I'm sorry if you explained in the video and I missed it, but can you explain why it makes more sense depending on the draw method? I bought a bow for fun and kinda just jumped in, not putting any thought into proper technique. Im apparently doing a kind of hybrid- right load, Mediterranean draw. Now that I've discovered that I really enjoy it, I wanna take it more seriously. If it will improve my performance, or make learning easier, I'd like to break any bad habits before they get ingrained.
Social: Then, when you run out of arrows you can throw the bow. I actually figured this out in boot camp - the chief advantage of the semi-automatic pistol over the revolver is that you can drop the magazine and have two things to throw. Full of cartridges the magazine is heavier and will potentially cause more damage. The "shooters paradox" would be - do you fire off the magazine first, hoping to scare off your opponent with the noise, or do you drop the magazine first hoping to cause more damage? (I actually did learn to shoot the Model 1911 after awhile. A long while.)
@@old_guard2431 Running out of arrows? Then you make something wrong. If you throw correctly, the arrows fly in a curve and then come back to you. Noob! ;-)
@@old_guard2431 You clearly dont know what you're talking about. The revolver is much louder than the semi automatic, and can be turned into not one, not two, but over five throwable objects with the simple unscrewing of a few parts. Your 1911 has a magazine and a pistol, but a real man's gun has the cylander, grip, barrel, hammer, spent brass, and of course, the screws.
I've heard that this quote is misattributed to Socrates. Supposedly, what he said was closer to "When I don't know something, I don't say I know." Which seems even more appropriate here.
I'm glad you covered this, as you may remember I told you that I loose arrows over the thumb. I can loose arrows both sides. I just find a two finger draw over the thumb comfortable. My grandmother taught me to find what was comfortable for me. People tell me I'm doing it wrong and I tell them I'm an alternative shooter. Lol I think after that you may remember me. I'm glad you set people straight about over hand and over thumb styles of archery. Great video again, keep them coming 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
As an American and a former airline employee the fact is MOST Americans have never been out of America and have been brainwashed to believe that what they see in America is the ONLY and Right way to do things... Where as the rest of the World is aware that they are part of the world and tend to understand that different cultures do things differently. Thanks for trying to open the minds of some. Also, even your "slow and clumsy" looks pretty smooth!
I've tried both Meditarranean and thumb draw, and found thumb draw is the best method when doing instictive archery. Or maybe that's just because I prefer using horsebow hahaha...btw, that's a beautiful bow.
Very good to know. In martial arts, you see the same kind of arguments as to how and why of one style is better, rather than seeing if those techniques work in reality. I think that seeing what the end result is, is the important thing. If Muhammad Ali decided to use George Formans' style, perhaps his outcomes would be different. Hopefully my logic isnt too convoluted. I'm in the collecting information stage of getting into primitive archery. So when it comes to archery, I look for people who know what they are talking about. Finding those who are "in the know", you have to do your own research, making your own decisions. With you, NuSensei, I don't see someone with an agenda. I see someone who wishes to share freely information garnered by a lot of practice and experience. One man, who practices Primitive Archery , and freely shares it, is a 73 year old gentleman from Canada who has been in archery since he was a kid. His name is Gary Chinne. Thanks again for your insight.
What I find interesting is that Mongolian traditional archers, when shooting on foot, often shoot with the arrow on the left side of the bow (for right handed shooters) despite using thumb draw. I suspect that this is because you can get the arrow more aligned with your eye, and being on foot, you don't need your string side hand to be holding the arrow in place. Here's a video of it; notice how they draw the string a few inches below where the arrow is nocked: ua-cam.com/video/R5jLMOzsClQ/v-deo.html
i shoot on the right side of the bow and use the Mediterranean style draw because i feel like i can easily notch the arrow held in my palm , my hand can then slide down it and naturally fall on the the bow string with the three fingers, so the notching of the arrow and the drawing of the bow is all one continous movement .
TheGrizzlybear456 prolly you would like to check out the persian draw, arrow on the right side just that we only pulling with 2 fingers while the index finger is pointing forward ;)
@@duongtieuta223 Persian is useful when you shoot on horse, you can hold an arrow with your index finger (like with thumb draw). On foot it doesn't matter much if its two or three fingers.
Thank you, for not taking a side. I instinctively started shooting my bows the right side, I found it natural and I also saw it in documentaries of african tribes. I think it's better for instinctive bowshooting, the way I prefer it.
It depends on the oscilation of the string in draw. So for mediterranean archery=left side and for thumb draw=right side. But in archery everything is possible, so I have seen Mogolians doing thumb draw with arrow on the left side and Native American archers performing some kind of tertiary grip, who never care about the side.....
In my case, my bow is not a bow (made of two plastic flag pole, the small ones, tied together) the left side doesn't always work, the right side gives more consistent shots for me. The arrows are plastic straw with the flags rolled, held with rubber band as weight at the tip with no such fletchings. It's just for bedroom archery.
It's good to be reminded that there may be other right ways. I shoot a takedown bow with the shelf and rest on the left, so I put my arrow on that side. But my daughter's youth bow has a rest on either side. I've been teaching her as a left handed shooter to do the mirror image of what I do, but if she wants to explore other ways, they may work better for her.
Thank you for the clarification, i have allways used the right side with the thumbdraw.. and found it odd when i saw alot of left side with the 3 fingers, it was very foreign to me. Not wrong just foreign.
The reason for putting the arrow on the left side in the mediterranean draw is when you pull back the three fingers of the right hand on the string will rotate the string to the right. If you put the arrow on the right side the string twist will make the arrow fall of the shelf or hand. On the left side it can't fall off. With the thumb draw, there is no string twist so you can use either side. I use the left because that is what I'm used too.
@@banningrandomaccsftw Getting rid of the 1st wife cost me 1/2 my stuff. Getting rid of a 2nd wife will cost me another 1/2, leaving me with a 1/4 of my original stuff. In the end, changing wives becomes diminishing returns.
Funny, I did just put the arrow on the left side. I had no idea, love it when I find out I have American roots. Thank you for the culture info, love learning more than one way to do anything.
I always liked your attitude. And I have learned a lot from your videos. I approach it with an open mind. The only wrong is wrong drawing form wrong muscle and bone alignment. But that is no different than lifting a weight wrong. Of course it does go without being said that it depends on the bow you are using. You wouldn't thumb draw a compound bow. Nor would you want to use a quick release caliper on a horse bow. I always approached it with an open mind. Different bows are made to be draws and shot different ways. Form follows function. I like learning from you.
Just tried it on the right side and arrows were consistently off to the right by a foot at 30 feet. Total novice here so I’ll stick to the left side for now. Thanks for great information.
THANK YOU!!! I just had that kind of talk with my cousin, i was proudfully showing him my new hobby and my new bows (a olympic/target style bow with complete setup of stabilizers and so on - shot mediterran - and a mongolian horsebow - shot thumbdraw - ) and he immediately began ranting how the olympic bow is historically on the "wrong" side and how western media did hurt the "true historically correct" archery and how back quivers and having the arrow on the left side as a right hand archer is only an invention by hollywood and of course always only cites lars andersson (no offense, i like lars, he is very entertaining)... Got me quite heated up trying to explain that it depends on what style of archery, what culture of archery and most importantly what kind of draw technique while he kept scoffing me off... sheesh... Thanks Sensei!
But isn't it still wrong if you are a left handed archer and putting the arrow on the side where the body of the plunger is? Considering the plunger will be on the left side now.
I would say having the arrow on the right side would potentially be better in a combat situation, like on horseback. Then the arrow doesn't have to go over the bow to be fired. Therefore you could potentially fire arrows faster. Would be interesting to try
I use a horse bow and like to mix all styles together, but i am very comfortable combining Mediterranean draw with my arrow on the far side of the bow.
I have a feeling that it depends on the bow too, my tiny camp bow has a flat side going left side and a very lopsided right side, I remember someone using it and going "why doesn't this seem to sit right" and I was like "try the other side" and he was like "oh, look at that", some bows are just made that way. So I didn't say its wrong, the bow did.
You can shoot 3 fingers on the left or right side and you can shoot thumb on the left and right side of the bow it comes down to personal preference and i dont understand why people are making a big deal of it.
