This is the exact kind of tutorial I've been looking for to help me with maneuverability. Thanks for making this! I'll be sharing it with my pals who are also learning how to play.
Appreciate the tutorial on this. I've used thrusters before but even though I knew concept of them turning the ship, I didn't know how to properly apply that and I'm learned more about how the directional thrusters work. I tended to use Gyros a lot more for my ship but thanks to this, i can make some more effective ships with thrusters. Turned my big ship's pitch from 0.05 to 0.26. That may seem like a subtle change but that's a big difference when you have a bigger ship. Nice job on this!
You have some good points.. but it can be taken a little farther particularly for large ships: (small ships like you said pretty much can do anything) Best practices for min/maxing rotation on large ships 1) Put thrusters on the external of your ship, but do not add blocks (even frames) to extend them for more leverage - the added weight of the thruster farther out is actually more detrimental than the additional leverage. (course armor is sometimes needed farther out.. but you just have to live with that.) 2) Prefer thrusters over directional thrusters, a normal thruster can thrust in 3 directions at a time.. so it has 3x power.. a direction thruster can only thrust in one direction at a time at 2.5x power. (3x is better than 2.5x) 3) Prefer directional thrusters over gyros for "shoring" up rotation in specific directions. If your ship is a cube or a sphere, thrusters are probably enough, but usually a ship will have more weight along one axis or different weight over all three axis. Use directional thrusters to give those long axis more rotation. 4) Lastly is gyros, they actually should not be centralized as they are quite light (centralize heavier things like generators/shields), but usually a directional thruster will be a better option. Thrusters can provide both rotation and translation -- gyros only provide rotation. (That said I sometimes still use gyros in longest axis of my ship as they do add less weight and can be placed in less optimal positions.) 5) You did mention center of mass, and you should always try to break up a thruster over the center of mass -- i.e. if a thruster crosses center of mass in any direction, split the thruster into two or more thrusters and use mirroring along the axis in that direction(s) (x, y and/or z). Splitting a thruster does not reduce thrust -- just hp (which can be a reason not to split.) Since a thruster can only thrust in one axis direction at a time (up or down + back or forward + left or right), when it crosses the relevant dimensional center of mass... it works against itself or not at all. Of course it can still provide translation. BTW, these are just best practices, it is not always possible or even desirable to follow them as you design your own ships, but it gives a bit more priority to usage of these tools. As a final note, you may also wish to have more reversing thrust -- so directional thrusters can help with slowing down. But once again, split them along the X axis if they cross it.. they might not provide much x axis rotation, but they will still provide a bit. (Same goes for Y axis.)
Hey Duke great information, I had in mind to talk about breaking up thrusters but in the end I just cut it from the video. In most of my builds I just use thrusters but I couldn't say that, it would be a very short video haha. This topic was hard to do because so many people are going to have a different view point, not saying that there is anything wrong with it. Anyway thanks mate. =)
Thank you! I was pulling my hair out because as I was adding directional thrusters to my first larger ship, which is about 1500m long, at some point the provided thrust got lower and lower. At first I thought that the solution to it was, that thrusters have to be cubic for their best bonus. But your 5th point was actually the cause. Because I put the thruster along the center in length it crossed the y-axis, thus not working at all... Now I only need to solve my credit earning problem. Have been playing Avorion for 2 days now and have just reached the outside center area. Currently doing well materialwise with two auto mining ships. Want to get a passive credit income as well, but for that I need about 10m. Currently stuck around 2-3m. I am saving for my first station / factory.
Dude the detail of this tutorial! 👌 you just got another sub. Thank you for this. I had the concept but this put it into something that's easier to understand
Hi, I'm a new Avorion since 2.0 I made my first 6 subsystems and I always wonder how to improve The ship braking thrusters. I have played SE for many years but this game is a change of pace. thanks, it not going to stop on a dime but maybe I get it to stop quicker. xD
its funny you say armor blocks reduce manuvering factors because I am currently attempting possibly my largest build for a big frieghter and I'm having problems filling empty spaces of the hull with important guts.
and THrusters dont care if you slap armor on top of them? DO they ever stop working when you put something in front or on them? And so thrusters in the middle of the ship are just plain a bad idea? Interesting, cuz my one ship has some along the top and bottom of the center.
