I first heard and fell in love with Beethoven’s sixth as a child with Karl Bohm’s beautiful Vienna recording on DG cassette. Thinking of it now makes me miss cassettes a little.
apropos the felt need for a Viennese reference recording.. i am reminded of the line i heard from Christopher Hitchens that Austrias two achievements were to convince the world that Hitler was German and Beethoven was Viennese!
Bruno Walter's recording is the one that will stay with me always, followed by Bohm's. Oddly enough, I've wondered why Szell's recording, while perhaps not the reference, seems to not have registered in the minds of some critics and the public for the truly outstanding recording it is. Thanks Dave!
Szell's is just a bit stiff. A million years ago he made a recording with the NYPSO. I don't even recall if it was in stereo, but I liked it better when I heard it.
Dave, your comment about people coming in with expectations instead of letting the music wash over them hits a key point for me. I wonder how many people listen with others' comments in their head, rather than really listening for themselves. For instance, regarding Alfred Brendel (and this comment probably belongs in your video there...), I remember reviewers' comments on his 3rd Beethoven Sonata cycle sounding didactic and dogmatic on how Beethoven should be played. After reading this, I then found listener comments on Amazon reflecting this sentiment, as if they were being lectured to when listening to him. And yet, I do not hear that at all, but instead I hear a strong commitment to the internal character of the music, which is something I enjoy in most of Brendel's playing, and for me is key to conveying the music. Since finding this channel a year ago, I have found many recordings which I was not aware of, and which have opened my ears to some truly wonderful music. Szell's Haydn, Muti's Schubert, Vegh's Mozart, Ross' Scarlatti, Haitink's Tchaikovsky, Neumann's Dvorak, etc., etc., -- and the I Musici Box! (solid gold) -- are all new treasures I did not have in my music library. -- And I appreciate more the curated gems I already have, given the frequency that they appear in your videos.. 🙂 I'm letting my review magazine expire after many years, given the better breadth and depth of your commentary. I now can better understand the range of performances out there with applicable background, so I can make a better choice -- esp. since most of this is available on UA-cam for listening so I can compare performances for myself and hear what you are talking about. This is most excellent, and a shining example of how to present good material positively amidst a hoard of subjective biases. Thank you!! (Walter's Beethoven is now in my cart, waiting for something else to join to get the free shipping... 🙂
My favorite "reference" recording is that of Pierre Monteux and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. Especially that lingering-yet-controlled transition from the storm movement into the final calm movement. This one rivals Walter.
Great essay and choices! Interesting about the French orchestral tradition with Ludwig, and in that spirit let me share a Germans view of such things over Beethoven; Richard Wagner: 'In my view, clarity depends upon one thing only: the drastic bringing out of the melody. As I have pointed out elsewhere it is easier for French players than for German to penetrate the secret of performing these works: they were reared in the Italian school which regards melody, song, as the essence of all music. If by this means truly committed musicians have found the right way of performing works of Beethoven hitherto considered incomprehensible...we can hope their methods become the norm.'
A few years back, Analogue Productions issued an LP (as well as a double 45) of Walter’s Pastoral with Columbia, and it is one of the best recordings of any piece of music I have ever heard in any format. For me, it is not only the reference against which I compare the 6th, but also the reference for how I hope Beethoven symphony recordings will sound generally.
Once again, thanks Dave. I have that Walter in my collection. I listened to it today and have rarely been so moved by this extraordinary symphony. Was this a matter of a receptive mood on the first warm Spring day or of an exceptional performance. The Boehm is an acknowledged classic but I don't seem to have it; something to remedy. I also love Cluytens/Berlin and Giulini/Philharmonia. .
Walter and Böhm are both good recordings for reference -- they've been around long enough and have been so easily available that everyone who explores multiple versions of the work has probably heard at least one of them. And they are good, enjoyable interpretations among the many that are now on record. BTW, the Klemperer is perhaps too slow to be a reference, but I've "gotten used to it".
I will second you about Bruno Walter as a lively conductor. I have a DVD copy of "Bruno Walter the Maestro, the Man", a Canadian production which includes an interview with him at his home in California along with excerpts of a rehearsal of the Brahms Symphony #2 with a festival orchestra in Vancouver. This was in the summer of 1958, at age 81 and a year or so after his first heart attack. He did not seem at all frail, and was full of cheerful vigor. If some of his late recordings were mellower than his earlier ones, I would guess that his vision of the music had evolved over the decades with his vast experience.
Thank you for mentioning the Andre Clutyens/Berlin. What a great all-around musician he was. Sadly he isn't as well known as he should be.Its so frustrating to recommend him to others only to receive an indifferent shrug.
