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I am a mma fighter and practice with weapons also, and there's s huge difference in those two ways of fighting, in hand to hand combat i usually use a lot of dodges and evasiveness for counter in striking and to close the gap for grappling, but when we do sparing with weapons the main focus is to control the weapon of the opponent, usually parring comes at hand, have discovered your channel now, amazing work keep on, hugs from Brazil
Great insights! We talk more about this in our previous video on dodging with the sword. You are correct, and weapons combat you need to control your opponent's blade and control the distance. We simply are not fast enough the Dodge completely out of the way of a cut consistently. And unlike in an unarmed fight there is no eating a hit. Even one strike with a weapon can often times be enough to end the fight, either by death, or by rendering your opponent unable to fight anymore. While I do have unarmed combat experience, my main focus has always been weapons work. So it's cool to hear from someone with more experience in that field!
You know you're in agreement with the video when he says "There is a way to dodge without doing a defensive actions" and your response is "yes, backwards".
@@eziospaghettiauditore8369 Nope, you have to cover the attack line still with your sword, else you step out of line and get hit right away anyway. The only valid way is backwards and even than stepping in right afterwards needs again cover unless you limit yourself to attack against the hand/arm or have better range in general. Well, unless your opponent overcommitted with their attack and really exposed their head I guess.
The translated old German is cool and it has its place, but there are also English words that we have used for just as long. They can be really helpful for Outsiders and for new people
It's the same stuff in old Italian too, and I am pretty sure the manuals in this regard are pretty similar in Spanish and French, etc too. Biomechanics in combat follow the same rules everywhere.
I love the vid. Only thing is that wasn't a slip that was a parry. Slips are primarily very slight head movement meant to let punches go by you. That way you are able to counter punch quickly. I do agree about that changing the distance is super important. The best defense is just not to be there.
I think part of the reason dodging is easier to accomplish in boxing is because most punches are fairly straight on and short reached. It's a lot harder to evade a 5-7ft arc than it is a jab with a little over 2ft of range.
A boxer punch is often straight and it doesn’t really matter if it hits you just a little, so dodging basically means just moving your head or torso. To move away from a sword swing means you have to move your entire body, and that’s not as easily done, especially not quickly.
It's an area of contact issue. If you think about it, a sword is a small edge, that has a large transveral presence, across a large body in comparison. Fighters in the wingspan extremes have 4ft+ ranges but the paths to contact are linear in comparison, there's simply more ways to effectively dodge a fist compared to a sword. It's simply more complex to dodge a sword because, assuming unarmoured, there are many more critical points on the sword compared to a fist; We're comparing a finite plane, the blade edge, to a small circle. A blade edge accounts for potential dodges better than a fist.
Distance is real important with *ANY* combat. I can't tell you how many times in my Kickboxing gym I was able to just stand still and have them attack me without actually hitting because they were out of reach. (Also it feels kinda satisfying move juuuust out of reach and see their Hits go into thin air, while they are like: O_O ) That's why something like fencing, or at least point fighting is more valuable in unarmed combat then you might expect.
Even in ranged combat, distance is super important. The things you can do fighting across a room and across a field are vastly different. Also, if there's any disparity in effectiveness at different ranges (even if the reach is exactly the same, though it rarely if ever will be) controlling the distance the fight happens at can be massive. If you can avoid the effective range of their weapon entirely (whether by being outside of it or closer than the minimum) you're like 90% of the way to victory right there. Even smaller advantages can be significant, though. Even with matched weapons fighting someone of a similar size just by fighting style and what I was best at I tended to do best at either the edge of weapon's reach or right in someone's face and was constantly trying to avoid the middle distances whenever possible where other people tended to do better than me. Distance is right up there with tempo on the list of "if you're solidly controlling this, you've probably almost won already" things. It's really hard to overstate the importance and I see so many new people neglect it and be perfectly willing to fight at the range their opponent prefers.
If you need something easy for an animation, I will say that a lot of times (especially with strikes aimed at or near my head) I would just lean back slightly, watch the weapon pass in front of my face and lean forward for the counterattack without even moving my feet. So many fights happen just within reach and leaning your head back just a few inches (really not much further than putting your nose behind where thr back of your head used to be) is usually plenty and not a big motion. General principle to follow: good swordsmanship is about movements being precise and efficient (and if you can make a character look cool and collected while doing so, can be sold to a normal audience as a display of skill if done welk, even though effective technique and what untrained people think looks cool don't overlap much)
I’m an epee fencer my entire fighting style revolves around distance management. For short people, just wrist pick any attack they try, and with taller people, u have a huge advantage in infighting, so I get really close.
@@williammclyr3330 High level as in skill level? Cause a more experienced player does use distance but, getting close happens with faster weapons to bait a panic roll for a rollcatch.
@@Meiling-Tea yep, i mean high skill lvl. I don't say that agression and getting close is impossible, but understanding of distance is one of the main things, that separates new players from experienced ones
Another reason why boxers are able to dodge pretty well is that they often don't wait for the other guy to strike, then try to react after the punch is on it's way. Some fighters can do that (watch Lerdzilla kickboxing for someone with near superhuman reflexes), but a lot of them keep their heads moving and dodge before they see a punch coming.
