The Problem with Catholic Rad Trads
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- Опубліковано 2 січ 2022
- There is a growing movement of radical traditionalist Catholics within the church (also referred to as rad trads). The problem with rad trads is that they are essentially a modernist form of the worst parts of protestantism, using the ideologies of individual interpretation and sola scriptura (from the Reformation), but not towards Scripture, rather, of Church tradition, documents and ecumenical council dogma.
By cherrypicking specific practices and teachings from various eras of their liking, while disregarding doctrinal developments as well as changes in practice over time, these schismatics often deny the current Pope as legitimate, and the new order of the Mass (Novus Ordo) as licit/valid, and attempt to apply their era's teaching of choice universally in an extremist/absolutist fashion.
The irony, is that these self-professed traditionalists are simply adhering to one era of tradition, disregarding other developments. Sadly, this schismatic thinking is causing great division in the Church today, when our Lord desires unity in truth and spirit.
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Please pray for me...I'm a convert to the Catholic church...but I have been wounded by both traditionalist and progressive Catholics....
As have many of us!
Be strong, I'm a Catholic, though I want to be one of them Traditionalist, but I won't call myself a Traditionalist, since who am I, but still I do love Catholic Traditions :D
This is my concern, innocents who get caught in the crossfire. Jesus warned us against dogs who bite and wolves who devour. I hope you find a supportive community and do what He asks you. Don't engage in this mess. Like a priest told me stay in the middle lane, avoid extremes one way or the other.
I attend NO reverently. No funny priests, no altar girls, no funny hymns, no rainbow altar.
My observation on Rad Trad, they seem very arrogantly declare they practice the best form of worship and then turn around and be uncharitable and spit fire and brimstone and be woke against their fellow Catholics. Seem they are all form but less Christ consciousness😢
@@pringlessourcream9527 I have never been to an NO mass that wasn't flagrantly commititng heresy every moment.
Thank you Chris for your brief video. There is now an ongoing online "battle" between rad trads and those in the charismatic renewal. Its exhausting for me personally since I had my conversion to Christ through charismatics and deepened my love for the Faith through the traditions of the Church including the Traditional Latin Mass. I have known people from both groups who have left the Church and in some instances have become agnostics. At the end of my life, I want to know that I have followed Christ to the best of my ability and that I helped to lead others to Christ and His Church. There is no monopoly on the Holy Spirit by any group but unfortunately thats a result of a very human church. I am comforted at least that St Paul talked about the divisions in the early Church, i.e. Corinth, because at least I know that somehow God can work through our messes, divisions, and frailties. God bless you!
Hey chris I wanted to ask a question because you met my school stbens I had a question how do you think of making your songs how do you like think of it?? I have always wanted to know
Good video! Imo liberal/Progressive Catholics and Trad Catholics share one thing in common. They are both at one end of an extreme! Trads want absolutely nothing to change, even if the change makes sense and is even for the better. Liberal Catholics want almost everything to change even if its not for the better.
Yes!
What "change" do you want and for what reason?
No those aren’t rad trads, they are Sedevacantists
NAILED IT! I just said the same.
That's exactly what I thought while watching the video. He's describing fringes within a fringe more than RadTrads, and comes awfully close to crafting strawmen to knock down. I think there are certainly problems within RadTrad circles, and I've heard some good critiques (some even by TLM priests), but comparing them to Protestants and their belief in Sola Scriptura tells me he really doesn't understand what RadTrads believe or think.
They are one and the same.
All rad trads are the same to some extent.
Thank you, Chris! I agree; we could use more beauty in the liturgy, and more clarity in the Church's teachings ....but we need to always strive for unity through charity towards fellow Catholics, and faithfulness to the Holy Father.
Amen 🙏
Unity is established through orthodoxy, and adherence to the true pope - Pope Gregory XVIII.
A young man was kicked out of the seminary for kneeling for communion. If obedience is required to obey Fr James Martin and his Bishops who walk the line of blind obedience to ambiguity. Meanwhile we turn a blind eye to the grooming going on in the culture. If you are hearing a call to defend the faith then it is our sacred obligation before God to do something about it. Please ask her self in Dubia was sufficiently answered? There in lies the problem not radical Catholic faith truth seekers or parish orphans. So far there has only been one open discussion about this topic and that was between Michael Lofton Timothy Gordon and Eric Sammons and some others. Unfortunately climate change and acceptance of sinful behaviors seems like the fashion of the day. But rad trads are a serious problem. Ok you win just cancel all the TLM Masses and force your bishops to close them down shut them down for good. Right? No not a good idea.
You know what is interesting? The libs are actually trying to be loving. Some of the radical righteous are angry, proud and very bitter.
Well said. I suggest we need to pray more *reparation prayers, holy hours, prayers that are often missed at mass due to time constraints...yikes).
Amen
Thank you for making distinctions.
