Neve 8424 | Game Changing Mixing Console Or Same Sh*t Different Knobs?
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
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Welcome to the first Present Day Production News episode! This is a regular feature we intend to bring to the channel, unless it’s really boring and nobody watches it, in which case we’ll ditch it and try again. Let us know what you think in the comments! In this episode:
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Jamie gets his mitts on some tasty ATC 3-ways for a bargain price
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The new Neve 8424
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So far, your review of the Neve is about on par with that of other reviewers... basically, one big, collective, “No EQ, No Dynamics Control, only 2 Mic Pres, no DAW interfacing... so then, WTF does it really do?
It’s just basically a big, expensive summing device, right?”
“But it’s a great price for a Neve! Only 24 Large for a Neve console!”
“Well, no, not exactly, because it’s not a “console” console, is it? It’s main function is summing.”
“No! it’s WAY more than that... it’s a...it’s a... (sigh) yeah, okay, you’re right. It’s basically just a big-ass summing device. But hey!... it does say “Neve”, on it, so that alone’s gotta be worth at least 10 grand, right? Right?”
(Insert sound of crickets breathing here).
As far as SOS goes, I agree; I’ve trusted them for many years now, and I think that they give honest, fair reviews. Actually, come to think of it, out of all the trade publications out there these days, I probably trust SOS’s reviews the most.
🙏😊
Neve have launched some ‘in depth’ videos on it in the last couple of days. They’re not very long.... 😝
I agree on SOS. They always give good technical information, and the sound quality ? I'll decide if I like a piece of gear.
SoS did a review of the 8424 in the latest issue, and concluded it was a brilliant product.
Yeah Ive got a SoundCraft LX7II in basically Brand new condition...Ill stick with that......I think SoundCraft with nice Rack Gear and Upgrading to Trident 66 and a Reel To Reel or Tascam 388 or Changing over to Cranborne Summing 500 Series Mixer/ Interface...or the best ways to go at t his point...anything else your being Ripped Off!
Best news for pro audio I've seen on UA-cam in some time. Cheers for it gents.
If I had one of these desks I would feed it accordingly. For Drums, channels 17-24 line in from my TD50, guitars, bass, singers, channels 1-10 using a 1073opx and two on board 1073s. Assuming I’m micing cabs. However With today’s line out from Fractal, Kemper, Helix processors and modern keyboards you can easily work around a low preamp count. I have UA, Avalon, Millenia outboard pre’s and channel strips to supplement any further preamp needs. If you were to equip this console with 24 on board 1073s you would need to add an estimated 22K US. I’m not a NEVE spokesperson but I clearly understand the intent of this board. And I’m not a fan of a reviewer that has not even sat behind one. CRAZY
Never thought I’d be more interested in a Tascam Model 12 than that Neve but here we are ;-)
Recently bought the Model 16, it's a great piece of kit.
@@NoQualmsTheArtist i hate the fact that stereo had to be on 2 seperate tracks and that the 3rd send doesn't work like the first two.
@@hinderminder5250 you can just plug a cable into the FX out, it works the same as the other 2 aux sends. There is also 3 stereo channels if you need to have stereo. I started engineering on large format consoles, so 2 mono channels panned LR is normal for me and any engineer that has worked in professional studios. So it's no real biggie but each to their own 😁
@@NoQualmsTheArtist i have a model 16 so only 2 stereo channels which are already taken by 2 of my effects. Yes i use the 3rd sendand no it does not work like the other 2. The first 2 sends i turn the send knob and that controls how volume gets sent indepent of the fader but with the 3rd send the fader affects how mich volume gets sent as well, very annoying. Having two seperate faders panned left and right makes it basically impossible to get things co.pletely centered like kick and snare i don't understand how professionals can work like that
@@hinderminder5250 that's because kick and snare are both mono sounds so you give them their own mono channel panned to the centre. Only busses and stereo instruments like pianos or overheads need 2 channels and they are ok to be panned LR.
I know this was 2 years ago, but watch Neve’s 20 minute 8424 series on their UA-cam and I respectfully suggest you’ll see the value in it. Also, has DAW control and Analog summing. Very interesting console.
What's the video called?
@@billyvalentine4365
Let me look at up, Im sorry about the late response
@@billyvalentine4365
ua-cam.com/video/_SwZm37WWTY/v-deo.htmlsi=ytH9WCIC4Ex10l1R
How refreshing!!! I love this guy!!!
I’m a fan of the Nevé sound and own a couple of their products but Neve’s problem has always been that they are drunk with hubris, they actually expect us to empty 24k out our wallets for this “console” that has No freaking DAW control , is mind boggling stingy with EQs and mic pres ...They want us to show them love, without them being required to love us back...(Naw...I’ll pass). I can get a lot more bang for my 24K elsewhere.
Great point. What other desk is in that range that has EQ and DAW controls?
@@lovemusic324 exactly!
@@canuteneilellis1928 The SSL Matrix 2
Streamlined for a hybrid workflow
Pristine SuperAnalogue circuitry
Take complete control of your DAW
Professional monitoring and talkback
X-Rack integration for total recall
Minimal signal path makes it easy to use your outboard gear
Each channel includes inputs for both tracking and mixing
Insert points let you patch in additional outboard processors
Insert Matrix provides plug-in-style hardware routing options
Stereo Cue ins add a total of 40 inputs for analog summing
Same DC-coupled circuit design found in SSL's top gear
Transparent signal path exceeds 24-bit/192kHz resolution
Extremely wide frequency range with flat response
Ultra-low distortion performance won't color your sound
Virtually nonexistent noise floor offers extended dynamics
DAW Focus Mode provides full control surface functionality
HUI and MCU mode presets cover every major DAW software
17 motorized faders provide amazing hands-on control
Complete transport controls and timeline readout onboard
Focus Fader mode provides additional mixing flexibility
Main and Mini outputs let you easily switch between monitors
Artist monitor output is perfect for setting up headphones
5 external monitoring inputs provide ample source selection
External input summing makes adding reference tracks simple
Updated Total Recall system makes restoring settings easy
Manage TR setups right from the Matrix Remote application
Many settings can be instantly and automatically restored
Manual settings guided with simple LED indicator lights
TR supports up to 6 additional SSL X-Rack modules
Solid State Logic Matrix2 Delta - Mixing Console and Control Surface | Sweetwater
@@canuteneilellis1928 also here is a link
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Matrix2--solid-state-logic-matrix2
@@canuteneilellis1928 Also check out this video (he also has a follow up video with board suggestions of his own).ua-cam.com/video/2hTyWzng1LY/v-deo.html
It does look great. For high end project studio guys who want a console without the big price, this may be just it. You get 2 1073 mic pre's, and you then add two Neve 500 series EQ's in the two slots. If you need more mic pre's just add the 1073 OPX which provides you with 8 mic pre's that you can control digitially right on the console. Personally I won't need them as I already have my Manley, SSL and Rupert Neve Portico pre's. You have the joy of mixing your mix from this console with the 24 faders and 4 groups. Similar to the SSL XL desk though that desk only offers 16 channels. This Neve console also offer automation as well with moving faders. It has a great master bus sections with talkback, headphones, speaker switching etc. You can also get your outboard gear and route it to any channel you want to the console. This mixer is a lot cheaper than the Neve Genesis but again with adding the 173 OPX, a Massive Passive, and a API or SSL 2 bus compressor, it will still cost you alot less.