Bear in mind, two of the greatest defensive fighters: Winky Wright, and Floyd Mayweather Jr. get hit all the time…….On the arms and shoulders. They don’t always dodge punches. Often times they let it glance off their arms or shoulders. Or even the top of their heads. Like you said, it isn’t just moving out of the way. There’s a lot more to it than that.
Truuu! But these fighters also cleanly dodge better than the rest. Strikes that they can't cleanly dodge, they mitigate damage towards by trying to control where they get hit.
@@blazinkid5178 Right. That’s what I’m saying. Sometimes it’s fine to just let a strike land in order to give yourself an opening. I imagine it would apply to swordsmanship. Let your opponent hit your blade from a certain angle instead of dodging, parry, and then counter attack.
Yeah, Winky's guard is amazing. The key difference i think when you're fighting someone that's just a giant and a power puncher, it's better to parry or catch said punch, or, if kicks are included, a kick, than to absorb with a block, if you parry, the impact is gone. I think Wright was a master at this. Most boxers would just cover and hope for the best, or use a flashy head movement based style, Winky does it perfectly with the high guard. It's why most people think the high guard doesn't work, they don't step back, roll with punches, catch and parry while in it. It's a great defensive guard. Anyways, got a little bit too into detail on what was a sword fighting video otherwise, haha.
It's cool to know much distance management is emphasized in Martial arts like Boxing and Karate and also extremely important in any sort of combat sports/practice, it feels like it wouldn't be impossible to transition or to practice both. All the footwork and even the stances are very similar, that exact dodge is also constantly trained, the difference is in the use of your power hand to counter instead of the sword of course, I guess it all comes down to the universal body language of fighting. PS: I'm not talking about point karate in case someone starts an argument. Great stuff as always guys! Just helping with the algorithm 👊🏼
This also tends to happen in martial arts. The other day I was at my academy and was one of the only black belts there. We were I think 5 with both our teachers. The two guys were paired together and I was paired with my female teacher who was a bit shorter than me but very skilled. And so, we had combat training and we were being very careful, you really don’t want to be the first to attack but you want to attack to win so yeah. We both knew this and were being very careful faking out kicks while the others were throwing them Willy Nilly… the funny thing is even if we faked kicks we wouldn’t fall for those and react just as we threw a real kick retreating to then counter and… miss… we both were quick enough to see the kick and retreat so we both only really kicked each other once or twice without counting the times we accidentally clashed legs or hit each other really low or in an arm.
great video but what you showed as slipping was actually parrying, slipping is just moving your head out the way just enough to dodge the hit, this is more comparable to the distance control thing, you are close enough to counterattack but just far enough to attack back, but because of the nature of boxing and being able to say closer and take hits there are alot of full dodges, such as going off angle, slpping to the sides, ect. these types of dodge really only work in boxing as the dodges distance is sort of amplified the closer you are making sidesteps work and slipping can be done because of the limited range and ability to take light hits adding even just legs to the equation interferrs and makes it less effective. another thing is that slipping really only works when the head is targeted because in boxing the torso and head are usually whats aimed for. in sword fighting not only are dodges less effective since you cant go as far off angle but even glancing blows to the hands or arms are damaging and the long range means dodges like that are much harder as you have to dodge further, you also retain control and power when the weapon is out. a punch is differrent once the arm is out theres little you can do outside of pulling it back as it has no power. for swords, if you thrust for example you only need a slight movement to attack again while still having the weapon extended meaning one dodge isnt enough and a followup will catch them. in short slipping is slight head movements that work because punches are spaced apart and have limited range and power, swords dont have those limitations and can still get off a good hit. dodges work in boxing because angles are amplified in the short range and getting in close is common, swords force distance making the movement less effective as they are still in front of the enemy.
Another thing to consider with the boxing comparison, is that it's still a different type of combat. As an easy example, taking a punch to the face has lower consequences than getting run through (for obvious reasons). As someone who does a lot of unarmed martial arts training, I've noticed it doesn't transfer into using weapons as much as one might assume. I'd also like to point out that a some boxers will use dodging as there main defense, cause it saves more energy to get out of the way than to block. Not saying this would transfer over to sword fighting, just pointing out they may be utilizing their guard less than your suggesting.
I have talked about that before in the comments of our other videos. I thought I had it in this one, but we must have forgotten to mention it. Yes, in boxing and in other unarmed combat you can sometimes "eat" a hit. With swords (in unarmored combat) the first hit is usually the end of the fight
This... This is definitely what I was thinking about when I said my fighting style is like sword and shield fighting looks but sword hand and shield hand are instantly interchangable, well since I'm kinda both left and right handed. Many can't imagine it but this is kinda close.
I like this but I have one point of contention. Guard being up aside, boxers dodge, all fighters dodge. A slip is a clean dodge where your guard isn't used, the intention is to force the incoming strike to slip past you. In kickboxing styles, a stance switch allows you do dodge lower kicks; a well timed duck handles head kicks (with a caveat or two, don't duck an axe kick). Counter fighting is a whole style based on dodging and guarding to open up offensive opportunities. I think I know why, however. Blocking is more taxing on the body in unarmed sports compared to armed ones. An arm equipped with a parrying dagger takes a sword strike better than a free arm taking punches; it's just more efficient to block because dodging blade cuts is particularly risky whereas dodging unarmed strikes is actually meritable.
