Well there is the order/chaos system and there are named goetic demons, these are core parts to Megaten. Catherine is NOT Megaten, but it's clearly very inspired from that franchise. It does not surprise me at all people have connected them.
@@Mysticgamer Devil Survivor is actually one of the few Megaten games to be rated T despite it being just as dark if not darker than the other games, primarily because both games have small demon rosters with none of the pee pee guys like Mara in them. Cathrine was different than the other games because 99% of parents upon seeing the cover would think that it's porn despite the games having no actual nudity. The other games would get a kid flamed by conservative parents for being "satanic," but a kid might get out of it by concealing the game's true nature. (I called SMT4 "Demon Slayer 4" to my christain friends and they believed me.) Cathrine was worse because in the minds of conservatives porn is WORSE than worshiping the Lord of Darkness, and Cathrine certainly looks like porn from just the cover if you don't know the game is just a puzzle game with no nudity or explicit sex shown on-screen.
Your complaints about Persona Q are exactly why people love the Etrian Odyssey series. Punishing difficulty, drawing out the map like you're using graphing paper, and varied ways to build your party to explore said dungeons.
To be fair, in Persona Q you don't have classes, neither skill points to make your builds, add the fact that you have Persona skills, wich means less variety for niche skills, like bodygard, links/chases, etc.
I love Etrian Odyssey, but couldn't finish neither of the Q games as they don't offer you too much versatility in the builds. They felt linear and the dungeons were kinda meh, which is supposed to be the strong point of a dungeon crawling game. Also Nyarly is right, I could tank an entire floor or two on some Etrian games, but Q had me discover a shortcut so I could fill my SP back, the persona combat made it way to reliant on resources (and I don't think I got to the point of having the sweet sweet MP/HP recovery skills)
@@chuckchan4127the good about that game is that the plot is so good and memorable that you can quit playing it for months, and picking it up again wouldn't be a problem cause you most likely remember everything about the story. I'm currently on the last sectors, and took a break of like a month after finishing eridanus hahaha
I picked up Strange Journey and just wanted to try the first 20 minutes to see if I'll like it. I'm 50 hours in now, in the 6th area. Didn't expect to get hooked so fast.
i played persona 4 golden for the first time on pc last year, and without a nostalgia bias i can safely say its not only my favourite megaten game, but my favourite game of all time as of now
Same, I played Persona 5 first but didn't like it nearly as much, there was just something special about Persona 4 Golden that scratched an itch I didn't know I had and now it's my favorite megaten game, even after playing multiple others and favorite game of all time
Also my favourite game of any on this list, though I got a much different kind of enjoyment out of some of the other games. Even with Megaten I feel comparing many of these games is comparing apples and oranges. Very much one of those "what kind of game am I in the mood for" moments.
I agree with it being one of the best, my main reasoning is that while it's quite small in scope, it does what it does to a T and very well. It's a small well oiled machine. Also, I'd say while the characters are not necessarily as "deep" as others in other games their PARTY COHESION as a group is better than pretty much every other SMT entry.
I too am late to the Persona party, 2 decades late lol, am done with P4G on PC and P3FES on emulator, I too am confident to say I'd put those 2 higher, without having a nostalgia factor. Going to play P1, P2IS, P2EP, PQ, PQ2 too via emulation, oh and have already wishlisted P5R on Steam
Back in 2006, I around 9-10 years old, playing a little game called Snowboard Kids on the DS. I loved it because me and my siblings used to rent Snowboard Kids for N64 from our local game-rental store, so having a new version on the go was great for long plane trips. In SKDS, a cute little snowman named Jack Frost and his evil counterpart Black Frost were secret unlockable racers, and they where really fun to play as. I still have the cast shouting ATLUS every time you boot up the game burned into my memory. By 2009 I was turning 13 and had saved enough money for a new DS game. Given that me & my family lived in Alaska, importing games via Amazon was our real only option besides the local Radio Shack for new games. What do I see browsing but that familiar ATLUS logo, on a little DS game called Devil Survivor. Being the edge lord fresh teenager, I bought it on the spot, waited nearly a month, and was surprised to find that lovable snowman again; needless to say I've been a life-long ATLUS fan ever since. I also distinctly remember later that year in James Rolfe's AVGN review of Virtual Boy titles my utter shock of seeing Jack Frost again, alongside the Jack Brothers, but in a game from 1995 - before I was even born! Shortly thereafter my family moved from Alaska to the mainland, and on our road trip I had gotten Persona 3 Portable. I bought it because of the cool looking skeleton on the cover, alongside myself bearing a strong resemblance to the protagonist. The beginning of the story resonated all too well for me: moving from a familiar town to the middle of nowhere, entering into high school. I feel like my perception of ATLUS titles going forward was spoiled by the incredible quality of these two titles alone, but I love the majority of titles regardless of public opinion. In high school I borrowed my best friend's brother's copy of Persona 4, by 2017 in college I bought the special edition of Persona 5, and again in 2020 as a graduation gift with Persona 5 Royal, which really helped me get through the initial quarantine. ATLUS titles have held a special place in my life, from philosophy & existentialism, to the unrivaled soundtracks and beloved casts. And all because of a little snowman going Hee-Ho~
Persona 3 may have had a more profound impact on me as a kid because it was one of my earliest experiences with story-driven games or games with deep narratives, but Persona 2 for me takes the cake as one of if not my absolute favorite MegaTens. The gameplay is easy for me to adjust to and Eternal Punishment's gameplay is superb in particular, but it's really the quality of the story especially by PS1 JRPG standards as to why I've held it in such high regard. Tatsuya's one of my favorite JRPG protagonists and Innocent Sin's story especially just balances levity so well by respecting its audience enough to process how complex its themes and character exploration is
@@warriorofthegrandline2y618 Eh, as someone who played the games in order, Persona 3 felt like it was a sequel to Persona 2 in lots of things like atmosphere and story themes while 4 and 5 (though 4 is a bit better than 5 in this regard) felt like they were their own series so I group these 3 games together. I personally found both Persona 2 games to be lacking in good OST, most of it is repetitive and generic with only very few places and bosses that have something that's different and good (both og and remixed OSTs) and this series is known for its OST and that sucks cause I wanted to love Persona 2's OST but the only thing I found good was the writing/story and the unique look it has. It is very dated in gameplay and I absolutely despise EP's combat, it just is a really big turnoff that I have to go through like 4 or 5 menus so I can change what the team even if I need to change only one character's action unlike in the later games and even IS. The simple combat option that turns off the animations definitely made grinding muuuuuch easier especially on an emulator with increased speed and that makes it have the best grinding imo (if you don't need to change any action). However you can definitely argue for either 2 or 3 to have the best Persona story and writing. I'd personally rank them like this: Persona 3 Persona 2 (I know most people prefer EP over IS but I group them as one game since it's one story) Persona 4 Persona 5 Persona 1
I couldn’t get past the insanely boring gameplay tbh and talking to the demons got soooo tedious. I did like the characters and story quite a bit but I gave up playing and just watched the story bits on UA-cam
Love to see a new tier list from Nyarly.... I normally hate YT trends but I actually find tier lists to be very fun... especially lists about certain topics like Megaten games which are already heavily divisive and contain a vast array of opinions While I'd def have some differing opinions.... I respect the hell out of anyone who puts Persona 1 in A tier
Gotta be Nocturne. Bought it when it first game out, based purely on the box blurb on the back of the case. Turning it on that first time, realizing it's something completely new and different from all the other jrpgs I had played before. Never forget your first time.
Love it too. Personally p5 is not in my top 5, I get attacked for that. I don't love that game. But I do love soul hackers 2. Persona fans specifically can be very mean and gatekeepy
@@jonathansoko1085but not all persona 5 fans,i do have interest to other game other than persona like catherine,devil summoner,devil survivor,smt nocturne and V
@@ephemeralbro you can say it's overhyped but it def isnt below 8/10, i felt so invested in the alignments and i could totally see how each character represented their view and why they did considering how they grew up
My problem with smt4 is getting hopelessly lost on the map. Every time I play it I end up quitting because I have no clue where to go, I try to look up walkthrough but it doesn’t really help because of the map, and the whole time I’m wandering around endless waves of enemies
P3P and P3F are each good in their own way. but P3F is groundbreaking, where as P3P feels gutted in visual and aesthetic comparison. i just cant reconcile the high rating you give it compared to P3F.
Devil survivor overclocked was my first ever SMT game and I will agree with you on that placement, it is still one of my favorite games to date and I hope it gets a switch port
SMT IV story is just reimagination of SMT I story, and ending in SMT IV Apocalypse is very similar to SMT II ending (i mean fight with Satan and YHVH). But I aree SMT IV have great story concept, there are some flaws but overall is really good. Strange Journey and SMT II story is even better.
I know i may have gotten spoiled from Strange Journey but looking back as to how it handled it's story/alignments compared to SMT IV it kinda made the story a bit weak simply because of how neutral-biased it is (and somehow for a neutral bias game it made it hard for you to actually get neutral without going thru alot of BS just to get locked onto neutral) and out of all the other routes Neutral is the only route that offers the most content (which made Law/Chaos weaker imo) that doesn't mean the cast is bad tho, i definetly do like the dynamic that the IV cast had and it's one of my favorites when it comes to mainline SMT's casts
After playing all the Persona games, I can safely say that Persona 4 is easily my favorite for numerous reasons, but I think the mystery is what really pulled me in. And I love how you’re the one who needs to solve it. The game barely nudges you in the right direction, it has to be you, the player, who figures it all out. Even some dedicated mystery games don’t do that. And then the payoff with the main villain is just so satisfying.
