The books actually tell us twice that the No Magic Outside School law doesn't apply to young children, and why. In DH Young Snape tells Lily “We’re all right. We haven’t got wands yet. They let you off when you’re a kid and you can’t help it. But once you’re eleven,” he nodded importantly, “and they start training you, then you’ve got to go careful.”. In HBP Dumbledore explains to Tom Riddle that “At Hogwarts,” Dumbledore went on, “we teach you not only to use magic, but to control it. You have - inadvertently, I am sure - been using your powers in a way that is neither taught nor tolerated at our school. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to allow your magic to run away with you. But you should know that Hogwarts can expel students, and the Ministry of Magic - yes, there is a Ministry - will punish lawbreakers still more severely. All new wizards must accept that, in entering our world, they abide by our laws.” Put together, we understand that young witches and wizards can't control their magic and are therefore not punished, but when they get old enough and start learning to control their magic they're expected to control themselves and will be punished if they don't.
Where is the young cutoff like i Get if a super young kid accidentally like blew up thier aunt would be fine but i feel it would Get more blurry around 10-14
Learning to control your magic would have been a very good opportunity for plausible subject, arguably a lot more plausible than some existing ones. But while Dumbledore claims to Riddle that they teach this, we never hear anything about it, really. I'd imagine in to be something like Harry's occlumency lessons. That would've fit really well into the stories and could've been another thing Neville is (accidentally?) good at.
"It all depends on what the Ministry thinks of Harry at the time." Exactly the point of the inconsistencies, that's how the Ministry works. It also has so many loopholes for those from magical families because they are the ones who make the laws and give the Ministry the most money.
I agree and yet why not bring up in trial (for underage magic) other spells done at privet drive days later like the hover charm . Dursley neighbours not wake to noise of flying car and take photos ?
I was going to say something like this. Technically our government has the CAPABILITY of reading our texts or bugging our phones... But they don't unless they have a reason too (like preventing terrorism). Just because the Ministry could trace magic near underage doesn't mean they were actually regularly monitoring and enforcing it.
Yea in book 3 the ministry gives harry a break because they think Sirius is after him and what are they gonna tell him? Under no circumstances should you do underage magic even if your about to be killed and need to defend yourself. They know this is a real possibility and dont want to discourage harry from using magic to defend himself by punishing him for blowing up his aunt.
The worst part about the trace: the ministry is using the trace to find out about underaged magic, but does not use the trace charm to identify the use of the unforgivable curses....
they ain't america. And proud of it... no actually it is reverse, the american magical government are very, very proud about how serious they are about security. there you need permission and licenses for each individual spell you intend to use in your everyday life. Otherwise its fines, and at worst having yourself be dissolved in a pool of soul destroying liquid or somesuch, very nice and sensible the magical world is. almost like its satire.
I can see the possibility that spells like Lumos are pretty much ignored for this purpose. I'd assume they trigger it, but when it's just something like Lumos, they don't do anything. Afterall, even for the purpose of keeping magic secret, it'll just look like a little toy flashlight.
It might be that if it can be explained easily via a non magic answer you only get a warning and it just didn't arrive before harry left due to similar cases happening a lot
The scene with Dobby using the hover charm to drop the cake bothers me, for a different reason. Dobby is not a human wizard. They mention that House Elf magic is different from human magic. Are they saying that the Trace cannot differentiate between a human and elf casting magic?
Clearly they are, but that's silly. Imagine if Draco was alone at home with Dobby as a child, and Dobby was doing his usual chores and then Draco gets into trouble with the ministry for that. The only way out of that plot hole I can think of is that House Elves can do magic in a way that mimics that of witches and wizards if they choose to, and on that day Dobby chose to in order to get Harry expelled so he'd be safely away from Hogwarts. Thoughts?
@@limiv5272 well the ministry would know of the presence of a house elf at the Malfoys and could account for that. Theres no account for a house elf at the Dursleys tho
@@ThisIsAbstract So you think all elf owners declare it to the ministry? What if an elf accompanies an underage member of the family outside the house and does magic?
@@limiv5272 sure why not? House elfs mostly serve "old Wizarding families" and stay in the same households for generation after generation, I dont think it's unfathomable that the ministry would know who has house elves. Harry inherits Kreacher as part of the property deed for Grimmauld Place so there's evidence of legal transfer of ownership going through the ministry. Not sure elves are often tasked with babysitting or accompanying minors. I guess Crouch sort of did with his adult son and Winky but that's almost more hostage situation. Either way they'd still know the family had house elves and since pure blood wizards are practically immune to trace punishments I see no reason why not.
@@ThisIsAbstract Yeah, your explanation works, and I guess it tracks for old pureblood families to be able to get away with their kid doing magic by blaming the slave.
Also if they can detect the hover charm from a house elf's magic and they can definitely detect apparition as evidenced later in Deathly Hallows, then why couldn't they detect Dobby aparating in and out of the house? So their sequence of events should have been apparition into the house. Shortly thereafter hover charm. Immediately after that someone aparating out of the house... And yet they just assumed it was Harry who cast the hover charm? Also when this could have been easily disproven via checking his wand... -Daven
oh, that kind of gets explained. House Elf magic to get around is different than normal apparating. That's how Dobby is able to get to Harry in Deathly Hallows at Malfoy Manor.
@@storyperry2230 That would normally be true and would be more consistent EXCEPT then they wouldn't have detected the hover charm. The fact that they did means Elf magic triggers it too. -Daven
@@TodayIFoundOut I didn't expect this. Another channel I watch (well, mostly the other channels also hosted by Simon) commenting on a Super Carlin Bros video. 🤯
Maybe the trace is a relatively recent measure, explaining Tom Riddle's unpunished early forays into evildom. And also the presence of an adult wizard could disable the trace which explains Hagrid, Tonks and Dumbledore doing magic unnoticed at the Dursleys
Tom Riddle blamed it on his uncle, who had previously been arrested and convicted in Azkaban, so I guess it never crossed the Ministry's collective mind that another wizard could've done the deed, even less an underage one.
@hga8418 but Tom Riddle murdering his parents wasn't noticed by the trace. They were found by the police. He modified his uncle's memory, and when the wizard wizarding authorities were finally alerted to the murder, they didn't investigate after his uncle confessed. Had nothing to do with the trace
Maybe they put a seven year charm on kids date of birth, to activate the trace? Just like when they put a taboo on Voldemort’s name? Since you can put a jinx or a charm on a name why can’t you do the same for a date of birth?
I like to think maybe it’s not the boats where they get the trace but at the sorting. We know from chamber and half blood that students can technically miss the modes of transport to the castle proper but any student who attends Hogwarts has to be sorted and that’s how applying the trace can account for any late students
I smell a lot of sh*t. it could be that petunia complains about potions, herbology, runes and similar things. those wouldn't alert the ministry since no magic is cast. that being said. I maintain my initial claim. that Lily was able to freely practice magic at a muggle home is a pile of sh*t.
Petunia said Lily was turning teacups into rats. I think that's advanced transfiguration, so it's possible this happened when Lily was in 6/7th year and already of age.
For the life of me, I could never understand in the Prisoner of Azkaban (Movie) Harry was able to perform so many Lumos spells and not a peak but Dobby does in the same area as Harry and there is a whole warning there.
@@notatallboi2735 I still think 3 is great as a movie but it does break a lot of rules from the book: It's an amazing movie but not an amazing adaptation if that makes sense
So, on the subject of the times Harry almost got expelled, that raises a question. What *does* happen if you get expelled from Hogwarts? Do you just have to find another school, or are you blacklisted from all Wizarding schools? Are you just forbidden from using magic (which wouldn't work, right?) Are you obliviated (I know Hagrid and Newt weren't, but perhaps they were a unique case)? If a younger student is expelled, wouldn't that potentially make an Obscurus and cause more problems?
from pure statistics, 100% of the students who were expelled from Hogwarts were allowed by Dumbledore to continue to stay in the Hogwarts grounds as gamekeeper!
@@JuanMataCFC Newt Scamander was also expelled, though if Dumbledore had been headmaster (or at least had more pull at the school) at the time, he likely would have been allowed to stay on as the care of magical creatures teacher's aid or something so, while not an accurate statement, it's also not completely inaccurate either.
Well they snap your wand. They did that to Hagrid and tried to do that to Harry. Hagrid was also no longer supposed to practice magic, even when he was of age. The question of enrolling in a different school is interesting. I suppose it would depend on the school. The issue of becoming an obscurial is interesting. I suppose it all depends on the specific of how they're created.
I always assumed each country had their own portal teleporting them to the Hogwarts train. Like the train not even being in London we just see them using the London portal.
Now that is a brilliant concept. I'm actually surprised SuperCarlin Brothers haven't come up with it because they are brainstormers, and should have. Fifty points to whichever house you're in. The thing is, JK Rowling is herself from Scotland, and Hogwarts is in Scotland, so you would think that if your idea were the correct one, and not just a clever way of filling an obvious inconsistency, she would have explained this by now. It's a simple explanation for her to put forward, and closes the inconsistency. If you ever tell her on Pottermore, make sure you get full credit for the idea. Save the date of your OP, because she will claim she planned that idea out all along, and you will be sitting there saying, "but I..." lol. I think your comment deserves way more likes than it received. They need to do a video on your theory. If they haven't. I slowly get through their stuff.
That does make sense. But what about the other schools? Though I suppose each school could have an area around them that determine whether you hogwarts or another school.
@@BigFatTrekkie each country obviously doesn’t have its own school or else you wouldn’t have Irish and Scottish kids going to the school as English kids. The schools are probably further apart like UK, Russia, Central Europe, North America
I’ve always assumed that the trace starts when you start school (11) and automatically breaks when you become an adult (17). It’s connected to the place and the wand, rather than the person. The trace is connected to where the school children live, so if someone uses a bunch of magic in Hermione’s house that sets off the trace, but if someone uses magic in Draco’s house it doesn’t really matter because who knows if it’s Draco or Narcissa… And if the wand registered to Harry uses magic in the middle of Surrey it sets off the trace, but if Blaise Zabini’s wand is used “it’s probably just his mother using it”. (The Ministry is not fair, obvious or in any way logical. Muggleborns and pure bloods doesn’t have the same opportunities.) I’ve never considered the Tom Riddle parts however, but if everything he did was either at school, in a wizarding home or afte he turned 17 that might explain how the trace didn’t get set off? And the fact that the Weasleys aren’t allowed to use magic at home until they’re grown probably has more to do with their mother than the actual trace…
My thought on it is the trace is used as an actual punishment rarely. Since people will need to practice at some point, most magics would probably be forgiven. Note that with the cake, he was firmly warned, but that was while the Dursleys had quests not in the family. But with blowing up his aunt, she was in the family, and Harry didn't even get warned that time. Even with Dudley, granted it was more the location in this instance for arguments sake, Fudge was literally just looking for a reason to discredit Dumbledore and Harry. And, with the exception of herminone, most young wizards would probably just ignore the rule at points. And with Tom/Voldmort, I think it has to do with no one connecting him to being there. Yes, he does have the name Tom Riddle, but to most people, they were unaware he even knew his heiratage, only that he wasn't pure blood. And he most likely had a few spells to cover his presence, thus making it harder to find out he was there. Granted, there is no way to apply this without breaking some part of it if Voldemort killed him before he was 17, which he probably was
not the wand. they state in HBP that teenage voldy used magic in the gaunts house. he stupefyd morfin with his wand(voldy's) then then stole morfin's wand to murder the riddles so they could see the last spell used with morfins wand was the killing curse. voldy then modified morfins memory with his own wand(voldy's) to cover his tracks. the magic was also not detected by the MoM but the suspicious death's of the muggles was brought to their attention.
I was always under the impression that the presence of an adult witch or wizard caused the Trace to fail. As it explains all the situations where it did and don't happen, in Chamber, Dobby wouldn't count as an adult wizard and in Order, Mundungus had left his post so the only wizard in the area was Harry. It also explains the situation with Hagrid, with the Weasley's in year 4, the order collecting Harry and Dumbledore meeting Harry, as all involved Adult Witches and Wizards. And in the case of the Riddles, Morfin was an adult wizard and so it wouldn't have worked if he was near
I don't think your theory works. Morphin was unconscious in his hovel while Voldemort was committing murder across the valley, and if the trace doesn't alert the ministry when there's an adult around them the Order could've transported Harry using Side-Along-Apparition in DH.
In the Deathly Hallows, it's stated that the Ministry would be able to tell (because of the Trace) if they moved Harry using magical transportation e.g. apparition, so the presence of an adult probably doesn't cause the Trace to fail as such, but in the case of the Trace being triggered with an adult witch or wizard present, it might just get automatically written off. As for Voldemort killing the Riddles, he could have used an aging potion - with how vague the Trace is, I wouldn't be surprised if it just applies to physical age and can be fooled by various means.
@@thebuddercweeper its less "automaticly written off" and more "its impossible for us to tell WHO cast it so we just gonna tactfully ignore it unless we have speciifc prove it was the underaged wizard
Thank you for talking about this. Everyone I talk to about this basically just say "it's just a book, they just didn't put it in there" like yeah I get they need to move the plot but these are the books of a century! It's good to analyze the books you love.
for someone who used a fountain pen in all of school, on your video snippet, you were holding the pen wrong... the feather was rotated way to much towards the left. The split in the feather has to point upwards, that way the pressure that releases the ink functions and its not so scratchy...just rotate at least a quarter turn to the right...lol
It’s a fountain pen, not a feather quill… there are no feathers. But you’re right, he’s using the pen incorrectly. He’s writing with the top on the nib upside down. The nib, (metal side) is the top and the feed (black plastic part) is the bottom. Write shiny side up :)
@@gophersgirl That’s interesting, feder or feather. Füllfederhalter. Learn something new everyday, thank you for sharing, I hadn’t heard them referred as feather before :)
@@matthewscott3689 and ps the best part, german schools all mandate students learn long hand script with fountain pens, ball point pens were never allowed in my school-at least that how it was in the 90s... and Füller is the short version vs Füllfederhalter (not all words have 15+ letters, lol)
I have a good question.. The magical protection over the Dursleys house was only to remain active until he either turned 17 OR stopped calling it his home. When harry left with his belongings in the beginning of Prisoner, wasn’t he technically ditching his home with intent of finding a new place? Wouldn’t the protection on the house end there? Or did it do a takesies backsies when he went home at the end of the school year? I know he has protection himself but I remember reading something about the house too.
I think the stipulation of the no longer call that place home just means that the benefactor fully intends to never return to the house; I believe that this is why Dumbeldore hastily wrote to Petunia in the beginning of Order of the Phoenix, because they fully intended to kick him out until Dumbeldore reminded her of the protection that she was keeping alive by allowing him to live there. Don't forget it was Dumbeldore that invoked the blood bond by leaving Harry with Petunia so I have theory that because it was Marge who he was truly trying to get away from and not Petunia that's why it didn't break.
I think it has to be a mutual thing. In deathly hallows mad eye confirms with Harry that the Dursley's and him are separating that night with the full understanding that they will never live together again. In Prisonor of Azkaban Harry just leaves. It wasn't mutual, Vernon even tells Harry to come back and fix Marge but he refuses. In order of the phoenix when Vernon tries to kick Harry out he's not expecting it and it wasn't mutual either.
In the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban (movie, I don't think it was in the book), we start with Harry practicing Lumos Maxima. He doesn't seem worried about underage wizardry in this case. Are perhaps some allowances for practicing innocuous spells at home?
yes it was only in the movie and only in the pre scene of the actual movie. so its canon value is litterly negative, which is worse then the canon value of the cursed child.
You’re correct. Harry WAS doing Hogwarts Homework but he wasn’t casting spells (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong cause I haven’t read the books for some time)
Isn't the other issue that children perform magic by accident, does that mean that everytime a child just does something by accident the ministry is informed and has to send people out, to find out a kid has just moved a mug. Edit : Or what about if they have a sibling of which one is school age and the other is not. When the young one does magic the ministry would pick up that magic had been performed in the 11 - 17 year olds home.
