Penn Station New York - 2023 Breakdown
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- For my creator vlog and NYC shenanigans → / urbancaffeine
The first time I ever went to Penn station, I couldn’t find it! That’s because as popular as it is, it exists underground and borrows its landmark from Madison Square Garden. Today it has Moynihan Train Hall as its headhouse. But Moynihan still does not cater to all train systems that go through Penn Station. Renovations are happening now to improve the visibility of the original Penn Station, but that is months from now. So in this video, I am breaking down how it’s all laid out so you can better navigate your way through this hidden (yet important) train station.
Penn Station services the Amtrak, the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR), NJ Transit, the New York Subway, and soon-to-be Metro-North Railroad.
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Whenever I think about penn station I am reminded of the master piece we destroyed in the 1960s
It’s a shame, but at the time there wasn’t anything prevent it, it was private property and there was no protection for historical landmarks.
So true. If there's any consolation from that, Penn Station's loss sparked the city's historic preservation movement and ultimately saved Grand Central from a similar fate.
Yup
In 1963, the Pennsylvania Railroad couldn't afford its upkeep, and the City of New York wasn't willing to pay for upgrades and maintenance. And there wasn't a good alternative at the time for the location of a new Madison Square Garden.
I think in 2023, New York City may have to land necessary to build a new Madison Square Garden, tear down the current MSG, and try to rebuild something close to the original Pennsylvania Station (but way less expensive to maintain). But is anyone will to shell out what amounts to US$25 to US$30 billion to pull this off?
Same thing in Boston. We have 3 transit hubs here. North, South, and Back Bay Station. South Station and Back Bay are obvious but North Station Is buried under TD Garden.
Thank you so much! I've been lost, wandering around in Penn Station for seven years, looking for an exit. This video has given me the strength to go search one more time before just curling up in a ball in some corner and dying.
I still can’t believe they won’t reopen the preexisting Gimbel’s tunnel to connect the 34th St Herald Square station to Penn Station. Having to go outside to connect when it’s raining is offensive.
Same thing happened in Philly. They closed the tunnel you used from 30th Street Station to the Market St Subway. Now you have to go outside, cross a busy street and down some steep stairs. NOT good if you're handicapped.
I love being able to hop on the train to go right to a game, but cmon man, no commuter should ever have to put up with the busiest transit hub on the continent being so awfully designed.
It’s nice to see all of the new renovations that have been rolled out in the last few months tho, so there is hope
Because of this video, I'm going to hop on the LIRR soon and take a joy ride out to Montauk and back. I've always meant to do this and because of you, I'm gonna! 🤩
That's a long, boring trip my friend....😂
@@JimAllen-Persona Thanks for the heads up, but I'm that guy that just loves to ride. It's never boring for me.
for readers to better understand the scope of this, it's a 3 hour and 15 minute ride on average one way
A designated NJ Transit video could be so helpful
I think that Penn Station needs its own place but I feel like Madison Square Garden is also the perfect urban entertainment venue! Its so hard to conceptualize where it would move to.
Its easy accessibility by transit is part of what makes it great
Move MSG to Hudson Yards. Simple.
@@safuu202 Nah you're talking about taking a year round used iconic arena from within a block or 2 of 14 Subway lines, 2 PATH lines, and 2 commuter rail networks and just slapping it onto the end of the 7. No thank you. Maybe if they could send the L up 10th Avenue and the 7 across the Hudson it could work.
Moynihan Train Hall is a nice breath of fresh air for Penn Station. Unfortunately I don't use it that much as I have to be in one of the first cars of the LIRR train which platforms on the 7th Ave side of Penn Station. They are fixing up the LIRR concourse which seems to be coming along nicely. The rest of the Penn Station area where Amtrak used to have all their operations and where NJT is still needs improvements. Amtrak still has a waiting lounge in the regular Penn Station but it is not as crowded as everyone usually utilizes Moynihan Train Hall.
NJ Transit also runs limmited service on Tracks 13, 14, & 15 a few times a week.
I miss going to the arcade in the late 1970s. I spent many an after school day playing pinball and video games.