I played trombone in a community orchestra which performed the Pastoral. There is nothing for trombones in several movements. When we do play, it's half note high C, half note high D, etc. Not an interesting part at all. But I didn't care. It was such a joy to be surrounded by this superb music! A very satisfying experience.
I find it impossible to listen to the Scene at the Brook without thinking it’s the most beautiful thing Beethoven ever wrote. And yes, it definitely needs to move!
This is amazing. You read my mind Dave. I was just humming the third movement to myself thinking, "I wonder if Dave has made a reference recording video for Pastoral. . ." and here 54 minutes ago you posted it.
Thank you for bringing these wonderful recordings to my attention. My previous experience with Beethoven’s 6th has been from Karajan’s 1984 cycle with Berlin Philharmonic and Riccardo Muti with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Having now listened to both of the reference recordings you have described I have found that both of these have a brilliance than the others lack. The Karajan recording is decidedly lacklustre in comparison, but one wonders whether this due more to the skill of the sound recorder than that of the performance itself. I can’t decide whether I prefer the slower tempo of the Vienna’s performance or not - perhaps each is just as good as the other, just different.
I remember it being suggested that some conductors were better at the odd numbered Beethoven symphonies and some were better at the evens. One could imagine that Walter and Bohm could fall in the latter category.
Both lovely performances. For their unique woodwind sound I often turn to 3 recordings: Lamoureux Markevitch, Czech Philharmonic Kletski & Paris Conservatoire Schuricht. Another goody is Kubelik's Paris recording. Riches aplenty!
I have the Bohm, VPO Beethoven Symphonies set on DG Vinyl. His Sixth was the one I "imprinted" on. The Walter recording is also a favorite. Though I find many other recordings do not sound right to me.
The first CD I bought with my own money, 9th birthday gift, was Beethoven Symphony 1 coupled with the sixth and Egmont overture with Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra on Sony Essential Classics. Since then it is hard for me to listen to any other "Pastoral"!
The Szell is technically excellent, but I don't get the feeling from it that he spent much time walking in the countryside. As a lifelong outdoors person, I'm tuned in to that aspect. The Walter is outstanding in that regard.
You're right about the opinions of critics, reviewers, and others influencing hearing. I'm susceptible to this, I confess. One example, in Joseph Horowitz' "Conversations with Arrau", the latter said that Schnabel got a rushing in his playing after his first bad experience with the Nazis. So I hear Schnabel "rushing" when I listen to him. To the matter at hand, being a historical recordings geek, I bought Weingartner's Pastoral on Naxos. What a letdown........it's the most clinical, businesslike, let's-get-it-over-with orchestral recording I've ever heard. Wasn't with "the conscientious care of a gradener" as Debussy said when he heard him conduct it. On the other hand, Koussevitzky's 5th..........dynamite!
Okay so it's almost like you we're in my Spotify and youtube history lately because 2 days of writing this, I had just finished listening to not just this piece but also Haydn's The Creation from your Fabulous Concert Program (FCP) playlist since I've been on a break and have time to listen. The coincidence is uncanny, but either way very welcome. Also thanks for being such a awesome music education resource, keep it up!
Can you do a repertoire video on late-nineteenth/early-twentieth century pastoral music? It seems like the English and French wrote droves of the stuff! Thank you for your wonderful work!
Now that’s a lot to ask but it would be great if you came up with a new series (again) of works that don’t have a reference recording and tell us which one you think it should be.
Not a reference recording, but the most surprising Pastoral for me was Carlos Kleiber's with the Bayerische Staatsorchester. For these so popular works, I appreciate an original point of view.
you brought up a point that I have been wondering about for some time now. Do you feel that there is a ultimate Beethoven conductor? A reference (as it were) conductor when it came to Beethoven.
@@DavesClassicalGuide George Szell comes pretty close though. There are no weak links in his Cleveland Beethoven cycle, and it's always been highly regarded and in print.
I have always found the Schmidt- Isserstedt and Vienna absolutely gorgeous!
I first heard and fell in love with Beethoven’s sixth as a child with Karl Bohm’s beautiful Vienna recording on DG cassette. Thinking of it now makes me miss cassettes a little.
Same here. I too heard it on cassette. Its been ages since i heard this symphony/recording and .....man, this post makes me want to revisit it.
Same here
apropos the felt need for a Viennese reference recording.. i am reminded of the line i heard from Christopher Hitchens that Austrias two achievements were to convince the world that Hitler was German and Beethoven was Viennese!