@@JonathanMandrake Exactly, until they start schooling and get their wands magic use by kids doesn't exactly count. Additionally in a regular wizarding house (such as the Weasley household, Malfoy household, Snape household, etc) they can't tell who cast the magic so technically students can practice/use magic and is reliant on the parents enforcing the rules about not using magic.
@@JonathanMandrake what about if they have a sibling of which one is school age and the other is not. When the young one does magic the ministry would pick up that magic had been performed in the 11 - 17 year olds home.
7:40 Here’s what _actually_ happened: “Oh, my dear boy, we’re not going to punish you for a little thing like that!“ cried Fudge, waving his crumpet impatiently. “It was an accident! We don’t send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!“ But this didn’t tally at all with Harry’s past dealings with the Ministry of Magic. “Last year, I got an official warning just because a house-elf smashed a pudding in my uncle’s house!” he told Fudge, frowning. “The Ministry of Magic said I’d be expelled from Hogwarts if there was any more magic there!” Unless Harry’s eyes were deceiving him, Fudge was suddenly looking awkward. “Circumstances change, Harry.… We have to take into account…in the present climate…Surely you don’t _want_ to be expelled?“ (Prisoner of Azkaban, Actual Publication, Page 45) All things considered, pretty good impression, Ben. Ten points to Slytherin!
Ok so it's been a long while since I've read the books or seen the movies, so feel free to correct me if this theory has any flaws, but the only circumstance that I can think of going on in book 3 that might have an effect on the Ministry's decision is... Sirius escaping? In which case, it would make perfect sense why the Ministry would be willing to look the other way just this once-- given that they weren't aware that Sirius was innocent, the logic was probably that it'd be better for Harry to be at school, where he could be (or at least should be) protected, versus out in the world with a dangerous convict on the loose.
@@0XBlondie96X0 this is exactly why and I thought it was super obvious. For the first time in a century someone escapes from Azkaban, the Ministry has some better to do than to follow up on Trace calls and keeping all children safe at Hogwarts is much more important
@@0XBlondie96X0 dont forget they was afraid sirus was going to attempt to murder harry. aslo in book 5 during the official hearing about harrys use of magic to defend himself from the dementors its mentioned that the minestry was understanding about what happend there. on the thing that happend during book two nothing was provoking harry, no one was in danger or anything like that. but the second time was different.
7:21 Even at St. Mungo’s there were children brought in who had accidentally casted spells. Plus, before Harry even went to Hogwarts he made the glass of an enclosure disappear.
15:00 i think the trace very much could be a natural thing that the ministry is just tapping into, and its not that nature is accounting for the laws but that the laws are based on the nature.
Personally, I never thought of the trace as something that gets put onto them, but more of a monitoring system that sees something inherently in all young witch/wizards.
I like the idea of the trace being put on them when they first go to school but it creates another issue. If it starts when you start school why does it break at 17 instead of at graduation? It seems like it would be so much easier to have it end on a set day for everyone in that class and after your education was complete. As a bonus if it only broke when you graduate anyone expelled would stay under the trace so they could make sure they weren’t using magic like Hagrid did.
It’s like drinking. Here in my country people can buy alcohol at the age of 18, it doesn’t matter if you’re at school or not. It wouldn’t make sense if the Ministry of Magic made all students wait until their 7th year of school was over to allow teenagers to perform magic.
@@TiMoThY211991 I didn't think of this because of the differences from country to country and it is a very good point. I have seen it argued that 6th and 7th years aren't required and you could leave after NEWTs if you wanted but i have never seen a definite answer on that. So let me change that to when they complete NEWTs. I want to stick to the education requirement because it feels more accurate than an age. You wouldn't want a lawyer that didn't pass the bar representing you in court would you? Or a paramedic that isn't certified in CPR yet?
@@indiansfan444444 It's more like drinking, it's not a qualification, it's something everyone has the right to do so long as they are old enough. There is the exception of if someone is expelled, and I still can't quite figure out why they would have the right to snap your wand in half.
I think the only part that truly makes no sense is in book 5. If the theory about the lake is true then all the Gaunt stuff and Harry's early magic are explained. And you could argue that when Arthur and Dumbledore visit Privet Drive they have permission from the Ministry to do magic. Fudge lets Harry off the hook in book 3 either because it was an accident or because he was relieved that Sirius hadn't killed him before the ministry found him. In book 5 though, the ministry is ACTIVELY LOOKING for a reason to expell Harry and literally like 3 days after punishing him for fighting dementors, they should've detected lumos, Tonks's cleaning spells, and Moody's disillusionment charm. You can't tell me the Order of the Phoenix that shouldn't even exist has permission from the ministry.
It's not a crime for adult witches and wizards to visit Harry or to do magic around him when not seen by muggles [Not even the Duresleys were around to see anything]. If Fudge had tried to get Harry expelled again, he'd have his own Aurors testifying that it was them who performed the spells and offering up their wands for examination. He'd never get a conviction. I think Fudge was informed they were going to be there, knew it was a lost cause and therefore let it go.
Why even bother with the dementors? Umbridge could have just gone down there without telling anyone, hexed Dudley a couple of times when nobody is watching, then claimed it must have been Harry because who else would be in Little Whinging hexing Dudley. The scheme with the dementors is as needlessly complicated as if say, someone assumed another's identity and rigged an entire year long tournament just to trick a kid into grabbing a portkey.
It was clearly about Sirius not finding Harry because Fudge pointed out the Aunt Marge incident during Harry's hearing in Order of the Phoenix. Dumbledore had to remind Fudge that he didn't press charges. The whole incident is about Fudge's bias towards Harry. He let him off out of concern that a killer was coming, and two years later when he was trying to discredit Harry's claims about Voldemort's return, he finally showed his anger of what happened to Marge.
the one caveat that might explain the discrepancy in book 5 is that the Order has several members in prominent positions at the ministry. Tonks and Kingsley are Aurors (and moody a retired but well respected Auror), Mr. Weasley actually worked closely with the department that manages the Trace in his job of tracking down unauthorized uses of magic on muggle items, and the Head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement Amelia Bones (Susan's aunt, who is the judge that acts very supportive of Harry in his hearing and is more impressed with his Patronus then anything else), while not a member of the Order herself, is the sister of OotP member and hero Edgar Bones (who was murdered with his entire family and his and Amelia's parents by Death Eaters during Voldemort's first war), and so probably knows about the order and may have given them some "unofficial aid".
You know I just realized since we're talking about the trace and statute of secrecy and Muggleborns being not favored by this a question came to me about the statute and muggle wizard weddings. How does the process of getting a muggle partner as a wizard work? Do you have to register it to the ministry? Does the ministry keep tabs on the muggle partner so he or she doesn't reveal to anyone else about magic? What happens during a divorce? Is the partner just Obliviated so they can forget magic? Food for thought
16:28 well on this one i think that it probably is allowed to cast spells on the train like i mean whatever ron did sure didn't turn the rat golden but it definitely did something and let's not forget about malfoy stunning Harry
magic was permitted on train home kids make use of last hours of use magic chamber of secrets Malfoy stunning harry not that crime , safe enough place for magic
Maybe the trace only activates when a child gets their wand? That would at least explain the Hagrid situation and as for Dobbie and Aunt Marge situation, The ministry wasn't after Harry, on top of him being a celebrity, they just let it all slide
That's my theory. I feel like maybe the spell is put on Ollivander's wands, and maybe it only activates when it connects with Hogwarts' Wards. And not sure how it would know when to break though. That would be something to figure out.
But Hermione probably had her wand when practicing the spells, as muggle borns wouldn't know the spells without spell books and only learns about that stuff after getting hogwarts letter, and yet she doesn't get threatened (to our knowledge). Though, HP has a lot of plot holes
@@CAMnami that's the point. She practiced before she ever got to Hogwarts, which means the spell could have been activated by her wand crossing the wards. Which could explain why they take first years across the lake.
@@Whyteroze28 brilliant! That would very well explain it! My guess with when the spell breaks, is that the Ministry is a bureaucracy, they could very well remotely dispell it when they become 17, and they purposefully did not get rid of the trace on Harry. And when Harry was using magic on his 17th birthday, the ministry was probably ignoring it so it would not be revealed to Harry the trace was still active.
Moody: "If you sneeze, the Ministry will know who wipes your nose." Except the trace only lets them know magic was done in the general area of an underage wizard. Yeah, the "trace" was very poorly thought out if we are to believe that JK intended it to be a real thing. *I* think it's just a rouse. It's a boogeyman story to scare children into not doing magic. The ministry will have some ability to monitor magic use, and will wherever possible enforce the law to make it seem like the trace exists, but I'm pretty sure it's not real.
The way to think about wizarding currencies is this imagine if 17 Knuts is 1p, 29 Sickles is 50p and a Galleon is £1 (or what ever the equivalent is in the the country you come from), it takes alot of mental arithmetic to work out if you aren't used to it but if you are born into this world it's second Nature
Theory: Perhaps when Tom Riddle killed the muggles, the ministry didn't use the trace? It was 50 years before after all, so maybe the rule hadn't been pt in place yet, or maybe the rules of the trace broke at an earlier age in those days. Just a thought.
He made the Horcrux before, due to his birthday. Tom was born end of December, meaning he’s a year older than his school year (I.E, Harry’s age directly reflects his school year) so he would’ve been 16 during the summer before his 6th year. And the diary held a “16 year old Riddle”. And it is heavily implied that the death of Myrtle happened towards the end of the school year
Considering Tom Riddle is supposed to be a genius and a prodigy with magic, it is possible he just found or invented a way to deactivate trace at will. People do all sort of things to get out of house arrest, some of them successfully.
I like the boat theory. As for Hermione casting spells, I believe the first time they get a note saying they can't do magic at home is at the end of the year. It's the only time we get to know about this on the book.
So then the note itself might be the trace? A magical contract. Up until they receive the note, they're unaware that they can't perform magic while away from Hogwarts, now they do. Those from magical families do, but are held in check only by their parents anyway. It appears the trace isn't tied to the underage wizard themselves, but to their immediate surroundings where they are supposed to be (their home). Harry doesn't get in trouble for magic performed around him while at The Burrows. I was agreeing with the boat ride until I saw your comment. Now, I think the boat ride is just a way to get the first years there in a more peaceful way, away from the rest of the rowdy upperclassmen. It also gives them a full, breathtaking view of the castle. I think that the trace is, in fact placed upon them when they read and understand that they aren't allowed to perform underaged magic outside of school grounds. Otherwise, why not just tell them at the end of the year during announcements? Magical contracts were a big theme in the book.
@@jenx5870 I agree with you on this, I think since they know where every wizard lives having the charm there makes more sense. That could also be why they didn't detect Tom Riddle killing his father and grandparents even tho he was underage. Also funny thing boat ride is just a way to get the first years there in a more peaceful way, except when the weather is terrible and they almost drown XDD
The only one I can actually defend is Hagrid on the rock. Harry has no idea that he's a wizard, has no wand, hasn't been sorted. Hagrid is "above age". So I figure there is no trace on anyone at the rock.
How does that defend it? The fact still exists that magic was used in Harry's proximity, and that's all that is required. The trace reports when spells or certain types of magic is used in proximity to an underage witch/wizard, it doesn't after if the witch/wizard is unaware of the fact that they are, have a wand or are sorted. If they have the trace, they are underage, and magic is used near them, it would be reported. Since it's unlikely that Harry at this point would know how to give Dudley a tail, or light the fireplace, the ministry should have been able to deduce it must have been Hagrid or whoever had went there. The only explanation that works in this case is that Harry doesn't have the trace yet. Any other explanation falls apart or leads to further contradictions.
nah, Hagrid is not supposed to have a wand at this point, he wasn't cleared of being the Chamber of Secrets opener until almost 2yrs after he gave Harry his Hogwarts letter.
that's correct. even if the ministry could detect magic there, there's no wizard with the trace on it. it still doesn't justify that magic was performed in front of muggles, but that has nothing to do with the trace. only with keeping the statute of secrecy. and the dursley are already aware of magic so there would be no need to take action because of that. if I remember right, Hagrid got permision to use magic to deliver the letter to harry. how did he got that permision is another plot hole but it would explain why nobody took action against hagrid.
Hagrid isn't *supposed* to use magic but he is over 17. My theory is any adult wizard in proximity nullifies the trace. Hagrid would still count as an adult wizard even though he was expelled
Does anyone believe that Mundungus spent weeks watching Harry in Order of the Phoenix and e didn't use magic? We literally know he disoperates from the other side of the road on a muggle area, and that didn't trigger the trace🤔
That's a good point. Maybe they're assuming Harry wouldn't know how to apparate so the magic isn't blamed on him? Or maybe he was far enough away? We're never given a hard limit for what counts as 'around an underage witch or wizard'
I think he would have been at such a distance that it wouldn't be counted even if it did technically trigger the trace. We know there are witches and wizards around little winging because of several lines in the philosopher's stone about Harry and the Dursleys meeting weird people.
@@thebuddercweeper Witches and wizards can move from one side of the country to the other in a split second, meeting those people doesn't mean they live in the area. We're also directly told there aren't any other magical people in Harry's area during his hearing in front of the Wizengamot: “Arabella Doreen Figg,” said Mrs. Figg in her quavery voice. “And who exactly are you?” said Fudge, in a bored and lofty voice. “I’m a resident of Little Whinging, close to where Harry Potter lives,” said Mrs. Figg. “We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter,” said Madam Bones at once. “That situation has always been closely monitored, given … given past events.” “I’m a Squib,” said Mrs. Figg. “So you wouldn’t have me registered, would you?”
@@thebuddercweeper @Apple Pi I believe he triggered a car alarm that made Harry spring up with his wand out from where he was hiding. The ministry wouldn't have known about the Order following Harry because Dumbledore doesn't trust them. They did meet wizards but I don't think a specific location was mentioned. What I know for sure was that it wasn't in Privet Drive itself.
About this at 6:30 it wouldn’t be as big in Britain because we get 5-6 weeks off at summer so we have less chance to forget what we learns the previous year
About the quidditch thing mentioned at the start, I saw a theory that the reason catching the snitch gets so many points is because back when quidditch first became a sport, broom technology was much less advanced, so catching the snitch was significantly harder. We know that the longest quidditch match was 3 MONTHS, and overall, quidditch matches used to be much longer, giving the teams much more time to rack up points from scoring in the hoops. This means that catching the snitch wouldn’t actually have as big of an effect on the scores. However, when brooms became faster and faster, catching the snitch became easier, which is where we land in Harry’s time, where if you catch the snitch you’re team is basically guaranteed to win because there simply wasn’t enough time to score enough points in the hoop to make a big enough difference.
The wand chooses the wizard, so giving your wand to your kids would likely just lead to a lot of frustration. Just take them to a secluded area, cast some spells on the perimeter, and let them practice with their own wands. The Ministry isn't in a hurry to show up even if they detect the Avada Kedavra being cast around a minor [like when Voldemort murdered his father and grandparents], so your chances of being caught are basically zero. Also want to point out that prior incantato doesn't tell you when a spell was cast, so you can claim the spells were done at school before end of term.
I don’t think the trace existed when Tom riddle went, and that’s why it didn’t alert the ministry. The trace came after that event, probably during the 1st wizard war so they could find wizards threatening a child, which also explains why it only tracks the magic around them, not just the magic they preform.
It's an interesting theory. But in HBP, when Harry says 'But Riddle was underage! The ministry can detect underage magic!', Dumlbedore replies 'They can detect magic yes, but not its perpetrator', rather than replying 'The trace wasn't a thing back then'.
Also, if Dobby’s magic was picked up when he dropped the cake on the ladies head, why didn’t it detect the magic used to disapparate in and out of the house?
same reason that he can apparate and dissapparate at hogwarts. his magic is different. he must be using a spell he knows will be detected to move the cake but his apparateing abilities are different enough to not be detected.