I think of Penn Station in the 1980's when I came through from NJ. Dumpy but it was what I had and it got me into the city. I knew it like the back of my hand, so getting around was no problem. Having MSG above it was important to people that attended sporting and music events and not have to venture out into the city. High chance of getting mugged outside the station. Was only at Moynihan Hall briefly last year and all I saw was long lines of people everywhere. It is all the same really, just keep your head down and get on the train.
Not to mention parking and TRAFFIC if you drive there. Any venue that dumps 20k people out at one time is going to take hours to get out of if you drive. The Washington Redskins were NUTS to build an 80k seat stadium in a place with no rail transit. I heard the Yankees almost did the same thing, but saner heads prevailed.
Very much appreciate how you broke down the analysis of Penn Station. Well done (from a retired City Planner in LA but who was raised in NYC).
Love your stuff! Thanks for keeping me entertained :)
Excellent video! Thank you. Great job!
Great summary of the Penn Station, thank you! So as I read, on the rise of mass car ownership, rail ridership declined and in 1961 Pennsylvania Railroad decided to demolish the original building and rent out the space to generate income. The demolishing alone lasted 3 years, crazy.
thanks for your video! helps a lot
You rocked this. Great job.
This video is very educational and informative. Thank you! I hope to visit NYC soon 😊
As a traveller to New York for the first time in April 2023, I used Penn Station a few times. Is like the Tardis as does not look big on the outside but is on the inside. The station is not well signposted but if use Apple maps then is easy enough to find. I liked to use it due to its many options for travel like the subway and train to JFK airport. Found the subway not as clear as I thought it would be but practice makes perfect. Would not even bother with taxis or Uber unless you are in a panic.
Using the Penn Station app is a really good way to find your way around underground. It overlays your location on a map of the station. My daughter was doing an internship in the City and used it to navigate once she got off the LIRR to get to the 8th Avenue side (and my daughter can get lost inside a paper bag).
You didn’t mention the biggest planned improvement from an NJ transit riders POV. A second tunnel under the Hudson has just started construction. Once completed and opened the original tunnel will be closed and renovated. This will make NJ transit riders lives so much better. Let’s hope that by the time it’s finished the trains will have a nicer terminus!
Well the plans are to have penn Station upgraded by the time all 4 tunnels are operational.
Excellent videos - we are planning our first trip in 40 years and find your information clear and informative! Than you!
Thanks Urban 🎉
I took the LIRR for the first time 2 weeks ago. My only concern was not being sure where to go since the MTA tells me that my train is located in two separate locations Penn Station and Moynihan. I found my track entrance on my walk towards, but not quite at Moynihan from Penn Station.
Nice video Thea! Since you’ve covered NYC’s busiest transit hub, I can say that you are on the right track! (Ba dum tss!)
Thank you for this video ! You are very good to describe, show and add details (like pointing hands and graphics) to make the info interesting. It helps me plan my NY visit in August !❤❤❤
I am so glad to find your videos! It’s making it easier for our return trip by train (not plane-yay) from Long Island to Chicago. Just hoping that the signs to get us to directed up to the Amtrak metropolitan lounge will be clear. But looking forward to our trip!
Hopefully Penn Station will be a much better hub by the time it gets its fifth railroad (Metro-North) in the next few years too!
Fun fact, there is a blocked off underground corridor that goes from Penn all the way to 6th avenue, so you could have Moynihan, Penn and the PATH/6th Avenue subway all connected underground.
It was called the Gimbels Passageway because it went right by Gimbels Department store. It was closed in the 80's because of high crime.
Great video! Thanks for sharing this. When I was commuting on NJ Transit out of penn station, I would use the app (and the departure board that used to be on the West side concourse :/) to board NJ Transit trains from Moynihan Station. You have to be prepared to dash if they call a train on tracks 1-4, but it was nice to be waiting somewhere other than Penn (and especially the pit).
I love Penn Station same time I’m glad it’s getting a major makeover and renovation, it’s like underground city from above New York also on top of Madison Square Garden and Moynihan Train Hall.
At 5:12, you suggest Amtrak (and LIRR) passengers should “just go to Moynihan Train Hall.”
It really depends on whether you want a pretty station to look at, or fast boarding and good seats.
If you go to Moynihan, that’s where you’ll get horribly long lines through a single bottleneck and inefficient boarding, with a waiting room that's full so it's hard to find a power outlet.
