Iceman Still Sucks
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Iceman Still Sucks
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Art by Just Some Guy
Original trailer concept: Bleach Opening 01
Music: "Enkon Hakuchuumu" by Sakagami Souichi - Copyright (C) 2015 Trial & Error/Sakagami Souichi All rights reserved.
Trial & Error: www.tandess.com... - Розваги
Marvel retconned Ice Man into being gay in an attempt to draw attention and be more progressive. Instead they ended up ruining the character, they've just written him so horribly, hanging on the fact that he's gay as if that immediately makes him better than before.
Honestly I'm against turning straight characters gay. It just seem so pandering since they could of easily made a new character who is gay or make a pre-existing character that show no canon relationship gay, it just feels like they guys have no faith in themselves to make a likable gay character so they have to ruin another character by not only making him gay but making him the most unlikable ass in the series. They should of NEVER turn Iceman gay, they should of just made a new ice based hero or just an X-Men who is gay and once that happen get someone who actually understand and can write gay characters without it coming off as stereotypical.
William Parcel And it was soooooooo fucked up the way they did it too. Like it took less than three panels to make a core X-Man gay. Like the way they did it with Jean Grey pretty much made it look like she mind-controlled Bobby Drake into a homosexual. I swear to God that's what it seemed like.
I haven't read every Xmen so, what happened to Northstar, the real gay Xmen hero?
@@TheNateRule nothing, I don't even know if they know he exists. Alpha flight showed up in a bunch of Captain Marvel comics but he was the one member that didn't show up, it's like they're avoiding him for some reason. He's not the 'right kind' of gay.
@@retrogamer6403 they didn't even have to create a new gay character. They had plenty of established gay characters. This is fake progressive
11:45 Yeah, there are effeminate straight guys. I went to school with one. Nice guy. Unfortunately he was very hetero and girls thought he was gay. Very frustrating for him.
My housemate is effeminate straight man. He accepts gay guys are gonna hit on him but he soldiers on. Steve Buschemi is effete but not gay. Effeminate guy gays are huge in Japan. American comics are so backwards.
TheRapper10000 well that didn't take long
XD
@TheRapper10000 you go 0 to 100 real quick
Guilty of that. I do get my share of gay guys hitting on me, which is frustrating but I also take it as a compliment in a way. But perfectly hetero. Wife and kids and picket fences and what have ya.
So basically Bishop is the best character in the series so far.
Basically yeah
Muh libraries
Muh mainstream media
Muh Scholastic
Muh GLAAD
FOH
Iceman Still Sucks. Breaking news! Water is wet, & Fire is hot!
Iceman doesn't deserve this.
No one deserves this.
Oohhh. I heard about this one.
The creators aren't being subtle is really what kills this book for me. I honestly don't mind a connection to politics in comics, but when you do it, be subtle. Not only will it date your comic in a bad way. (Imagine explaining this to someone in 25 years), but it makes the writers look really immature.
I really feel bad for people who are being "represented" by this book. It's almost like...a cruel joke. It's not even entertaining at the end. It's just sad.
When what should be the undertone is the main pushing point it creates bad writing. Even in old X Men Comics where Mutant = Black they didn't have the Mutants get attacked by Dogs and being sprayed by Water Hoses by the sentinels
Comics like watchmen does the political undetones quite well and even holds up to this day. The issue with today's comics is that they shove the politics in your face than focus on the story and characters. Current marvel comics barely hold up today and i doubt it's gonna hold 25-30 years later.
Suggesting woke Marvel will be around for 25-30 years.
Retro Gamer if anything, marvel’s comic department will be shut down entirely. Hell it’s starting to happen now, disney is giving IDW to rights to make marvel comics.
*implies this will be remembered years later.
I should not check my phone. I'm sitting in the car watching this instead of going inside and sleeping.
You are ComicsGate!
Fuck sleeping! We can't defeat Marvel sleeping!
Luiz Guilherme Majuri crime never sleeps
@@MakB546 And Iceman is a crime against literature and good taste.
Ronald Frechette we must *MELT HIM*
I said it before and I’ll say it again... Sina Grace turned Iceman into the LGBT+ to a minstrel show. He couldn’t have been more stereotypical if he were constantly sucking on phalic-shaped food in every panel... DX
There have been more dignified and likable characters that came out of Family Guy cutaways. Hell, Mr. Slave and Big Gay Al are better gay characters than Sina Grace’s Iceman and they are SUPPOSED to be comic relief!