Elf magic works differently he's able to apperate in and out of places he's not meant to so I reckon he manipulation his magic in order for it to be triggered as 'harry doing it ' as a way to forcefully stop harry from going back to Hogwarts
i'm very late to this, (and don't yet know if this was revisited in a later video) but i'd think it might make more sense for the Trace to be some kind of overarching magical oath that applies to all genetic wizards/witches in-universe rather than being something manually-applied to each individual
This may just be me speculating. Was the trace even in place when Tom killed his relatives? And is it possible that said event may be the reason it was put into place?
I thought that too. Did the ministry ever find out or acknowledge that it was Riddle, though? Or did they never look into it again after they blamed Morfin?
Harry asks about this after he views the memory and Dumbledore doesn't say the trace was not yet in place but rather that the trace doesn't identify who actually cast the spells.
I always assumed the trace came with the note at the end of the year (the one warning the children not to use magic during the summer) According to Fred (or George), they hand out this note every year.
I’ve read a lot of theories that say that the only thing you need to do to break the trace is to use a temporary ageing potion! That would make it a bit too obvious and easy, but it’s a great theory. (And it’s probably not that easy to brew or buy that potion, so it might not be as easy as it sounds.)
@@wasatchwizard4770 Personally I believe that it just detects your age and checks whether you have an aging potion in your body, but that's a viable thoery.
Regarding the trace not working on adults: the human body goes through some changes during puberty, maybe there's some changes in a wizard's body that disables the trace in adults and someone just decided to use it for a specific purpose (tracking underage magic) Maybe there are other spells that only work on either on people under 17, or only on those older but not both. Would be an interesting effect to study.
Perhaps because the Ministry knows that Harry wouldn’t be able to do it. They only learn how to apparate at the age of 15/16 (in their 6th year). When Dobby comes to the house, Harry is still going to his second year.
well there clearly has to be some form of Trace on you from birth because the Book of Admittance wont let the Quill of Acceptance write a name until sufficient proof of magical ability is shown. So they must have some way of tracking magical powers from children
I’ve thought of that more as a magical things that just “knows” if someone has magic, rather than a trace on all children born in the world. Like a magic pen/book that writes the name of every child in Britain that uses magic for the first time.
This headcannon could explain all the trace related plotholes, if you don´t want them to exists: Adult "registered" wizards, i.e. wizards that HAD the trace, when they were children, get some kind of anti-trace when they come of age. Now their magic doesn´t get detected by a young wizards trace in their vicinity anymore. With this explanation in mind, magic cast by magical creatures would still get detected by a nearby trace. In combination with the theory, that the trace is placed on first year students by their schools, this would explain everything i think.
One little update: This only works, if you assume, that the trace is "new" or that Voldemort, when he still was called Tom Riddle, actually found a way to remove it, before coming off age, as mentioned in the video.
I have a theory for you about the trace. It's 'places' when the name is recorded in a book, but doesn't become 'legally binding' until the sorting ceremony, and maybe it becomes more reactive the stronger the skill. I think they did know about Tom Riddles actions in the orphanage, Dumbledore sure seemed to. I suggest that because the book records when a child is born and the trace is tied to a birthday, if it was from the boat ride or any other first year thing there's no real way to account for different ages and birthdays.
I believe the trace is on the wand, with detection on the dursleys and similar homes being a separate form of detection around the home, thus explaining hagred and voldemort not being detected but accidental magic and dobby being so, when at the dursleys.
Now that I think about it, Voldemort and his Death Eaters did a lot of magic, including unforgivables, around an underage Harry at the cemetery in Little Hangleton. Surely that could've been evidence for what Harry told Fudge had happened there at the end of GoF. I suppose Fudge intentionally avoided looking into it, and the whole ministry just went with it.
in fact, harry himself casts a spell to duel voldemort. that's why we discover that the wands are siblings and can't harm each other. so here is the thing. Fudge wants to get rid of Harry and Harry weeks ago performed underage magic on a muggle area. what a nice way to expell harry. but that would be bad for the plot. let's look the other side.
@@WilliamWizer I think it would be difficult to prove it was Harry who cast Expelliarmus in the cemetary that day. Remember, they can only detect the underage magic, not who did it, and prior incantato doesn't give an exact time a spell was performed, just a kind of log of the recent spells. Nobody would be able to prove Harry didn't cast that spell while still in the maze.
@@limiv5272 The dark answer is that if Fudge/The Ministry did look into it, they would have likely realized they'd be implicating some influential, rich, and powerful Wizards, some of whom were also Ministry officials. Covering the whole thing up by accusing Potter of fabricating it kills two birds with one stone, and prevents a lot of awkward public investigations. In this case, it's not just about pretending that everything was fine and Voldemort hadn't returned, but about the scandal of everyone involved if the event is acknowledged.
@@limiv5272 remember that the trace can detect where you are when you cast, so it can be proven that harry was at the cementery when the spell was cast and, being a muggle area, no other wizards where there. it's the same thing that happened at the second book. harry was the only wizard at the house so it had to be him. no need to prior incantato.
* I think actually, the Trace *does* track the person's wand. It detects in what household magic has been used, and then finds the wand closest to where this magic has been done. * Dobby, however, being a house elf that can use magic at his own free will, has no wand, hence Harry being given the warning, as he is the only person in the household that could feasibly have done this. * Also, I don't think things like magical sweets or products apply, hence Fred and George not getting warnings for the Toffee or for creating the Snackboxes in their room, as they aren't actually performing magic, its more of a byproduct of the creations. * Also, it makes complete sense for the Trace to only really affect the houses of muggleborns and purebloods or halfbloods living in a muggle-only home, as it's specifically protecting muggles from discovering magic. In a house that has wizards in it, that's not so much of an issue.
You forgot when harry was at his house and used Lumos to read in his room, and Nox to make his wand dark again when daddy Dudley burst in to see any shenanigans. He wasn’t 17, had already been well past his first year, and no one was around. Now THAT is a double whammy!!
I always assumed they didn’t enforce it until they had been at Hogwarts a day because until that point they hadn’t been officially told not to do magic outside school. For everything else though I got nothing.
Just a thing. The magic being in the presence of muggles is a main point of Harry being expelled, and also any time that he had any trouble at all, muggles seeing it was a huge reason. One love ❤️ Ben rocks
Like howlers existing in the second book, when it would have been the best option for informing Harry about his acceptance to hogwarts instead of sending all of the letters in existence.
@@TheNinthGeneration1 omg I never thought of that!!! but then haggard wud still be needed cuz the Dursleys Wundt just drop him and how wud he even get his stuff from dragon alley
Ben, theory idea in the Deathly hallows after harry gets bit by Nagini Hermione puts dittany on the wound and it heals so wouldn't snape have dittany with him at all times?
New theory: Voldemort didn’t set off the trace because he had been using time turners during his time at hogwarts. This also explains how he was able to learn so much so fast while also building up his cult following. After 4-6 years of time turning he has aged significantly, and by the time he did the murders he was already 17 years old
Does no fit the story. Only a few even knew of time turners. Must have special permits Luke Hermonie. Tom is more if a back alley guy who twists things to his will.
I don't know much about time turners and how they work (actually I don't know anything about them besides the fact that they can be used to travel back in time) but couldn't Voldemort just somehow use a time turner to avoid what happens to him at Godric's Hollow when he went to kill Harry? I don't know, I honestly don't know anything about that. Haven't read the books.
Can you make a theory on why Cho was still at school in the 7th book when she was supposed to have graduated? I’m so confused why is she still there???? Also love your videos!!!!
Also in Order of the Phoenix she talks to Harry about the first time they played Quidditch against each other "in the third year" when it was actually her fourth. So to make that work, I suppose she was so talented she skipped a year in the beginning and then Cedric's death threw her out of the loop so badly she had to repeat two years as a consequence.
She was informed that Harry is at Hogwarts by the members of the DA still attending Hogwarts, same as many other characters who showed up at the same time. The coins still worked, and those who weren't still carrying theirs were alerted by those who did. I think this is pretty straightforward.
People forget that in the order of the phoenix book, Fudge was trying to throw Harry under the bus because he ignored Dumbledore's advice in the return of Voldemort. He tried to convince the Wizarding world that he wasn't back and in the book his only reason that he did it was because he just wanted to keep the position.
Precisely! In the third book we see a totally different situation, because Fudge was trying to avoid the shame of not being able to capture Sirius and also “””protecting””” Harry.
About the Snitch thing @1:00 in the books they do mention that the Snitch is worth 150 points, but that you can still lose if the other team is on point. I can’t remember if it was hufflepuff or slytherin that one off points after the other team caught the snitch ending the game, which is why Wood mentions to not catch the snitch until they are at least 20 points up
1:47 The word I like to use is "Whimsical". honestly think this word was a sort of touchstone for the author when creating the world. Things don't need to be sensible, in fact it's often better if they aren't. It sometimes borders on the silly but not quite over the line is where the worldbuilding really shines.
@@hordenallimaniafan2565 It wouldn’t really surprise me if the Ministry wrote the law as “children are free to use magic during the school year” rather than “children are free to use magic at school grounds” 😂
2 роки тому
@@Cascadeis I think they're also using magic when they're visiting the village, which happens during the school year but not on school grounds.
Free to use magic but I doubt it stops tracing them during the school year. They're just not punished. And it can tell what spell was used because harry gets in trouble specifically for a hover charm. If they could tell what magic was used at Harry's house they should have been able to tell that unforgivable curses were used in the graveyard.
When the Aurors arrive for Harry and use magic, I assume the ministry wouldn't have minded because I'm sure Fudge would have loved to ridicule Harry for the case they already, instead of straight up just expelling him then and there. Also, I believe it was Dumbledore who convinced the ministry to put on the trial. My best guess is Fudge was too afraid of what Dumbledore would do if they filed yet another crime.
I actually think, that the fact, that muggle borns are "suffering" more from the trace is a good thing. Because when there is no one around that can fix things or help when a spell goes wrong it's much more dangerous to practice spells. I mean, students even get feathers to explode while practicing wingardium leviosa.
Good point! Also, pure bloods have probably been raised practicing magic in some form since birth, or at least having seen their family do magic, whereas the muggleborns have no reference points at all. (Imagine having lived with a family that bakes bread at home all your life and then being told to bake yourself - compared to never having seen anyone bake and then trying to bake bread on your own. 🤷🏽♀️)
Harry was taken out of the maze and into the graveyard, which is off school grounds, so why couldn’t they use the trace on him to see he was in the graveyard like he said and Avada kedavra was used (multiple times) there around him as an underage wizard, as well as all the other magic that was used there, to corroborate the series of events that Harry says? I know Fudge didn’t want to believe Harry without actual physical evidence but that would be pretty damning that at least all events Harry stated occurred so the likelihood that hes just lying about Voldemort is low
My headcanon for the Trace is that it's applied and renewed every year through the notes that are handed out before they get on the train home. "I always hope they'll forget to give us these!" Why do the twins hope that, when they and their parents clearly already know? Because then they could do magic outside their magical house as well as within! This would be an easy way for Tom Riddle and other students to escape the Trace, just by not taking the note somehow. There are still inconsistencies at Privet Drive, of course. It could be that it should have always been blocked by the blood protections, but Dobby was able to deliberately mimic the signal. It could be that inflating Marge wasn't detected by the Trace, but by the local police reports which were watched by wizards. It could be that Harry's Patronus actually wasn't detected, but Umbridge was watching and sent the report herself. It seems significant to me that the Lumos Harry cast right before that _wasn't_ in the report.
I always just assumed Tom riddle was strong enough to remove the trace. It makes sense that it doesn't happen again because Dumbledore is the only other wizard that was as powerful. Voldemort was exceptional, youre obviously not going to set laws based on someone who is literally one of one and yet to have been born. And there is no trace on kids that aren't in school
They made a mistake in the video. In deathly hallows it shows that the murders were pinned on Voldemort‘s uncle Morphin gaunt who was there at the time and was a known Muggle hater and a criminal. Voldemort modified Morfin’s memory to confess.
@@Rimsha4peace I need to watch it back but what is actually said is that he stunned his uncle then went to the muggle house and killed them before returning to modify his memory and take the ring. Meaning it should have still be on riddle since he was underage with the trace still on him. It would automatically detect the spell he cast since he's an underage wizard using magic in the vicinity of muggles. It would have made more since if he used the imperius curse on morfin to go do it and then modified his memory when he returned to forget riddle made him do it. Because underage magic doesn't register in Wizarding homes.
1) The Trace only becomes active after a child has started at Hogwarts, so Hagrid's magic would not have been detected. And now I'm at the point of the video where you suggest that, so...yup, alrighty, I feel dumb now. This likely also applies to magical law. Children get off scot-free until they reach Hogwarts. 2) The solution seems clear: the Trace also automatically detects any witches or wizards near the teenager in question (but not their identity, perhaps?). House-elves (naturally) don't count. If there's an adult witch/wizard nearby, the Trace doesn't alert the Ministry. This means that if Draco is alone at home, for example, and he casts a spell, he still gets caught. 3) Voldemort is a clever fellow. I'm sure he'd work out how to bypass the Trace.
So yes the trace makes no sense but at the same time, kinda does? You just really have to look at what is going on in each year. Chamber of Secrets like you said, Dobby can just leave and since a house elf wouldn't typically be in a muggle home, the ministry would just think it's harry and gave him the warning. Prizoner of Azkaban however I like to think had Sirius NOT escaped Azkaban Harry probably would have suffered more consequences. Given they thought Sirius would be after Harry, it was safer to just ignore the use of underage magic and keep him at Hogwarts safe (though, it ended up not being that safe). In Order of the Phoenix, the ministry is AGAINST Harry and Dumbledore because they refuse to believe Voldemort is back. It would make sense they would want to get Harry out of school as to not speak "lies" They don't trust him so they would find any excuse to get Harry out. Even Dumbledore asked since when do they hold a whole criminal trial for a bit of underage magic? The instance of the Weasleys coming in Goblet of Fire, I'm almost certain they had permission to set up the floo network temporarily to pick up Harry, otherwise how did it get set up in the first place? So there were adult wizards of age they knew about so any spells cast would probably be overlooked, and I'm also sure Arthur would have mentioned what happened and why he needed to use cleaning spells. The flying car you already answered. The Hut on the rock. That's easy. Harry wasn't actually a student yet therefore couldn't be expelled. It's known that pure/half blood wizards and witches who haven't started school tend to get away with magic because they can't control it. It's generally up to the parents to try and discipline the kids, but once they start school and learn to control it, that's when the ministry can step in. (Except muggle borns the parents can't help because they don't know). This also goes to something you mention toward the end about Hermione openly admitting she did magic, or young Tom Riddle or Harry using magic knowingly or not. There are theorys the trace is placed on them when boarding the hogwarts express, (though the boats would make more sense if thats the case) but then again it is never fully explained if they are born with the trace, or it is placed upon them. Since it breaks the moment they turn 17 without needing it removed, it would make sense that they are just born with it. Again with Order of the Phoenix, I mean Harry is already on trial because of the dementor attack and they want to get rid of him, but given it didn't come up on his trial about those spells, it could very well be Tonks and the other aurors could have arranged this, but given the ministry didn't believe in Voldemort's return they probably found some kind of work around. Could be who ever was on duty in that department work with the order and just didn't report it. Half Blood Prince, probably Dumbledore set something up, given now the ministry knows about Voldemort and wants Harry safe again. Deathly Hallows, obviously they didn't want to apparate and they took the non-traceable methods because the order felt the Mistry had been infiltrated by Voldemort's followers and having Harry with a trace would have let the death eaters know and trace him had they used apparition. Don't forget they didn't know the death eaters would be in the sky waiting, or that the ministry would fall shortly after and give away the location Harry was brought to anyway. In terms of Voldemort killing the Riddles...that I have no actual explanation for. That is a time where it doesn't make sense.
