BISMARCK - (REALISTIC) FINAL STAND VS KING GEORGE V & RODNEY - Atlantic Fleet Gameplay
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- In reality the Bismarcks port rudder was jammed in a 10 degree angle. Is she able to fight with this handicap in Atlantic Fleet?
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Tbh, even in a single ship engagement a fully worked up KGV should make reasonably comfortable work of a Bismarck class and assuming the German is mad enough to stick around for a slugging match with a Nelson Class, it's very much a foregone conclusion.
Bismarck had no choice but to stick around in the final battle, because her steering was badly damaged.
@@georgecoventry8441 Quite! Or KGV and certainly not Rodney would ever have been able to bring her to battle anyway, unless Lutjens had unaccountably taken leave of his senses and developed a death wish.
@@squirepraggerstope3591 - True enough. His orders were to avoid battle with British capital ships, sink merchant ships, and bring his ship home safely, so the last thing in the world he'd have done if he'd had any choice about it at all was to engage in battle with KGV and Rodney. He had earlier disengaged with the wounded Prince of Wales for the same reason (when he could probably have pursued and sunk her, given that she was a at a clear disadvantage at the time).
This game is pure fantasy. In reality, Bismarck never stood a chance.
Absolutely. In reality the Royal Navy just kept its distance until the Bismarck was a floating wreck. According to the last expeditions to the wreck the Bis was scuttled, but it doesn't really matter who sunk it in the end, because it was destroyed as a fighting ship long before it sunk.
That's Atlantic Fleet for you
according to wehraboo apologist it was scuttled, its hard to call it scuttled when its already a barely floating abbatoir
@@HistoryGameV
This sim totally fails to take into account the problems in the final battle caused by the fact that Bismarck's crew were physically exhausted. They had had little sleep for four days, and Captain Vian's all-night destroyer attack gave them no rest. This affected all aspects of her ability to fight, including almost certainly, her inability to get decent range-finding. Also, different than this sim shows, Bismarck was almost completely unmaneuverable.If Admiral Tovey had even imagined that the fight could be close, he would have called for the additional support of the battlecruiser Renown, and her six 15-inch guns, which was just over the horizon.
Very interesting battle, especially as in the end, the Bismarck was simply up against too many enemies. Incidentally, I was surprised to see that the KGV and the Rodney did not steer diverging courses, to catch you in a crossfire and force you to divide your fire between two widely spaced targets. Recall that doing so was part of the standard Royal Navy battle orders when encountering a technologically superior (but single) commerce raider, with a larger number of smaller and less powerful ships (of course this was exactly what was done in the Battle of the River Plate against the Graf Spee). Entertaining video though... keep up the good work!
the two brit' ships would have attacked from either side & not from one side only as the Bismarck was only able to turn to port & no manoeuvre properly so it was an uneven battle ., not only that but there must have been a blind man directing fire on brit ships .
No navy fights fair dumbass
The AI in this game never fires as accurately as an experienced player can, and it also often approaches bow-on which means the rear turrets are unable to engage the enemy. An experienced player turns ASAP to engage both the front and rear turrets and make use of their full firepower. Rodney never once turned to provide her 3rd turret a chance to fire! And KGV only finally did so when both front turrets were knocked out....and even then delayed doing so for 2 or 3 turns.
The correct term is "biplane" for a plane with 2 main wings. And the "bow" of the ship is pronounced like "bau" in German. You did an excellent job commanding Bismarck with the damaged steering problem simulated!!! Your gunnery was extremely good, and you did a lot of damage before being sunk. The AI made the usual mistake of steering straight at you, thus masking the rear turrets on both British battleships and reducing their firepower by at least 1/3. The AI almost always makes that mistake in this game.
Congratulations on making the British gunners look so naff
Hillarious - you restaged Bismark's last stand and almost won. Luckily the real Rodney (never mind G5) was rather more effective than your efforts lol. Now a match with an undamaged Bismark might be more interesting. Still unwinable I'd guess.
