Reaction Video - Path Less Pedaled - 12, 13, 14 speed who is this stuff for? And who cares?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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• The REAL Reason They K...
For me the sweet spot for drive trains is the 10 speed where road and mtb components work interchangeably.
YES YES!
$9.99 a month Eletronic shifting subscription service coming soon.
No kidding!
I think that APP cost is built in to the groups which is why they are so expensive. I really didn't need the APP to tune my Di2 but I paid for it anyway. 😢 Do the math, $9.99 x about 6 years which is probably the life of the group works out to a grand total of around $800. The industry knows we won't pay a monthly subscription so they ad that price to the cost of the group. Just thinking out loud, I'm could be wrong. But am I 😉
@@e.con5712 I see a lot of cable operated disc brakes!
Don't joke about it!😂
Those bastards!
I'm all about 13 speed! The reduced prices for 11 speed components is crazy good these days. Long live 6800!
Great comment dude I agree 😊 Pete 🚴🏻👍
Personally it is comforting to let go of the need to have the latest equipment. I still do double centuries in my 70’s on “older components” and never feel the need to change to the new stuff. I do spend money on keeping my bikes in tip top shape though by replacing the consumable parts before they fail.
I think most of us will be just fine if they just let go like you said! Once you stop chasing the latest and greatest and once you stop being a weight weenie you'll be much happier and you will find contentment in your relationship with your bike/s 🙂
I like to upgrade to the latest, last year I upgraded my 1971 Peugeot to a custom Titanium bike. I installed a 2x10 drivetrain, because the road 10 speed road has the same pull ratio as the 9 speed XTR rear Derailleur. I upgraded to disk so I could run 40mm gravel tires. I do regret moving to disk, I much prefer the feel of rim brakes. But I really like the dub rear hub, for me makes the wheel feel far more stable. Maybe in 50 years I will build another custom bike, move back to rim brakes.
Agreed… I bought a 2022 Cervelo soloist now I want to travel to Hawaii with it and I can’t get it in my orucase without removing my shifters in order for me to take out the fork, stupid integrated cables, so I just bought a 2011 Cervelo r5 10 speed rim brake can’t wait to ride it… love the rim brakes.
Complexity is not convenient for traveling.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad yeah I wasn’t thinking that far ahead.
I've developed an allergy against battery powered electronics over the years, i try to avoid whenever possible. It just gets more and more annoying trying to sorce and install replacement batteries. So this trends for more gears and electronic only is not for me.
I guess we have to hope that Shimano CUES for road gets released soon and will be a solid, reliable option into the future. So we'll have a modern mechanical 10 or 11 speed drivetrain option and don't have to start stockpiling 11 speed 105/Ultegra/ Dura Ace parts.
The SRAM Red 13 speed seems to be a gravel specific drivetrain. It has a transmission set up, not a normal dropout. Probably the feedback from racers was to have more in the rear with less jumps to the cogs. If I am correct, SRAM is setting up a 1x13 speed systems for gravel riding. It’s like their MTN bike systems. For years, they had an additional cog in the rear and a wider spacing of cogs as well. Furthermore, SRAM will have both 12 and 13 speed options (to my knowledge) based on software for the shifters. So, 12 speed will be staying for 2x systems IMO.
When my Campy rear derailleur exploded and expanded my rear steel dropout leaving me hopelessly on the road, I did build a new bike with Rival/Force AXS 12 speed. I was intrigued with the fluid clutch as well. It’s been 2 years now. No problems. In fact, if I do build another bike, I would keep the electronic shifting first and may move to Randonneur-styled center mount brakes instead. It does makes a difference to my riding. My hands/fingers are sensitive and have taken a bunch of wear/tear off them. Like Campy, SRAM is trying to be its own vertically integrated system like an Apple product. I wish there was software to allow it to be used for 11, 10, 9 etc. In my opinion, there’s one word why Shimano and SRAM are going this way - CHINA. LTwo sold over a million groups last year. The Wheeltop EDX looks promising having options from 3 to 14 speeds on the rear derailleur. Yes, the app might not be as great as SRAM or Shimano, but give them time. I’m still not sold completely on disk brakes. It’s easier to pack, ship, or break down for a train with rim brakes than disk brakes. To each their own.
By the way, the Campy 11 speed is still a sensational groupset! I still love campy and may buy another rear derailleur for my 10 speed system which may be built on another frame. However, as I stated before, Campy is such a small market to road/gravel compared to Shimano/SRAM. And with these Chinese systems getting better, who knows. One last thought. Campy has always had not great rear cog ranges compared to modern systems. My last 10 speed system had a 13-29T (yes, Centaur had a 30T). Now, my system has a 10-36T in the rear. And yes, the 10T wasn’t a great idea. Just like what you said, I believe either a 11T or 12T as a lowest cog will do better. Also, if I am correct, the jump from 11T to 10T is larger than 12T to 11T in gear inches. (If I am wrong, just write back - going off my head.) No system is perfect, but innovation is okay. Love your videos! Thanks!