You're right, I used the wrong word. Slip is a clean dodge, but the risk is much lower for a punch. Slipping a punch and getting nicked on the way in is far less damaging than the same thing with the sword blow. Stance switching to dodge kicks is actually more like what we do here, as it increases the distance. You can Dodge and avoid attacks a lot more easily in a sport we're part of the strategy can be to eat a number of hits. With any sword Play usually the first hit is the end of the fight as it will debilitate your opponent enough that they won't be able to continue effectively.
@@SellswordArts Hey, thanks for the reply! I mentioned it in a few other comment chains but reiterate here. Overall, I very much agree with the sentiment even though I initially thought lateral dodges could be viable. It's just too damn hard to cleanly dodge a blade, an edge is a plane whereas a body is a surface, the geometry is unfavourable. I think the most important factor is the margin for error, being nicked by a fist is a minor irritant but being nicked by a sword can mean death. I think the common justification for dodging a sword, and my initial thought, was that a well timed dodge could force a strike to overcommit and allow a counter. But with thought, that's an unlikely occurrence as swords can wildly vary in maneuverabillity compared to something like an leg. However, I posit that I could feasibly dodge a swing from a zweihander or warhammer and force an overextension,but not with a scimitar or a falchion, for example. My opponent would simply redirect. I think it's an issue of moment, not weight, with weapons; if the weapon has suitable leverage whilst in motion, dodging is not worth it. Be it a sword or polearm. With most kicks, however, a roundhouse, push kick or axe kick, if I dodge, I'm in the clear regardless of the size of the legs. That's just our biomechanics having a limit.
@@chunkyizanagisburden attacking and canceling (fainting) is my thing. What the guys are doing in the video reminds me a lot of that Orochi move that steps back and then goes forward quickly to attack. Basically the same move.
@@henrikaugustsson4041 I don't see how you can play with real swords, that's something you take seriously. Sure you can have fun while training or competing with them, but that's not a game to play with.
@@henrikaugustsson4041 I personally think that’s much more of a grind game which they might not have the time for. But I’ll check it out, thanks for the recommendation!
You left me with these questions: 1.- What can you do in the unlikely case you have to defend yourself from an armed assailant (knife, machete, etc.) and you are unarmed? And by that I mean an attacker set on hurting you and runing away is not a choice. 2.- What martial art teaches you how to defend your weapons, other than Krav Maga. 3.- Do you know unarmed techniques against swords that you can showcase on a video? Would be entertaining.
I will answer as i have practiced MANY martial arts (does not mean that i'm super good at each one tho) and this video is kinda old. 1: That is also not an unlikely scenario, when people pick a fight with you, it's because they think they can win, so they might have friends or a weapon. So to answer your question, it depends on the weapons, but you want to keep these things in mind; either be too far or too close because they cannot hit you from to far, and you can wrestle their weappn from close (so start by quickly moving back, and when they run at you/chase you, you quickly move in while minding their weapon). Always aim to control their weapon hand, but remember that they could swtich their weapon to the other hand while you grab it, remember that you can punch/knee/headbutt them while you control the weapon so you get a chance to do something else. Also remember that people with knives will attempt to hold you with their free hand and then repeatedly stab you in the stomach, search for defenses against that here on UA-cam 2: What martial art teaches how to defend against weapons while you are unarmed? There are two (actually three but i will only give two) answers for that, first of all, every martial art that teaches you how to use a weapon will at the same time teach you how to defend against it, so you can use that experiemce and adapt it to unarmed combat. Now then, martial arts like Silat, Kali, Japanese Jujutsu, Aikido, Aikijujutsu, Hapkido and some Kempo styles will teach what you are looking for, investiagte a little about them. 3: this question was obviously not for me, but you if you are still looking for such videos, do choose one of the martial arts that i mentioned in answer #2 and search up on UA-cam something like "Hapkido defenses against weapons" of course with whatever art you chose, it could be "Silat defenses against weapons" as well
I once saw a UA-cam fighting against someone whose style was simply downwards cuts with primitive style, that style being trying to copy inoske, and the dipped while slightly backing up, then lunged
To doge completely it just requires high difference in physicality and psychology. But it of course easier said than done. But , it is the way for perfection. If anyone can react to 0.1sec would easily win any fight with just basic technicians.
Another dodge, sort of: I like to take a little stub step to the right, and fake a cut from my right shoulder and just as they launch in to ox the catch and skewer me, I spring to my left, to them, and thwart them in their ribs on their right side. It looks like I just dodged them, but I fake them into attacking off to my right where I didn’t actually go. I read their feet and chest to read if they’ll actually buy in…
I am a bit surprised about this "the dodge doesnt work" statement. Stepping outside the line of attack (preferably to the side or sideways towards the opponent) is one of the most important aspects of footwork in Longswrod fighting.
But we talk about that. Using footwork to to control the distances integral to fencing and any sort of sword fighting, but this Hollywood idea of dodging the sword blade is not. Almost always you combine footwork with blade work. A Dodge implies evading a strike without parrying or doing anything to your opponents blade. The only time you can reliably do that, is when you increase the distance causing your opponent to miss. And that's just a retreat. The argument gets a bit into semantics, but essentially the video game in Hollywood Dodge that we see people doing doesn't work. Instead you should combine evasive footwork with defensive blade work.
So basically you’re talking about the same kind of dodge/footwork prevalent in olympic fencing? If that is the case, are fencers who transfer from epee or foil to Hema style longsword generally very good at longsword fencing or is that not the case?