He wasn't commanding the British ships, so Rodney's efforts were not his, they were that of the AI. He was only managing the Bismarck.
seems like the Brits used their torpedo to help you with the counter-listing :D
Wow hello :)
Wow.... well done and I wonder about your tactics.... The moment KG lost the fron turrets I would have switched to the other one...
Same here. Other than that, Bismarck's tactics were quite good, I think.
To make up for inferior enemy AI, turn on wind effects and elite enemy gunnery. Even with that there is something wrong with the allied ships gunnery in this particular scenario. You really shouldn't be able to win as lone Bismarck, even assuming your crew was able to repair the rudder damage and you had full maneuverability, the odds are overwhelming against you. When I first played this scenario, I expected to just be able to take out HMS Rodney and maybe do some damage or get lucky against KGV.
Nelson scored the first hits, if you had of been there the whole Scapa flow fleet would have been sunk
This goes to show how unrealistic these simulations can be. Firstly in the final battle the Bismark could only turn one way because her rudders were jammed hard at 12 degrees indicated (starboard). If you look at images of the Bismark wreck you'll see that both rudders were smashed into the center propeller. Not only was ALL rudder control frozen but maximum speed was reduced significantly due to the loss of thrust from the center shaft. Attempts were made to steer using the port and starboard shafts but without success. Differential shaft steering was not able to overcome the bias of the smashed rudders.
In the actual final battle, Bismark was unable to score a single hit from her main battery on any of the British ships. That's likely because she could not stop turning while laying her guns.
Look at 6:20 to see the damage to Bismark's rudder: ua-cam.com/video/LJwXFlpv4Ok/v-deo.html
You know they are actually not sure if this damage was taken during the final battle? Because the Germans sent down divers after the Bismarck was hit by the torpedo and didn't repord anything but one jammed rudder. Also, Bismarck was not able to score hits because the very first hits she took herself blew off the rangefinders, so every turret had to calculate its target solution itself...which is virtually impossible if every gun is firing at the same target and the ship is turning at the same time.
A ship can still more or less turn by playing around with the propeller shafts.
@@adamtruong1759 yeah but its extremely ineffective
@@karengrant9671 True, but it's still turning.
Very good Video! And a great idea!! But it s very close!
Good show. The error in German thinking here is that this kind of result could be thought of anything but a defeat. In fact they were so outnumbered that anything that resulted in elimination of Bismark, that did not eliminate the RN's ability to contain the pocket battleships and the Tirpitz, while inspiring, can only be a defeat. With the entry of the USN in the fight, the German Navy has only submarines in the fight and Airpower and insecure communications will slowly reduce them to an ineffective force.
The German surface Navy was so badly outnumbered in that war that all they could really do (after the Norwegian invasion was completed) was act as commerce raiders....and, to quote Admiral Raeder, "show that they know how to die bravely". And that's exactly what they did. It's what you *have* to do when you are seriously outnumbered (and therefore blockaded) in a naval war. It's the only real option. They did what they could...........with what little they had. That does not indicate an error in thinking. It indicates the practical strategic realities of the naval situation at the time. Germany was primarily a land and air power in WWII, and did not have the means (other than the U-Boats) of seriously threatening the Allies at sea in a lengthy conflict. Now, the U-Boats....if there'd been more of them in service at the beginning of the war in '39....there lay a real danger to the UK, and Churchill knew it. He said that the U-Boat campaign was the only thing that really frightened him during 1939-42. After about mid-1942 it was clear that the Allies were going to win in the long run.
Try this using Bismarck's secondary and and tertiary guns on the cruisers and keeping those 15" focused on bbs. Had you done that it might have been possible to be facing only cruisers towards the end or at least have a better chance of it.
that would be great if you could target different units with different guns on the same turn, but you can't do that in this game.
sooo many people asked them to fix that in a patch... but they never did.
you're stuck either firing your big guns, or your little ones... and why would you waste a turn firing your little guns?
@@thomasneal9291 - Exactly. They should have made it possible, as you say, with a patch.
what killed you in the end? the mining effect of the AP shells and/or underwater penetration?