Years ago when electronic shifting first came out I had to try it. So I bought the SRAM Red eTap because it was cheaper that Dura-Ace, there was no Ultegra Di2 then. It was a big mistake. About the time the rear derailleur quit working SRAM was discontinuing that for the new SRAM that was a totally new design and not compatible with the older stuff. I got the derailleur warrantied lucky for me but I bit the bullet and bought the Dura-Ace Di2 before I even got the replacement SRAM RD. What a noticeable difference in shifting performance. Years later I am still running that Di2 11 speed DA and have not had any issues. That said I will not go with a 12 speed group when this one dies. This bike is only able to accept electronic groups and if I can't get parts to fix the group I will go with a Chinese groupset just because of the cost. This stuff should stay in production years longer than it does so people don't have to make that choice that is going to cost thousands of dollars to continue to use their bike. I'd gladly pay $400 to $600 if it will fix my problem but I don't want to pay $3K or $4K again. That said, my new bike I've having made is going to be a rim brake frame with mechanical 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur. I like my electronics but I am practical also.
I so agree with you George! I'm speaking from a cyclist and a small shop owner perspective. I do ride "old" bikes, and my road bikes are all Campy 10 speed. I recently got back on the road after several years of only being in the dirt, and other than cleaning, a simple check and new tires... I was off and riding. And truthfully, I was smiling to myself at how well this bike shifts. All of them have externally routed cables, of course rim brakes, and going forward, I will only buy the above. I could certainly have 11-13 speeds, but truthfully see no need for it. I'm in New England, and lots of my customers now are simply repairing what they have, which is a lot of 7-9 speed bikes. Most of them are also hiking ,paddling or running. Lastly, there is definitely NO interest in my having an electronic drivetrain. I live and ride in rural areas, and could see the issues where I have a problem with the drivetrain and no cell reception to be able to call home if needed. I'm happy with what I have, it does not mean that I won't buy a new set of wheels or something else, or a steel or ti frame, but groups I'm very happy with. Thanks for sharing George;I appreciate your honesty! BTW: I too, listen to Rusty quite a bit, appreciate his opinions and experience as well. Thanks Again!
Just started daily riding a 10 speed touring bike, with a triple up front. Bar end shifters, with chromoly frame. Doesn't go fast, but very comfortable, loaded, or not.
Sounds like a great build!
Great content George as I have my favorite bikes love the steel bike which I still ride 10 and 11 speed mechanical.
Good choice! Thanks for watching!
1x11 mechanical with hydraulic disc brakes and I’m happy with it. Aluminum or carbon frame is good as long as I have my carbon fiber wheels. Nothing too expensive for the wheels, around $1,000.
Right on and thanks for watching!
I have two 11 speed mechanical bikes, one with rim the other with disc. My MTN bike has a triple crankset 10 speed. I don't need to charge any of them in order to ride. I charge my lights & Garmin and go. Last summer I rode SRAM Red 10 speed, swapped it for Shimano Ultegra/Dura-Ace 11 speed. Keep it simple enjoy the ride.
My favorite is the 10 speed drivetrain. Has all the gears i need. I do love my 12speed bike but I wish they put a 16t cog on the cassettes.
Crazy thought. My Road Racing days in the 1970’s..42/52….12/19 or 12/23 in hilly races 6-7 speed! Average speed on club training rides 20 mph. Now,still riding and happy with Campag Super Record 11 speed. Club training rides in the top group…20mph!!! ( spent 1980’s working in bike shop..worked as mechanic for race teams in international stage races,now do bike fit and workshop at home looking after race bikes,so some experience) last year declined invite to mechanic for a top team in the ‘Ras’ Irelands top stage race..reason? Did not want to mess around with through axles,electric gears,integrated everything at the roadside!
Speaking the truth my man. Love my Ritchey breakaway steel rim brake bike
I am getting ready to build TWO Ritchey Break-Aways for Jessica and I!
Graet video. Totally agree with everything You said. All that cogs and electronics stuff need only the racers. For rest of all us that is luxury and luxury cost. Mechanical rim brake, endurance bikes, 10 or 11 speed is all that we non -racers need to enjoy the rides, have fun and improve our fitness. Cheers
Well said! And thank you for watching!
Hell yeah, George. I'm with you.
I love my (literally) hacked 9-speed spaced 5-speed drivetrain. Wide range. Great chainline. All the gears I need as a non-racer.
You and I represent 99% of the bike riding public - non racers! We don’t need all this fancy pants garbage they are trying to sell us as upgrades! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Dura Ace 9100 mechanical is PEAK shifting performance. I love it on my Fuji. Though I use Rotor cranks so it's not going to catastrophically fail 😊
Ha Ha! You were doing so well and then you threw in that crankset comment 🤣🤣 I have no issues with Shimano cranks they are on all my bikes 🙂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad that's good. I love my Rotor cranks though. Sexy carbon cranks and a one piece 2x chainring... art 👌
I'm running a 10 speed cassette and I'm good with it. I don't stay that up to date with the new releases etc. I run an old Ultegra group set and it works great.
Yep 10 speed is really nice!
No batteries on my bike! (Except for lights). Have 3 bikes. 9/10/11 speed mechanical. The 9 speed one have triple front (My commuter). The gear range is outstanding.
Long Live the Triple!
I’m still riding 9 speed with external cables, long lasting and easy to maintain. Still ride fast on Strava and races.
Of course it is and of course you are! I love how 9speed shifts in the back. But the shifters have gotten better, as in lighter action, with 10 and 11 speed. Keep your bike and drivetrain if you're happy. I am with mine!
Calculated obsolescence.