It's amazing that people don't understand this is the cheapest way to get into Neve with the full hands-on mix control and a higher channel count than the competition, while using your own choice of outboard. It may not be for me, but it is an example of the blue sky thinking the commentator here was calling for. He can't see it right in front of his face.
I love your videos, right in the face kind of style with no sugar coating! A little comment about the ATC processing, on the circuit level there are correction Eq and Compression for each driver with potentiometers, so the processing is purely analog and set by the manufacturer. their amplifiers are quite solid but some of the capacitors tend to fail and then they need replacement and calibration.
I realize this was two years ago, but it was a rather uninformed take on the 8424. Yes it's a summing console, but for 24 channels of high voltage summing with four sub groups - transformer balanced inserts on every channel and dual inputs on every channel = 48 inputs - each with its own insert... you begin to see where the money is going. And yes, they added automation and motorized faders.
I have an API box and it's wonderful in so far is it actually sounds like an API console. I assume the 8424 actually sounds like a Neve. To be able to get into that kind of large console sound for these prices (brand new) is amazing. I better comparison for the new year would be the API 1608 unloaded. Yes, it comes with preamps, but personally, I would rather not be charged for 16 of the same preamps, and be able to use the variety that I already own.
unlike the box, the 8424 as true daw returns. yes, you have to fill in your own processing, but it's designed more like a large format console than either of the box or the XL.
The big question for me is if I decide to upgrade, whether it's going to be an 8424 or a 1608. the built-in automation in the 8424 makes it extremely competitive. Even without it, even 2 years ago... 48 inputs, inserts, auxes, faders, subs, monitoring... to call that "nothing"? Not a credible review.
cheers to Neve for withstanding a lot of noise like this when they were actually releasing an impressive product.
best music news video I've seen in years!
UA Apollo 16, UAD Satellite Octo core(SSL Strip on every channel), 2 SSL VHD Pre 4 channel , 2 SSL Alpha Channel , Avid MC Control and 2 Artist mix control surfaces and approx $2000 in UA plugins = $20,005 and oh yes, I almost forgot $5.00 for a big NEVE poster for the control room.
This wont give you all the patching possibilites of the 8424, nor does it have the same amount of faders.
I've been spending a lot of time researching which console I'd like to purchase. I can't financially justify a Genesys when I've already got outboard gear. Honestly, the 8424 is probably going to be what I purchase. Especially now that it has automation and motorized faders. It really seems to be the perfect mixing desk to easily incorporate outboard gear and quickly swap back and forth from recording and mixing.
Yeah Ive got a SoundCraft LX7II in basically Brand new condition...Ill stick with that......I think SoundCraft with nice Rack Gear and Upgrading to Trident 66 and a Reel To Reel or Tascam 388 or Changing over to Cranborne Summing 500 Series Mixer/ Interface...or the best ways to go at t his point...anything else your being Ripped Off!
Objective, informative reviews without the pissy vitriol I often associate with UA-cam reviewers.
Just a dash of sarcasm, and humour as the final ingredients, and perfect.
Pretty sure I'll be grabbing one pretty soon here, as a sound designer with lots of outboard synths and modular it could be the hub of my studio I think, I could see how this would not be a great choice for a tracking/mixing studio though
Pgon The M-480 was releases in 2007? proav.roland.com/global/products/m-480/
But with no EQ's?
@@jakobole As an opposite of the guy who made this video, the product desginers at Neve meet alot of engineers and producers. You can very safely assume that the products they finally deliver are very well aligned with what their customers are asking for.
Here is a quote from the SoS review of this console:
”Designer Robin Porter (who’s been with Neve since the ’70s, and was involved
in the development of George Martin’s famous AIR Montserrat console) explained to me that he’d observed many people working on larger consoles who were barely using the channel EQs: typically, they’d tweak a channel or two, but leave the rest untouched. They might also opt to use different-sounding outboard EQs.”
I agree this is a well thought out board on many levels for the features nd price point, with recall and automated faders coming soon. Anyone watching the breakdown videos of the features will understand its use. I may pick up one myself
I understand the NEVE, premise clearly. You’ve amassed a shit ton of outboard gear, for example, I have Avalon, Millennia, Universal Audio, 1073 opx, and there you have it, all the preamps you need to track an entire band. Or D.I. synths, guitars, bass, iPads and even electronic drums. Get it all tucked into the DAW , use some killer Waves, UAD, etc plug-ins, to taste and run it back into the console. Mix to your content, using a world class master section. All without having to use a patch bay, or climbing around behind the rig. No doubt it’s extravagant, but it was designed to be the hub of a hybrid production studio. I’m on the fence to buy one.
Neve rule analog ...great show ..great episode ..thanks for the heads up about future music as well.
This fella sounds almost exactly like mr Geoff Tanner. Very soothing tone of voice.
you're so on point with wanting more of the live world and film style console features making into studio consoles, this would make so much sense its untrue.