HI!. i am from the philippines (south east asia) and our ancestors the "ita" or "aeta" in english. the very first aborigines (as our history have said) in our country dating a few thousand years ago and who still lives today. we have a historical record of a native tribe that defeated the spanish colonizers in the 15th century who wore plate armor and padded leather armor. the invaders was lead by Ferdinand Magellan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan the tribe leader was Lapu-Lapu a very famous hero in our country. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu there are many different branches of the said tribe but basically one family ancestry. they also place and shoots their arrows on the right. actually when i was younger back in the 1980's while playing with a bow, we all place it on the right too... nobody thought us, it was just instinct on where to put it and how comfortable it was at shooting and sighting. there is a video where you can see them shooting a bow and arrow. ua-cam.com/video/UOlJ0ozjg50/v-deo.html if you look at it today, its still on the right. dont mind the white people in the video, they were guests :) ua-cam.com/video/Gei9FKaWUbw/v-deo.html opo pinoy po ako. taga mindanao. indi ako nagsisinungaling. bisaya ko. taga mindanao.
For a thumb-draw though, it might be a good idea to use a ring, due to the concentration of force on one digit vs. two or three. But you do you; you are more experienced at archery in general than I am.
I am sure you explain why in another video. In each case, the string will deflect a bit off of the tips of the fingers (or the tip of the thumb) toward the side the arrow is nocked. This may reduce the "Archer's Paradox" effect (?)
I much prefer shooting with the thumb draw on the right side of the bow! I never liked the Mediterranean left side finger draw, because it feels so unnatural and the string hits your forearm, requiring the arm-guard.
I think there is an argument to be made that it is right to shoot an eastern bow from the right side and a european bow from the left. Id say they go together like the tumb va finger release. I am nit saying this is the only correct way, but that there is an argument to be madd for: eastern bow, left side, thumb release, and estern bow, left side, finger release.
The shelf on my recurve is on the left side, therefore it is the proper way, and all other ways are stupid. /s I made some PVC bows before I got a real one, I used my thumb as a rest. Having to use the left side shelf screwed with me for a little while, but that’s just because I had developed a method for the right side.
It's kinda funny. I have always had this image in my head of a (probably really bad, I haven't done much archery) sort of hybrid style, with a sort of western finger draw but having the arrow on the outside of the bow, and then I decide to check out actual styles of archery and there's apparently this massive discourse and brawl over how it's supposed to be done.
Part of it is that there's a much simpler solution: the Slavic draw, which uses the fingers but pins the arrow on the bow using the index finger. It's described in historical texts and has been proven to work very effectively and efficiently. It's a compromise between thumb and finger shooting, but is very good in its own right. The problem with switching sides with the Mediterranean draw is that it introduces new problems, such as the arrow coming off more easily, for no advantage. While people might insist on doing it that way, it's actually sensible to polarise archery methods to thumb/outside and finger/inside because those two methods are generally accepted as the most appropriate combinations with virtually no problems, while switching sides with either method means having to introduce more workarounds - again, for no benefit.
I shoot in this way, I am a left hand draw, right hand holding bow. And I keep the arrow on the left side of the bow with a 3 finger draw. I grew up shooting my slingshot in the same way, as I kept my ammo on my left side so it was a fast reload. I do the same thing now with my arrows in a quiver on my left side. Even though I'm right handed, it just feels natural. I know it would be considered wrong or weird but it's comfortable to me and I make my shots. 🤗
I've been shooting bows since I was a kid and putting the arrow on the outside is just a much more natural position to me. Putting the arrow on the inside is very awkward.
Great info! May I ask what bow that is and any details you wish to share. I am getting back into archery after many years and I have an interest in Korean or similar bows but haven't found a great source for them. Thanks in advance for your time.
I like to nock my arrow onto the bow instead of the string. Release the bow instead of the string to shoot the arrow because the bow has more mass to drive the projectile forward 🙃
Hunted whitetail deer from 12 to 22 with a compound bow... then joined the Marine Corps till 2004, then became a city boy.;.. looking at getting into "natural", or true shooting and was wondering if using the 3 finger draw with arrow on right side of bow terribad?
New controversy: Dominant hand should be holding the bow... As a beginner who has been using both hands from the start, I think it is easier to shoot with the dominant hand holding the bow... Although, I feel there is very little difference when I go back and forth, switching hands at will... But I really question why there is no controversy about the bow hand, since it seems to make basically no difference and the opposite of what is traditionally taught seems to be the best...
The controversy is actually around whether people should shoot based on eye dominance or hand dominance, notably for cross-dominant shooters. The debate centers around whether shooting is primarily based on aiming (therefore eye dominance is more important) or whether it's more reliant on process (which favours hand dominance). As for which hand to use, generally the dominant hand is more dexterous, which is more important for the finesse required in drawing and releasing, whereas the hand holding the bow isn't as important.
Totally agree not knowing about Asiatic archery is very Comon. I have shot most of my life and never knew about thumb draw. Since learning I find thumb draw is much easier and makes more sense. In my opinion. Especially with my preferd shooting style.
I prefer thumb release, more naturel for me : it seems it does not "block" nor my muscles or my joints. And short eastern bows are really beautiful and fun to shoot... can't resist! ^^
I'm a self taught right handed recreational archer and I naturally developed a technique of shooting from the right side of the bow with a draw that's closest to Slavic (Mediterranean but with index finger straight along the arrow instead of holding the string above the arrow). I can shoot this way while moving or even upside down without issue. I never thought of trying different techniques or thumb release because I wasn't aware these exist (but, until recently, I wasn't aware one can aim the bow either so what do I know 🤷♂️). Now, I'm not saying this is the only correct way of shooting a bow but it rises a question. From a perspective of somebody who naturally came up with "less efficient" technique and became pretty efficient at it, what are the benefits of trying to do it your way (i.e. Mediterranean from the left side, thumb from the right)?
I'm not sure what you mean by "efficient". Slavic draw is well known and works. The reason why Medi draw on the left and thumb draw on the right is normal is because the archer is less prone to knocking the arrow of the bow. With a Medi draw, the displacement causes by the fingers opening tends to flip the arrow to the right (for a right-handed archer), so placing it on the left keeps it on the bow. For a thumb draw, placing the arrow on the left means that the index finger will push the arrow off to the left. There are ways to circumvent these weaknesses, but these are not widespread or practical methods. The Slavic draw is a way to allow the archer to use fingers while shooting off the right, but it's discussed amongst traditional shooters that it's a compensation at best, and it still suffers from similar deflection issues as Mediterranean, though partially mitigated by the index finger placement. The thumb draw is generally regarded as the cleaner release.
@@NUSensei I meant "less effective", not "less efficient" - my bad. So, if I understand you correctly, in my case (I have no issues with arrows falling of the bow) there's no reason to switch to a different technique (other than curiosity). I tried different draws at home for about an hour and most feel awkward for me because I'm so used to my own way of drawing but I yet have to try actual shooting when I have a chance. Thank you for explaining. Have an awesome week!
To add; was watching the archery championships in Mongolia on TV, and everybody (that I could see) was shooting with the thumbdraw but with the arrow on the "mediterranean side". They seem to be doing pretty well... got me curious as to the reasoning behind it (if it's other than just tradition/stick to what you know).
Have you done a video on the advantages or disadvantages of the different sides / draws and why certain types work better or not with certain bow types? I mean WHY does it make more sense to place the arrow on the right side with a thumb draw and the left with a finger draw? Also, is one style easier to learn for beginners ? And if you did it the other way round, like shot a longbow using a thumb draw on the left how big a negative impact would it have on your draw?
Thumb draw tends to turn arrow to the left (assuming a right handed shooter) therefore putting onto the right side of the bow makes more sense. As arrow is pushed into the bow. If you put it on left side of bow and did thumb draw you'd be turning the arrow off the bow. the opposite applies to the Mediterranean draw. There are exceptions but this is generally the case. Hope that helps.
The thumb draw was originally used with the shorter "horse bows" where the string angle was more acute (tighter) and limited room for more fingers. Currently bows can be shot either way, with the warning that string rolling does occur, clockwise from the top for med. draws and counter-clockwise for the thumb.
Great video. I wonder if you could have a custom made olympic recurve with a right handed grip but the shelf on the right side. Would that be possible? Having thumb shooters using the thumb draw in olympic style archery would be interesting. They would probably use leather thumb guards instead of rings because technically the ring is a shooting aid.
i hold the bow in left hand and always have my arrow rest on the far right side i do this because drawing is faster you are genurally faster that side and drawing from your back is aswell where as the left side if i was to draw from my back i would need extra time to equip the arrow on the left side where as the right i would need less time i fav this but not many good bows support this what i mean is they make the arrow rest on the left side instead of the right side so i am forced to use bows like his in the video that has no arrow rest if you ask me having the bow is left hand and arrow on the right side is far better and i encurage you to do the same but there is no fight way only perfer
There are thousands of depictions of European historical archers shooting off both sides with both finger and thumb draw, also shooting recurves as well. There is no definitive Easter or Western styles, there are just different styles.
