When installed correctly and properly the zip system is an incredible system. I think this video highlights more so the poor training and/or supervision that needs to occur for builders on their subs to make sure things are done properly, whether its zip or siding or trim or cabinets or plumbing etc. This video is not about how bad zip is, its about how badly its installed on this new home. Installed properly its a ton better than Tyvek. But like anything, everyone has a bad review and a good review on every product no matter how good or bad they are.
That is right!!! Skilled labor is a good reputation and a profit. Too bad so many contractors are not selective enough to decide who does work for them and what kind of job they do. Later home owners have to deal with all the problems. In my opinion there should be a 10 year warranty on labour and materials and there should be something changed about that stupid minimum code which in my opinion is the reason for all the problems.
using liquid flash prior to window installation is a much better option than taping and a good builder would have flashed the sole plate. the problems you are pointing out are builder issues, not product issues. this job was poorly done.
He already said that his goal was to prove that the Zip System was not “fool proof”. All he really said about the product was that this system was not installed properly and this is why issues arise. He did state however that he likes Tyvek better but that was an opinion, not him slamming ZIP. I agree with him, I don’t care for ZIP either. It is faster and easier to install but in my experience, Tyvek works better. I’m already seeing homes that were built just 10 years ago with sheathing issues where decay is starting in the sheathing itself. Also mold issues inside and outside the house because ZIP is just so darn airtight. Condensation from temperature extremes and/or moisture from improper ZIP install builds up inside a wall cavity with no air to pass through and dry it out. Just a couple things I’ve noticed in the newer homes I’ve been asked to remodel.
Reality is that you are never going to get the perfect job from those in the building trades for a great variety of reasons. Therefore a 'system' has to be designed to cover that flaw. Any that are created in the perfect environment (lab or artificially constructed not as on a real job site) are less than useless for long term homeowners. Not only that they need to be designed for all the climatic conditions as diverse as they may be wherever they are or are going to be sold. Anyone who has been around construction can rattle off a long long list of here today and problem tomorrow products. They need to be removed before getting to the marketplace. Some builders also need to be removed but materials should not be given a free pass to enrich some corporation who will try to evade future responsibility for there "wonder product" of today. Take care. Doug
I have a question: with both Zip board and Tyvek, when shingles are installed, both will be riddled with hundreds of penetrations from nails or staples. Don’t these allow moisture in?
The ZIP system and this whole discussion reminds me of when Tyvek was fairly new, the National Research Council Canada had done some extensive testing of many products for pre- siding and stucco applications. The published findings were that Tyvek fared worse than most anything available and that standard 15 lb. felt did a better job in most applications. Tyvek improved their process and marketed the heck out of it and now it is viewed by many as the "go to", yet what really has changed? The installation. I rarely see damage on homes built before the 60"s, but every decade after that, I see more water issues. The amount of problems is greater each successive decade, even in homes less than 10 years old! Why? Again the installation. More homes are being built by the production builders and they pay subs on price and speed, not quality. I have yet to see a quality production home, especially from one of the national builders. I make a living on fixing the issues they create.
Bestbuilder the point of this video is to show how unforgiving this system is when not installed with care. No system works unless installed properly, but this particular system has unique aspects that make the end result worse than most other systems installed incorrectly!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Yes, and my point was that professionals just like yourself and the Canadian gov. were saying the same thing about Tyvek (which you use because you think it is so good?). My point (not well made) was that what you use today as a "good system" (Tyvek) had issues just like the ZIP system, I still see Tyvek installed incorrectly (last month we opened up a wall that was reversed shingled). Tyvek was the "easier to install" in the past and yet if done correctly it costs a lot more than a correctly installed felt system. I'm not knocking your video, in fact, I'm glad you posted it because it shows the issues that all systems face- they have to be installed correctly and it takes time to work out the bugs- I like you, don't jump on the bandwagon- remember the LP issue, it was marketed as the next best thing (better than cedar!)
@@Lughnerson Insulation in older homes (the '50s, '60s) depended on the area you live in. I have yet to find a home built after the '40s without it. Of course, there wasn't as much or it wasn't installed well, but it is there, so saying "rarely" might be accurate for your area, but not the whole country. Regardless, things were allowed to dry out, for a number of reasons, one of the many being insulation, or the lack of it
I was working on a job once where there was exposed OSB around the windows for quite some time and the housewrap came loose and was just blowing in the wind in quite a few spots because we had a lot of interior work to do and they had trouble finding experienced carpenters. A lot of the OSB was in the early stages of rotting and it just got sided over but if the owner would've spent some more money and gotten zip system it wouldn't have been an issue
Excellent video! Preparing to build my own home and have had some doubts about this system. Not that I don't think it works well when installed as designed, but whether or not I can achieve the design install. The nailing and taping of this system is obviously critical. Based on numerous videos of inspections showing the tape and nails not properly installed by various builders who do this for a living, it appears that achieving the design installation in the field is actually more difficult than expected. I have built with the old system and have had significant success so I think I will stick to the tried and true.
Not sure if anyone posted this, but Matt Rissinger did a video about the "testing" between the two systems. The leaking though the nails in the zip system was compared to a non-penetrated area of tyvek. Put the column of liquid over a cap fastener, and you'd see tons of penetration too. Condensation would only be an issue if you did a lousy job insulating. As others have said, this more about a terrible crew, rather than a terrible product. Just goes to show that if you're having a house built, you should do your due diligence, learn about proper applications and visit the site often. If the contractor has an issue with you visiting and finding issues, you hired a crappy contractor.
I am aware of the videos you are talking about and you are mistaken because Risinger is inaccurate in telling folks in his video that there was no cap under that column when in fact there WAS a cap under the water column and you can check that out for yourself by watching the actual video! Risinger is a sell out and only promotes what lines his pockets, I however give real world experience with no compensation! Hope you find the truth so you are not mislead by paid advertising! Thanks for watching
Any GC or subs out there who'd be able to give a BALLPARK on how much the owner would've paid for this? Cant really see whole house so if we just assume it's 4,000 ft², 2-story mcmansion-esque... OR... how much more expensive (%) would this be compared to your standard weather-proofing i.e. Tyvek or otherwise. Thanks!!
@@pcd1377 hard to tell. Is this one of the zips with insulation attached? If so, which version? That can be a 10% or more increase over just osb and tyvek. Fixing this before siding is a couple hundred dollars of liquid flashing and time for someone to go around and put it on.
@@davidbryant3532 I don't put all my faith in him, but he's done a good job exposing a lot of engrained bad habits in the industry. There's plenty of things he does that I wouldn't. But he's been a great educational source
Zip is only as good as the contractor installing it. When done properly it's a good system. Myself? I would rather see plywood with a liquid applied WRB and flashing like prosoco.
@@networkingdude no kidding. I spent $1400 on tubes of Prosoco R on my last job. The tube jockies wasted a shitload of it. Especially around the corners.
I'm sure tyvic loves you.Any building product is not going to work as advertised if it is not installed correctly. If I knew who this builder was I would not buy a home built by them. With a home so sealed up like you can get with a zip system any experienced builder would know that you are going to need a dehumidifier with the HVAC system.Not really sure how they do it up north. But in south Texas it is a must have item......
Well the contractor screwed that up. You talk about how it should be taped at the bottom is wrong it should have a flashing from studs to out side of the concrete wall so water cant get back in the house.
Brent Frederick if the tape is not reliable at the bottom of the wall which is why I am assuming you are saying it needs a flashing instead. Then how are the thousands of feet of tape on the rest of the house okay? Point here is: this system is being marketed as very easy and quick to install, when in fact it is quite the opposite if done correctly. There are way more opportunities for air and issues than any housewrap ever thought of!
Now that ZIP is requiring the nail holes to be sealed with their liquid flashing stuff (was not always required) you could be somewhat correct! The biggest problem I see with ZIP system is in order to install it correctly it is difficult & much more time consuming than Tyvek. ZIP is also much less forgiving if not installed correctly because there are so many tape joints & holes to seal!
nobster146 No I am not paid or given product by ANY manufacturer! I am just passionate about helping people avoid costly issues:) I have repaired water intrusion for 15 years now and see the heartbreak for the homeowners when they have to pay for something they should not have to & the expense is very high! This ZIP nonsense in my opinion is a terrible idea to rely on, to keep water out! It is however a much better roofing and wall panel over OSB for sure! The r panel is also a good thermal break panel! But to prevent water intrusion is not a good idea in my opinion!
Yes! We're engineering ourselves into a corner, with systems that require perfect application to work properly. But NOBODY installs them perfectly! It just takes too much time. Also, the guy who understands how to do this right is too valuable to spend his time taping...he will be assigned projects that "matter", while the least skilled guy does the taping.
@@fredygump5578 this is precisely why this system has the potential to be disastrous for the homeowners, it is not very forgiving if installed incorrectly & it will more often be installed incorrectly than not! Very bad idea of problem solving but they are great at marketing!
Looks like Weather Proofing is being backed by Dupont. It's obvious this builder did a terrible job. It's like saying hammers are bad tools because they break the glass on windows. When a tool is used incorrectly, the tool can't be the culprit for the misuse. And no Zip is not paying me.
Jose Padilla I have never been paid by any manufacturer. I simply have fixed water intrusion using Dupont Tyvek for almost 20 years. I made this video because zip system has become a pandemic. It is being marketed as easier and faster to install then housewrap, when in fact if done correctly it is quite the opposite! Which is exactly what we are seeing, the results of quick installs! Someone needs to shed light on this or else the homeowners will be stuck with the bill because you know the builders will deny responsibility as well as zip pointing to the incorrect installation so the homeowners the one stuck with the bill....
@@WeatherProofingAmerica It's a pandemic because of shitty builders not installing it correctly. If you install any WRB incorrectly it won't work well. Huber is saying that it's a more efficient system compared to house wraps with both being installed correctly. Also you don't know what you're talking about as far as vapor permeable as in many southern zones in the US having a low perm rating on your WRB is a great thing since you are cooling the majority of the year. In the northern zones you will be installing a vapor barrier on the inside of the wall to prevent vapor from entering the wall cavity. There's been plenty of science from much smarter people than you that's went in to the development of the Zip system. The overall conclusion is hire a reputable builder that knows their building science and whom will make sure whatever system used is installed per manufacturer's specifications.
@JC Wilks Why so hostile? If you read many of my comments on this video or on others from my channel you will see I agree with you on low perm for hot climates (that is basic stuff). As far as installing this system vs a housewrap incorrectly, the amount of issues you will have with the ZIP will far outweigh house wrap installed incorrectly. The piece where I talk about permeability in this video I am referring to water intrusion. Once the water is inside the wall cavity it is trapped. As well as in primarily cold climates this system is not the greatest. But I am sure you know this. Expecting average construction sites which make up 80% of residential building to just make sure they do it right has been a major issue and continues to be. I am trying to raise awareness that if this product is not installed correctly it can be devastating rather quickly! Thanks for watching & interacting!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Not hostile at all, just blunt. You're basically presenting information that fits your narrative. If someone does similar mistakes installing Tyvek the same crap can happen. If you don't bring the WRB down past the sheathing and seal it against the slab, if the installer doesn't shingle it correctly, overlap correctly, doesn't tape it correctly, etc. I guarantee you if someone doesn't shingle their house wrap correctly it will be much worse than the little tape funnel you showed on the video. Zip when installed correctly is a much better product if your looking to do a passive house as you can seal all the penetrations on Tyvek you have thousands of staples holes. Point blank both systems work just fine if installed correctly.
@@jcw294 Your not telling him about permability difference which is big between housewrap and zip. Zip is crap in cold climate as it cant get the humidity out from wall cavity, created in the house. You might say oh vapor barrier exists inside home but it cant perfectly protect can it.
In other words... installers who don't know how to properly install the system, and HVAC installations not correctly including an HRV or ERV are the problem. Lower perm ratings, if properly accounted for in HVAC design, will DRASTICALLY reduce overall heating/cooling costs. Explaining that improper design and application of the ZIP system could cause issues down the road would have been more accurate, rather than trying to claim that it is an inferior system.
Not exactly, the Tyvek/Zip test (referenced by this video) was conducted with experienced installers and done according to manufacturer specifications.
@@RustyGotBanned thanks for the info! I was thinking about using zip on my home but now I'm going with the Dow Weathermate because it gets extremely hot and humid here in eastern NC.
This is an interesting video and part of a valid debate about various WRB systems and their merits. However; a great deal of the valid critique in the video deals with poor installation details as opposed to failures in the product design itself. Calling anything 'foolproof' ignores an old engineering expression I heard for years in the oil industry. We called the best systems 'idiot resistant' rather than idiot proof because as an experienced engineer would point out; God makes better idiots than engineers can make systems.
@@roberthaverlock8605 Why is it crappy compared to systems that are available for use in the US. Comparing it to unavailable of overpriced systems in Europe says nothing.
@@roberthaverlock8605 What are the systems or products you think are most useful from Europe? We're looking to very heavily renovate an old home in 2023, and while I'm planning on ZIP (following Matt Risinger's recommendations on best installs), I'm definitely curious about other options.