What blows my mind is that you actually have the time to play all these games. I’ve only went thru SMT 3 Nocturne HD Remaster and Strange Journey Redux so far. Currently playing Persona 5 Royal and I’m in love with it!
Persona 1 is my favorite megaten game of all time. No other game in the series can match the atmosphere that it presents. The soundtrack (PS1 version obv) is a masterpiece and it perfectly captures the dark and dreamlike mood that the game’s narrative was going for. The game is definitely lacking in some areas (namely the gameplay and story) but it more than makes up for it by providing an experience that other megaten games just can’t replicate. It is a one of a kind game, for better or worse.
While I don’t think Persona 1 is the best persona game(my profile picture probably fooled you) I think it has the best atmosphere and music of any persona game. It’s just…nailed really well in my eyes and I think the story is pretty interesting. While I don’t think the cast is Persona 2 levels of good they’re people I like to hang around in real life. If you’re looking for a persona game that has the atmosphere of an SMT game I can’t recommend Persona 1 or 2 enough.
Not the best, but the one that started it all, and has the most interesting look and feel of the whole series. Love the fact you have both old school weapons and guns.
You’re a brave man putting smt 5 in S, I loved it too despite the less than gripping story and characters. I enjoyed the battle royal of gods and slaying them all. I still think smt 4 and SJ are the best because of their top tier characters and world building. They have the best atmosphere and music for me. On the other hand I though Catherine was kinda trash. The characters were good but the gameplay got boring and the story spiralled into stupidity imo. Lost interest the further in I got.
@@tendatonda1634 I'd say SMT 4 did they best job of making the world feel lived in with more stories unfolding in the background. SMT 5 felt like it had some glimpses of it too, like the glasses girl that went off to support the fairy village because it fit her character arc. A lot of people don't like that she wasn't very present in the main story but I probably wouldn't have cared about her anyway, might as well use her as a world building tool.
Funny thing about portable is that the change allowing you to attack the turn you get back up is one of the reasons I like FES more. In FES I really like using strategies where you knock down an enemy and then leave down to waste its next turn rather than going for the all out attack. Deciding whether to go for damage or a free turn is a really interesting gameplay element that was lost in Persona 4, and it makes me sad that P3P uses Persona 4's system here. The lack of controllable party members does make it harder to use this strategy, but again, actually using the tactics menu solves that problem
P3 gotta be my favorite, I just love the characters and the story. Also based for appreciating The Answer. The only thing I don't completely agree on is Portable being better than FES. While it has some nice QOL additions and femc, I still think the lack of cutscenes, 3D overworld and The Answer makes the narration not hitting the same way. I think that Portable is better for a second playthrough as femc, but I'd recommend FES for a first experience.
I think the reason he says that is because Portable was his introduction to the persona series, which makes sense that he'd be a bit biased when it comes to that since it's the first version he's played.
@@WindermedI actually regret playing portable first. At the time I did it cause I only had a psp emulator and was a bit scared of not being able to control party members. However you lose so much being unable to experience the overworld and having a lack of cutscenes. My play through with fes was significantly more enjoyable, at least for me. Plus I loved aigis so I enjoyed the answer even with all of it's issues.
It's always so much fun to hear people talk about these series. It's seriously so amazing. You can tell whether people prioritize world building/writing or if they prioritize gameplay. I'm in the gameplay camp - if a game plays like shit but has amazing world building, it's not a good game for me. People that tend to rank SMT 4 and Persona 4 highly tend to care more about story, music, and world building. This tier list is clearly gameplay focused so right on.
I wish I could love P5. Really, I think that game absolutely crushes it when it comes to aesthetic and visual flair, not to mention music. Every single JRPG moving forward has its work cut out for it. But the story just feels so totally one dimensional. Every time I poke at it even a little bit, the theme it's trying to explore just falls over like a house of cards. So adults are bad, but society actually the real bad, but the subplot about the PT technically being vigilantes and more or less brainwashing people is dropped the moment the first big lategame twist occurs at the end of the casino. If you want to write a story about how societal expectation causes people to slowly become awful human beings, you have to put a lot of care and nuance into that. They just didn't do enough with the villains to sell that idea to me, so the story just fails to grip me.
They over played their hand. After Madarame it goes from amazing to very "okay" which is why I think the other personas are better. Gameplay is fun though, but most boss battles end up just being stat checks.
@@lionofash7700 Madarame is the only villain who even gets that nuance and you get it in Yusuke's social link first and foremost. You learn that him raising Yusuke was his way of trying to atone for his guilt and that he genuinely grew to care for him. In an "I'm the reason his mother is dead, so the least I can do is try to be his father." It moved him away from the cartoonish evil and pushed him towards "definitely a bad person, but he understands that and is trying to at least do right by the person he wronged."
@@ApexGale Yeah, I mean, my comment was saying everything after that arc feels very... oddly paced and lacked oomph. Though a point that there are only 2 villains you can arguably show ANY sympathy for makes it laughable. Something Strikers would end up fixing.
I agree with you about Devil survivor 1 & 2 but I will say that 2 definitely improved on the gameplay of 1. More ways to customize your party, more demons, and more skills all around.
I feel the Devil Survivor and SMT IV duologies are similar in that the first and second games excel in the story and gameplay respectively… This point goes nowhere
Persona 4 Golden is easily an A tier game for me above P3fes and the original p5. The murder mystery set in a small town, the atmospheric changes that come with each victim, and the general attachment of each character striving to be more than what they are really hits home. The cast is very likeable and has noticeable growth throughout the story and their social links. And I personally think that Golden has top tier soundtracks. I love Persona 5 still but playing P4G after just hit me with a really amazing persona experience. I still have yet to play P3P
@@thatrandomgamer6278 Because there is no legitimate reason why the main party should have thought that he was the killer. He didn’t recognize the people he supposedly threw inside the TV, he apparently murdered for attention, which wouldn’t make sense because he’s would be using a mysterious world that no one would know about. Yet somehow the main party thought that he was the murderer.
My first SMT games was Apocalypse and after falling in love with it, I immediately tried Strange Journey and immediately got whooped into the the next games
Thanks for the Tier Ranking Nyarly. I thought I had played quite a few Megaten games, until I watched this 😳 I'm just glad that someone else shares my love of Overclocked and Strange Journey. Easily my favorites from Atlus.
Okay, I just feel as if Devil Survivor 2 being called an 'Evangelion ripoff' is a massive reach if I ever saw one. Because anyone that actually completed the game (like myself, I did both arcs) would pretty much tell you that you're objectively incorrect with this claim
"Alien invaders! Fight back, fight back!" is the sole connection people make between Devil Survivor 2 and Evangelion, and will base their first-hand experience around that mindset
Honestly I've been in denial for years that I like devil survivor 2 more than 1. The plots definitely better by a mile in 1 but honestly I think the characters are of similarish quality with both going for different angles with its cast and Devil Survivor 2 just has more fun gameplay and general qol features.
I also think 2 is an awesome game I probably would put both in SS, the characters are a lot goofier in 2 but I really like a lot of them especially the alignment reps bar law, and it has some of the coolest bosses ive seen in an SRPG.
I can understand that because: -Better UI, blue looks better than red. -Great and varied soundtrack. -More bosses and with a better passing (Beldur came at the end of a 1/3 of the game vs the septentrions being day 1). -More access to party members, also full party since day 2.
DeSu1 was definitely the better story, but DeSu2 had better gameplay. I don't think anyone is going to argue that. DeSu1 has that air of hopelessness and despair that DeSu2 was missing. DeSu2 had some of the best boss fights, The Septentriones were all interesting boss fights. It honestly comes down to story vs gameplay as to which one is better
Devil Survivor 2 is great but it’s straight up just the plot of Evangelion. I feel like the slow burn style of the first works better for the game as 2 has people going from 0 to 100 on the first day.
@@MegidolErin SMTIV is an SS for me, still my favorite mainline game. The exploration is done right, the difficulty is on point, you get to save anywhere so wiping to a random encounter is not so frustrating and the dungeons aren't linear corridors with teleport traps (not looking at you III)
Of the SMT games I've played so far - 3, 4, 4A, SJ, and DDS1/2 - the DDS duology is definitely my favorite. Hindu myth and post-apocalyptic sci-fi SMT is such a strange combination but by god, they made it work! Would love to see a third one.
Never played a first person dungeon crawler before Strange journey and man, what a journey, didn't think it was possible to live the immersion in a game nowadays as much as i used to be as kid. Dark story ✅ Great characters ✅ Not high school simulator ✅ well designed dungeons ✅ Challenging ✅ hopefully we can get a similar style game from Atlus one day.
I’m really happy that you made an updated tier list since more games have been releasing by Atlus over the past few years and now that I have currently played through a handful of megaten games, I feel as though I can appreciate the older and newer games while watching these videos!
I think Tokyo Mirage Sessions is an underappreciated gem. It is one of the most fun game that I've played. I'm not used to replay games ( I find it boring) yet I've finished this game twice on WiiU and once in Switch. The battle system is very addicting, although the story is... there.