100%
I have Ekar 13 speed groupset on my Ritchey Outback and I love it. Single chainring mechanical shifting great hydraulic brakes. I have 11 Shimano on my Ritchey Logic,11 speed for road bike is great don’t have interest 12 or 13 speed for road.
I have mechanical GRX on my Outback and R9100 on my Road Logic. Simple and easy to work on :-)
Thanks for watching Tony!
I’m also a fan of PLP and Russ. He convinced me to make the switch from drop bars to alt bars and clipless to flats. My daily commuter is a pinion gearbox 12 speed. It has its drawbacks and it’s not without problems but 20k mi and counting on original belt/chainrings. Maybe even a retro grouch can be converted? BTW-older pinion gearboxes use 2 shift cables that need yearly replacement.
Ha ha I have considered a Rohloff before!
Russ seems like a genuinely nice guy who I’d like to know
Bike videos have been popping up since I watched some to help me fix my bike. I ride the bike for exercise and fresh air. The more I see the more I'm happy with my 30+ year old bike. Was there a problem being solved with electronic shifting? My rim brakes seem to stop me just fine. They used to say a few things that may apply here. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Charles F. Kettering said - Parts left out cost less and never need repair.
You touched on a couple things. #1 The latest carbon frame is absolutely “marketing” to consumers. It’s not comfortable,it’s not easily fixed or maintained. Plus it’s meant for consumers to buy and replace after a few years. #2 Electronic shifters and eBikes are also “marketing” and even more so with their proprietary technology and hardware. American’s are the biggest consumers of the world and that’s why these companies that are peddling this stuff are after our dollar and training to retain loyal customers that are convinced that they need the latest or that riding a Team bike like the Pro’s will make them happy.
As you know from my channel, I have rejected large factory produced bicycles and always try to source components from small companies. I think buying disposable bikes or bikes that will become obsolete are irresponsible to the environment. Currently large landfills are overflowing with waste due to mostly Americans that have been marketed too thinking that they need more “crap”
I’m looking forward to my retirement of riding my classic bikes and getting away from California and its smoggy climate.
Complexity is fuel for digital exposure, marketing. Management consultants got ahold of Yozo Shimano and told him to reduce the number products offered , but increase the velocity of change in what you keep.
I went to my trusted local pro level shop who do fantastic work, and asked them to replace all the cables and housing and the hanger on my mid level internally routed carbon bike. It was time. They were worn, the hanger was 95% strait but , ya. $370. 4 hours labor, $90 parts.
10 speed is as far as I would go. I've clunked shifts under load and bent 11 speed cogs. As for low gears on the road, if it's not for a loaded bike, I tend to believe it's more of a state of mind - a mental crutch. The difference between 12-28 and 12-34 isn't really that material. Get over it. You just have to alter your technique. Once upon a time, we all climbed HC on 42/23 and adding the 25-26 was considered such a luxury. OTOH, off road is a different story and there is a legitimate reason for lower gears because smooth modulation greatly improves traction on steep pitches. But you can get a triple or 46/30 for that.
The only disadvantage of 80 and 90s road bike is tire clearance. My old Dura Ace and Ultegra bikes, can only get a 26mm and mabe a thin 28mm tire between the calipers. Other then narrow tires. My old custom Bruce Gordon 84, and Hans Schneider 94 are truly magnificent rides.
@@keithadler965 very true! Most of my steel bikes fit 28mm minimum so I’m fortunate. Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Awesome! we produce top quality mim parts for e-bike , as well as oil brake!
I'm sticking with 11-speed mechanical shifting, cable brakes for as long as I can. I already have a stash of parts and with new and used 105, Ultegra and GRX I should be able to hold on for a decade. And my Ti frame will last a lifetime.
You and me both! I have a stockpile too! I guess eBay will have all those retro bikes for sale from buyers who went electronic. Thanks for watching
There is no way you would ever be intentionally disrespectful towards anyone George,I have been watching your channel for a long time
aww... thank you!
If you are going to react to another creator, please do him the courtesy of learning his name. He is a nice guy. And he deserves a modicum of respect.
His name is Rusty and I said as such. I just didn’t know the exact name of his channel. I’m not sure what your issue is though…
I know whom he was referring to, and so do you.🫵🏻
But you on the other hand, are an unknown.
And it’s also in the title of the video so what’s the issue ?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad check his website. The name is Russ.
@@randallsmith7885 well then I stand corrected! Thank you for following up. I honestly thought his name was Rusty! At least I didn’t call him Isaac 😂 and yes I did compliment him as being a nice guy because I believe he is just that.
On the other hand, I couldn’t care less if someone didn’t know my name. It’s irrelevant. I am more concerned that the concept and the content is conveyed. And if they were to quote me then I would hope they would be accurate. Otherwise, it’s not disrespectful if someone doesn’t know my name. In fact, as I open EVERY video I say the name of my business, and channel and people still ask what is the name of my shop 😂
Just like I don’t get upset when Starbucks gets my name wrong on the cup I mean how hard is George 😂 😂
I agree 100% 😊
Thank you for watching Lance! Please consider subscribing 😊
used to be a Shimano or bust person (and before that, Sun Tour Cyclone or bust), but now Campy (for the time being) is the only company that continues to be fully invested in mechanical and rim brakes at the higher levels. Chorus and Ekar work very well with 12 and 13 speed once you figure them out. I'll keep my Shimano Ultegra 10 speed bikes until I die. If they are well maintained and not abused, they have a good chance of working for the life of the owner. You can hang these bikes in the rafters for decades, take them down, clean them up, put new tires on and go. I suspect that will not be the case for SRAM AXS or Di2
Really? I thought the new record and super record groups a electronic only
@@samsepiol7080 Campy has Super Record, Record and Chorus mechanical in both disc and rim brake configurations. The rim brake feel with Campagnolo is quite a bit better than my Ultegra, but this may be due to their pad compound.