Historical art must be viewed critically. Artists at the time were not portraying technically accurate depictions of archery or lacked the means to do so, and these depictions are full of errors and impossibilities. I discuss the issues in this video: ua-cam.com/video/OgOmA2zyq08/v-deo.html I'd like to know which Western European sources depict a thumb draw.
@@NUSensei Norman archers are usually depicted shooting recurves of right hand side pulling with thumb. I am sure all methods of pulling a bow have been employed world wide. As kids we shot eachother with thumb draw, no one taught us it just felt natural. The three finger draw was only taught to me as a young adult when visiting an archery club, it felt very clumsy and strange at first. There was also the pinch grip but thumb over was better.
@@adders45 Which specific sources show Norman archers using a _thumb_ draw with recurves? Each source should be evaluated. Even if these sources show what is claimed, it doesn't mean the artist was correct in illustrating it. Commonality doesn't imply fact, as erroneous details and depictions are often copied and repeated (see: modern pop culture references to weapons). Arrow side is dubious because of artist limitations and errors, but I've never seen a Norman thumb draw with a recurve bow, let alone their "usual" depiction as such. What you learned as a kid and prefer now is entirely irrelevant to the historical development of archery - this is not a self-insert fantasy. As for what methods were used worldwide, we have to substantiate them with corroborating evidence, not assume they had access to and did what we would do. That would be a historical fallacy. What you found natural or clumsy as a novice in the 21st century has no relevance to historical archery 500 years ago. The thumb draw for Eastern styles is distinctly corroborated with not only art almost universally showing the thumb draw, but also archaeological evidence of thumb draws and extensive texts that document the technique in very clear detail, covering from Ottomans and Arabs to Chinese, Korean and Japanese. If thumb draw was commonly used by the Normans, we would expect a number of thumb rings to be found and preserved. We have _none._ The earliest text at the time is quite late in medieval history (1545), but the descriptions exclusively discuss finger draw with the arrow on the left side (not directly stated by clearly implied with no exceptional case). If a combination of methods was used, it would be reflected in the very detailed texts, which go into specifics on variations in methods and why they are effective or ineffective, but no European text mentions any use of the opposite side of the bow or the thumb draw. While absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence, we do not have evidence outside out unreliable and erroneous artwork that thumb draws were used in Western Europe. Even those visual sources that place the arrow on right side show a clear finger draw method.
@@NUSensei I beg to differ, I also would imagine that the Roman influence still held sway before the English war bow. Rome copied it's archery from the middle east, I have read this and they also shot recurve style bows. Also may I say that the thumb draw has a few advantages over the finger draw, the biggest being the control of both the arrow and the string, this feeling more natural. As a child we were mad for making bows and shooting arrows. The knocks on our home made arrows were not deep, so pulling the thumb over and a finger on top helped to keep arrow and string in contact. When someone showed me the Asiatic style pull, I said yes that's how we did it as kids. It does feel a more natural way to hold the arrow and pull the string.
@@adders45 What are you begging to differ from? I asked for sources. You said there were "thousands" of illustrations of Normans using a thumb draw. Show me. You are the one who brought up Normans. I didn't bring up Rome. Rome itself wasn't known for its archers; they recruited their archers from Crete and Asia. That's not in dispute. That does not have any relevance to how English longbowmen shot in a different time and place, a thousand years later. It's a huge stretch to suggest that a Syrian serving in the Roman army in 100 would mean that that their style of archery would "hold sway' in England. The Romans barely held sway in Britain, let alone an exotic archery style that wasn't even used in Rome proper or its provinces in Europe. If you have any interesting sources to provide for evaluation, I'd be interested in having a look. I'm otherwise not interested in going in circles with what you did as a kid.
Which way is better? Or if neither is better what advantage does one have over the other? Also why wouldn't some people shoot from whatever side suits their contacts. For example what if shooting on the right side of the bow is more accurate but shooting on the left is faster.
Hi there, I only recently started getting interested in the whole left or right side debate. What you are saying here is something I learned some time ago when I learnt about mounted archery. That’s when I assumed, okay left side is Western, right side is eastern. But... Historically, what’s the evidence that for example a longbow was drawn from the left side and not the right side?
I covered the historicity in this video: ua-cam.com/video/6ztX-jO_DVA/v-deo.html. Basically, there's no evidence from written sources that demonstrates how a longbow can be shot from right (as a right-handed shooter). The only sources are artwork, which may be unreliable and incorrect.
@@NUSensei art isn't unreliable goddam if it's so prevalent in so many arts there is obviously some authenticity just because people never wrote down about spoons but you only see them in art doesn't make them fake
@@jzjzjzj That does not make logical sense. A mistake that is commonly repeated does not make it correct. Modern illustrations, films and video games always misrepresent things. Does that make it true?
I'm better at the western because I have the most practice with it but I've practiced a bit with the other style as well. Back in my highschool days I got good at speed shooting western style because I threaded the arrow between the bow & string rather than moving the whole thing to the other side to knock it.
Question:> can you shoot an left handed bow (left handed riser) with the right hand(string plucking hand) if you are using an wisket bisket? Would seem loading arrows for an "righty", would be easier.
I got to this late! But I was actually directed to this video because I had the same kind of question on r/Archery, but vice-versa. In all things I do, I'm a left-handed shooter. But I've always used right-handed bows (arrow goes on the left side of the grip), and generally shot right-handed. But when I shoot left-handed with my righty compund, it's a lot easier for me in terms of being able to engage my back and being able to knock and draw in a smoother motion, especially with a whisker biscuit. So I would say just try it! If you shoot the same, or improve, then YES, continue to do so.
hi, i have a question, i was curious about fast shooting helding 3 or more arrows in not just for show, but in ancient conflict, why in medieval battle are never rappresented these techniques in drawings? from what i know, the english longbowman just shoot an arrow at a time and they train all their life, even when the enemy are very close, because you have to be very precise and very strong to pull a warbow because a slim deviation and the arrow doesn't pierce the armor... or i missing someting? maybe this tecnique was valid when the soldier were light armored? or in eastern contries(but even there, they shoot just one arrow)?
This is because "fast" shooting is currently misunderstood as being a normal part of historical archery. It wasn't. As a technique, sources do tell us that it was performed and how, but it was a specialised method used only in specific circumstances. You will more likely come across references to shower shooting in Arab and Turkish sources, for example. Outside of that, the normal method of using bows, as illustrated in most sources, is with a single arrow at a time and not rapidly.
Oh yea. So your calling me out!... Are you calling me out? ......Well I guess you've called me out "Pench". , from an otakau weeabo, a new archery gakusei, and subscriber. Dommo Arigoto Gozaimasu, Sensai NU.
Funny thing is that Lars popularized thumb draw in the west but he himself shoots Mediterranean release on the right side :) More than this I saw mongolians shoting on left side with thumb draw. Is it historically correct or just it's just incorrectly reinvented - I don't know but it seems everything is possible.
Mongolian archery is a "reinvented" form, inspired by modern Western archery. Lars kind of doesn't shoot Mediterranean, but instead uses a modified Persian draw using the fingers rather than the thumb.
Nice video. I really like your work. I do have a question I'm familiar with both styles, thanks to my coach, I'm from the states and prefer a compound bow. But I love to learn. My question is the glove your wearing is it designed to shoot both western and thumb draw?
This particular glove is a thumb-draw glove, as it only covers the thumb and index finger. There are gloves, such as the Zahra glove, that can do both.
Hey Nusensei, is a bow with the riser cut out on the right side, is it a left handed bow? I have a bow like that and shoot it ambidextrously. Since I am right handed, i find shooting right handed easier, but any canter in the bow and the arrow falls off, so my technique right handed is less forgiving. Left handed, I get fatigued because it's a fifty pound compound bow with a 50 percent let off. I was originally taught a cheekbone or temple anchor and sighting with one eye, which i found difficult, and remembered the John smith from pocahantas, both eyes open. Since most of my shooting is recreational not exceeding 20 meters or so, I wanted to get another bow anyway, preferably a recurve, just so i don't sink arrows so deep into a makeshift target. Thanks for reading. Also I hear you are an English teacher, Do you do peer reviews on novel writing from amateur writers. I'm writing a story about time travel, and when I finish i would love to have a scholar's point of view. I enjoy the videos, especially the history and the archery techniques. Thank you for reading if you do.