TMS was made for a very specific audience. That audience being me. But for those less involved in the performed industry, I recognize that it's just not going resonate the same way.
My rank from ones I have played: S: p5 Royal, Nocturne A: P3 FES, SMT V B: P5 Strikers I have digital devil saga and raidou and persona 4 and they are next
Thank God, I thought you were gonna put SMT V in like B or C. I don't get how some people don't like the exploration aspect of that game, it literally made the game for me, the exploration was arguably more fun than the combat itself for me lol.
A overall solid list. Always interesting to hear stories on why a piece of media made such a impression on others. Although, some of your reasoning doesn't make sense. P3P is a inferior graphical experience to P3FES, completely turning the 3D overworld into a visual novel, yet P4AU gets flack for its story being visual novel styled. The same can be said with your criticism against P4 & P5 vs. P3, where P3 apparently has this incredibly well written cast of both main and side characters + story, but P4's characters are not as well written and P5's story (factoring in 3rd Semester) is not as well written as P3's. It doesn't make sense when P3's writing has many flaws, terrible delivery, and in general inferior pacing due to Tartarus and the entire Moon cycle. You're obviously entitled to dislike what you dislike, but at least hold games to equal standards to some degree when comparing them.
My unpopular opinion in this list is that P3 FES is as good if not better than P3P, (excluding The Answer). Because P3P cuts out almost all cutscenes and the overworld navigation which for me takes a lot of the inmersiveness out of the game... the option to have a female protagonist and control your characters is cool and all but it doesn't really generate the same feeling as running through the school or the social links cutscenes...
Much of what was wrong with P3FES can be fixed via emulation, I completed FES last week, and added party control mod, and as a casual, boosted my inventory (I don't like to grind too much) a little bit. These changes already makes it better than before. The only advantage of Portable over FES would be a female MC, which no way can be modded lol
The Maken X, Maken Shao and Catherine aren't really Megaten games, they just share staff with Megaten games. My guess is that Atlus wanted a game to test 3d/HD development before developing a Megaten game.
Conceptually, I give the finale of Devil Survivor 2 the biggest points. It's an actual square off against all the character's you met so far and the idea behind HOW they change the reality they live in is very interesting. That being said most of the events leading up to the finale...
I've heard that Maken Shao was made in the first place due to complaints of motion sickness while playing the game in Japan. Not sure how accurate that is though
Persona 3 is overhyped for me, it feels so rough to play with its shit dungeons and gameplay and also terrible pacing. I just remember feeling bored at many point of the game. I'd rather play any Persona game over P3. I agree with your take on DDS though, dope game.
@@Gael-x999 nah 4s cast is without a doubt the weakest of the series unfortunately also the combat is ruined by only having one physical stat. The persona 4 dungeons were basically like tartarus but with a few different skins and colors, barely anything more. Adachi was also laughable as a villain tbh all persona villains are average at best
If I had to make a list I would definitely put kyuuyaku in b or a. I think it’s a game that everyone should play if they want to get into old megaten games
@@renren47618 That 20 level spike and level-based damage sucks. Plus the areas get worse every time. It only has like 6 hours of actual content outside of the admittedly great balancing and collecting of demons. It has overall worse gameplay imo, SMT IV is a million times more replayable
Seeing Persona 5 Strikers so high up made me so happy. It was only my second Persona game after 4 Golden, and I absolutely adored my time with it. As a fan of the Musou-style games like Hyrule Warriors, I felt right at home with the blend of those two gameplay styles. It might be my favorite MegaTen game yet, actually~
Great list although I would not have put SMTV in S tier is because the story/character development isn't as strong, and I really don't like that levels play a huge part in combat strength. Would have put it in A behind SMTIV personally. Otherwise looks like a solid list
I love rhythm games and 3 and 5 are some of my fave games ever, not just in this series but of all time. Casually being thrown in E tier breaks my heart. (Also if you think buying tracks in this game is bad, don't ever play rock band...)
Tokyo Mirage Session was my first SMT and FE game 😂. I saw a commercial of this game and liked the anime style. Played through it without even knowing it was a crossover game. Once i figured out it was a crossover game I started playing both SMT and FE games. 2 of the greatest franchises ever
While I think p3/5 dancing do deserve to be called out for their shitty anti-consumer practices, if we’re looking at them from a current perspective, you can get the bundle of all three games for like, $20, so I don’t think the anti-consumer shit matters anymore. If you look at the games themselves, the gameplay is identical, so the only differences really are the track lists and the lack of a story mode, and to be honest, I don’t think a story mode is really all that important to a rhythm game. I don’t think P4d’s story is particularly good. It’s fine, I guess, but I think the main thing I’m getting out of it is that I like the cast and I like getting to see more of them. Something that is also accomplished by p3/5 dancing’s social link system, which I honestly just think is a better system. Now instead of the gameplay being one long visual novel occasionally broken up by rhythm gameplay, it’s rhythm gameplay occasionally broken up by little cutscenes. It’s just a better feeling gameplay loop. Even if you really liked P4d’s story, I think it’s hardly fair to put the other dancing games 2 tiers lower. They still have basically the same gameplay. At most I think 1 tier is fair.
I wonder if there would've been less backlash to Tokyo Mirage Sessions if they had said it was Persona × Emblem? It has most of the same mechanics like social links, team attack press turn, and ridiculous attacks with party members. Heck, that last one got added to PS5 Royal. I'm betting atleast it could've acted as a gateway to other titles.
Personally I'd put Soul Hackers II in A, mostly because I think the characters really carry it, and I enjoyed the gameplay a fair bit. I honestly like the spin-offs more than mainline, generally speaking. Devil Survivor Overclocked is fantastic, and while Devil Survivor 2's story is not great it did introduce gameplay elements that made the original DeSu 2 better to play than the original DeSu 1. And like you, I adore the Digital Devil Saga games.
Still don't agree with P3P being better than P3F. You lose all of the presentation in P3P which is important to the game and you don't get the continuation of the story ether. There is a reason why so many people are upset Atlus is putting the portable version of P3 over FES. A FemMC and party control doesn't really make up for what you lose. Hell When I played through Fes only 1 party member screwed up once through the whole thing. I just feel Fes would make a much better first impression to players especially since I'm sure with how long the game is will go through it once and I'm guessing it wont be with the FemMC.
Presentation goes a very long way and that's why I'm also dissapointed in portable being ported. It's also not impossable to add features to an old game but I think portable was chosen out of laziness.
@@Nebellune Honestly, Portable is the better balanced version. Skill cards, option for party control to avoid cheesy deaths (Yukari, you're a big fail), FeMC option, Tired status is properly balanced, and being Downed isn't the absolute death sentence it once was. I just hope they remove random inheritance as well and we're golden
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 It's possible to balance the original game better, especially when looking at what mods already exist(rebalance and party control). It'd be more difficult working with something older but they could definitely put the time into making a faithful port along side portable or add some additional features if need be, just look at golden. There were some additional features like skill cards and Femc but neither of those effect the main story and gameplay enough to justify the overall downgraded feeling due to hardware limitations. For me at least though I'm willing to sacrifice gameplay for story/presentation in this instance. No matter what portable always takes me out of the experience knowing what I've played through before. Sure gameplay is better but visual novel format, lack of environment, and removal of sparingly placed cutscenes that emphasize the moments blow. Don't get me wrong that the stuff portable introduced is nice, but I think it's important to deliver the most notable perspective of the games narrative being through the original protagonist and everything that came with it. I don't think there will ever be a definitive answer on what version is best knowing both come with unique benefits so it would've been nice to have both games, unfortunately that isn't the case(for now hopefully).
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 never had issues with yukari or mitsuru, maybe you didn’t use the tactics right? Playing p3p felt longer due to having to control everyone, I liked the brisk pace in fes. Also the female route felt kinda tacked on imo besides a few social links there wasn’t much different
Mirage Sessions really isn´t a bad game on its own, it just wasn´t what people expected, I liked it, gameplay is good, dungeons were kinda different, music was cool.
I personally think Persona 4 deserved a bit more love since P4G is the game that introduced the ability to choose what skills you can pass on to your demons through fusion (or at least your Personas - I didn't take too much time researching the exact history of skill inheritance).
As someone who's played rhythm games very seriously for almost 10 years now, I really liked the persona dancing games. I will not judge the games but rather Atlus for the poor marketing however. Whilst I wasn't the biggest fan of the story persona 4 dancing had, I'm really amazed at how they managed to make such good rhythm games with no prior experience. The modifiers were extremely fun and different from other rhythm games which I never would have expected and the music was amazing. In addition, letting the players see and follow their dance moves separately to learn the dance moves was such a nice feature. However, it is very apparent that they got better at making the maps throughout the development of the games as the DLCs had a lot more complex and fun patterns that weren't present in other maps on the hardest difficulty and some maps were sort of poorly mapped making it obvious which ones they mapped first. If I were to put the persona dancing games on a tier list I would probably put them in A or S tier as they managed to stand out as some of my favourite rhythm games. However, I do not mean to compare them to other megaten games as they are their own genre, and as I mentioned I do not judge them based on Atlus's poor marketing decisions.
I think persona 1 is extremely underrated. I played it last year and thought it was awesome. I haven’t played a lot of megaten games outside of persona, but I am trying to play through Devil survivor. My one issue with Devil survivor is that the bel fights feel like massive jumps in difficulty. Other than that though, the game is really good
which Bel fight where you talking about? i'm assuming Jezebel because that's the one everyone talked about the most, and to that i say carry a demon with Flight and Evil/Chaos Wave.