Please do a video on the Zip System 2.0. Huber came out with a second iteration of the system that includes a liquid flash product for joints in the sheathing and nail penetrations, rather than the tape. The liquid flash seems like it could solve some of the common install issues you point out in the video.
Sure, the liquid flash could solve some of these issues, but what happens to the liquid flash overtime through expansion and contraction as well as thermal load? Not what I would want to rely on long-term to keep water out of my structure!
That is the point of what I was trying to do. Thank you for realizing that. Most people just want to say how it would be a great system if it’s installed correctly. Unfortunately, I have yet to see one of the systems installed correctly not even close! Thanks for watching.
So would their Liquid flashing be a better alternative? Also you Mention permeability, If you where to insulate the inside with a Close Cell Foam, would that eliminated condensation issues? I plan on building a house in about 12 mos. but also want to seal the house as best as I can.
ZGERMAN I have not personally seen anyone use the liquid flashing with the ZIP systems I have personally seen. Therefore I don’t know how that will work overtime. I can only imagine if people can’t install the tape correctly imagine the time and the effort that it is going to take to install the liquid flashing and especially now that ZIP is recommending all of the fasteners be sealed with the liquid flashing as well. They continue to change their installation instructions which tells me that they are aware of these problems!
Modern building science says your WRB should be 10-20 perms. Modern OSB sheathing is around 2-5 perms. Huber states their OSB component in Zip panels is 2-3 perms (normal OSB range), and the WRB component is 12-16 perms (acceptable limits by modern building science). With Tyvek at 58 perms, that is going to allow vapor drive into the walls from the exterior. And depending on your cladding (brick, stone, stucco) you're just asking for rot. And the OSB you sheathed the house with is still in that 2-5 perm range. Plain and simple, junk installation of Zip Systems is not any better than junk installations of Tyvek.
Chris Mata that is the point. This system very rarely gets installed correctly because it is so time consuming which is costly to install properly. 90% of the homes that I’ve seen with this system look exactly like this one unfortunately. That is the point of this video I am not seeing housewrap installed incorrectly is any better. This system has many more opportunities to go wrong than housewrap ever thought of.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Your comments on the problems are correct. Another point not mentioned is that ZIP requires the use of 6-inch ZIP tape at the windows. This example uses the same 3-3/4 inch tape as on the panel seams.
Very well explained and put Lets be honest Even if you pay great labor Contractors workers will not detail like you want them to No matter how much you monitor them Its hard to install a perfect zip system
Not to mention all of the families being subjected to mycotoxins from particular species, causing serious harm. But yeah, what do builders care… Before, we thought it was the poor mold remediation companies destroying lives, but now our data shows it’s shit builders. Thanks.
Anything that needs to be “properly installed” isn’t really a good product. Here in the real world people aren’t very smart and that’s a very important thing to keep in mind.
What about when you use closed cell spray foam in the walls and ceilings that a lot of people are doing now to satisfy the HERS score? Seems that the closed cell foam can seal any holes from nails and such??? Thanks.
you refer to a video that did a test showing water leaking through that nail penetration with a large head weight of water pushing down on it. It also showed the same test on tyvex. The only thing is, they did not put that water over a fastener. In the spray test, tyvex leaked at its fasteners quite a bit. The solve is, liquid coat your pens.
Just replaced some windows in a house with tyvek on it that was built 20ish years ago. Will never use any type of housewrap again after seeing how deteriorated it was. Zip is the only way to go.
The only time I have seen Tyvek deteriorated, it was installed with rigid siding, stucco or faux rock right up against it with nowhere for the water to drain. This makes the cladding materials rot which in turn looks like it affects the Tyvek. If Tyvek is installed with a drainage plane on top of it before the cladding is installed, it will do it's job for many many years! Another circumstance I have seen Tyvek deterioration was from bugs that are in the wall cavity feeding on the rotting wood that is water logged! If Tyvek is installed correctly water will not get behind it & these issues will not occur! All products require proper installation to work as intended. Thanks for the comment & for watching!
You have to use a system that is hard to screw up from the lowest common denominator... The labor installing it. There are very very few craftsman left who take pride in their work. So many of these homes are made by major companies doing tract homes, all built by the lowest bidder and barely trained to do a half decent job. They'll get it done, but that's it. Water proofing systems are critical, and if there is any area of the building to not screw up, it's your roof and your waterproofing. Failures there lead to massive and expensive internal failures that don't become visible for years.
I think this is spot on, not only calling out the sloppy work but also the possible long-term issues even if applied the right way. Houses need to breathe, part of why so many 100 year old houses remain solid and 30 year old houses are rotting. But many contractors are like sheep following new and untested technologies.
Looking for your opinion on the following. Just added a large garage and family room to my house and used Zip Board. Totally not happy with the install as the contractor did not roll the tape. Architect was the one who advocated for the zip system. Built my house 30 years ago and used Tyvek. When I stripped the old siding off the Tyvek was still in good condition other then it did not seem to be as strong as it was when I installed it. What is your opinion on using Tyvek over the zip board? Siding is going to be cedar clapboards.
Tyvek over the zip system will be a great thing to do for your structure. if you are installing any cladding materials that will be touching the Tyvek (hardie, rigid siding, stucco or faux rock) I would recommend installing a drainage mat that is a minimum of 1/4". This will prevent the water from damming & causing issues. If you are installing brick or natural stone for your veneer then you will not need a drainage mat. When installing the Tyvek make sure to hang the Tyvek below the bottom plate line (joint where the slab meets the wall) as well as making the Tyvek go up past the soffit line. These are two common errors I see when housewraps are installed! Also make sure to lap the Tyvek over any flashings & the top of the window tape to create the shingle effect! Hope this helps & thanks for watching:)
Do yourself a favor and do not staple the Tyvek to the zip sheathing. Use the Tyvek as a rain screen only. Install 1" wide x 1/4" or 3/8" thick vertical strips of plywood onto the sheathing then stretch the Tyvek over and staple it to the strips. This leaves a 1/4" air space between the sheathing and Tyvek. This serves two purposes 1)air circulation 2) prevents and water that may have gotten behind the Tyevk from touching the sheathing. Forget about the perm rating of Tyvek. You want as much air circulation behind it as possible in order for any moisture or water droplets built up behind it to dry out as fast as possible. Yeah I know its a bit more work but it's the best way to protect the sheathing and still allow air circulation. This is what I did to my shop 25 years ago. I took off a section of my board and batten siding 2 weeks ago to install a new rear entry door. The OSB sheathing and Tyvek are pristine as the day I originally installed it.
When using the zip system, you have to include the building as a passive house system. You can't use the standard heating and cooling. You need to set it up to have a continuous passive ventilation system such as HRV or ERV along with a dehumidifier system. Otherwise, because you're creating a air tight envelope to the exterior house, you're going to have condensation issues.
This has nothing to do with Passive House, that is a thing. You DO need to correctly design the HVAC systems and mechanically control the air coming into the home. No matter what your Air Barrier system, and you should control your fresh air intake, ie bring it in intentionally and filter it properly, not just let leak in through holes in the envelope bringing in pollen, odors and other air pollutants. Good Indoor Air quality is something that everyone deserves. Not Leaky Houses. I am simply describing a Pretty Good House, not a Passive House.
The title should be “shoddy workmanship problems,” as the current title infers it’s a material problem. I’m not defending Zip, as I use plywood exclusively...but it’s important to distinguish manufacturers vs a builder who obviously doesn’t care about building a quality structure.
We use a belt and suspender system.... adding a high performance drainable housewrap (preferably one with at least a 1mm spacer) to the zip system allows you the ability to "shingle" the drain plain, flash the windows correctly and provide drainage. Eliminates the potential for failure due to improper taping and nailing.
I have been researching and looking at different systems to consider when building my house next year. I am going to use the 5/8 zip system on the exterior of my home. I am framing it myself. I am not a builder but I know how to frame a house and I guarantee you that it will definitely exceed code. I will not use the tape. I will use the tubes. To fasten it I will use screws. I hate nail guns. Everything in my house is going to be screwed together.
You might check this out first: ua-cam.com/video/Hi_a2godZ0o/v-deo.html ZIP makes a great structural panel but I would cover it with Tyvek if it were mine! Thanks for watching and commenting.
So a year later, how’s the house build going? I’m in the same boat right now (not a builder, framing my own house with Zip) and I can’t imagine how much more work screwing would be over nailing. I screwed my 1-1/8” Advantech subfloor just fine, but that’s going into a 2-2/2” wide joist chord, not the 1-1/2” edge of 2x lumber. Interested in your feedback!
@@superspeeder Look for the Simpson Strong Tie framing screws. Preferably 3.5 inches long. That's what I used. It's more work but creates a stronger wall. They're especially better if using engineered lumber. Try driving or shooting a nail into engineered lumber. It won't work out to well for you because of the density.
@@gregsatterly9412 , ah, I’m just fastening the Zip to KD SPF, not engineered material. I will say, however, that my cordless Metabo (Hitachi) framing nailer puts 3-1/4” galvanized ring shanks into LVL beams with no problem at all, so I wouldn’t anticipate issues with 2-1/2” nails into engineered studs unless perhaps PSL is far more dense than LVL? I have not used PSL but will likely order some for walls that support cabinetry.
If you're fastening sheathing with screws you've already screwed up, screws have very poor shear strength, I hope you enjoyed your failed sheathing inspection. Nail guns have depth settings, learn to use them.
I noticed most of the comments are on the installation of the product, which seems to have been very poorly done. However, I really took note about the potential condensation problem. Besides the wrap, which I'm not sure I'll be able to do, what other method would you suggest?
There are fluid applied products you can use DuPont Tyvek makes one. The Tyvek wrap would be the easiest to do if you can use fasteners but if you are dealing with block or concrete walls you may need to use the fluid applied WRB. If you do use the fluid application make sure to read the installation instructions & install it properly. If you do that you will have a great system of protection! Tyvek also has a certified installer program if you would like help & it's free! Get on the DuPont website & search for a certified installer in your area. Thanks for watching & hope this helps you!
Makes me think of when I see people installing “50 year” shingles and shooting nails all over the place, there’s a nailing line on the shingle but it’s like the dudes are just trying to get the nails out of their guns as fast as they can and don’t care.
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Weather Proofing America What is your opinion of the Zip system if it is installed correctly and a home that has an ERV and/or a HRV installed in it as well?
If it was installed correctly it may be fine for some personally unknown time but relying on solely adhesives to keeps mother nature out is not my idea of a safe bet long term!
Needs a drip cap or "z" flashing installed on top of the block wall(before the zip sheathing is installed) to go up the block face vertically(1 1/2" with an 1/2'" inward turned hem at the bottom which is then bent out at 45 degrees, shedding water away and out from the block), over top of the block laterally(preferably on a 10 degree angle or better), and vertically up the framing members, then install the sheathing so that it doesn't touch the lateral bend of drip cap at its lowermost point, kind of like a piece of hardi-plank siding, never let the edges get wet, or you're fucked. Well, at least that's what I would have done.
So you're saying you randomly walked up to a house, started filming and poking around at the tape, and meanwhile I am hearing circular saws going in the background? Why not grab one of those chuckleheads to come out and teach us both a lesson at the same time?. Odds are pretty good, that they are the installers.I'm sure they would love to be part of the video!
Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to explain these things to someone on a job site and they say OK cool. “I’ve been doing this wrong the entire time I’ve been doing it, thanks for showing me!” I don’t randomly go to projects people pay me to do this….
I've seen numerous UA-cam videos praising the zip system. I'm about to start a remodel on recently purchased peir and beam house. I was looking closely at the zip system, but I'm so glad I seen your video on it. How could this system be put together better? Do they prefer over hang at the bottom, could replacing zip tape for the zip caulk? I'm still undecided on zip or just osb or plywood with tyzek
Plywood with Tyvek will by far be superior in my opinion. It overlaps and will be much more user friendly for you to repair as well as install correctly! If you need any help you can always reach out and I will be glad to assist. Thanks for watching!
Here is a great reference for installation: www.dupont.com/building/how-to-install.html You can also checkout all the videos we have on our channel that will explain how to integrate penetrations such as pipes, windows etc. into the building envelope.
Marcus Mumphrey there is no tape I have seen that will stick to osb or plywood long term. You could use zip then cover it up with Tyvek but you better make sure you have the proper ventilation and HVAC system. That will be costly also but would do what you are asking about.
Aren’t they going to install exterior walls/stucco/sidings over that system that the water has to get through just like anything else? If that much water has gotten through I would imagine there is an even larger issue with the builder doing the work. Scary thoughts
Water gets behind all claddings or veneers at some point. Some areas more than others and as a building ages the cracks and entry points become larger. So long term sustainability is why we set buildings up to manage water behind the finished product.
Zip does have a lot of steps to make sure it's done right, but so does any wrap. Also, wraps make me want to rip my hair out (especially in the wind). Ultimately I don't think it matters which system you use, so long as you actually give a damn about slowing down and doing it right.