Don't even get me started on those faces and gestures Ice Man is doing on just about every damn panel. That shit was offensively bad 20 years ago, let alone now...
Iceman was at one point in time one of my favorite characters. Now they have ruin him to the point that he is completely unrecognizable
This issue should be called "90s Overdosed", because that's all Grace did, throw in 90s reference after 90s reference. Bobby's a 90s gay stereotype, he references Vanilla Ice by riffing off of Ice Ice Baby, and the ninja styled mooks look like Noob Saibot.
Leave the 90s behind Sina, the rest of us have.
Jean Gentry we meet again but yes I agree with your view on this
Still up to this day nobody around him ask why is suddenly gay. Taking into account that the shadow king been into his mind, Professor X, organ le fay, the white Queen, Mister Sinister, and any other telepathic x-men and the super heroes and villains that can read minds.
Marvel still trying to sell us the Bs that even the most cruel and ruthless villains took pity on him instead on preying on his secret to take advantage on a fight, in the past 50 years?
I still don't...(insert Captain Picard Epic double face palm, here)
Grace thinks it's clever to have everyone in the comic be tired of super gay Bobby, besides Kitty Pryde I guess. It's not. Meta humor is the easiest thing you can do. You're not sounding smart. You don't sound clever. You're just drawing attention to the fact that even you don't like the you you're pretending Bobby Drake is. Work out your own issues and stop using comics as a crutch.
Eh at least Bishop been putting in work at the X-Gym.
Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?
It's a good thing we can buy the omnibus of 80's-90's XMEN & some early 2000's
JSG smashes it out of the park again. Run and get the ball Sina.
Perfect they've made gay deterant with this comic.
LOL
I think that this version of Iceman is due to the Deadpool effect.
The two Deadpool movies were so popular that there is a trend for lazy writers to "Jump on the band wagon" and try to copy that popularity and make characters into literal bad Deadpool clones.
The best Homosexual character, along with the best interactions with a homosexual character, is from the game Secret World Legends (formally The Secret World) with Sandy "Moose" Jansen and Deputy Andy.
Moose. a 40 or 50 year old former accountant turned biker after a nervous breakdown, comes to the town of Kingsmouth just before a sort of Zombie Apocalypse type of disaster and is saved by the introverted Deputy Andy.
Basically Deputy Andy is a man who is extremely emotionally damaged, because his dad didn't want an effeminate son so he emotionally abused him to scare the possibility of him being gay away.
Over several mission cutscenes and several lines of dialogue there is a really well written heartwarming possible budding romance between them. In only approximately 10 minutes tops of content.
Man I haven't heard about the secret world in a long time is the game still alive
Yes and no.
The original game, The Secret World" is still "up" and playable but is not updated anymore.
Last year they did re-release it as "Secret World Legends" and that game is still being worked on.
It has a much more user friendly battle system (sadly it's not a customisable as it used to be, but it's not a huge problem), a much smoother progression system and all of the game is free (you don't have to purchase any mission packs anymore) all of the previous mission packs have been merged into the games story.
The only gripe is that they have expanded the in game shop to have microtransactions for boosts and cosmetic items. Plus there is a lootbox system.
The good thing about that is that they have not "Taken the piss" and gone overboard with it (Such as will EA and Battlefront II).
It's actually one of the "best" usage of monetisation I have seen in a game.
It's feels like an addition, for you buying anything from it and not the games "purpose" like with almost all other games now. You can easily play through the entire game without ever needing to buy anything with "real" cash.
www.secretworldlegends.com/
Adulting is just too hard for some people.
I would suggest they stop this shit and give NorthStar a series as their lead gay but they would hand it to Sina Grace or Gabby Rivera and we are right back here.
Your description of gay, macho, and feminine men was golden. Amazingly said, love it!
If at first you don't succeed. Fail fail again
If it aint broke, hit it harder
Iceman was among my favorite X-Men characters. I'd say it's sad to see how badly they've ruined him but that is par for the course when it comes to Marvel these days.
There was a time in my life I spent $50 a month minimum on Marvel comics. Normally it would be $100+. I haven't spent a penny on them in a few years now.
As long as Sina Grace is still writing this book, Iceman will always suck.