Eternal Punishment really is better than Innocent Sin in literally every way. Soul Hackers is so 90s cyberpunk it's amazing. Digital Devil Saga (1 & 2) is a masterpiece, just sublime. Catherine❤
honestly id bump down nocturne to a B tier for me personally, The atmosphere is unique to itself and the paths are interesting, but I don't care for the characters and the dungeons I just felt was tedious. The same can be said for V but it's actually fun to explore
As much as I absolutely loved SMT 5's gameplay, it can only carry the game so far when it comes to analyzing it as a whole imo. The story was just abysmal, which is made even clearer by how good the music, art and gameplay are.
I still haven't finished it. Mainly because it's just a bit too punishing on the hardest difficulty setting. I'm just a bit baffled how little story there is (finished Demon Kings Castle and like 5 more hours after that) Even Tokyo Mirage Sessions has more story and character than this game sadly.
Jack bros may be an average game but it’s an amazing virtual boy game. I think the fact that anyone could make a fun game on that system is how it got some notoriety. Good list!
P2:IS on PSP is weirdly easy compared to the original PS1 version (I played the fan translation), and bosses like the Longinus knights were seriously nerfed: I have a recording fighting them and not being able to do anything for many turns as Geistig Blitz (Geisten Blitz in PSP version) caused my whole team to get shock status. (Immunity to lightning doesn't protect from that, you need full magic immunity.) Geistig Blitz also hit every member, not just one like in the PSP version, and you could only target one knight (despite sharing the same general enemy type) with multiple target spells like Maragion. Also, the evil moustache guy in the final dungeon could heal ridiculously well with Vril Blitz and spam invulnerability, making the boss fight last much longer if luck's not on your side. But true, the Hard on PSP version is a joke.
Devil survivor 1 overclocked is absolutely the best game Atlas has ever made. Maybe the best handheld game ever too. It’s such a masterpiece of masterpieces it’s kinda surreal to think that Atlas could just pull something of this quality out of their butt.
Thanks so much for your kind words on Digital Devil Saga, I love those games so much and they deserve a signal boost. My only discrepancy with your list was with P3:For Everyone's Souls, I personally feel The Answer's story adds so much to the game that it deserves better accolades, but I forget how much people aren't into the gameplay (which I somehow ignore the problems of). I also never played P3P and had no idea about the life changes till now. Still don't like the idea of missing the anime cutscenes though. Also I've been trying to avoid Devil Survivor: Overclocked because I have ethical issues with what happens in the game to children, but your recommendation is helping to hammer away at my problems. If it's written as well as you say I want to play.
"...I don't recommend hunting down a physical copy (of Jack Bros.) because that will probobly set you back an entire paycheck or two..." Me: *looks over at my CIB copy and smiles*
This is a yikes for me but I respect your opinion and I'm forever thankful that thanks to one of your videos I played the whole saga including persona games.
I read somewhere that Intelligent Systems didn’t want the “FE x SMT” crossover to be an SRPG. Which is why Atlus went the route they did. Although I personally enjoyed the game more than “SMT V”, which I was pretty disappointed in.
Persona 4 is low imo and same with P2IS, if Persona 5 Strikers can make it to A then the OST and writing of 4 and 2IS is definitely more than enough to make these two in the same tier as 5S. The fact that it's easy (referring to IS) doesn't make it any worse. For P3 I'm even more confused, there wasn't much of an explanation why FES is A but P3P is SS. I played FES after P3P and I found myself enjoying the game more cause the VN presentation ruined the story for me. Like you even said "the story for Arena is just a VN" and it sounded like it was a complaint but the visual downgrade of P3P wasn't mentioned. I also didn't find a problem with the difficulty and overhauls gone from P3P, like yeah it definitely sucked I can't have Megidolaon on any Persona I want and it took more time and effort to max out a Persona's stats but it definitely wasn't to the degree where P3P is two tiers higher. Though we have to remember that what you said and what I said are just opinions and just love what you love :)
personally while Persona Q2 improves a lot on Persona Q, i still prefer regular PQ. curious what others think though, since i think Q2's story is a step or two down from Q's, and while Q2's pacing is better in the midgame, it falls off hard compared to Q at the end, atleast for me.
I also prefer the first PQ, I thought it had a more interesting plot and much better maps. The labyrinths in the second one felt simplified by comparison. PQ is actually what got me into Etrian Odyssey, and I've since become a huge fan of that series too.
Get an early start with Yahaha by signing up for early access at mtchm.de/pgh5o! Signing up is free!
A little off topic, but with how poorly Soul Hackers sould, do you think this could be the end of SMT Spinoff games?
yaw haw haw
@Laxaria this aint hte right thread to ask him questions he trying to promote
Can you do a playthrough of strange journey
I still find it hilarious that so many people have agreed that Catherine is a smt game purely because it has a law/chaos system.
Vincent is in Persona 3 so it’s not completely unfounded.
@@calebgoodman3028 I think him being in persona 3 was just an Easter egg and nothing more.
It’s stupid
Well there is the order/chaos system and there are named goetic demons, these are core parts to Megaten.
Catherine is NOT Megaten, but it's clearly very inspired from that franchise. It does not surprise me at all people have connected them.
"I thought owning Catherine made me hardcore" - Nyarly, 2022
This guy has balls of steel
Yeah, unlike the kiddie titles like Nocturne, digital devil, devil survivor.
@@Mysticgamer
He was too young to play those when they first came out.
@@Mysticgamer Devil Survivor is actually one of the few Megaten games to be rated T despite it being just as dark if not darker than the other games, primarily because both games have small demon rosters with none of the pee pee guys like Mara in them. Cathrine was different than the other games because 99% of parents upon seeing the cover would think that it's porn despite the games having no actual nudity. The other games would get a kid flamed by conservative parents for being "satanic," but a kid might get out of it by concealing the game's true nature. (I called SMT4 "Demon Slayer 4" to my christain friends and they believed me.) Cathrine was worse because in the minds of conservatives porn is WORSE than worshiping the Lord of Darkness, and Cathrine certainly looks like porn from just the cover if you don't know the game is just a puzzle game with no nudity or explicit sex shown on-screen.
@@westonmeyer3110 Devil Survivor was rated T. He could have definitely played that one.
I’ll stan Digital Devil Saga till my dying breath
Samething with Devil Survivor
The offshoots often turn out the best. Fresh ideas blended with the comfortable familiar.
Same
If only the encounter rate wasn't so god awful
Me too
Your complaints about Persona Q are exactly why people love the Etrian Odyssey series. Punishing difficulty, drawing out the map like you're using graphing paper, and varied ways to build your party to explore said dungeons.
To be fair, in Persona Q you don't have classes, neither skill points to make your builds, add the fact that you have Persona skills, wich means less variety for niche skills, like bodygard, links/chases, etc.
I love Etrian Odyssey, but couldn't finish neither of the Q games as they don't offer you too much versatility in the builds. They felt linear and the dungeons were kinda meh, which is supposed to be the strong point of a dungeon crawling game. Also Nyarly is right, I could tank an entire floor or two on some Etrian games, but Q had me discover a shortcut so I could fill my SP back, the persona combat made it way to reliant on resources (and I don't think I got to the point of having the sweet sweet MP/HP recovery skills)
Basically a poor man’s Wizardry lol
PQ just sucks. You're really better off just playing an actual Etrian Odyssey game
So the definitive Persona Q experience involves having played Persona AND Etrian Odyssey?
I gave Strange Journey a shot in a cold winter day and ended up play for 8 hours straight, surely one of my favorite gaming experiences. Loved it.
Good game but I needed to take breaks. The dungeons are quite intense.
I think persona 1 is really underrated
@@chuckchan4127the good about that game is that the plot is so good and memorable that you can quit playing it for months, and picking it up again wouldn't be a problem cause you most likely remember everything about the story. I'm currently on the last sectors, and took a break of like a month after finishing eridanus hahaha
Strange Journey is both long and fun which is the ultimate combo for a game imo.
I picked up Strange Journey and just wanted to try the first 20 minutes to see if I'll like it. I'm 50 hours in now, in the 6th area. Didn't expect to get hooked so fast.
i played persona 4 golden for the first time on pc last year, and without a nostalgia bias i can safely say its not only my favourite megaten game, but my favourite game of all time as of now
Same, I played Persona 5 first but didn't like it nearly as much, there was just something special about Persona 4 Golden that scratched an itch I didn't know I had and now it's my favorite megaten game, even after playing multiple others and favorite game of all time
Same here, except it was the original PS2 version. I played all the persona games back to back, and I think Persona 4 is easily the best.
Also my favourite game of any on this list, though I got a much different kind of enjoyment out of some of the other games. Even with Megaten I feel comparing many of these games is comparing apples and oranges. Very much one of those "what kind of game am I in the mood for" moments.
I agree with it being one of the best, my main reasoning is that while it's quite small in scope, it does what it does to a T and very well. It's a small well oiled machine. Also, I'd say while the characters are not necessarily as "deep" as others in other games their PARTY COHESION as a group is better than pretty much every other SMT entry.