I am a Catholic born in 2002. I have always followed the novus ordo and never saw anything wrong with it. My faith is as strong as any person who attends the TLM. I had many good priests who preached the values of Jesus. None of the people that went to my Church espoused anything that was contrary to the core beliefs of the Catholic Church. Translation: We fall in line with every single Conservative, Catholic, Christian value that many who go to the "Traditional Latin Mass," claim that we have abandoned. I know many converts, one of which I have sponsored through RCIA, who had their start in the Novus Ordo mass. It genuinely isn’t more or less “powerful” than the TLM, and the mystery isn’t of the mass, but the transubstantiation, and receiving of the Eucharist which is the center of Catholicism as we know it. Not the mass, the EUCHARIST. The other sacraments are also important, and as long as those are kept, and the laypeople have access to them, the Church will be fine in performing its duties in bringing more people to Christ. From what I understand, people believe that after Vatican II the church became less holy… whatever that means. I don’t think the pope was attacking the Traditional Latin Mass itself, but the people out there who believe that it is the ONLY way to truly “remedy” all the problems of the Church. First off, there are many problems within the church that are not related to the mass: rape, abortion, false teaching, pedophilia, homosexuality, and other abuses… but guess what people? All of this bad stuff happened even before Vatican II. It’s only now with the advent of technology and the media that it’s being HIGHLIGHTED. And from the public’s perspective, all these bad things only happened after Vatican II so it must have been caused by Vatican II, right? Vatican II Like all other ecumenical councils was designed to reinforce teaching that was already there, not to add anything NEW to the doctrine or canon. For the millionth time, we had to reiterate the trinity, the creed, the meaning of everything because that is the Church’s job, and for some reason people can’t discipline themselves to just remember BASIC THEOLOGY. The fact that they needed an ecumenical council meant that somewhere someone was teaching something false. That isn’t a mass problem… that is a teaching problem. So the actual solution… is to get better teachers. What a concept: getting people who are better trained in church teaching into the priesthood. The mass doesn’t deceive people… people deceive people. To blame a format of the service for the problems of the Church is misguided at best, and malicious at worst. It is misguided because the solution is to actually get better taught priests into the priesthood. It is malicious because the priests, deacons, nuns, bishops, and Popes who have committed these heinous acts don’t need theological correction, they need corporate correction. They need to go to prison for their crimes. I think that the pope doesn’t want the traditional Latin mass to become a “band aid” fix for the problems of the church. He doesn’t want us to abuse the traditional Latin mass as a way for ignoring other issues. Because if people genuinely believe that going to a different kind of service is all it takes to fix the problems within the church instead of addressing the problems directly, that is what they’re doing with the mass. They are abusing the mass to make themselves feel better. Using the mass like… a drug quite frankly. The pope has a responsibility to fix any problems within the church because we are the beacon for the world. He can’t do it on his own, and when we practice religious escapism by going to retreats or attending a different kind of mass, we are complicit in complacency and not addressing the issues we have. In a time where the world is pressuring us to change, we don’t need distractions. We don’t need a new service or a new this that or the other. We need to focus on the problems and fix them. He is directing us to get out of our shells, out of the safe haven of the Church to see and fix the problems of the world, and of course to fix the problems of the Church. If we are banded together, we can overcome any problems within the church and otherwise, but if we cower in our confession booths, if we hide in our pews, nothing will get fixed and that’s a fact. Of course people won’t understand this, because it’s so many words, so the apparent solution is to take away the distraction. Think of it this way: you have a fat kid who eats a lot, sits on the couch all day playing video games. Of course, all he has to do is get up, exercise, and eat less. But the fact of the matter is: he’s not gonna do that. He’s gonna keep on sitting there eating his lays and playing Halo. You can explain to him all day long that he needs to stop doing this and why he must stop, and he won’t. Why? Because he’s distracted. Distracted from the problem by the pleasures of the games and the chips. So, as a parent, the best thing is to really take away the chips and the video games. Sure, the child will cry and throw a hissy fit at first, but he will eventually calm down. After the distraction is taken away, the child will have time to reflect, and correct the behavior, so they can stop being fat and unhealthy. That is similar to how a lot of people treat the mass (TLM and novus ordo) retreats, etc… they go to just feel good instead of looking outwards and fixing the real problems. Pope Francis is an older gentleman. I don’t know if he had kids but he must at least know a thing or two about human nature, because he realizes that like anything humans can get their hands on, the mass can and will be abused. The same thing applies to the Traditional Latin Mass that the youth today so proudly love. He just doesn’t want us abusing the mass to escape our real duty as Catholics. I’ll give you a hint: nobody gets converted by a Catholic who never goes anywhere except Mass. abortion doesn’t get fixed by people who just attend service and do their sacraments. Battles are never won in basic training. You have to go out there and fight. You have to realize the human element in the church and fight that too. Whatever you do, if you’re a Catholic who goes to traditional Latin mass or the novus ordo, don’t be complacent, and don’t use the traditions to escape your duties that you received at confirmation.
Great summary! I am a new Catholic, starting RCIA in the Fall. I was an ardent Sola Scriptura holder for 3 decades, and I can attest that there is much overlap in the mindsets of Rad Trads and Protestantism. I found a local parish with a reverent Novus Ordo and am blessed to be there.
I hope it doesn't change! Unfortunately, the Mass can drastically change due to a switch in priests. There is no spiritual stability in the Novus Ordo.
Shared this. Thanks so much. God bless you.
Trads tend to hold to certain traditions even when the need or value for that tradition no longer exists in society! This is why I did not remain a Trad! They seemed more interested in the traditions than the reasons why they became traditions in the first place and if they still need to be held
following the world
I recently saw a very good quote while researching a paper. "The past gets a vote, not a veto" basically you should respect and learn from the past. But, you don't simply need to defer to it completely
@@thatguy913 how has that worked out for you?
@@HunnysPlaylists I'm still in college so I haven't really needed to be all that concerned about what traditions or beliefs from older generations are applicable to me yet, so Idk. I'm sure some will be beneficial as I transition into a different place in life. Generational wisdom shouldn't be disregarded, but some might be completely inapplicable for me so idk.
"They're [rad_trads] are doing the same thing the the protestant reformers did 500 years ago, except they're doing with OUR OWN CHURCH DOCUMENTS." 🤔🤣
Private individual interpretation - Sola tradition. Under the guise of tradition, yes.
@@chrisbraymusic Nah. But those narrative makers are happy with sola magisterium. Just like... wait for... the early reformers who threw out tradition and any scripture that didn't agree with their contemporary interpretation 🤣🤡
@@bugbacktoone exactly
@@chrisbraymusic Glad we can agree that those spinning the false narrative of the "meanie skizzy rad-trads" are, in fact, the ones in error here. "Gotchas" aside, I converted directly into the Latin Mass and know hundreds of Latin Rite families around the country, and the simple fact is this; the impetus for the suppression of the Latin Rite mass [as opposed to the Vulgar Rite] is a complete fabrication. I hope you'll stop doing the Devil's work in dividing your brothers. Pax Christi
One thing that TLM faithful are not is sola scriptura - not sure how you made that connection. In fact the opposite, they are usually the first to defend the papacy and it’s role, regardless of the man, as well as all infallible teachings of the Church, unlike cafeteria Catholics.
Interesting subject!
I know this video's old now, but I wanted to comment as I just saw it now and it very much resonates with me even today. I'm not Catholic or very religious myself, though I know many different Catholic people, and I've researched some of the different schisms among Catholics, most notably, the one you talked about here. Basically, my understanding of those Catholics is the same as yours. However, I've also noticed that those Catholics tend to be very antisemitic, heavily anti-immigration, and even white supremacist. Has that been your experience with them?
I’m pretty traditional. I love the Latin Mass. To be honest, I encounter very few people even suggesting that Pope Francis isn’t the pope (even if they don’t like him) or that the novus ordo is invalid (I understand that there are people that say this- I may have met one in five years-online I’m sure they speak ad nauseam). I think a lot of people consider themselves radical traditionalists that hold neither of these views. Some of your arguments seem like straw men… I think traditionalists rightly hold to tradition as it has been received through the ages, as it has organically developed. There is a problem when all of a sudden we have a “back to the drawing board” and there was a lot lost and many of the collects and prayers were altered and replaced. Many would prefer to pray the mass that Therese of Lisieux and Alphonsus prayed, even if it were in English, but Many would prefer that to what we have.