Talking about the hold of the arrow, have you tried and what’s your opinion on the hold given to the orcs in lord of the rings, palm facing outward away from face....so I heard it was a way in history...not sure if it was true of not? 🤔
Its much easier to reload an arrow when its in the right side and you don't need to drop the bow down after shooting instead swerved it left same follow through will happen.That is why this is effective in war time. Today it's much better to go on the left side because its a sport and you have a lot of time to make your shot accurate.
With the bows they used in war, what slowed you down the most wasn't nocking the arrow so much as how many arrows per minute your muscles could physically handle (and also limited by arrow resupply), so which side you shot on didn't really affect speed of shooting.
I'd like to shoot both, since I'm interested in Kyudo, which is thumb-draw, but at the moment I only have a Samick Polaris, so have to do Mediterranean.
Hey NUSensei, I have a question regarding archery: So I never done any sort of archery outside of taking a handful of beginner courses that lasted for about an hour each. In all instances I was given a bow that you shot using your three fingers and shot from the left side of the bow. But, I was always interested in getting touch with my Korean heritage and wanted to shoot a Korean style bow. But, from what I have researched, there is NO ONE in New York City area that shoots with a Korean-Style bow. There are handful of archery clubs that offer beginner lessons with the three finger drawn bow and from what I heard, have fantastic coaches. So given the very limited coaching opportunities I have with the Korean style bow, would it be advisable to develop my fundamentals of archery with the three finger draw bow first and then get my hands on a Korean style bow? Or, are the fundamentals in the thumb drawn bow and the three finger draw bow similar enough that it really doesn't matter?
There are a couple of interesting things to keep in mind for your situation. Firstly, fundamentals are mostly the same, but the *technique* is substantially different. You wouldn't lose anything by starting off with any kind of archery, but thumb draw and finger draw diverge in their technique quite early on, even though the fundamentals are similar. Secondly, Korean archery is actually very specific in its style too, even different from other thumb draw styles that can be adopted and adapted. There are very particular things that are unique or more specific to Korean archery, including grip and stance, which is quite different to Western archery. You might find yourself learning something entirely exclusive if you start from a non-Korean style.
@@NUSensei Thank you so much for your reply. What you said does pose a quite a bit of challenge. I am stuck in a situation where I can just go off and do non-Korean style of archery or rely heavily upon video/DVD materials for teaching me techniques. I am not very comfortable with the idea of having DVD as my teacher, I've done Martial Arts long enough to know DVD is no replacement for a qualified coaching giving you an active feedback. While I enjoyed my experience with archery well enough that I can enjoy shooting non-Korean style, but I feel like my enjoyment of archery would significantly increase if I learned the Korean style. I will give it a bit deeper thought, but thank you again for your comment! :)
Y Kim Hi! I’m in New York City and I shoot Chinese style, which is pretty similar to Korean style except we don’t use hand torque/khatra and we prefer smaller grips. The biggest issue really is space since Korean trad archers shoot at targets 145 meters away or so.Check out Floyd Bennet Field where I think you can go to 70 meters. Also check out Gotham Archery in Brooklyn and Manhattan. The owner of the ranges is interested in all archery styles and stocks the Samick SKB And Mind 50, though if you want a more traditional style Korean bow with a proper grip and siyahs, the Nomad KTB from Freddie Archery is a great choice.
@@aeliascent1174 Hi! Thanks for letting me know. I heard good things about Gotham Archery and I might give them a visit in the future if that is the case. And... you are totally right, Korean archery does a lot of long distance shot that really boggles my mind! I visited Queens archery for my beginner lessons but I never got around to asking them about Korean style of archery.
Y Kim The staff at Queens Archery are very compound oriented. I’ve found them dismissive of Eastern styles. I try my best not to go there. They’re the kinds of people who dismiss anything they’re not familiar with. They also only let you shoot at 20 yards, which isn’t the best for a beginner with an Asiatic bow.
I saw a mongolian archery competition and they shot left side when standing and right when riding but both with thumb draw. not sure why. also what are the dangers of overdrawing a bow like shooting 30 or 32 inch arrows out of a modern bow that says 28 inch draw in the manual?
Modern Mongolian archery competition is actually heavily inspired by modern Western competition. The style used today in Mongolia is not a historical style; their method is more akin to stringwalking with the arrow on the left side and the thumb further down the string. As for longer arrows - there's no connection between shooting a longer arrow and the 28" draw length measurement on the bow if you're not drawing past 28" (in other words, if you're using a long arrow but have the same draw length). Furthermore, most bows can be safely drawn past 28", as that is only the industry standard for measuring draw weight and not necessarily a maximum draw length. However, some traditional bows may only be made to be drawn to a certain length, in which case you should heed these maximum ratings.
@@NUSensei that makes sense. just starting out but really enjoy your videos. Best of luck going forward. also thanks for the clarification I panicked when i thought i bought a bow that wouldn't fit me.
Thanks for commenting on this NuSensei! Not to detract from the video, but I believe your bow is the "Advanced Manchu 'Yarha' " from Alibow, right? And the arrows are from them as well? If so, how do you find the bow shoots, and have you had any issues with the straightness of their bamboo arrows? I love my Crimean Tatar bow from them, but I wasn't happy with all the arrows I received from them (some need straightening).
Video is only at 720p due to a rendering error. You're not missing much.
How dare you not make a 4K video!!!!
Jk, great vid bro. Thanks!
I'm sorry if you explained in the video and I missed it, but can you explain why it makes more sense depending on the draw method?
I bought a bow for fun and kinda just jumped in, not putting any thought into proper technique. Im apparently doing a kind of hybrid- right load, Mediterranean draw.
Now that I've discovered that I really enjoy it, I wanna take it more seriously. If it will improve my performance, or make learning easier, I'd like to break any bad habits before they get ingrained.
If you put the arrow in the left dide of the bow, it's not wrong, it's just not right.
Lol
😂 oh my gosh
Nice one man lol
YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!
You are clearly supposed to throw the arrows!
You're welcome.
Exactly. Arrows are supposed to be MUCH longer, too. Increased throwability.
Social: Then, when you run out of arrows you can throw the bow. I actually figured this out in boot camp - the chief advantage of the semi-automatic pistol over the revolver is that you can drop the magazine and have two things to throw. Full of cartridges the magazine is heavier and will potentially cause more damage.
The "shooters paradox" would be - do you fire off the magazine first, hoping to scare off your opponent with the noise, or do you drop the magazine first hoping to cause more damage?
(I actually did learn to shoot the Model 1911 after awhile. A long while.)
@@old_guard2431 Running out of arrows? Then you make something wrong. If you throw correctly, the arrows fly in a curve and then come back to you. Noob! ;-)
@@old_guard2431 You clearly dont know what you're talking about.
The revolver is much louder than the semi automatic, and can be turned into not one, not two, but over five throwable objects with the simple unscrewing of a few parts. Your 1911 has a magazine and a pistol, but a real man's gun has the cylander, grip, barrel, hammer, spent brass, and of course, the screws.
Just make them longer and use an atlatl 😂
Socrates: "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"
I've heard that this quote is misattributed to Socrates. Supposedly, what he said was closer to "When I don't know something, I don't say I know."
Which seems even more appropriate here.
I didn't know that! 😁
@@theamazinggoldfish8713 I see what yo did here :D
I have to remind myself of that every now then. Sometimes I just get the urge to criticize, thinking I know better
I'm glad you covered this, as you may remember I told you that I loose arrows over the thumb. I can loose arrows both sides. I just find a two finger draw over the thumb comfortable. My grandmother taught me to find what was comfortable for me. People tell me I'm doing it wrong and I tell them I'm an alternative shooter. Lol I think after that you may remember me. I'm glad you set people straight about over hand and over thumb styles of archery. Great video again, keep them coming 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
i shoot the same way. i only learned it was wrong today. it has rocked my wolrd tbh
My only Archery Annoyance is you drew that arrow back so many times and never let it loose at the end. :)
I know! Whenever I see a drawn bow, my brain decides it needs to hear the 'ploink-thud' relief.