I loved your comment. About Tom, maybe he wasn’t caught because his uncle, who was an adult, was there. If we remember the story, Voldemort talks to Morfin, does something to him, goes to the Riddles’ house, kill his relatives (granny, grandpa and father) and then comes back.
@@tinagoldsteinscamander But the ministry still should have been alerted about underage magic. Morfin isn't underage, therefore no trace, meaning Ministry wouldn't know. It would only make sense if Tom somehow got Morfin to do the actual spells while he watched, but it is known Tom modified Morfins memory to think he had done it. I feel like this whole situation is just something the author overlooked and didn't actually think through.
If the trace isn't put on you until you go across the lake, which makes since, then how is it put on you? Is there like a magical barrier at some part of the lake or on the boats that put it on you? Also, if you don't have the trace until you get to hogwarts how do they find out that you're doing magic in the first place to determine whether or not you can even attend hogwarts? Also, how do they know your exact location when they send a letter? Like in order of the Phoenix Petunia's letter literally says, Mrs. Petunia Dursley, the kitchen 4 Privet drive. And does using your wand to get into diagon alley count as magic? And what about Lumose? Hermione and Ron use it in Goblit of Fire at the quidditch world cup in the forest. Is there just to many people there for it to matter?
Well there’s 2 magical artifacts,the quill of acceptance and the book of admittance,that are kept in a room at Hogwarts that decide whether or not a chil can attend Hogwarts based on their displays of magic before they’re 11,it’s explained in potter more archive.As for the location thing,I have no idea.
They can only track where the spell was performed and who was near and not specifically who did the spell. That's why Harry was punished when Dobby used the Hover Charm; they don't trace house elves.
FUTURE VIDEO TOPIC IDEA: Guys, I'm blown away at the realization I just had. Hagrid's wand was broken when he was expelled. We all know he has that umbrella disguising a ridiculously long wand by Harry's time at Hogwarts, and if anyone ever thought about it they may have assumed he got a new wand and hid it. Certainly no one in the Wizarding World could ever suspect that he had his original wand because it's impossible to repair a snapped wand as far as we know... but that's because no one knew Dumbledore had the Elder Wand. I now think Hagrid did indeed have his once-broken wand and that Dumbledore repaired it for him!
In the first book there was a conversation between Hagrid and Olivander when Harry stepped into the shop to get his wand. Hagrid admitted he was allowed to keep the pieces of his wand.
@@thirteenthandy There's also a passage in the second book, when everyone arrives at Diagon Alley describing a "junk shop" that sold all sorts of broken things, including broken wands. It's possible that the wand core could be placed into another piece of wood if the core wasn't destroyed.
I think, with all the inconsistencies,(ignoring the fact this is just a book series, it might make sense that the Trace is naturally-occuring. That maybe it's something all wizards are born with, and the Ministry of Magic has just figured out how to tap into, but they aren't flawless. They don't catch everyone. So maybe they only look into people they dislike or would actually be able to do something about(for example, it would be hard to prove that underage magic is going on in a magical family, so they just ignore it). It sounds alot like the Ministry of Magic anyway.
The weirder part to me in Order than the crew picking Harry up is that Mundungus Fletcher is apparating in and out of Privet Drive just before the use of the Patronus charm
It sounds to me as if the Trace IS indeed some kind of spell that is connected to some biological (or astronomical or even astrological) trait of a person, and THAT is why it AUTOMATICALLY breaks on your 17th birthday, and CANNOT be used again - the spell is only HALF of the Trace itself! The Trace is a COMBINATION of the two! This is not to say some OTHER kind of tracking spell cannot be used on a witch/wizard at any other time, just that the Trace, specifically, CANNOT be!
So true. There’s no reason for HP content if you’re not going to be trying to come up with an explanation for the innumerable plot holes JKR had then and the ones that were created in the years since.
@@matsdevink2858 It's implied in your very critical assessment of Rowling's work that it's sub par in some way and in need of betterment and explanation. Which is nonsense. You'd be hard pressed to find any book series of a similar length that has fewer plot holes or other faults than the Harry Potter series, never mind one that is also extremely popular at that. Also, there's nothing these very funny guys provide that is essential for enjoying the books, so calling them 'great people' when all they're really doing is being fan theorists with a big platform is odd. Highlighting the comparatively few mistakes the author made when she wrote the books as if they're some sort of big problem and labeling the funny brothers as 'great people' for coming up with potential hole fillers is a very strange relationship to have with the Potter universe in my opinion which is why I rolled my eyes at your attitude.
I don’t know if this was in the movie so it’s not canon but in the third movie prisoner of askaban Harry Potter does a spell like five times one night and then doesn’t get in trouble for it
There are a ton of inconsistencies and things that don’t make sense on Harry Potter. Some of the most significant plot points in the series come from people not being believed at their word or being convicted/punished for something they did not commit. The existence of truth serum, the pensive and a ton of other things mean that these kind of mistakes should literally never happen. Additionally, in the same vein of this video, if people were so concerned with Harry using magic outside of school, why would they keep sending him to live with a muggle family (who also abuses him) while he is being hunted by some of the most powerful wizards in history. I mean you are just asking for trouble. Don’t even get me started with Voldemort’s plans. He sets up some many elaborate plans that can and should fail in 100 different ways, all to accomplish easy tasks. For example, the whole plan on goblet of fire is just to get a few drops of blood which he could have just had fake Moody get at some point in the whole entire semester, the whole plan in order of the phoenix is unnecessary because he could have just gotten the prophecy himself, and don’t give me any of this “he would be to easy to spot” because Polly juice is a thing.
I always assumed the Trace was added AFTER Tom murdered his family. Because we hear Petunia say that Lily would come home EVERY summer and turn something (i think the teacups cant remember) into frogspawn. Lily was born to a muggle family, she used magic EVERY summer, and was never in trouble. I am thinking the trace may have been something done, during Voldemorts first rise to power, just after Lily and James graduate and they just kept it around after that. Honestly the trace makes no sense even in universe. You are telling me that a person created a spell that tells them or something that underage wizards are using magic? For what point was that even made except for maybe back in the master and apprentice days where there was no school and an adult wizard taught you. That kind of makes sense if you are a stern teacher. But how its uses now makes no sense. They already say in the books that its pointless to try and govern the trace in wizard homes so they leave it up to parents to discipline them, but all muggleborn kids get screwed from that lenancy and are threatened with expulsion when their wizardborn counterparts arent? Sounds like a mistake to me. As Ben says, not being able to practice your spells and magic but still having homework during the summer makes no sense. Why aren't the muggleborn houses adopted as "Wizard Homes" now that they are wizards. They and their family must know about magic, and they should be allowed to practice inside their house even if their family sees it, their family knows about it and have seen diagon alley already.
@@Natalie-xy7zy timeline does add up. I said AFTER he killed his parents. Lily and James attended Hogwarts AFTER that point, and there is evidence to suggest there was no Trace while Lily and James were in school. I worded it that way to say both Tom and Lily didnt get in trouble with the trace because I believe it didnt exsist or at least wasnt used back then.
This seems to be much more consistent than other problems in the series. It's possible the trace is a recent thing which would explain away Tom Riddle's use of magic. There are also possible explanations for a lot of the examples given here
"let them just use your wand", hold on. How often have we heard the words Wand Loyalty which could literally endanger your children by letting them use a wand that isn't loyal to them like Neville's wand constantly rebelling because it didn't choose him.
Depends on the wood and core, while wands won't work as well for someone other than their owner, most wood and core combinations aren't particularly temperamental. Neville had a particularly bad combo given to him. Ron also got his wand hand-me-down style and it worked for him, just not very well, in fact this serves as a direct example of a family having their child use someone else's wand.
Also worth noting that it matters how the wand is handed down. We know wands can change allegiance temporarily or with very little motivating as Harry taking Draco's want physically from his hand serves as enough to change the allegiance. If a parent willingly let their child use their wand, and such was their will, the wands would likely obey and work alright for them, just not at full power. For example Ron's brother consented to Ron using his old want, and that wand did work for Ron (again albeit not that well) for a while before Ron got a new one. Neville on the other hand was given his fathers wand after his father was no longer able to give consent because he'd been made insane already.
His "Japanese Golfer Joke" is interrupted earlier when Dobby was trying to beat himself up with the desk lamp! If you watch the scene Dobby uses the hover charm, he'd just finished a joke about: "'Look at all that water', and the second plumber said: 'And that's just the top of it'"
The quidditch thing makes sense. 13 teams. It’s not like the NFL where you have an average of 3 year career. You could have a 20 year career. So anyone coming out of school isn’t a lock to make a team as they will have a pool of players from potentially the last 20 years. Especially at positions like keeper and beater. I imagine there is a higher turnover at seeker and chaser. But still a lot of competition. Not to mention overseas players.
Overseas complicates things further. There's only 11 magical schools in the world and somehow there's enough Quidditch players for the likes of Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Fiji to have their own teams. In the UK, there's around 700,000 births per year and Hogwarts has 30-40 new students, giving us roughly one magical person in every 20,000. Also, Britain could be presumed to have a higher than average concentration of magical births given that it's got its own magical school for a population of 70 million, when the global average is one school per 700 million people. Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Fiji ought to have a total magical population of about 2, 30 and 45 respectively and that's assuming that, like Britain, they have a 10-times-higher than average rate of magical births. How they're managing to send teams to the Quidditch World Cup is anyone's guess.
@@brynknight2745 because you only need a squad of maybe 20. And if you get 3 good players a year from each country and a bunch of people who play professionally for over 10 years you easily have a surplus of players. The same way these countries put out soccer teams. They may not be as good, but they can still compete.
@@darthsimian2196 If Luxembourg and Fiji have similar wizarding birth rates to the UK, then they 1 wizard born every 2-3 years. If they're closer to the world average, it's more like one wizard per generation. Liechtenstein is just ridiculous; the nation's population is 38,000 so if one in every 20,000 people is magical, what on earth is going on? Is the country just one massive wizarding enclave, like a giant Godric's Hollow?
@@brynknight2745 yeah. Kind of. The fact that they have teams tells you there are enough magical people to make team, even if they have 3 40 year olds 2 25 year olds and a 17 year old in the team. These countries may be places that wizards and witches migrate to or have thriving communities precisely because of the small population. There is no telling how post ww2 and 2nd wizarding war effected the magical population or their migratory habits. It would make sense to form communities in smaller countries where there is less muggle population, surveillance, or even just more rural areas where they can have GH like villages. Or there are large wizarding families like the Weasleys who almost had enough for a whole team on their own. And just because they were at one World Cup doesn’t mean that they are at every World Cup. Their may be cycles where they can’t put a team together. It’s not explained but there are any number of ways that it makes sense. Even if the manager is like Jackie Charlton and and slight hint that your great grand parents visited the place let’s you qualify. Or that players who couldn’t make their own National team move to these places to represent them. It’s not inconsistent, inconceivable or even a big leap to come up with any explanation for how there are enough players. It’s the only professional wizard sport. It isn’t competing for recruits.
I would like to argue that young Tom Riddle using the unforgivable curse three times as a 15-year-old might be why kids are not allowed to use magic outside of school and now have a trace on them it probably wasn't always a thing Also Voldemort being the type of person he is maybe he used a aging potion or something to make him 17 briefly so he could do this without being under the trace or maybe he took a sip apologies potion to make him into somebody older for a few minutes
Dont even get me started on "LUMOS MAXIMA" at the start of the Prisoner of Azkaban movie....
Don’t get me started on that too. Please do a Percy Jackson theory! And also a she hulk theory too! That would be much appreciated!
It's the same reason he wasn't charged with inflating Marge. They let him off because Sirius was free.
@@questbuilds7736 YES!!! We need Percy Jackson theories since the dawn of time!
@@SarcasmKing23 yes! They even said last January would be Percy Jackson January!
How about Mundungus Fletcher apparating in the order of the Phoenix
The books actually tell us twice that the No Magic Outside School law doesn't apply to young children, and why. In DH Young Snape tells Lily “We’re all right. We haven’t got wands yet. They let you off when you’re a kid and you can’t help it. But once you’re eleven,” he nodded importantly, “and they start training you, then you’ve got to go careful.”. In HBP Dumbledore explains to Tom Riddle that “At Hogwarts,” Dumbledore went on, “we teach you not only to use magic, but to control it. You have - inadvertently, I am sure - been using your powers in a way that is neither taught nor tolerated at our school. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to allow your magic to run away with you. But you should know that Hogwarts can expel students, and the Ministry of Magic - yes, there is a Ministry - will punish lawbreakers still more severely. All new wizards must accept that, in entering our world, they abide by our laws.” Put together, we understand that young witches and wizards can't control their magic and are therefore not punished, but when they get old enough and start learning to control their magic they're expected to control themselves and will be punished if they don't.
Which suggests that the magical world has an Age of Criminal Responsibility (for the use of magic, at least), which starts at eleven
@@TheAnalyticalEngine One year older than for muggles in the UK
Where is the young cutoff like i Get if a super young kid accidentally like blew up thier aunt would be fine but i feel it would Get more blurry around 10-14
@@LeahBouley The cut off is right there in the quote: it's once you start training at the school. So 11-12, depending on when your birthday is.
Learning to control your magic would have been a very good opportunity for plausible subject, arguably a lot more plausible than some existing ones. But while Dumbledore claims to Riddle that they teach this, we never hear anything about it, really. I'd imagine in to be something like Harry's occlumency lessons. That would've fit really well into the stories and could've been another thing Neville is (accidentally?) good at.
"It all depends on what the Ministry thinks of Harry at the time." Exactly the point of the inconsistencies, that's how the Ministry works. It also has so many loopholes for those from magical families because they are the ones who make the laws and give the Ministry the most money.
wonder where i’ve seen a political system like this before… hmm……
I agree and yet why not bring up in trial (for underage magic) other spells done at privet drive days later like the hover charm .
Dursley neighbours not wake to noise of flying car and take photos ?
I was going to say something like this. Technically our government has the CAPABILITY of reading our texts or bugging our phones... But they don't unless they have a reason too (like preventing terrorism). Just because the Ministry could trace magic near underage doesn't mean they were actually regularly monitoring and enforcing it.
Yea in book 3 the ministry gives harry a break because they think Sirius is after him and what are they gonna tell him? Under no circumstances should you do underage magic even if your about to be killed and need to defend yourself. They know this is a real possibility and dont want to discourage harry from using magic to defend himself by punishing him for blowing up his aunt.
Merica the weird! 🥸😎🤓
The worst part about the trace: the ministry is using the trace to find out about underaged magic, but does not use the trace charm to identify the use of the unforgivable curses....
Yeah, why couldnt they put a taboo on them like the name voldemort?
Maybe they didn't have the trace yet
@@the_twelfth_shadow that's what I always thought
@@thorthewolf8801 I blame corruption by the Malfoys.
they ain't america. And proud of it... no actually it is reverse, the american magical government are very, very proud about how serious they are about security. there you need permission and licenses for each individual spell you intend to use in your everyday life. Otherwise its fines, and at worst having yourself be dissolved in a pool of soul destroying liquid or somesuch, very nice and sensible the magical world is. almost like its satire.
The scene of Harry practising Lumos under the covers always bothered me for this reason. He is doing magic.
I can see the possibility that spells like Lumos are pretty much ignored for this purpose. I'd assume they trigger it, but when it's just something like Lumos, they don't do anything. Afterall, even for the purpose of keeping magic secret, it'll just look like a little toy flashlight.
@@epion660 that's fair... maybe they only really enforce it if it's done in the presence of a muggle
Ikr
It could be homework tho
That’s only in the movies though, in the books he is using a normal flashlight. This change really bugged me, too.