I’m confused about the conditioned air meeting non conditioned air. Isn’t the exterior walls going to be insulated? I don’t know if I buy this finally comment about permeability and a condensation problem. If properly built I don’t think that should occur? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Neil Heuer you can think about this situation as if it were a windshield in a car. The conditioned air on the inside meeting the non-conditioned air on the outside causes condensation, the same thing will happen at the exterior wall typically on the sheathing side of the wall.
Neil Heuer that would be a question for them as they don’t seem to be concerned or possibly even thought of it....that’s part of the point here is this product is set up for failure in my opinion!
When you've seen enough of their work you can tell this is Mexicans that did it. On the west coast it's almost all Mexicans now that are putting up Tract homes. They hire them to save money, do it fast and cheap. They don't care if the work is done right. For the most part they have gotten better over the years. But the builder still wants it fast and cheap.
This system are for tight or passive homes. I agree, the taping job was horrific, but people with these tight homes have a dehumidification system on top of ERV type system.
I've been a tyvek builder since it replaced #15 felt...:)...The Zip system, done right, is good though...I'm too cheap to pay 28 bucks a sheet...the price point Per sq ft is way cheaper for tyvek.
The selling point of Zip is time savings...but I suspect that once you have taped it properly, rolled the seams...does it take as much time as installing Tyvek? I would guess it is pretty close. Clearly this example is a contractor saving time on the taping, which should be expected.
@@travisburch4342 I think it's a poor option especially the way hones are built these days. Felt has an extremely low perm rating but when saturated it skyrockets, it's like turning on a faucet. If you had an old cedar cabin or something of the like with little insulation it's not a bad option as there is lots of opportunity to dry out after a rain event. As we build homes tighter together with more products right on top of each other you need better bulk water holdout and an ability to mitigate hydrostatic pressure. If I was building my own home I would use Zip R 3 at least covered with 2" of xps covered with a rainscreen or at worst a drainable housewrap depending on choice of cladding.
That house is an excellent example of what not to do on so many levels - framing, sheathing, taping, sill prep and the list goes on. Look at how uneven the panels are at the seams, that causes bump and ridges that are hard to tape and obviously this contractor never heard of a roller. The bottom course of OSB should be outside the foundation wall and stop 1.5-2" below TOF, z flash and liquid flash. Windows, well they are rarely done right. Perms - insulation and HVAC have a lot to do with where that should be.
I'm digging what your saying about the condensation aspect of this although if it is enough to do any damage is to be seen. I do a lot of major tile work in baths and showers and we deal with the same likely hood. It seems that every point you brought up was an installation problem. Also the tape shouldn't be used they make a spreadable sealer that works 10000 times better than tape. Honestly taping over something this close to the exterior with weather being a factor is something that should be reconsidered anyway. It will be interesting to see how this product fairs over time as I have seen a lot of great videos on it but have not used it myself. Thanks for making the video and bringing up these points.
Robert Montgomery www.dupont.com/dpt/tyvek-weatherization/zip-sheathing-system.html?src=gg-kg_tyvek-X-us_zip-system&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoo7gBRDuARIsANeJKUYsbOeO4PSPMVgkVTBfiLomezBYdZCXot_ZYfjwg3wO0z0EoKEULvUaArUKEALw_wcB After reading these articles give me your thoughts? Thanks for watching:)
@@WeatherProofingAmerica You can't post an "article" done by the competition and blindly label it as fact. Third party, independent testing is the only testing that truly "proves" anything. Biased studies and bullshit articles are a cancer on the building science community.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica You can't post an Dupont site as evidence that tyveck is better. They manufacturer tyveck, of course they will say their product is better.
Well first we have to remove the exterior finish (brick, stucco, siding etc.) then we have to remove the zip panels that have water behind them so we can remove and replace water damaged materials. Then we install new plywood and cover the exposed wall with Tyvek. Then we fabricate and solder any necessary flashings & put the exterior finish back on! Quite simple but very costly....
Because they have marketed and sold contractors on this being the magical fix all water intrusion problems system that is easy and quick to install. Well if done correctly that is no where near true! But when done like this one it is faster and maybe even easier! So my point is this is a random project with 10 others immediately surrounding it with the same exact issues. The proper installation is going to be a very low percentage of installations of these type of systems. Unfortunately the devastation will be catastrophic just wait and see!
The biggest issue with coated osb are the horizontal tapes. They are not in a shingle fashion. I see sites all over where they have to install a housewrap over zip. and redundancy is not a bad thing when it comes to water management. The biggest lawsuit for water management was in Sodoma, AZ because it was not breathing adequately. Yes in the desert. Tyvek at 58 perms is also tight. I see many cases where it sticks to the osb because of condensation not coming out. LP & James Hardie are now recommending drainable housewraps with a minimum of 1mm non-compressive spacers. In Louisiana and Canada it's a min 3/8" gap.
Air gaps should always be used on any rigid fascade that is directly fastened to the wall. This would include stucco, any rigid siding(hardie, wood, composite), faux rock etc. Thanks for watching!
1: Zip presumes the builder will actually assemble the system right (according to their guidelines). If they don't, it's not ZIP's fault. (Rolling out the tape, proper overlaps, use of nailing marks, etc.) NO system is "foolproof". Fools are DAMNED creative in their ability to screw things up. Either deliberately or accidentally. 2: Proper quantity and use of exterior insulation will move the condensation point out away from the stud/sheathing assembly. Additionally, proper HVAC controls should be in place to limit interior moisture content. Properly controlled for, not just "slapped up", and you don't run into condensation problems. 3: Look for "ZIP 2.0" on UA-cam. Use of liquid flashing at the wall base, around windows and over nail/staple intrusions will basically reseal the surface. Takes a little longer, and costs more. But the end product is simply superior to house wraps of anything besides peel & sticks.
The ZIP 2.0 video is a sellouts way of getting paid! This magic liquid flash is not a solution & you should never rely on caulking, adhesives & sealants to keep water out! Shingling materials & longer lasting products are the solution not more caulking!
@@HubstepCamaro you bet I am! I only speak the truth. Go ask that sellout if he is paid by Huber? He used to promote Tyvek and understands why it is a superior product but it’s not lining his pockets! Hope he sees this and the many other times I have called him out for his misleading bs that is actually paid propaganda!
Ryan Kelly unfortunately this is happening more often than not all around the country! This will be one of the most costly expenses in this industry for homeowners in my opinion!
prunejuicepb so you think that it is okay to rely on miles of tape, that has to have the surface it is going on free of debris & then has to be installed perfectly & rolled for it to work. This is a product issue for sure and let me tell you why! If this product is being marketed and sold as a faster easier solution to housewrap. This gives installers false security in this system therefore it is hardly ever installed correctly! In any climate but the desert this system has potential to cause major condensation issues in the exterior walls.....we haven’t even touched on the thousands of exposed nail-heads that will take forever to seal with the magic liquid flash which is why most homes don’t have anything sealing all those penetrations! If you would like to believe that this system works then I hope you are willing to put this on YOUR investment! Thanks for watching & your interaction!
Cmon people! Is the like button so hard to hit! Excellent short video guys! Thanks for the information. I'm getting ready to build and this was very informative.
My biggest question with the tyvek, is what about the thousands of holes that the siders put through it? Maybe you can answer that. I haven’t found anyone else who can.
Juston Brazada that is a great questions! It's very simple, they are not holes unless the nails are pulled out! If the nail is in the hole the water molecules actually seal around the nail & Tyvek & the water runs around the nail because that is the path of least resistance! Sounds strange I know, but that's what happens most of the time. However if that small amount of water does get behind the Tyvek, the high perm rating that Tyvek has will allow the water to escape & not cause any issues!
Weather Proofing America, do you build new homes or just repair/remodel? I ask because I’m curious how airtight an envelope can be using Tyvek. It certainly seems like an airtight exterior shell is just about impossible if relying on Tyvek, given that bare typical OSB cannot be relied on for airtightness when taped/sealed. I’ve yet to see builders showing off blower door results using Tyvek sealed exteriors. The average builder does a horrendous job with Tyvek, and even a careful builder would be hard pressed to do a truly good job of air sealing with it.
This video is a bit misleading, especially the talk of permiability at the end. You're assuming that the home will be poorly insulated. Given the quality of the installation shown, that may be true, but Zip done right looks like a great product when combined with other quality building products and practices.
I current have a builder building my home and they also used the zip system and this system leaks through the walls at windows , nail holes and any where it has a fastener. We are scared this is going to be a big problem later if walls do not have a wrap on exterior walls and now also scared about the roof.
Thomas Cotton did they already cover up the zip with you exterior veneer? If not it’s not too late to wrap it. The roof should be fine everywhere except areas where roofs intersect with walls or flashing areas.
That is what they would love for you to believe but that is not true! Read this article & you will find the truth about that perm rating!www.dupont.com/content/dam/assets/products-and-services/construction-materials/assets/Tyvek-vs-ZIP-System-Tech-Talk-K17924-1.pdf
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I note that DuPont offers a 10-year warranty on Tyvek products. ZIP System products have 30 years warranty. I don't know what to make of that, because warranties seldom pay off in the end. I think Matt Risinger says he prefers to use the commercial version of Tyvek (when he uses Tyvek).
I clicked to see common problems to avoid and find that perhaps you could look more into the building science before misguiding viewers. This is obviously a bad installation of a great material. I see you are heavily into shingling, but I sense a misunderstanding of air sealing. Tyvek gives us zero air sealing, and the transitions are a challenging origami for new construction crew to master. When done right, Zip-R gives us shear, thermal break, air sealing, and waterproofing. Liquid flashing can easily solve the problems you highlight, with just two products. That's a lot of steps saved, and worth learning to do well. From a building perspective, we want the low perms - let it dry to the inside from the inside, and dry to the outside with a rain screen. The inboard insulations will prevent any condensation. There are more facets to this picture than shingling. We'll be using it on our upcoming project and this is how I found your video. Peace.
I am not sure where I have misguided anyone but maybe you could fill me in after you educate yourself better! The video is designed to show the common problems we see when taking these systems apart to correct water intrusion. I simply stopped by a random house with the ZIP system on it & sure enough found the same problems we see when correcting water intrusion! The video is not showing how this system doesn't work when installed correctly (that has been proven by several different third party testing companies already), the video simply shows how it is not an easy system to install correctly & when its installed incorrectly it is not forgiving! If you want to rely on tape & caulking to keep water out of your structure without any way to shingle anything then you are welcome to do so but to me that goes against all the weatherproofing experience I have! I wish you luck when using this system & hope that you pay close attention to detail & get every piece of tape perfectly adhered as well as cover every fastener hole! Peace
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I guess I missed where you discuss how Tyvek performs in air sealing. Not sure if you are against it or unaware of the issue. Perhaps that's not your problem so you do not care about this. I've seen many more examples where Tyvek, tapes, staples, cap nails, shingling around doors, windows and other penetrations are more difficult to execute at a high level than Zip 2.0. Zip 2.0 is a great system. Have never liked the tapes & don't see the longevity in that approach. Keeping water out of an air-leaky house seems like a lost opportunity to do a good job, performance-wise. Wherever we get on the ladder, we can look both up AND down. I always ask what the best in the world are up to. Ignoring the bigger picture while touting a single aspect shouts of snake oil. That's all.
Don Kingery the big picture from my perspective is this system will more often than not, be installed poorly which will set homeowners up for massive payouts to correct something they should not have to! Tyvek installed poorly still covers the majority of the vulnerabilities ZIP doesn’t! If you look more into Tyvek you will find that it is intended to & can be a great air barrier also if installed correctly! The reason I like to recommend Tyvek is because I have personally used Tyvek to CORRECT many types of water intrusion and have seen things that most don’t because of us taking wall systems apart daily!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I'm a general contractor and not a sub. I often tell clients that if someone is selling pickles, then pickles are the answer to every problem in the world. I'd concede that the fixing that you do is not about Tyvek, but poor workmanship. I've spent many years fixing bad work, and it's almost always the workmanship and not the products that are to blame. I started using Tyvek on custom homes way back in the 1980s because it was an improvement over felt paper. This was before building science knew what was happening with air, water, and thermal leakage. Heating and cooling a home, only to have conditioned air leak out is wasteful. Tyvek, if installed in a laboratory perfect manner (rare) and addressing all the penetrations, hundreds or thousands of staples, origami, etc. (even more rare), can address water intrusion, but does nothing for air infiltration nor thermal transfer. This means many additional steps for much less benefit. This is the 21st century. Labor rates in our area are higher, perhaps, than in your area. I gave up trying to save material costs and working for less money or asking others to do so. We get paid for end results; not by saving a penny only to cost our clients dollars over the decades to come. I like the synergy of systems that deliver multiple benefits - air + water + moisture + thermal. If both belt and suspenders leak, neither is effective.
Good framers are being driven out by cheap contractors who would rather save a buck on the guy who charges less. Unfortunately all the problems you are talking about are due to this. You get what you pay for usually. Our company no longer frames development houses because of this. I have always used regular osb and tyvek. I wonder what the warranty is on the actual tape it self. Once that tape fails you no longer have that water barrier at the joints which is the most critical. On tyvek as long as it’s over lapped correctly (installed correctly) it will always drain to the bottom.