You can cover thrusters up and they will still work. Thrusters in the middle/ centre is a bad idea because they will work against themselves. Try to have them away from the COM.
Thanks for this. I have a rather large ship made of trinium and xanion that has 56.4k hp and it’s funny to turn as there is a delay from my mouse movement to the ship actually starting to turn due to the mass even with a radiant of 1.98.
Can you rotate directional thrusters when they are already in place in your ship? Or do you have to delete and hope you can replace them with the the correct direction ones.
@@gary0073 It does matter... My statement can't be both true and not true. It's either one or the other. Gryo's have to be large enough and close to the center mass of your ship, which is depicted in the ship building screen by the red, green, and blue cross that appears at the center of mass of your ship. As you add blocks to your ship, this cross will shift as the center mass of the ship also shifts. For gyros to work properly, they have to be big enough and close to this point to achieve the maximum effectiveness from these blocks. Thrusters on the other hand work in the opposite fashion, in order to get the max out of those blocks they need to be further away from the ship's center of mass.
@@Olie956 have u try to put gyros down on your ship?Test the placement of them and u will see the same results. Why I think you are better off putting them in the COM or close to that point is because thrusters don't work as well.
@@gary0073 Yes, I have tried putting gyros on my ships. Again If you aren't placing those blocks at the correct size and near the ships center of mass, indicated by the little cross in the ship builder, they don't work as well.
So glad to see someone NOT repeating the Avorion myth of gyros at the CoM rubbish! lol Of coures gyros have mass and adding them away from the CoM will make thrusters less effective but that goes for any block you place and since gyros are super light (5t for a 1x1x1 vs 30t for hull) you would actually be better kepping those heavy blocks central and adding gyros on the outside. Great little tutorial as usual, hope you keep doing more!
@@col.firefly You can try a simple test. with x-sym on, extend a framework arm from the root block and put a thruster on the end. Now use middle snap and put a 3x3x3 gyro on top of the thruster and a 1.5x1.5x2 hull block on the root block, both are 135t mass. check you stats and now swap the gyro and hull blocks. Your stats dont change because the mass distrubution has not changed proving once and for all that gyro placement does not matter, only mass distrubution. Edit - I think i did this with Titanium blocks, other materials will give different numbers but the principle is the same
@Guru Amirite This is what i did and you can place the gyro and "test" mass in any two places to start. you have a set of numbers for your rotations. Now swap them and the stats don't change. Be nice to have someone else confirm this.
it helped me a lot. Thanks Garry.
I just wished people watched you more frequently. You have answers for many questions people ask at YTrs playthrough
Отличное видео . не нужно повторять одно и тоже - по два раза.
has anyone tried to make a borg cube
Yes they have... cubes are cool.
Does covering thrusters ports do anything?
Nope just protects them
@@gary0073 thanks. Changes how I build things quite a bit.. I was under the impression blocked ports wouldn't do things.
9:06 informative video but you contradict yourself when talking about gyro. And yes they indeed benefit from building closer to the center of the ship
This is the exact kind of tutorial I've been looking for to help me with maneuverability. Thanks for making this! I'll be sharing it with my pals who are also learning how to play.
would be nice to have a 2.0 if there was any changes
Appreciate the tutorial on this. I've used thrusters before but even though I knew concept of them turning the ship, I didn't know how to properly apply that and I'm learned more about how the directional thrusters work. I tended to use Gyros a lot more for my ship but thanks to this, i can make some more effective ships with thrusters.
Turned my big ship's pitch from 0.05 to 0.26. That may seem like a subtle change but that's a big difference when you have a bigger ship. Nice job on this!
I'm happy to have helped 😊😊.