It might be that if it can be explained easily via a non magic answer you only get a warning and it just didn't arrive before harry left due to similar cases happening a lot
Counter theory to the boats:
The sorting hat puts the trace on you.
that actually makes sense
Except other schools exist
I assumed that the trace was placed on the wand by olivander when a student got their first wand
@@JACpotatosnot under the control of the ministry tho, we don't know if any other magical government uses the trace. Don't be silly
@@UhOhDovah saying "don't be silly" when you're the ones making random assumptions is WILD
The scene with Dobby using the hover charm to drop the cake bothers me, for a different reason. Dobby is not a human wizard. They mention that House Elf magic is different from human magic. Are they saying that the Trace cannot differentiate between a human and elf casting magic?
Clearly they are, but that's silly. Imagine if Draco was alone at home with Dobby as a child, and Dobby was doing his usual chores and then Draco gets into trouble with the ministry for that. The only way out of that plot hole I can think of is that House Elves can do magic in a way that mimics that of witches and wizards if they choose to, and on that day Dobby chose to in order to get Harry expelled so he'd be safely away from Hogwarts. Thoughts?
@@limiv5272 well the ministry would know of the presence of a house elf at the Malfoys and could account for that. Theres no account for a house elf at the Dursleys tho
@@ThisIsAbstract So you think all elf owners declare it to the ministry? What if an elf accompanies an underage member of the family outside the house and does magic?
@@limiv5272 sure why not? House elfs mostly serve "old Wizarding families" and stay in the same households for generation after generation, I dont think it's unfathomable that the ministry would know who has house elves. Harry inherits Kreacher as part of the property deed for Grimmauld Place so there's evidence of legal transfer of ownership going through the ministry. Not sure elves are often tasked with babysitting or accompanying minors. I guess Crouch sort of did with his adult son and Winky but that's almost more hostage situation. Either way they'd still know the family had house elves and since pure blood wizards are practically immune to trace punishments I see no reason why not.
@@ThisIsAbstract Yeah, your explanation works, and I guess it tracks for old pureblood families to be able to get away with their kid doing magic by blaming the slave.
Also if they can detect the hover charm from a house elf's magic and they can definitely detect apparition as evidenced later in Deathly Hallows, then why couldn't they detect Dobby aparating in and out of the house? So their sequence of events should have been apparition into the house. Shortly thereafter hover charm. Immediately after that someone aparating out of the house... And yet they just assumed it was Harry who cast the hover charm? Also when this could have been easily disproven via checking his wand... -Daven
oh, that kind of gets explained. House Elf magic to get around is different than normal apparating. That's how Dobby is able to get to Harry in Deathly Hallows at Malfoy Manor.
Fancy seeing you here.
@@storyperry2230 That would normally be true and would be more consistent EXCEPT then they wouldn't have detected the hover charm. The fact that they did means Elf magic triggers it too. -Daven
@@TodayIFoundOut I didn't expect this. Another channel I watch (well, mostly the other channels also hosted by Simon) commenting on a Super Carlin Bros video. 🤯
but random plot device?
Maybe the trace is a relatively recent measure, explaining Tom Riddle's unpunished early forays into evildom. And also the presence of an adult wizard could disable the trace which explains Hagrid, Tonks and Dumbledore doing magic unnoticed at the Dursleys
Tom Riddle blamed it on his uncle, who had previously been arrested and convicted in Azkaban, so I guess it never crossed the Ministry's collective mind that another wizard could've done the deed, even less an underage one.
@hga8418 but Tom Riddle murdering his parents wasn't noticed by the trace. They were found by the police. He modified his uncle's memory, and when the wizard wizarding authorities were finally alerted to the murder, they didn't investigate after his uncle confessed. Had nothing to do with the trace
Maybe they put a seven year charm on kids date of birth, to activate the trace? Just like when they put a taboo on Voldemort’s name? Since you can put a jinx or a charm on a name why can’t you do the same for a date of birth?
I like to think maybe it’s not the boats where they get the trace but at the sorting. We know from chamber and half blood that students can technically miss the modes of transport to the castle proper but any student who attends Hogwarts has to be sorted and that’s how applying the trace can account for any late students
I never even realised the Voldermort one, the Petunia talking about Lily practising magic at home always bothered me
I smell a lot of sh*t.
it could be that petunia complains about potions, herbology, runes and similar things. those wouldn't alert the ministry since no magic is cast.
that being said. I maintain my initial claim. that Lily was able to freely practice magic at a muggle home is a pile of sh*t.
Petunia said Lily was turning teacups into rats. I think that's advanced transfiguration, so it's possible this happened when Lily was in 6/7th year and already of age.
petunia said lily came home every summer doing magic so I agree
She could have brought home magical objects. Like joke wants etc. to please her parents by demonstrating some magic without breaking the law.
@@sebastiang7394 That's actually a very good point
For the life of me, I could never understand in the Prisoner of Azkaban (Movie) Harry was able to perform so many Lumos spells and not a peak but Dobby does in the same area as Harry and there is a whole warning there.
Well....the directors needed the movie to happen.. that's why 😂😂🤣😂🤣.
It's because that scene isn't in the book.
Part of the reason why I always say the movies go downhill from 3.
@@notatallboi2735 I still think 3 is great as a movie but it does break a lot of rules from the book:
It's an amazing movie but not an amazing adaptation if that makes sense
I always assumed he could use spells he was learning for homework since the trace reports the type of spell.
So, on the subject of the times Harry almost got expelled, that raises a question. What *does* happen if you get expelled from Hogwarts?
Do you just have to find another school, or are you blacklisted from all Wizarding schools? Are you just forbidden from using magic (which wouldn't work, right?) Are you obliviated (I know Hagrid and Newt weren't, but perhaps they were a unique case)? If a younger student is expelled, wouldn't that potentially make an Obscurus and cause more problems?
from pure statistics, 100% of the students who were expelled from Hogwarts were allowed by Dumbledore to continue to stay in the Hogwarts grounds as gamekeeper!
@@JuanMataCFC Newt Scamander was also expelled, though if Dumbledore had been headmaster (or at least had more pull at the school) at the time, he likely would have been allowed to stay on as the care of magical creatures teacher's aid or something so, while not an accurate statement, it's also not completely inaccurate either.
Well they snap your wand. They did that to Hagrid and tried to do that to Harry. Hagrid was also no longer supposed to practice magic, even when he was of age. The question of enrolling in a different school is interesting. I suppose it would depend on the school.
The issue of becoming an obscurial is interesting. I suppose it all depends on the specific of how they're created.
Me and my mother had this exact conversation
@@aarien_of_aurolyth
- Gets expelled
- Immediately promoted to paid staff member / teacher
Profit?
I always assumed each country had their own portal teleporting them to the Hogwarts train. Like the train not even being in London we just see them using the London portal.
Now that is a brilliant concept. I'm actually surprised SuperCarlin Brothers haven't come up with it because they are brainstormers, and should have. Fifty points to whichever house you're in. The thing is, JK Rowling is herself from Scotland, and Hogwarts is in Scotland, so you would think that if your idea were the correct one, and not just a clever way of filling an obvious inconsistency, she would have explained this by now. It's a simple explanation for her to put forward, and closes the inconsistency. If you ever tell her on Pottermore, make sure you get full credit for the idea. Save the date of your OP, because she will claim she planned that idea out all along, and you will be sitting there saying, "but I..." lol. I think your comment deserves way more likes than it received. They need to do a video on your theory. If they haven't. I slowly get through their stuff.
That does make sense. But what about the other schools? Though I suppose each school could have an area around them that determine whether you hogwarts or another school.
@@jenx5870 She isn't from Scotland... She is from England, and the south of England at that.
That makes so much sense! Such a great idea!
@@BigFatTrekkie each country obviously doesn’t have its own school or else you wouldn’t have Irish and Scottish kids going to the school as English kids. The schools are probably further apart like UK, Russia, Central Europe, North America
I’ve always assumed that the trace starts when you start school (11) and automatically breaks when you become an adult (17). It’s connected to the place and the wand, rather than the person.
The trace is connected to where the school children live, so if someone uses a bunch of magic in Hermione’s house that sets off the trace, but if someone uses magic in Draco’s house it doesn’t really matter because who knows if it’s Draco or Narcissa…
And if the wand registered to Harry uses magic in the middle of Surrey it sets off the trace, but if Blaise Zabini’s wand is used “it’s probably just his mother using it”. (The Ministry is not fair, obvious or in any way logical. Muggleborns and pure bloods doesn’t have the same opportunities.)
I’ve never considered the Tom Riddle parts however, but if everything he did was either at school, in a wizarding home or afte he turned 17 that might explain how the trace didn’t get set off?
And the fact that the Weasleys aren’t allowed to use magic at home until they’re grown probably has more to do with their mother than the actual trace…
I'll have to add tho, Its not a prejudice thing, its just that, if a muggleborn uses magic, its pretty easy to know who used magic on that house
@@patinhoquemoralogoali9280 unfortunately, it can very easily be both
I'm not sure if it ever specifies when the ministry started using the trace, but maybe because of Tom Riddle's actions, they started doing it?
My thought on it is the trace is used as an actual punishment rarely. Since people will need to practice at some point, most magics would probably be forgiven. Note that with the cake, he was firmly warned, but that was while the Dursleys had quests not in the family. But with blowing up his aunt, she was in the family, and Harry didn't even get warned that time. Even with Dudley, granted it was more the location in this instance for arguments sake, Fudge was literally just looking for a reason to discredit Dumbledore and Harry. And, with the exception of herminone, most young wizards would probably just ignore the rule at points.
And with Tom/Voldmort, I think it has to do with no one connecting him to being there. Yes, he does have the name Tom Riddle, but to most people, they were unaware he even knew his heiratage, only that he wasn't pure blood. And he most likely had a few spells to cover his presence, thus making it harder to find out he was there. Granted, there is no way to apply this without breaking some part of it if Voldemort killed him before he was 17, which he probably was
not the wand. they state in HBP that teenage voldy used magic in the gaunts house. he stupefyd morfin with his wand(voldy's) then then stole morfin's wand to murder the riddles so they could see the last spell used with morfins wand was the killing curse. voldy then modified morfins memory with his own wand(voldy's) to cover his tracks. the magic was also not detected by the MoM but the suspicious death's of the muggles was brought to their attention.
I was always under the impression that the presence of an adult witch or wizard caused the Trace to fail. As it explains all the situations where it did and don't happen, in Chamber, Dobby wouldn't count as an adult wizard and in Order, Mundungus had left his post so the only wizard in the area was Harry. It also explains the situation with Hagrid, with the Weasley's in year 4, the order collecting Harry and Dumbledore meeting Harry, as all involved Adult Witches and Wizards. And in the case of the Riddles, Morfin was an adult wizard and so it wouldn't have worked if he was near
I don't think your theory works. Morphin was unconscious in his hovel while Voldemort was committing murder across the valley, and if the trace doesn't alert the ministry when there's an adult around them the Order could've transported Harry using Side-Along-Apparition in DH.
In the Deathly Hallows, it's stated that the Ministry would be able to tell (because of the Trace) if they moved Harry using magical transportation e.g. apparition, so the presence of an adult probably doesn't cause the Trace to fail as such, but in the case of the Trace being triggered with an adult witch or wizard present, it might just get automatically written off. As for Voldemort killing the Riddles, he could have used an aging potion - with how vague the Trace is, I wouldn't be surprised if it just applies to physical age and can be fooled by various means.
@@thebuddercweeper or its possible the trace hadnt been created at that point in time and is why the trace was created
@@thebuddercweeper its less "automaticly written off" and more "its impossible for us to tell WHO cast it so we just gonna tactfully ignore it unless we have speciifc prove it was the underaged wizard
Thank you for talking about this. Everyone I talk to about this basically just say "it's just a book, they just didn't put it in there" like yeah I get they need to move the plot but these are the books of a century! It's good to analyze the books you love.
You’re a true scholar.
Ugh I hate the "it's just a book/movie" answer. If it doesn't make sense in the world that the story take place in then what's the point?
Yeah, "the author didn't think this thing through" is a horrible reason not to analyze/criticize books.
for someone who used a fountain pen in all of school, on your video snippet, you were holding the pen wrong... the feather was rotated way to much towards the left. The split in the feather has to point upwards, that way the pressure that releases the ink functions and its not so scratchy...just rotate at least a quarter turn to the right...lol
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who noticed lol I was like 🥴
It’s a fountain pen, not a feather quill… there are no feathers.
But you’re right, he’s using the pen incorrectly. He’s writing with the top on the nib upside down. The nib, (metal side) is the top and the feed (black plastic part) is the bottom. Write shiny side up :)
@@matthewscott3689 my mothertongue is german, in german we call the nib the feather.
@@gophersgirl That’s interesting, feder or feather. Füllfederhalter. Learn something new everyday, thank you for sharing, I hadn’t heard them referred as feather before :)
@@matthewscott3689 and ps the best part, german schools all mandate students learn long hand script with fountain pens, ball point pens were never allowed in my school-at least that how it was in the 90s... and Füller is the short version vs Füllfederhalter (not all words have 15+ letters, lol)
I have a good question.. The magical protection over the Dursleys house was only to remain active until he either turned 17 OR stopped calling it his home. When harry left with his belongings in the beginning of Prisoner, wasn’t he technically ditching his home with intent of finding a new place? Wouldn’t the protection on the house end there? Or did it do a takesies backsies when he went home at the end of the school year? I know he has protection himself but I remember reading something about the house too.
I think the stipulation of the no longer call that place home just means that the benefactor fully intends to never return to the house; I believe that this is why Dumbeldore hastily wrote to Petunia in the beginning of Order of the Phoenix, because they fully intended to kick him out until Dumbeldore reminded her of the protection that she was keeping alive by allowing him to live there. Don't forget it was Dumbeldore that invoked the blood bond by leaving Harry with Petunia so I have theory that because it was Marge who he was truly trying to get away from and not Petunia that's why it didn't break.
I think it has to be a mutual thing. In deathly hallows mad eye confirms with Harry that the Dursley's and him are separating that night with the full understanding that they will never live together again. In Prisonor of Azkaban Harry just leaves. It wasn't mutual, Vernon even tells Harry to come back and fix Marge but he refuses. In order of the phoenix when Vernon tries to kick Harry out he's not expecting it and it wasn't mutual either.
I was under the impression the protection at 4 Privet drive existed because it was the home of the only surviving relatives of Lily Potter
@@musicalcacti yes…
i think deep down he knew that he would return and thats why the trace did not break
In the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban (movie, I don't think it was in the book), we start with Harry practicing Lumos Maxima. He doesn't seem worried about underage wizardry in this case. Are perhaps some allowances for practicing innocuous spells at home?
yes it was only in the movie and only in the pre scene of the actual movie.
so its canon value is litterly negative, which is worse then the canon value of the cursed child.
In the book, he was doing his History of Magic homework, under the blankets and with a flashlight, the thing the Brits call a torch.
You’re correct. Harry WAS doing Hogwarts Homework but he wasn’t casting spells (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong cause I haven’t read the books for some time)
@@crystallotus3422 I have the text of all 7 books on my computer. I look these things up before I post them.
Perfect then!
Isn't the other issue that children perform magic by accident, does that mean that everytime a child just does something by accident the ministry is informed and has to send people out, to find out a kid has just moved a mug.
Edit : Or what about if they have a sibling of which one is school age and the other is not. When the young one does magic the ministry would pick up that magic had been performed in the 11 - 17 year olds home.
Afaik, until they are school age, they are much less closely monitored, and only get in troble in extremely specific circumstances
@@JonathanMandrake Exactly, until they start schooling and get their wands magic use by kids doesn't exactly count.
Additionally in a regular wizarding house (such as the Weasley household, Malfoy household, Snape household, etc) they can't tell who cast the magic so technically students can practice/use magic and is reliant on the parents enforcing the rules about not using magic.
@@JonathanMandrake what about if they have a sibling of which one is school age and the other is not. When the young one does magic the ministry would pick up that magic had been performed in the 11 - 17 year olds home.
magic is ignored until visit to tell of magic world and quill of acceptance tells who is magic sibling
@@steventaylor226 quill of acceptance happens after the first piece of magic
7:40 Here’s what _actually_ happened: “Oh, my dear boy, we’re not going to punish you for a little thing like that!“ cried Fudge, waving his crumpet impatiently. “It was an accident! We don’t send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!“
But this didn’t tally at all with Harry’s past dealings with the Ministry of Magic.