If you want to get a good seat, or a pair of seats traveling together, DON’T GO THERE!
Go to the Amtrak concourse of the old Penn Station, or better yet, for advanced or daring people, go to the NJ Transit level’s “exit concourse” one flight down and watch the Amtrak monitor screens for track assignments.
(And true experts can just wait directly at the track level, but probably not if you're watching this video; just remember to prioritize/yield to disembarking passengers.)
(p.s. "signage" is always singular and it's "Two Penn Plaza," thanks!)
Good points, thanks for sharing!
Ooh the new Penn Station keeps getting better
I heard they just opened a Gong Cha bubble tea place in Penn station, so happy I don’t have to run to Ktown to get my bubble tea before catching the train
Thank you for this information. I am going to catch a train in the Moynihan Train Hall. Your diagram showed me where the parking garage is going to be for me on 33rd Street. Thank you so much for your great review.
Good luck!
Moynihan is excellent and easy to maneuver, I hope the "new" Penn Station is like it and rises like a Phoenix from its ashes. Great video, well done!!
Man that's crazy
I heard that MSG is going to be here at least another 10 years now. What they need to do for Amtrak and NJ Transit is built that extra tunnel to Penn Station so they can add extra trains into service to move passengers in and out must faster to reduce the crowds in the stations. Great video as always Thea Big thumbs up 👍😎
It is confusing but I don't want my Knicks to relocate 😢
Good video Thea. Looking forward to my new york trip later this month. Am going to have to deal with Penn Station on my trip as i want to do a day trip to Atlantic city and I want to go by train rather than the bus. Nothing online definitely gives the best train option. Keen on getting suggestions from any locals please.
Take Amtrak to 30th Street Station in Philadelphia, then a New Jersey Transit train to AC
Good video, thanks. About 10 years ago I was invited by NJ Transit to participate in a focus group study looking for ways to direct more foot traffic away from the main east-west passageways of the station, and into the little known Hilton Passageway. Fast forward a decade later and we're seeing some nice but ultimately still cosmetic improvements. It's still a hodgepodge of a facility with fatal defects. Only three cramped restrooms serving nearly a half-million daily passengers; and look at your own description of the Moynihan train hall and its lack of complete integration into the "main" station. It's all about the money, billions of dollars of it. Until there's a city-state-federal-public/private consensus on fixing all of this, improvements will continue to be one band-aid after another.
The closest replica of Pennsylvania Station is in Philadelphia whch opened in 1933.
Metro-North trains into Penn Station will be glory!!
I went into Moynihan Hall looking for NJ transit booths/tracks and was directed across the street. Seems strange it's not more connected within that building
The tracks 1-5 are close to the 31 street side on the other side of 8th ave. There is no way to provide access to them from Moynihan.
The James A. Farley building is still a post office. It's just now connected to Moynihan Train Hall and Penn Station
penn station nyc looks like jigsaw puzzle.
side note: any metro north extensions should charge the amtrak fares to make building them easier.
With old Penn Station we arrived in NYC like gods, until Moynihan hall, were were arriving like rats. Hope the renovation works.
Interesting. Do you get the ReThink Pennsylvania Station? Amtrak relocated all personnel to Moynihan. FYI: The HighLine will open a bridge to connect to Moynihan later this year.
Do You have a video of the penn station renovation??
Thank you for a great overview. Even as a "local", I still get completely discombobulated and can't find the entrance to Penn Station, and I've been doing it a long time. You are very smart, Althea.. you make great points! I've spent most of my younger years going into the city via Penn Station on the LIRR. I'm only 32, and used to go to doctors appointments, see family in Manhattan, and go to museums. I still do but live on Long Island. Yeah, Penn Station used to be a dungeon, and I guess I got very comfortable with it. To me, it was a very simple design, and while not pretty, it served its purpose. But, I've now used Moynihan a lot. It's beautiful! I once upgraded my Amtrak to the Roommette, and got access to the lounge at Moynihan. I've only done it once, but I felt really good. Food is very expensive in Moynihan Station. Some of the designs are beautiful but feel a little sterile. There is little seating around Moynihan... I know it is to discourage homeless hanging out, but it is super annoying if you are tired. Anyways, thanks for an insightful review!
I agree about the seating. Most people shouldn't have to sit on the floor when waiting for their train.