I can’t really add much to this. Just agree.
I still like light weight bikes and comfort, that’s why I ride a titanium bike. Best of all worlds baby! 😎
I was happy at 10 speed. That for me was perfection for road.
But I love my 8 speed with a triple chain ring, best touring/gravel/shopping Bike gears you can get.
Unfortunately logical intelligent voices like yours are always going to be the minority, we just have to do the best weekend to educate people and make them realise that the old ways are actually better. Most people who still hang on to the new technology simply do so because they don’t know any better. 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly, adding stuff and making people think they "need" it. Rode 9 speed with a 12-27 and 39-53 setup for hills in UT and CA. Never found anything I couldn't get up. I can allow that a 10 speed with an even bigger cog would've been nice and 11 speed just would've filled in the jumps, but not really made anything better. 12 speed and now 13 speed makes no sense and adds nothing but complexity and weight. Don't even get me started on disc brakes on a road bike that isn't being used either TT or pro-level descents at over 50mph.
Oh come on go ahead and rant on disc brakes 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Oh no, they already think we are troglodytes, of course they then complain about bike prices too. 🤣
Like you, I have a shop. So I have a few bikes (some Ritcheys!). And I get to ride a lot of bikes. Agree with what you and Russ and what you’re saying. I built a bike over the Winter because I had this old Scott Windriver from ‘87 that was left in the shop with Roller Cams still on it. And I had a beautiful old 5 speed Suntour freewheel. So I built some wheels. I’m riding 5spd up through 12 most days on some personal bike from some era of cycling. The Scott has a triple Deore crankset stock on the frame. 48/38/28. FW is 13/28 or something. That old bike stacks up very well as an all-a-rounder. Rode it on a road ride the other day and had no problem. Next day I rode a bike with a 1x 44x11-42. I liked them both but the friction shifting on the 5 spd didn’t feel like a toy. Ultimately the “industry” is about selling bikes when it should be (because it’s mature product) be about the lifestyle and health/mental health benefits of riding ANY bike. Brevet or to breakfast and back.
Hello Michael - sounds like you have some cool old bikes. SRAM does feel like a toy to me. It has never felt like a well polished system. The Double Tap paddles and shifting is clunky and noisy and just .... Good luck with you bike shop!
I'm with you George on all your points
What do you consider a real multi-tool for you🤔
Dude This is what I'm riding and it' doesn't stop me classic George 😂😂😂
Great rant
A real multi-tool is something that has a chain tool and spoke wrench notches all the basic 4,5,6 mm but also down to 2mm for derailleur adjustments and up to 8mm to remove pedals while traveling plus Phillips and straight screwdrivers - it I have some Torx then that’s a bonus! 😂
Classic George ahem Retro Grouch to you sir 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad For that reason alone that's why I carry real multi-tool that has pliers plus 15 other tools along with real set of Allen wrenches
I have N+1 bikes.
only one is hydro disc😞
none are carbon. These are what I ride and they're not stopping me
See you in the next videos 👌😁
George .. Just completed a 1972 Cinelli SC with good old Campagnolo Record. Now working on an 1980s DeRosa, and two carbon bikes .. a Colnago C-50 and a Serotta HSG .. both with Campagnolo 80th anniversary groups. And finally, a Gios from the 1960s. No too new stuff here.
I have 12 sped di2 on my Canyon, it works great, and for arthritis it's awesome. But the tight spacing on the gears is actually annoying. I find i just hammer two or three shifts at once sometimes. It's kind of the opposite problem to overly wide spacing on one-by. But i agree with you George, electronic isn't necessary, it's kind of a solution to something that wasn't really a problem to begin with. My Road Logic with full Dura Ace 9100 is an absolute dream. Yes it will require some minor tuning along the way. But that's part of being one with your machine.....
If the drivetrain serves it's purpose by being reliable and having the gear ratios for the terrain/fitness of the rider, it does not matter how many gears you have. That being said, 3x9 or 3x7/8 is my favorite drivetrain configuration. I'd rather have an excess of lower gears than higher gears.
As someone who's come full circle from starting on a mid grade steel, to lusting over the top spec carbon to riding a good steel frame, you and Russ are both right.
Top spec carbon bikes are like F1 cars - go fast at all costs...period. A good steel bike is like a nice sport sedan - fast enough and fun when you're not on a race track.
It's too bad that when you say "steel bike", most people think of a Walmart special vs a Ritchey, Serotta or Waterford. It also seems like the majority of the bike industry does not want to correct that image since it pushes us to get the latest and greatest.
