lol this is what you were talking about. loved the video. should be covering Tournaments here soon during the new year. hopefully we can get you some more data ;)
This is good stuff! Love this! A lot of the Table Top Gamers use datasets, they even have terms for it in certain games like WH40K "Mathhammer" it's good to see this kinda stuff in magic of course it will never be a be all end all of what colors you should play/what decks are by far the best or which cards are top tier in all of magic as commander is still a social game, for example: "if you can't politic your 1 Ring from making it onto the field you will draw 0 cards and not win the game even if it is the best card in magic"
This is an awesome video even as a casual player trying to learn about the format. Also thank you for pointing out the presence of Casuals at Tournaments... people like to pretend only spikes attend tournaments which is just silly.
I'd really be interested to see the data compared between pre-ban and post-ban. Without Dockside, most especially, the overall meta has seen a large shift into powerful draw engines and longer matches. I'm not sure how tedious it woukd be to sort through, but maybe with more data in your next update to this video later on, you could compare the two. I love your data science and statistics!
From 47 games of gemstone caverns being a pregame effect it has won 15 games and have a winrate of 31,91%. Personally I think that is kinda okey. Not bad. Also cool to se you here, I have 12 games from your channel in this data.
I have to add something else that is important about casual cedh Vs tournament play. The following I have seen content creators do, but the reasoning is only about why I am doing it. Many of us often explain our decks to the table if they ask us to. Maybe we play with new players or we want to teach someone so the whole playgroup improves, by trying to find the beat points of interaction together. I am 100% sure I have seen guest in playtowin videos asking for advice and the playtowin members get them through the line. And honestly that rocks. Sometimes you learn by being punished by your mistake and sometimes you need to be shown the right approach first a couple of times so you can recognise what went wrong when you did a mistake and how to fix it. This is not something that happens in tournament play. And this is why I personally don't really enjoy it. Because I made my decks with the explicit purpose of showing people the cool thing I made. In tournament play I wouldn't explain to anyone what are my important pieces or when they lost the game.
Really cool stuff, this takes a lot of work. Do you have a way to automate the data collection process? Because this is truly a LOT of effort. Good luck on the project, I'll be watching closely.
Great video and analysis. Although idk why you say silly youtubers have more knowledge on top tier commanders like magda over seasoned tournament players. A more logical reason would be that a lot of youtubers film multiple games with the same pod, then choose a game or two to upload from the play session. A game where a more unique cEDH commander wins or a game where it went back and forth with lots of interaction between players is a lot more interesting for viewers than watching magda win on turn 2 against a pod that all mulled to
@@cedhtv A lot of youtubers will mention in their videos that they picked out a game or two specifically for the video. You bring up Play to Win a lot in this video, they are an example of youtubers that pick specific games from a session to upload.
Can i suggest to narrow the research only to top 16 of tournaments to understand how the turn order and cards are better using data only from experienced players?
You can only use top 4 players to kinda do that and from that you can only learn what commander win vs other commanders. So we can't use EDH TOp 16 to try and understand what this video is trying to understand.
Any time you say something critical, you should say something nice too. The Voja deck you showed as an example of a not-recommended deck for cEDH, it is gorgeous and they obviously selected their cards with a lot of care. Elf decks are badass!
Any way I / we as a community can help with data? I track our cedh games since 3 months (a little over 100 games). Data i write down: Commander and their Seat order, Who wins, on which turn, which winrate does the deck have, which winrate does the deck have with seat 1-4., individual player win rate & amount of games, What i am not tracking are the cards "in play". Mby respond or get in touch with me and I can help you?
The plan is to keep doing this forever. Keep adding games and games untill we can start saying more stuff with certainty. When I reach 300 I will make an update. but also when I see things with strong results I will also showcase those. So don't worry. I will build upon this.
@ thank you. Ive been trying to keep track of my local games it definitely seems like turn 1 is winning more. But. I have a small sample size. And local meta also will effect this alot
Over time I do think player 1 will have a higher winrate once I get to 300 or 400 games. But I have heard that others have seen player 3 have the highest winrate. I think the more politics a meta has the more player 2 and 3 wins. And if you have less then player 1 wins more. That is what I belive.