Watched your past video on using the Long Island railroad , and everything worked out perfect for us . Thank you for the information you put out ! I enjoyed New York .
Use my name on your next video this is a comment from Gerald . 🎉 😉
The powers that be at Albany should seriously consider moving the Madison Square Garden elsewhere and rebuild NY Penn from the ground up. I used the decrepit pre-Moynihan Hall NY Penn to commute to clients for years and I can’t remember a single time that I enjoyed being in it. Quite the opposite, the feeling I got of getting into a dark dungeon upon entering the station and feeling exhausted by the time I exit. I got to experience the Moynihan Hall when I briefly moved to Long Island during the pandemic and I can say the experience couldn’t be more different. The Moynihan Train Hall is an outstanding facility.
Okay but you can't just move a 20000 seat arena
As far as Madison Square Garden is concerned there are a couple of short-term solutions:
1. The Knicks could share the arena in Brooklyn...it works in LA
2. The Rangers could share with the Devils...there's also the original home of the Islanders.
...like I said...short-term ..
@@jimbobogie8204 but Madison Square Garden is also private property
@@ommy7672 nobody said it can be done easily. It will require a lot of talks amongst the stakeholders and medium to long-term planning. Even if they start negotiating today, it will take decades to get it done. They will have to secure the finances, look for a suitable relocation site, build it while keeping the current Garden open and then they can finally tear it down and rebuild NY Penn. There is no doubt that it will be expensive. There is doubt that the reconstruction will take years. But the payoff is going to be immense and New York will reap the benefits for decades. It will pay off in the long run.
@@EliF-ge5bu Maybe do a study on it
Seeing this brought back memories to my NY trip. We stayed across the street from Moynihan on 33rd Street. And of course if I would’ve done the proper research I would’ve saved a lot of money and taken the NJ Transit from EWR instead of a Lyft, at 6PM, through the Lincoln Tunnel.
Such an icon idk if I would want MSG relocated
The LIRR is the most used transit system in Penn Station but nobody accesses it via Moynihan because it’s on 8th Avenue. Everybody wants to access it via 7th Avenue because it’s much more convenient to the subway system. Unfortunately the 7th Avenue waiting area has been partially redone and so far is definitively NOT impressive. In conclusion only Amtrak riders use Moynihan station and they make up s small percentage of daily ridership, so to all us serious regular commuters (LIRR/NJ TRANSIT) it has been a huge waist of money.
Even with Penn Access, it doesn't really connect people on the Harlem Line or stations west of New Rochelle on the New Heaven. And well the Hudson line if that plan doesn't work out. I wish there was a one seat GCT - Penn Station connection though tbf the subway isn't that bad
I used to work in 2 Penn, taking the train to work or the job site. Last night I came into penn from EWR, I was very confused. How to get out of the station? My plan was to come out of what I thought was the main door. Previously just below my office, I could see the hotel from my desk. I could not find that exit, the next morning I found one on the corner. But last night, tired from walking around, I took any exit, coming out through construction, where the Kmart store used to be.
There should be a 🆓 connection between 34th Street Ⓜ️ on 7th & 8th & connect directly to Moynihan & the main concourse
2:18 Why is Staten in that oval?
Amtrak still has customer service at upper level of LIRR mezz.
You totally misnumbered the platform numbers between 9-10 and 18-19, there's 11-12, 13-14, 15-16 and 17. And only platforms 5-16 are easily accessible from Moynihan Hall.
How far is Canal St
Can you do a video on the world trade center station in lower Manhattan and how it got there.
Great video, so glad you’re warning people about the construction- everybody listen to this advice here, take the subway. Last time I was at Penn I wasted a good 20 min just figuring out how to get in the building
moynahan doesn't have access to tracks 17-21
"part of my soul just withers and dies" that's a little dramatic, honestly. I'm an LIRR rider, but come on
Also... It's ON to Long Island.
I would rather they have MSG the way it is.
Are there still no benches in Moynihan Train Hall?
There are seats in the ticketed waiting room at Moynihan hall.
when we took the LIRR from queens last year, we got dropped in the old section of Penn, and had to walk to see Moynihan. Has that changed?
It depends on which part of the platform you exit from the train. The platform spans both Moynihan and the original Penn.
