are pretty good.
- Regarding the modern M cameras: the M11 has no baseplate, greater battery capacity, greater resolution, battery optional EVF, 64 GB internal storage over the M10.
Because I wear glasses, my SL2’s EVF is easier to use than the M11 rangefinder (I can’t see the M11’s frame lines for wide angle lenses when I wear glasses). I’ll soon be trying a diopter corrector on my M11 optical viewfinder to see if a I can get away without using spectacles while shooting. I currently mostly use the VisoFlex2 on the M11, which makes the camera lose a bit of its more compact nature over the SL2. That said, the VisoFlex 2 is impressive.
Thanks John, yes great points made. As with most things in life, spend more money and get more features (SL2 & M11) ..black lightweight M11 is nice.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Regrettably, Leica kit is pretty expensive. But as you and I have experienced, buying used Leica kit (in excellent condition) can lower the cost considerably, with no down side.
I’ve seen a few used SL2 cameras, and they were roughly half the cost of a new one. The used price might drop a bit more if and when an SL3 is announced.
Hi Matt…..what happen to the EVF, seem the rubber eye cup missing
Yes it finally wore off / fell off after lots of use. I will try to get it fixed.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComI have the similar problem for my SL601. Can you made a short video the replacement process….
@@wanfookeong9800 probably too small a topic but I’ll mention as part of a larger video if I get it fixed.
Still love my SL ! I'll send you an unrelated issue which may be useful for your followers. Cheers !
Thanks George!
I wish Leica would make an adaptor to shoot Hasselblad HC glass on an SL camera.
That would be cool!
Tip number 21; buy a Leica M10 Monochrome next to your MP film and you will be happy for ever ....
Everyone’s different… I had a M10M and MP and realized I preferred shooting black and white film and sold the M10M. Now I have a ZF which is my “digital Leica”. Still happy with the MP. Our goalposts are always changing!
@@hellatightdude Indeed, bit I like to play with Matt's goalposts ;-)
@@euroyank860 hahaha fair enough!
Ha thanks Eric, you know I prefer B&W film but thanks for the idea (I know it makes sense on paper but for digital I can get better B&W with RGB sensor + presets)(I have tried many of the mono cameras).
Yes, film for the win! Even Nikon film is more fun than any digital (see last video) :)
Thinking of picking up a SL - anything to look out for? Cheers 👍
Nothing specific, just a clean copy
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom A nice clean one arrived Friday 👍😁
@@mtbnumber23 congrats! I still love mine
Which collapsible M lenses can be used on the SL but not the M10?
None, it’s the other way around. A few lenses fit M cameras but not SL. J12 lens is one example.
Remember these lenses were designed for M and LTM cameras so no issues.
I thought some could hit the M sensor when collapsed.
😊
Thanks!
I thought the original SL had weather sealing?
No, only later models. You can still use in it rain like an M cameras but it's not officially weather sealed.
Hi Matt - shoot Fuji and live....
Haha thanks Michael. I have the little CL if I ever want a crop sensor digital. What you really meant was shoot FILM and live ;)
Will you buy the SL3? Coming out soon
No, I'm happy with my existing cameras.
The M240 is still the best Digital M.
It's got its fan club for sure! I still have mine
Pls Matt, if you are feeling youreself as "Mr. Leica" don't bother us with such a thing as SL or Q is. Or do you thing Erwin was not a greatest "Mr. Leica" ever? Is there something to dissagree with his statement? I don't think so....
Ha thanks Boris. I cover all cameras with the Leica badge (and even film cameras without it!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Okay Matt. I know. You are an gentleman. You are a Real (new) Mr. LEICA!
For less than 1/4 the price of an SL ($500) I got a 42MP Sony A7R II. I can use use Leica (and virtually any other) lenses with AF via a Techart adapter. It's smaller, over 200gm lighter, has IBIS and a tilt screen. As usual Leica is an overpriced and underfeatured cult camera.
Thanks George. I can relate. I have the near identical Lumix S5 (takes the same photos as the SL and same lens mount). I've not checked the prices but probably 1/2 the price. Do I use it. Nope. (You can get cheaper cameras with 10x more features but people that like Leicas often are trying to get away from that and move from Sony/ Fuji etc to Leica for a more back to basics style.. and then yes you pay extra for it! Maybe I'd love a Sony with MF Leica lenses on but I know many Leica lenses used to perform badly on the Sony sensors. Not sure if they've fixed the sensor stack thing.
After the price of your TechArt adapter, the Sony is around half the price of a used SL. You also got a rare deal on that Sony.
Leica lenses lose clarity on Sony sensors, rather famously. Focus peaking is also not particularly accurate.
The A7Rii battery life is absurdly bad. I have 4 extra batteries for mine. In winter street sessions, I go through all of them.
The Sony gains resolution at the cost of dismal color. I've sat with thousands of raw files. A7Rii cannot even approach Leica. The only option is a mountain of time in Lightroom, which is a garbage fix. That time could be spent in the street.
The Sony has no external indications of exposure. The only choice is EVF or staring at LCD- another "look at me!" moment that tosses candid options out the window.
I have and use an A7Rii. It has plenty of upsides.. but it isn't better because it's cheaper.
I believe everything you say, but, still, the SL is UGLY in comparison with your M10. Also, the shutter on my M10-R is very quiet, much more quiet than the shutter on your M10.
Thanks, yes the SL is a tool, the M's are pretty. (and yes re. M10-P/R for the shutter)
The M10 is MORE than just "pretty." On the street, how often do you put the camera up to your eye to take a photo? Are you going to invest in an SL WITHOUT buying heavy, autofocus lenses at the same time? Probably not. So, now you have two 50mm lenses, one a lightweight, "M" 50mm and one a heavier, "slower," SL autofocus 50mm.
I would love to try one.I shot weddings and commercial photography with a Hasselblad back in the 1980s.kodakVPS.😊
Great. Yes very nice cameras if you get a chance!
😊
Thanks!