As an American and a former airline employee the fact is MOST Americans have never been out of America and have been brainwashed to believe that what they see in America is the ONLY and Right way to do things... Where as the rest of the World is aware that they are part of the world and tend to understand that different cultures do things differently. Thanks for trying to open the minds of some. Also, even your "slow and clumsy" looks pretty smooth!
How do you manage to keep track of what most Americans do or know?
It's the same in Europe tbh. They even think Europe is a continent.
I've tried both Meditarranean and thumb draw, and found thumb draw is the best method when doing instictive archery. Or maybe that's just because I prefer using horsebow hahaha...btw, that's a beautiful bow.
Thumb release was useful because it holds the arrow on bow while riding, it doesn't move around.
Me too..we are the same..i learn both style Mediterranean and thumb draw and i feel thumb draw is better
Thanks for clearing that up nice to see someone has some brains in this world love the Content 😎👍💯
As long as the projectile makes it downrange accurately and the archer doesn't get tired, anything goes.
Very good to know.
In martial arts, you see the same kind of arguments as to how and why of one style is better, rather than seeing if those techniques work in reality. I think that seeing what the end result is, is the important thing.
If Muhammad Ali decided to use George Formans' style, perhaps his outcomes would be different.
Hopefully my logic isnt too convoluted.
I'm in the collecting information stage of getting into primitive archery. So when it comes to archery, I look for people who know what they are talking about.
Finding those who are "in the know", you have to do your own research, making your own decisions.
With you, NuSensei, I don't see someone with an agenda. I see someone who wishes to share freely information garnered by a lot of practice and experience.
One man, who practices Primitive Archery , and freely shares it, is a 73 year old gentleman from Canada who has been in archery since he was a kid.
His name is Gary Chinne.
Thanks again for your insight.
Not gonna lie, I don't even do archery, but watching these videos have given me so much information about archery
What I find interesting is that Mongolian traditional archers, when shooting on foot, often shoot with the arrow on the left side of the bow (for right handed shooters) despite using thumb draw. I suspect that this is because you can get the arrow more aligned with your eye, and being on foot, you don't need your string side hand to be holding the arrow in place. Here's a video of it; notice how they draw the string a few inches below where the arrow is nocked:
ua-cam.com/video/R5jLMOzsClQ/v-deo.html
i shoot on the right side of the bow and use the Mediterranean style draw because i feel like i can easily notch the arrow held in my palm , my hand can then slide down it and naturally fall on the the bow string with the three fingers, so the notching of the arrow and the drawing of the bow is all one continous movement .
TheGrizzlybear456 prolly you would like to check out the persian draw, arrow on the right side just that we only pulling with 2 fingers while the index finger is pointing forward ;)
@@duongtieuta223 Persian is useful when you shoot on horse, you can hold an arrow with your index finger (like with thumb draw). On foot it doesn't matter much if its two or three fingers.
@@mkluczyk only thing we need now is a horse to ride on xD
Thank you, for not taking a side. I instinctively started shooting my bows the right side, I found it natural and I also saw it in documentaries of african tribes. I think it's better for instinctive bowshooting, the way I prefer it.
It depends on the oscilation of the string in draw. So for mediterranean archery=left side and for thumb draw=right side. But in archery everything is possible, so I have seen Mogolians doing thumb draw with arrow on the left side and Native American archers performing some kind of tertiary grip, who never care about the side.....
In my case, my bow is not a bow (made of two plastic flag pole, the small ones, tied together) the left side doesn't always work, the right side gives more consistent shots for me. The arrows are plastic straw with the flags rolled, held with rubber band as weight at the tip with no such fletchings. It's just for bedroom archery.
It's good to be reminded that there may be other right ways. I shoot a takedown bow with the shelf and rest on the left, so I put my arrow on that side. But my daughter's youth bow has a rest on either side. I've been teaching her as a left handed shooter to do the mirror image of what I do, but if she wants to explore other ways, they may work better for her.
Thank you for the clarification, i have allways used the right side with the thumbdraw.. and found it odd when i saw alot of left side with the 3 fingers, it was very foreign to me. Not wrong just foreign.
The reason for putting the arrow on the left side in the mediterranean draw is when you pull back the three fingers of the right hand on the string will rotate the string to the right. If you put the arrow on the right side the string twist will make the arrow fall of the shelf or hand. On the left side it can't fall off. With the thumb draw, there is no string twist so you can use either side. I use the left because that is what I'm used too.
Always enjoy hearing the latest rant, good topic, well done.
Neither side is wrong, unless you wife is watching you; then anything you do is wrong.
Thats true
Baaaaahahaaa.... 100%
Get a new wife
@@banningrandomaccsftw Getting rid of the 1st wife cost me 1/2 my stuff.
Getting rid of a 2nd wife will cost me another 1/2, leaving me with a 1/4 of my original stuff.
In the end, changing wives becomes diminishing returns.
One side is right.
Funny, I did just put the arrow on the left side. I had no idea, love it when I find out I have American roots. Thank you for the culture info, love learning more than one way to do anything.
I always liked your attitude. And I have learned a lot from your videos. I approach it with an open mind. The only wrong is wrong drawing form wrong muscle and bone alignment. But that is no different than lifting a weight wrong. Of course it does go without being said that it depends on the bow you are using. You wouldn't thumb draw a compound bow. Nor would you want to use a quick release caliper on a horse bow. I always approached it with an open mind. Different bows are made to be draws and shot different ways. Form follows function. I like learning from you.
I am just getting into archery In did not know about the thumb draw That is pretty cool.
Just tried it on the right side and arrows were consistently off to the right by a foot at 30 feet. Total novice here so I’ll stick to the left side for now. Thanks for great information.
yeah if you have no practice at something you are going to bad at it lol
THANK
YOU!!!
I just had that kind of talk with my cousin, i was proudfully showing him my new hobby and my new bows (a olympic/target style bow with complete setup of stabilizers and so on - shot mediterran - and a mongolian horsebow - shot thumbdraw - ) and he immediately began ranting how the olympic bow is historically on the "wrong" side and how western media did hurt the "true historically correct" archery and how back quivers and having the arrow on the left side as a right hand archer is only an invention by hollywood and of course always only cites lars andersson (no offense, i like lars, he is very entertaining)... Got me quite heated up trying to explain that it depends on what style of archery, what culture of archery and most importantly what kind of draw technique while he kept scoffing me off...
sheesh...
Thanks Sensei!
One side is definitely wrong. It’s the side where the body of the plunger is.
Until you meet a left handed shooter...
@@Ragnafyr agree
But isn't it still wrong if you are a left handed archer and putting the arrow on the side where the body of the plunger is? Considering the plunger will be on the left side now.
That one was good sir :D
@@donovanteo4465 I think he means it's wrong to be left handed
I would say having the arrow on the right side would potentially be better in a combat situation, like on horseback. Then the arrow doesn't have to go over the bow to be fired. Therefore you could potentially fire arrows faster. Would be interesting to try
Hi!
I like the way you explain things.... also big thumbs up for keeping the videos free of rants and pointless comments!
I use a horse bow and like to mix all styles together, but i am very comfortable combining Mediterranean draw with my arrow on the far side of the bow.
I have a feeling that it depends on the bow too, my tiny camp bow has a flat side going left side and a very lopsided right side, I remember someone using it and going "why doesn't this seem to sit right" and I was like "try the other side" and he was like "oh, look at that", some bows are just made that way. So I didn't say its wrong, the bow did.
You can shoot 3 fingers on the left or right side and you can shoot thumb on the left and right side of the bow it comes down to personal preference and i dont understand why people are making a big deal of it.
"The older I get the more I know..........about how little I really know."
HI!. i am from the philippines (south east asia) and our ancestors the "ita" or "aeta" in english.
the very first aborigines (as our history have said) in our country dating a few thousand years ago and who still lives today.
we have a historical record of a native tribe that defeated the spanish colonizers in the 15th century
who wore plate armor and padded leather armor.
the invaders was lead by Ferdinand Magellan.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan
the tribe leader was Lapu-Lapu a very famous hero in our country.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu
there are many different branches of the said tribe but basically
one family ancestry. they also place and shoots their arrows on the right.
actually when i was younger back in the 1980's while playing with a bow,
we all place it on the right too... nobody thought us,
it was just instinct on where to put it and how comfortable it was at shooting and sighting.
there is a video where you can see them shooting a bow and arrow.
ua-cam.com/video/UOlJ0ozjg50/v-deo.html
if you look at it today, its still on the right. dont mind the white
people in the video, they were guests :)
ua-cam.com/video/Gei9FKaWUbw/v-deo.html
opo pinoy po ako. taga mindanao. indi ako nagsisinungaling.
bisaya ko. taga mindanao.