Tyler has won a tournament!! Love the video !
Thank you. Yeah I remeber a podcast where you talked about his tournament.
You silly UA-cam cEDH players 🍻
On the opposite, when he was talking about Magda's winrate. I thought about Cam being the reason ^^'
Yay go tyler
What an incredible xmas gift! Thanks Mans!
Your welcome SELT!
This made for such an amazing viewing. Thank you so much for your analysis videos! You're doing so much for the community, and that's awesome!! ;)
Your welcome!
I love being part of Silly cEDH content creators :D I hope
Your opening in your lastest video did give you a spot. Nah just kidding I could se how it could have ... almost ... never mind :P
@@cedhtv Close Enough :D :D Could have been...maybe one day I will win :D also fun vid...keep up the good work
GOATed channel, happy New Year!
Thank you for the content bro. Happy New Year!
Happy new year bro!
lol this is what you were talking about. loved the video. should be covering Tournaments here soon during the new year. hopefully we can get you some more data ;)
I actully have 2 games from tournaments in this. I watched a live stream and took notes.
Outstanding work! This is so insightful
Great analysis, thanks Mons. You are good at this!
Big thank you. Really happy to read this.
This is good stuff! Love this! A lot of the Table Top Gamers use datasets, they even have terms for it in certain games like WH40K "Mathhammer" it's good to see this kinda stuff in magic of course it will never be a be all end all of what colors you should play/what decks are by far the best or which cards are top tier in all of magic as commander is still a social game, for example: "if you can't politic your 1 Ring from making it onto the field you will draw 0 cards and not win the game even if it is the best card in magic"
This is an awesome video even as a casual player trying to learn about the format. Also thank you for pointing out the presence of Casuals at Tournaments... people like to pretend only spikes attend tournaments which is just silly.
I am happy there is something for everyone. I do evaluate lower power level to from time to time.
Some of the most goofy and chill cedh games I have ever played were at the play to win gang’s tournaments
great video, work and effort. Well done
Thank you. Comments like this makes it feels like it is worth it!
Great work!
Thank you. I appriciat it, took some time.
Great work. Thanks for the insights.
Happy new year!
I'd really be interested to see the data compared between pre-ban and post-ban. Without Dockside, most especially, the overall meta has seen a large shift into powerful draw engines and longer matches. I'm not sure how tedious it woukd be to sort through, but maybe with more data in your next update to this video later on, you could compare the two.
I love your data science and statistics!
Over time I will have that answer but it will take a lot of time.
Really astounding work here
Incredible work man, keep it up!!
Great video and Data is amazing! Did you guys came up with anything regarding Gemstone Caverns? We see that card being a trap card. . .
From 47 games of gemstone caverns being a pregame effect it has won 15 games and have a winrate of 31,91%. Personally I think that is kinda okey. Not bad.
Also cool to se you here, I have 12 games from your channel in this data.
That’s pretty good, better stats than what we found (7%)! Thanks for making this and happy to hear we were able to contribute to the data! 😃😃
This is so amazing!
Great video Mons!
Hey Mans, thanks for the video, if you are looking for more data sets I recommend the channels noob plays cedh and also pongified.
I have games from pongified but not from noob plays. Thanks.
Great video, bruv, happy new year's eve❤
Thank you. Soon going to watch fire works :)
I have to add something else that is important about casual cedh Vs tournament play.
The following I have seen content creators do, but the reasoning is only about why I am doing it.
Many of us often explain our decks to the table if they ask us to. Maybe we play with new players or we want to teach someone so the whole playgroup improves, by trying to find the beat points of interaction together.
I am 100% sure I have seen guest in playtowin videos asking for advice and the playtowin members get them through the line.
And honestly that rocks. Sometimes you learn by being punished by your mistake and sometimes you need to be shown the right approach first a couple of times so you can recognise what went wrong when you did a mistake and how to fix it.
