This is something I miss from the board gaming industry: an in-depth review of a game after 10+ plays. You cannot get a good feel of a title of this complexity after playing it suboptimally for 1-3 times. It only shines if you invest time and energy into it. You helped me a lot with this video! Thank you.
Thank you for this! Glad we could help. Taking our time to play a game multiple times (or at different player counts or with different setups etc.) is actually one of the reasons we put out episodes when we do and not on a set schedule. We can’t always guarantee it of course, but when we can get a large number of plays in, it is really fun to look at the all the layers a game like this has to offer!
Definitely enjoying this one again. I played it when it first popped up on BGA. And, as you mentioned, fell on my face. It hurt enough I didn't want to play again. Until you mentioned it a few months ago. I watched your play with Matt and finally felt like I understood it better. I wanted to play again and am now a dozen plays in. I'm really enjoying it. The flow of the system is really fascinating.
The story Jon shared about trying to shake things up mid game to catch up reminds me of chess. A great way to get back winning chances is to add complications to the position. Great mindset!
Really enjoyed the discussion. Your experiences match mine so well. First game I fell on my face, subsequent plays I got better and started to dance, then my scores have started to come down as the knives are drawn. Lower scores but higher level play. I really wish though that departments were more meaningful past the first couple, they are mainly built for points rather than use.
By "the first couple" do you mean the first couple you purchase vs those purchased later in the game? If so, then I do see your point. Near the end they do seem like VP oriented actions since you may not have the chance to use them before the game ends. That being said, the early departments you build can be so varied in their options and potential combos that I haven't minded that curve. I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, and the game as well :)
@@GettingGames yes exactly, the first couple that you buy. Unless you have a second lobby they are too far away and/or come too late in the game to get any real use from. It is the only disappointing thing I find about this game that there isn’t really a departments strategy
@@GettingGames thanks! I have an order of three games but one of them is Clank catacombs which I now found out will only be released end of December in Canada so I have got to replace it with something else.
Good conversation! I enjoyed it. I know the game is highly rated... not running out to get it, both because it doesn't really grab me plus I don't think I would find any of my people remotely interested in trying it.
I think that what Nick was talking about is more so in a 2P game. In a four player game wouldn't work because if you choose the action this round it means that you were 2nd last so people saw what you did and planned accordingly. It really feels very different between two and four players.
On some of my BGA games, I've seen a tactic of research multiple times in a row. Even to being done with the track y mid game.im not sure I understand the tactics of it. I guess getting your tracks set and prepping a bunch of disks is OK, and there isn't cube or money cost tk research. So sure,but I don't see the tactics to it like the double manager action you talk about. Note I'm only halfway through the listen, so maybe you'll address it.
Context matters here. Do I make more research than you? Do we make equal but you have an empty advanced research in play? Do I have literally nothing else to do with my turn and I'm waiting for someone to take HR?
Definitely not one of my tops of all time, but I do quite enjoy Carnegie and I think playing it ~70 times speaks for itself. That being said, I think it can only really be played with specific other gamers, so I don't own a copy and I don't intend to.
I did not catch the theme song the last time around - I just went back to listen to its one other appearance (I believe). I think I am going to like it... There's something about the audio levels/talking over bits of it and not bits of it that is taking away from it for me so far. If you're going to talk over it, I feel like the theme song needs to be down in the mix a bit.
Interesting. I messed with this a bunch, going up and down, ramping differently. I personally quite like where it's at right now but that doesn't mean it's "correct". Thanks for the feedback.
The word you are looking for already exists and there is a book that made it popular. It is coopetition. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coopetition. And the adjective used like in game theory is coopetitive 😊
Please pronounce Carnegie properly. This is a Scottish name, not a New Yorker name. car-NAY-gee, not CAR-nuh-gee. This is how he said it, this is how his family said it, this is how it is pronounced. Language matters and should not be discounted.
This is something I miss from the board gaming industry: an in-depth review of a game after 10+ plays. You cannot get a good feel of a title of this complexity after playing it suboptimally for 1-3 times. It only shines if you invest time and energy into it. You helped me a lot with this video! Thank you.