Chad Fullard You are 100% correct! That is the primary point of this video, ZIP is marketing their product as easier and quicker to install than traditional house wraps which is completely false and this is the end result on 90% of the jobs that this product is applied.... sad news for the homeowners!
Chad If your company is using OSB AND if you care about quality, Find another company to work for... OSB is CRAP.. Construction can be enjoyable if those that you hire are quality minded. If not, get rid of them.
Very poor carpenters were on this job. Hard to say the zip system is bad when it’s applied in this mannor…. This is brutal work… and I wouldn’t have these guys on a crew for very long.
I would agree with that minus the fact that it is very rare to find housewrap lapped wrong but it is very common to see this on a zip project. So the probability of an issue with housewrap is much less than having a problem with a coated sheathing product like this. Not to mention the miles of tape you are hoping they cleaned the osb surface before applying & rolled it on with a roller, then you hope it stays stuck longterm....Not my idea of a good system! Thanks for watching
No one reads the installation manual and it all about get it done hit and run let the next person deal with it that why it hard for me to find help cause everyone want to do bare minimum
You are right about the issue. However I think that when you use flash seal you correct all of those issue. And about the condensation part. If you use zip with foam and. A good interior insulation you will not have any issue..... but It is not idiot proof. You cant make any mistake. Or you ''will'' have issue. Zip is for pro and perfectionist installer. Air tight house are a lot harder to build than breathing house.
Completely agree. People use it cause it’s fast and don’t take any care. Tyvek or bust! Blue Skin and Majvest are also great self adhered products. Zip failures will be a HUGE stream of work in 15-20 years
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 that’s just misinformation my man. It does a great job at preventing water intrusion. But the biggest benefit is it allowed the sheathing to dry out and the house can breathe. Tyvek, specifically the commercial wrap, is a superior WRB Here’s a pretty good video. Definitely not self sealing but it does a good job at preventing water intrusion ua-cam.com/video/gTYqRGeb8jY/v-deo.html
Excellent review of this product compared to Tyvek. I've been studying building science heavily for several months and it's tough to find videos like this. Zip systems look appealing but it's hard to justify the cost vs other alternatives. Breathability is definitely an essential component to the longevity of the structure. Can Tyvek homes be built as tight and what is the comparable high R value option...rigid insulation below OSB?
Tyvek can absolutely be a great air barrier when all the seams are taped, Tyvek ran past bottom plate line & above the top plate as well as the windows installed per DuPonts instruction!
I was with you until you stared talking about breathability. Homes don’t need to breath people do. Use zip boated with zip liquid flashing instead of tape resolves all the issues you pointed out. No system works of Installed improperly.
Homes may not need to "breathe" (assuming you have a way to maintain indoor air quality).. but they DO need to be able to dry to the exterior if/when moisture winds up in the wall cavity. Yes I know... water isn't supposed to get into the cavity... but in most parts of the country, we have swing climates and environments that are the opposite in August and February.
Hope the framers don’t show up and beat you up for talking smack on their horrible work 😂. I also don’t like that system but as someone else mentioned here. “What about all the holes that are made on the Tyvek when installing siding etc.” I’ve seen framers just tack the hell out of Tyvek and put a million holes without taping it? That’s before the siding goes on. Great video by the way👍🏼.
Contractor's Work Network that is a great question! It's very simple, they are not holes unless the nails are pulled out! If the nail is in the hole the water molecules actually seal around the nail & Tyvek & the water runs around the nail because that is the path of least resistance! Sounds strange I know, but that's what happens most of the time. However if that small amount of water does get behind the Tyvek, the high perm rating that Tyvek has will allow the water to escape & not cause any issues!
If button caps are used the water tension actually makes the water run around the fastener head following the plastic cap. But let's say that water gets behind the Tyvek, no worries as Tyvek has a fantastic perm rating of high 50's whereas the ZIP has a very low perm rating of less than 1. So the water is trapped behind the ZIP but not the Tyvek, that is a huge difference & can cause mold, rot etc. from not being able to dry out! Thanks for watching!
Zip should be paying you for the great job in pointing out "How Not" to Zip a home :) ..But in fare you do make a good point with your moisture knowledge and Tyvek data. So overall, I think your video serves greater good on many levels...
The point of this video is to shed light on the difficulty of correct installation, which is why it will be installed like this 90% of the time! The manufacturer of this product has sold builders, homeowners, lumber reps, etc that this system is so much easier & faster to install but it is simply not! It is actually very difficult to install correctly at which point the system may actually work. The other major thing I don't like about any of the Integrated systems like this are the fact that they rely on miles of tape to keep your structure safe! As opposed to the overlapping of a quality housewrap. Thanks for watching & commenting:)
That is a very common question I get. The biggest way water gets behind a siding like hardie is after the caulking separates and the homeowner doesn't keep it maintained (most don't). This will allow water at the butt joints (if they didn't flash them, most don't) or around windows or any other wall penetration. Not to mention condensation that may take place depending on the climate zone. Thanks for watching!
As many others have said, it's a very poor install. I will still be using ZipR on my roof. The low permeability is fine for me in a hot and dry area and any moisture in my roof will be able to dry inward. I'm going to be doing the install myself so I don't have to worry about unskilled labor applying the tape wrong and I am going to liquid flash it also. I am going to take steps to ensure that I don't create any leaks when installing my roofing. I just like the idea of a fully bonded membrane instead of a shingled underlayment. That is really the difference here, the Zip membrane can replace a roof underlayment. Tyvek will never say they can do that. With that said, my roof might have four layers of moisture barrier with Zip being the last line of defense so it should live an easy and long life.
william skrainski if you take EXTREME precautions this system might work but is very risky. I would look into a good housewrap with drainage planes depending on what veneer you are using. Hopefully you are already using drainage planes but if not check out our informational website. Weatherproofingamerica.com Thanks for watching!
You're just spreading FUD here. Just because you can't hire competent contractors that can install a system according to manufacturer instructions does not mean that the system is bad. There are thousands of homes built successfully using this system vs some guy who has an axe to grind on the internet (you). Please be more honest in your reviews.
According to the third party testing done on this system after it was installed correctly it still did not perform well. However the point of this video was to show how easily this system can fail with poor installation. It has it's challenges when installed 100% correct but when installed incorrectly it really get nasty! This product is being marketed as easy to install & basically using less steps but is far from the truth! Thanks for watching!
So its not the Zip System that is bad. It is piss poor management of the laborers and the contractors not following prescribed instulation guides. Even tyvek has problems when not taped right or has other intrutions. If a home owner is having ahouse built, they should be doing research and checking in during construction to make sure the good money they are putting out is being usrd correctly not fraudulently.
@@George-nx5lo wow only "wrong"? No discussion of what parts you think were wrong? You must be one of those contractors who does it the cheap way or doesnt want your customer to do their research
@@George-nx5lo um duh i did. And like i commented before all the bad things he dound were due to contractor neglect and formen not checking the labors work. It is a terrific system when installed correctly. Its also up to the customer to do some research and find out what system will work better for their climate. I know if i was having a house built i would do the research and double check what they were doing. Its my hard earned money paying for it and i would expect it to be installed correctly.
That video comparing tyvek to the zip system, was biased (provided it's the same one I know about). They put a column of water over the fastener for zip, but on a bare piece of tyvek. If you put a column of water over the fastener for tyvek, it leaks WAY worse. But as you said, this is an install problem. Always install according to the manufacturers specifications.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Thank you for the video! So now I'm left with a test by Matt Risinger (somewhat biased as Zip is a sponsor of his), and a test by the manufacturer of Tyvek (biased as it's BY the company). My next project will be Tyvek anyway, as it's more budget friendly, but given two different test results, leaves me to wonder. I'd like a fully independent test done, but alas, it probably won't happen.
ua-cam.com/video/E7cRgMOtz04/v-deo.html This test was paid for by DuPont but was done by a stand up company (specializes in testing & consulting) that would not jeopardize its reputation to skew something for money. So this is a great example of why even when installed correctly (which rarely happens) I would not be comfortable with this product protecting my investment! relying on miles of tape and sealants is just not my idea of safety, we set everything up not using any sealants or caulking! Thanks for the interaction, let me know if you need help!
Unfortunately you are correct but sadly this is the most common site you see with any integrated coating system because the installers think it is magical and they don't have to take time & care....the art of marketing, backfiring on them in a major way! Thank for watching!
When installed correctly and properly the zip system is an incredible system. I think this video highlights more so the poor training and/or supervision that needs to occur for builders on their subs to make sure things are done properly, whether its zip or siding or trim or cabinets or plumbing etc. This video is not about how bad zip is, its about how badly its installed on this new home. Installed properly its a ton better than Tyvek. But like anything, everyone has a bad review and a good review on every product no matter how good or bad they are.
can that tape even be removed and done right?
Cheap laborers often produce lack-luster results.
zip system was a roof sheathing system that morphed into whole envelope. The permeability is its biggest downfall.
@@amunderdog how so
@@randomrazr Moisture is trapped in the framing.
Skilled labor isn’t cheap::::cheap labor isn’t skilled
That is right!!!
Skilled labor is a good reputation and a profit. Too bad so many contractors are not selective enough to decide who does work for them and what kind of job they do. Later home owners have to deal with all the problems. In my opinion there should be a 10 year warranty on labour and materials and there should be something changed about that stupid minimum code which in my opinion is the reason for all the problems.
Somebody didn't inspect the work. The workers must be taught to apply the tape correctly. A careful detail oriented DIY person can do this
@@timothykeith1367 if they had a supervisor who would just give the workers a couple of rollers to make sure the tape lies flat & check the work.
using liquid flash prior to window installation is a much better option than taping and a good builder would have flashed the sole plate. the problems you are pointing out are builder issues, not product issues. this job was poorly done.
I believe this is mentioned in the video... Installer issue.
He already said that his goal was to prove that the Zip System was not “fool proof”. All he really said about the product was that this system was not installed properly and this is why issues arise. He did state however that he likes Tyvek better but that was an opinion, not him slamming ZIP. I agree with him, I don’t care for ZIP either. It is faster and easier to install but in my experience, Tyvek works better. I’m already seeing homes that were built just 10 years ago with sheathing issues where decay is starting in the sheathing itself. Also mold issues inside and outside the house because ZIP is just so darn airtight. Condensation from temperature extremes and/or moisture from improper ZIP install builds up inside a wall cavity with no air to pass through and dry it out. Just a couple things I’ve noticed in the newer homes I’ve been asked to remodel.
TCSwizz2 Thank you sir! I get tired of repeating myself lol. Thanks for watching!
Reality is that you are never going to get the perfect job from those in the building trades for a great variety of reasons. Therefore a 'system' has to be designed to cover that flaw. Any that are created in the perfect environment (lab or artificially constructed not as on a real job site) are less than useless for long term homeowners. Not only that they need to be designed for all the climatic conditions as diverse as they may be wherever they are or are going to be sold. Anyone who has been around construction can rattle off a long long list of here today and problem tomorrow products. They need to be removed before getting to the marketplace. Some builders also need to be removed but materials should not be given a free pass to enrich some corporation who will try to evade future responsibility for there "wonder product" of today. Take care. Doug
Douglas Thompson precisely! Finally someone understands the point of this video! Thank you for watching & taking time to comment:)
Looks like more of a problem with the installation and not the product.
My thought exactly.
Junk
@@morehp1 i wrapped my home with tar paper thr old school way probably 17 hears ago. Lol. No rain in my house yet.
@@MrDavidelliottjr nothing wrong with that,
That's exactly the problem.
I have a question: with both Zip board and Tyvek, when shingles are installed, both will be riddled with hundreds of penetrations from nails or staples. Don’t these allow moisture in?
The ZIP system and this whole discussion reminds me of when Tyvek was fairly new, the National Research Council Canada had done some extensive testing of many products for pre- siding and stucco applications. The published findings were that Tyvek fared worse than most anything available and that standard 15 lb. felt did a better job in most applications. Tyvek improved their process and marketed the heck out of it and now it is viewed by many as the "go to", yet what really has changed? The installation.
I rarely see damage on homes built before the 60"s, but every decade after that, I see more water issues. The amount of problems is greater each successive decade, even in homes less than 10 years old! Why? Again the installation.
More homes are being built by the production builders and they pay subs on price and speed, not quality. I have yet to see a quality production home, especially from one of the national builders. I make a living on fixing the issues they create.
Bestbuilder the point of this video is to show how unforgiving this system is when not installed with care. No system works unless installed properly, but this particular system has unique aspects that make the end result worse than most other systems installed incorrectly!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Yes, and my point was that professionals just like yourself and the Canadian gov. were saying the same thing about Tyvek (which you use because you think it is so good?). My point (not well made) was that what you use today as a "good system" (Tyvek) had issues just like the ZIP system, I still see Tyvek installed incorrectly (last month we opened up a wall that was reversed shingled). Tyvek was the "easier to install" in the past and yet if done correctly it costs a lot more than a correctly installed felt system.