You missed the point. We can enjoy the TLM. But yes - there IS a community out there that separates itself from the novus ordo and tries to show they are better Catholics.
How about dropping this "Novus Ordo" BS (It's been "novus" for over 60 years.) and call it the ORDINARY FORM.
@@kell_checks_in Nothing from the 60s can be "ordinary" ... the term itself is taken from St Paul VI's words introducing the order of mass as opposed to the Traditional Mass.
@@andrewlane7486 See my friend that's the problem, you object to the common language our Church would use. This constant and unnecessary criticism is divisive. Jesus didn't pray for perfect masses, He prayed for unity. He warned against the dogs and wolves who bite sheep, the pharisees who tie on unnecessary burdens. If the devil can't trick you in to doing evil, he'll trick you in to doing "good."
@@BitsyBee if Pope St. Paul VI called the new rite of mass the Novus Ordo missae, then I think my conscience is clear in this regard. Just because someone personally takes issue with its use and demands that we call the mass of 1970 the “ordinary form” doesn’t mean that all people who simply refer to it the way Paul VI did are somehow divisive. I prefer one legitimate term to another, is that such a big deal?
Don’t be so quick to judge peoples intentions, my dear.
Rad trads say we should go back to Latin because it was the traditional language of the Mass. Why not Greek because much of the Gospel was written in Greek? Or even better, Aramaic, because that was the language Jesus spoke? Latin came much, much later.
Latin Is The Language Of The Church.
Bro got told that he couldn’t bash his drums in a Latin mass so now he’s sad 😂
Yeah, lol. He wants his clown Mass. the thing is, Trent and Vatican I were dogmatically binding; Vatican II was not. The council said that clearly, and so did the pope at the time. Which means Vatican I and Trent are still the law of the land
Lmfaooo
According to Wikipedia citing Cardinal Ratzinger aka Pope Benedict XVI This is what is said of his opinion of Versus Populum.
"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) in his book the Spirit of the Liturgy criticized the use of versus populum as ahistorical and even harmful to the liturgy. He stated that versus populum "turns the community into a self-enclosed circle", where the presider becomes the real point of reference instead of God. He also maintained that praying toward the east (ad orientem) is a tradition that goes back to the beginning of Christianity and that is a "fundamental expression of the Christian synthesis of cosmos and history" and urged Catholics to gradually return to this tradition. On the other hand, he warned against quick and frequent changes to the liturgy, so he proposed a temporary solution - placing the cross in the middle of the altar, so the entire congregation "turns toward the Lord", who should be the real center of the Mass.[25]?
So I guess he was a rad trad for saying that versus populum the main way the NO is taught is a rupture of the liturgy.
I would also like to say this charitably this is a straw man of traditionalism. I recommend you look into the TFP.org for more info on traditionalist views. Also I agree the Novus Ordo is valid. But you dont understand what the Sede arguments are for saying its invalid. I also want to let you know out of charity that you need to differentiate "rad trad" "traditionalism" with that of Sedevecantism which btw is a schismatic movement. There are reasons traditionalists hold their views its not cherry-picking things. I again recommend the TFP, Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Ranjith, and Bishop Athanasius Schnieder for more info thank you.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versus_populum#:~:text=Versus%20populum%20(Latin%20for%20%22towards,other%20side%20of%20the%20altar.
Hi Chris. I couldn’t agree more. I have a big issue with Rad Trads and how they are a major obstacle for growth of our Universal Church. It takes a lot of bravery to say this and I congratulate you for it.
God Bless Chris!
What a wonderful way of explaining monetary indulgences!
Jewish heretic
You hit the nail on the head with the rad trad. They are fixated on traditions of a particular point in time more than anything. As if the history of mass began and ended at the Tridentine and anything not in Latin is invalid. They ignore the fact that Latin itself is a vernacular that was adopted for the people to understand in the Roman Empire.
I do believe some of the Rad Trads as he puts it, are sincere. I also belive they are in a spectrum. But it's correct that they are dividing mostly about forms. I was shock with the negative reaction of some on their community when P. Francis meet with the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. So I agree there is much negativity.
Thanks for being a voice of reason and gentleness to say simple truth we regular folks observe and think, but no one is brave enough to say. We don't want to feed hate and division by engaging in this argument, but if we say nothing, our beloved rad trads will continue their scorched earth burning of innocents.
Earth burning of innocents?? You are a sheep to those who lie and deceive about your brothers in faith.
This video has far too few likes. Love this generous, faithful take on these confusing times
I think this video is misleading for Catholics at large. It paints a picture of traditional Catholics that is totally off. The definitions you give for a rad trad, the examples you give to how they view tradition & The Church, and your overall understanding of the traditional movement are completely different from what I have experienced. You are seriously going to compare the use of monetary indulgences as your example for a strictly held traditional belief? I think most traditional Catholics look to books like The Raccolta for indulgences which was published in 1957 and never abrogated. I know zero who look to the practices of indulgences from the 1500’s. Traditional minded Catholics look at matters concerning the liturgy and dogma, not disciplines of the Church. It sounds like you are open to dialogue and listening. Maybe you would benefit from having coffee with an actual Traditional minded Catholic rather than judging them based off online comments.
I appreciate your response. Just to clarify (because I think perhaps you might be misunderstanding why I use the indulgence example)… it’s not that I am suggesting rad trads do or should hold that monetary acts of should still be acceptable (simply because they used to be at one point in time). I used that as an example as to why going by sola tradition, doesn’t work. Just because a Mass was the norm canonically in one era of tradition, doesn’t mean that it WILL always be the norm (as in the example with indulgences etc.) hope that clarifies. Also I’m glad these examples aren’t common in your experience, and while rad trads do make a public mess on social media, these examples are ALL born out of conversations I have had with rad trads in real life (some who have been friends). God bless,
Here is AUTHENTIC Tradition....ROME ALONE has Authority to Edit and Change and even Demolish the Liturgy....🙄🙄
(MEDIATOR DEI
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON THE SACRED LITURGY
TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE)
"It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone🙄🙄 enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, 🙄🙄as also to modify those he judges to require modification.[50] Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship.[51] Private individuals, therefore, even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters, involving as they do the religious life of Christian society along with the exercise of the priesthood of Jesus Christ and worship of God; concerned as they are with the honor due to the Blessed Trinity, the Word Incarnate and His august mother and the other saints, and with the salvation of souls as well. For the same reason no private person has any authority to regulate external practices of this kind, which are intimately bound up with Church discipline and with the order, unity and concord of the Mystical Body and frequently even with the integrity of Catholic faith itself."