In my experience, most of the fundamentals transfer well from one weapon to another - I started in high school with foil and Kendo and apply principles from both in my longsword fencing. I also get wrecked by sport fencers with their tricksy footwork. To reiterate, fundamentals transfer well.
I started with olympic saber before HEMA was really a thing in the US. the fundamentals of distance, timing, and footwork have made me a MUCH better overall swordsman. I would almost encourage anyone to start with some Olympic fencing training because of how much they emphasize footwork and distance
My only advice is to be careful with boxing with a sword because you could get reported to your State Boxing Commission and to the police for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and then your wife and parents get on your case about being crazy and endangering other people
I'm at the very beginning of learning longsword fighting so please correct me if I'm wrong but if the opponent moves in after dodging by increasing distance would a false edge cut be a reasonable follow-up?
Why even compare to boxing. In boxing you can risk to dodge and counter attack because you know, you will not die when get hit. In sword fight you die or at least lose a limb or too lol
I agree with your claims about sword fighting, but your claims about boxing (which I do have lots of experience with) are not too accurate. Yes, a lot of the times head movement is accompanied with hand protection, but it doesn't always happen. A lot of people (including me :P, though obviously only at the amature level. It depends on the opponent too) make it work. The way I see it, the main difference is that in boxing, you need to generate lots of power in order to do anything, and you need to hit vital areas (usually going for the head). There's a reason we call it head movement - because it only works when you opponent is going for your head. If your opponent is going for the body, you need to use defensive footwork, a gard and optimally also counter it with your own offense. And as you might have noticed, in any fencing sport the aim is usually anywhere on the body, not just the head. So head movement would be ineffective if a cut to the body will incapacitate you all the same, and the opponent it not going for the head. Another key difference which stems from the need to generate power is that if you make your opponent miss, one of his hands is far away, and the other is too close to be able to generate any power. He'd have to either attack with the other hand which is far away, or pull back the hand that he just attacked with and only then attack with it. (When you make you opponent miss you usually immediately counter him right afterwards before he can do either of those things). Meanwhile, in longsword fencing (or any HEMA or kendo fencing with cuts), once the opponent misses (let's say you've 🦆ed under it), his sword is still in an optimal spot to cut you (slash downwards). This is even more true about a two handed weapon such as the longsword, which gives you optimal leverage to do these sorts of maneuvers (quick direction changes) quickly. Though I think you could probably do it with a one handed sword as well. So dodging forward wouldn't actually give you a short period of time to attack your opponent while he can't attack you (which is the main reason to dodge forward rather than retreating with footwork or using a guard). That's why head movement works in boxing but not in fencing or HEMA. But that's just my take on it from seeing you guys and other sword youtubers, I never actually did any sword fighting.
...what about that famous series of dodges where Muhammad was against the ropes and just slightly moved his head over and over 5 times to dodge jabs over and over
I am a mma fighter and practice with weapons also, and there's s huge difference in those two ways of fighting, in hand to hand combat i usually use a lot of dodges and evasiveness for counter in striking and to close the gap for grappling, but when we do sparing with weapons the main focus is to control the weapon of the opponent, usually parring comes at hand, have discovered your channel now, amazing work keep on, hugs from Brazil
Great insights! We talk more about this in our previous video on dodging with the sword.
You are correct, and weapons combat you need to control your opponent's blade and control the distance. We simply are not fast enough the Dodge completely out of the way of a cut consistently. And unlike in an unarmed fight there is no eating a hit. Even one strike with a weapon can often times be enough to end the fight, either by death, or by rendering your opponent unable to fight anymore.
While I do have unarmed combat experience, my main focus has always been weapons work. So it's cool to hear from someone with more experience in that field!
my old sensei, " just don't be there"
Same!
Miyagi : "no be there"
Literally 😹
Huh what a coincidence I think me might have taught my mother.
You know you're in agreement with the video when he says "There is a way to dodge without doing a defensive actions" and your response is "yes, backwards".
And to the side
@@eziospaghettiauditore8369 nope thats the point
@@eziospaghettiauditore8369 Nope, you have to cover the attack line still with your sword, else you step out of line and get hit right away anyway. The only valid way is backwards and even than stepping in right afterwards needs again cover unless you limit yourself to attack against the hand/arm or have better range in general.
Well, unless your opponent overcommitted with their attack and really exposed their head I guess.
So, as a hema guy, I really appreciate how you break a lot of this down in modern terms, instead of the translated old german that I'm used to lol
The translated old German is cool and it has its place, but there are also English words that we have used for just as long. They can be really helpful for Outsiders and for new people
It's the same stuff in old Italian too, and I am pretty sure the manuals in this regard are pretty similar in Spanish and French, etc too.
Biomechanics in combat follow the same rules everywhere.
I love the vid. Only thing is that wasn't a slip that was a parry. Slips are primarily very slight head movement meant to let punches go by you. That way you are able to counter punch quickly. I do agree about that changing the distance is super important. The best defense is just not to be there.
I think part of the reason dodging is easier to accomplish in boxing is because most punches are fairly straight on and short reached. It's a lot harder to evade a 5-7ft arc than it is a jab with a little over 2ft of range.