@@UrbanCaffeine Thank you for your heart sign. As a former New Yorker who grew up in NYC during the Mad Men era, Philadelphia is the sister city to New York City as they both have similar skylines and even the city Transit buses and subway trains resemble each other. And that was true even 70 years ago. Check it out on Google by typing in antique subway trains in NYC, then do antique subway trains in Philadelphia.
The stairs that get you up to Moynihan are at the very front of the train
@@BillyMartin4Life when we took the LIRR in, it dropped us off right under MSG
I dont think you move "The worlds most famous arena" MSG built in 1968 is an iconic venue, and for its time an architectural masterpiece. Keep the Garden where its at, and build a new train station elsewhere!!!!!!!! 👍🗽
I remember Penn Station from last year. I can't wait to see its new incarnation next year.
Next year 🤞
Noob !!! 😂😂😂 God, I hate Penn Station after all the years of commuting through it. I wonder what's in that old Amtrak space? Just FYI .. if you plan on taking the LIRR during rush hour, plan on seeing lines already forming at the places on the platform where the doors will be before the train is even announced. No one wants to stand for the minimum of an hour its going to take for a seat to open. I wouldn't move MSG - but I would improve the signage so it's easier to get to. There's this nice little escalator tucked in on the 7th avenue side that gets you right up to the Garden.
We visit the UES every summer and arrive in and depart from Penn Station. We have yet to have a positive experience departing it arriving. Getting to the Q subway is baffling, somehow. We’ve tried buses too. It is my goal to figure out a way into and out of that station that comes with minimal headaches.
Good luck!
msg isn't going anywhere. the owner is so stubborn
I think about how much money that the MTA and the Governor spent on fixing up the entire Penn Station Hub! After riding the LIRR once out of GCM this past January it occurred to me that it can be very confusing and difficult to get into the new train terminal! I always found out that Penn Station was always convenient for me from Brooklyn since I can take the D and transfer to West 4th and take the A C E or get off at 34th and walk to the LIRR main entrance at 7th Ave. I hate taking the D to Atlantic then the 4 or 5 to grand central and then finding the LIRR direction to GCM! Another thought in mind was about the metro north operating at NY Penn Station can cause hectic delays since they may need to add more track storage to some trains out of New York and New Jersey or parts of the city. Howeve the MNRR may not be a good idea since they have to dig underground from like through the east side of Manhattan to the west side causing a lot of construction on busy Aves such as 5th,Madison,Park and Lexington. It’s very costly and I may disagree on having that decision. Overall what they did to the new train hall is great but no places to sit on the concourse level of the terminal. Correct me if I’m wrong but the MTA may wanna file a big lawsuit against Penn Station due to riderships in the city and the money they had put into big renovations
Every time they touch Penn Station, they make it worse. The $billion Moynihan train hall makes no sense at all, since it doesn’t cover all the tracks. No wonder it’s named after a politician, because only a politician would come up with this idea!
The truth is, the hardest part of building Penn Station has already been done: Digging the tunnels under both the Hudson and East Rivers, digging the foundation for the station, laying the track, building the platforms.
All that’s missing is the building. That’s the easy part. Even the original granite and marble flooring, and most of the original brass stairs are still intact, hidden under modern floor covering and drop ceilings. Remove Madison Square Garden, and the one office tower facing 7th Avenue, and guess what?
You have 75% of the original Penn Station right there, staring at you. When you think about it, most of what made the original station impressive was this vast, open space, the soaring vaulted ceiling, seemingly supported by giant Doric columns. I say “seemingly” because all of this was fake, and easy to fake again.
The massive columns in the magnificent waiting room were actually steel H-beams cover in plaster, shaped and painted to look like real stone Romanesque columns. Trompe l'oeil. And that vaulted, coffered ceiling? Plaster as well. The only real real stone used was in the exterior columns, all of which to this day sit in a swampy field, across the Hudson River, in New Jersey.
With the assistance of a comport software, these pieces could easily be reassembled and put back in place. Then you put up the exterior wall, following the original McKim, Mead and White architectural plans and hey, you’ve got your glorious Penn Station back. Done.
I SUBBED TO YOU .. BUT ITS ONLY BC OF YOUR FILIPENO ACCENT
Great video, what the Dolans have done to NYC, and their terrible teams, is a crime. Not only do they have bad teams, let's see what happens with the Knicks this year, but they also block moving MSG as if it's some kind of revered building.