You have some good points.. but it can be taken a little farther particularly for large ships: (small ships like you said pretty much can do anything)
Best practices for min/maxing rotation on large ships
1) Put thrusters on the external of your ship, but do not add blocks (even frames) to extend them for more leverage - the added weight of the thruster farther out is actually more detrimental than the additional leverage. (course armor is sometimes needed farther out.. but you just have to live with that.)
2) Prefer thrusters over directional thrusters, a normal thruster can thrust in 3 directions at a time.. so it has 3x power.. a direction thruster can only thrust in one direction at a time at 2.5x power. (3x is better than 2.5x)
3) Prefer directional thrusters over gyros for "shoring" up rotation in specific directions. If your ship is a cube or a sphere, thrusters are probably enough, but usually a ship will have more weight along one axis or different weight over all three axis. Use directional thrusters to give those long axis more rotation.
4) Lastly is gyros, they actually should not be centralized as they are quite light (centralize heavier things like generators/shields), but usually a directional thruster will be a better option. Thrusters can provide both rotation and translation -- gyros only provide rotation. (That said I sometimes still use gyros in longest axis of my ship as they do add less weight and can be placed in less optimal positions.)
5) You did mention center of mass, and you should always try to break up a thruster over the center of mass -- i.e. if a thruster crosses center of mass in any direction, split the thruster into two or more thrusters and use mirroring along the axis in that direction(s) (x, y and/or z). Splitting a thruster does not reduce thrust -- just hp (which can be a reason not to split.) Since a thruster can only thrust in one axis direction at a time (up or down + back or forward + left or right), when it crosses the relevant dimensional center of mass... it works against itself or not at all. Of course it can still provide translation.
BTW, these are just best practices, it is not always possible or even desirable to follow them as you design your own ships, but it gives a bit more priority to usage of these tools.
As a final note, you may also wish to have more reversing thrust -- so directional thrusters can help with slowing down. But once again, split them along the X axis if they cross it.. they might not provide much x axis rotation, but they will still provide a bit. (Same goes for Y axis.)
Hey Duke great information, I had in mind to talk about breaking up thrusters but in the end I just cut it from the video. In most of my builds I just use thrusters but I couldn't say that, it would be a very short video haha. This topic was hard to do because so many people are going to have a different view point, not saying that there is anything wrong with it.
Anyway thanks mate. =)
@@gary0073 iit was a good video and focused on the most important things.;.. i just wantted to add a bit more information -- maybe too much.
Great info!
Like you said, there are often other considerations when building but it's nice to have a solid place to start.
Thank you! I was pulling my hair out because as I was adding directional thrusters to my first larger ship, which is about 1500m long, at some point the provided thrust got lower and lower. At first I thought that the solution to it was, that thrusters have to be cubic for their best bonus. But your 5th point was actually the cause. Because I put the thruster along the center in length it crossed the y-axis, thus not working at all...
Now I only need to solve my credit earning problem. Have been playing Avorion for 2 days now and have just reached the outside center area. Currently doing well materialwise with two auto mining ships. Want to get a passive credit income as well, but for that I need about 10m. Currently stuck around 2-3m. I am saving for my first station / factory.
@@o6dukeleto nah all good if some is keen to learn more they will see your comment and hopefully apply it 😎
Dude the detail of this tutorial! 👌 you just got another sub. Thank you for this. I had the concept but this put it into something that's easier to understand
Nice Gary, Teaching us to fish so we can feed ourselves. Cheers man you did a great job!
Are thrusters still effective if they're encapsulated in armor, or built internally?
Yes
@@gary0073 Thanks for replying Gary! I've been watching my way through all your videos and they've been pretty helpful!
@@ZeroAtlas thanks for that. I'll most likely update all my guides once I feel better.