Indeed, there’s so much affection for a bygone era of recording, mainly from people who didn’t experience the pleasure of watching yesterdays perfect takes get chewed up and chucked over the floor by the 2”! How many more classic gear clones do we need? Live gigs sound better than they ever have with advances in PA technology and digital desks, it would be so nice to see more of that spill over into studio land.
@@PresentDayProduction amen to that, embrace the future...or at least catch the hell up a little 🤣
Neve have mixers which are more int he direction you are looking for, the Genesys line.
This is for people who need the advantages of analog monitoring, routing, metering, summing and so in, but dont want to pay for the extra cost of eq/preamps on every channel. If you need that, buy some Genesys console.
its sounds amazing 😍 so full of breathing life 🥳
Thanks for the honest review. I'm not sure what Neve was thinking with this either.
They where probably thinking about what a console always been doing, but adepted the feature set slightly to better fit todays needs;
I.e, monitoring, routing, hybrid mixing and tracking. The recall option, which neither of the others have, makes possible to jump quickly back and forth between different projects.
Great video! When I saw the specs of the Neve desk I was confused too. Not that I ever had so much money I could buy any these but I don't get why would you want this in any recording studio. I just bought Midas Verona second hand from the first owner for 700€. It has 40 pretty freekingly amazing mic preamps + all the input options I would ever need.
Ps, we should get you more subscribers.
Hey Tommi, thanks for watching! Midas Verona... NOW you’re talking! That’s a desk where just squirting audio through it makes it sound better. Lovely EQ, superb mic preamps, a gorgeous sounding console. You, my friend, just made a wise investment! Congrats on the Midas, that desk blows any high end console I’ve ever heard clean out the water!
If you are really interested in the usage of the 8424, go buy the SoS review, it cost approx. 1 euro. At least they seem to have really tried the desk, not just seen it on a picture.
I've been DIYing for about 6 years now. I know the cost of Carnhill transformers, PCBs from china, capacitors, resistors, diodes, etc from mouser. They could easily make 8 channel console with mic pres and EQ and make it very affordable. There are DIY 1073s (+EQ) out there for approximately $400 per channel. These things could get really affordable and more people would buy!!! I get they have employees and there are so many costs incurred during production, but $25,000 for a summing mixer is just pushing it!!!
But it has capabilities for a lot more than a summing mixer, right? Monitoring, routing, metering, tracking...
@@JJRockford obviously 😛
He’s proper in love with this desk isn’t he! Do you think he works for Neve?
PresentDayProduction Keep on working with your 1500$ Tegeler-only damn good song ;)
Jonas Boström Who recorded and mixed The Rockford Heroes?
Has anyone done a demo on the master section of this board and review how it sounds?
We need modern 24 channel analog desks that have AD converters to run into a PC or Mac, and add some automation and DAW control. I don't see why that would be so hard to achieve. Basically a DAW controller/audio interface with analog EQ's and ability to run outboard gear.
24 channels would be plenty for most home studios. Anyone that can make a line of 8, 16, 24, 30 and 48 channels would command the market... Neve, API, SSL, Harrison, Allen & Heath, Soundcraft, Yamaha, Mackie, ANYONE of these and others have the technical and manufacturing capability. They just are not giving consumers what they need and want.
Exactly - although we have been using the Presonus Studiolive series3 desks for a few years for both live recording and as DAW control for mixing, and they kinda nail it
Essentially the AWS range from SSL, though they don't incorporate AD/DA for some reason (I'm guessing their target market already has racks of Apogee, Lynx or PT HD in their machine rooms so they opted not to add their own). The AWS is downright fantastic, but it IS very expensive so it well should be.
The Genesys series from Neve have digital options.
what would be the best option on buying a desk opening a commercial studio soon... digital or analog? what brand...
It depends entirely on your workflow and budget really. We use a Presonus Studiolive 32 Seriesiii digital desk for capture (we have an AVB stage box in the live room that contains the remotely controllable mic pres and that is connected to the desk via a single Cat5 cable) and mix entirely in the box these days, so the Presonus then becomes a 32 channel DAW controller with a single button push. That works really well for our situation, but yours may be very different. If you have the budget, a lot of external pres and a lot of external outboard, then the 8424 is actually a very viable option (especially with the forthcoming automation upgrade), or something like the SSL Matrix would do a great job. So it depends entirely on workflow and budget really, and the aesthetic can be important too... I know of one producer that has a 48 channel SSL Duality that only ever tracks his own vocals 😂
Audient !!! underrated imho. I am running a non fancy Soundtracs Topaz 32..does the job for my homestudio. NEVE kinda lost it with this specs. But I am sure they are buyers because it says Neve on it ;-)
Ahhh I love Soundtracs! I had a Topaz for years in the 90s and then we had a 48 channel Jade-S in our last studio. Fantastic consoles!
yeah! great stuff I am a non professional so tracking on 8 track 1/2" tapemachine i am super happy with my Topaz. Heard that the Jade was really nice. Love your channel!!!
If I had the money I will buy even if I don't use it , I would have in my house just to look . It's a beautiful sound machine.
I love NEVE . It is a personal.
It’s a very pretty desk! I don’t think I’d spend over £20K on something I wouldn’t use though 😝 Thanks for your comment, Gary! 😎👍
And i have a stack of old future music magazines ..i'll check your previous articles out ...always good if i remember correctly.
Was it readers wives on there front cover at the time (We have money ..let's employ a model from one of the other publications downstairs ...for a girl on synth cover shoot)
big love!
Enjoyed this - would be good to see more of the >10mins news updates. Might help balance out all the super positive UA-cam reviews for product handouts. Also any idea when the update to this will be out, interested to see (hear?) how those ATCs worked out? Thanks
P.S - That GRACE character has a bit of the Red Dwarf about it!
Thanks Dylan! We’ve been meaning to do the update for AGES! But we’ll get on it, I promise! Grace is terrifying, I’ve turned her off (don’t tell James!)
Some nice flashing lights!
tom kent 😂👍
Er, I think I'll stick with the Presonus Studiolive for a tenth of the price.
It’s for the producers, post production engineers and solo artists. I’m getting one. It’s actually exactly what I need.