“Last year, I got an official warning just because a house-elf smashed a pudding in my uncle’s house!” he told Fudge, frowning. “The Ministry of Magic said I’d be expelled from Hogwarts if there was any more magic there!”
Unless Harry’s eyes were deceiving him, Fudge was suddenly looking awkward.
“Circumstances change, Harry.… We have to take into account…in the present climate…Surely you don’t _want_ to be expelled?“ (Prisoner of Azkaban, Actual Publication, Page 45) All things considered, pretty good impression, Ben. Ten points to Slytherin!
Ok so it's been a long while since I've read the books or seen the movies, so feel free to correct me if this theory has any flaws, but the only circumstance that I can think of going on in book 3 that might have an effect on the Ministry's decision is... Sirius escaping? In which case, it would make perfect sense why the Ministry would be willing to look the other way just this once-- given that they weren't aware that Sirius was innocent, the logic was probably that it'd be better for Harry to be at school, where he could be (or at least should be) protected, versus out in the world with a dangerous convict on the loose.
@@0XBlondie96X0 this is exactly why and I thought it was super obvious. For the first time in a century someone escapes from Azkaban, the Ministry has some better to do than to follow up on Trace calls and keeping all children safe at Hogwarts is much more important
@@0XBlondie96X0 dont forget they was afraid sirus was going to attempt to murder harry. aslo in book 5 during the official hearing about harrys use of magic to defend himself from the dementors its mentioned that the minestry was understanding about what happend there. on the thing that happend during book two nothing was provoking harry, no one was in danger or anything like that. but the second time was different.
Jeez I think that was the longest intro I’ve ever seen on UA-cam. Video starts for real at 4:00 for those who want to know.
7:21 Even at St. Mungo’s there were children brought in who had accidentally casted spells. Plus, before Harry even went to Hogwarts he made the glass of an enclosure disappear.
15:00 i think the trace very much could be a natural thing that the ministry is just tapping into, and its not that nature is accounting for the laws but that the laws are based on the nature.
Personally, I never thought of the trace as something that gets put onto them, but more of a monitoring system that sees something inherently in all young witch/wizards.
I like the idea of the trace being put on them when they first go to school but it creates another issue. If it starts when you start school why does it break at 17 instead of at graduation? It seems like it would be so much easier to have it end on a set day for everyone in that class and after your education was complete. As a bonus if it only broke when you graduate anyone expelled would stay under the trace so they could make sure they weren’t using magic like Hagrid did.
It’s like drinking. Here in my country people can buy alcohol at the age of 18, it doesn’t matter if you’re at school or not. It wouldn’t make sense if the Ministry of Magic made all students wait until their 7th year of school was over to allow teenagers to perform magic.
Maybe the trace is like that barrier that Dumbledore used in Goblet of Fire. Does have some exact value in place.
Well 7th year is optional technically, so having it tied to graduation doesn't quite work.
@@TiMoThY211991 I didn't think of this because of the differences from country to country and it is a very good point. I have seen it argued that 6th and 7th years aren't required and you could leave after NEWTs if you wanted but i have never seen a definite answer on that. So let me change that to when they complete NEWTs.
I want to stick to the education requirement because it feels more accurate than an age. You wouldn't want a lawyer that didn't pass the bar representing you in court would you? Or a paramedic that isn't certified in CPR yet?
@@indiansfan444444 It's more like drinking, it's not a qualification, it's something everyone has the right to do so long as they are old enough. There is the exception of if someone is expelled, and I still can't quite figure out why they would have the right to snap your wand in half.
I think the only part that truly makes no sense is in book 5. If the theory about the lake is true then all the Gaunt stuff and Harry's early magic are explained. And you could argue that when Arthur and Dumbledore visit Privet Drive they have permission from the Ministry to do magic. Fudge lets Harry off the hook in book 3 either because it was an accident or because he was relieved that Sirius hadn't killed him before the ministry found him.
In book 5 though, the ministry is ACTIVELY LOOKING for a reason to expell Harry and literally like 3 days after punishing him for fighting dementors, they should've detected lumos, Tonks's cleaning spells, and Moody's disillusionment charm. You can't tell me the Order of the Phoenix that shouldn't even exist has permission from the ministry.
if not relieved on harry safe he would be charged with marges injury he is meant to be in control of magic by now
It's not a crime for adult witches and wizards to visit Harry or to do magic around him when not seen by muggles [Not even the Duresleys were around to see anything]. If Fudge had tried to get Harry expelled again, he'd have his own Aurors testifying that it was them who performed the spells and offering up their wands for examination. He'd never get a conviction. I think Fudge was informed they were going to be there, knew it was a lost cause and therefore let it go.
Why even bother with the dementors? Umbridge could have just gone down there without telling anyone, hexed Dudley a couple of times when nobody is watching, then claimed it must have been Harry because who else would be in Little Whinging hexing Dudley.
The scheme with the dementors is as needlessly complicated as if say, someone assumed another's identity and rigged an entire year long tournament just to trick a kid into grabbing a portkey.
It was clearly about Sirius not finding Harry because Fudge pointed out the Aunt Marge incident during Harry's hearing in Order of the Phoenix. Dumbledore had to remind Fudge that he didn't press charges.
The whole incident is about Fudge's bias towards Harry. He let him off out of concern that a killer was coming, and two years later when he was trying to discredit Harry's claims about Voldemort's return, he finally showed his anger of what happened to Marge.
the one caveat that might explain the discrepancy in book 5 is that the Order has several members in prominent positions at the ministry. Tonks and Kingsley are Aurors (and moody a retired but well respected Auror), Mr. Weasley actually worked closely with the department that manages the Trace in his job of tracking down unauthorized uses of magic on muggle items, and the Head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement Amelia Bones (Susan's aunt, who is the judge that acts very supportive of Harry in his hearing and is more impressed with his Patronus then anything else), while not a member of the Order herself, is the sister of OotP member and hero Edgar Bones (who was murdered with his entire family and his and Amelia's parents by Death Eaters during Voldemort's first war), and so probably knows about the order and may have given them some "unofficial aid".
Harry practicing Lumos Maxima is also never punished.
You know I just realized since we're talking about the trace and statute of secrecy and Muggleborns being not favored by this a question came to me about the statute and muggle wizard weddings. How does the process of getting a muggle partner as a wizard work? Do you have to register it to the ministry? Does the ministry keep tabs on the muggle partner so he or she doesn't reveal to anyone else about magic? What happens during a divorce? Is the partner just Obliviated so they can forget magic? Food for thought
16:28 well on this one i think that it probably is allowed to cast spells on the train like i mean whatever ron did sure didn't turn the rat golden but it definitely did something and let's not forget about malfoy stunning Harry
Enchanted vehicle. You can use all the magic you want on the train, nothing will happen.
"They made the most of the last few hours in which they were allowed to do magic before the holidays." - Chamber of Secrets.
Or Ginny's Bat Bogie hex
magic was permitted on train home kids make use of last hours of use magic chamber of secrets Malfoy stunning harry not that crime , safe enough place for magic
@@steventaylor226 that's literally what i was saying
Maybe the trace only activates when a child gets their wand? That would at least explain the Hagrid situation
and as for Dobbie and Aunt Marge situation, The ministry wasn't after Harry, on top of him being a celebrity, they just let it all slide
That's my theory. I feel like maybe the spell is put on Ollivander's wands, and maybe it only activates when it connects with Hogwarts' Wards. And not sure how it would know when to break though. That would be something to figure out.
But Hermione probably had her wand when practicing the spells, as muggle borns wouldn't know the spells without spell books and only learns about that stuff after getting hogwarts letter, and yet she doesn't get threatened (to our knowledge). Though, HP has a lot of plot holes
@@CAMnami that's the point. She practiced before she ever got to Hogwarts, which means the spell could have been activated by her wand crossing the wards. Which could explain why they take first years across the lake.
@@Whyteroze28 brilliant! That would very well explain it!
My guess with when the spell breaks, is that the Ministry is a bureaucracy, they could very well remotely dispell it when they become 17, and they purposefully did not get rid of the trace on Harry.
And when Harry was using magic on his 17th birthday, the ministry was probably ignoring it so it would not be revealed to Harry the trace was still active.
@@CAMnami She might have been doing them on the train
Moody: "If you sneeze, the Ministry will know who wipes your nose." Except the trace only lets them know magic was done in the general area of an underage wizard. Yeah, the "trace" was very poorly thought out if we are to believe that JK intended it to be a real thing. *I* think it's just a rouse. It's a boogeyman story to scare children into not doing magic. The ministry will have some ability to monitor magic use, and will wherever possible enforce the law to make it seem like the trace exists, but I'm pretty sure it's not real.
The way to think about wizarding currencies is this imagine if 17 Knuts is 1p, 29 Sickles is 50p and a Galleon is £1 (or what ever the equivalent is in the the country you come from), it takes alot of mental arithmetic to work out if you aren't used to it but if you are born into this world it's second Nature
Theory: Perhaps when Tom Riddle killed the muggles, the ministry didn't use the trace? It was 50 years before after all, so maybe the rule hadn't been pt in place yet, or maybe the rules of the trace broke at an earlier age in those days. Just a thought.
Dumbledoor says they did detect it, but with a known muggle hater with the wand..and a confession..yea
Part of me wonders if maybe when he made the first Horcrux his Trace broke. But I don't remember if that was before or after he killed the Riddles.
He made the Horcrux before, due to his birthday. Tom was born end of December, meaning he’s a year older than his school year (I.E, Harry’s age directly reflects his school year) so he would’ve been 16 during the summer before his 6th year. And the diary held a “16 year old Riddle”. And it is heavily implied that the death of Myrtle happened towards the end of the school year
The ministry started putting the trace on kids around about 1875. And the riddle murders happened around the 1940s.
Considering Tom Riddle is supposed to be a genius and a prodigy with magic, it is possible he just found or invented a way to deactivate trace at will.
People do all sort of things to get out of house arrest, some of them successfully.
I like the boat theory.
As for Hermione casting spells, I believe the first time they get a note saying they can't do magic at home is at the end of the year.
It's the only time we get to know about this on the book.
So then the note itself might be the trace? A magical contract. Up until they receive the note, they're unaware that they can't perform magic while away from Hogwarts, now they do. Those from magical families do, but are held in check only by their parents anyway. It appears the trace isn't tied to the underage wizard themselves, but to their immediate surroundings where they are supposed to be (their home). Harry doesn't get in trouble for magic performed around him while at The Burrows. I was agreeing with the boat ride until I saw your comment. Now, I think the boat ride is just a way to get the first years there in a more peaceful way, away from the rest of the rowdy upperclassmen. It also gives them a full, breathtaking view of the castle. I think that the trace is, in fact placed upon them when they read and understand that they aren't allowed to perform underaged magic outside of school grounds. Otherwise, why not just tell them at the end of the year during announcements? Magical contracts were a big theme in the book.
@@jenx5870 I agree with you on this, I think since they know where every wizard lives having the charm there makes more sense. That could also be why they didn't detect Tom Riddle killing his father and grandparents even tho he was underage.
Also funny thing boat ride is just a way to get the first years there in a more peaceful way, except when the weather is terrible and they almost drown XDD
The only one I can actually defend is Hagrid on the rock. Harry has no idea that he's a wizard, has no wand, hasn't been sorted.
Hagrid is "above age". So I figure there is no trace on anyone at the rock.
How does that defend it? The fact still exists that magic was used in Harry's proximity, and that's all that is required. The trace reports when spells or certain types of magic is used in proximity to an underage witch/wizard, it doesn't after if the witch/wizard is unaware of the fact that they are, have a wand or are sorted. If they have the trace, they are underage, and magic is used near them, it would be reported. Since it's unlikely that Harry at this point would know how to give Dudley a tail, or light the fireplace, the ministry should have been able to deduce it must have been Hagrid or whoever had went there. The only explanation that works in this case is that Harry doesn't have the trace yet. Any other explanation falls apart or leads to further contradictions.
Hagrid isn't technically allowed to do magic
nah, Hagrid is not supposed to have a wand at this point, he wasn't cleared of being the Chamber of Secrets opener until almost 2yrs after he gave Harry his Hogwarts letter.
that's correct. even if the ministry could detect magic there, there's no wizard with the trace on it.
it still doesn't justify that magic was performed in front of muggles, but that has nothing to do with the trace. only with keeping the statute of secrecy. and the dursley are already aware of magic so there would be no need to take action because of that.
if I remember right, Hagrid got permision to use magic to deliver the letter to harry. how did he got that permision is another plot hole but it would explain why nobody took action against hagrid.
Hagrid isn't *supposed* to use magic but he is over 17. My theory is any adult wizard in proximity nullifies the trace. Hagrid would still count as an adult wizard even though he was expelled
Does anyone believe that Mundungus spent weeks watching Harry in Order of the Phoenix and e didn't use magic? We literally know he disoperates from the other side of the road on a muggle area, and that didn't trigger the trace🤔
That's a good point. Maybe they're assuming Harry wouldn't know how to apparate so the magic isn't blamed on him? Or maybe he was far enough away? We're never given a hard limit for what counts as 'around an underage witch or wizard'
Disapparates*
I think he would have been at such a distance that it wouldn't be counted even if it did technically trigger the trace. We know there are witches and wizards around little winging because of several lines in the philosopher's stone about Harry and the Dursleys meeting weird people.
@@thebuddercweeper Witches and wizards can move from one side of the country to the other in a split second, meeting those people doesn't mean they live in the area. We're also directly told there aren't any other magical people in Harry's area during his hearing in front of the Wizengamot:
“Arabella Doreen Figg,” said Mrs. Figg in her quavery voice.
“And who exactly are you?” said Fudge, in a bored and lofty voice.
“I’m a resident of Little Whinging, close to where Harry Potter lives,” said Mrs. Figg.
“We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter,” said Madam Bones at once. “That situation has always been closely monitored, given … given past events.”
“I’m a Squib,” said Mrs. Figg. “So you wouldn’t have me registered, would you?”
@@thebuddercweeper @Apple Pi I believe he triggered a car alarm that made Harry spring up with his wand out from where he was hiding. The ministry wouldn't have known about the Order following Harry because Dumbledore doesn't trust them. They did meet wizards but I don't think a specific location was mentioned. What I know for sure was that it wasn't in Privet Drive itself.
About this at 6:30 it wouldn’t be as big in Britain because we get 5-6 weeks off at summer so we have less chance to forget what we learns the previous year
About the quidditch thing mentioned at the start, I saw a theory that the reason catching the snitch gets so many points is because back when quidditch first became a sport, broom technology was much less advanced, so catching the snitch was significantly harder. We know that the longest quidditch match was 3 MONTHS, and overall, quidditch matches used to be much longer, giving the teams much more time to rack up points from scoring in the hoops. This means that catching the snitch wouldn’t actually have as big of an effect on the scores. However, when brooms became faster and faster, catching the snitch became easier, which is where we land in Harry’s time, where if you catch the snitch you’re team is basically guaranteed to win because there simply wasn’t enough time to score enough points in the hoop to make a big enough difference.
The wand chooses the wizard, so giving your wand to your kids would likely just lead to a lot of frustration. Just take them to a secluded area, cast some spells on the perimeter, and let them practice with their own wands. The Ministry isn't in a hurry to show up even if they detect the Avada Kedavra being cast around a minor [like when Voldemort murdered his father and grandparents], so your chances of being caught are basically zero.
Also want to point out that prior incantato doesn't tell you when a spell was cast, so you can claim the spells were done at school before end of term.
I don’t think the trace existed when Tom riddle went, and that’s why it didn’t alert the ministry. The trace came after that event, probably during the 1st wizard war so they could find wizards threatening a child, which also explains why it only tracks the magic around them, not just the magic they preform.