The underwater penetration, I would say. While the pumps were still active, torpedo damage is far too devastating in Atlantic Fleet. As I sank only shortly after the torp hit, I think the underwater hits were the final nail in the coffin.
well, I meant underwater penetration of the shells, cause they were short.
the torp hit right on the armor belt and torpedo bulge, so it shouldn't have done too much.
Yes, I think it were the underwater "penetrations" (I think the game uses an HP system and close misses inflict HP damage). Together with the damage taken by the torpedo on the same side that might have been too much for the HP pool of the port side. As I said, torpedos are far, far to strong in this game and sadly still are in the new game of the same devs, Cold Waters.
#1 BIPLANE
#2 Bismarck has more range and speed so use them.
#3 ONLY PUMMEL A BATTLE SHIP UNTIL HER PRIMARY GUNS NO LONGER FIRE, THEN MOVE TO NEXT LARGEST DOWN THE LIST.
As the bismarck is hit by his stern so and flooding wile still able to pump some out but it slows the ship dramatically down. In not damaged condition and if the rudder wasn't jammed then the bismarck could sail away from them.
As for this not accurate version of game it is hardly a simulator.
I done this battle 10x and I only sunk 3 ships but never escaped sinking with the bismarck
I think you made a serious mistake ignoring Rodney for as long as you did. She scored the majority of serious hit on you. I think you should have shifted fire to her after knocking out king George the first time.
Agreed!
fortunately the british gunners were able to shoot a lot better than seen here. Unable to change course predicting where she would be when the shells landing was easy. Bismarck straddled the charging rodney once and that was it.An early salvo destroyed bismarck's rangefinders. they british ships were scoring repeated full salvo hits after a few tries. once the armament was knocked out torpedos ended the fight. Its a pity dorsetshire and maori received a false warning of u boats around. cost the lives of hundreds of survivors. After a ship is sunk convention say you try to rescue survivors.
Rodney was a weird looking ship but those guns were brutal!
Unusual, is more like it, but the important thing about her are her 16" main armament + torpedoes.
Damn it. Doppeldecker =/= twinplane. It's biplane, of course. *walks off to buy an aviation tech dictionary*
at least you didn't say double plane :D
Arado
Nise shooting on Bismarck behalf
Rodney needs to open all arcs and, for that matter so does KGV. THAT would be realistic.
Can the bbs use their secondaries on the cruisers or don't those operate in the game?
+George King Sadly it is not possible to use primary and secondary armament in the same turn. Otherwise I would have been blazing away at these cruisers even with the 20mm AA guns. xD And yeah, both BBs should have been turning out to get all guns on target. The AI is not bad...but not that good either.
I mean just getting those remaining 7 heavy guns on the Bismarck might have helped. Thirty-three + increase in heavy shell on the way.
Dorsetshire capt. is certifiable.
The only reason you got the results that you did is that the programs AI for your opponents guns absolutely suck. It would be better for a player on player scenario than player on program.
That's what I thought. In reality Bismarck scored no hits with any calibre on any of the RN ships, and after 15 minutes lost both forward turrets to a 16" hit from Rodney. Settings are obviously favouring Bismarck's gunnery unrealistically.
Yes, the AI is poor in this game, both at maneuvering and at targeting. An experienced player can usually defeat the AI ships. A novice player may have some trouble doing so for awhile, until learning how to target accurately.
@@mickb1214 - No, it is simply that an *experienced* human player can fire more accurately than the AI can. It has nothing to do with the settings of the ships' guns. A human player on either side can usually defeat the AI opponents, unless heavily outnumbered or outgunned.
i JUST want to know how to penetrate any ship turrnts
but worng step of ignoring rodney
realistic....its not circling at low speed.....unable to control course and position.
This is crap. Everyone knows the Bismark failed to score a single hit on either Rodney or KGV in her final battle.
Yes, it's utter nonsense - historically, tactically and technically.