This is utterly useless for post. You sure you even know what post is?
@@artysanmobile sure do! There is plenty of versatility for processing. Mine will be coming mid month. So excited
Good for you mags2020, I am seriously considering getting one too !! The more I think about how amazing this thing is the better I like it.
I used to work on the KH o300’s and that was back in 2005. I don’t remember them ever sounding sh*t. In fact for me they were better than most 3 way speakers under 5k at the time. Currently using the KH310s and they are slightly more open, improved bass response, and more headroom on the amps. I prefer the 310s over the footprint 01s. The only speakers I would consider over my 310s would be the SCM25a or the SCM45a.
When I’m mastering a lot of electronic music I can often take a guess that it was mixed on o300s/310s, and often am right. So that kinda tells me something! And I know ATC 25/45s cost a lot more, but if you audition them next to the 310s, once you’ve got over the initial shock of music you thought sounded great sounding not so great, they’ll blow your socks off. Even with the passive SCM35s Jamie now has (which can routinely be picked up secondhand for £1500) the difference is remarkable, and his mixing and mastering work has improved tenfold since making the change.
@@PresentDayProduction From personal experience, once I had written a hard rock song and it sounded fine on my system (310s) and I turned it over to an engineer with ATCs. He sent me back a piece of crap with resonances that I could hear and he couldn't. Me and my friends checked it in multiple systems and it really was a piece of crap everywhere and my own mix just sounded better. 310s are considered "clinical" and "sterile". Maybe it's a matter of taste. But ATCs are far more expensive (even the passive ones) than the KH310s anyway so I don't get where the comparison is coming from. At that price I could also buy Lipinskis.
I think the idea behind the Neve is that it's a "tracking" console. Do overdubs with the pre's, summing, and probably extensive output/monitoring options. For my approach of using the DAW as a tape machine (i.e. different pre's straight into the DAW, some in the box processing, and straight out analogue summing) this would be a nice desk. At about 10k or so!
A tracking console with no preamps or DAW connectivity? So I need a rack of pre’s to track, and a rack of converters to get me into the computer, while that sits in the middle and says “Neve”? Like you say, at 10k or so... actually at 10k or I still think it would be a useless waste of cash... at least give me a way to get my audio in and out of a computer, and automation and DAW control at the very least... if Presonus can give me incredible DAW control for £2.5k, and 32 channels of pristine audio in and out of my Mac over cat5.... come on Neve!
@@PresentDayProduction Exactly. Love my 500 series 1073's though.
PresentDayProduction The 8424 have two preamps and two DI’s, which will cover the tracking needs in almost every case you can think of except when recording a full drum kit or a band.
what about the ssl matrix ?
I own a Looptrotter console with 24ch input. On every input two 500 series slots. Also in the Master Bus and Aux. Here is where the sound shapping on the anloge stage happens. And so i have via the Neve, API, Shadow Hills .... all the transformer magic on a scalable and ultra flexible way.
No need for 8424 with only two transformers.
And may Looptrotter is adding fader magic to the console I’m in haven ;-).
I suppose some key differences here are, as you say, the flying faders option, but also the recall and the extra C input, which allows you to use all inputs at mixdown without have to re-connect anything.
That Neve looks perfect for me, but Im a composer and only need a desk for summing and monitoring stems. But, wow its pricey for what it does.
If you only need summing and monitoring, maybe the 8816 is a better choice?
so honest thanks :-)
I’m new to professional studio world, but from my research, and style of music 🎶
It’s for me...
Add :
1. Avid Corbin audio interface,
2. Few Tube Tech rack EQ’s SMC 2bm processor with neve best...
I think I am going to sound just as good if not better than studio’s more expensive...
What do you think 🤔
We think that you’d be better spending £30,000 on a pair of ATC SCM150’s. Invest in top-tier monitoring over anything else and the quality of work will soon follow.
Easy, I have a 24 channel RADAR all analogue except for that, so this is perfect, need the summing sends aux in out, dont use a mouse or daw. 4 inputs 2 DIs, 2 Pres, not an EQ guy but easy outboard for that as well.
Eric Well, you’re their customer! Glad to know you’re still working on RADAR. Still the best sounding system I’ve used to this day. I remember doing a shootout with that, 2” analogue tape and whatever the ProTools system was at the time, and it won hands down on every blind test. I’d be interested to know if it still sounds as good today as I remember it!
@@PresentDayProduction Correct, I started making records in 1971, at Capitol, Island, Arista,you may have heard of the Persuasions, my act. Started the studio for my 19 year olds music so back at it after 30 years away Next is 2 track tape for mixdown, Mara.
@@Eric-hq2zy im so close to buying a radar as im trying to upgrade my home studio for commercial use in the coming year or so. i always did my proper albums on 2" in pro studios but im just not engineery enough to be the tape op. i want that work flow and similar quality.. it's weird cuz there isnt a tonne of info about radar around other than basically everyone saying it's amazing x
@@m.o.n.d.e.g.r.e.e.n O, selling my RADAR 24, getting the RADAR Studio, probably my 5th RADAR, it is shipping direct from IZ, refurbished in a couple weeks...come to OR this summer, we are have an MCI 24" 2 track and a 1/2' 2 track for mixdown coming
@@PresentDayProduction gettting 24 track 2" MARA Machinge/2Track 1/2 for mix down brand new and a RADAR Studio (Digital transfer of remote session guys and transfer to digital. Through my API box, i can record to both simultaneously, so I will get you a video of the "shootout"! I made my first record for Capitol 50 years ago January. Not settling for less. Question? Do you think the Send will properly mirror the Direct Output on the shootout? 8 will go direct output to tape, 8 from Send to RADAR?
Have you done a video on the Presonus Series III console?
Not yet, maybe we should?
@@PresentDayProduction yes
This isn't the same ballpark at all, but with its BigSiX, SSL might be paving the way to the future. For the price of a 8424, you can get about 8 BigSixes ("BigFortyEight"?), with 32 mic preamps, 32 stereo channels, 64 EQs, and 64 AD/DA... Joke aside, ff course the sound quality of a BigSix can't compare with a 20K console, but as a new concept, add a few channels, motorized faders, daw integration, and you could get a killer product! SSL, are you listening?