Where can I buy a glove like the one you are using in this video?
For a thumb-draw though, it might be a good idea to use a ring, due to the concentration of force on one digit vs. two or three.
But you do you; you are more experienced at archery in general than I am.
I am sure you explain why in another video. In each case, the string will deflect a bit off of the tips of the fingers (or the tip of the thumb) toward the side the arrow is nocked. This may reduce the "Archer's Paradox" effect (?)
I much prefer shooting with the thumb draw on the right side of the bow! I never liked the Mediterranean left side finger draw, because it feels so unnatural and the string hits your forearm, requiring the arm-guard.
I think there is an argument to be made that it is right to shoot an eastern bow from the right side and a european bow from the left. Id say they go together like the tumb va finger release. I am nit saying this is the only correct way, but that there is an argument to be madd for: eastern bow, left side, thumb release, and estern bow, left side, finger release.
I've only see English Longbow archer paintings , for exam shoot from the right side.
Archers in the West and the East shot the bow on the right side. It is illogical and an over generalization to say that it was only done in the East.
there's many paintings of archers using it on the right side with a two/three finger grip
The somewhat novel idea Lars Anderson demonstrated is that you can use the Mediterranean grip on the right side as well.
thats what i do
The shelf on my recurve is on the left side, therefore it is the proper way, and all other ways are stupid. /s
I made some PVC bows before I got a real one, I used my thumb as a rest. Having to use the left side shelf screwed with me for a little while, but that’s just because I had developed a method for the right side.
It's kinda funny. I have always had this image in my head of a (probably really bad, I haven't done much archery) sort of hybrid style, with a sort of western finger draw but having the arrow on the outside of the bow, and then I decide to check out actual styles of archery and there's apparently this massive discourse and brawl over how it's supposed to be done.
Part of it is that there's a much simpler solution: the Slavic draw, which uses the fingers but pins the arrow on the bow using the index finger. It's described in historical texts and has been proven to work very effectively and efficiently. It's a compromise between thumb and finger shooting, but is very good in its own right.
The problem with switching sides with the Mediterranean draw is that it introduces new problems, such as the arrow coming off more easily, for no advantage. While people might insist on doing it that way, it's actually sensible to polarise archery methods to thumb/outside and finger/inside because those two methods are generally accepted as the most appropriate combinations with virtually no problems, while switching sides with either method means having to introduce more workarounds - again, for no benefit.
I shoot in this way, I am a left hand draw, right hand holding bow. And I keep the arrow on the left side of the bow with a 3 finger draw. I grew up shooting my slingshot in the same way, as I kept my ammo on my left side so it was a fast reload. I do the same thing now with my arrows in a quiver on my left side. Even though I'm right handed, it just feels natural. I know it would be considered wrong or weird but it's comfortable to me and I make my shots. 🤗
I've been shooting bows since I was a kid and putting the arrow on the outside is just a much more natural position to me. Putting the arrow on the inside is very awkward.
I've been proficient in archery for 40 years... and I've learned so much from you. Thank you.
Great info! May I ask what bow that is and any details you wish to share. I am getting back into archery after many years and I have an interest in Korean or similar bows but haven't found a great source for them. Thanks in advance for your time.
I like to nock my arrow onto the bow instead of the string. Release the bow instead of the string to shoot the arrow because the bow has more mass to drive the projectile forward 🙃
I like to hold the bow with my left foot and draw with my right hand. That way I can use a 175lb bow with a 60" draw length. 😂🤣
Hunted whitetail deer from 12 to 22 with a compound bow... then joined the Marine Corps till 2004, then became a city boy.;.. looking at getting into "natural", or true shooting and was wondering if using the 3 finger draw with arrow on right side of bow terribad?
Of the combinations possible, this is not one of them. The direction the fingers will always result in the arrow being pulled away from the bow.
I want to shoot on the right side
I went to a place with bows and there were all arrow rests on the left side.
Time to make my own bow
Or use a left handed bow (if you are right handed)
New controversy: Dominant hand should be holding the bow... As a beginner who has been using both hands from the start, I think it is easier to shoot with the dominant hand holding the bow... Although, I feel there is very little difference when I go back and forth, switching hands at will... But I really question why there is no controversy about the bow hand, since it seems to make basically no difference and the opposite of what is traditionally taught seems to be the best...
The controversy is actually around whether people should shoot based on eye dominance or hand dominance, notably for cross-dominant shooters. The debate centers around whether shooting is primarily based on aiming (therefore eye dominance is more important) or whether it's more reliant on process (which favours hand dominance). As for which hand to use, generally the dominant hand is more dexterous, which is more important for the finesse required in drawing and releasing, whereas the hand holding the bow isn't as important.
Totally agree not knowing about Asiatic archery is very Comon. I have shot most of my life and never knew about thumb draw. Since learning I find thumb draw is much easier and makes more sense. In my opinion. Especially with my preferd shooting style.
I agree... Now when it comes to driving on the other hand there is a right and wrong side.
I prefer thumb release, more naturel for me : it seems it does not "block" nor my muscles or my joints.
And short eastern bows are really beautiful and fun to shoot... can't resist! ^^
Can you still do a 3 finger release on the right side of does it have to be a thumb draw?
@@tommygunner5810 if you for speed i find a variant of 3 fingers on the right side best. easyer to knock and draw with all arrows in one hand.
I'm a self taught right handed recreational archer and I naturally developed a technique of shooting from the right side of the bow with a draw that's closest to Slavic (Mediterranean but with index finger straight along the arrow instead of holding the string above the arrow). I can shoot this way while moving or even upside down without issue. I never thought of trying different techniques or thumb release because I wasn't aware these exist (but, until recently, I wasn't aware one can aim the bow either so what do I know 🤷♂️). Now, I'm not saying this is the only correct way of shooting a bow but it rises a question. From a perspective of somebody who naturally came up with "less efficient" technique and became pretty efficient at it, what are the benefits of trying to do it your way (i.e. Mediterranean from the left side, thumb from the right)?
I'm not sure what you mean by "efficient". Slavic draw is well known and works. The reason why Medi draw on the left and thumb draw on the right is normal is because the archer is less prone to knocking the arrow of the bow. With a Medi draw, the displacement causes by the fingers opening tends to flip the arrow to the right (for a right-handed archer), so placing it on the left keeps it on the bow. For a thumb draw, placing the arrow on the left means that the index finger will push the arrow off to the left. There are ways to circumvent these weaknesses, but these are not widespread or practical methods. The Slavic draw is a way to allow the archer to use fingers while shooting off the right, but it's discussed amongst traditional shooters that it's a compensation at best, and it still suffers from similar deflection issues as Mediterranean, though partially mitigated by the index finger placement. The thumb draw is generally regarded as the cleaner release.
@@NUSensei I meant "less effective", not "less efficient" - my bad.
So, if I understand you correctly, in my case (I have no issues with arrows falling of the bow) there's no reason to switch to a different technique (other than curiosity). I tried different draws at home for about an hour and most feel awkward for me because I'm so used to my own way of drawing but I yet have to try actual shooting when I have a chance. Thank you for explaining. Have an awesome week!
To add; was watching the archery championships in Mongolia on TV, and everybody (that I could see) was shooting with the thumbdraw but with the arrow on the "mediterranean side". They seem to be doing pretty well... got me curious as to the reasoning behind it (if it's other than just tradition/stick to what you know).
Modern Mongolian archery is a reinvention; the old method was lost. The current championship form is heavily inspired by modern Western archery.
@@NUSensei Ah. Thought something like that. Seems a shame... in a way.
Have you done a video on the advantages or disadvantages of the different sides / draws and why certain types work better or not with certain bow types? I mean WHY does it make more sense to place the arrow on the right side with a thumb draw and the left with a finger draw? Also, is one style easier to learn for beginners ?
And if you did it the other way round, like shot a longbow using a thumb draw on the left how big a negative impact would it have on your draw?
Thumb draw tends to turn arrow to the left (assuming a right handed shooter) therefore putting onto the right side of the bow makes more sense. As arrow is pushed into the bow. If you put it on left side of bow and did thumb draw you'd be turning the arrow off the bow. the opposite applies to the Mediterranean draw. There are exceptions but this is generally the case. Hope that helps.