It is not, it should be moved, it has been moved before, it can happen again. This building is in the way to progress.
Yeah - and they're building a spur to put the new arena in Queens on the rail (I forgot if it was the subway or the LIRR, I think it's the old Aqueduct station on the LIRR). Where do you plan on moving MSG to that has as much access to public transit? You see how many people LOVE going to the Barclay Center. I'm serious.. the West Side yards would've been great but now they're gone.
@@JimAllen-Persona MSG was in several areas not far from where it was before.
We have two places that are important to NYC, one is Penn Station, one is MSG.
Attendance for Penn Station daily is 600,000; attendance for MSG annually is 3.6m visitors. So just simple math shows that in one week Penn Station is used more than an entire year at MSG.
The impact on the lives of NY'ers is beyond question for each.
There have been solid proposals to move MSG for years and the Dolans have not been interested, the infrastructure of Penn Station makes it that it is very hard and costly to expand Penn Station due to MSG's location blocking construction.
"I don't ask for much. Just cohesive signage."
Heheheh.🤠
As someone who spent 2 weeks in early June biking to the World Trade Center station to take the PATH, the WTC station is awful. First of all it's one weird building among many with the PATH not clearly signed. you have to cross the entire station with no direct route and a lot of winding stairs to get from the subway to the PATH. Thirdly there's no convenient route from the street to the PATH. It was designed to look pretty, not to be a functional station. Also, even though you can bring a bike on the PATH, you're gonna be stuck carrying that bike over several flights of stairs.
So where do you currently catch the Metro North trains? Is that currently Grand Central Station?
Yes, all east-of-Hudson Metro-North trains depart and arrive from Grand Central Terminal (GCT) in Manhattan, and always have. Train people (myself included) can be a bit snobbish about how it's not called Grand Central Station, a somewhat common misnomer, which can refer either to the subway stop beneath Grand Central proper, or perhaps to a post office. There's currently a project to allow one of the three lines, the New Haven Line, to terminate at Penn Station (called Penn Station Access), but its years away.
@@johnhawkinson great information and I am honored to get my question answered by a real train man. I love the trains I use to ride the Seaboard in my very very early days.
Will Penn station ever connect Pennsylvania to NYC again?
NY is connected to Pennsylvania via Amtrak at NYP.
Penn Station would flow much better if the train companies functioned as one (except for Amtrak). A one seat ride from LIRR to Hudson Line Metro North would really ease Queens Bronx travel.
I don't mind having an arena/office buildings/hotels on top of the station due to the convivence.
I would support moving Madison Square Garden to a new location. Maybe even New Jersey 😱Look. I don't believe that Penn Station will ever be restored to it's previous glory. Desecrating the original Penn Station is a mistake that can't be undone. However, the relocation of the MSG will open up a huge amount of land to build a modern and efficient transit hub that New Yorkers can be proud of. That's my 2 cents...
I believe it’s five because of MNRR 1:06 correct me if I’m wrong.
Metro North does not yet terminate at Penn Station.
At a train station a ticket office where you cant buy tickets at the platform or on the train is not a amenity, amenity is like complimentary products given/loaned to a person to use on their trip away from home, like shampoo in a hotel room etc.
It’s crazy that is under a sports thing…like huh?
Go back to 1960
Get rid of madison square guarden and rebuilt it
Penn Station should definitely be a stand alone building and have access to Metro North as well. We have to do better.
It’s going to take more than 3 years to relocate MSG.
Bottom line it’s a pig stye
I agree with you that Madison Square Garden needs to move out of its current location. There are proposals for it to move into another area in the same neighborhood. The Grand Penn Community Alliance has a plan for reenvisioning this location to complement the look of Moinihan Hall and add beautiful outdoor landscaping.
MSG should move out. As to where, that's up to them. For Penn Station, they should bring back the original design. Don't need to demolish 1 Penn, they could build around it. Look at Hearst Tower (57th St and 8th Ave). They built a modernized building on top of an old building. But my guess is that it's going to be expensive.
Madison Square Garden needs to go. Give Dolan the site where Gimbel's used to be and right the wrong that was done to Penn Station.