I think they're going down the Apple route. 1000 pound display stand? 700$ wheels? seems to be a market. Its not just us. Sometimes
Well we balk at the cost of most things nowadays but in defense of Neve, what is this raising of the eyebrows and "it's just a summing mixer" ? Just a summing mixer?
A fully fledged summing mixer is very different to a summing box. And a summing mixer does more than just add inserts - something missing from most summing boxes. The Api Unit also makes it difficult tp patch any none 500 series hardware you may have. The routing capabilities of the Neve are pretty amazing..as is the centre final mix section. And Neve have chosen to have all recall functions as part of its own architecture, so you dont have to worry about wether or not your system is going to run with whatever new OS Apple comes out with. Then there are the ergonomics of having everything laid out in front of you, not having to squint your eyes and connecting your outboard is a breeze.
However ..it would have been nice for the money Neve ask to also have the digital patching facilities that the SSL Matrix has. If Neve had done that I think most of the disparaging comments would have been replaced with a wow.
I'd really like see a video of your true opinion of the SSL XL-Desk. It looks very interesting (though the snotty pants at Gearslutz seem to poo poo it as "plastic"). - I keep going back and forth between XL Desk, Trident 88, Audient 8024 and a vintage SSL AWS 900 SE.
I think the XL desk is great if you’re using a lot of 500 series, but again I think it’s overpriced. We looked at that and the Matrix a few years back when we were building a new mix room. In the end we went in the box and used the budget on acoustic treatment and monitoring. A far better investment for us!
@@PresentDayProduction It seems like you kind of missing the point of having a console. If you need to use 500 modules, there are alot of 500 module chassis which costs a fraction of a XL-Desk, but still can host as many modules. HOWEVER. The main purpose nowadays would of course be to have some kind of centerpiece in your studio to which everything is connected and allows you to as fast as possible switch and route between different equipment, projects and always being able to monitor the sources you need.
And, voila... The 8424 is fantastic for doing that.
Play classical music on ATC monitors and they fall apart sonically. Plus they require massive power amps which have very complex circuits so lack subtlety. Try the complete opposite; Single ended valve amp with high efficiency drivers!
It’s entirely untrue that ATC monitors fall apart on classical music. They’re incredibly accurate in all genres - in fact we got a pair of ATC SCM200’s last week for our mastering suite and everyone at PDP thinks they’re above and beyond. There must be a reason why many mastering studios use them! But of course, it’s personal opinion, people like different things.
ATC can most definitely achieve subtlety in terms of sound, you can go from a whisper to blow-your-face-off and still retain incredibly accuracy.
We love them, that’s for sure. They’re in every room!
8424 looks like its the Ducks Guts, but in the end, it seems the "sum" is a Ducks Fart in the wind.
Well, Thats my "Summary"
API 2448 costs $86,400, with automation $98,750. SSL AWS924 costs $86,000. Ducks are thinking...
Large format recording consoles are phasing out that's been on the decline in the past 16 years now. That's why they are getting smaller as cut down versions mainly for Hybrid Mixing. The Argosy Console Desks are starting replace a lot of the larger format consoles with smaller mixers installed in them and some without a console at all. AMS/NEVE, Rupert Neve Designs and SSL only makes one model larger format console which will probably be the last of the larger foot print consoles made esp the Duality Delta.
id have a focusrite Scarlett over this toy any day.
At £22k why would you bother when you can get equally good music output quality with a hybrid mix of gear?
guys I need help. I'm really tired to print automations with the mouse and I'm looking for a fader controller. I'm in a small room and I don't have a lot of space. I've seen scheps uses the fader port. but I would like to use it also as controller for volume/esperssion/vibrato with the sample libraries. I'm on a MacBook pro i5 with 16gb , I use logic pro. please help
Hey there! Thanks for your comment. We really recommend the Icon controllers. They’re very budget friendly and work really well in Logic. They do a single fader version called the Icon Platform Nano, and an 8 fader version called the Platform M. I’ve used the Platform M a lot and it’s been awesome. I hope that helps!
@@PresentDayProduction thank you for the reply highly appreciate it!
For 26K it should have everything inboard, computer, interface, maybe some patchbay action. Then your talking about a serious piece of kit, i have what this can do in my 16 channel yamaha mixer, that cost 700, well mostly, i mean it doesn't have the Neve sticker.
22k...is that the 'on the road' price?
22k for eye candy! If summing is its main feature, the centerpiece has it beat in its own game.
This does look cool though, if you’ve got the extra 17k and want to be able to pan! 🤣
Summing isnt the main feature, wh told you that?
i guess right now there are a lot of bedroom producers who've had top 10's and want to spend some pre-tax money of about 30k and they will only need one or two pre's for the singer or whatever. the rest is ITB and summing, buy a tasty vocal mic. 30k. and maybe those folks want something that's all in one box for them and you get a name that has zing. personally i think it's expensive esp when Rupe himself has made a bunch of highly regarded RND summing boxes for a lot less and you can pick u a 1073dpx from AMS or RND shelford channels
You can probably find slightly cheaper alternatives if you break down the functionality one by one, but having all this functionality in one unit with such a small footprint is unheard of before.
Closest thing is probably the Audient Zen console, which isnt sold anymore though. And, it didnt have recall, which I think is a very important detail today where people rarely only work at one song until its finished.
Let me get this on affirm payments
Thank for calling Neve out on this 👏👏👏👏👏
the fairlight consoles are available separately. someone could reverse engineer the communications of these things and control DAWs with them
We’re looking into that!