The thumb draw was originally used with the shorter "horse bows" where the string angle was more acute (tighter) and limited room for more fingers. Currently bows can be shot either way, with the warning that string rolling does occur, clockwise from the top for med. draws and counter-clockwise for the thumb.
Great video. I wonder if you could have a custom made olympic recurve with a right handed grip but the shelf on the right side. Would that be possible? Having thumb shooters using the thumb draw in olympic style archery would be interesting. They would probably use leather thumb guards instead of rings because technically the ring is a shooting aid.
But what if the eggs your eating taste sorta like peanuts?
i hold the bow in left hand and always have my arrow rest on the far right side i do this because drawing is faster you are genurally faster that side and drawing from your back is aswell where as the left side if i was to draw from my back i would need extra time to equip the arrow on the left side where as the right i would need less time i fav this but not many good bows support this what i mean is they make the arrow rest on the left side instead of the right side so i am forced to use bows like his in the video that has no arrow rest if you ask me having the bow is left hand and arrow on the right side is far better and i encurage you to do the same but there is no fight way only perfer
There are thousands of depictions of European historical archers shooting off both sides with both finger and thumb draw, also shooting recurves as well. There is no definitive Easter or Western styles, there are just different styles.
Historical art must be viewed critically. Artists at the time were not portraying technically accurate depictions of archery or lacked the means to do so, and these depictions are full of errors and impossibilities. I discuss the issues in this video: ua-cam.com/video/OgOmA2zyq08/v-deo.html
I'd like to know which Western European sources depict a thumb draw.
@@NUSensei Norman archers are usually depicted shooting recurves of right hand side pulling with thumb. I am sure all methods of pulling a bow have been employed world wide. As kids we shot eachother with thumb draw, no one taught us it just felt natural. The three finger draw was only taught to me as a young adult when visiting an archery club, it felt very clumsy and strange at first. There was also the pinch grip but thumb over was better.
@@adders45 Which specific sources show Norman archers using a _thumb_ draw with recurves? Each source should be evaluated. Even if these sources show what is claimed, it doesn't mean the artist was correct in illustrating it. Commonality doesn't imply fact, as erroneous details and depictions are often copied and repeated (see: modern pop culture references to weapons). Arrow side is dubious because of artist limitations and errors, but I've never seen a Norman thumb draw with a recurve bow, let alone their "usual" depiction as such.
What you learned as a kid and prefer now is entirely irrelevant to the historical development of archery - this is not a self-insert fantasy. As for what methods were used worldwide, we have to substantiate them with corroborating evidence, not assume they had access to and did what we would do. That would be a historical fallacy. What you found natural or clumsy as a novice in the 21st century has no relevance to historical archery 500 years ago.
The thumb draw for Eastern styles is distinctly corroborated with not only art almost universally showing the thumb draw, but also archaeological evidence of thumb draws and extensive texts that document the technique in very clear detail, covering from Ottomans and Arabs to Chinese, Korean and Japanese.
If thumb draw was commonly used by the Normans, we would expect a number of thumb rings to be found and preserved. We have _none._ The earliest text at the time is quite late in medieval history (1545), but the descriptions exclusively discuss finger draw with the arrow on the left side (not directly stated by clearly implied with no exceptional case). If a combination of methods was used, it would be reflected in the very detailed texts, which go into specifics on variations in methods and why they are effective or ineffective, but no European text mentions any use of the opposite side of the bow or the thumb draw.
While absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence, we do not have evidence outside out unreliable and erroneous artwork that thumb draws were used in Western Europe. Even those visual sources that place the arrow on right side show a clear finger draw method.
@@NUSensei I beg to differ, I also would imagine that the Roman influence still held sway before the English war bow. Rome copied it's archery from the middle east, I have read this and they also shot recurve style bows.
Also may I say that the thumb draw has a few advantages over the finger draw, the biggest being the control of both the arrow and the string, this feeling more natural.
As a child we were mad for making bows and shooting arrows. The knocks on our home made arrows were not deep, so pulling the thumb over and a finger on top helped to keep arrow and string in contact.
When someone showed me the Asiatic style pull, I said yes that's how we did it as kids.
It does feel a more natural way to hold the arrow and pull the string.
@@adders45
What are you begging to differ from?
I asked for sources. You said there were "thousands" of illustrations of Normans using a thumb draw. Show me.
You are the one who brought up Normans. I didn't bring up Rome. Rome itself wasn't known for its archers; they recruited their archers from Crete and Asia. That's not in dispute. That does not have any relevance to how English longbowmen shot in a different time and place, a thousand years later. It's a huge stretch to suggest that a Syrian serving in the Roman army in 100 would mean that that their style of archery would "hold sway' in England. The Romans barely held sway in Britain, let alone an exotic archery style that wasn't even used in Rome proper or its provinces in Europe.
If you have any interesting sources to provide for evaluation, I'd be interested in having a look. I'm otherwise not interested in going in circles with what you did as a kid.
Ranty Nu, best Nu.
Which way is better? Or if neither is better what advantage does one have over the other? Also why wouldn't some people shoot from whatever side suits their contacts. For example what if shooting on the right side of the bow is more accurate but shooting on the left is faster.
Hi there, I only recently started getting interested in the whole left or right side debate. What you are saying here is something I learned some time ago when I learnt about mounted archery. That’s when I assumed, okay left side is Western, right side is eastern.
But... Historically, what’s the evidence that for example a longbow was drawn from the left side and not the right side?
I covered the historicity in this video: ua-cam.com/video/6ztX-jO_DVA/v-deo.html. Basically, there's no evidence from written sources that demonstrates how a longbow can be shot from right (as a right-handed shooter). The only sources are artwork, which may be unreliable and incorrect.
@@NUSensei there is literally art of people doing that??
@@NUSensei art isn't unreliable goddam if it's so prevalent in so many arts there is obviously some authenticity just because people never wrote down about spoons but you only see them in art doesn't make them fake
@@jzjzjzj That does not make logical sense. A mistake that is commonly repeated does not make it correct. Modern illustrations, films and video games always misrepresent things. Does that make it true?
@@NUSensei i get that but what reason would a medieval painter have to misrepresent the way an arrow is shot?
So... if you are not right you are left. I shoot both style and I do prefer the thumb draw, but I would never say one is wrong (sorry, left).
Lars anderson has singlehandedly reinvented archery for this exact reason!
Its just faster to draw arrow from right side. If you have many targets to shoot you would shoot from right.
I'm better at the western because I have the most practice with it but I've practiced a bit with the other style as well.
Back in my highschool days I got good at speed shooting western style because I threaded the arrow between the bow & string rather than moving the whole thing to the other side to knock it.
Does it matter how you draw, from either side of the bow. As long your being safe and having awesome time.
left and right side makes zero sense since people shoot right and left handed. Arrow on inside or outside actually has meaning that works...
It's like saying steph curry's shooting form is wrong and jordan's right. As long as it gets the job done
if something is wrong but it still work, it's not wrong 😊
Question:> can you shoot an left handed bow (left handed riser) with the right hand(string plucking hand) if you are using an wisket bisket? Would seem loading arrows for an "righty", would be easier.
I got to this late! But I was actually directed to this video because I had the same kind of question on r/Archery, but vice-versa. In all things I do, I'm a left-handed shooter. But I've always used right-handed bows (arrow goes on the left side of the grip), and generally shot right-handed. But when I shoot left-handed with my righty compund, it's a lot easier for me in terms of being able to engage my back and being able to knock and draw in a smoother motion, especially with a whisker biscuit. So I would say just try it! If you shoot the same, or improve, then YES, continue to do so.
I thought the bow was an instrument. I usually just pluck the string like an upright bass.
hi, i have a question, i was curious about fast shooting helding 3 or more arrows in not just for show, but in ancient conflict, why in medieval battle are never rappresented these techniques in drawings? from what i know, the english longbowman just shoot an arrow at a time and they train all their life, even when the enemy are very close, because you have to be very precise and very strong to pull a warbow because a slim deviation and the arrow doesn't pierce the armor... or i missing someting? maybe this tecnique was valid when the soldier were light armored? or in eastern contries(but even there, they shoot just one arrow)?
This is because "fast" shooting is currently misunderstood as being a normal part of historical archery. It wasn't. As a technique, sources do tell us that it was performed and how, but it was a specialised method used only in specific circumstances. You will more likely come across references to shower shooting in Arab and Turkish sources, for example. Outside of that, the normal method of using bows, as illustrated in most sources, is with a single arrow at a time and not rapidly.