The real bismarck did have more damage. Rudder stuck, middle propeller stuck, loosing vital oil and her radar was not working right course with the attack with prinz Eugen on the Hood and Prins of Wales the Prinz Eugen had to give Bismarck firing directions course the Bismarck's was damages by bad enginering when the Bismarck fired all guns the shock to the radar was so great that it broke down. The fixed that for the Tirpitz.
But how ever the history went the lost of sailors in every battleship was dramaticly. The hood only 4 survivors and Bismarck 144 men only.
Your obsession with KG5 when Rodney had 9 x16" and super heavyweight torpedoes makes no sense - In the real deal Bismarck saw the treat and straddled the Rodney but its main bridge were taken out early on and a by a 14"KG5 and one of the 8" heavy cruiser shells took out the main range finder while the forward turrets fell victim to a 16" shell from Rodney - for the next year or so Rodney would be kept on a short lead just in case the T
This is wrong on so many levels. Why you would waste your main armament on cruisers is unbelievable. They cruisers would have to close the range so much for torpedo attack that the secondary armament could deal with them. While messing around with the cruisers the Battleships are finding their range. Tactics are a mess.
because in 10 tries it were always the cruisers that sank me in the end, only if I hit the one on port with the first salvos I had chance to come as far as I did. Try it with a damaged rudder and wind influencing your shells for yourself.
Oh and you can't use secondaries and main armament in the same turn, so using it would waste one turn of main battery fire.
"Why you would waste your main armament on cruisers is unbelievable."
it doesn't work like that in this game.
because the devs wanted the smaller ships to still be able to do damage to the larger ones, even destroyers with "armor piercing" shells can sink a battleship with enough hits. especially at long range, where the shells hit the deck instead of the side armor.
that just ramps up with the cruisers. some of the heavy british cruisers fielded 11" guns, and heavy cruisers in Atlantic fleet can easily sink a BB. I know, I used heavy and light cruisers with destroyers as smoke screens to take out british battleships at least 6 times during one BOA campaign run. 1 heavy cruiser, 1 light as a distraction, and 2 destroyers, one to smoke screen the heavy cruiser, and one to bum rush the BB and either act as another distraction, or get a torpedo salvo in. you just focus fire on the primary turrets of the BB with your heavy cruiser, and on the superstructure and radar towers with your light cruiser. if you can take out one of the radar towers early, the BB will almost never hit your heavy cruiser.
out of 7 attempts, I only lost to a BB once with that set up, and that was because the BB got a lucky shot in the opening salvo and completely destroyed my heavy cruiser.
point being... you cannot ignore the heavy cruisers in this game.
it really pains me to watch all these noob videos on this game. When KGV was badly hurt, switch to Rodney. What hurts you more, 4X14inch or 9x16inch? Also, why keep turning so that you eventually put your forward batteries out of action against enemy BB's.
Well, I told you why in the first 2 minutes. Also, KGV guns have higher penetration at this short range and are therefor more dangerous.
@@HistoryGameV they dont, they also have a smaller bursting charge and being less than half in number, the guns of KGV are less effective in this situation than those of the Rodney
Rodney and nelson were my favourite ww2 ships. Look so cool
Der namen sind Biplane oder zweidecke
Bravo
missed 5 turns to shoot at rodney
And why don't they use all turrets against Bismarck?
turning messes up targeting and the course tracking
Because the AI is stupid and keeps approaching bow-on instead of turning a bit to one side to enable all the main guns to fire. I've seen the AI make this same mistake literally hundreds of times now when playing this game, and it really helps the human player to win against the AI. Always turn ASAP to unmask all the turrets! It only requires about a 30 or 35 degree turn.
don't guess how far your shots should range. use the range finder and shot maps.
get good with those, and you rarely miss. the rangefinder gives you a quick estimate of approximately how short or long you were on your last shot, and you can see exactly how much distance you and your target have traveled since your last shot with the map and shot tracker, and make adjustments. never ever rely on the computer estimate. it often is wayyy off. even after 5 straight turns shooting at the same target. you should have gotten the george in this fight right after taking out the heavy cruiser. but you missed...3 times... because you didn't use the rangefinder and map. even so, once you took out both front turrets, you should have left the george and focused on the rodney. you know you can actually zoom in and aim directly at turrets, right?
still, I don't see how this is a normally winnable battle, even with a fully functioning Bismark. the Bis is just not that tough in this game. you might want to mod it to have the proper armor figures relative to what is being shot at it, then you might have a chance.