------ (POPE PIUS XII)
I am a Rad Trad, we are going back to the original Gospels that Jesus taught. Modernist is the work of the world not God.
Thank You Chris !!! and God Bless You for this to help people like me who has been torn apart trying to understand this cancer in our church ..... You explained it so well .... And Now I understand this very well ....
Infinite-Peace
"I ask the western grandmother to give us access to the sacred circle of spirits so they can be with us, so we can be united and stronger together." Pope Francis is so good at uniting us Catholics behind the westerners grandmother.
What in the world is the western grandmother?
@@user-zu2up7vz7y probably a demon
aaah, when did this guy say this? I'm pretty sure the latin mass isn't considered 'a beautiful celebration of our liturgy'
what he meant to say was that the latin mass is a _forbidden_ celebration of liturgy
I wouldn't necessarily say forbidden, not yet. It's more like they're trying to hide it, then get rid of it.
@@user-zu2up7vz7y there are definitely bishops who have explicitly forbidden it in their dioceses
rather than 'a beautiful celebration of our liturgy' the church's official stance is that it will 'widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church'
When I said not yet forbidden, I kinda meant like not yet forbidden by the whole Church, because while some still want it and have it, it's not really completely forbidden yet, but it's slowly disappearing. Hence, hiding then getting rid of it.
@@user-zu2up7vz7y yeah, I could see that - currently it's explicitly forbidden throughout the whole church, by the see, but permitted by exemption
@@joelabraham708 See, see...very close to completely disappearing from the public eye, and that's what they want. By the way, what website do you use to get up to date on what the Pope does? Because I really don't know very well how to navigate the vatican website. I need something reliable and easy to search.
"The irony, is that these self-professed traditionalists are simply adhering to one era of tradition, disregarding other developments. Sadly, this schismatic thinking is causing great division in the Church today, when our Lord desires unity in truth and spirit."' Seems like Cardinal Ratzinger shared this "schismatic thinking" when he said that union with the Eastern Orthodox should not require them to adopt later formulations of doctrine.
Thank you for this. You articulated something I’ve thought/felt for a long time but have trouble articulating myself. Keep singing and slinging truth!
I think I might need to change my mission statement haha “singing and slinging the truth” love it! Thanks for your kind words ☺️ God bless!
@@TruthSeeker-333 I don’t know if you’re talking to me or Chris but as a convert the group that had me most confused about the church and the truth was the rad trads. The permissive folks are the more tolerant and even if they’re in error (any of us could be in error) in my experience they’ve been more willing to offer grace to all, even if I disagreed with them. I love the church as she’s welcoming and universal while teaching truth. I came from a Christian tradition with no central leadership and having a pope is awesome and the leadership provided is most valuable. I don’t think it’s good to break that down as its value is far higher than any mistakes committed by any particular pope. The institution is of Christ and is permanent. And though I was suspicious of Pope Francis when I arrived at the church (mostly cause of the American media portrayal and rad trads) I’ve grown to love him. In retrospect, I was one of those on the margins he reached. Very pastoral approach. I noticed you have posted a lot in this video here. I pray you find contentedness and peace in Christ, TruthSeeker!
This is such a dumb video. Poorly reasoned and ill-defined.
First of all pratices are changeable, doctrines are not. No radtrad argues practices can't change.... however it's a doctrine of the Faith that practices which hand on the truth, i.e. the Tradition, can only develop in an organic fashion, NOT change in the sense of transformation . The Mass is the quintessential Tradition, it certainly can change, i.e. grow and develop, but it can not change becoming. something it wasn't. No radtrad would debate the validity of 1st Century liturgy. The argument some might make is that 1968 was by the admission of its authors "new" and thus not an organic development and thus not valid. This is a bad argument because even if correct that the new Mass is not a doctrinally sound organic development this would not invalidate the Mass according to the Traditional understanding of validity.
Second the example of indulgences is poor because simony has biblically and in the Tradition always been considered a crime (sin) by the Church. The practice of selling undulgences was therefore imprudent, borderline sinful, and its quite clear simony was never magisterially promoted. Any development in practice here is clearly in keeping with the Tradition.
"Sola scriptura"? Really protestants meant the individual interpreted scripture sola without Tradition. Radtrads insist on the opposite that Revelation, can't be understood "Sola" with the individual or heremenutical key of modernity but requires the context of the Tradition, the democracy of the dead, i.e. the Saints.
At the risk of being accused of a tu quoque fallicy, you can hardly accuse radtrads of promoting schism when the modernists at every turn deny the Traditions of the Faith. There can only be communion in Truth as Vatican II reminds us. 70% of Catholics don't believe in the real presence among various non-negotiable doctrines. If you are truly worried about schism look to the practices and promoters of this schism of unbelief!
The problem with radtrads is they fail in Charity and have an oversized audience because they resonate with the justifiable anger of Catholics who feel betrayed by the hierarchy at every level. And while, for the good of their souls, radtrads ought to be corrected the real problem with radtrads is the hierarchy is causing them by their own failures in charity.
Things can always be communicated more clearly. And though not in all, I do agree with many of your points. And just because I’m addressing an issue with one demographic of Catholics doesn’t diminish the errors and dangers of many others. God bless,
Here is AUTHENTIC Tradition....ROME ALONE has Authority to Edit and Change and even Demolish the Liturgy....🙄🙄🙄🙄
(MEDIATOR DEI
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON THE SACRED LITURGY
TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE)
"It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone🙄🙄 enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, 🙄🙄as also to modify those he judges to require modification.[50] Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship.[51] Private individuals, therefore, even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters, involving as they do the religious life of Christian society along with the exercise of the priesthood of Jesus Christ and worship of God; concerned as they are with the honor due to the Blessed Trinity, the Word Incarnate and His august mother and the other saints, and with the salvation of souls as well. For the same reason no private person has any authority to regulate external practices of this kind, which are intimately bound up with Church discipline and with the order, unity and concord of the Mystical Body and frequently even with the integrity of Catholic faith itself."