@@NUSensei ok, but when this kind of shooting was used in the past? and in which contest of combat is used?
Oh yea. So your calling me out!... Are you calling me out? ......Well I guess you've called me out "Pench". , from an otakau
weeabo, a new archery gakusei, and subscriber. Dommo Arigoto Gozaimasu, Sensai NU.
how names this kind of gloves for archery?
OK now we cleared that up, which trouser leg does "it" go down? :D
Right
Funny thing is that Lars popularized thumb draw in the west but he himself shoots Mediterranean release on the right side :) More than this I saw mongolians shoting on left side with thumb draw. Is it historically correct or just it's just incorrectly reinvented - I don't know but it seems everything is possible.
Mongolian archery is a "reinvented" form, inspired by modern Western archery. Lars kind of doesn't shoot Mediterranean, but instead uses a modified Persian draw using the fingers rather than the thumb.
See Lajos Kassai for Mediterranean release on horse or Justin Ma for high draw weight high accuracy long distance thumb release shooting
What flavor bow is that? In search of learning with a horse bow and not sure where to start. Don't need to break the bank either.
"It's not what you know, it's what you get away with.." Me 🙂
can you do a review on green arrows style of archery
Nice video. I really like your work.
I do have a question I'm familiar with both styles, thanks to my coach, I'm from the states and prefer a compound bow. But I love to learn.
My question is the glove your wearing is it designed to shoot both western and thumb draw?
This particular glove is a thumb-draw glove, as it only covers the thumb and index finger. There are gloves, such as the Zahra glove, that can do both.
NUSensei
Thanks for the info keep up the good work!!!!
for a beginner which side of the bow is the easier side to learn and which side is "better"?
Whichever you find comfort
Hey Nusensei, is a bow with the riser cut out on the right side, is it a left handed bow? I have a bow like that and shoot it ambidextrously. Since I am right handed, i find shooting right handed easier, but any canter in the bow and the arrow falls off, so my technique right handed is less forgiving. Left handed, I get fatigued because it's a fifty pound compound bow with a 50 percent let off. I was originally taught a cheekbone or temple anchor and sighting with one eye, which i found difficult, and remembered the John smith from pocahantas, both eyes open. Since most of my shooting is recreational not exceeding 20 meters or so, I wanted to get another bow anyway, preferably a recurve, just so i don't sink arrows so deep into a makeshift target. Thanks for reading. Also I hear you are an English teacher, Do you do peer reviews on novel writing from amateur writers. I'm writing a story about time travel, and when I finish i would love to have a scholar's point of view. I enjoy the videos, especially the history and the archery techniques. Thank you for reading if you do.
Talking about the hold of the arrow, have you tried and what’s your opinion on the hold given to the orcs in lord of the rings, palm facing outward away from face....so I heard it was a way in history...not sure if it was true of not? 🤔
As above please..
With bow makers making the arrows left side how do I get a modern bow and arrow shoot right side?
Use a left-handed bow.
What is bether for beginners three fingers under arrow or two under one ander arrow?
Its much easier to reload an arrow when its in the right side and you don't need to drop the bow down after shooting instead swerved it left same follow through will happen.That is why this is effective in war time. Today it's much better to go on the left side because its a sport and you have a lot of time to make your shot accurate.
Yet, the left side of the bow was also used in great effect in war. Speed isn't everything.
With the bows they used in war, what slowed you down the most wasn't nocking the arrow so much as how many arrows per minute your muscles could physically handle (and also limited by arrow resupply), so which side you shot on didn't really affect speed of shooting.
I'd like to shoot both, since I'm interested in Kyudo, which is thumb-draw, but at the moment I only have a Samick Polaris, so have to do Mediterranean.
Hey NUSensei, I have a question regarding archery:
So I never done any sort of archery outside of taking a handful of beginner courses that lasted for about an hour each. In all instances I was given a bow that you shot using your three fingers and shot from the left side of the bow. But, I was always interested in getting touch with my Korean heritage and wanted to shoot a Korean style bow. But, from what I have researched, there is NO ONE in New York City area that shoots with a Korean-Style bow. There are handful of archery clubs that offer beginner lessons with the three finger drawn bow and from what I heard, have fantastic coaches. So given the very limited coaching opportunities I have with the Korean style bow, would it be advisable to develop my fundamentals of archery with the three finger draw bow first and then get my hands on a Korean style bow? Or, are the fundamentals in the thumb drawn bow and the three finger draw bow similar enough that it really doesn't matter?
There are a couple of interesting things to keep in mind for your situation. Firstly, fundamentals are mostly the same, but the *technique* is substantially different. You wouldn't lose anything by starting off with any kind of archery, but thumb draw and finger draw diverge in their technique quite early on, even though the fundamentals are similar. Secondly, Korean archery is actually very specific in its style too, even different from other thumb draw styles that can be adopted and adapted. There are very particular things that are unique or more specific to Korean archery, including grip and stance, which is quite different to Western archery. You might find yourself learning something entirely exclusive if you start from a non-Korean style.
@@NUSensei Thank you so much for your reply. What you said does pose a quite a bit of challenge. I am stuck in a situation where I can just go off and do non-Korean style of archery or rely heavily upon video/DVD materials for teaching me techniques. I am not very comfortable with the idea of having DVD as my teacher, I've done Martial Arts long enough to know DVD is no replacement for a qualified coaching giving you an active feedback. While I enjoyed my experience with archery well enough that I can enjoy shooting non-Korean style, but I feel like my enjoyment of archery would significantly increase if I learned the Korean style.
I will give it a bit deeper thought, but thank you again for your comment! :)
Y Kim Hi! I’m in New York City and I shoot Chinese style, which is pretty similar to Korean style except we don’t use hand torque/khatra and we prefer smaller grips.
The biggest issue really is space since Korean trad archers shoot at targets 145 meters away or so.Check out Floyd Bennet Field where I think you can go to 70 meters.
Also check out Gotham Archery in Brooklyn and Manhattan. The owner of the ranges is interested in all archery styles and stocks the Samick SKB And Mind 50, though if you want a more traditional style Korean bow with a proper grip and siyahs, the Nomad KTB from Freddie Archery is a great choice.
@@aeliascent1174 Hi! Thanks for letting me know. I heard good things about Gotham Archery and I might give them a visit in the future if that is the case. And... you are totally right, Korean archery does a lot of long distance shot that really boggles my mind! I visited Queens archery for my beginner lessons but I never got around to asking them about Korean style of archery.
Y Kim The staff at Queens Archery are very compound oriented. I’ve found them dismissive of Eastern styles. I try my best not to go there. They’re the kinds of people who dismiss anything they’re not familiar with.
They also only let you shoot at 20 yards, which isn’t the best for a beginner with an Asiatic bow.
I saw a mongolian archery competition and they shot left side when standing and right when riding but both with thumb draw. not sure why. also what are the dangers of overdrawing a bow like shooting 30 or 32 inch arrows out of a modern bow that says 28 inch draw in the manual?
Modern Mongolian archery competition is actually heavily inspired by modern Western competition. The style used today in Mongolia is not a historical style; their method is more akin to stringwalking with the arrow on the left side and the thumb further down the string. As for longer arrows - there's no connection between shooting a longer arrow and the 28" draw length measurement on the bow if you're not drawing past 28" (in other words, if you're using a long arrow but have the same draw length). Furthermore, most bows can be safely drawn past 28", as that is only the industry standard for measuring draw weight and not necessarily a maximum draw length. However, some traditional bows may only be made to be drawn to a certain length, in which case you should heed these maximum ratings.
@@NUSensei that makes sense. just starting out but really enjoy your videos. Best of luck going forward. also thanks for the clarification I panicked when i thought i bought a bow that wouldn't fit me.
Learning every day!
Thank You 😊 🙏
Thanks for commenting on this NuSensei! Not to detract from the video, but I believe your bow is the "Advanced Manchu 'Yarha' " from Alibow, right? And the arrows are from them as well? If so, how do you find the bow shoots, and have you had any issues with the straightness of their bamboo arrows? I love my Crimean Tatar bow from them, but I wasn't happy with all the arrows I received from them (some need straightening).
could you talk about green arrow bow
You are so right!
I would have guessed that the correct side is the one where you consistently hit the target :-) (edit: typo)