Emma Frost did have a gay brother who her father sent for conversion therapy. So they might try to spin that she kept his secret because of that. But that would still be horrid writing.
That is absolutely true about Emma Frost. She was in his head, she used Iceman's powers in ways he never did before. So she would have been the most aware, besides Professor X, on his sexuality. And considering how much of a bitch she was/is she would have taken advantage of that knowledge and used it against him.
Marvels attempt to broaden their readership didn't work.
Iceman was a cool character. No pun intended. Then stupid people making stupid decisions started the toilet to flushing 30 years of comic book stories & sales.
There's a saying...If it aint broke don't fix it. After Disney acquires all of Marvels property then the entire stable of characters will be unrecognizable.
I think you have the best description of this comic book I've seen yet.
I thought Morlocks were savage off shoots of humanity that fed on lesser offshoots of humanity?
Oh wait, that was a good book.
I am reminded of Key & Peele's "Office Homophobe" sketch. You know who Bobby is.
I love the original X-men Comics. They’re a big reason I got into selling comics. Speaking of which, we have had in our store for almost 10 years, a full set of the original iceman mini series for sale. Mint. Unread. Bagged and boarded. Priced below cover price.
Can’t sell it. Actually tried giving it away. We’re still stuck with it.
THATS the reality.
-MR. X
I could write a better Iceman.
I could write a better gay superhero
And I'm a fundamentalist Christian.
Sylva Luca i also could and i am a conservative
Something something urethra. Something something Hank Hill.
My favorite UA-cam channel. Keep it up!
6:38 what's with the beyonce reference? pop culture references can work, but that one was very forced. who brings up a singer during a danger room combat simulator?
Beyonce is God to these freaks.
@@kanna-san. I mean, she's a good singer and all, but is anyone really worth worshipping?
So many SJW writers seem intent on working out their mental problems through their characters. In the good old days, editors (unlike Breevoort) kept this stuff out of comics.
Oh, in the old days, comic writers worked their issues out (or indulged in thier fantasies) through the comics, but tight editing permitted it when it worked, and filtered it out when it didnt. Let's not forget that Clairemont's taste for BDSM and his infautation with Storm became a staple in the XMen comics. Also, the creator of Wonder Woman freely admitted to there being an erotic/BDSM element to the character.
I was introduced to Iceman through the movies as kid and he was my favorite from the start. So I went on to read and learn more about Bobby. Now I just want Marvel to kill off Bobby for good because he went from a beloved iconic character to a full on embodiment of The Scrappy trope.
Please never change your intro.
I blame Jean
Did Bishop close his mouth once this entire comic? I swear, he's got Daisy Ridley syndrome in this book.
Spiderman and his amazing friends for the win
I thought the "whatever hapless means" was your personal commentary, and for just a second, I lost some respect for you. Then I saw that's actually part of the book and, well ... shit. That's just bad writing on every level.
Interesting ... that wanted flyer could possibly be an ABBA reference via a song called "One of Us."
As someone who was born and has lived there whole life in NYC, let me just say. Why on God’s green earth does anyone think that immigration central is filled to the brim with insensitive people who can’t stand change? As a matter of fact, NYC is a incredibly diverse place, what does anyone care if you happen to be not straight, white or male. It’s just really infuriating to see people think that the gateway into America is like that.
"Iceman still sucks" not sure if that was intentional
I never really like iceman, even before he became gay, although that didn't help matters. His personality was never very likable to me and there were so many better characters on the team. also, I've never heard the term "sounding" used in a gay way before. Where I come from a sounding is when you tie a weight to the end of a rope with knots on it to mark off each fathom and you throw the weight overboard a ship and have a guy taking up the slack and counting off fathoms so the captain or whoever is steering the boat knows just how close to the shore he can get before he has to drop anchor or swing hard to starboard to try and beach her.
omg I feel so bad for the artist drawing and illustrating this book
I would love to know what public Librarians would Stock "How many copies of TPB of Iceman, cause as far as I know ,their Not in the business, of carrying more than just 2-copie of any TPS, Most aren't Comics, just like they don't collect , Romance novel, or school books, there a very small section of TPB comics, they don't get these TPB books until years from now, most or the TPB that they do have are from the 90's (No 80's or 70's) NO-NEW stuff
You do realize that this the same company that took 60 years to give spider-man a true sence of responsibility you know the thing they've always said was the key point of his character sence the beginning of his comic. Marvel really isn't all that great when it comes to writing personality for a character and sticking with it.