I too am late to the Persona party, 2 decades late lol, am done with P4G on PC and P3FES on emulator, I too am confident to say I'd put those 2 higher, without having a nostalgia factor. Going to play P1, P2IS, P2EP, PQ, PQ2 too via emulation, oh and have already wishlisted P5R on Steam
Back in 2006, I around 9-10 years old, playing a little game called Snowboard Kids on the DS. I loved it because me and my siblings used to rent Snowboard Kids for N64 from our local game-rental store, so having a new version on the go was great for long plane trips. In SKDS, a cute little snowman named Jack Frost and his evil counterpart Black Frost were secret unlockable racers, and they where really fun to play as. I still have the cast shouting ATLUS every time you boot up the game burned into my memory. By 2009 I was turning 13 and had saved enough money for a new DS game. Given that me & my family lived in Alaska, importing games via Amazon was our real only option besides the local Radio Shack for new games. What do I see browsing but that familiar ATLUS logo, on a little DS game called Devil Survivor. Being the edge lord fresh teenager, I bought it on the spot, waited nearly a month, and was surprised to find that lovable snowman again; needless to say I've been a life-long ATLUS fan ever since. I also distinctly remember later that year in James Rolfe's AVGN review of Virtual Boy titles my utter shock of seeing Jack Frost again, alongside the Jack Brothers, but in a game from 1995 - before I was even born!
Shortly thereafter my family moved from Alaska to the mainland, and on our road trip I had gotten Persona 3 Portable. I bought it because of the cool looking skeleton on the cover, alongside myself bearing a strong resemblance to the protagonist. The beginning of the story resonated all too well for me: moving from a familiar town to the middle of nowhere, entering into high school. I feel like my perception of ATLUS titles going forward was spoiled by the incredible quality of these two titles alone, but I love the majority of titles regardless of public opinion. In high school I borrowed my best friend's brother's copy of Persona 4, by 2017 in college I bought the special edition of Persona 5, and again in 2020 as a graduation gift with Persona 5 Royal, which really helped me get through the initial quarantine. ATLUS titles have held a special place in my life, from philosophy & existentialism, to the unrivaled soundtracks and beloved casts.
And all because of a little snowman going Hee-Ho~
Love seeing this heartwarming story meanwhile my introduction was Persona 5 is free on PS+ huh I'll check it out
Lovely story!!! P5R also carried me though quarantine! It was my first MegaTen and it completely blew me away, and have been a ravenous fan since.
wholesome
Snowboard Kids 1 and 2 are some of my all time favorite N64 games.
Hee ho!
Persona 3 may have had a more profound impact on me as a kid because it was one of my earliest experiences with story-driven games or games with deep narratives, but Persona 2 for me takes the cake as one of if not my absolute favorite MegaTens. The gameplay is easy for me to adjust to and Eternal Punishment's gameplay is superb in particular, but it's really the quality of the story especially by PS1 JRPG standards as to why I've held it in such high regard. Tatsuya's one of my favorite JRPG protagonists and Innocent Sin's story especially just balances levity so well by respecting its audience enough to process how complex its themes and character exploration is
P2 IS and EP were the peak of that era of Persona
P3 has good themes but it doesn’t vibe with me the same as P2
@@warriorofthegrandline2y618 Eh, as someone who played the games in order, Persona 3 felt like it was a sequel to Persona 2 in lots of things like atmosphere and story themes while 4 and 5 (though 4 is a bit better than 5 in this regard) felt like they were their own series so I group these 3 games together. I personally found both Persona 2 games to be lacking in good OST, most of it is repetitive and generic with only very few places and bosses that have something that's different and good (both og and remixed OSTs) and this series is known for its OST and that sucks cause I wanted to love Persona 2's OST but the only thing I found good was the writing/story and the unique look it has. It is very dated in gameplay and I absolutely despise EP's combat, it just is a really big turnoff that I have to go through like 4 or 5 menus so I can change what the team even if I need to change only one character's action unlike in the later games and even IS. The simple combat option that turns off the animations definitely made grinding muuuuuch easier especially on an emulator with increased speed and that makes it have the best grinding imo (if you don't need to change any action).
However you can definitely argue for either 2 or 3 to have the best Persona story and writing.
I'd personally rank them like this:
Persona 3
Persona 2 (I know most people prefer EP over IS but I group them as one game since it's one story)
Persona 4
Persona 5
Persona 1
Na both are overrated
I couldn’t get past the insanely boring gameplay tbh and talking to the demons got soooo tedious. I did like the characters and story quite a bit but I gave up playing and just watched the story bits on UA-cam
@@sharebear421 you can finish the game only with the initial personas and there's some cheats that completely disable random encounters
Love to see a new tier list from Nyarly.... I normally hate YT trends but I actually find tier lists to be very fun... especially lists about certain topics like Megaten games which are already heavily divisive and contain a vast array of opinions
While I'd def have some differing opinions.... I respect the hell out of anyone who puts Persona 1 in A tier
Gotta be Nocturne. Bought it when it first game out, based purely on the box blurb on the back of the case. Turning it on that first time, realizing it's something completely new and different from all the other jrpgs I had played before. Never forget your first time.
Good times
Dds clears
For me SMT IV is TOP TIER 😎
Love it too. Personally p5 is not in my top 5, I get attacked for that. I don't love that game. But I do love soul hackers 2. Persona fans specifically can be very mean and gatekeepy
@@jonathansoko1085dont fuck with us p5 fans we haven't played the game yet
@@jonathansoko1085but not all persona 5 fans,i do have interest to other game other than persona like catherine,devil summoner,devil survivor,smt nocturne and V
I'm actually completely mindblown that someone said SMTIV's story was weak and the alignment system also was
IV's story and alignment isn't weak, it's just a bit over hyped compared to what's actually there
That point threw me, Infernal/Blasted Tokyo and Reverse Hills are one of the best arcs in mainline SMT
@@ephemeralbro you can say it's overhyped but it def isnt below 8/10, i felt so invested in the alignments and i could totally see how each character represented their view and why they did considering how they grew up
It’s just recycled from SMT1 and 2
My problem with smt4 is getting hopelessly lost on the map. Every time I play it I end up quitting because I have no clue where to go, I try to look up walkthrough but it doesn’t really help because of the map, and the whole time I’m wandering around endless waves of enemies
SMT 5 "The story is a little bit lacking" What story?
never played the game i guess
@@Gabvrie194 nah you just missed the joke
Agree with almost everything, I’d just Bump up a SMT IV to SS.. that to me has easily the best soundtrack of all SMT titles
I just played it not too long ago and it's definitely an S, but don't think it belongs to SS
@@arzr_erto each their own ✌🏻
I thought I was crazy
the problem with older smt games is the "i would have loved this if i played it when it came out" i wish they would remake most of the old ones :(
I literally played Persona 4 last year and can say it's definitely my favorite out of the persona games. No Nostalgia here
W take. Same here, played it last year and it’s easily the best persona for me. Not even close
Playing P4G for the first time now, First Persona game but I've played a bunch of SMT titles. I like it so far.
I played P4 twice and hated it both times. It feels like playing a really boring and mediocre anime, so coming from 3 I was NOT expecting that.
@@arzr_er happy for the guys who liked persona 4. You on the other hand? Just make sure you speak less
@@yourdad5799 Don't get mad for his opinion. What if he speak more?? Does it affect your love for Persona 4? Weak
P3P and P3F are each good in their own way. but P3F is groundbreaking, where as P3P feels gutted in visual and aesthetic comparison. i just cant reconcile the high rating you give it compared to P3F.
I was unaware until today that the Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP Fan Translation was finished. Thanks for the heads up!!
Devil survivor overclocked was my first ever SMT game and I will agree with you on that placement, it is still one of my favorite games to date and I hope it gets a switch port
We just need a Devil Survivor 3
@@westonmeyer3110 amen to that
I think every Megaten fan can agree that Devil Survivor is one of the best SMT spinoffs by far
@@Windermed Ngl its the G.O.A.T of Megaten
29:16 Imagine saying this to a European Altus fan in the 90s/2000's
North Americans will never understand how bad we had it XD
SMTIV had such an amazing story.
SMT IV story is just reimagination of SMT I story, and ending in SMT IV Apocalypse is very similar to SMT II ending (i mean fight with Satan and YHVH). But I aree SMT IV have great story concept, there are some flaws but overall is really good. Strange Journey and SMT II story is even better.
LMAO no
@@fredalejandro9932 still better than nocturne:)
Better Than 3 and 5 for sure
I know i may have gotten spoiled from Strange Journey but looking back as to how it handled it's story/alignments compared to SMT IV it kinda made the story a bit weak simply because of how neutral-biased it is (and somehow for a neutral bias game it made it hard for you to actually get neutral without going thru alot of BS just to get locked onto neutral) and out of all the other routes Neutral is the only route that offers the most content (which made Law/Chaos weaker imo)
that doesn't mean the cast is bad tho, i definetly do like the dynamic that the IV cast had and it's one of my favorites when it comes to mainline SMT's casts
After playing all the Persona games, I can safely say that Persona 4 is easily my favorite for numerous reasons, but I think the mystery is what really pulled me in. And I love how you’re the one who needs to solve it. The game barely nudges you in the right direction, it has to be you, the player, who figures it all out. Even some dedicated mystery games don’t do that. And then the payoff with the main villain is just so satisfying.