A boxer punch is often straight and it doesn’t really matter if it hits you just a little, so dodging basically means just moving your head or torso. To move away from a sword swing means you have to move your entire body, and that’s not as easily done, especially not quickly.
It's an area of contact issue. If you think about it, a sword is a small edge, that has a large transveral presence, across a large body in comparison. Fighters in the wingspan extremes have 4ft+ ranges but the paths to contact are linear in comparison, there's simply more ways to effectively dodge a fist compared to a sword.
It's simply more complex to dodge a sword because, assuming unarmoured, there are many more critical points on the sword compared to a fist; We're comparing a finite plane, the blade edge, to a small circle. A blade edge accounts for potential dodges better than a fist.
Distance is real important with close combat.
Absolutely the positioning dictates the approach and attacks available on top of defense options
Distance is real important with *ANY* combat.
I can't tell you how many times in my Kickboxing gym I was able to just stand still and have them attack me without actually hitting because they were out of reach.
(Also it feels kinda satisfying move juuuust out of reach and see their Hits go into thin air, while they are like: O_O )
That's why something like fencing, or at least point fighting is more valuable in unarmed combat then you might expect.
Even in ranged combat, distance is super important. The things you can do fighting across a room and across a field are vastly different. Also, if there's any disparity in effectiveness at different ranges (even if the reach is exactly the same, though it rarely if ever will be) controlling the distance the fight happens at can be massive.
If you can avoid the effective range of their weapon entirely (whether by being outside of it or closer than the minimum) you're like 90% of the way to victory right there. Even smaller advantages can be significant, though. Even with matched weapons fighting someone of a similar size just by fighting style and what I was best at I tended to do best at either the edge of weapon's reach or right in someone's face and was constantly trying to avoid the middle distances whenever possible where other people tended to do better than me.
Distance is right up there with tempo on the list of "if you're solidly controlling this, you've probably almost won already" things.
It's really hard to overstate the importance and I see so many new people neglect it and be perfectly willing to fight at the range their opponent prefers.
Nah its the shades
I like designing games (as a hobby) and you guys have provided me with so much cool details! Thank you for the facts and the fun.
Hey can I join you . What do you build with ?
@@phenomenonone6024 I design, not code. As I said its just a hobby. I have friends who do actual games, coded on unity.
@@phenomenonone6024 Do you know anything about game design or code? I could try and see if they need new members.
If you need something easy for an animation, I will say that a lot of times (especially with strikes aimed at or near my head) I would just lean back slightly, watch the weapon pass in front of my face and lean forward for the counterattack without even moving my feet.
So many fights happen just within reach and leaning your head back just a few inches (really not much further than putting your nose behind where thr back of your head used to be) is usually plenty and not a big motion.
General principle to follow: good swordsmanship is about movements being precise and efficient (and if you can make a character look cool and collected while doing so, can be sold to a normal audience as a display of skill if done welk, even though effective technique and what untrained people think looks cool don't overlap much)
@@dynamicworlds1 excellent, thank you for the tips
I’m an epee fencer my entire fighting style revolves around distance management. For short people, just wrist pick any attack they try, and with taller people, u have a huge advantage in infighting, so I get really close.
Nice try, Satan
Darks souls 3 taught me that I can roll 40 times, and everyone knows you have i-frames while rolling
It's funny because in high-level pvp people use few rolls and hardly relay on distance and miss punishing
@@williammclyr3330 High level as in skill level? Cause a more experienced player does use distance but, getting close happens with faster weapons to bait a panic roll for a rollcatch.
@@Meiling-Tea yep, i mean high skill lvl. I don't say that agression and getting close is impossible, but understanding of distance is one of the main things, that separates new players from experienced ones
@@williammclyr3330 sir
Joke is that rolling in ds3 is ridiculous compared to other souls games
Another reason why boxers are able to dodge pretty well is that they often don't wait for the other guy to strike, then try to react after the punch is on it's way. Some fighters can do that (watch Lerdzilla kickboxing for someone with near superhuman reflexes), but a lot of them keep their heads moving and dodge before they see a punch coming.
Bear in mind, two of the greatest defensive fighters: Winky Wright, and Floyd Mayweather Jr. get hit all the time…….On the arms and shoulders.
They don’t always dodge punches. Often times they let it glance off their arms or shoulders. Or even the top of their heads. Like you said, it isn’t just moving out of the way. There’s a lot more to it than that.
But this is swordfighting.those glancing hits are likely to be fight ending if you are not armored
@@lukelblitz3627 right. That’s my point.
Truuu!
But these fighters also cleanly dodge better than the rest. Strikes that they can't cleanly dodge, they mitigate damage towards by trying to control where they get hit.
@@blazinkid5178 Right. That’s what I’m saying. Sometimes it’s fine to just let a strike land in order to give yourself an opening. I imagine it would apply to swordsmanship. Let your opponent hit your blade from a certain angle instead of dodging, parry, and then counter attack.
Yeah, Winky's guard is amazing. The key difference i think when you're fighting someone that's just a giant and a power puncher, it's better to parry or catch said punch, or, if kicks are included, a kick, than to absorb with a block, if you parry, the impact is gone. I think Wright was a master at this. Most boxers would just cover and hope for the best, or use a flashy head movement based style, Winky does it perfectly with the high guard. It's why most people think the high guard doesn't work, they don't step back, roll with punches, catch and parry while in it. It's a great defensive guard. Anyways, got a little bit too into detail on what was a sword fighting video otherwise, haha.