Thanks for the input about the shot map, I haven't really used it until now.
For the Bis, I won the battle without a damaged rudder quite a few times. It is rather easy, turn hard to starboard and start blazing away at the Rodney, aim for the turrers. When she is done, switch your fire to the KGV...but only then, because the Rodney got torpedo launchers. She has to be dead in the water or sinking. Hammer the KGV until either all guns are knocked out or she is sinking, and then wipe the floor with the cruisers.
yup. the default setup for the 'sink the bismark' mission is easily winnable playing the german side, even on the hardest difficulty settings.
the only real challenge is what you are trying to do; with the bismark alone. i found all the standard scenarios to be far far too easy.
Secondary guns on the bismarck are sleeping
Sadly you can't fire secondaries in the same turn, so it would be a waste.
SpadeAsInAce: You heard it here first, within the first 20 seconds, Hjalfnar is copying Jingles
Twin plane? I think you mean biplane
Actually, on my german channel I did what he did only days before he failed. xD But I thought, as the old man was some kind of teacher for my WoWs skills, I might return the favour. And yeah...I meant biplane...-.- *embarrassed*
I started watching your german version. I have to teach myself more german before i understand it though. Why don't you record your livestream from your perspective and upload it?
I recorded parts of the yesterday livestream and will upload it in the next days. Actually, today I am going to stream my own livestream, for the first time in 2 months...finally got my new connection activated.
Hjalfnar International Reason being, nothing against your other videos, but my interest in tanks aircraft and warship trump's that of pre Great War combat.
i purchased this game and i'm having BIG fun with it. BUT: it takes in no account the use of secondary and tertiary armament in the same turn not only for battleships but also for cruisers and destroyers; it doesn't consider the rate of fire of the guns. i mean, after all, Bismarck's modern 380 could fire at at least twice the rate of fire of Rodney's 16" and secondary (and cruisers') gun would do even better. Furthermore, i regularly play havoc on u-boats with torpedoes with my destroyers, while depth charges and hedegehog are almost useless and, lastly, the A.I. is too stupid: no difficulty in crossing their T, they point straight at you, they never open their A arcs and seemingly always try ramming you. No admiral would fight large caliber guns at less than 15000 yds. , at least in daylight. I liked these big ships for fifty years by now and this game is eye candy to me, but defining it "realistic" is waay too big a word for it!!!
you're a better shot than the Bismarck crew was in real life, and the AI you're playing is not very good.
overall i think this game is masturbatory fantasy for Nazi fanbois
What a bunch of nonsense! Your Bismarck was not unbeatable or unsinkable.. obviously. The Brits pounded it and then torpedoes finished it off. Get over it already.....it never stood a chance thanks to the Prince Of Wales performance earlier in the battle. KGVs were the better ships overall. Google it and see....and nothing built by man in those days could have withstood that beating it endured. So spare me the scuttling "fantasy" as well.....
Most also ignore that the Bismarck started sinking fairly soon into the bombardment, just took a long time to go down as her damage was fairly evenly distributed, unlike for example HMS Barham whom took all damage suddenly to one side and so rolled over. This does not mean she was an unusually tough ship.
as the Germans accuracy was better dont not use wind to simulate lower accuracy.
Biased as usual; just listening to your accent , you are brittish. At that time UK was the most extended colonial power of the world. and now today England is colonised by their former meteques. So , i can uderstand how biased you are when , you , actually , loose it all !!
Pierre Bouillon: The narrator is NOT speaking with an English accent (I think it's a German, or possibly Scandinavian accent).