And when you tell someone new to the sport that a steel bike is the best value, gives you 90% of the performance as a carbon, you get the response, "OK boomer..." 🙄😃
Dura ace 11speed mechanical 9100 is the nicest groupset for a road bike I’ve ever ridden. I have SRAM etap force on one of my bikes and i haven’t had any problems but the feel of the 9100 shifters and the crisp shifts are something I’ll never get tired of. I’m also on an externally routed steel rim brake bike and the only negatives I ever get are from people asking how I stop or how heavy it is. To their surprise it’s about 16.5 lbs and it stops on a dime 😂
Yeah like no one was ever able to stop their bikes before disc brakes lol! 16.5! I'm sure their jaw drops when their $10,000 bike is over 18lbs lol!
I like it both. I own sram axs on my road bike and a friction shiftes gravel bike. But people do get a little to brainwashed into thinking its gonna make them faster or is needed to have fun on the bike. My friction shifting and canti breaking gravel bike is a lot more fun because Im feeling way more connected to the maschine and the tech is easy to understand and repair. My next roadbike will also use more retro tech again since it is also way more affordable :)
I couldn't care less about 12, 13 or 14 speed bikes. I'm still using a mechanical lower end Tiagra 10 speed drivetrain, rim brakes all external cabling. Love it, really easy to do maintenance on, cheap to get replacement parts and chains last longer. And don't get me started on electronic gears, good luck trying to fix that out on a long ride where as mechanical you can botch a fix if a derailleur cable breaks to get you home.
Correct correct correct 👍 thanks for watching please consider subscribing
My 2014 Colnago C60 is still bloody gorgeous )and made in Italy, not Taiwan) . Rim for the win. Will get out on the road again soon, still recovering from almost severing my left hand last November in an amateur kitchen accident. What a moron.
Thanks for watching Saz! Yep bikes like a C60 look beautiful and timeless as a rim brake mechanical build. So sorry to hear about your kitchen accident! Stick to pie baking 🤣
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad I am a clumsy oaf.
I have a modern road bike with SRAM Force ETAP. After the initial break in period of getting everything set up just how I like it...I just ride it. I never worry about it but I do maintain it just like any bike. If issues arise then sure they can be more complicated than older bike but that is what the Bike Shop is for. While these bikes are more complicated 99% of the time they work and they work quite well. BTW - the 13 speed is for 1 by gravel racing not road. Oh and you only need 2 bottles for a century and never stop...are you a camel?
Yes I am part camel. I can usually ride 5-7 hours on just two bottles. In fact, if you follow me on Strava I routinely do what I call #NoNoRides where I don't stop for refueling or potty breaks for 6-8 hours. Yes it can be done you just have to ignore being thirsty and suffer through it. Eventually you just ride with less. www.strava.com/athletes/5473
Or you can google search #NoNoRide or Instagram I also do 4-6 hour rides #ZeroCalorie no water no calories instagram.com/revcycling/
I have both mechanical and electronic and I prefer electronic any day of the week. I would love the upgrade the chainring on the mechanical bike but it's difficult to find a shop that sells one with a 165mm crank these days.
Thanks for watching!
😅 We need more retrogrouch!
I imagine from there the face of your friend checking your bike. "it's heavy' And? So what? If after 3hrs you can't stand your ultra stiff carbon frame where is the advantage?
I understand your questions regarding this endless race to more speed. 13 for 1x could be nice. But for 2x setup...
You should try the combo CF+disk+Eshift+tubless+carbon rims+integrated stem on a 600K brevet. It would be intersting to get your feedback.
Ha Ha Mathieu! Yes the 4 hour bike as I call them. Fortunately, I don't own or ride the latest and greatest bike as you describe it :-)
Will NEVER go back to mechanical shifting period! No more adjustments no more broken cables.
thanks for watching!
As an ex software business owner the last thing I want on my bike is software! (Except for my beloved Garmin 520 and power meter of course)
Yes Lance! I will not ride without a power meter! And you have to track your ride. How will you brag to your friends if you don't have a Garmin to record your ride 😊
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad my modest efforts are nothing to brag about, George ☺️
I keep thinking about going to a wide range 10 speed and a half step plus gearing up front for my Cargo bike.
Thanks for watching!
We've reached diminishing returns on innovation. The one thing that would be interesting is that if a 12-speed chain is the sweet spot that worked with 11-12 & 13 speed cassettes and chainrings and all the shifting is electronic, the levers/derailleurs could be programmed for 11-12-13 speed spacing. But if that happened, I guess component manufacturers wouldn't be able to sell the upgrade
In terms of programming, the Chinese company Wheel Top have show this is entirely feasible with their EDS stuff which will run anything between 3 and 13 speeds selectable via an app. In fact it doesn't take too much thought to realise that it's obviously feasible. The shifter is just an electronic controller that tells the derailleur to move X amount. there is no reason whatsoever that it couldn't be programmed so that X is whatever amount you need it to be. In other words at least in terms of "pull" a universal shifter/derailleur. Of course the big guys have no interest in making that happen.
Personally the idea of having to charge up your derailleur is anathema and stick to cables, but I have to say electronic would be more appealing if you weren't tied into a particular product which will likely be "obsolete" next year, just after it fails.
@@uncleants that's quite interesting. I wasn't aware of that. I'm still a Shimano fan so i don't know that I could bring myself to buying anything else.
Electronic is the best by far, it’s not even close. Especially sram, so easy to install and maintain.
I’d like for us to follow up with each other 5 years or 10 years from now on the exact electronic groupset you are riding today.