It's cool to know much distance management is emphasized in Martial arts like Boxing and Karate and also extremely important in any sort of combat sports/practice, it feels like it wouldn't be impossible to transition or to practice both. All the footwork and even the stances are very similar, that exact dodge is also constantly trained, the difference is in the use of your power hand to counter instead of the sword of course, I guess it all comes down to the universal body language of fighting. PS: I'm not talking about point karate in case someone starts an argument. Great stuff as always guys! Just helping with the algorithm 👊🏼
This also tends to happen in martial arts. The other day I was at my academy and was one of the only black belts there. We were I think 5 with both our teachers. The two guys were paired together and I was paired with my female teacher who was a bit shorter than me but very skilled. And so, we had combat training and we were being very careful, you really don’t want to be the first to attack but you want to attack to win so yeah. We both knew this and were being very careful faking out kicks while the others were throwing them Willy Nilly… the funny thing is even if we faked kicks we wouldn’t fall for those and react just as we threw a real kick retreating to then counter and… miss… we both were quick enough to see the kick and retreat so we both only really kicked each other once or twice without counting the times we accidentally clashed legs or hit each other really low or in an arm.
Insightful and practical.
Outstanding
People also forget that a punch probably wouldn't kill you compared to a freaking Zweihander or something
Great video I was taught a long time ago that you don't block or dodge without it leading straight into an attack.
Wow UA-cam. How did you know i desperately wanted to know how to dodge a sword at 01:30am
Ironically, in fencing, this is called a distance parry.
Hahahaha
great video but what you showed as slipping was actually parrying, slipping is just moving your head out the way just enough to dodge the hit, this is more comparable to the distance control thing, you are close enough to counterattack but just far enough to attack back, but because of the nature of boxing and being able to say closer and take hits there are alot of full dodges, such as going off angle, slpping to the sides, ect. these types of dodge really only work in boxing as the dodges distance is sort of amplified the closer you are making sidesteps work and slipping can be done because of the limited range and ability to take light hits adding even just legs to the equation interferrs and makes it less effective. another thing is that slipping really only works when the head is targeted because in boxing the torso and head are usually whats aimed for. in sword fighting not only are dodges less effective since you cant go as far off angle but even glancing blows to the hands or arms are damaging and the long range means dodges like that are much harder as you have to dodge further, you also retain control and power when the weapon is out. a punch is differrent once the arm is out theres little you can do outside of pulling it back as it has no power. for swords, if you thrust for example you only need a slight movement to attack again while still having the weapon extended meaning one dodge isnt enough and a followup will catch them.
in short slipping is slight head movements that work because punches are spaced apart and have limited range and power, swords dont have those limitations and can still get off a good hit.
dodges work in boxing because angles are amplified in the short range and getting in close is common, swords force distance making the movement less effective as they are still in front of the enemy.
I agree we can't compare the boxing dodges (especially the pure dodges) with sword fighting, the mechanics from the attacks are way too different
I rly like ur explanation. Thanks 👍
I would love to see these guys to do something with Shadiversity
I don’t know who this “Ahadiversity” is but I’d love to see them work with Shadiversity on a video
@@KainaX122 lol ups
We would love to, but we are still a baby account. I don't think someone as big as them would be very interested.
@@SellswordArts thanks for the reply! I bet Shad would love to work with you!
Another thing to consider with the boxing comparison, is that it's still a different type of combat. As an easy example, taking a punch to the face has lower consequences than getting run through (for obvious reasons). As someone who does a lot of unarmed martial arts training, I've noticed it doesn't transfer into using weapons as much as one might assume. I'd also like to point out that a some boxers will use dodging as there main defense, cause it saves more energy to get out of the way than to block. Not saying this would transfer over to sword fighting, just pointing out they may be utilizing their guard less than your suggesting.
I have talked about that before in the comments of our other videos. I thought I had it in this one, but we must have forgotten to mention it.
Yes, in boxing and in other unarmed combat you can sometimes "eat" a hit. With swords (in unarmored combat) the first hit is usually the end of the fight
@@SellswordArts ah, it be like that sometimes.
There is a Secret technique to dodge everything.
Its called "Dont Play Hero and Run"
So basically Marth in Smash Bros
tipper f-smash irl
Nah, not enough grabbing from another continent
"Can't hit what ain't there chucklenuts" - sun Tzu
Super informative, thanks!
This...
This is definitely what I was thinking about when I said my fighting style is like sword and shield fighting looks but sword hand and shield hand are instantly interchangable, well since I'm kinda both left and right handed.
Many can't imagine it but this is kinda close.
If you cant increase the distance, close the gap. The safest place to be in a fight is either far away or inside their range
The most effective dodge is to run away from the psycho who brought a sword
Honestly when he explaine he became a good teacher, but at normal state he's really kid from inside 😂✌️🔥 and thats great
"here's the one good dodge"
*runs away*
I like this but I have one point of contention.
Guard being up aside, boxers dodge, all fighters dodge. A slip is a clean dodge where your guard isn't used, the intention is to force the incoming strike to slip past you. In kickboxing styles, a stance switch allows you do dodge lower kicks; a well timed duck handles head kicks (with a caveat or two, don't duck an axe kick). Counter fighting is a whole style based on dodging and guarding to open up offensive opportunities.
