3400HP From ONE Pump! | What Do YOU Know About Brushless Fuel Pumps? [TECH NUGGET]
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2019
- 1100 litres of fuel flow per hour at 110 psi. That's 3400 horsepower of fuel flow capability from ONE fuel pump!
Providing enough fuel for a very high power race engine is obviously challenging. And we've probably all seen cars equipped with fuel systems consisting of multiple fuel pumps mounted in surge tanks and fuel tanks making sure that the engine has sufficient fuel to remain safe and reliable under high power operation.
The problem with this is when you are faced with multiple pumps, it provides complexity both in the installation as well as the ability for more parts to go wrong. Basically, we're opening ourselves up for more potential areas for failure. A technology that certainly isn't new but one that we've been seeing emerge over the last few years is the use of brushless fuel pumps, but the pump itself is not the tricky bit it’s the requirement of a specialised controller that is utilised to control the fuel pump speed.
Andre runs us through some of the details of Injector Dynamics Fuel Pump and Controller offerings such as 1100 litres of fuel flow per hour at 110 psi which is around 3400 horsepower of fuel flow capability. If you're running E85 this drops to around about 2200 horsepower. Another advantage of the ability to control flow with a brushless fuel pump setup like this is the ability to remove some of the excess heat that is added to the fuel when it is circulated unnecessarily.
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#highperformanceacademy #learntotune #injectordynamics #brushlessfuelpump #brushless #fuelflow - Авто та транспорт
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Thank you again for keeping things grounded for us laymen folk who don't know all the in's and out's of fuel systems! Keep pushing Andre, job well done as always.
If Brushless motors can make rc cars do 120mph than I'm sure they can do some crazy stuff for fuel pumps.
Yep, was going to say RC days lol
Brushless motors really started out early in RC aircraft and now it's proliferated to some truly massive unmanned aircraft. There are some driving experimental manned aircraft, but not many, yet. Batteries are the limit right now.
You mean 205mph... And drive superchargers to make 700hp on 5.0l sbf
Injector Dynamics is crushing it!
Seems many people don't understand the basic concept - using the controller, the pump runs at that current ONLY when the engine is demanding that fuel flow and, as Andre pointed out, it can be reduced drastically when a low fuel volume and/or pressure (if referenced) is required. Sure, if you wanted to, you could run a permanent feed to operate at that current all the time, or use a simple staged current supply, but you would lose most of the benefits. I don't see why this product couldn't be scaled down as required and, if it comes to that, lower flow rate pumps and controllers are already commonplace - many aftermarket ECUs can even do it with PDMs without an expensive controller.
Andre, I cannot seem to find any info' on this product on their web site, or elsewhere - I assume it is still in development and not a retail product yet? It is getting commonplace for race vehicles to use 16V electrical systems - do you know if the 80A is @12V, 14V, 16V, 18V or higher? [edit] I see it is approximately 12.2V - with higher voltage to the pump, can I assume the controller will reduce the current so the power draw Vs pressure.volume relationship is maintained? i.e. at a little over 16V, as would be easily maintained, the current would be around 60A for the same pump power?
Sure, for the hard case 'street' and strip-only cars a mechanically driven pump may offer simplicity, but that pump will be operating at full volume ALL the time, even at idle! May not be the optimum choice, but they sure look the dog's bollocks!
This new controller is a big deal. Yes mechanical pumps can be simpler but consider the following for a street car with a tank/cell in the back of the vehicle: Mechanical pumps attached to the front of an engine with a pulley can be difficult to prime and can occasionally lose fuel pressure as fuel has to make its way all the way from the back of the car to the pump in the front. Mechanical pumps are really good at pushing fuel out of them but they like to be gravity fed and in this configuration you're really going against gravity, especially when accelerating and the fuel has to travel forward to be fed into the mechanical fuel pump. This can be solved by having a smaller electric pump that sends the fuel forward to a surge tank, but this has its own complexities (more fittings/lines to leak, surge tank, etc.). The other option is to run a mechanical fuel pump at the rear of the vehicle with a cable drive. This is IMO the best solution but the issue here is that it's not very street friendly as the cable needs to be lubed often. Let's also not forget that you'll probably need to remove your OEM fuel tank(s) and run a fuel cell. This also means cutting up your trunk and you're likely to lose your fuel level gauge.
This makes life super easy for high output power units utilizing a non-return system, PWM control strategies using H-bridge controllers on traditional pumps wasn’t exactly on my top ten things I enjoy most; looking forward to when these are available for consumer retail.
So it's the brushless motor that makes control strategies easier? I kinda assumed it would still do with PWM
@@PaulMorris-UK It still needs a PWM instructions based on a GPC strategy, yes, but you're not juggling multiple pumps across multiple H-bridge controllers using integrated GPC strategies looking at (chasing) stable differential fuel pressure. All of this opposed to a new solution where a single fuel pump is employed with a single controller unit getting instructions from a basic GPC table.
God I love brushless motors
Mechanical fuel pump ran off the intake cam wheel for a 2JZ or RB. You can run a mechanical pump off the serpentine belt on a V8 or any other engine
Josh Lewis you can but you risk heating up your fuel wayy too much
mortada chevy a properly sized pump running at half the crank speed at all times will not overheat your fuel. Basically, at higher RPM with high load, the pump will already be moving the volume of fuel needed. At low RPM, it is spinning less, so less fuel flow. Size the pump for volume per revolution of expected amount of fuel usage at full load, and it should be good to go.