I'm not knocking your video, in fact, I'm glad you posted it because it shows the issues that all systems face- they have to be installed correctly and it takes time to work out the bugs- I like you, don't jump on the bandwagon- remember the LP issue, it was marketed as the next best thing (better than cedar!)
true.. i did my bathroom over and found spray painted lumber from home depot marked as cull..(from original builder)
@@Lughnerson Insulation in older homes (the '50s, '60s) depended on the area you live in. I have yet to find a home built after the '40s without it. Of course, there wasn't as much or it wasn't installed well, but it is there, so saying "rarely" might be accurate for your area, but not the whole country. Regardless, things were allowed to dry out, for a number of reasons, one of the many being insulation, or the lack of it
Well said, and do true!
I was working on a job once where there was exposed OSB around the windows for quite some time and the housewrap came loose and was just blowing in the wind in quite a few spots because we had a lot of interior work to do and they had trouble finding experienced carpenters. A lot of the OSB was in the early stages of rotting and it just got sided over but if the owner would've spent some more money and gotten zip system it wouldn't have been an issue
Excellent video! Preparing to build my own home and have had some doubts about this system. Not that I don't think it works well when installed as designed, but whether or not I can achieve the design install. The nailing and taping of this system is obviously critical. Based on numerous videos of inspections showing the tape and nails not properly installed by various builders who do this for a living, it appears that achieving the design installation in the field is actually more difficult than expected. I have built with the old system and have had significant success so I think I will stick to the tried and true.
Not sure if anyone posted this, but Matt Rissinger did a video about the "testing" between the two systems. The leaking though the nails in the zip system was compared to a non-penetrated area of tyvek. Put the column of liquid over a cap fastener, and you'd see tons of penetration too. Condensation would only be an issue if you did a lousy job insulating.
As others have said, this more about a terrible crew, rather than a terrible product. Just goes to show that if you're having a house built, you should do your due diligence, learn about proper applications and visit the site often. If the contractor has an issue with you visiting and finding issues, you hired a crappy contractor.
I am aware of the videos you are talking about and you are mistaken because Risinger is inaccurate in telling folks in his video that there was no cap under that column when in fact there WAS a cap under the water column and you can check that out for yourself by watching the actual video! Risinger is a sell out and only promotes what lines his pockets, I however give real world experience with no compensation! Hope you find the truth so you are not mislead by paid advertising! Thanks for watching
@@WeatherProofingAmerica good to know!
After watching Rissinger's videos, the flaws in application are glaring. Terrible job. I'd want it completely redone if I were that homeowner
Any GC or subs out there who'd be able to give a BALLPARK on how much the owner would've paid for this? Cant really see whole house so if we just assume it's 4,000 ft², 2-story mcmansion-esque... OR... how much more expensive (%) would this be compared to your standard weather-proofing i.e. Tyvek or otherwise. Thanks!!
palarious it probably could be fixed, primarily with liquid applied sealant. But it would be a lot of work.
@@pcd1377 hard to tell. Is this one of the zips with insulation attached? If so, which version? That can be a 10% or more increase over just osb and tyvek. Fixing this before siding is a couple hundred dollars of liquid flashing and time for someone to go around and put it on.
If you put all of your faith in rissinger...you are sadly mistaken. That guy is a moron ...he is nothing more than a product salesman.
@@davidbryant3532 I don't put all my faith in him, but he's done a good job exposing a lot of engrained bad habits in the industry. There's plenty of things he does that I wouldn't. But he's been a great educational source
Zip is only as good as the contractor installing it. When done properly it's a good system. Myself? I would rather see plywood with a liquid applied WRB and flashing like prosoco.
It's insane cost is the only thing preventing me from using it. It's over $2 per sq foot in Canada at least but it definitely is the best solution
@@networkingdude no kidding. I spent $1400 on tubes of Prosoco R on my last job. The tube jockies wasted a shitload of it. Especially around the corners.
fzr600rr wrong
I'm sure tyvic loves you.Any building product is not going to work as advertised if it is not installed correctly. If I knew who this builder was I would not buy a home built by them. With a home so sealed up like you can get with a zip system any experienced builder would know that you are going to need a dehumidifier with the HVAC system.Not really sure how they do it up north. But in south Texas it is a must have item......
And lord knows it’ll rarely be installed correctly.
Well the contractor screwed that up. You talk about how it should be taped at the bottom is wrong it should have a flashing from studs to out side of the concrete wall so water cant get back in the house.
Actually what he said was exactly as Zip wants it done.
Brent Frederick moron
Brent Frederick if the tape is not reliable at the bottom of the wall which is why I am assuming you are saying it needs a flashing instead. Then how are the thousands of feet of tape on the rest of the house okay? Point here is: this system is being marketed as very easy and quick to install, when in fact it is quite the opposite if done correctly. There are way more opportunities for air and issues than any housewrap ever thought of!
The tape literally has a picture of a roller... 🤦♂️
Both tyvek, and zip, can be good if installed correctly. I have yet to see a framer install either one 100% correct.
Now that ZIP is requiring the nail holes to be sealed with their liquid flashing stuff (was not always required) you could be somewhat correct! The biggest problem I see with ZIP system is in order to install it correctly it is difficult & much more time consuming than Tyvek. ZIP is also much less forgiving if not installed correctly because there are so many tape joints & holes to seal!
Just curious, are you sponsored in any way by Tyvek?
nobster146 No I am not paid or given product by ANY manufacturer! I am just passionate about helping people avoid costly issues:) I have repaired water intrusion for 15 years now and see the heartbreak for the homeowners when they have to pay for something they should not have to & the expense is very high! This ZIP nonsense in my opinion is a terrible idea to rely on, to keep water out! It is however a much better roofing and wall panel over OSB for sure! The r panel is also a good thermal break panel! But to prevent water intrusion is not a good idea in my opinion!
Yes! We're engineering ourselves into a corner, with systems that require perfect application to work properly. But NOBODY installs them perfectly! It just takes too much time. Also, the guy who understands how to do this right is too valuable to spend his time taping...he will be assigned projects that "matter", while the least skilled guy does the taping.
@@fredygump5578 this is precisely why this system has the potential to be disastrous for the homeowners, it is not very forgiving if installed incorrectly & it will more often be installed incorrectly than not! Very bad idea of problem solving but they are great at marketing!
Looks like Weather Proofing is being backed by Dupont. It's obvious this builder did a terrible job. It's like saying hammers are bad tools because they break the glass on windows. When a tool is used incorrectly, the tool can't be the culprit for the misuse. And no Zip is not paying me.
Jose Padilla I have never been paid by any manufacturer. I simply have fixed water intrusion using Dupont Tyvek for almost 20 years. I made this video because zip system has become a pandemic. It is being marketed as easier and faster to install then housewrap, when in fact if done correctly it is quite the opposite! Which is exactly what we are seeing, the results of quick installs! Someone needs to shed light on this or else the homeowners will be stuck with the bill because you know the builders will deny responsibility as well as zip pointing to the incorrect installation so the homeowners the one stuck with the bill....
@@WeatherProofingAmerica It's a pandemic because of shitty builders not installing it correctly. If you install any WRB incorrectly it won't work well. Huber is saying that it's a more efficient system compared to house wraps with both being installed correctly. Also you don't know what you're talking about as far as vapor permeable as in many southern zones in the US having a low perm rating on your WRB is a great thing since you are cooling the majority of the year. In the northern zones you will be installing a vapor barrier on the inside of the wall to prevent vapor from entering the wall cavity. There's been plenty of science from much smarter people than you that's went in to the development of the Zip system. The overall conclusion is hire a reputable builder that knows their building science and whom will make sure whatever system used is installed per manufacturer's specifications.
@JC Wilks Why so hostile? If you read many of my comments on this video or on others from my channel you will see I agree with you on low perm for hot climates (that is basic stuff). As far as installing this system vs a housewrap incorrectly, the amount of issues you will have with the ZIP will far outweigh house wrap installed incorrectly. The piece where I talk about permeability in this video I am referring to water intrusion. Once the water is inside the wall cavity it is trapped. As well as in primarily cold climates this system is not the greatest. But I am sure you know this. Expecting average construction sites which make up 80% of residential building to just make sure they do it right has been a major issue and continues to be. I am trying to raise awareness that if this product is not installed correctly it can be devastating rather quickly! Thanks for watching & interacting!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Not hostile at all, just blunt. You're basically presenting information that fits your narrative. If someone does similar mistakes installing Tyvek the same crap can happen. If you don't bring the WRB down past the sheathing and seal it against the slab, if the installer doesn't shingle it correctly, overlap correctly, doesn't tape it correctly, etc. I guarantee you if someone doesn't shingle their house wrap correctly it will be much worse than the little tape funnel you showed on the video. Zip when installed correctly is a much better product if your looking to do a passive house as you can seal all the penetrations on Tyvek you have thousands of staples holes. Point blank both systems work just fine if installed correctly.
@@jcw294 Your not telling him about permability difference which is big between housewrap and zip. Zip is crap in cold climate as it cant get the humidity out from wall cavity, created in the house. You might say oh vapor barrier exists inside home but it cant perfectly protect can it.
In other words... installers who don't know how to properly install the system, and HVAC installations not correctly including an HRV or ERV are the problem. Lower perm ratings, if properly accounted for in HVAC design, will DRASTICALLY reduce overall heating/cooling costs. Explaining that improper design and application of the ZIP system could cause issues down the road would have been more accurate, rather than trying to claim that it is an inferior system.
Not exactly, the Tyvek/Zip test (referenced by this video) was conducted with experienced installers and done according to manufacturer specifications.
Issac Barnett - Well said!
Correct
@@RustyGotBanned thanks for the info! I was thinking about using zip on my home but now I'm going with the Dow Weathermate because it gets extremely hot and humid here in eastern NC.
This is an interesting video and part of a valid debate about various WRB systems and their merits. However; a great deal of the valid critique in the video deals with poor installation details as opposed to failures in the product design itself. Calling anything 'foolproof' ignores an old engineering expression I heard for years in the oil industry. We called the best systems 'idiot resistant' rather than idiot proof because as an experienced engineer would point out; God makes better idiots than engineers can make systems.
Still a crappy product! The Europeans are waaaay ahead of us in wrbs, and barriers
@@roberthaverlock8605 Why is it crappy compared to systems that are available for use in the US. Comparing it to unavailable of overpriced systems in Europe says nothing.
@@roberthaverlock8605 What are the systems or products you think are most useful from Europe? We're looking to very heavily renovate an old home in 2023, and while I'm planning on ZIP (following Matt Risinger's recommendations on best installs), I'm definitely curious about other options.
Please do a video on the Zip System 2.0. Huber came out with a second iteration of the system that includes a liquid flash product for joints in the sheathing and nail penetrations, rather than the tape. The liquid flash seems like it could solve some of the common install issues you point out in the video.
Sure, the liquid flash could solve some of these issues, but what happens to the liquid flash overtime through expansion and contraction as well as thermal load? Not what I would want to rely on long-term to keep water out of my structure!
This entire install job was a big yikes. You did a good job shedding light on install failures and short comings.
That is the point of what I was trying to do. Thank you for realizing that. Most people just want to say how it would be a great system if it’s installed correctly. Unfortunately, I have yet to see one of the systems installed correctly not even close! Thanks for watching.
So would their Liquid flashing be a better alternative? Also you Mention permeability, If you where to insulate the inside with a Close Cell Foam, would that eliminated condensation issues? I plan on building a house in about 12 mos. but also want to seal the house as best as I can.
ZGERMAN I have not personally seen anyone use the liquid flashing with the ZIP systems I have personally seen. Therefore I don’t know how that will work overtime. I can only imagine if people can’t install the tape correctly imagine the time and the effort that it is going to take to install the liquid flashing and especially now that ZIP is recommending all of the fasteners be sealed with the liquid flashing as well. They continue to change their installation instructions which tells me that they are aware of these problems!
This is on the contractor! A good gc goes along way
Modern building science says your WRB should be 10-20 perms. Modern OSB sheathing is around 2-5 perms.
Huber states their OSB component in Zip panels is 2-3 perms (normal OSB range), and the WRB component is 12-16 perms (acceptable limits by modern building science).
With Tyvek at 58 perms, that is going to allow vapor drive into the walls from the exterior. And depending on your cladding (brick, stone, stucco) you're just asking for rot. And the OSB you sheathed the house with is still in that 2-5 perm range.
Plain and simple, junk installation of Zip Systems is not any better than junk installations of Tyvek.
Not really if something can breath and dry it won't rot as much as something sealed air tight with moisture
Then how much a proper installation cost by the hour
Chris Mata that is the point. This system very rarely gets installed correctly because it is so time consuming which is costly to install properly. 90% of the homes that I’ve seen with this system look exactly like this one unfortunately. That is the point of this video I am not seeing housewrap installed incorrectly is any better. This system has many more opportunities to go wrong than housewrap ever thought of.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Your comments on the problems are correct. Another point not mentioned is that ZIP requires the use of 6-inch ZIP tape at the windows. This example uses the same 3-3/4 inch tape as on the panel seams.