@@PresentDayProduction I'm interested, it would be cool to be able to control ardour with those
Something like “oh but everyone have their own preamps these days, if they would bypass mine for theirs why would i not chop off the extra weight? Right ? “
A few years late with this comment, but...the desk is well worth it. And you DO get automation with it. It is optional, Without automation it is exactly the same as the SSL XL Desk which comes in at around £16k today (with no automation) and the 8424 comes in around 20k. Sure the XL desk has 8 pres compared to Neves 2 pres for one simple reason, its more expensive to build the Neve pres, they have transformers! They, believe it or not...cost money!!! Who woulda thunk it! SSL are cheaper pres because they are cheaper to build. And by cheaper I do not mean inferior, but simply...cheaper. If you want clean transformerless uncoloured sound...grab an XL desk, if you want transformer love, then...you are gonna pay for it. And yes, it IS a summing desk, and the reason you are paying 20k is because Auxs, and all the routing, and the busses and master section COSTS MONEY TO BUILD! Its not some summing box with 16 ins and master out only, its that plus more and if you want more, then you pay money for it. If you want to integrate your outboard gear into a desk/console, then pay for it. Here is some more perspective. Rupert Neve 5088 Console, it is all modular as you know and you can buy it piece by piece if you wish. Well, the base console, like the AMS NEVE 8424 does nothing as well. It does naff all, its a routing desk with ZERO mic pres. You can buy the 16 channel frame and many have done so for summing. Its £40,000 just for the main frame. But, who complains about that? No one! When you buy ANY console, half of that price is on the main frame and the other half is on the pres and eqs. The AMS neve 8424 is bascially the guts of a console. A decent console! It is not over priced at all! Its a well designed piece of kit. And also, the OPX pre amps are 4k, so for 38k you can get a 24 channel console (minus eq), 24 pre amps, motorized faders, daw control, two extra 1073 pre amp modules, and carnhill transformer summing, I mean...really? That is a not bad deal for such a set up. And for the whingers who are like "who has 38k", well...be grateful such a set up exists in that price range because there was time all neve had was the 88rs which costs the price of a 4 bedroom house...be grateful you can now get a decent console set up with Neve's technology for less than the price of a dingy flat instead of moaning and wanting something cheaper than your coffee and bun! This stuff is not cheap to build, and if you think it is, and if you think it is super easy...go design your own gear and do something about it, or be grateful such stuff exits. SSL is cheaper because their components are cheaper, the API is cheaper because they cut corners, that being said, the Box still sounds lovely, but they cut corners with the transformers on the mic pre amps within the Box. So cost went down quite a bit. I have no idea why the 8424 gets such a hard time over all the other summing desks, in that field of summing consoles the 8424 holds its own.
I wonder how sales are going for this mix-buss device for the rich and famous?
Check out their homepage, there are some posts about studios who bought it.
They sell about one a week. This info was given to me directly from NEVE. Mine, with auto and OPX, will be delivered next week as of the time of this posting.
Buy an Audient ASP 4816 and 2 AMS NEVE 1073 OPX or an SSL SIgma, a SSL Nucleus with the 2 AMS NEVE 1073 OPX and you get much better deals for your money.
Not if you need the routing and monitoring features of the 8424.
but with the neve, you get what the people want, they can say they mix on a ams neve
This is Ams’ way of saying, “For Fans Only”. $25k makes no sense for so little.
It depends what you mean by ”fans”. But if you mean professionals who really work in music business, you are probably right. They will, of course a little bit depending on personal preferences, understand what the 8424 is about and find that its reasonble priced relative to its features.
Jonas Boström umm ... I meant “for fans only” as a joke, a soft ribbing.
Jonas Boström Also, professionals that really work in the industry/business, as you say ... Serban and Andrew Scheps mix totally and completely in the box. It’s a cliche to point that out, but it’s worth pointing it out. $25,000 is a lot of cash for a glorified summing amplifier. For the same money one could easily assemble a similar setup AND include faders that connect to your computer and automate your mixing protocols. One could potentially save money going that route, as well. Again, “For fans only” was meant as a joke. I’m sure the AMS Neve console sounds positively fabulous as well it should
Meloman 201618 I am a big fan of Andrew Scheps, but he is only mixing ITB, not recording/producing... Which is the similar setup you are suggesting?
@@JJRockford I suppose there's some confusion here. What I'm suggeting, (and not in a patronizing way), is that, yes, it makes sense to have a great front end of pres/Eq's
Me: The Neve name... is that why it’s so expensive?
Neve: That’s why it’s worth so much.
Me: Oh...
It's all about your music, you can make a platinum album by using the lowest end gear in your studio. if the audience will love it, that's it!
What do you think of the ssl six?
I think it’s an over-priced waste of plastic to be honest. Again, a product that relies on the roots and heritage of its creators - nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it’s not 1982 anymore. Imagine if Tesla just kept bringing out one and two wheel versions of the Ford model T? We need more forward-thinking products from these companies, not just another feature stripped analogue console.
PresentDayProduction So, which product to you suggest have the same capabilities as the SSL SiX?
Jonas Boström I don’t even care, I don’t want to see another “Everyone will see this mini version of something we did decades ago and think it will make their music sound GREAT!” product in 2020. Or another 1073 clone, or another 1176 clone. I want to see some more manufacturers moving the industry into the year we are in, not trying to wank us off over how much better things were “back in the day”. Companies like McDSP and Tegeler are getting it right, companies like Neve and SSL are playing entirely on their ‘heritage’. Although the Fusion was quite good, but very noisy. And the Genesys is great if you have the price of entry. So buy yourself a 8424 and the SSLSick and make a damn good video of you recording a damn good song, and show us all how great they are, and how they made the song great. Then convince 99.9% of the listeners that what desk you used actually made a massive difference...
PresentDayProduction After you. Buy Tegelar gear for the price of the SSL SiX and make a damn good song with that.
Having so much experience from music recording/production which you claim you have, it’s a little bit strange that you never thought of possible things a console helps your workflow with except from processing the sound.
Jonas Boström All I worked on was consoles and tape machines, for over a decade, so I’m well aware of the workflow, and even more aware of how you don’t need it to make a good record in 2020. You need a damn good song, a damn good band, ANY mics, and an audio interface. I don’t really get what your point is? And I no longer care.... I’m off to make some music 😂 over and out! Please don’t watch any more of our videos, they’re clearly not for you!
Hmmm... The title says "Neve 8424". This is something different. Strange...
Yeah Ive got a SoundCraft LX7II in basically Brand new condition...Ill stick with that......I think SoundCraft with nice Rack Gear and Upgrading to Trident 66 and a Reel To Reel or Tascam 388 or Changing over to Cranborne Summing 500 Series Mixer/ Interface...or the best ways to go at t his point...anything else your being Ripped Off!