Keep your eyes on Christ. Follow His example in love and charity and stop blaming others for your relationship with God. In the end, you don't follow priests around that "say what you want to hear" you live and act for the gospel it is a tried-and-true way to live, and it keeps you from falling into the pit of human error that we all have to deal with from everyone. Pray for the church and its leaders and trust God to take care of the rest! He is able!
My suggestion for Chris is to avoid this topic possibly delete the video would be even better. Replace it with a video if he is so inclined to offer a prayer for unity especially on social issues to be united to protect the community from the onslaught of social justice warriors who want to force our children into an ideology that directly opposes our Christian faith.
I don't call them rad trads, more like mad trads. Jesus was radical, which isn't a bad thing. I however prefer to be a glad trad.
Yes!!
1:38 don’t be ashamed. You absolutely correct.
I was raised in the SSPX and all the points you are making are spot on. Thank God I have found my way back to the Catholic Church. One of the biggest problems with those "priests" in the SSPX is Pride and it doesn't go unnoticed that the sin of pride amongst the faithful that attend their schismatic Parishes is through the roof. It's also worth noting that for all the claims to the contrary they are riddled with sex abuse scandals. Something they have claimed for years they are free of because.... (well duh they say the Latin Mass!) Vat II and modernism is the reason they give for why there is abuse in the Church, their district superior at the time the Pennsylvania Grand Jury report came out , Fr Jurgen Wegner literally told all the faithful in the US that the reason for all this abuse in the Church is because of Vat II and modernism. He said that the reason sspx don't suffer with those same sins in because they aren't modernists.. Come find out they, Wegner inparticular is aware of and silencing many victims who have told him of their abuse by his priests. They handle it the same way the Church has in the past.... they lie about it, shame victims and shuffle their priests... They make the whole of the Catholic Faith around their preferred Liturgy. Through the grace of God I learned that they are not different than the Protestants in many ways... They want things their way, even to go so far as to very Excommunicated to have what they want. Yes I realize the excommunication have been lifted,, but they weren't lifted before Archbishop Lefebvre died excommunicated. I was brought up to believe that wasn't a big deal because he had the truth. Only after I was older and could do my own research did I realize how horrifying it is to die excommunicated. Yet the SSPX priests and faithful hail AML a saint.... They do all these things on the outside to make themselves look Catholic but none of that facade will ever change the fact that they have a schismatic attitude. If they don't want to listen to the Pope's instruction they don't have to. Because they know better than the Pope. Also, they have lacked faculties and still lack faculties for all but Confession and Matrimony since the year of mercy, although with marriage they are still supposed to have the Bishops permission, and let it be noted if they don't have the Bishops permission they marry the couple anyway.... so, many of their marriages still continue to be invalid. They have indoctrinated a ton of people into believing that it doesn't really matter if they don't have faculties all that matters once again is the specific liturgy of the Mass... It's all really horrible because of the huge amount of people they continue to lead astray. Much of my family included.
St. Athanasius was "excommunicated". There are such things as invalid excommunications. You can't excommunicate someone for fidelity to the faith, which is what happened to St. Athanasius and +Lefebvre.
That is crazy you go to both the TLM and the Novus Ordo but it does explain your attacks on traditionalists, aka catholics.
@@SperoinDeo Don't compare Lefebvre with Holy St. Athanasius....Lefebvre is clearly a HERETIC...You know why??
Here is AUTHENTIC Tradition....ROME ALONE has Authority to Edit and Change and even Demolish the Liturgy....🙄🙄
(MEDIATOR DEI
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON THE SACRED LITURGY
TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE)
"It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone🙄🙄 enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, 🙄🙄as also to modify those he judges to require modification.[50] Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship.[51] Private individuals, therefore, even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters, involving as they do the religious life of Christian society along with the exercise of the priesthood of Jesus Christ and worship of God; concerned as they are with the honor due to the Blessed Trinity, the Word Incarnate and His august mother and the other saints, and with the salvation of souls as well. For the same reason no private person has any authority to regulate external practices of this kind, which are intimately bound up with Church discipline and with the order, unity and concord of the Mystical Body and frequently even with the integrity of Catholic faith itself."
U are right on all ur points
@@SperoinDeo There is no evidence that Athanasius was ever excommunicated. And in fact there is evidence that the whole St Athanasius was excommunicated is a fabrication made up but the Arians, and Michael Davies along with the SSPX has run with it to justify their position. It is a true injustice to Pope Liberius who was the Pope during the Arian Heresy and who is a Saint of the Church right alongside St Athanasius. Do some more research before you spread lies. There is NEVER a justification for excommunication.
I concur with you Priska. The lack of charity among Rad Trads towards their brothers and sisters in Christ who attend the Ordinary Form is sad indeed. I’m glad you got out.
Most Rad Trads are PROTESTant converts to the Catholic Church. I'm just a CHILL Filipino 🇵🇭 cradle Catholic 26 year old guy.
What proof do you have that most rad trads are Protestant converts to the Catholic Church?
@@user-zu2up7vz7y Infact most Radtrads are Americans
@@user-zu2up7vz7y Yes you Americans 🇺🇲 are just way too extreme.
This guy implies that Dogma doesn't need to be followed universally.
Wrong, that’s not what he said. And this is exactly why he made this video.
Wasn't there a prophecy that suggests Francis is "the last pope"? Schism happens.
Why don't you have a dialogue and actually attempt to understand the "Rad Trad" positions? This video was a giant straw man against "rad trads". I'd be happy to dialogue with you about this position.
This is a great idea
Hi again Adrian - using “rad trad” is sort of like saying “Protestants believe [x y z]” when in reality Protestantism is a collection of various beliefs, so too would be similar for catholic rad trads. Hope that clarifies for you. God bless,
Please. Instead of condemning error this channel seems to condemn the faithful.
@@chrisbraymusic That is a good point. Rad Tradsnlile protestants can not agree in virtually anything. Especially since most of them reject the Magisterium of the Church.
@@chrisbraymusic I would agree that you seem to be applying the errors of a small minority to a larger group (as if all Protestants went to church on Saturday because 7th day Adventists do). I think if you want to really do some good, have Timothy Flanders on for some dialogue, he is a humble and sincere man. He may not call himself a traditionalist, but he would certainly not agree with your breakdown of the the new mass vs old mass- maybe you could have a good exchange. Peace.
Great points!!! I think you hit it spot on with the solo scriptura comparison. Thanks for this.
I appreciate it, thanks Mike!