Very well explained and put
Lets be honest
Even if you pay great labor
Contractors workers will not detail like you want them to
No matter how much you monitor them
Its hard to install a perfect zip system
That is the point of the video! Wouldn't it be so much nicer and safer to install a quality housewrap?
The Zip system has no problem, the installer has to learn how to properly installed the product!
OSB board is cheap and sloppy like a 2 bit hussy.
Installers just want to get it done as fast as they can, don’t don’t care
@@MegaThepow yup, this is what keeps the mold business booming, which has taken off.
Not to mention all of the families being subjected to mycotoxins from particular species, causing serious harm. But yeah, what do builders care… Before, we thought it was the poor mold remediation companies destroying lives, but now our data shows it’s shit builders. Thanks.
Anything that needs to be “properly installed” isn’t really a good product. Here in the real world people aren’t very smart and that’s a very important thing to keep in mind.
What about when you use closed cell spray foam in the walls and ceilings that a lot of people are doing now to satisfy the HERS score? Seems that the closed cell foam can seal any holes from nails and such??? Thanks.
you refer to a video that did a test showing water leaking through that nail penetration with a large head weight of water pushing down on it. It also showed the same test on tyvex. The only thing is, they did not put that water over a fastener. In the spray test, tyvex leaked at its fasteners quite a bit. The solve is, liquid coat your pens.
Just replaced some windows in a house with tyvek on it that was built 20ish years ago. Will never use any type of housewrap again after seeing how deteriorated it was. Zip is the only way to go.
The only time I have seen Tyvek deteriorated, it was installed with rigid siding, stucco or faux rock right up against it with nowhere for the water to drain. This makes the cladding materials rot which in turn looks like it affects the Tyvek. If Tyvek is installed with a drainage plane on top of it before the cladding is installed, it will do it's job for many many years! Another circumstance I have seen Tyvek deterioration was from bugs that are in the wall cavity feeding on the rotting wood that is water logged! If Tyvek is installed correctly water will not get behind it & these issues will not occur! All products require proper installation to work as intended. Thanks for the comment & for watching!
You have to use a system that is hard to screw up from the lowest common denominator... The labor installing it.
There are very very few craftsman left who take pride in their work. So many of these homes are made by major companies doing tract homes, all built by the lowest bidder and barely trained to do a half decent job. They'll get it done, but that's it.
Water proofing systems are critical, and if there is any area of the building to not screw up, it's your roof and your waterproofing. Failures there lead to massive and expensive internal failures that don't become visible for years.
Yes! So right!
I think this is spot on, not only calling out the sloppy work but also the possible long-term issues even if applied the right way. Houses need to breathe, part of why so many 100 year old houses remain solid and 30 year old houses are rotting. But many contractors are like sheep following new and untested technologies.
Houses do not need to breathe if they are designed well.
Looking for your opinion on the following. Just added a large garage and family room to my house and used Zip Board. Totally not happy with the install as the contractor did not roll the tape. Architect was the one who advocated for the zip system. Built my house 30 years ago and used Tyvek. When I stripped the old siding off the Tyvek was still in good condition other then it did not seem to be as strong as it was when I installed it.
What is your opinion on using Tyvek over the zip board? Siding is going to be cedar clapboards.
Tyvek over the zip system will be a great thing to do for your structure. if you are installing any cladding materials that will be touching the Tyvek (hardie, rigid siding, stucco or faux rock) I would recommend installing a drainage mat that is a minimum of 1/4". This will prevent the water from damming & causing issues. If you are installing brick or natural stone for your veneer then you will not need a drainage mat. When installing the Tyvek make sure to hang the Tyvek below the bottom plate line (joint where the slab meets the wall) as well as making the Tyvek go up past the soffit line. These are two common errors I see when housewraps are installed! Also make sure to lap the Tyvek over any flashings & the top of the window tape to create the shingle effect! Hope this helps & thanks for watching:)
Do yourself a favor and do not staple the Tyvek to the zip sheathing. Use the Tyvek as a rain screen only. Install 1" wide x 1/4" or 3/8" thick vertical strips of plywood onto the sheathing then stretch the Tyvek over and staple it to the strips. This leaves a 1/4" air space between the sheathing and Tyvek. This serves two purposes 1)air circulation 2) prevents and water that may have gotten behind the Tyevk from touching the sheathing. Forget about the perm rating of Tyvek. You want as much air circulation behind it as possible in order for any moisture or water droplets built up behind it to dry out as fast as possible.
Yeah I know its a bit more work but it's the best way to protect the sheathing and still allow air circulation. This is what I did to my shop 25 years ago. I took off a section of my board and batten siding 2 weeks ago to install a new rear entry door. The OSB sheathing and Tyvek are pristine as the day I originally installed it.
When using the zip system, you have to include the building as a passive house system. You can't use the standard heating and cooling. You need to set it up to have a continuous passive ventilation system such as HRV or ERV along with a dehumidifier system. Otherwise, because you're creating a air tight envelope to the exterior house, you're going to have condensation issues.
This
This has nothing to do with Passive House, that is a thing. You DO need to correctly design the HVAC systems and mechanically control the air coming into the home. No matter what your Air Barrier system, and you should control your fresh air intake, ie bring it in intentionally and filter it properly, not just let leak in through holes in the envelope bringing in pollen, odors and other air pollutants. Good Indoor Air quality is something that everyone deserves. Not Leaky Houses. I am simply describing a Pretty Good House, not a Passive House.
Correct!
Can Delta be bought in the US ? It’s a german brand such as tyvek.
Yes it can & that is a much better option than ZIP is for sure!
The title should be “shoddy workmanship problems,” as the current title infers it’s a material problem. I’m not defending Zip, as I use plywood exclusively...but it’s important to distinguish manufacturers vs a builder who obviously doesn’t care about building a quality structure.
Would you recommend asphalt felt with plywood -- or something else?
man all homes now i see dont even bother with pplywood abymore
We use a belt and suspender system.... adding a high performance drainable housewrap (preferably one with at least a 1mm spacer) to the zip system allows you the ability to "shingle" the drain plain, flash the windows correctly and provide drainage. Eliminates the potential for failure due to improper taping and nailing.
Geoff911sc very good practice!
I have been researching and looking at different systems to consider when building my house next year. I am going to use the 5/8 zip system on the exterior of my home. I am framing it myself. I am not a builder but I know how to frame a house and I guarantee you that it will definitely exceed code. I will not use the tape. I will use the tubes. To fasten it I will use screws. I hate nail guns. Everything in my house is going to be screwed together.
You might check this out first:
ua-cam.com/video/Hi_a2godZ0o/v-deo.html
ZIP makes a great structural panel but I would cover it with Tyvek if it were mine! Thanks for watching and commenting.
So a year later, how’s the house build going? I’m in the same boat right now (not a builder, framing my own house with Zip) and I can’t imagine how much more work screwing would be over nailing. I screwed my 1-1/8” Advantech subfloor just fine, but that’s going into a 2-2/2” wide joist chord, not the 1-1/2” edge of 2x lumber.
Interested in your feedback!
@@superspeeder Look for the Simpson Strong Tie framing screws. Preferably 3.5 inches long. That's what I used. It's more work but creates a stronger wall. They're especially better if using engineered lumber. Try driving or shooting a nail into engineered lumber. It won't work out to well for you because of the density.
@@gregsatterly9412 , ah, I’m just fastening the Zip to KD SPF, not engineered material. I will say, however, that my cordless Metabo (Hitachi) framing nailer puts 3-1/4” galvanized ring shanks into LVL beams with no problem at all, so I wouldn’t anticipate issues with 2-1/2” nails into engineered studs unless perhaps PSL is far more dense than LVL? I have not used PSL but will likely order some for walls that support cabinetry.
If you're fastening sheathing with screws you've already screwed up, screws have very poor shear strength, I hope you enjoyed your failed sheathing inspection. Nail guns have depth settings, learn to use them.
Excellent video, very informative!
Thanks for watching!
Great video, thanks for sharing
Essential Craftsman subscriber here😉
Use Liquid Flash over the Nail Holes and use a Bondo spreader to smooth it out.
What about all the other issues?
or just tyvek it and save on labor paying some scammer sub to spend a week bondoing nail holes
It doesn’t matter what the product is-if you’re not installing it to the manufacturer’s instructions, you will have failures.
I'm wondering if 4 years later you feel the same about the zip system?
I noticed most of the comments are on the installation of the product, which seems to have been very poorly done. However, I really took note about the potential condensation problem. Besides the wrap, which I'm not sure I'll be able to do, what other method would you suggest?
There are fluid applied products you can use DuPont Tyvek makes one. The Tyvek wrap would be the easiest to do if you can use fasteners but if you are dealing with block or concrete walls you may need to use the fluid applied WRB. If you do use the fluid application make sure to read the installation instructions & install it properly. If you do that you will have a great system of protection! Tyvek also has a certified installer program if you would like help & it's free! Get on the DuPont website & search for a certified installer in your area. Thanks for watching & hope this helps you!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Awesome, thanks so much! And yeah, I'll be dealing with brick and concrete. ;)
Makes me think of when I see people installing “50 year” shingles and shooting nails all over the place, there’s a nailing line on the shingle but it’s like the dudes are just trying to get the nails out of their guns as fast as they can and don’t care.
is there a flashing that should be on that bottom? Seems like a good see for a aluminum flashing
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Yes there should be a termination flashing that works in conjunction with the zip system tape. The beauty of housewrap is you don’t have to worry about that, you just simply run the bottom of the housewrap past the bottom plate line and your done! That is why you will see this wrong on many zip system homes....Thanks for interacting!
Weather Proofing America
What is your opinion of the Zip system if it is installed correctly and a home that has an ERV and/or a HRV installed in it as well?
If it was installed correctly it may be fine for some personally unknown time but relying on solely adhesives to keeps mother nature out is not my idea of a safe bet long term!
Needs a drip cap or "z" flashing installed on top of the block wall(before the zip sheathing is installed) to go up the block face vertically(1 1/2" with an 1/2'" inward turned hem at the bottom which is then bent out at 45 degrees, shedding water away and out from the block), over top of the block laterally(preferably on a 10 degree angle or better), and vertically up the framing members, then install the sheathing so that it doesn't touch the lateral bend of drip cap at its lowermost point, kind of like a piece of hardi-plank siding, never let the edges get wet, or you're fucked. Well, at least that's what I would have done.
So you're saying you randomly walked up to a house, started filming and poking around at the tape, and meanwhile I am hearing circular saws going in the background? Why not grab one of those chuckleheads to come out and teach us both a lesson at the same time?. Odds are pretty good, that they are the installers.I'm sure they would love to be part of the video!
They did not speak english
Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to explain these things to someone on a job site and they say OK cool. “I’ve been doing this wrong the entire time I’ve been doing it, thanks for showing me!”
I don’t randomly go to projects people pay me to do this….
I've seen numerous UA-cam videos praising the zip system. I'm about to start a remodel on recently purchased peir and beam house. I was looking closely at the zip system, but I'm so glad I seen your video on it. How could this system be put together better? Do they prefer over hang at the bottom, could replacing zip tape for the zip caulk? I'm still undecided on zip or just osb or plywood with tyzek
Plywood with Tyvek will by far be superior in my opinion. It overlaps and will be much more user friendly for you to repair as well as install correctly! If you need any help you can always reach out and I will be glad to assist. Thanks for watching!
I have a question for you, with that over hang on the tyvek. How much over hang should that be when getting installed?
Here is a great reference for installation:
www.dupont.com/building/how-to-install.html
You can also checkout all the videos we have on our channel that will explain how to integrate penetrations such as pipes, windows etc. into the building envelope.
If I used 7/16 osb or plywood as sheathing. What product can I use to tape up the seams of the butt joints on those once installed?
Marcus Mumphrey there is no tape I have seen that will stick to osb or plywood long term. You could use zip then cover it up with Tyvek but you better make sure you have the proper ventilation and HVAC system. That will be costly also but would do what you are asking about.
Aren’t they going to install exterior walls/stucco/sidings over that system that the water has to get through just like anything else? If that much water has gotten through I would imagine there is an even larger issue with the builder doing the work. Scary thoughts
Water gets behind all claddings or veneers at some point. Some areas more than others and as a building ages the cracks and entry points become larger. So long term sustainability is why we set buildings up to manage water behind the finished product.
Zip does have a lot of steps to make sure it's done right, but so does any wrap. Also, wraps make me want to rip my hair out (especially in the wind). Ultimately I don't think it matters which system you use, so long as you actually give a damn about slowing down and doing it right.
I’m confused about the conditioned air meeting non conditioned air. Isn’t the exterior walls going to be insulated? I don’t know if I buy this finally comment about permeability and a condensation problem. If properly built I don’t think that should occur? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Neil Heuer you can think about this situation as if it were a windshield in a car. The conditioned air on the inside meeting the non-conditioned air on the outside causes condensation, the same thing will happen at the exterior wall typically on the sheathing side of the wall.