I think I know why, however. Blocking is more taxing on the body in unarmed sports compared to armed ones. An arm equipped with a parrying dagger takes a sword strike better than a free arm taking punches; it's just more efficient to block because dodging blade cuts is particularly risky whereas dodging unarmed strikes is actually meritable.
You're right, I used the wrong word. Slip is a clean dodge, but the risk is much lower for a punch. Slipping a punch and getting nicked on the way in is far less damaging than the same thing with the sword blow.
Stance switching to dodge kicks is actually more like what we do here, as it increases the distance.
You can Dodge and avoid attacks a lot more easily in a sport we're part of the strategy can be to eat a number of hits. With any sword Play usually the first hit is the end of the fight as it will debilitate your opponent enough that they won't be able to continue effectively.
@@SellswordArts Hey, thanks for the reply!
I mentioned it in a few other comment chains but reiterate here. Overall, I very much agree with the sentiment even though I initially thought lateral dodges could be viable.
It's just too damn hard to cleanly dodge a blade, an edge is a plane whereas a body is a surface, the geometry is unfavourable. I think the most important factor is the margin for error, being nicked by a fist is a minor irritant but being nicked by a sword can mean death.
I think the common justification for dodging a sword, and my initial thought, was that a well timed dodge could force a strike to overcommit and allow a counter. But with thought, that's an unlikely occurrence as swords can wildly vary in maneuverabillity compared to something like an leg.
However, I posit that I could feasibly dodge a swing from a zweihander or warhammer and force an overextension,but not with a scimitar or a falchion, for example. My opponent would simply redirect. I think it's an issue of moment, not weight, with weapons; if the weapon has suitable leverage whilst in motion, dodging is not worth it. Be it a sword or polearm.
With most kicks, however, a roundhouse, push kick or axe kick, if I dodge, I'm in the clear regardless of the size of the legs. That's just our biomechanics having a limit.
I knew it's going to be either backstep or leg slip.
This is the way
Have you guys played For Honor? I think you would dig it a lot.
I know back dodging is the most effective as well as dodge attacks parries fients and armour is somewhat effective!
@@chunkyizanagisburden attacking and canceling (fainting) is my thing. What the guys are doing in the video reminds me a lot of that Orochi move that steps back and then goes forward quickly to attack. Basically the same move.
They’re too busy playing with real swords to play with video game swords. And I think they would like Kingdom Come: Deliverance better.
@@henrikaugustsson4041 I don't see how you can play with real swords, that's something you take seriously. Sure you can have fun while training or competing with them, but that's not a game to play with.
@@henrikaugustsson4041 I personally think that’s much more of a grind game which they might not have the time for. But I’ll check it out, thanks for the recommendation!
Miyagi say "Best block...No be there" lol
You left me with these questions:
1.- What can you do in the unlikely case you have to defend yourself from an armed assailant (knife, machete, etc.) and you are unarmed? And by that I mean an attacker set on hurting you and runing away is not a choice.
2.- What martial art teaches you how to defend your weapons, other than Krav Maga.
3.- Do you know unarmed techniques against swords that you can showcase on a video? Would be entertaining.
I will answer as i have practiced MANY martial arts (does not mean that i'm super good at each one tho) and this video is kinda old.
1: That is also not an unlikely scenario, when people pick a fight with you, it's because they think they can win, so they might have friends or a weapon. So to answer your question, it depends on the weapons, but you want to keep these things in mind; either be too far or too close because they cannot hit you from to far, and you can wrestle their weappn from close (so start by quickly moving back, and when they run at you/chase you, you quickly move in while minding their weapon). Always aim to control their weapon hand, but remember that they could swtich their weapon to the other hand while you grab it, remember that you can punch/knee/headbutt them while you control the weapon so you get a chance to do something else. Also remember that people with knives will attempt to hold you with their free hand and then repeatedly stab you in the stomach, search for defenses against that here on UA-cam
2: What martial art teaches how to defend against weapons while you are unarmed? There are two (actually three but i will only give two) answers for that, first of all, every martial art that teaches you how to use a weapon will at the same time teach you how to defend against it, so you can use that experiemce and adapt it to unarmed combat. Now then, martial arts like Silat, Kali, Japanese Jujutsu, Aikido, Aikijujutsu, Hapkido and some Kempo styles will teach what you are looking for, investiagte a little about them.
3: this question was obviously not for me, but you if you are still looking for such videos, do choose one of the martial arts that i mentioned in answer #2 and search up on UA-cam something like "Hapkido defenses against weapons" of course with whatever art you chose, it could be "Silat defenses against weapons" as well
Gohan! Dooooodge!!
I once saw a UA-cam fighting against someone whose style was simply downwards cuts with primitive style, that style being trying to copy inoske, and the dipped while slightly backing up, then lunged
Yea, obviously you were not trained in the “art of the Rollie Pollie”
I'm thirsty af but I don't want to get water cuz I'm lazy
I was thinking run away. I'd say i was half right.
THANKS
Backwords dodges are peak because every time i do them its a 50% chance they stop and think im suicidal the other half try to kill me
I meant rolls
To doge completely it just requires high difference in physicality and psychology. But it of course easier said than done. But , it is the way for perfection. If anyone can react to 0.1sec would easily win any fight with just basic technicians.