Can the retailers cooperate to put all the unwanted overships in a pile and then send this pile to the Marvel main office (maybe even do a croudfund to cover the shipping costs - iirc they coudn't ship it back bc it's too expensive to do every time)?
Yeah, for real. You know he’s watching...
Dude i love your channel
ice man gay -Lando Pansexual.
LMAO 😆 @14:25 “Cornchips and jizm taint”
"don't look up sounding"
Can't tell me not to when I already know what it is
If they wanted to do something original with the character, they should play up that Jean Grey basically made him gay. He should realize this and come to terms with having had this done to him. It would be a very fresh, inventive story. Have you ever read a story before about a guy who learns one of his friends changed him into a homosexual without his permission?
In fanfiction I have infact before Iceman was turned Gay in canon I had found an interesting amount of ones where Jean was the culprit
It should be Bishop comic. That would actually be a good time.
Damn everybody is talking about Iceman today.
anyone remember Mad? they once did a parody off of X-Men, whichever one had Iceman, and when they parodied the scene of him telling his parents that he was a mutant, one of the X-Men, I think it was cyclops, joked that it was like Iceman was coming out of the closet and gay. seeing this happen, I wonder if Sina made Iceman gay for that reason, for taking that Mad comic too literally.
oh well, i'm a little late watching this so I doubt anyone will read this anyway.
I really don’t like they made ice man gay call me what you want
I always bring up Louise Simonson's last run on X Factor. Drawn by Whilce Portacio, she had him fall in love with a Japanese GIRL(!) who is kidnapped by cyborgpunk kungfu guys working for her grandpa who take her to Japan. He follows, and spends two or 3 issues being about the baddest ads action hero you've ever seen. Now he's... This? Pathetic.
Nah. Gimme Iceman X Rogue romance from back in the day.
Smells like "corn chips and jizm taint"
LMAO.
If you want to see well made gay characters take a look to Midnighter and Apollo.
9:40 idk how that Ezra Miller joke ages
You did great with Ethan!
Maybe he doesn't like Iceman. Maybe he doesn't like...
who's divine? no seriously.... born in '96. who is this person?
also, i have seen people use fairies as a slur against gays, but personally, i think the insult is so lame, that it's hard to be offended by it
Divine was a drag queen who appeared in a couple of John Waters's film. John Waters is a director who makes counter culture films, and occasional cult hits like Hairspray, Cry Baby, and Serial Mom.
What JSG said. Also, Divine was the visual inspiration for Ursula the Sea Witch from The Little Mermaid.
For the love of god, Dorje, have mercy on the poor man. He may not be ready for the mind-opening experience that is Pink Flamingos.
Petite would work better.
I how cool forgot Bishop is.
No! It’s a sandbox icedick. Yep, worse than even my twisted mind could come up with.
Two things: (1)Now that you mentioned it, you might not be wrong about "libraries" probably saving Iceman, because I have seen trade collections being sold at one of my local bookstores - not Iceman necessarily, but somewhat recent stuff, if not from at least 5 or so years ago.
(2)I didn't even know that was an ice shaft. I thought it was a bizarre slush cup, so though weird, I thought it wasn't anything sexual. The heck were they thinking?
I do agree that Bobby legit sounds annoying here. Book could be considered enjoyable if only the main character wasn't so cringy all the time. I think Deadpool has had more toned down stories, despite him actually being characterized as a comedic annoyance that can kill people. Did dig your take on the book, man. Kind of wish it had been a more serious book starring Bishop, seeing as he's the more tolerable part of this.
First sign of an incompetent who refuses to learn, blames everyone around him.
" Sina Grace on Writing Iceman at Marvel: "I Was Surrounded by Cowards" .
I kind of lost it on the first sentence of this video what the hell.
This is disgusting what they hav done to poor Bobby Drake.
Looks like Cena grace might actually be setting up a redemption arc here...
Do they also force them to pay for the double they didn't ask for?
They brought it back with the same writer.A wise man once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over,while expecting different results.
Can I get the real Iceman back? I know over the years different writers wrote characters a little different. But with good writers, they have it as a developed story that takes time. This jackass just decided one day to say I am going to completely change Iceman's personality to super flamer, self absorbed asshole, and the reason for it is because he's gay. And of course, he is gay because he was told he was gay. I guess that is why Iceman is supposed to be a joke to everyone else around him because this version of Iceman is a joke.