It's an interesting theory. But in HBP, when Harry says 'But Riddle was underage! The ministry can detect underage magic!', Dumlbedore replies 'They can detect magic yes, but not its perpetrator', rather than replying 'The trace wasn't a thing back then'.
Also, if Dobby’s magic was picked up when he dropped the cake on the ladies head, why didn’t it detect the magic used to disapparate in and out of the house?
same reason that he can apparate and dissapparate at hogwarts. his magic is different. he must be using a spell he knows will be detected to move the cake but his apparateing abilities are different enough to not be detected.
Elf magic works differently he's able to apperate in and out of places he's not meant to so I reckon he manipulation his magic in order for it to be triggered as 'harry doing it ' as a way to forcefully stop harry from going back to Hogwarts
i'm very late to this, (and don't yet know if this was revisited in a later video) but i'd think it might make more sense for the Trace to be some kind of overarching magical oath that applies to all genetic wizards/witches in-universe rather than being something manually-applied to each individual
What if a dark wizard killed a muggle outside of a muggle born house, with the killing curse...
I can see voldimort doing that just for fun
This may just be me speculating. Was the trace even in place when Tom killed his relatives? And is it possible that said event may be the reason it was put into place?
I thought that too. Did the ministry ever find out or acknowledge that it was Riddle, though? Or did they never look into it again after they blamed Morfin?
Harry asks about this after he views the memory and Dumbledore doesn't say the trace was not yet in place but rather that the trace doesn't identify who actually cast the spells.
Si ese asesinato paso en el veranos de 1943 cuando Tom tenía 16 Años
@@DanielPschaida But who else could it have been? Was there someone he blamed it on?
@@jessicasnow9007 Morfin Gaunt iirc
I always assumed the trace came with the note at the end of the year (the one warning the children not to use magic during the summer)
According to Fred (or George), they hand out this note every year.
I'm kinda suprised an age potion wasn't brought up. Perhaps tom riddle used an age potion which temporarily disabled the trace?
I’ve read a lot of theories that say that the only thing you need to do to break the trace is to use a temporary ageing potion! That would make it a bit too obvious and easy, but it’s a great theory. (And it’s probably not that easy to brew or buy that potion, so it might not be as easy as it sounds.)
I was wondering if the age line in Goblet of fire didn't detect age, but the presence of the trace
@@wasatchwizard4770 Personally I believe that it just detects your age and checks whether you have an aging potion in your body, but that's a viable thoery.
"Why is the Snitch worth so many points?" I don't know if you ever read Quidditch through the Ages, but it actually gives some backstory behind that.
Regarding the trace not working on adults: the human body goes through some changes during puberty, maybe there's some changes in a wizard's body that disables the trace in adults and someone just decided to use it for a specific purpose (tracking underage magic)
Maybe there are other spells that only work on either on people under 17, or only on those older but not both. Would be an interesting effect to study.
People develop at different rates. The trace is explicitly linked to the 17th birthday.
I wonder of the trace doesn't hold on Voldemort after his soul rips apart, after he kills Moaning Murtle and creates the first horcrux.
So you can get away with breaking the law by committing murder? Sounds like the kind of brilliant system the ministry would use lol
This is what I wondered.
Also, why does Dobby casting a levitation charm show up but Dobby disapparating not?
Perhaps because the Ministry knows that Harry wouldn’t be able to do it. They only learn how to apparate at the age of 15/16 (in their 6th year). When Dobby comes to the house, Harry is still going to his second year.
@@tinagoldsteinscamander so why wasnt his name cleared?
@@thorthewolf8801 In the fifth year? It was. Harry is cleared of all charges.
well there clearly has to be some form of Trace on you from birth because the Book of Admittance wont let the Quill of Acceptance write a name until sufficient proof of magical ability is shown. So they must have some way of tracking magical powers from children
I’ve thought of that more as a magical things that just “knows” if someone has magic, rather than a trace on all children born in the world. Like a magic pen/book that writes the name of every child in Britain that uses magic for the first time.
This headcannon could explain all the trace related plotholes, if you don´t want them to exists:
Adult "registered" wizards, i.e. wizards that HAD the trace, when they were children, get some kind of anti-trace when they come of age. Now their magic doesn´t get detected by a young wizards trace in their vicinity anymore. With this explanation in mind, magic cast by magical creatures would still get detected by a nearby trace. In combination with the theory, that the trace is placed on first year students by their schools, this would explain everything i think.
One little update: This only works, if you assume, that the trace is "new" or that Voldemort, when he still was called Tom Riddle, actually found a way to remove it, before coming off age, as mentioned in the video.
I have a theory for you about the trace. It's 'places' when the name is recorded in a book, but doesn't become 'legally binding' until the sorting ceremony, and maybe it becomes more reactive the stronger the skill. I think they did know about Tom Riddles actions in the orphanage, Dumbledore sure seemed to. I suggest that because the book records when a child is born and the trace is tied to a birthday, if it was from the boat ride or any other first year thing there's no real way to account for different ages and birthdays.
I believe the trace is on the wand, with detection on the dursleys and similar homes being a separate form of detection around the home, thus explaining hagred and voldemort not being detected but accidental magic and dobby being so, when at the dursleys.
Now that I think about it, Voldemort and his Death Eaters did a lot of magic, including unforgivables, around an underage Harry at the cemetery in Little Hangleton. Surely that could've been evidence for what Harry told Fudge had happened there at the end of GoF. I suppose Fudge intentionally avoided looking into it, and the whole ministry just went with it.
in fact, harry himself casts a spell to duel voldemort. that's why we discover that the wands are siblings and can't harm each other.
so here is the thing. Fudge wants to get rid of Harry and Harry weeks ago performed underage magic on a muggle area. what a nice way to expell harry.
but that would be bad for the plot. let's look the other side.
@@WilliamWizer I think it would be difficult to prove it was Harry who cast Expelliarmus in the cemetary that day. Remember, they can only detect the underage magic, not who did it, and prior incantato doesn't give an exact time a spell was performed, just a kind of log of the recent spells. Nobody would be able to prove Harry didn't cast that spell while still in the maze.
@@limiv5272 The dark answer is that if Fudge/The Ministry did look into it, they would have likely realized they'd be implicating some influential, rich, and powerful Wizards, some of whom were also Ministry officials. Covering the whole thing up by accusing Potter of fabricating it kills two birds with one stone, and prevents a lot of awkward public investigations. In this case, it's not just about pretending that everything was fine and Voldemort hadn't returned, but about the scandal of everyone involved if the event is acknowledged.
@@JosephDavies That absolutely tracks with everything, good thinking
@@limiv5272 remember that the trace can detect where you are when you cast, so it can be proven that harry was at the cementery when the spell was cast and, being a muggle area, no other wizards where there.
it's the same thing that happened at the second book. harry was the only wizard at the house so it had to be him. no need to prior incantato.
* I think actually, the Trace *does* track the person's wand. It detects in what household magic has been used, and then finds the wand closest to where this magic has been done.
* Dobby, however, being a house elf that can use magic at his own free will, has no wand, hence Harry being given the warning, as he is the only person in the household that could feasibly have done this.
* Also, I don't think things like magical sweets or products apply, hence Fred and George not getting warnings for the Toffee or for creating the Snackboxes in their room, as they aren't actually performing magic, its more of a byproduct of the creations.
* Also, it makes complete sense for the Trace to only really affect the houses of muggleborns and purebloods or halfbloods living in a muggle-only home, as it's specifically protecting muggles from discovering magic. In a house that has wizards in it, that's not so much of an issue.
In Hagrid's defense, spelling is harder than money math.
You forgot when harry was at his house and used Lumos to read in his room, and Nox to make his wand dark again when daddy Dudley burst in to see any shenanigans.
He wasn’t 17, had already been well past his first year, and no one was around.
Now THAT is a double whammy!!
I always assumed they didn’t enforce it until they had been at Hogwarts a day because until that point they hadn’t been officially told not to do magic outside school. For everything else though I got nothing.
Just a thing. The magic being in the presence of muggles is a main point of Harry being expelled, and also any time that he had any trouble at all, muggles seeing it was a huge reason.
One love ❤️ Ben rocks
Just one love? Why so little?
You can definitely tell jkr was figuring things out as she went along rather than planning her world building in advance
Like howlers existing in the second book, when it would have been the best option for informing Harry about his acceptance to hogwarts instead of sending all of the letters in existence.
@@TheNinthGeneration1 omg I never thought of that!!! but then haggard wud still be needed cuz the Dursleys Wundt just drop him and how wud he even get his stuff from dragon alley
Just thinking about the 3rd film where Harry uses lumos in the first few seconds into the film 😂
Ben, theory idea in the Deathly hallows after harry gets bit by Nagini Hermione puts dittany on the wound and it heals so wouldn't snape have dittany with him at all times?
New theory: Voldemort didn’t set off the trace because he had been using time turners during his time at hogwarts. This also explains how he was able to learn so much so fast while also building up his cult following. After 4-6 years of time turning he has aged significantly, and by the time he did the murders he was already 17 years old
Good idea
Does no fit the story. Only a few even knew of time turners. Must have special permits Luke Hermonie. Tom is more if a back alley guy who twists things to his will.
@@hackman669 Tom was heavily respected, and a Head Boy. He could've totally earned clearance if he just took a few extra classes.
I don't know much about time turners and how they work (actually I don't know anything about them besides the fact that they can be used to travel back in time) but couldn't Voldemort just somehow use a time turner to avoid what happens to him at Godric's Hollow when he went to kill Harry? I don't know, I honestly don't know anything about that. Haven't read the books.
Can you make a theory on why Cho was still at school in the 7th book when she was supposed to have graduated? I’m so confused why is she still there???? Also love your videos!!!!
Also in Order of the Phoenix she talks to Harry about the first time they played Quidditch against each other "in the third year" when it was actually her fourth. So to make that work, I suppose she was so talented she skipped a year in the beginning and then Cedric's death threw her out of the loop so badly she had to repeat two years as a consequence.
she isn't she arrives throu the portrait
She was informed that Harry is at Hogwarts by the members of the DA still attending Hogwarts, same as many other characters who showed up at the same time. The coins still worked, and those who weren't still carrying theirs were alerted by those who did. I think this is pretty straightforward.
Or, she might’ve simply said third year because she’s talking to him about his third year
People forget that in the order of the phoenix book, Fudge was trying to throw Harry under the bus because he ignored Dumbledore's advice in the return of Voldemort. He tried to convince the Wizarding world that he wasn't back and in the book his only reason that he did it was because he just wanted to keep the position.
Precisely! In the third book we see a totally different situation, because Fudge was trying to avoid the shame of not being able to capture Sirius and also “””protecting””” Harry.
About the Snitch thing @1:00 in the books they do mention that the Snitch is worth 150 points, but that you can still lose if the other team is on point. I can’t remember if it was hufflepuff or slytherin that one off points after the other team caught the snitch ending the game, which is why Wood mentions to not catch the snitch until they are at least 20 points up
1:47 The word I like to use is "Whimsical".
honestly think this word was a sort of touchstone for the author when creating the world.
Things don't need to be sensible, in fact it's often better if they aren't.
It sometimes borders on the silly but not quite over the line is where the worldbuilding really shines.
There’s also that time when the trace should have detected all the magic used in the graveyard when Voldemort came back Including the killing curse.
That was in the school year
@@marcelk329 But it was in Little Hangleton... and this Town is in England, not Scotland, way to far away from Hogwarts
@@hordenallimaniafan2565 It wouldn’t really surprise me if the Ministry wrote the law as “children are free to use magic during the school year” rather than “children are free to use magic at school grounds” 😂
@@Cascadeis I think they're also using magic when they're visiting the village, which happens during the school year but not on school grounds.
Free to use magic but I doubt it stops tracing them during the school year. They're just not punished. And it can tell what spell was used because harry gets in trouble specifically for a hover charm. If they could tell what magic was used at Harry's house they should have been able to tell that unforgivable curses were used in the graveyard.
When the Aurors arrive for Harry and use magic, I assume the ministry wouldn't have minded because I'm sure Fudge would have loved to ridicule Harry for the case they already, instead of straight up just expelling him then and there. Also, I believe it was Dumbledore who convinced the ministry to put on the trial. My best guess is Fudge was too afraid of what Dumbledore would do if they filed yet another crime.
I actually think, that the fact, that muggle borns are "suffering" more from the trace is a good thing. Because when there is no one around that can fix things or help when a spell goes wrong it's much more dangerous to practice spells.
I mean, students even get feathers to explode while practicing wingardium leviosa.
Good point! Also, pure bloods have probably been raised practicing magic in some form since birth, or at least having seen their family do magic, whereas the muggleborns have no reference points at all.
(Imagine having lived with a family that bakes bread at home all your life and then being told to bake yourself - compared to never having seen anyone bake and then trying to bake bread on your own. 🤷🏽♀️)
But that's only in the movies. That doesn't happen in the books.
Harry was taken out of the maze and into the graveyard, which is off school grounds, so why couldn’t they use the trace on him to see he was in the graveyard like he said and Avada kedavra was used (multiple times) there around him as an underage wizard, as well as all the other magic that was used there, to corroborate the series of events that Harry says? I know Fudge didn’t want to believe Harry without actual physical evidence but that would be pretty damning that at least all events Harry stated occurred so the likelihood that hes just lying about Voldemort is low
My headcanon for the Trace is that it's applied and renewed every year through the notes that are handed out before they get on the train home.
"I always hope they'll forget to give us these!" Why do the twins hope that, when they and their parents clearly already know? Because then they could do magic outside their magical house as well as within!
This would be an easy way for Tom Riddle and other students to escape the Trace, just by not taking the note somehow.
There are still inconsistencies at Privet Drive, of course. It could be that it should have always been blocked by the blood protections, but Dobby was able to deliberately mimic the signal. It could be that inflating Marge wasn't detected by the Trace, but by the local police reports which were watched by wizards.
It could be that Harry's Patronus actually wasn't detected, but Umbridge was watching and sent the report herself. It seems significant to me that the Lumos Harry cast right before that _wasn't_ in the report.
I always just assumed Tom riddle was strong enough to remove the trace. It makes sense that it doesn't happen again because Dumbledore is the only other wizard that was as powerful. Voldemort was exceptional, youre obviously not going to set laws based on someone who is literally one of one and yet to have been born. And there is no trace on kids that aren't in school
They made a mistake in the video. In deathly hallows it shows that the murders were pinned on Voldemort‘s uncle Morphin gaunt who was there at the time and was a known Muggle hater and a criminal. Voldemort modified Morfin’s memory to confess.
@@Rimsha4peace I need to watch it back but what is actually said is that he stunned his uncle then went to the muggle house and killed them before returning to modify his memory and take the ring. Meaning it should have still be on riddle since he was underage with the trace still on him. It would automatically detect the spell he cast since he's an underage wizard using magic in the vicinity of muggles. It would have made more since if he used the imperius curse on morfin to go do it and then modified his memory when he returned to forget riddle made him do it. Because underage magic doesn't register in Wizarding homes.
1) The Trace only becomes active after a child has started at Hogwarts, so Hagrid's magic would not have been detected. And now I'm at the point of the video where you suggest that, so...yup, alrighty, I feel dumb now. This likely also applies to magical law. Children get off scot-free until they reach Hogwarts.
2) The solution seems clear: the Trace also automatically detects any witches or wizards near the teenager in question (but not their identity, perhaps?). House-elves (naturally) don't count. If there's an adult witch/wizard nearby, the Trace doesn't alert the Ministry. This means that if Draco is alone at home, for example, and he casts a spell, he still gets caught.