Bruno Walter's recording is the one that will stay with me always, followed by Bohm's. Oddly enough, I've wondered why Szell's recording, while perhaps not the reference, seems to not have registered in the minds of some critics and the public for the truly outstanding recording it is. Thanks Dave!
Szell's is just a bit stiff. A million years ago he made a recording with the NYPSO. I don't even recall if it was in stereo, but I liked it better when I heard it.
Dave, your comment about people coming in with expectations instead of letting the music wash over them hits a key point for me. I wonder how many people listen with others' comments in their head, rather than really listening for themselves. For instance, regarding Alfred Brendel (and this comment probably belongs in your video there...), I remember reviewers' comments on his 3rd Beethoven Sonata cycle sounding didactic and dogmatic on how Beethoven should be played. After reading this, I then found listener comments on Amazon reflecting this sentiment, as if they were being lectured to when listening to him. And yet, I do not hear that at all, but instead I hear a strong commitment to the internal character of the music, which is something I enjoy in most of Brendel's playing, and for me is key to conveying the music.
Since finding this channel a year ago, I have found many recordings which I was not aware of, and which have opened my ears to some truly wonderful music. Szell's Haydn, Muti's Schubert, Vegh's Mozart, Ross' Scarlatti, Haitink's Tchaikovsky, Neumann's Dvorak, etc., etc., -- and the I Musici Box! (solid gold) -- are all new treasures I did not have in my music library. -- And I appreciate more the curated gems I already have, given the frequency that they appear in your videos.. 🙂
I'm letting my review magazine expire after many years, given the better breadth and depth of your commentary. I now can better understand the range of performances out there with applicable background, so I can make a better choice -- esp. since most of this is available on UA-cam for listening so I can compare performances for myself and hear what you are talking about. This is most excellent, and a shining example of how to present good material positively amidst a hoard of subjective biases.
Thank you!!
(Walter's Beethoven is now in my cart, waiting for something else to join to get the free shipping... 🙂
My favorite "reference" recording is that of Pierre Monteux and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. Especially that lingering-yet-controlled transition from the storm movement into the final calm movement. This one rivals Walter.
I got his LvB 1 and 8 back in the late 60's with VPO and it's been the "imprinted" versions.
Great essay and choices! Interesting about the French orchestral tradition with Ludwig, and in that spirit let me share a Germans view of such things over Beethoven; Richard Wagner:
'In my view, clarity depends upon one thing only: the drastic bringing out of the melody. As I have pointed out elsewhere it is easier for French players than for German to penetrate the secret of performing these works: they were reared in the Italian school which regards melody, song, as the essence of all music. If by this means truly committed musicians have found the right way of performing works of Beethoven hitherto considered incomprehensible...we can hope their methods become the norm.'
Splendid!
A few years back, Analogue Productions issued an LP (as well as a double 45) of Walter’s Pastoral with Columbia, and it is one of the best recordings of any piece of music I have ever heard in any format. For me, it is not only the reference against which I compare the 6th, but also the reference for how I hope Beethoven symphony recordings will sound generally.
Once again, thanks Dave. I have that Walter in my collection. I listened to it today and have rarely been so moved by this extraordinary symphony. Was this a matter of a receptive mood on the first warm Spring day or of an exceptional performance. The Boehm is an acknowledged classic but I don't seem to have it; something to remedy. I also love Cluytens/Berlin and Giulini/Philharmonia.
.
What about Otto Klemperer 6th? It's my favourite...any fans?
Read the comments!
Walter and Böhm are both good recordings for reference -- they've been around long enough and have been so easily available that everyone who explores multiple versions of the work has probably heard at least one of them. And they are good, enjoyable interpretations among the many that are now on record.
BTW, the Klemperer is perhaps too slow to be a reference, but I've "gotten used to it".
I will second you about Bruno Walter as a lively conductor. I have a DVD copy of "Bruno Walter the Maestro, the Man", a Canadian production which includes an interview with him at his home in California along with excerpts of a rehearsal of the Brahms Symphony #2 with a festival orchestra in Vancouver. This was in the summer of 1958, at age 81 and a year or so after his first heart attack. He did not seem at all frail, and was full of cheerful vigor. If some of his late recordings were mellower than his earlier ones, I would guess that his vision of the music had evolved over the decades with his vast experience.
Bohm is first class.I have also got Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic which,for me is just as ourstanding
Thank you for mentioning the Andre Clutyens/Berlin. What a great all-around musician he was. Sadly he isn't as well known as he should be.Its so frustrating to recommend him to others only to receive an indifferent shrug.