But how does boost per gear and stuff work with it... I guess its good for cars running a constant power level, but if you have some sort of boost controller youll end up either having too less or too much fuel in the other boost area... Unless you swap out pulleys n shit
That's nuts.
I would love to know total watts consumped by pump at a given flow rate vs a brushed fuel pump.
The controller is a "fancyfied" ESC.. brushless are 3 phase motors so they won't work plug and play with a 12v DC system. You need a controller to convert to 3 phase
Yes, it is a critical component - Taz.
As impressive as this is Im wondering if its worth the trouble as opposed to a engine mechanical fuel pump. Especially at those power levels.
80amps!! 80amps!!!!
Even at only 12 volts, that's over 1 horsepower!
@@brad3378 To get the same from alternatives at the same level (it's only drawing that amount when it's needed) you will still suffer losses. - Taz.
How long until we get electrical pumps that can support DI conversions in place of a mechanical high pressure one?
Also.. mixing units of measure...lol
SOME schools of thought say warm fuel is better for atomization.
you have staged fuel pump feed on stock evo ? ecu runs low voltage on cruise and under load secondary relay kicks in and increases pump flow
could a after market ecu not control that pump directly? seems to me it could
Doubt it. Big gobs of power are required to pass through the speed controller. Same for RC cars using brushless....IOW the aftermarket ecu may be able to control the speed controller but not the motor alone.
@@brettus9115 isn't that what power transistor's are for ? so you have a low voltage signal controlling hi voltage
same as how the pdm's work ?
😱😱 wow
What's your view on cam driven mechanical fuel pumps?
Mechanical pumps need to driven by the engine somehow. For cars they don't have intelligent cam control, it's an option. My car is DI, I already have a cam driven pump. But current mechanical pumps don't supply enough pressure to fire DI injectors.
Bushless pumps are the future. Most fueling needs will be handled by a single pump/controller. Aeromotive has a brush less pump
@@dj4monie I'm sure diesel mechanical pumps are already far above Di fuel pump pressures
@@dj4monie they could sure be the future of electrical fuel pumps. But with 80 amps pulled from the engine, to make a one component solution, I'm not sure electrical is the way to go necessarily. Check this pretty interesting video out; ua-cam.com/video/nO5rVlj99fE/v-deo.html
as a plumber... i like those numbers ! :P
Which loser would dislike this video..... great video matie
Thanks mate! =) - Taz.
Wouldn’t you just control the pump speed maintain line pressure?
Isn't the most common engine failure caused by running lean by either a tune,fuel injector or pump failure or inadvertently electrical failure causing low voltage to the fuel pump causing a low fuel pressure situation . Example that I'm running a competitive drag car or track car using an electrical pump if my alternator fails or a wire terminal comes loose ect my engine runs leans and my event is all but ruined by losing a motor ,If my alternator fails or wire comes loose on my mechanical pump equipped motor I'll be fine my car will just die on me and my motor is still ok and I solve a small problem and I'm back in the running
Any modern ecu will monitor fuel pressure before running lean. Fuel pressure drop will result in longer injection times up til its fail safe point where the ECU will not attempt to fire at all.
VFD CONTROLLER
I am amped up. Going slap this in my honda lol. No seriously think I really am all joking aside.
80 amps hahahahahahahahahahaha time for batteries
I think for Simplicity mechanical pump would whoop this thing.
You'd most likely run into serious fuel overheating issues.
ua-cam.com/video/nO5rVlj99fE/v-deo.html - my rebuttle is in the comments ;-)
Mechanical is superior in every way.
@@RadDadisRad what a dumb comment
@@RadDadisRad Your intelligence is inferior in every way too!
the potential to produce much more power and eliminate valve train failure for extreme performance engines is just around the corner.
For a few years now, Koenigsegg has been testing a digitally controlled and operated intake and exhaust valve head that promises innumerable advantages with NO downsides, and NO compromises for mild to extreme motor applications...truly remarkable. truly revolutionary!
The ‘FreeValve’ head will soon be on some of Koenigseg cars.
The potential to drastically increase flow without compromise or reliability is truly the holy grail of performance engines.
Typically, incremental improvements in materials and technology help improve performance and reliability. This technology on the other hand is a giant leap forward...an absolute game changer. Operates all day long at 15,000 rpm etc etc. watch video below.
Would be interesting If this channel could do a video on the application of this technology for high performance applications...
ua-cam.com/video/S3cFfM3r510/v-deo.html&feature=share
Look up pattakon DVVA it's the same basic concepts but completely mechanical and way less complicated to implement
What you describe is not a matter of brushless vs. brushed but of system design & intent, pump design, controller required (if any), etc. In short, your premise is incorrect.
Additionally, more parts is not necessarily less reliable and if considered at a system level is likely more desirable as it will reduce the possibility of catastrophic failure should as compared to a single point of failure system (like the one being advertised) suffers from any degradation.
You want one point of failure so if the pump dies so does the engine, if one pump fails out of multiple at high engine output it will likely lean out and possibly destroy the engine.
@@11ride4life , Are you being serious? Do you honestly think even a catastrophic fuel pump/controller/etc. will simply just STOP, cut all flow, all pressure, not lean, etc. and "save" the engine?
Could you also not strawman what I said with a contrived scenario when I specifically reference system level design and reliability, degradation, and failure concerns. Thanks.