I suppose one must be very bold, having a channel called ”PRO audio news”, and then talking about a new product from one of the most respected brands in music business, exposing that you know neither about modern studio work nor have taking the time to read the specs for the console.
Jonas Boström The channel is called “Present Day Production” not “PRO audio news”. And the fact that I’ve have a ton of experience with modern day studio work, and ‘classic’ studio work, long before computers hit the scene, means that my opinion, and it’s only my opinion, is that this console doesn’t fit into most modern studios workflow, and that Neve are so well respected due to a mic preamp created decades ago that sounds, to my ears, woolly (no, I don’t like the 1073, so shoot me down) and a load of vintage desks that break down all the time, and are marketing on that legacy. If Yamaha, or, god forbid, Behringer had brought out a console with these specs (and I have read the specs, very thoroughly) at this price and decided a few months later than an over-priced afterthought automation upgrade might be an idea, they’d be shot down in flames. I also understand the market for this console, and it’s largely studios that have a ton of pre-existing outboard and need a small footprint desk and absolutely must have the revered Neve badge on it. There are far better consoles available for the money, that sound just as good, but really DO slot nicely into the modern day workflow, but have the tools MOST engineers need - automation, DAW control and digital connectivity.
PresentDayProduction It says ”Pro audio news” in the video.
PresentDayProduction I think it’s also very narrow-minded to believe that a company like Neve would spend alot of time (think I read three years somewhere) developing a new product without close contact with a lot of both existing and potential customers.
Which product do you suggest have the same features and quality?
@@JJRockford I am now really curious...i watched nearly every single vid on youtube about that console...cause i want to know what it does...and in every friggin comment i see you go full mother-bear-protection-mode or should i say Justice-Warrior-protect-the-poor-helpless-Neve-brand-shite-mode defending this product...I'm pretty sure you're some sort of ultrabiased fanboy..or you get paid. How can you possibly stalk the whole internet and try to talk down people who dismantled the shittiness of that thing...smells very fishy mate. If you bought it and like..just say.."well it does what i wanted and the price was justified "FOR ME"..but no. You always talk about added specs...like advertisment...ignoring what people want for 24k and realising that (if you are in the Neve-shed) the money spent for developing that thing was sadly bad placed....people tell what they want if they spend 24k...why not give it to them? you got free marketscan here^^.
@@ginfusedsounds I dont really know what you want to achieve with a comment like this, but it really sound like you would need a cup of coffe. Or two :)
And I strongly doubt the comments you are referring to would do as a market scan for a serious (or any) company. But, if you want to test this theory (that it is a good market scan), how would you describe that ultimate product that ”everyone” really wants?
hard for ams-neve to make a mixer without license...............
Neve are great and all but they’re one of the worst examples of Magic Gear Factor. I.e. the idea that if you spend thousands and thousands on some bit of gear that something for a couple of hundred can do perfectly well it’ll sprinkle some undefinable magical pixie dust over your sound, invariably because it was used in the Good Old Days, which of course had nothing to do with the fact it was talented people using it.
I find it especially absurd when it comes to mic pres, which are all but entirely redundant these days when you’re going to have a perfectly good pre already built into your interface if said interface isn’t a load of crap, so you’re spending god knows how much for some sound that few people if anyone will even be able to hear.
no DAW control I don't think so!
You can now £££ add it as an £££ option!
It offers DAW control as an additinal option of you need that.
It’s not often neve disappoints me... as a matter of fact... this is the first. Hope it’s the last.
What where you expecting?
@@JJRockford Preamps and control surfacing, but at least preamps on every channel.
@@jeremyryannoel You have the option to habe that, the 1073opx is very well fit for this.
@@jeremyryannoel Daw control is also an option for the 8424.
32K usd for the additions of 8 1073’s and the 5k automation package with Daw control. It makes more since now .
I agree but it is still priced way above the market
@@jloiben12 So, what could you buy instead?
If someone were to be a new analogue console at this point, I would think that the SSL Matrix 2 would be a much better buy than that Neve.
It depends on your needs. The Matrix have less channels nor onboard processing.
Let you tell it
anybody build a 1073 desk clone with 8 channels for, let's say 7k ?preamps and eq included?I think it's possible.
If they can build great sounding 1176 clones for £199 it’s got to be possible!
Give it a try
@@PresentDayProduction the Golden Age pre 573 Premier's look good?
I got an 8424 and its a huge disappointment. Its my first experience purchasing a Neve product and it really couldn't have gone worse. For a brand with such a "high-end" reputation, the console is really poorly made. If I could do it over again, I would go with something else.
Interesting - thank you for sharing your insight!
Neve 8424 seems like an April Fools joke. (Or a cheap way for them to throw their hat into the $20k range money-grab). They probably believe that adding those (necessary) features like EQ at that price point somehow will devalue their more expensive boxes. Yea - little full of themselves.
So, which other products are you aware of with the same features as the 8424?
It's a Neve ................
bollox on the monitors, its prob your hearing with the neumanns save on the atc fanboy preach and sort the room out and learn using reference is a solid surefire way, get it flat get it right, not everyone is going to listen back on a hifi either, tosh
Thanks for your comment, we’ll reply to that in the next video. In the meantime... please show us your room, explain your acoustics and do a shootout video with Neumann monitors and ATC SCM35 and SCM150 so we can all learn!
@@PresentDayProduction you cant shoot monitors out silly, everyones reference source is different, aka not yours, my room is 40 years of experience having worked on rockfields ssls and vintage neves you clearly dont have a leg to stand on with enquiring about acoustics, i can advise you to go to the bbc studio in swansea to hear the room though as my room is 1 room and i wouldnt suggest atc hi fi speakers to the present day production bedroom massive though ol boy :) that said you gotta love a label right, everybodys brain ears budget room and passion are not going to benefit from a shootout of any kind, plain stupidity as youtube ever so slightly robs the listener of the truth, suck that any way you want though, opinion is what it is
Oh, by the way, the price does not include a stand, speaker shelf, or even a dust cover.
I know. £750 for a stand? That better be some premium oak handcrafted stand with vintage Carnhill transformers in it!