It's like the backdodge for orochi in for honor
Another dodge, sort of: I like to take a little stub step to the right, and fake a cut from my right shoulder and just as they launch in to ox the catch and skewer me, I spring to my left, to them, and thwart them in their ribs on their right side. It looks like I just dodged them, but I fake them into attacking off to my right where I didn’t actually go. I read their feet and chest to read if they’ll actually buy in…
That's a good one
154 to 0.
So far so good
Also, if you mess up a dodge in boxing, your face will hurt. With swords you no longer have a face.
Hmmm defensing is really tough tho
Crown Splitter *lite*
So basically the neutral in melee
I am a bit surprised about this "the dodge doesnt work" statement. Stepping outside the line of attack (preferably to the side or sideways towards the opponent) is one of the most important aspects of footwork in Longswrod fighting.
But we talk about that.
Using footwork to to control the distances integral to fencing and any sort of sword fighting, but this Hollywood idea of dodging the sword blade is not.
Almost always you combine footwork with blade work. A Dodge implies evading a strike without parrying or doing anything to your opponents blade.
The only time you can reliably do that, is when you increase the distance causing your opponent to miss. And that's just a retreat.
The argument gets a bit into semantics, but essentially the video game in Hollywood Dodge that we see people doing doesn't work. Instead you should combine evasive footwork with defensive blade work.
@@SellswordArts - Ah, yes, i agree.
How do you dodge a pommel that is thrown at you vigorously with the intent to end you rightly?
So basically you’re talking about the same kind of dodge/footwork prevalent in olympic fencing?
If that is the case, are fencers who transfer from epee or foil to Hema style longsword generally very good at longsword fencing or is that not the case?
In my experience, most of the fundamentals transfer well from one weapon to another - I started in high school with foil and Kendo and apply principles from both in my longsword fencing.
I also get wrecked by sport fencers with their tricksy footwork. To reiterate, fundamentals transfer well.
I started with olympic saber before HEMA was really a thing in the US. the fundamentals of distance, timing, and footwork have made me a MUCH better overall swordsman. I would almost encourage anyone to start with some Olympic fencing training because of how much they emphasize footwork and distance
My only advice is to be careful with boxing with a sword because you could get reported to your State Boxing Commission and to the police for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and then your wife and parents get on your case about being crazy and endangering other people
BUT👏 DID 👏 YOU👏END👏HIM 👏 RIGHTLY👏!!! Lmfao
2:14 Small dash forward and this guy is dead
I'm at the very beginning of learning longsword fighting so please correct me if I'm wrong but if the opponent moves in after dodging by increasing distance would a false edge cut be a reasonable follow-up?
So, you just quickstep out of the way? That must mean that Bloodborne has the accurate combat, not Dark Souls! (/s)
No it's not a gun kills people not parries lmfao
so basically a very basic fencing footwork
yes, correct
This guy is hot
So in dark souls the only realistic dodge is the back step
Why even compare to boxing. In boxing you can risk to dodge and counter attack because you know, you will not die when get hit. In sword fight you die or at least lose a limb or too lol
What type of swords are those
European longswords, common around the 15th century
I agree with your claims about sword fighting, but your claims about boxing (which I do have lots of experience with) are not too accurate.
Yes, a lot of the times head movement is accompanied with hand protection, but it doesn't always happen. A lot of people (including me :P, though obviously only at the amature level. It depends on the opponent too) make it work.
The way I see it, the main difference is that in boxing, you need to generate lots of power in order to do anything, and you need to hit vital areas (usually going for the head). There's a reason we call it head movement - because it only works when you opponent is going for your head. If your opponent is going for the body, you need to use defensive footwork, a gard and optimally also counter it with your own offense.
And as you might have noticed, in any fencing sport the aim is usually anywhere on the body, not just the head. So head movement would be ineffective if a cut to the body will incapacitate you all the same, and the opponent it not going for the head.
Another key difference which stems from the need to generate power is that if you make your opponent miss, one of his hands is far away, and the other is too close to be able to generate any power. He'd have to either attack with the other hand which is far away, or pull back the hand that he just attacked with and only then attack with it. (When you make you opponent miss you usually immediately counter him right afterwards before he can do either of those things).
Meanwhile, in longsword fencing (or any HEMA or kendo fencing with cuts), once the opponent misses (let's say you've 🦆ed under it), his sword is still in an optimal spot to cut you (slash downwards). This is even more true about a two handed weapon such as the longsword, which gives you optimal leverage to do these sorts of maneuvers (quick direction changes) quickly. Though I think you could probably do it with a one handed sword as well. So dodging forward wouldn't actually give you a short period of time to attack your opponent while he can't attack you (which is the main reason to dodge forward rather than retreating with footwork or using a guard).
That's why head movement works in boxing but not in fencing or HEMA. But that's just my take on it from seeing you guys and other sword youtubers, I never actually did any sword fighting.
I'd rather just block, maybe catch the blade. Any dodges are to get away. A rapier to the eye is not a very pleasant experience.
@@PoorMansHEMA
I dub it "chasing and poking" because I haven't the faintest for terms about such. I do know how it is commonly used, though.
Do these guys have instagram...?
yes, same name as here!
Finally I am first
Why you gotta be so hot
...what about that famous series of dodges where Muhammad was against the ropes and just slightly moved his head over and over 5 times to dodge jabs over and over