How are you making this connection - Sola Scriptura? Explain, or elaborate. One thing TLM faithful are not is Sola Scriptura. In fact the opposite, they by and large hold to the infallible teachings of 2000 years and the role of the papacy. They do not submit to their private interpretation as so many Cafeteria Catholics do - which is the chief error of Protestantism.
If you’re a a Jew
I’d have to disagree.. Sola scriptura is the Protestant idea that the Bible is the sum of all valid Christian beliefs. “Rad trads” (myself included) don’t see Church documents as the exclusive source for knowledge about the Church, as Chris stated. Frankly this couldn’t be farther from the truth, and as a general rule “rad trads” are significantly more well read when it comes to theology and history of the Church.
Theologians would not agree. Modernists do agree.
RadTrads have no problem with organic doctrinal development. They do have a problem with heterodoxy. Very rarely do they argue that the validity of the Novus Ordo, but most will correctly call it a bastard rite yielding bad fruit.
You are creating a picture of a radtrad that doesn’t really exist. By today’s standards, St. John Chrysostom, St. Alphonsus, St Catherine of Siena, etc would be considered RadTrads. But not the way you just defined it. I haven’t met any of those folks and I’ve been going to the “schismatic” sspx for years. Have you ever actually talked, in person, to a couple of average sspx-ers and had a conversation on their positions?
Yes, all of these examples (and many more) come from real conversions as with people I know personally. Rad trads don’t necessarily believe ALL of these things. And I’m not sure how your example of the saints applies. SSPX, though has been labeled schismatic in previous years, is not what I’m specifically talking about in this video. God bless,
@@chrisbraymusic The schismatic label is one tossed around by Modernists (aka, heretics) and enemies of the church. Even Rome and the Pope has stated the sspx is Catholic and granted them faculties. To call them schismatic would be Protestant as it goes against the magisterium.
@@SperoinDeo oh ok so Cardinal Burke, a Canon Lawyer of the Church who also happens to say the Tridentine Mass is a modernist and heretic?? You're just proving Mr. Bray's points....
@@SperoinDeo also Pope Francis only granted them faculties for Confession and Marriage... and with Marriage they are still required to get the Bishops permission in order to validly marry the couple. In some cases they are still not meeting that requirement. The reason the Pope granted them faculties for those two Sacraments and those two alone was to have mercy on the faithful....for the sake of the faithful, not because the SSPX priests are such faithful sons of the Church.
@@AnaMT1985 Does ++Burke say they are in schism while Pope Francis gives them faculties for confession and Mass? That’s weird.
this type of attempt to turn The Church into a twee fashion statement won't work.
Excellent video. I subscribed.
Correction, maybe you're referring to the Sedevacantists.
RadTrads may not necessarily be the Sedes. But Sedes are RadTrads.
Perhaps it would be better if you would have a debate with one of the SSPX.
You're actually merging both the SSPX and the Sedevacantists as if they're one and the same.
In reality, they are not. In fact, the SSPX gives even fairer criticisms especially on how the Mass is conducted, whether in the Ordinary or the Extraordinary Form.
What fumes them is not the Ordinary Form really. What fumes them is the abuses and even elements of heresies that come from sermons in that Form. Clergymen are behaving more like clowns if not like heretics on the pulpits.
Yeah they are basically the same.... the difference is that the sspx are just closet sedes...
Just to clarify, I’m not talking about one particular group. Rad trad isn’t necessarily an official community but rather an erroneous mentality of private personal interpretation of church documents under the guise of tradition. One doesn’t need to be SSPX to be a rad trad (over vice versa). Hope that helps. God bless,
Yes, I get that... thank you for clarifying. I can only speak from my experience being raised attending the SSPX, but I see it in many people that don't necessarily attend the SSPX... I see it amongst those in the FSSP as well. Many if not most of these people I see this attitude in favor or have no problem with the SSPX though either. I am in a Diocesan Parish now where the TLM is celebrated as well as the NO Mass and the mentality and attitude is very different. Deo Gratias!
Rather than publicly smear all clergy, deal with offending ones individually with your bishop. And pray. Pray a lot, then let it go.
"Rad trad" insults Catholic Traditionalists because the SPLC coined it.
Here's why I believe the Novus Ordo is valid and illicit.
"Most Holy Father,
Having carefully examined, and presented for the scrutiny of others, the Novus Ordo Missae prepared by the experts of the Consilium ad exequendam Constitutionem de Sacra Liturgia, and after lengthy prayer and reflection, we feel it to be our bounden duty in the sight of God and towards Your Holiness, to put before you the following considerations:
1. The accompanying critical study of the Novus Ordo Missae, the work of a group of theologians, liturgists and pastors of souls, shows quite clearly in spite of its brevity that if we consider the innovations implied or taken for granted which may of course be evaluated in different ways, the Novus Ordo represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent. The "canons" of the rite definitively fixed at that time provided an insurmountable barrier to any heresy directed against the integrity of the Mystery.
2. The pastoral reasons adduced to support such a grave break with tradition, even if such reasons could be regarded as holding good in the face of doctrinal considerations, do not seem to us sufficient. The innovations in the Novus Ordo and the fact that all that is of perennial value finds only a minor place, if it subsists at all, could well turn into a certainty the suspicions already prevalent, alas, in many circles, that truths which have always been believed by the Christian people, can be changed or ignored without infidelity to that sacred deposit of doctrine to which the Catholic faith is bound for ever. Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful who are already showing signs of restiveness and of an indubitable lessening of faith.
Amongst the best of the clergy the practical result is an agonising crisis of conscience of which innumerable instances come tour notice daily.
3. We are certain that these considerations, which can only reach Your Holiness by the living voice of both shepherds and flock, cannot but find an echo in Your paternal heart, always so profoundly solicitous for the spiritual needs of the children of the Church. It has always been the case that when a law meant for the good of subjects proves to be on the contrary harmful, those subjects have the right, nay the duty of asking with filial trust for the abrogation of that law.
Therefore we most earnestly beseech Your Holiness, at a time of such painful divisions and ever-increasing perils for the purity of the Faith and the unity of the church, lamented by You our common Father, not to deprive us of the possibility of continuing to have recourse to the fruitful integrity of that Missale Romanum of St. Pius V, so highly praised by Your Holiness and so deeply loved and venerated by the whole Catholic world."
lms.org.uk/ottaviani-intervention
What tells you that "rad trads" probably would want parts of St. Justin Martyr's liturgy? Have you heard of organic liturgical development Please don't generalize hastily.