I'd love to win a free microphone
Dam it!!!! (I did the accent and everything)
Deadmau5 use neve 5088 and he says its the best.
Yeah, and I’ve used one myself and it’s awesome, especially fully loaded with Portico processing... but that’s a very different beast! Mic pres, EQ and compression for a start!
That console is Rupert Neve Designs which is a different company. This one is AMS Neve, and they purchased the company from Rupert Neve(who is now 94 years old) back in 1984.
J. Maniac It still doesn’t make it worth over £25,000 in my book though! 😎
@@PresentDayProduction No analog console is worth over 25000. Digital is an improvement. Analog is for aging rockstar engineers that haven't adapted to digital yet. We would get better analog gear for a better price if the industry were able to move on to ICs . There is roll off at 10k in a Neve 1073 preamp and a small bump at 200k. All else is flat. That can be reproduced with an IC or a flat response preamp with an EQ. The old guys got to pack up and go so we can move on.
J. Maniac love it!!
Why should anyone buy this when u can buy a SSL XL-Desk ?
Beacuse s/he might need more channels, routing options, recall and daw control?
So Neve is making a mixer with no automation, no eq or dynamics. They just screwed up the timing. April fools day is 5 weeks away.
Its for Hybrid Mixing an Analog summing not a large format recording console. the larger consoles are phasing out.
I think most people rarely do automation in the consoles anymore. Suppose that you really meant ”DAW control”, which actually is an option here though ;)
Its also not true that the console doesnt have any eq. There are shelving eqs on the groups and master channels.
@@JJRockford You are also starting to see a lot more Argosy Console desks in control and mixing rooms these days. Same with Sterling Modular. Larger format consoles are starting phase out in favor of smaller format cut down consoles that Studio furniture manufacturers like Argosy that have custom console enclosures for them.
This is a joke - Neve go to hell for trying to $$$ gouge customers for this large paperweight.!
HA HA HA HA about neve.
How much would it suck to be a musician who knew a LITTLE about studio gear, booked studio time seeing a Neve board on a website, and then showed up only to find you couldn’t actually record through the desk.?. lol/smh Obviously summing mixers have their place, but it does seem a bit of a cheat to ride your (or “your” 🙄) company’s name into just *SORT OF* giving your customers what they want 😕🤷🏼♂️
A lot of modern music production today doesnt include multitracking on more than max two tracks. However, it’s of course no problem to connect more preamps to this console if you e.g need to record a drum kit. Neve also offers their 1073opx, which can be remote controlled directly from the 8424.
Definitely not a huge fan of AMS Neve switching to basically all Surface Mount parts in nearly all their stuff it seems. SMC can definitely still sound just fine, and there is a place for it, but I dont think that place is in Preamps, EQ's, and Consoles of this price point!
For sure! I’ve had a fair bit of experience with the Portico stuff and it’s been a very mixed bag...
@@PresentDayProduction Right. So do you mean in terms of the Portico stuff being SMC?
The large foot print consoles are a dying breed. This console is for Hybrid mixing.
@@eman0828 Right, I know. I hear you. Kinda doesn't have alot to do with my point though. All good! You know what I mean by Surface mount vs Through hole ya?
Sounds like Neve have become the Apple of the audio recording world. A big fat "name" tax and nothing in return for it.
Can you name any other products from other brands with the same features as the 8424?
@@JJRockford I was trained on a Neve console in 1988 and it sounded absolutely extraordinary! In fact, Neve was the Rolls Royce of audio consoles back then. But as the review pointed out, there are other products pointed to in this video that are much better bang for the buck. You did watch the video, didn't you?
@@ToddSauve Yes I saw it and I dont agree. To my knowledge, there are no products similar to the 8424. There are a couple of good consoles in the same price/quality league, like the SSL XL-desk. But here the 8424 stands out with the recall and (optional) integrated DAW automation. The C input is a very smart feature as well, allowing you to e.g use all channels on mixdown without having to re-connect any patch cables, or doing parallell processing without using aux sends.
The most similar product I can think is the now discontinued Audient Zen. It didnt had recall though.
@@JJRockford Well then, Neve is for you!
not a mixer no eq,compressors etc. peace
Alot of studios already have all the preamps and outboard they need, but might still need the advantages of analog routing, monitoring, metering, summing and so on. Then this is perfect.
@@JJRockford Let me get this straight , so alot of studios have all this expensive outboard gear but they do not have a console , is that right ?
Onesufi johhnybgood I suspect that your question implies that you have a different view.
However, I think we can be very sure about that AMS Neve wont spend three years on developing a product without careful research among existing and potential customers. If uou have made a similar ”survey” and founf that all studios nowadays have a console, please share.
Neve has lost their friggin minds with this one.
This is ONLY for those who have 1073 yazoo syndrome or the engineers watch way too many vidz on mic preS from 50+yr old engineers who they THINK will GUT their console for this!!!
Any suggestions on a product which have the same feature set?
The 30K console ain’t gonna make your music sound better. Consoles in general are overpriced and antiquated these days.
yeah, just get a threadripper and some plugins, $1,000,000 worth of analog emulation, no added noise, no repairs, no physical space limitations.
I started my music making in the late 90’s and went straight ITB, but have since long found that I prefer anything related to monitoring, routing and so one to be analog. Not because it sound better, but because I think the workflow is so much smoother (and you never have to worry about latency even if you do overdubs late in a heavy project).
Jonas Boström I get that. I love analog gear for the latency, and physical controls. However, we should be getting pretty close to having our cake and eating it too.
YOU SAY IT WELL CORNERS HAS BEEN CUT THE SALE PITCH IS A BIT WEAK NOBODY WANTS TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THEY DON'T USED WE IF WE DRIVE A CAR WE WE ALL PAY INSURANCE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU MAKE A CLAIM OR NOT SO IN MY VIEW THE TOOLS THAT WE USE SHOULD BE THERE REGARDLESS. PLEASE NOT ANOTHER BOX WITH BELLS AND NO WHISTLES.
Of course Neve would never spend 3 years developing a new console without careful research of what their existing and potential customers wants.
Meh. I think this mixer is a miss.
What an awful video rom NEVE, really?