But that’s thin glass with no insulation. If you insulated behind the glass that temp difference wouldn’t exist.
Neil Heuer that is not correct you still have a thermal difference at the wall therefore creating the condensation.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica So what is the Zip System solution to that problem?
Neil Heuer that would be a question for them as they don’t seem to be concerned or possibly even thought of it....that’s part of the point here is this product is set up for failure in my opinion!
Good video on poor implementation. I don’t see a problem with the product, so much as I see a problem with training. Are folks in your area licensed?
@Bill Barnews Build a zip wall.
@Bill Barnews ur an idiot
@Jerk Of All Trades How do you they were illegals? I don't understand. It could've been anybody.
Plenty of lazy Americans that install everything wrong, and they take 3 times as long to do it that illegals
When you've seen enough of their work you can tell this is Mexicans that did it. On the west coast it's almost all Mexicans now that are putting up Tract homes. They hire them to save money, do it fast and cheap. They don't care if the work is done right. For the most part they have gotten better over the years. But the builder still wants it fast and cheap.
This system are for tight or passive homes. I agree, the taping job was horrific, but people with these tight homes have a dehumidification system on top of ERV type system.
I've been a tyvek builder since it replaced #15 felt...:)...The Zip system, done right, is good though...I'm too cheap to pay 28 bucks a sheet...the price point Per sq ft is way cheaper for tyvek.
The selling point of Zip is time savings...but I suspect that once you have taped it properly, rolled the seams...does it take as much time as installing Tyvek? I would guess it is pretty close. Clearly this example is a contractor saving time on the taping, which should be expected.
There are much better in-between options, Tyvek is middle of the road these days.
@@chrisbenoit1035 How do you think asphalt felt compares to tyvek?
@@travisburch4342 I think it's a poor option especially the way hones are built these days. Felt has an extremely low perm rating but when saturated it skyrockets, it's like turning on a faucet. If you had an old cedar cabin or something of the like with little insulation it's not a bad option as there is lots of opportunity to dry out after a rain event.
As we build homes tighter together with more products right on top of each other you need better bulk water holdout and an ability to mitigate hydrostatic pressure.
If I was building my own home I would use Zip R 3 at least covered with 2" of xps covered with a rainscreen or at worst a drainable housewrap depending on choice of cladding.
@@chrisbenoit1035 Thanks for this.
Would you say a drainable housewrap is always better than normal WRB's (paricularly for a brick veneer)?
That house is an excellent example of what not to do on so many levels - framing, sheathing, taping, sill prep and the list goes on. Look at how uneven the panels are at the seams, that causes bump and ridges that are hard to tape and obviously this contractor never heard of a roller. The bottom course of OSB should be outside the foundation wall and stop 1.5-2" below TOF, z flash and liquid flash. Windows, well they are rarely done right. Perms - insulation and HVAC have a lot to do with where that should be.
And the list goes on…..
Thanks for watching!
I'm digging what your saying about the condensation aspect of this although if it is enough to do any damage is to be seen. I do a lot of major tile work in baths and showers and we deal with the same likely hood. It seems that every point you brought up was an installation problem. Also the tape shouldn't be used they make a spreadable sealer that works 10000 times better than tape. Honestly taping over something this close to the exterior with weather being a factor is something that should be reconsidered anyway. It will be interesting to see how this product fairs over time as I have seen a lot of great videos on it but have not used it myself. Thanks for making the video and bringing up these points.
Zip works fine. Installer failed
Robert Montgomery
www.dupont.com/dpt/tyvek-weatherization/zip-sheathing-system.html?src=gg-kg_tyvek-X-us_zip-system&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoo7gBRDuARIsANeJKUYsbOeO4PSPMVgkVTBfiLomezBYdZCXot_ZYfjwg3wO0z0EoKEULvUaArUKEALw_wcB
After reading these articles give me your thoughts? Thanks for watching:)
www.dupont.com what would expect? Dupont singing the praises of zip?
@@WeatherProofingAmerica You can't post an "article" done by the competition and blindly label it as fact. Third party, independent testing is the only testing that truly "proves" anything. Biased studies and bullshit articles are a cancer on the building science community.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica
You can't post an Dupont site as evidence that tyveck is better.
They manufacturer tyveck, of course they will say their product is better.
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Here's the answer to your Tyvek sponsored video. ua-cam.com/video/p3q09-Thebs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MattRisinger
I would like to see your video on how you fix these issues.
Well first we have to remove the exterior finish (brick, stucco, siding etc.) then we have to remove the zip panels that have water behind them so we can remove and replace water damaged materials. Then we install new plywood and cover the exposed wall with Tyvek. Then we fabricate and solder any necessary flashings & put the exterior finish back on! Quite simple but very costly....
Thank you for that! I am educating myself in order to avoid future problems.
How is sloppy installation the fault of the manufacturer?
Because they have marketed and sold contractors on this being the magical fix all water intrusion problems system that is easy and quick to install. Well if done correctly that is no where near true! But when done like this one it is faster and maybe even easier! So my point is this is a random project with 10 others immediately surrounding it with the same exact issues. The proper installation is going to be a very low percentage of installations of these type of systems. Unfortunately the devastation will be catastrophic just wait and see!
So what system are you proposing
The biggest issue with coated osb are the horizontal tapes. They are not in a shingle fashion. I see sites all over where they have to install a housewrap over zip. and redundancy is not a bad thing when it comes to water management. The biggest lawsuit for water management was in Sodoma, AZ because it was not breathing adequately. Yes in the desert. Tyvek at 58 perms is also tight. I see many cases where it sticks to the osb because of condensation not coming out. LP & James Hardie are now recommending drainable housewraps with a minimum of 1mm non-compressive spacers. In Louisiana and Canada it's a min 3/8" gap.
Air gaps should always be used on any rigid fascade that is directly fastened to the wall. This would include stucco, any rigid siding(hardie, wood, composite), faux rock etc. Thanks for watching!
@@WeatherProofingAmericahow would you do an air gap on hardie plank?
1: Zip presumes the builder will actually assemble the system right (according to their guidelines). If they don't, it's not ZIP's fault. (Rolling out the tape, proper overlaps, use of nailing marks, etc.)
NO system is "foolproof". Fools are DAMNED creative in their ability to screw things up. Either deliberately or accidentally.
2: Proper quantity and use of exterior insulation will move the condensation point out away from the stud/sheathing assembly. Additionally, proper HVAC controls should be in place to limit interior moisture content. Properly controlled for, not just "slapped up", and you don't run into condensation problems.
3: Look for "ZIP 2.0" on UA-cam. Use of liquid flashing at the wall base, around windows and over nail/staple intrusions will basically reseal the surface. Takes a little longer, and costs more. But the end product is simply superior to house wraps of anything besides peel & sticks.
The ZIP 2.0 video is a sellouts way of getting paid! This magic liquid flash is not a solution & you should never rely on caulking, adhesives & sealants to keep water out! Shingling materials & longer lasting products are the solution not more caulking!
Anything that doesn't allow the water to get back to the surface is a bad product. Shingling effect and proper flashing is the only way
@@WeatherProofingAmerica are you calling Risinger a sellout?
@@HubstepCamaro you bet I am! I only speak the truth. Go ask that sellout if he is paid by Huber? He used to promote Tyvek and understands why it is a superior product but it’s not lining his pockets! Hope he sees this and the many other times I have called him out for his misleading bs that is actually paid propaganda!
The contractors that installed the sheathing are absolute clowns. Thanks for giving the overall building community a black eye.
Ryan Kelly unfortunately this is happening more often than not all around the country! This will be one of the most costly expenses in this industry for homeowners in my opinion!
I will have work for life repairing this trash
The problem is the installation, NOT the product.
prunejuicepb so you think that it is okay to rely on miles of tape, that has to have the surface it is going on free of debris & then has to be installed perfectly & rolled for it to work. This is a product issue for sure and let me tell you why! If this product is being marketed and sold as a faster easier solution to housewrap. This gives installers false security in this system therefore it is hardly ever installed correctly! In any climate but the desert this system has potential to cause major condensation issues in the exterior walls.....we haven’t even touched on the thousands of exposed nail-heads that will take forever to seal with the magic liquid flash which is why most homes don’t have anything sealing all those penetrations! If you would like to believe that this system works then I hope you are willing to put this on YOUR investment! Thanks for watching & your interaction!
Cmon people! Is the like button so hard to hit! Excellent short video guys! Thanks for the information. I'm getting ready to build and this was very informative.
Much appreciated!
My biggest question with the tyvek, is what about the thousands of holes that the siders put through it? Maybe you can answer that. I haven’t found anyone else who can.
Juston Brazada that is a great questions! It's very simple, they are not holes unless the nails are pulled out! If the nail is in the hole the water molecules actually seal around the nail & Tyvek & the water runs around the nail because that is the path of least resistance! Sounds strange I know, but that's what happens most of the time. However if that small amount of water does get behind the Tyvek, the high perm rating that Tyvek has will allow the water to escape & not cause any issues!
Weather Proofing America, what ties do you have with DuPont? Your comments read like Tyvek brochures.
superspeeder my only ties to DuPont is using Tyvek for the past 15 years to correct water intrusion!
Weather Proofing America, do you build new homes or just repair/remodel? I ask because I’m curious how airtight an envelope can be using Tyvek. It certainly seems like an airtight exterior shell is just about impossible if relying on Tyvek, given that bare typical OSB cannot be relied on for airtightness when taped/sealed. I’ve yet to see builders showing off blower door results using Tyvek sealed exteriors.
The average builder does a horrendous job with Tyvek, and even a careful builder would be hard pressed to do a truly good job of air sealing with it.
This video is a bit misleading, especially the talk of permiability at the end. You're assuming that the home will be poorly insulated. Given the quality of the installation shown, that may be true, but Zip done right looks like a great product when combined with other quality building products and practices.
That’s a shame. Very carelessly done. Idiot proof doesn’t mean lazy proof.
I current have a builder building my home and they also used the zip system and this system leaks through the walls at windows , nail holes and any where it has a fastener. We are scared this is going to be a big problem later if walls do not have a wrap on exterior walls and now also scared about the roof.
Thomas Cotton did they already cover up the zip with you exterior veneer? If not it’s not too late to wrap it. The roof should be fine everywhere except areas where roofs intersect with walls or flashing areas.
hopefully 9 months ago ... u sued the contractors ass and won !
Citation needed on the perm rating
I’ve always heard that zip was within the 10-20 perms that a modern passive-like house would have.
That is what they would love for you to believe but that is not true! Read this article & you will find the truth about that perm rating!www.dupont.com/content/dam/assets/products-and-services/construction-materials/assets/Tyvek-vs-ZIP-System-Tech-Talk-K17924-1.pdf
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I note that DuPont offers a 10-year warranty on Tyvek products. ZIP System products have 30 years warranty. I don't know what to make of that, because warranties seldom pay off in the end. I think Matt Risinger says he prefers to use the commercial version of Tyvek (when he uses Tyvek).
I clicked to see common problems to avoid and find that perhaps you could look more into the building science before misguiding viewers. This is obviously a bad installation of a great material. I see you are heavily into shingling, but I sense a misunderstanding of air sealing. Tyvek gives us zero air sealing, and the transitions are a challenging origami for new construction crew to master. When done right, Zip-R gives us shear, thermal break, air sealing, and waterproofing. Liquid flashing can easily solve the problems you highlight, with just two products. That's a lot of steps saved, and worth learning to do well. From a building perspective, we want the low perms - let it dry to the inside from the inside, and dry to the outside with a rain screen. The inboard insulations will prevent any condensation. There are more facets to this picture than shingling. We'll be using it on our upcoming project and this is how I found your video. Peace.
I am not sure where I have misguided anyone but maybe you could fill me in after you educate yourself better! The video is designed to show the common problems we see when taking these systems apart to correct water intrusion. I simply stopped by a random house with the ZIP system on it & sure enough found the same problems we see when correcting water intrusion! The video is not showing how this system doesn't work when installed correctly (that has been proven by several different third party testing companies already), the video simply shows how it is not an easy system to install correctly & when its installed incorrectly it is not forgiving! If you want to rely on tape & caulking to keep water out of your structure without any way to shingle anything then you are welcome to do so but to me that goes against all the weatherproofing experience I have! I wish you luck when using this system & hope that you pay close attention to detail & get every piece of tape perfectly adhered as well as cover every fastener hole! Peace
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I guess I missed where you discuss how Tyvek performs in air sealing. Not sure if you are against it or unaware of the issue. Perhaps that's not your problem so you do not care about this.
I've seen many more examples where Tyvek, tapes, staples, cap nails, shingling around doors, windows and other penetrations are more difficult to execute at a high level than Zip 2.0. Zip 2.0 is a great system. Have never liked the tapes & don't see the longevity in that approach. Keeping water out of an air-leaky house seems like a lost opportunity to do a good job, performance-wise. Wherever we get on the ladder, we can look both up AND down. I always ask what the best in the world are up to. Ignoring the bigger picture while touting a single aspect shouts of snake oil. That's all.