3) Voldemort is a clever fellow. I'm sure he'd work out how to bypass the Trace.
between Riddle and Lily Both apparently using magic during the summers I can't help wonder if in times of war the rules on the trace aren't loosened
Given how deep the Ministry was in Lucious’ pocket I don’t think Draco would get into too much trouble
So yes the trace makes no sense but at the same time, kinda does? You just really have to look at what is going on in each year. Chamber of Secrets like you said, Dobby can just leave and since a house elf wouldn't typically be in a muggle home, the ministry would just think it's harry and gave him the warning. Prizoner of Azkaban however I like to think had Sirius NOT escaped Azkaban Harry probably would have suffered more consequences. Given they thought Sirius would be after Harry, it was safer to just ignore the use of underage magic and keep him at Hogwarts safe (though, it ended up not being that safe). In Order of the Phoenix, the ministry is AGAINST Harry and Dumbledore because they refuse to believe Voldemort is back. It would make sense they would want to get Harry out of school as to not speak "lies" They don't trust him so they would find any excuse to get Harry out. Even Dumbledore asked since when do they hold a whole criminal trial for a bit of underage magic? The instance of the Weasleys coming in Goblet of Fire, I'm almost certain they had permission to set up the floo network temporarily to pick up Harry, otherwise how did it get set up in the first place? So there were adult wizards of age they knew about so any spells cast would probably be overlooked, and I'm also sure Arthur would have mentioned what happened and why he needed to use cleaning spells. The flying car you already answered. The Hut on the rock. That's easy. Harry wasn't actually a student yet therefore couldn't be expelled. It's known that pure/half blood wizards and witches who haven't started school tend to get away with magic because they can't control it. It's generally up to the parents to try and discipline the kids, but once they start school and learn to control it, that's when the ministry can step in. (Except muggle borns the parents can't help because they don't know). This also goes to something you mention toward the end about Hermione openly admitting she did magic, or young Tom Riddle or Harry using magic knowingly or not. There are theorys the trace is placed on them when boarding the hogwarts express, (though the boats would make more sense if thats the case) but then again it is never fully explained if they are born with the trace, or it is placed upon them. Since it breaks the moment they turn 17 without needing it removed, it would make sense that they are just born with it. Again with Order of the Phoenix, I mean Harry is already on trial because of the dementor attack and they want to get rid of him, but given it didn't come up on his trial about those spells, it could very well be Tonks and the other aurors could have arranged this, but given the ministry didn't believe in Voldemort's return they probably found some kind of work around. Could be who ever was on duty in that department work with the order and just didn't report it. Half Blood Prince, probably Dumbledore set something up, given now the ministry knows about Voldemort and wants Harry safe again. Deathly Hallows, obviously they didn't want to apparate and they took the non-traceable methods because the order felt the Mistry had been infiltrated by Voldemort's followers and having Harry with a trace would have let the death eaters know and trace him had they used apparition. Don't forget they didn't know the death eaters would be in the sky waiting, or that the ministry would fall shortly after and give away the location Harry was brought to anyway. In terms of Voldemort killing the Riddles...that I have no actual explanation for. That is a time where it doesn't make sense.
I loved your comment.
About Tom, maybe he wasn’t caught because his uncle, who was an adult, was there. If we remember the story, Voldemort talks to Morfin, does something to him, goes to the Riddles’ house, kill his relatives (granny, grandpa and father) and then comes back.
@@tinagoldsteinscamander But the ministry still should have been alerted about underage magic. Morfin isn't underage, therefore no trace, meaning Ministry wouldn't know. It would only make sense if Tom somehow got Morfin to do the actual spells while he watched, but it is known Tom modified Morfins memory to think he had done it. I feel like this whole situation is just something the author overlooked and didn't actually think through.
3 words: WALL. OF. TEXT.
Lol jk, you do make a good point tho ngl
1:11, in the fourth book Krum catches the Snitch and his team loses because the other team is more than 150 points ahead
Alternate Title: "Inept organisation of adults put a tracker on a young boy, to see if he is playing with his *wand*."
The trace may also be something to do with the book and pen that determines if you're wizard enough to wizard. Or witch enough to witch.
If the trace isn't put on you until you go across the lake, which makes since, then how is it put on you? Is there like a magical barrier at some part of the lake or on the boats that put it on you? Also, if you don't have the trace until you get to hogwarts how do they find out that you're doing magic in the first place to determine whether or not you can even attend hogwarts? Also, how do they know your exact location when they send a letter? Like in order of the Phoenix Petunia's letter literally says, Mrs. Petunia Dursley, the kitchen 4 Privet drive. And does using your wand to get into diagon alley count as magic? And what about Lumose? Hermione and Ron use it in Goblit of Fire at the quidditch world cup in the forest. Is there just to many people there for it to matter?
Well there’s 2 magical artifacts,the quill of acceptance and the book of admittance,that are kept in a room at Hogwarts that decide whether or not a chil can attend Hogwarts based on their displays of magic before they’re 11,it’s explained in potter more archive.As for the location thing,I have no idea.
They can only track where the spell was performed and who was near and not specifically who did the spell. That's why Harry was punished when Dobby used the Hover Charm; they don't trace house elves.
FUTURE VIDEO TOPIC IDEA: Guys, I'm blown away at the realization I just had. Hagrid's wand was broken when he was expelled. We all know he has that umbrella disguising a ridiculously long wand by Harry's time at Hogwarts, and if anyone ever thought about it they may have assumed he got a new wand and hid it. Certainly no one in the Wizarding World could ever suspect that he had his original wand because it's impossible to repair a snapped wand as far as we know... but that's because no one knew Dumbledore had the Elder Wand. I now think Hagrid did indeed have his once-broken wand and that Dumbledore repaired it for him!
In the first book there was a conversation between Hagrid and Olivander when Harry stepped into the shop to get his wand. Hagrid admitted he was allowed to keep the pieces of his wand.
@@thebluestig2654 That's true, and he was sheepish about it.
@@thirteenthandy There's also a passage in the second book, when everyone arrives at Diagon Alley describing a "junk shop" that sold all sorts of broken things, including broken wands. It's possible that the wand core could be placed into another piece of wood if the core wasn't destroyed.
I think, with all the inconsistencies,(ignoring the fact this is just a book series, it might make sense that the Trace is naturally-occuring. That maybe it's something all wizards are born with, and the Ministry of Magic has just figured out how to tap into, but they aren't flawless. They don't catch everyone. So maybe they only look into people they dislike or would actually be able to do something about(for example, it would be hard to prove that underage magic is going on in a magical family, so they just ignore it). It sounds alot like the Ministry of Magic anyway.
And it just naturally wears off at 17.
And maybe it was only recently discovered how to tap into it, which explains why Tom Riddle never got caught.
The weirder part to me in Order than the crew picking Harry up is that Mundungus Fletcher is apparating in and out of Privet Drive just before the use of the Patronus charm
the first two minutes of this episode is just rapid evidence of JK being a short sighted person
It sounds to me as if the Trace IS indeed some kind of spell that is connected to some biological (or astronomical or even astrological) trait of a person, and THAT is why it AUTOMATICALLY breaks on your 17th birthday, and CANNOT be used again - the spell is only HALF of the Trace itself! The Trace is a COMBINATION of the two!
This is not to say some OTHER kind of tracking spell cannot be used on a witch/wizard at any other time, just that the Trace, specifically, CANNOT be!
I love that even 20 years later great people like this are coming up with decent explanations for obvious plot holes or mistakes made by JK Rowling
So true. There’s no reason for HP content if you’re not going to be trying to come up with an explanation for the innumerable plot holes JKR had then and the ones that were created in the years since.
I would love to read said "great people"s attempt at writing a better book series than Harry Potter.😆
@@madmusic341 Never said they would be able to write a better book series, did I? I just that she obviously made human mistakes
@@matsdevink2858 It's implied in your very critical assessment of Rowling's work that it's sub par in some way and in need of betterment and explanation. Which is nonsense. You'd be hard pressed to find any book series of a similar length that has fewer plot holes or other faults than the Harry Potter series, never mind one that is also extremely popular at that.
Also, there's nothing these very funny guys provide that is essential for enjoying the books, so calling them 'great people' when all they're really doing is being fan theorists with a big platform is odd. Highlighting the comparatively few mistakes the author made when she wrote the books as if they're some sort of big problem and labeling the funny brothers as 'great people' for coming up with potential hole fillers is a very strange relationship to have with the Potter universe in my opinion which is why I rolled my eyes at your attitude.
I don’t know if this was in the movie so it’s not canon but in the third movie prisoner of askaban Harry Potter does a spell like five times one night and then doesn’t get in trouble for it
There are a ton of inconsistencies and things that don’t make sense on Harry Potter. Some of the most significant plot points in the series come from people not being believed at their word or being convicted/punished for something they did not commit. The existence of truth serum, the pensive and a ton of other things mean that these kind of mistakes should literally never happen. Additionally, in the same vein of this video, if people were so concerned with Harry using magic outside of school, why would they keep sending him to live with a muggle family (who also abuses him) while he is being hunted by some of the most powerful wizards in history. I mean you are just asking for trouble. Don’t even get me started with Voldemort’s plans. He sets up some many elaborate plans that can and should fail in 100 different ways, all to accomplish easy tasks. For example, the whole plan on goblet of fire is just to get a few drops of blood which he could have just had fake Moody get at some point in the whole entire semester, the whole plan in order of the phoenix is unnecessary because he could have just gotten the prophecy himself, and don’t give me any of this “he would be to easy to spot” because Polly juice is a thing.
I always assumed the Trace was added AFTER Tom murdered his family. Because we hear Petunia say that Lily would come home EVERY summer and turn something (i think the teacups cant remember) into frogspawn. Lily was born to a muggle family, she used magic EVERY summer, and was never in trouble. I am thinking the trace may have been something done, during Voldemorts first rise to power, just after Lily and James graduate and they just kept it around after that.
Honestly the trace makes no sense even in universe. You are telling me that a person created a spell that tells them or something that underage wizards are using magic? For what point was that even made except for maybe back in the master and apprentice days where there was no school and an adult wizard taught you. That kind of makes sense if you are a stern teacher. But how its uses now makes no sense.
They already say in the books that its pointless to try and govern the trace in wizard homes so they leave it up to parents to discipline them, but all muggleborn kids get screwed from that lenancy and are threatened with expulsion when their wizardborn counterparts arent? Sounds like a mistake to me. As Ben says, not being able to practice your spells and magic but still having homework during the summer makes no sense. Why aren't the muggleborn houses adopted as "Wizard Homes" now that they are wizards. They and their family must know about magic, and they should be allowed to practice inside their house even if their family sees it, their family knows about it and have seen diagon alley already.
@@Natalie-xy7zy timeline does add up. I said AFTER he killed his parents. Lily and James attended Hogwarts AFTER that point, and there is evidence to suggest there was no Trace while Lily and James were in school.
I worded it that way to say both Tom and Lily didnt get in trouble with the trace because I believe it didnt exsist or at least wasnt used back then.
This seems to be much more consistent than other problems in the series. It's possible the trace is a recent thing which would explain away Tom Riddle's use of magic. There are also possible explanations for a lot of the examples given here
It's also possible that Tom Riddle found a way to break his trace. It seems like something he would do
@@darthbork6894 I suppose it's possible, but quite unlikely. No mention of it being broken at any point or even the possibility of it being broken
In that case Dumbledore would mention so. Harry specifically brought up Trace in that discussion
"let them just use your wand", hold on. How often have we heard the words Wand Loyalty which could literally endanger your children by letting them use a wand that isn't loyal to them like Neville's wand constantly rebelling because it didn't choose him.
Depends on the wood and core, while wands won't work as well for someone other than their owner, most wood and core combinations aren't particularly temperamental. Neville had a particularly bad combo given to him. Ron also got his wand hand-me-down style and it worked for him, just not very well, in fact this serves as a direct example of a family having their child use someone else's wand.
@@DreadKyller and even then, the only reason the wand became dangerous is because it was damaged. Not because it wasnt loyal to him.
Also worth noting that it matters how the wand is handed down. We know wands can change allegiance temporarily or with very little motivating as Harry taking Draco's want physically from his hand serves as enough to change the allegiance. If a parent willingly let their child use their wand, and such was their will, the wands would likely obey and work alright for them, just not at full power. For example Ron's brother consented to Ron using his old want, and that wand did work for Ron (again albeit not that well) for a while before Ron got a new one. Neville on the other hand was given his fathers wand after his father was no longer able to give consent because he'd been made insane already.
His "Japanese Golfer Joke" is interrupted earlier when Dobby was trying to beat himself up with the desk lamp! If you watch the scene Dobby uses the hover charm, he'd just finished a joke about: "'Look at all that water', and the second plumber said: 'And that's just the top of it'"
If I had been a Wizard, The Trace would break for me next Monday, the 19th. (Couldn't think of anything better to comment 😂)
The quidditch thing makes sense. 13 teams. It’s not like the NFL where you have an average of 3 year career. You could have a 20 year career. So anyone coming out of school isn’t a lock to make a team as they will have a pool of players from potentially the last 20 years. Especially at positions like keeper and beater. I imagine there is a higher turnover at seeker and chaser. But still a lot of competition. Not to mention overseas players.
Also Hogwarts isn't the ONLY Wizarding school. It is just the most well known. I assume there are a lot of "lesser" schools with quidich teams.
Overseas complicates things further. There's only 11 magical schools in the world and somehow there's enough Quidditch players for the likes of Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Fiji to have their own teams. In the UK, there's around 700,000 births per year and Hogwarts has 30-40 new students, giving us roughly one magical person in every 20,000. Also, Britain could be presumed to have a higher than average concentration of magical births given that it's got its own magical school for a population of 70 million, when the global average is one school per 700 million people.
Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Fiji ought to have a total magical population of about 2, 30 and 45 respectively and that's assuming that, like Britain, they have a 10-times-higher than average rate of magical births. How they're managing to send teams to the Quidditch World Cup is anyone's guess.
@@brynknight2745 because you only need a squad of maybe 20. And if you get 3 good players a year from each country and a bunch of people who play professionally for over 10 years you easily have a surplus of players. The same way these countries put out soccer teams. They may not be as good, but they can still compete.
@@darthsimian2196 If Luxembourg and Fiji have similar wizarding birth rates to the UK, then they 1 wizard born every 2-3 years. If they're closer to the world average, it's more like one wizard per generation. Liechtenstein is just ridiculous; the nation's population is 38,000 so if one in every 20,000 people is magical, what on earth is going on? Is the country just one massive wizarding enclave, like a giant Godric's Hollow?
@@brynknight2745 yeah. Kind of. The fact that they have teams tells you there are enough magical people to make team, even if they have 3 40 year olds 2 25 year olds and a 17 year old in the team. These countries may be places that wizards and witches migrate to or have thriving communities precisely because of the small population. There is no telling how post ww2 and 2nd wizarding war effected the magical population or their migratory habits. It would make sense to form communities in smaller countries where there is less muggle population, surveillance, or even just more rural areas where they can have GH like villages. Or there are large wizarding families like the Weasleys who almost had enough for a whole team on their own. And just because they were at one World Cup doesn’t mean that they are at every World Cup. Their may be cycles where they can’t put a team together. It’s not explained but there are any number of ways that it makes sense. Even if the manager is like Jackie Charlton and and slight hint that your great grand parents visited the place let’s you qualify. Or that players who couldn’t make their own National team move to these places to represent them. It’s not inconsistent, inconceivable or even a big leap to come up with any explanation for how there are enough players. It’s the only professional wizard sport. It isn’t competing for recruits.
I would like to argue that young Tom Riddle using the unforgivable curse three times as a 15-year-old might be why kids are not allowed to use magic outside of school and now have a trace on them it probably wasn't always a thing
Also Voldemort being the type of person he is maybe he used a aging potion or something to make him 17 briefly so he could do this without being under the trace or maybe he took a sip apologies potion to make him into somebody older for a few minutes
Or he could have found a way to break or get rid of it
@@darthbork6894 also possible
Let’s gooo another HP theory love these guys
I had a heart attack from that footage of you using the fountain pen wrong. You’ll break the nib, Ben!!!
I BELIEVED THE TITLE WITHOUT WATCHING LOL
This channel has my trust :)