I played trombone in a community orchestra which performed the Pastoral. There is nothing for trombones in several movements. When we do play, it's half note high C, half note high D, etc. Not an interesting part at all.
But I didn't care. It was such a joy to be surrounded by this superb music! A very satisfying experience.
Nice to hear from a low brass player who’s got taste, haha!
I find it impossible to listen to the Scene at the Brook without thinking it’s the most beautiful thing Beethoven ever wrote. And yes, it definitely needs to move!
This is amazing. You read my mind Dave. I was just humming the third movement to myself thinking, "I wonder if Dave has made a reference recording video for Pastoral. . ." and here 54 minutes ago you posted it.
More mind reading, please!
Just a note, the Bohm is being re-released on vinyl by DG in May.
Thank you for bringing these wonderful recordings to my attention. My previous experience with Beethoven’s 6th has been from Karajan’s 1984 cycle with Berlin Philharmonic and Riccardo Muti with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Having now listened to both of the reference recordings you have described I have found that both of these have a brilliance than the others lack. The Karajan recording is decidedly lacklustre in comparison, but one wonders whether this due more to the skill of the sound recorder than that of the performance itself. I can’t decide whether I prefer the slower tempo of the Vienna’s performance or not - perhaps each is just as good as the other, just different.
I remember it being suggested that some conductors were better at the odd numbered Beethoven symphonies and some were better at the evens. One could imagine that Walter and Bohm could fall in the latter category.
Bohm is easily my favorite especially the gentle pacing and the shimmer form the strings at the end of the first movement
I love his gentle pacing in the first movement of Schubert 5. Quite rare - of the ones I’ve heard only Beecham does it similarly
@@furdiebant heartily agree
Both lovely performances. For their unique woodwind sound I often turn to 3 recordings: Lamoureux Markevitch, Czech Philharmonic Kletski & Paris Conservatoire Schuricht. Another goody is Kubelik's Paris recording. Riches aplenty!
I have the Bohm, VPO Beethoven Symphonies set on DG Vinyl. His Sixth was the one I "imprinted" on. The Walter recording is also a favorite. Though I find many other recordings do not sound right to me.
The first CD I bought with my own money, 9th birthday gift, was Beethoven Symphony 1 coupled with the sixth and Egmont overture with Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra on Sony Essential Classics. Since then it is hard for me to listen to any other "Pastoral"!
The Szell is technically excellent, but I don't get the feeling from it that he spent much time walking in the countryside. As a lifelong outdoors person, I'm tuned in to that aspect. The Walter is outstanding in that regard.
@@leestamm3187 Thank you! I will listen the Walter one and Bohm of course!
you got me imprinted on the Monteux
You're right about the opinions of critics, reviewers, and others influencing hearing. I'm susceptible to this, I confess. One example, in Joseph Horowitz' "Conversations with Arrau", the latter said that Schnabel got a rushing in his playing after his first bad experience with the Nazis. So I hear Schnabel "rushing" when I listen to him.
To the matter at hand, being a historical recordings geek, I bought Weingartner's Pastoral on Naxos. What a letdown........it's the most clinical, businesslike, let's-get-it-over-with orchestral recording I've ever heard. Wasn't with "the conscientious care of a gradener" as Debussy said when he heard him conduct it. On the other hand, Koussevitzky's 5th..........dynamite!
Okay so it's almost like you we're in my Spotify and youtube history lately because 2 days of writing this, I had just finished listening to not just this piece but also Haydn's The Creation from your Fabulous Concert Program (FCP) playlist since I've been on a break and have time to listen. The coincidence is uncanny, but either way very welcome. Also thanks for being such a awesome music education resource, keep it up!
Any comments on Walter's earlier LvB cycle with the NYP? Yes, it's mono. Not reference, but Just wondering.
One of my first LPs was Bohm's Pastoral. Fond memories!
Can you do a repertoire video on late-nineteenth/early-twentieth century pastoral music? It seems like the English and French wrote droves of the stuff! Thank you for your wonderful work!
Now that’s a lot to ask but it would be great if you came up with a new series (again) of works that don’t have a reference recording and tell us which one you think it should be.
Not a reference recording, but the most surprising Pastoral for me was Carlos Kleiber's with the Bayerische Staatsorchester.
For these so popular works, I appreciate an original point of view.
you brought up a point that I have been wondering about for some time now. Do you feel that there is a ultimate Beethoven conductor? A reference (as it were) conductor when it came to Beethoven.
No.
@@DavesClassicalGuide George Szell comes pretty close though. There are no weak links in his Cleveland Beethoven cycle, and it's always been highly regarded and in print.