Just for argument sake, I am a cable fan, but this electronic shifting will get better. I am a mechanic, heavy equipment specifically, but as a kid in the 90’s the automotive world was shifting to electronic everything that we all complained about. So, for making a long story short, throttle cables, I have personally broke my fair share. Always could get home using bottle caps or something to stick in the throttle control module. When they shifted to full drive by wire, no more cables, I thought good lord now I’ll just be stuck on the side of the road. Had a throttle control module go out on me once ever, I have lost multiple cables, and even that one time my old bottle cap trick I made work. Every modern vehicle you drive today is shifted throttled and electric everything, no one thinks twice anymore. I think bikes need this innovation too. I do understand your points though, I drive a fully analog 1972 Bronco for these same end user reasons, but most people aren’t mechanics Ana just because something is easy for us to understand, use, and work on doesn’t mean the Joe/Jane Public can. Ramble over, love your stuff
You are so right I don't even think about the electronics in play when I drive my minivan around! I know things will get better electronically and so will the disc brakes. I like to vent every now and then though lol!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad absolutely, ranting is great. Just wanted to add a smidge of reflection. Thank you sir
If the 13 speed groupset got released, i hope the older 10 speed got discounted so i can upgrade from my Claris 8 speed 😆
OMG! That was sooo funny thank you! Please consider subscribing!
10 speed is absolutely bomb proof. for Shimano, SRAM and Campag
the thicker the chain the better the shifting ... I think anyway
3x7 baby 80s 90s
Although I am on 100% with you by riding external cable bike with rim brake with 11spd mechanical shifting...But I can tell you, that it requires that you dedicate time to know how it works to maintain it.
For some guys, they prefer to not have that "issue" and have an app...even if on the other side you will have transmissions and batteries that won't last "forever" like mechanical...
Each own his "issues" and his solutions, hence why brands get new stuff and please people.
Also because the human wants new stuff.
Regarding 1x by AXS transmission, with mullet ratios, it can be great for heavy gravel.
Also by having a Ritchey outback breakaway, it eases the job of packing.. Abd kess cables getting mud inside.. But I guess I am not ready to be surprised by an issue I can't fix or to be expensive.
Regarding "being obliged to switch"...we will always have stock and used parts, just more difficult to find, and maybe not the high end.
On my side sticking with mechanical 11spd shimano
I do agree with those that suggest or prefer wireless shifting systems for Break-Away bikes! I'm just not a fan of SRAM
I'm still trying to figure out the cross chaining issue. Especially with the 1x13.
When I pedal 1X bikes in the stand the cross-chaining puts enormous tension on the chain but apparently it's not felt on the dirt since MTB and Gravel are all going that direction.
I agree George it’s just marketing to make people want the latest thing.. I know you don’t like Campagnolo but I love it and ride chorus 11 speed mechanical rim brake and I think it’s fantastic have I on 3 of my bikes I also have ultegra 11 speed on my titanium bike and again it’s great I don’t think I need more rings.. just my thoughts.. it’s worth watching peak torque channel review of the new sram as the hoods went quite loose.. Pete 🚴🏻👍🚴♀️
Sorry, I can’t comment on this. I do have an upgrade bike with SRAM/dics brakes and 12 speed. I love it after riding Campanella for over 25 years with rim brakes. ❤❤ personal preference. You still have to pedal the bike. 😊😊
You're right it comes down to personal preference. I choose to keep things simple. I work on Di2/eTap systems I know how nicely they shift. I had Di2 back in 2009 and had it for 8 years moving it around from bike to bike. But in the end, I just didn't feel there was any type of benefit from it. So I got rid of it and haven't wanted another electronic system again.
Thx u for your response. My local bike shop owner was the one to inspire me to upgrade after he did an annual maintenance on my original (25 year old bike). 😊
One bicycle component that does need some improvement is the bicycle tire, why are we still getting flat tires from puncture vine thorns, (goat heads)?
There are materials that resist punctures, such as kevlar that is used in bullet proof vests.
Big $.$$ being made by the industry off of tire/tube sealants and the related repair costs is probably the reason we still get goat head tire flats.
Yes! Tire design is a fantastic place to spend some R&D! Thanks for watching
There are plenty of heavy dead slow puncture resistant tires but they are miserable to ride.
@@michaelviglianco6121 It's always a trade off isn't it? Thanks for watching and commenting!
Puncture resistance is not nearly enough, your skin is puncture. We need a high degree of puncture proof, at least being able to defeat a goat head.
Please Send your tire brands and model suggestions thanks.
I Have Two Bikes. Steel Bike With Ultegra Mechanical 11-Speed And Ti Bike With Ultegra Di2 12-Speed. Both 11-34 And Really Can't Tell The Difference Between 11-Speed And 12-Speed. Di2 Is OK But Sometimes I Think I Should Have Stayed With Mechanical.
Thanks for watching! As long as you don't have to replace Di2 parts anytime soon you should be ok.
Georgie my love. Isn’t it all utter bollocks?! The rim brake bike will be in vogue next!!! Emperors new clothes piffle and nonsense. Hope you and your lovely lady are great 😊❤
It's all a scam Saz! My lovely lady and I are doing great. I hope you are as well! We should jump on the DM and catch up.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad yes!!!!!