Hi, I'm a new Avorion since 2.0 I made my first 6 subsystems and I always wonder how to improve The ship braking thrusters. I have played SE for many years but this game is a change of pace. thanks, it not going to stop on a dime but maybe I get it to stop quicker. xD
Nice video. As far as I can tell gyro blocks look to be fit for civilian mining or cargo ships that would typically not have armor.
its funny you say armor blocks reduce manuvering factors because I am currently attempting possibly my largest build for a big frieghter and I'm having problems filling empty spaces of the hull with important guts.
of course its a combat frieghter so I need it to be armored up everywhere.
if only we could have break engines...
Thanks for your vide :-)
I didn't know Avorion respected this much physics, awesome tutorial!
and THrusters dont care if you slap armor on top of them? DO they ever stop working when you put something in front or on them?
And so thrusters in the middle of the ship are just plain a bad idea? Interesting, cuz my one ship has some along the top and bottom of the center.
You can cover thrusters up and they will still work. Thrusters in the middle/ centre is a bad idea because they will work against themselves. Try to have them away from the COM.
a very well done vid. thumbs up
Thanks for this. I have a rather large ship made of trinium and xanion that has 56.4k hp and it’s funny to turn as there is a delay from my mouse movement to the ship actually starting to turn due to the mass even with a radiant of 1.98.
Yeah the Dev have said they don't want a 500k volume star destroyer doing barrel rolls lol.
Can you rotate directional thrusters when they are already in place in your ship? Or do you have to delete and hope you can replace them with the the correct direction ones.
Delete and rotate.
Very helpful, thank you!
You're welcome!
Thumbs up, just for the Intro. 😁
Lol yeah I made that myself 😊with Microsoft paint.
Thank you Gary great help
Np mate
Good show
Thank you
Good job Gary!
7:00 - Gyro placement matters. It has to stay as close as possible to the ship's center of mass.
Go and try to put gyro's down on a ship it doesn't matter, but your statement can still be true.
@@gary0073 It does matter... My statement can't be both true and not true. It's either one or the other.
Gryo's have to be large enough and close to the center mass of your ship, which is depicted in the ship building screen by the red, green, and blue cross that appears at the center of mass of your ship. As you add blocks to your ship, this cross will shift as the center mass of the ship also shifts. For gyros to work properly, they have to be big enough and close to this point to achieve the maximum effectiveness from these blocks. Thrusters on the other hand work in the opposite fashion, in order to get the max out of those blocks they need to be further away from the ship's center of mass.
@@Olie956 have u try to put gyros down on your ship?Test the placement of them and u will see the same results. Why I think you are better off putting them in the COM or close to that point is because thrusters don't work as well.
@@gary0073 Yes, I have tried putting gyros on my ships. Again If you aren't placing those blocks at the correct size and near the ships center of mass, indicated by the little cross in the ship builder, they don't work as well.
@@Olie956 Sorry mate that's not true.
So glad to see someone NOT repeating the Avorion myth of gyros at the CoM rubbish! lol
Of coures gyros have mass and adding them away from the CoM will make thrusters less effective but that goes for any block you place and since gyros are super light (5t for a 1x1x1 vs 30t for hull) you would actually be better kepping those heavy blocks central and adding gyros on the outside.
Great little tutorial as usual, hope you keep doing more!
You made my day 😁
Now it all makes sense! I noticed the same thing with the stats changing when I put the gyros further away, but couldn't figure out why!
@@col.firefly You can try a simple test.
with x-sym on, extend a framework arm from the root block and put a thruster on the end.
Now use middle snap and put a 3x3x3 gyro on top of the thruster and a 1.5x1.5x2 hull block on the root block, both are 135t mass.
check you stats and now swap the gyro and hull blocks.
Your stats dont change because the mass distrubution has not changed proving once and for all that gyro placement does not matter, only mass distrubution.
Edit - I think i did this with Titanium blocks, other materials will give different numbers but the principle is the same
@Guru Amirite This is what i did and you can place the gyro and "test" mass in any two places to start. you have a set of numbers for your rotations.
Now swap them and the stats don't change.
Be nice to have someone else confirm this.