Merely liking the Traditional Latin Mass doesn't make anyone a traditionalist Catholic. A Modernist heretic could attend it only because he likes Latin along with "smells and bells."
If you attend the Novus Ordo, which I won't do, there may be times when you shouldn't do that. For example, you shouldn't attend a so-called gay wedding. St. Thomas Aquinas says that a priest could consecrate all the bread in a bakery. But that doesn't mean it's alright to go to a Mass where he does that.
The trad priests like wearing dresses that look like their grandmother's table cloth. I don't know why, but it seems........odd.
I like glad trads. Rad trads and mad trads; not so much.
Bingo!
If it's a huge problem in the Church there must be a huge number of Rad Trads. Is there any indication that Rad Trads are anything but a very small number of people in the Church? Mr Bray doesn't supply any evidence about numbers. What Mr Bray does is make lots of accusations but he does not refer to anything that any actual "Rad Trad" has ever said or written. Not a single person Mr Bray considers to be a "Rad Trad" is quoted. So how do we know that anything he says has any connection with reality?
The real problem is we have a heretic on the Throne of Peter.
Without The Church Fully Herself, even the rocks would oppose you.
Father Altman is a rad trad-
I am not catholic. This was informational.
No it wasn't. This was misinformation.
If the hierachy would stop supporting moques and support those who wish to adhere to traditional form, that would be non-divisive.
Instead they are trying to stomp on them. And this one is slandering those who love amd cherish tbe traditional high form are [rewinds video] "extremist." I'd rather talk to them than this individual. The Catholic Eccesia has real issues to discuss, instead of slandering it's members.
The Catholic Church has never approved the selling of indulgences.
The Synod that each & every person is invited to share a thought on could not be more timely.
Chris raises thought provoking observations on hot button topics that indeed do challenge a person to reflect on their individual attitude words and behaviors. How are your a witnesses of the Gospel? Can you be better at this? Are not all followers of Christ are called to Love & in respectful dialogue seek a pathways of Peace. God sees our hearts. Can we see the heart of Jesus in another & respond in Love? Change is difficult for many, it take some getting use to.
There is a huge difference between discussing observations and judging. Dialogue is seeking a unity of understanding
Many are not use to thinking for themselves and fearful of responding to situations without looking at what another might do first. Leaders of faith do not judge. When they respond in Prayer, act in service in "small ways, with great love." this leads to Peace.
Getting use to Different in following the way of Christ has always been the challenge. It got Martyrs killed. Can examine ourselves? Like exploring or learning how the internet works? Going to confession face to face & see God love through the eyes of the priest.
Just look at how many forms & styles of music to express Praise & gratitude to our Lord. Our Magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit. There is so much Love our World Urgently needs.
Can Christ Count on You?
Thanks Sharon ♥️
Anyone who describes themselves as traditional isn't catholic but protestant.
"Indeed, the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries, nor innovators: they are traditionalists."---Pope St. Pius X enyclical "Our Apostolic Mandate."
Chris, you seem sincere, but your thesis fails really seriously to understand traditional Catholics... even the "radical ones". I regularly attend an FSSP Mass, and I don't know anyone there who maintains that (a) the Novus Ordo is invalid, (b) the Mass recounted by St. Justin Martyr was invalid, or (3) the Mass celebrated by St. Paul was invalid.
What they do believe is that the Missale Romanum, the Usus Antiquitor, is the most fitting expression of the Roman Rite because of the way it puts into action what we, as Catholics, believe about God and the mystery of our Redemption, especially the nature of the sacrifice of the Mass and the Real Presence of our Lord, Jesus Christ, in the Holy Eucharist.
The Missale Romanum of 1570, or 1955, or 1962 are all the result of a continuous development of pious expression and worship of God. One can trace it's development, very clearly, through the ages, from Sts. Justin Martyr and Hippolytus to St. Pius V.
The problem, as many traditionalists see it, is that there is a certain contingency that wants to throw out or suppress what we've received -- something far larger and more ancient than any of us -- for something else. But if the Lord promised that the Spirit would lead the Church into all truth, then we should not approach her traditions with skepticism. Recall the rule: lex orandi, lex credendi. The Western saints, from the beginning of the first millennium onward, took in the faith and were nourished in it by something greatly resemblant of the Latin Mass we know today.
The Spirit, in His divine wisdom, elected to transmit the faith in the West via the traditional Mass for a very long time. Innovations and reforms, therefore, ought to be introduced only when necessary (as Sacrosanctum Concilium states), and then carefully, lest we be caught questioning the Spirit's wisdom or failing to appreciate His gifts. It is not so easy, I think, to separate the content of the faith from it's mode of transmission. We ought, accordingly, to venerate the traditional Mass for it's sublime expression of the Catholic and Apostolic faith. In precisely the way that doctrine is further defined and specified and, thus, perfected over time, so too ought we expect the liturgy to develop, such that it grows gradually and continuously toward perfection.
If someone were to come along and say that the dogmatic canons of the Council of Trent were good for the 16th century, but out-dated and not evolved enough for modern man, and that we should return to a simpler and less exclusive expression of our faith, we would rightly look at him as though he were out of his mind. We ought to recognize a similar perfection in the traditional liturgical expression of the faith as we do in the developed doctrine.
I think you need to talk to more traditionalists to truly understand what you are talking about. You are missing their points, albeit they may be different than your own.
Uffff i guess 😅
The only Rad Trads I know are on social media. I never met one in person. At our rather large TLM church we do not disrespect the Pope. We don't even talk about NO mass. So I tired of this Rad Trad label. The Rad Trads you are speaking are just trying to get views on UA-cam. I noticed you always speaking highly of NO and find fault with us. So you Rad NO and Rad Trads are all in the same radical boat. Enjoy your income from your UA-cam channel.
SAYS THE MODERNIST! LOL
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen..............Nailed it
Brace for impact in 3, 2, 1...
Good video Chris. Catholics should be discerning and not be led astray by certain bloggers & UA-camrs who are leading Catholics into schism (SSPX, etc)
Amen 🙏
@@chrisbraymusic Maybe it could possibly be that if Francis had answered the #Dubia instead of wilfully ignoring it, we wouldn't be in this position. #teamtrad
Were the saints and Catholics of 2000 years in schism? If not, why am I in schism if I hold what was passed down through the ages by the Church and Popes. UA-cam should not be anyones source of orthodox information. Read any work by the Fathers, Doctors and Theologians, any orthodox work before the council. You will see that the post-conciliar Church has embraced the errors it had always and everywhere condemned. What are the faithful to think? Do we discard of infallible teachings because the Church now refuses to condemn errors? What about my faith, and my family’s? SSPX is not in schism btw. Why so much hatred by fellow Catholics towards those that want to keep the flame burning rather than celebrate in the ashes?