I was just thinking that the tier list needed an update and here we are. :) Great minds think alike
What blows my mind is that you actually have the time to play all these games. I’ve only went thru SMT 3 Nocturne HD Remaster and Strange Journey Redux so far. Currently playing Persona 5 Royal and I’m in love with it!
Persona 1 is my favorite megaten game of all time. No other game in the series can match the atmosphere that it presents. The soundtrack (PS1 version obv) is a masterpiece and it perfectly captures the dark and dreamlike mood that the game’s narrative was going for. The game is definitely lacking in some areas (namely the gameplay and story) but it more than makes up for it by providing an experience that other megaten games just can’t replicate. It is a one of a kind game, for better or worse.
While I don’t think Persona 1 is the best persona game(my profile picture probably fooled you) I think it has the best atmosphere and music of any persona game. It’s just…nailed really well in my eyes and I think the story is pretty interesting. While I don’t think the cast is Persona 2 levels of good they’re people I like to hang around in real life. If you’re looking for a persona game that has the atmosphere of an SMT game I can’t recommend Persona 1 or 2 enough.
To bad the random encounter rate is mind numbing
Not the best, but the one that started it all, and has the most interesting look and feel of the whole series. Love the fact you have both old school weapons and guns.
I loved the vibes but just couldn't stomach the encounter rate and bullshit dungeons honestly
@@roxannebb there's cheats that disable random encounters
You’re a brave man putting smt 5 in S, I loved it too despite the less than gripping story and characters. I enjoyed the battle royal of gods and slaying them all.
I still think smt 4 and SJ are the best because of their top tier characters and world building. They have the best atmosphere and music for me.
On the other hand I though Catherine was kinda trash. The characters were good but the gameplay got boring and the story spiralled into stupidity imo. Lost interest the further in I got.
I wish they released an smt spinoff that had the same storytelling style of fromsoft games, these type of games just beg for that.
@@tendatonda1634 I'd say SMT 4 did they best job of making the world feel lived in with more stories unfolding in the background. SMT 5 felt like it had some glimpses of it too, like the glasses girl that went off to support the fairy village because it fit her character arc. A lot of people don't like that she wasn't very present in the main story but I probably wouldn't have cared about her anyway, might as well use her as a world building tool.
@@tendatonda1634 I do agree tho, they should focus on that aspect more
SMT V will age well.
@@dilanjegatheswaran5394 what makes you say that?
Funny thing about portable is that the change allowing you to attack the turn you get back up is one of the reasons I like FES more. In FES I really like using strategies where you knock down an enemy and then leave down to waste its next turn rather than going for the all out attack. Deciding whether to go for damage or a free turn is a really interesting gameplay element that was lost in Persona 4, and it makes me sad that P3P uses Persona 4's system here. The lack of controllable party members does make it harder to use this strategy, but again, actually using the tactics menu solves that problem
P3 gotta be my favorite, I just love the characters and the story. Also based for appreciating The Answer. The only thing I don't completely agree on is Portable being better than FES. While it has some nice QOL additions and femc, I still think the lack of cutscenes, 3D overworld and The Answer makes the narration not hitting the same way. I think that Portable is better for a second playthrough as femc, but I'd recommend FES for a first experience.
Same
I think the reason he says that is because Portable was his introduction to the persona series, which makes sense that he'd be a bit biased when it comes to that since it's the first version he's played.
@@WindermedI actually regret playing portable first. At the time I did it cause I only had a psp emulator and was a bit scared of not being able to control party members. However you lose so much being unable to experience the overworld and having a lack of cutscenes. My play through with fes was significantly more enjoyable, at least for me. Plus I loved aigis so I enjoyed the answer even with all of it's issues.
It's always so much fun to hear people talk about these series. It's seriously so amazing.
You can tell whether people prioritize world building/writing or if they prioritize gameplay. I'm in the gameplay camp - if a game plays like shit but has amazing world building, it's not a good game for me. People that tend to rank SMT 4 and Persona 4 highly tend to care more about story, music, and world building. This tier list is clearly gameplay focused so right on.
I wish I could love P5. Really, I think that game absolutely crushes it when it comes to aesthetic and visual flair, not to mention music. Every single JRPG moving forward has its work cut out for it.
But the story just feels so totally one dimensional. Every time I poke at it even a little bit, the theme it's trying to explore just falls over like a house of cards. So adults are bad, but society actually the real bad, but the subplot about the PT technically being vigilantes and more or less brainwashing people is dropped the moment the first big lategame twist occurs at the end of the casino. If you want to write a story about how societal expectation causes people to slowly become awful human beings, you have to put a lot of care and nuance into that. They just didn't do enough with the villains to sell that idea to me, so the story just fails to grip me.
They over played their hand. After Madarame it goes from amazing to very "okay" which is why I think the other personas are better. Gameplay is fun though, but most boss battles end up just being stat checks.
@@lionofash7700 Madarame is the only villain who even gets that nuance and you get it in Yusuke's social link first and foremost. You learn that him raising Yusuke was his way of trying to atone for his guilt and that he genuinely grew to care for him. In an "I'm the reason his mother is dead, so the least I can do is try to be his father." It moved him away from the cartoonish evil and pushed him towards "definitely a bad person, but he understands that and is trying to at least do right by the person he wronged."
@@ApexGale Yeah, I mean, my comment was saying everything after that arc feels very... oddly paced and lacked oomph. Though a point that there are only 2 villains you can arguably show ANY sympathy for makes it laughable. Something Strikers would end up fixing.
I agree with you about Devil survivor 1 & 2 but I will say that 2 definitely improved on the gameplay of 1. More ways to customize your party, more demons, and more skills all around.
I feel the Devil Survivor and SMT IV duologies are similar in that the first and second games excel in the story and gameplay respectively…
This point goes nowhere
DeSu2 also made Phys actually viable on MC, and also had pretty cool characters, well, except for one
If only we can ask Igor to fuse P3 FES and Portable together
Persona 4 Golden is easily an A tier game for me above P3fes and the original p5. The murder mystery set in a small town, the atmospheric changes that come with each victim, and the general attachment of each character striving to be more than what they are really hits home. The cast is very likeable and has noticeable growth throughout the story and their social links. And I personally think that Golden has top tier soundtracks. I love Persona 5 still but playing P4G after just hit me with a really amazing persona experience. I still have yet to play P3P
I kinda didn’t like P4G all because of the Mitsuo arc. It just really took me out of it because it felt really stupid
@@goroadachi9489 thats valid. its my least favorite out of all the dungeons.
@@goroadachi9489 What made it feel stupid? It's not my favourite arc but I didn't necessarily notice anything wrong with it either.
@@thatrandomgamer6278 Because there is no legitimate reason why the main party should have thought that he was the killer. He didn’t recognize the people he supposedly threw inside the TV, he apparently murdered for attention, which wouldn’t make sense because he’s would be using a mysterious world that no one would know about. Yet somehow the main party thought that he was the murderer.
@@goroadachi9489 Good point.
My first SMT games was Apocalypse and after falling in love with it, I immediately tried Strange Journey and immediately got whooped into the the next games
Thank you very much for making this Nyarly! I was one of the people who requested it!
Thanks for the Tier Ranking Nyarly. I thought I had played quite a few Megaten games, until I watched this 😳 I'm just glad that someone else shares my love of Overclocked and Strange Journey. Easily my favorites from Atlus.
Okay, I just feel as if Devil Survivor 2 being called an 'Evangelion ripoff' is a massive reach if I ever saw one. Because anyone that actually completed the game (like myself, I did both arcs) would pretty much tell you that you're objectively incorrect with this claim
"Alien invaders! Fight back, fight back!" is the sole connection people make between Devil Survivor 2 and Evangelion, and will base their first-hand experience around that mindset
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Yup, that's basically what happens, and I'm getting sick and tired of it
Honestly I've been in denial for years that I like devil survivor 2 more than 1. The plots definitely better by a mile in 1 but honestly I think the characters are of similarish quality with both going for different angles with its cast and Devil Survivor 2 just has more fun gameplay and general qol features.
I haven't finished as of yet but I find myself enjoying the second game alot more
idk why
I also think 2 is an awesome game I probably would put both in SS, the characters are a lot goofier in 2 but I really like a lot of them especially the alignment reps bar law, and it has some of the coolest bosses ive seen in an SRPG.
I can understand that because:
-Better UI, blue looks better than red.
-Great and varied soundtrack.
-More bosses and with a better passing (Beldur came at the end of a 1/3 of the game vs the septentrions being day 1).
-More access to party members, also full party since day 2.
DeSu1 was definitely the better story, but DeSu2 had better gameplay. I don't think anyone is going to argue that.
DeSu1 has that air of hopelessness and despair that DeSu2 was missing. DeSu2 had some of the best boss fights, The Septentriones were all interesting boss fights.
It honestly comes down to story vs gameplay as to which one is better
Devil Survivor 2 is great but it’s straight up just the plot of Evangelion. I feel like the slow burn style of the first works better for the game as 2 has people going from 0 to 100 on the first day.
“You can play it on the go” yea look up the prices for p3p p2 and p1 for psp.
Your point about Innocent Sin makes sense to me, doing a severely limiting challenge run, but it being really easy, is a big difficulty issue
Devil Survivor, Persona 3 and Strange Journey, my first 3 SMT games, and all being SS
I really got lucky, huh.