This is not something that happens in tournament play. And this is why I personally don't really enjoy it. Because I made my decks with the explicit purpose of showing people the cool thing I made. In tournament play I wouldn't explain to anyone what are my important pieces or when they lost the game.
Have a happy new year Mons! ❤❤❤
You too :) Happy new years.
AMAZING VIDEO!
Thank you!
Love these vids🎉
Thank you. Glad you like em!
Always interesting
This channel is Value
Thank you!
Really cool stuff, this takes a lot of work. Do you have a way to automate the data collection process? Because this is truly a LOT of effort. Good luck on the project, I'll be watching closely.
Nope. I mean I guess you could train an AI to do it but I can't do that. I don't se a different method then to watch these games manully.
Happy new year
Happy new year! :)
Great video!
Thank you!
Such good content
Thank you. I am happy you like it.
Great video and analysis. Although idk why you say silly youtubers have more knowledge on top tier commanders like magda over seasoned tournament players. A more logical reason would be that a lot of youtubers film multiple games with the same pod, then choose a game or two to upload from the play session. A game where a more unique cEDH commander wins or a game where it went back and forth with lots of interaction between players is a lot more interesting for viewers than watching magda win on turn 2 against a pod that all mulled to
I upload ALL games we record. And from talking to other youtubers they also upload ALL games they record.
@@cedhtv A lot of youtubers will mention in their videos that they picked out a game or two specifically for the video. You bring up Play to Win a lot in this video, they are an example of youtubers that pick specific games from a session to upload.
Yes but the rest goes to patreons.
Can i suggest to narrow the research only to top 16 of tournaments to understand how the turn order and cards are better using data only from experienced players?
You can only use top 4 players to kinda do that and from that you can only learn what commander win vs other commanders. So we can't use EDH TOp 16 to try and understand what this video is trying to understand.
Data seems skewed. Doesnt match up with my tournament experiences post bans.
What part of it? And like I said in this video. Tournament and youtube games are different.
Any time you say something critical, you should say something nice too. The Voja deck you showed as an example of a not-recommended deck for cEDH, it is gorgeous and they obviously selected their cards with a lot of care. Elf decks are badass!
gorgeous and care dont make you win. it's cEDH you cringelord.
Any way I / we as a community can help with data?
I track our cedh games since 3 months (a little over 100 games).
Data i write down:
Commander and their Seat order, Who wins, on which turn, which winrate does the deck have, which winrate does the deck have with seat 1-4., individual player win rate & amount of games,
What i am not tracking are the cards "in play".
Mby respond or get in touch with me and I can help you?
Write to me on discord: micromonkey is my name.
@cedhtv i sent a friend request (jumbieno ... I have Dockside as an icon)
Now I just want to see the percentage that Xyris has won games on videos vs tournaments. Lol
I have 4 games of Xyris in this data set so. Well hard to say anything really .
@cedhtv Yeah, sounds about right, not a lot of people play it
So your saying it’s completely safe to tap out on turn eleven in CEDH.
If I am your opponent YES!
could you expand the sample size ?? im curious if it makes turn 1 win more kinda shocked about the 2nd player winning more
What do you mean by: "could you expand the sample size ?? im curious if it makes turn 1 win more" ?
@@cedhtv more than 200 games. Im curious. If it changes the data at all
The plan is to keep doing this forever. Keep adding games and games untill we can start saying more stuff with certainty. When I reach 300 I will make an update. but also when I see things with strong results I will also showcase those. So don't worry. I will build upon this.
@ thank you. Ive been trying to keep track of my local games it definitely seems like turn 1 is winning more. But. I have a small sample size. And local meta also will effect this alot
Over time I do think player 1 will have a higher winrate once I get to 300 or 400 games. But I have heard that others have seen player 3 have the highest winrate. I think the more politics a meta has the more player 2 and 3 wins. And if you have less then player 1 wins more. That is what I belive.
Mans, would you share the dataset?
I will share it with Patreons on discord if they ask for it.
Last time I had a P test it cost me my job! But now marijuana is legal 😁
Hahahaha. I have heard storys about that.
@ happy new year Mons.
Happy new years you to.
@mentalmissplay bro add your lists lmao