Thank you for this! Glad we could help. Taking our time to play a game multiple times (or at different player counts or with different setups etc.) is actually one of the reasons we put out episodes when we do and not on a set schedule. We can’t always guarantee it of course, but when we can get a large number of plays in, it is really fun to look at the all the layers a game like this has to offer!
Always listen on Spotify but I popped in to say I love this podcast, it's my new favorite! please keep em coming!
Awesome, we really appreciate the comment and it's great to know you are enjoying these :)
Definitely enjoying this one again. I played it when it first popped up on BGA. And, as you mentioned, fell on my face. It hurt enough I didn't want to play again. Until you mentioned it a few months ago. I watched your play with Matt and finally felt like I understood it better. I wanted to play again and am now a dozen plays in. I'm really enjoying it. The flow of the system is really fascinating.
The story Jon shared about trying to shake things up mid game to catch up reminds me of chess. A great way to get back winning chances is to add complications to the position. Great mindset!
Really enjoyed the discussion. Your experiences match mine so well. First game I fell on my face, subsequent plays I got better and started to dance, then my scores have started to come down as the knives are drawn. Lower scores but higher level play. I really wish though that departments were more meaningful past the first couple, they are mainly built for points rather than use.
By "the first couple" do you mean the first couple you purchase vs those purchased later in the game? If so, then I do see your point. Near the end they do seem like VP oriented actions since you may not have the chance to use them before the game ends. That being said, the early departments you build can be so varied in their options and potential combos that I haven't minded that curve.
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, and the game as well :)
@@GettingGames yes exactly, the first couple that you buy. Unless you have a second lobby they are too far away and/or come too late in the game to get any real use from. It is the only disappointing thing I find about this game that there isn’t really a departments strategy
Jon, do you think this game works with two players? If you had to choose, this or space station phoenix? STP seems to get quite repetitive and long.
It plays great at 2p. Between this and SSP, I think Carnegie is the game I prefer overall.
@@GettingGames thanks! I have an order of three games but one of them is Clank catacombs which I now found out will only be released end of December in Canada so I have got to replace it with something else.
Good conversation! I enjoyed it. I know the game is highly rated... not running out to get it, both because it doesn't really grab me plus I don't think I would find any of my people remotely interested in trying it.
I think that what Nick was talking about is more so in a 2P game. In a four player game wouldn't work because if you choose the action this round it means that you were 2nd last so people saw what you did and planned accordingly. It really feels very different between two and four players.
55:20!
On some of my BGA games, I've seen a tactic of research multiple times in a row. Even to being done with the track y mid game.im not sure I understand the tactics of it. I guess getting your tracks set and prepping a bunch of disks is OK, and there isn't cube or money cost tk research. So sure,but I don't see the tactics to it like the double manager action you talk about. Note I'm only halfway through the listen, so maybe you'll address it.
Context matters here. Do I make more research than you? Do we make equal but you have an empty advanced research in play? Do I have literally nothing else to do with my turn and I'm waiting for someone to take HR?
When Jon and Anastasia state their perspective on the game, I am missing Nick's view. So is it for him top 10. Best game of the year, or just meh?
Definitely not one of my tops of all time, but I do quite enjoy Carnegie and I think playing it ~70 times speaks for itself. That being said, I think it can only really be played with specific other gamers, so I don't own a copy and I don't intend to.
I did not catch the theme song the last time around - I just went back to listen to its one other appearance (I believe). I think I am going to like it... There's something about the audio levels/talking over bits of it and not bits of it that is taking away from it for me so far. If you're going to talk over it, I feel like the theme song needs to be down in the mix a bit.
Interesting. I messed with this a bunch, going up and down, ramping differently. I personally quite like where it's at right now but that doesn't mean it's "correct". Thanks for the feedback.
@@GettingGames The other option is to intro very very quick before the music ramps up, or just let people enjoy the vibe before you all talk.
I'll be tweaking the volume levels slightly for the next episode. Eventually I'll find a good set of settings to stick to.
The word you are looking for already exists and there is a book that made it popular. It is coopetition. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coopetition. And the adjective used like in game theory is coopetitive 😊
Please pronounce Carnegie properly. This is a Scottish name, not a New Yorker name. car-NAY-gee, not CAR-nuh-gee. This is how he said it, this is how his family said it, this is how it is pronounced. Language matters and should not be discounted.
Relax
Chill dude..