I think this iceman is just a skrull infiltrator
“Whatever ‘hapless’ means” could be improved by just adding “in this city” because New York has no innocents in Marvel, not really. It’s one of the most corrupt cities IRL so it would make sense for it to just get more so with super heroes and villains.
Uhhh, did you forget about the spider-man and his amazing friends reunion in it? That didn't suck.
Do the retailers have to pay for the extra orders?
No, but they can't return the books, so they're stuck with product they can't sell.
@@JustSomeGuy make a chair out of them. That can be more useful for these things.
Could he have written Bishop as somebody he was attracted to admired from a far?
For real Aokiji from One Piece is a better Ice based hero then Iceman, and he's not even really a hero
Riley Freeman I don’t know what ur talking about Aokiji is the only real marine hero of luffy”s generation (not counting future koby)
SkeithKing Well thats true to some degree, he still was technically an antagonist before he left the Marines, I mean he was still trying to stop Ace and Luffy from escaping Marineford and he knew full well that they'd both end up getting executed if they didn't leave, even after Ace got killed by Akainu Aokiji still tried to stop Luffy from escaping, so although he's never been a straight up villain, he wasn't a hero either, obviously this does change after he leaves the Marines, but as of now he's allied with the Blackbeard pirates and since Blackbeard is one of the series main villains this does raise some questions about Aokiji's true motives since we don't know what he's been doing and haven't seen him since the end of the Punk Hazard arc
@@rileyfreeman1680 well... Ace is a pirate. Pirates are bad. Just because some pirates are good doesn't mean it's okey to be a pirate. So technically aokiji is a hero
Being a hero and being seen as a hero are 2 different things. While Aokiji does have a moral compass and does seem to try to do the right thing, in the context of the One Piece story he started as an antagonist to the protagonists and did try to kill Luffy in Marineford. Now to the rest of the world who don't know Luffy they see this as good, but to us the viewer/reader we know all the good Luffy's done for the world, so trying to kill him is the act of an antagonist. Now that Aokiji isn't tied to the Marines anymore he could really be an actual hero, but upon his introduction and his actions in Marineford, as a viewer/reader of One Piece you couldn't say he was acting as a hero. One more point is that even though he was against the bombing of Ohara he still killed a fellow Marine (Jaguar D. Saul) for trying to save Robin, even if he was only following orders thats still not the action of a hero. Like I say now that he's not in the marines he can do real good (well we need to see, since he's allied with Blackbeard right now), but just because he was seen as a hero during his time as a marine doesn't necessarily mean he was one. That's one of the reasons why he left, because under Akainu he felt the marines couldn't be actual hero's.
Hell Haku from Naruto is a better hero then this incarnation of Iceman and he was used as a tool by a bad guy who turned out to be a anti-hero later on it seemed
I guess I know why Daredevil didn't stick around in Hell's Kitchen.
He may be blind but he can still hear and smell bullshit
Sina Disgrace, ladies and gentleman.
“Sounding villains”..😅 I died
They do ma boi Bobby Drake dirty!!
#MakeIcemanStraightAgain.
Why can't we get the old Iceman back as in the one that spams Ice Beams and Artic Attack?
It is dumb they ruined Bobby and gave him a poor shake. What makes us love iceman is how much fun he is while being funny. His flirty nature is also a major part of his character.
Imagine my shock.
This used to be one of my favourite characters...
my dad showed me the "Spider-Man and his amazing pals show" from the 60's wen i was little and even back then i thought he was gay.
It was a cartoon show called spiderman and his amazing friends ... of course somebody was going to seem gay !
In other news: water is wet.
Didn't Family Guy do Ice Man sliding into a gay strip club? They changed his entire story for a 15 second Family Guy cutaway.
That's harsher in hindsight.
"ice man still sucks", more ways than one
Good artists like Nathan Stockman should stop purging their online portfolios prior to working in the mainstream, because after their first rushed Marvel comic comes out, no one is going to believe they can draw.
I'm going to say, Grace only wrote Iceman and someone else did Bishop. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Bobby Drake was my favorite X-man. I will never forgive them for putting him through Mutant Telepathic Conversion Therapy...