Don Kingery the big picture from my perspective is this system will more often than not, be installed poorly which will set homeowners up for massive payouts to correct something they should not have to! Tyvek installed poorly still covers the majority of the vulnerabilities ZIP doesn’t! If you look more into Tyvek you will find that it is intended to & can be a great air barrier also if installed correctly! The reason I like to recommend Tyvek is because I have personally used Tyvek to CORRECT many types of water intrusion and have seen things that most don’t because of us taking wall systems apart daily!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica I'm a general contractor and not a sub. I often tell clients that if someone is selling pickles, then pickles are the answer to every problem in the world. I'd concede that the fixing that you do is not about Tyvek, but poor workmanship. I've spent many years fixing bad work, and it's almost always the workmanship and not the products that are to blame. I started using Tyvek on custom homes way back in the 1980s because it was an improvement over felt paper. This was before building science knew what was happening with air, water, and thermal leakage. Heating and cooling a home, only to have conditioned air leak out is wasteful. Tyvek, if installed in a laboratory perfect manner (rare) and addressing all the penetrations, hundreds or thousands of staples, origami, etc. (even more rare), can address water intrusion, but does nothing for air infiltration nor thermal transfer. This means many additional steps for much less benefit. This is the 21st century. Labor rates in our area are higher, perhaps, than in your area. I gave up trying to save material costs and working for less money or asking others to do so. We get paid for end results; not by saving a penny only to cost our clients dollars over the decades to come. I like the synergy of systems that deliver multiple benefits - air + water + moisture + thermal. If both belt and suspenders leak, neither is effective.
Good framers are being driven out by cheap contractors who would rather save a buck on the guy who charges less. Unfortunately all the problems you are talking about are due to this. You get what you pay for usually. Our company no longer frames development houses because of this. I have always used regular osb and tyvek. I wonder what the warranty is on the actual tape it self. Once that tape fails you no longer have that water barrier at the joints which is the most critical. On tyvek as long as it’s over lapped correctly (installed correctly) it will always drain to the bottom.
Chad Fullard You are 100% correct! That is the primary point of this video, ZIP is marketing their product as easier and quicker to install than traditional house wraps which is completely false and this is the end result on 90% of the jobs that this product is applied.... sad news for the homeowners!
Chad
If your company is using OSB AND if you care about quality, Find another company to work for...
OSB is CRAP.. Construction can be enjoyable if those that you hire are quality minded.
If not, get rid of them.
Very poor carpenters were on this job. Hard to say the zip system is bad when it’s applied in this mannor…. This is brutal work… and I wouldn’t have these guys on a crew for very long.
Tyvek as any system can leak as much or more if not installed correctly!
I would agree with that minus the fact that it is very rare to find housewrap lapped wrong but it is very common to see this on a zip project. So the probability of an issue with housewrap is much less than having a problem with a coated sheathing product like this. Not to mention the miles of tape you are hoping they cleaned the osb surface before applying & rolled it on with a roller, then you hope it stays stuck longterm....Not my idea of a good system! Thanks for watching
No one reads the installation manual and it all about get it done hit and run let the next person deal with it that why it hard for me to find help cause everyone want to do bare minimum
that is why you can only engineer a system as good as the installers are. same for music.
This is why I am a handyman and quit bidding jobs that I need help for. Lazy good for nothing bums that call them selves construction workers.
You are right about the issue. However I think that when you use flash seal you correct all of those issue. And about the condensation part. If you use zip with foam and. A good interior insulation you will not have any issue..... but It is not idiot proof. You cant make any mistake. Or you ''will'' have issue. Zip is for pro and perfectionist installer. Air tight house are a lot harder to build than breathing house.
Completely agree. People use it cause it’s fast and don’t take any care. Tyvek or bust! Blue Skin and Majvest are also great self adhered products.
Zip failures will be a HUGE stream of work in 15-20 years
Thanks for the input!
I completely agree. People are using it everywhere and I think its going to be a huge money maker for us to repair and replace all the rotten wood.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 that’s just misinformation my man. It does a great job at preventing water intrusion. But the biggest benefit is it allowed the sheathing to dry out and the house can breathe. Tyvek, specifically the commercial wrap, is a superior WRB
Here’s a pretty good video. Definitely not self sealing but it does a good job at preventing water intrusion
ua-cam.com/video/gTYqRGeb8jY/v-deo.html
Excellent review of this product compared to Tyvek. I've been studying building science heavily for several months and it's tough to find videos like this. Zip systems look appealing but it's hard to justify the cost vs other alternatives. Breathability is definitely an essential component to the longevity of the structure. Can Tyvek homes be built as tight and what is the comparable high R value option...rigid insulation below OSB?
Tyvek can absolutely be a great air barrier when all the seams are taped, Tyvek ran past bottom plate line & above the top plate as well as the windows installed per DuPonts instruction!
I was with you until you stared talking about breathability. Homes don’t need to breath people do.
Use zip boated with zip liquid flashing instead of tape resolves all the issues you pointed out.
No system works of Installed improperly.
Homes may not need to "breathe" (assuming you have a way to maintain indoor air quality).. but they DO need to be able to dry to the exterior if/when moisture winds up in the wall cavity. Yes I know... water isn't supposed to get into the cavity... but in most parts of the country, we have swing climates and environments that are the opposite in August and February.
You do not know about structures then. Study fluid dynamics as well as thermo and you might understand. Check out the Psychometric chart.
anything that can rot needs to breathe, just not in the literal sense that you're taking it!
MrJpw1974 so is it better to allow something that can rot to breathe or prevent it from getting wet?
You can't blame the product if it was poorly installed.
Is there any liquid sealant system for Tyvek, if you don't want to use tape?
Kevin Hornbuckle DuPont makes fluid applied Tyvek for block or concrete walls but I am not aware of any liquid sealant to replace the tape.
Hope the framers don’t show up and beat you up for talking smack on their horrible work 😂. I also don’t like that system but as someone else mentioned here. “What about all the holes that are made on the Tyvek when installing siding etc.” I’ve seen framers just tack the hell out of Tyvek and put a million holes without taping it? That’s before the siding goes on. Great video by the way👍🏼.
Contractor's Work Network that is a great question! It's very simple, they are not holes unless the nails are pulled out! If the nail is in the hole the water molecules actually seal around the nail & Tyvek & the water runs around the nail because that is the path of least resistance! Sounds strange I know, but that's what happens most of the time. However if that small amount of water does get behind the Tyvek, the high perm rating that Tyvek has will allow the water to escape & not cause any issues!
yep: and tons of water gets in. it pools and usually comes in the windows but sometimes the floor from between stories.
What's to keep the Tyvek fasteners from causing those same leaks?
If button caps are used the water tension actually makes the water run around the fastener head following the plastic cap. But let's say that water gets behind the Tyvek, no worries as Tyvek has a fantastic perm rating of high 50's whereas the ZIP has a very low perm rating of less than 1. So the water is trapped behind the ZIP but not the Tyvek, that is a huge difference & can cause mold, rot etc. from not being able to dry out! Thanks for watching!
Great video thank you
Zip should be paying you for the great job in pointing out "How Not" to Zip a home :) ..But in fare you do make a good point with your moisture knowledge and Tyvek data. So overall, I think your video serves greater good on many levels...
The point of this video is to shed light on the difficulty of correct installation, which is why it will be installed like this 90% of the time! The manufacturer of this product has sold builders, homeowners, lumber reps, etc that this system is so much easier & faster to install but it is simply not! It is actually very difficult to install correctly at which point the system may actually work. The other major thing I don't like about any of the Integrated systems like this are the fact that they rely on miles of tape to keep your structure safe! As opposed to the overlapping of a quality housewrap. Thanks for watching & commenting:)
So where's the video of you taking a zip home apart to show the problems encountered?
How is water going to get into that tape through the hardy board on the outside?
That is a very common question I get. The biggest way water gets behind a siding like hardie is after the caulking separates and the homeowner doesn't keep it maintained (most don't). This will allow water at the butt joints (if they didn't flash them, most don't) or around windows or any other wall penetration. Not to mention condensation that may take place depending on the climate zone. Thanks for watching!
As many others have said, it's a very poor install. I will still be using ZipR on my roof.
The low permeability is fine for me in a hot and dry area and any moisture in my roof will be able to dry inward.
I'm going to be doing the install myself so I don't have to worry about unskilled labor applying the tape wrong and I am going to liquid flash it also.
I am going to take steps to ensure that I don't create any leaks when installing my roofing.
I just like the idea of a fully bonded membrane instead of a shingled underlayment.
That is really the difference here, the Zip membrane can replace a roof underlayment. Tyvek will never say they can do that.
With that said, my roof might have four layers of moisture barrier with Zip being the last line of defense so it should live an easy and long life.
Sounds like you got it figured out! Good luck😉
I run the panels down on the foundation a couple inches, roll the tape and flush nail.....so far so good
william skrainski if you take EXTREME precautions this system might work but is very risky. I would look into a good housewrap with drainage planes depending on what veneer you are using. Hopefully you are already using drainage planes but if not check out our informational website.
Weatherproofingamerica.com
Thanks for watching!
You're just spreading FUD here. Just because you can't hire competent contractors that can install a system according to manufacturer instructions does not mean that the system is bad. There are thousands of homes built successfully using this system vs some guy who has an axe to grind on the internet (you). Please be more honest in your reviews.
Sounds like a builder problem and not a ZIP System Problems
In other words, make sure the system is installed correctly and make sure the air exchange for the house is done allowing for the walling system.
According to the third party testing done on this system after it was installed correctly it still did not perform well. However the point of this video was to show how easily this system can fail with poor installation. It has it's challenges when installed 100% correct but when installed incorrectly it really get nasty! This product is being marketed as easy to install & basically using less steps but is far from the truth! Thanks for watching!
So its not the Zip System that is bad. It is piss poor management of the laborers and the contractors not following prescribed instulation guides. Even tyvek has problems when not taped right or has other intrutions. If a home owner is having ahouse built, they should be doing research and checking in during construction to make sure the good money they are putting out is being usrd correctly not fraudulently.
David King wrong
@@George-nx5lo wow only "wrong"? No discussion of what parts you think were wrong? You must be one of those contractors who does it the cheap way or doesnt want your customer to do their research
David King watch the video
@@George-nx5lo um duh i did. And like i commented before all the bad things he dound were due to contractor neglect and formen not checking the labors work. It is a terrific system when installed correctly. Its also up to the customer to do some research and find out what system will work better for their climate. I know if i was having a house built i would do the research and double check what they were doing. Its my hard earned money paying for it and i would expect it to be installed correctly.
So does someone not make a metal drip edge for that space between the zip and the concrete foundation?
Neil Heuer there are sill flashings that you can buy but we always made ours.
So do you have a video on that and is it metal or liquid flashing? Thanks
This sounds less like problems with zip system and more like contractors who don't know what they're doing.
Unfortunately I see this or worse on every coated sheathing project I have been on! Very sad in-deed...
Why would you not tape the foundation if they recommend it?
Not sure why a lot of builders don't follow simple recommendations that make a huge difference in quality!
thank you!
Is there code inspection oversight to prevent/correct this?
Tom Rich waterproofing is something that codes don’t touch on much. So unfortunately the homeowner gets stuck with water issues!
That video comparing tyvek to the zip system, was biased (provided it's the same one I know about). They put a column of water over the fastener for zip, but on a bare piece of tyvek. If you put a column of water over the fastener for tyvek, it leaks WAY worse.
But as you said, this is an install problem. Always install according to the manufacturers specifications.
ua-cam.com/video/3paeg45EX40/v-deo.html
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Thank you for the video! So now I'm left with a test by Matt Risinger (somewhat biased as Zip is a sponsor of his), and a test by the manufacturer of Tyvek (biased as it's BY the company).
My next project will be Tyvek anyway, as it's more budget friendly, but given two different test results, leaves me to wonder. I'd like a fully independent test done, but alas, it probably won't happen.
ua-cam.com/video/E7cRgMOtz04/v-deo.html
This test was paid for by DuPont but was done by a stand up company (specializes in testing & consulting) that would not jeopardize its reputation to skew something for money. So this is a great example of why even when installed correctly (which rarely happens) I would not be comfortable with this product protecting my investment! relying on miles of tape and sealants is just not my idea of safety, we set everything up not using any sealants or caulking! Thanks for the interaction, let me know if you need help!
@@WeatherProofingAmerica Ya, I think I agree. What is your opinion on those that just staple tyvek down? That's probably not a good practice?
This is actually the video I meant to send to you!
ua-cam.com/video/Hi_a2godZ0o/v-deo.html
BTW Slap staples on Tyvek is no good!
Literally every issue mentioned was installation issues. No system is “fool proof” and your labor is what will matter.
Unfortunately you are correct but sadly this is the most common site you see with any integrated coating system because the installers think it is magical and they don't have to take time & care....the art of marketing, backfiring on them in a major way! Thank for watching!
Great video!