Not really considering it all goes downhill from there lol
Yeah uhh…that’s not lucky. Now you can only be let down that it’s not as good from here lol
@@kingteddieP4 Eeeh, opinions are subjective. I went from SJR to IV and despite having complaints with the gameplay, I never felt let down
@@mr.sellout6284 form your own damn opinions bot
@@MegidolErin SMTIV is an SS for me, still my favorite mainline game. The exploration is done right, the difficulty is on point, you get to save anywhere so wiping to a random encounter is not so frustrating and the dungeons aren't linear corridors with teleport traps (not looking at you III)
Of the SMT games I've played so far - 3, 4, 4A, SJ, and DDS1/2 - the DDS duology is definitely my favorite. Hindu myth and post-apocalyptic sci-fi SMT is such a strange combination but by god, they made it work! Would love to see a third one.
Never played a first person dungeon crawler before Strange journey and man, what a journey, didn't think it was possible to live the immersion in a game nowadays as much as i used to be as kid.
Dark story ✅
Great characters ✅
Not high school simulator ✅
well designed dungeons ✅
Challenging ✅
hopefully we can get a similar style game from Atlus one day.
well designed dungeons - not sure I agree there, felt like a slog
I’m really happy that you made an updated tier list since more games have been releasing by Atlus over the past few years and now that I have currently played through a handful of megaten games, I feel as though I can appreciate the older and newer games while watching these videos!
I think Tokyo Mirage Sessions is an underappreciated gem. It is one of the most fun game that I've played. I'm not used to replay games ( I find it boring) yet I've finished this game twice on WiiU and once in Switch.
The battle system is very addicting, although the story is... there.
The game was censored heavily and the story took a big hit
The story is pretty much Fire Emblem 1 which is yeah, there.
The game is good, but those dungeons were so frustrating at times
There’s too many MegaTen games, call me when Atlus makes a MegaTwenty game.
TMS was made for a very specific audience. That audience being me. But for those less involved in the performed industry, I recognize that it's just not going resonate the same way.
You aren't a real MegaTen fan if you haven't played Ronde yet
Ronde is pretty much one of the MegaTen games of all time
Strange journey is peak fiction
My rank from ones I have played:
S: p5 Royal, Nocturne
A: P3 FES, SMT V
B: P5 Strikers
I have digital devil saga and raidou and persona 4 and they are next
the fact that you put smt 1 and 2 on the same tier as jack bros is the funniest shit ever
Thank God, I thought you were gonna put SMT V in like B or C. I don't get how some people don't like the exploration aspect of that game, it literally made the game for me, the exploration was arguably more fun than the combat itself for me lol.
A overall solid list. Always interesting to hear stories on why a piece of media made such a impression on others.
Although, some of your reasoning doesn't make sense. P3P is a inferior graphical experience to P3FES, completely turning the 3D overworld into a visual novel, yet P4AU gets flack for its story being visual novel styled.
The same can be said with your criticism against P4 & P5 vs. P3, where P3 apparently has this incredibly well written cast of both main and side characters + story, but P4's characters are not as well written and P5's story (factoring in 3rd Semester) is not as well written as P3's. It doesn't make sense when P3's writing has many flaws, terrible delivery, and in general inferior pacing due to Tartarus and the entire Moon cycle.
You're obviously entitled to dislike what you dislike, but at least hold games to equal standards to some degree when comparing them.
WHAT?:?!?!?
i know you know SMT but telling that SMT 4 has less story than 3/Noc is crossing a line my dude
My unpopular opinion in this list is that P3 FES is as good if not better than P3P, (excluding The Answer). Because P3P cuts out almost all cutscenes and the overworld navigation which for me takes a lot of the inmersiveness out of the game... the option to have a female protagonist and control your characters is cool and all but it doesn't really generate the same feeling as running through the school or the social links cutscenes...
S - persona
B - persona without a heart
C - persona without a soul
E - Persona 5/3 Dancing
Much of what was wrong with P3FES can be fixed via emulation, I completed FES last week, and added party control mod, and as a casual, boosted my inventory (I don't like to grind too much) a little bit. These changes already makes it better than before. The only advantage of Portable over FES would be a female MC, which no way can be modded lol
The Maken X, Maken Shao and Catherine aren't really Megaten games, they just share staff with Megaten games. My guess is that Atlus wanted a game to test 3d/HD development before developing a Megaten game.
Agreed
Conceptually, I give the finale of Devil Survivor 2 the biggest points. It's an actual square off against all the character's you met so far and the idea behind HOW they change the reality they live in is very interesting. That being said most of the events leading up to the finale...
I've heard that Maken Shao was made in the first place due to complaints of motion sickness while playing the game in Japan. Not sure how accurate that is though
Maken X certainly gave me simulator sickness! Although 3rd person doesn't necessarily alleviate that problem either...
Persona 3 is overhyped for me, it feels so rough to play with its shit dungeons and gameplay and also terrible pacing. I just remember feeling bored at many point of the game. I'd rather play any Persona game over P3. I agree with your take on DDS though, dope game.
Completely agree P3 is so overrated by all these megami UA-camrs
@@Gael-x999 Also, random inheritance. I despise that mechanic so much
P3 > P4 by a long shot. Characters and story especially although P5 is the most refined
@@sharebear421 P3 is overrated trash boring characters boring antagonists boring dungeon Tartarus, P4 is far superior
@@Gael-x999 nah 4s cast is without a doubt the weakest of the series unfortunately also the combat is ruined by only having one physical stat. The persona 4 dungeons were basically like tartarus but with a few different skins and colors, barely anything more. Adachi was also laughable as a villain tbh all persona villains are average at best
If I had to make a list I would definitely put kyuuyaku in b or a. I think it’s a game that everyone should play if they want to get into old megaten games
Soul Lackers 2 in the same tier as P4 is insanity.
Game is pretty freakin bad, looks and feels like it should have came out when smt 3 did and its still so much worse.
I saw the last one yesterday without even knowing this one was coming
V is in S while IV is in A, I’m so baffled
Respect opinions man
I agree tbh
IV: Story
V: Gameplay
And for me Gameplay > Story
So...
@@renren47618 That 20 level spike and level-based damage sucks. Plus the areas get worse every time. It only has like 6 hours of actual content outside of the admittedly great balancing and collecting of demons. It has overall worse gameplay imo, SMT IV is a million times more replayable
@@fesyuki I do, I just disagree with his (that is not disrespectful), I hope you can also respect mine dog
Seeing Persona 5 Strikers so high up made me so happy. It was only my second Persona game after 4 Golden, and I absolutely adored my time with it. As a fan of the Musou-style games like Hyrule Warriors, I felt right at home with the blend of those two gameplay styles. It might be my favorite MegaTen game yet, actually~
Great list although I would not have put SMTV in S tier is because the story/character development isn't as strong, and I really don't like that levels play a huge part in combat strength. Would have put it in A behind SMTIV personally. Otherwise looks like a solid list
I love rhythm games and 3 and 5 are some of my fave games ever, not just in this series but of all time. Casually being thrown in E tier breaks my heart. (Also if you think buying tracks in this game is bad, don't ever play rock band...)
P4G is my current favorite game of all time, so it's sad for me to see it even below A tier (although I do respect your opinion).
It's the only persona game I personally agree with, but I think it's better than 1. Don't really get the love for that game.
P4G is one of my favourite JRPGs of all time along..
P4G is mediocre
I guess I kinda got tired in Nocturne because how quickly my party became the same setup for almost the entire game
Tokyo Mirage Session was my first SMT and FE game 😂. I saw a commercial of this game and liked the anime style. Played through it without even knowing it was a crossover game.
Once i figured out it was a crossover game I started playing both SMT and FE games. 2 of the greatest franchises ever
While I think p3/5 dancing do deserve to be called out for their shitty anti-consumer practices, if we’re looking at them from a current perspective, you can get the bundle of all three games for like, $20, so I don’t think the anti-consumer shit matters anymore. If you look at the games themselves, the gameplay is identical, so the only differences really are the track lists and the lack of a story mode, and to be honest, I don’t think a story mode is really all that important to a rhythm game. I don’t think P4d’s story is particularly good. It’s fine, I guess, but I think the main thing I’m getting out of it is that I like the cast and I like getting to see more of them. Something that is also accomplished by p3/5 dancing’s social link system, which I honestly just think is a better system. Now instead of the gameplay being one long visual novel occasionally broken up by rhythm gameplay, it’s rhythm gameplay occasionally broken up by little cutscenes. It’s just a better feeling gameplay loop.
Even if you really liked P4d’s story, I think it’s hardly fair to put the other dancing games 2 tiers lower. They still have basically the same gameplay. At most I think 1 tier is fair.
I wonder if there would've been less backlash to Tokyo Mirage Sessions if they had said it was Persona × Emblem? It has most of the same mechanics like social links, team attack press turn, and ridiculous attacks with party members. Heck, that last one got added to PS5 Royal. I'm betting atleast it could've acted as a gateway to other titles.
Great vid, I always respect your takes because you aren't afraid to have an opinion. Definitely gotta give Digital Devil and Devil Survivor a spin.
Personally I'd put Soul Hackers II in A, mostly because I think the characters really carry it, and I enjoyed the gameplay a fair bit.
I honestly like the spin-offs more than mainline, generally speaking.
Devil Survivor Overclocked is fantastic, and while Devil Survivor 2's story is not great it did introduce gameplay elements that made the original DeSu 2 better to play than the original DeSu 1. And like you, I adore the Digital Devil Saga games.