I won't even go there with electronic shifting, discs and tubeless for road bikes, integrated cockpit nonsense etc. preaching to the choir here. But even 11 speed is too far for this retrogrouch who owns a couple of nice 11 speed mechanical road bikes (including a Ritchey). Late 90s 9 speed era stuff was peak era for me. 10 speed was the brink of the abyss, and 11 speed was the cliff dive to Sillyville, requiring new wheels, tortured cable routing inside brifters, banjo string tight front derailleur cables, increasingly finicky to set up, more fragile with thinner chains, reduced cog spacing bringing more frequent issues with derailleur adjustment, increased wheel dish resulting in weaker wheels. 9 speed was more robust, more user friendly for home mechanics, cables didn't snap inside shifters, cross compatibility with MTB drivetrains... and most of it was still beautiful even the mid-tier groups, which were affordable. Sh!+ was reparable (even Campy shifters) with available small parts. As far as performance, for 99% of non-competitive or even racers below Cat2, 9 speed gives up little or nothing to 11 speed mechanical or even modern electronic components. If you're retro-grouchy, even brifters don't have much advantage over bar end shifters, which allow for triple cranksets (assuming no Q factor issues, the only Q that bothers me is the coffee shop line for orders) and the beauty of triple cranksets with 9 speed is 42/52 chainrings as Dog intended, but with a granny bailout when the hills kick you in the knees with a reality check. 9 speed triple with a light supple steel fork will love you long time-- ever ridden a 90s OG Ritchey Road Logic, steel fork, 28mm Vittorias? Pure magic. Better yet with Veloflex tubulars on a "special" ride day? Better than an endless taco bar...
I think my 11 speed grx 2x with a 11-40 in the back is crazy good value. Bought the bike used but shifts great.
Good choice! I have an 11-40 for my 2X Ritchey Outback. I still need to install it. I haven't done anything hard enough that the 48/31 and 11-34 cassette can't handle. But I'm not a gravel rider/racer I am more of a roadie.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad I had some pretty steep climbs in Austria this spring and the 30 front and 34 back was too hard on my knees. Maby thats just my fitness level, or lack there of :-) but...spin to win?
Ha ha not to mention your bike was probably weighted down too!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad I failed at climbing the eagles nest from Hallein. Got 1250m of elevation on 15km with 34 cassette and stopped there. I need to attempt it now again. But the last few hundred meters of elevation are on gravel and much steeper. 😵😅
Please provide a link. I’m not familiar with what you are talking about
First off, I've never been a fan of the electronic drivetrains, and have no customers with it either. I've always felt that 9/10 speed were the best options we had. We could swap parts back and forth between mountain and road bikes, that covered all road conditions racing, charity rides, group rides and touring. So all of my road bikes are still Campy 10 speed, I'm also not a fan of internal routing, and quite frankly has it really slowed us down with external cables? And if you are following this, of course I want rim brakes. My bikes ride really well and I don't need anything else, or as a shop owner there isn't a whole lot that I actually like. As someone who works in the industry, isn't that a sad story? I think mountain bikes are even worse with all of the new updates, so try adding more updates to disc brakes, shifting AND suspension. It's a mess quite frankly, not only is costly for consumers, it's costly for shops... how many new tools do we have to buy ?? I'm a girl that likes tools, but some of these are simply crazy. Any way to make a long story short, "yes" I definitely agree with you and Rusty.
Vendors need to create dissatisfaction and desire to keep consumerism racing ahead. I quite like 1x11 because front derailleurs can be annoying 😊
FD can be annoying but my Dura-Ace R9100 derailleurs shift extremely precise. I put them up against anything SRAM makes electronically ... in a word they "suck"
0:10 when you said you weren’t going to do a complete a retro grouch rant… I almost disliked the video. 😂
ha ha I'm glad I did a 75% Retro Grouch to keep you interested 😊
long live the 3x8
Yes! Long live the triple!
Marketing says 12 speed is good. Chain line efficiency says otherwise. 13 and 14 speed is dream land. Can work, but performance and durability? Forget about it.
Who cares. Thanks for saying it, I'm pretty much there too. Running 10 speed 105 mechanical, bike shop owner said my bike is too old. I'm sure he would love to sell a disc brake one. Got 8,000 + miles, still the original cassette. I need a 12 speed disc brake bike, why?
you need a 12 speed disc brake bike like you need a hole in your head lol1
Why are you calling him Rusty? Just because he has a different opinion? Okay Georgie....
I honestly thought his name was Rusty. This has been covered many tunes in the comments. If you watch the video your comment doesn’t make sense. I actually agree with him. So maybe you should watch the video before commenting
Electric systems is too much money and complex for same thing action of moving a chain cog to cog for simple cable pull tight and adjust some bolts before . Reason going towards ratio technology mechanical on 1x CX/gravel bike as alloy frame is no housing stop on the side downtube for the front derailleur cable routing. Thou mech disc better than cantis. Not tried hydros yet. Forgot what road calipers break feel is like after years on cantis with the bikes all CX. Next frame is metal.
Mechanical shifting will die soon cause making something electronic is cheaper
Russ - maybe short for Russel? Rusty is a dog name.
Thanks for watching
It is planned to make all our present gear obsolete so we need all new frames, wheels and components. Electronic shifting, disc brakes, 12 sp, 13 sp etc are marginal improvements at best and in most cases no benefit at all. This is contributing to the lack of interest in cycling to new generations.