Sounds like you're basically giving your own personal opinion of rad trads.
Rad-Trads and sedevacantists are 02 different things. This video is about the second group.
I'm not feeling much humility from the radtrads or yourself. It all comes across as sounding brass, clanging cymbals. Too much impassioned noise.
His problem with rad trads is that they uphold immutable Catholic dogma.
I've found that many neo-con Catholics agree with 99% of Catholic teachings......99%.....There's always something they secretly want changed, usually concerning sexual morality. So while they recognize the bad in the modern Church, and hate the abuses, they still hold out hope the modern Church will change that one teaching or issue they'd rather not believe or be faithful to (Contraception, gay marriage, limited abortion exceptions, etc.). Tradition to them crushes that hope and represents absolute fidelity to Church teachings throughout the ages. What they want is Evangelical Protestantism. Generally faithful, but still open to changing a core belief.
You mean like preaching protestant heresies that Mass in communion with pope is evil, denying sanctity of the Church, gnostic denial of Church universal nature? Rad trads have a completely heretical eclesiology.
There was so many lies in less than 1 minute video that i just dropped.
Why don’t they just convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.
I was raised hard-core rad trad....the abuse and psychological damage inflicted is huge. I want nothing to do with God or religion at all, and never will. I'm 69 years old, I still suffer from the effects of this horrible practice. Thanks for your video.
one particular era....? 🤣
This is rambling nonsense.
The problem is this video.
The ignorance and obvious ill will of this guy is utterly embarrassing to watch.
No traditionalist or sedevacantist would claim that the primitive masses were invalid. That's clown style of straw man arguing.
This guy is dishonest or he simply doesn't have a clue about the modernist crisis in the Church in which case it would be prudent if he didn't speak at all on the topic.
The closest he's coming to stating anything related to truth is basically the fact that he's condemning Pope Pius XII for condemning the "antiquarianism" of the modernists just prior to Vatican II.
Mediator Dei:
"....But it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible device. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer's body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings; and lastly were he to disdain and reject polyphonic music or singing in parts, even where it conforms to regulations issued by the Holy See.
63. Clearly no sincere Catholic can refuse to accept the formulation of Christian doctrine more recently elaborated and proclaimed as dogmas by the Church, under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit with abundant fruit for souls, because it pleases him to hark back to the old formulas. No more can any Catholic in his right senses repudiate existing legislation of the Church to revert to prescriptions based on the earliest sources of canon law. Just as obviously unwise and mistaken is the zeal of one who in matters liturgical would go back to the rites and usage of antiquity, discarding the new patterns introduced by disposition of divine Providence to meet the changes of circumstances and situation.
64. This way of acting bids fair to revive the exaggerated and senseless antiquarianism to which the illegal Council of Pistoia gave rise. It likewise attempts to reinstate a series of errors which were responsible for the calling of that meeting as well as for those resulting from it, with grievous harm to souls, and which the Church, the ever watchful guardian of the "deposit of faith" committed to her charge by her divine Founder, had every right and reason to condemn.[53] For perverse designs and ventures of this sort tend to paralyze and weaken that process of sanctification by which the sacred liturgy directs the sons of adoption to their Heavenly Father of their souls' salvation."
The Council of Pistoia (condemned at Trent) presented ideas for the liturgy that are essentially the average Novus Ordo mass "celebrated" in most conservative parishes.
Trent:
CANON VII.-If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema.
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or, that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vulgar tongue only; or, that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice, for that it is contrary to the institution of Christ; let him be anathema.
You present no sources, examples, or proof of any kind to back up what you say. Before you made this video, did you interview a whole bunch of rad trads, or did you just talk to somebody who didn't know anything about anything that's going on?
You are so confused bro.This is laughable.
This video is very disingenuous, stop strawmanning and actually address the arguments.
The point of the video actually is to stop arguing and address unity. Jesus prayed for unity, not debate winners or perfect masses.
But the real question is this: Is Jesus a human person?
the group total of all of the people who believe in this “sola scripture” version of Church tradition is so negligible as to be inconsequential. There are traditionalists who have legitimate concerns about the direction the Vatican is taking, and yes we are calling for radical change away from the modernization of the Church, but the key difference is that we are NOT schismatic. We see extremely concerning changes that are to the detriment of the Church, and we want to save the Church from heading in this direction. This is why you keep getting comments saying this video is based on a straw man. You have created a narrative about a very large group of Catholics that does not in any way apply to their beliefs and you have exclusively used that argument to discredit them without examining any of the concerns they actually have with the church.
essentially, you have carelessly miscategorized a group that does exist, defining them by a belief that almost none of them hold, and then attempted to slander them as schismatic based on this belief that again, none of them hold.
Is that your job as a Christian? Tell me where in the scriptures did you find this or in church teaching that we are to closely guard and hold accountable all that the Vatican does? Please I am being sincere now!
@@chattingwithu Pope Pius V:
"By this our decree, to be valid IN PERPETUITY, we determine and order that NEVER shall anything be added to, omitted from, or changed in this Missal. . .At no time in the future can a priest, whether secular or order priest, ever be forced to use any other way of saying Mass. And so as to preclude once and for all any scruples of conscience and fear of ecclesiastical penalties and censures, we herewith declare that it is in virtue of our Apostolic Authority that we decree and determine that this our present order and decree is to last in PERPETUITY and can never be legally revoked or amended at a future date. . . And if anyone would nevertheless ever dare to attempt any action contrary to this order of ours, given for all times, let him know that he has incurred the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul." (1570)
this decree was to protect the mass from protestant reformers who would wish to change it. the new mass was concocted in part to attract those same protestants to the catholic mass by making it more protestant, basically exactly was Pope Pius V was warning against.
@@rol2377 Ok I understand what he has said but this has to do with form and not faith and morals do you understand? The last supper was the first Mass - hardly the same as any TLM or NO Mass. This does not mean that it has to forever be done like this. This can change, obviously, so better to choose to love God with your whole heart and soul and mind and love others and pray for your parish and for the church then to cause division- one day when you meet God I doubt that you will discuss what parish you were in but did you LOVE HIM and others. Thanks for responding!! God bless you!
The Catholic Church has never approved the selling of indulgences.
The Catholic Church has never approved the selling of indulgences.