A lot of these games are very divisive. It's nice to see how different people think about different games in the franchise.
Still don't agree with P3P being better than P3F. You lose all of the presentation in P3P which is important to the game and you don't get the continuation of the story ether. There is a reason why so many people are upset Atlus is putting the portable version of P3 over FES. A FemMC and party control doesn't really make up for what you lose. Hell When I played through Fes only 1 party member screwed up once through the whole thing. I just feel Fes would make a much better first impression to players especially since I'm sure with how long the game is will go through it once and I'm guessing it wont be with the FemMC.
Presentation goes a very long way and that's why I'm also dissapointed in portable being ported. It's also not impossable to add features to an old game but I think portable was chosen out of laziness.
@@Nebellune Honestly, Portable is the better balanced version. Skill cards, option for party control to avoid cheesy deaths (Yukari, you're a big fail), FeMC option, Tired status is properly balanced, and being Downed isn't the absolute death sentence it once was. I just hope they remove random inheritance as well and we're golden
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 It's possible to balance the original game better, especially when looking at what mods already exist(rebalance and party control). It'd be more difficult working with something older but they could definitely put the time into making a faithful port along side portable or add some additional features if need be, just look at golden. There were some additional features like skill cards and Femc but neither of those effect the main story and gameplay enough to justify the overall downgraded feeling due to hardware limitations. For me at least though I'm willing to sacrifice gameplay for story/presentation in this instance. No matter what portable always takes me out of the experience knowing what I've played through before. Sure gameplay is better but visual novel format, lack of environment, and removal of sparingly placed cutscenes that emphasize the moments blow. Don't get me wrong that the stuff portable introduced is nice, but I think it's important to deliver the most notable perspective of the games narrative being through the original protagonist and everything that came with it. I don't think there will ever be a definitive answer on what version is best knowing both come with unique benefits so it would've been nice to have both games, unfortunately that isn't the case(for now hopefully).
@@Nebellune One thing is for certain, random inheritance is a terrible mechanic and I am glad it is not in newer Megaten titles
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 never had issues with yukari or mitsuru, maybe you didn’t use the tactics right? Playing p3p felt longer due to having to control everyone, I liked the brisk pace in fes. Also the female route felt kinda tacked on imo besides a few social links there wasn’t much different
Mirage Sessions really isn´t a bad game on its own, it just wasn´t what people expected, I liked it, gameplay is good, dungeons were kinda different, music was cool.
Persona 4 golden is my favorite game so that is if triple s for me.
It's impressive how well this aligns with my own tastes. Extra props for Putting P1 above IS too.
I personally think Persona 4 deserved a bit more love since P4G is the game that introduced the ability to choose what skills you can pass on to your demons through fusion (or at least your Personas - I didn't take too much time researching the exact history of skill inheritance).
Devil Survivor was the first that I had played with that mechanic, but aparently in last bible III it existed too.
I don't get why these megami UA-camrs hate on P4
@@Gael-x999 In a series full of bangers, "bad" is often relative.
@@indecision6326 na fuk that shit persona 4 deserves respect all these UA-camrs walk all over it like trash
@@Gael-x999 my ass. P4 is one of the most beloved Persona games, might only be beaten by Royal.
As someone who's played rhythm games very seriously for almost 10 years now, I really liked the persona dancing games. I will not judge the games but rather Atlus for the poor marketing however. Whilst I wasn't the biggest fan of the story persona 4 dancing had, I'm really amazed at how they managed to make such good rhythm games with no prior experience. The modifiers were extremely fun and different from other rhythm games which I never would have expected and the music was amazing. In addition, letting the players see and follow their dance moves separately to learn the dance moves was such a nice feature. However, it is very apparent that they got better at making the maps throughout the development of the games as the DLCs had a lot more complex and fun patterns that weren't present in other maps on the hardest difficulty and some maps were sort of poorly mapped making it obvious which ones they mapped first.
If I were to put the persona dancing games on a tier list I would probably put them in A or S tier as they managed to stand out as some of my favourite rhythm games. However, I do not mean to compare them to other megaten games as they are their own genre, and as I mentioned I do not judge them based on Atlus's poor marketing decisions.
I think persona 1 is extremely underrated. I played it last year and thought it was awesome. I haven’t played a lot of megaten games outside of persona, but I am trying to play through Devil survivor. My one issue with Devil survivor is that the bel fights feel like massive jumps in difficulty. Other than that though, the game is really good
Yeah Persona 1 is very underrated.
which Bel fight where you talking about?
i'm assuming Jezebel because that's the one everyone talked about the most, and to that i say carry a demon with Flight and Evil/Chaos Wave.
I never played SMT or Persona. Now I started with Strange Journey Redux. Dunno whether it was the best choice for starting SMT.
Eternal Punishment really is better than Innocent Sin in literally every way. Soul Hackers is so 90s cyberpunk it's amazing. Digital Devil Saga (1 & 2) is a masterpiece, just sublime. Catherine❤
honestly id bump down nocturne to a B tier for me personally, The atmosphere is unique to itself and the paths are interesting, but I don't care for the characters and the dungeons I just felt was tedious. The same can be said for V but it's actually fun to explore
As much as I absolutely loved SMT 5's gameplay, it can only carry the game so far when it comes to analyzing it as a whole imo. The story was just abysmal, which is made even clearer by how good the music, art and gameplay are.
I still haven't finished it. Mainly because it's just a bit too punishing on the hardest difficulty setting.
I'm just a bit baffled how little story there is (finished Demon Kings Castle and like 5 more hours after that)
Even Tokyo Mirage Sessions has more story and character than this game sadly.
Jack bros may be an average game but it’s an amazing virtual boy game. I think the fact that anyone could make a fun game on that system is how it got some notoriety. Good list!
P2:IS on PSP is weirdly easy compared to the original PS1 version (I played the fan translation), and bosses like the Longinus knights were seriously nerfed: I have a recording fighting them and not being able to do anything for many turns as Geistig Blitz (Geisten Blitz in PSP version) caused my whole team to get shock status. (Immunity to lightning doesn't protect from that, you need full magic immunity.) Geistig Blitz also hit every member, not just one like in the PSP version, and you could only target one knight (despite sharing the same general enemy type) with multiple target spells like Maragion. Also, the evil moustache guy in the final dungeon could heal ridiculously well with Vril Blitz and spam invulnerability, making the boss fight last much longer if luck's not on your side.
But true, the Hard on PSP version is a joke.
27:48 Actually it was Omega Force who developed P5 strikers
Devil survivor 1 overclocked is absolutely the best game Atlas has ever made. Maybe the best handheld game ever too. It’s such a masterpiece of masterpieces it’s kinda surreal to think that Atlas could just pull something of this quality out of their butt.
Thanks so much for your kind words on Digital Devil Saga, I love those games so much and they deserve a signal boost.
My only discrepancy with your list was with P3:For Everyone's Souls, I personally feel The Answer's story adds so much to the game that it deserves better accolades, but I forget how much people aren't into the gameplay (which I somehow ignore the problems of). I also never played P3P and had no idea about the life changes till now. Still don't like the idea of missing the anime cutscenes though.
Also I've been trying to avoid Devil Survivor: Overclocked because I have ethical issues with what happens in the game to children, but your recommendation is helping to hammer away at my problems. If it's written as well as you say I want to play.
What happens to children in it?
I'm not a Persona 3 guy but I respect your top tier selections
"...I don't recommend hunting down a physical copy (of Jack Bros.) because that will probobly set you back an entire paycheck or two..."
Me: *looks over at my CIB copy and smiles*
This is a yikes for me but I respect your opinion and I'm forever thankful that thanks to one of your videos I played the whole saga including persona games.
I read somewhere that Intelligent Systems didn’t want the “FE x SMT” crossover to be an SRPG. Which is why Atlus went the route they did. Although I personally enjoyed the game more than “SMT V”, which I was pretty disappointed in.
Persona 4 is low imo and same with P2IS, if Persona 5 Strikers can make it to A then the OST and writing of 4 and 2IS is definitely more than enough to make these two in the same tier as 5S. The fact that it's easy (referring to IS) doesn't make it any worse.
For P3 I'm even more confused, there wasn't much of an explanation why FES is A but P3P is SS. I played FES after P3P and I found myself enjoying the game more cause the VN presentation ruined the story for me. Like you even said "the story for Arena is just a VN" and it sounded like it was a complaint but the visual downgrade of P3P wasn't mentioned. I also didn't find a problem with the difficulty and overhauls gone from P3P, like yeah it definitely sucked I can't have Megidolaon on any Persona I want and it took more time and effort to max out a Persona's stats but it definitely wasn't to the degree where P3P is two tiers higher.
Though we have to remember that what you said and what I said are just opinions and just love what you love :)
Now that Persona 3 and 4 remasters are coming out we need a remaster of the DDS games.
personally while Persona Q2 improves a lot on Persona Q, i still prefer regular PQ.
curious what others think though, since i think Q2's story is a step or two down from Q's, and while Q2's pacing is better in the midgame, it falls off hard compared to Q at the end, atleast for me.
I also prefer the first PQ, I thought it had a more interesting plot and much better maps. The labyrinths in the second one felt simplified by comparison. PQ is actually what got me into Etrian Odyssey, and I've since become a huge fan of that series too.