Single speeds and fixies are growing in popularity. My frame builder told me he is building more of those than geared bikes. Needing to take out a loan to buy a bicycle is what's killing the interest.
I think his name is just Russ, not Rusty.
This has been discussed and over in the comment section. I made an honest mistake- I actually thought his name was Rusty. 😮
Thanks for watching let’s discuss the content of the video that’s far more important 😊
history time. Campy NOT Sram was the company that always introduced more speeds in their groupsets. first to 9/10/11/12/13 speed road(12sp) and gravel(13) the reason is obvious yet you do not state it. more gears in the middle to keep cadence in the sweet sport. Back in the 80/90's mechs would need to change gearing during the tour to transition from flat to mountain stages. Sram is moving to a point where frnt derailleur will be not needed. now i am now no fan of Sram but they are now innovators in the mnt/gravel space. you state we do not need this tech. ok why don't you go back to friction downtube shifters and 5 speeds LOL . fyi if you like metal bikes go titanium
My Dura-Ace R9100 11 speed mechanical with external cables and housing on my Ritchey Road Logic is amazing. I tune bikes all day long from all the drivetrains. I'm not impressed. FYI - I do have a Bianchi from 1987 with downtube shifters and ride it from time to time in group rides. They are always shocked when I"m right there with them. Like what they think it's about the bike no it's about the rider. Titanium is completely overrated and overpriced compared to a great steel frame for a 1/4 of the price. Titanium does not offer 4X better bike for the price. Yep I have ridden Ti I owned a few and sold them.
Companies should stop at 12 speed. Going beyond that is pointless.
Agreed!
Do you have beef with Russ at pathlesspedaled?
Did you watching the video?
Hate to say it, but Mark sounds like a lost cause. I'd be surprised if your bike wasn't lighter than his minus bottles, tools, and maybe your aluminum braking surface. Maybe he'd come around on a longer test ride where the comfort gains would shine through.
But, what do I know, my only current bike is a steel fixed gear that weighs 22 or 23 lbs with saddle bag, and I've never ridden carbon. 3x7 and 3x8 are the only geared bikes I've ridden, and that 3x7 allows me to tow around 1000+ lbs when pedicabbing.
Mark is an old friend and a good guy! But his bike equipment priorities are just different than mine. While he is still chasing lightweight and "light and stiff" I have left all that behind and now all I am concerned about is comfort, durability and ease of maintenance and peace of mind when I travel.
My Ritchey would still be heavier than his bike when stripped down of bottles and tool kits but the only difference is the weight of the frame we had the same Dura-Ace R9100 group, saddles, stems and bars and wheels were comparable. The Ritchey would have been 500-600 grams more ... when considering the system weight (bike, rider, tool kits, bottles, nutrition and phone in pocket etc) it is really insignificant. Less than 1% difference between us in system weight.
Thanks for watching!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Ah, I was picturing an all integrated aero disc brake bike. He's not that far gone, then, just a weight weenie. Got to give him that, a carbon frame will likely be lighter. Still, on a long ride comfort gains will outweigh that 1% of system weight.
@@redkeyspoke Yep a BH Ultralight frame rim brake so nice and light but as I said in the video it's too stiff and he has complained about it for years. He finally put "wider" tires on the bike and said wow what a difference. But it's an "old" bike so the tire capacity is only like 25 front/rear or something like that. Then I said yeah I'm riding 30's on this bike and I'm super comfy.
12.13,14 no one needs this.just ripp off business for snobs
100%
Just ride
I love mechanical. I have no interest in electronic gear. Simplicity is utopia.
Correct mechanical shifts amazing ... you just need to set it up right like you would with Di2 or eTap AXS.
I don't understand this. Are we saying that a modern bike is not better than a 20 or 30 year old bike? That seems a bit far fetched. So if we agree modern bikes are better, how can you not understand the benefits of those improvements? The logic in this video is flawed, no?
Thanks for watching! I will highlight your comment in my reaction video. Why do you consider a modern bike better? What is better about them? List the things that are better? Do you really consider what is going on in the bike industry improvements? List the things that are improvements.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad That would be quite an honor. As for "what's going on in the bike industry", we may see that differently. These small, incremental changes may seem pointless by themselves... but over the years improvement builds on improvement until modern is unquestionably better imo. We can't compare every modern bike with every retro bike, but we can say if you want a lightweight bike, you can get a lighter modern bike. If you want an aero bike, you can get a more aero modern bike. If you want comfort, you can get a more comfortable modern bike, especially given the handlebar and seat post suspension on some bikes. Disc brakes can be tested/proven to stop in shorter distances. Modern drivetrains shift faster and more reliably while having more gears to maintain smoother cadence. Here's a Shimano 12-sp 11-30 cassette: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27-30. That 16 tooth cog seems to be praised universally by road cyclists, myself included... and it would not be possible without 12-sp. With 13-sp we could get an 18 tooth cog, which I would heartily welcome.
You and I are about the same age. My name is also George btw. We both remember cars from the 70's and 80's. Remember manual roll-up windows? I didn't mind that but I like electric windows better. Remember carburetion and associated difficulties? Again, that was not the end of the world but I do like fuel injection better. This is how I see what's going on in the bike industry. We might say nobody asked for those things in cars but if you give it a chance, you might like it 😃