Just picked up my 51st edition. I run a small ammo remanufacturing company and we just got some old reloading equipment from a garage clean out. There was an old lyman spartan press and the cardboard with metal corner bullet boxes. Thanks for all the vids over the years fortune cookie.
As my old welding teacher would say. Safety is a must for a result you can trust. I love the articles in the Lyman manuals. The 48 the edition was my first Lyman manual. I read that thing like it was my Bible. Now a days I have a whole shelf on my bookshelf for just reloading manuals. The Thomson Contender manuals are a favorite of mine. I like the caliber specific manuals too. I have a good 20" of them in the shelf.am I the only one that likes the antique reloading manuals? Steve again another great video. I wish I could go shooting with you just once. It's a bucket list thing. I bet you never thought you would be on someone's bucket list. I just don't shoot with anyone. I really don't trust people at the range. It goes back to the late 90's and early 2000's working as a range officer. I saw some of the most crazy things working that job. I really only trust people that I have trained for the most part. I have had some real scary people in my classes. No common sense was the main ingredient. I'm sorry I could talk to you for hours. Well you have a great day and always. Happy Safe Shooting 🇺🇸💪.😁
Thanks Steve. Those old manuals are still good to have. I needed load data a while back and couldn't find it. I saw on an old forum where someone was looking for data for the same bullet and round and someone suggested the Lyman 44th and 45th manuals. That did the trick. I downloaded a pdf of the 44th from 1967 and had my data. Makes me think of this Bible verse. And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure new things and old.”
What I have found after purchasing reloading manuals produced by Lee, Lyman and Ballistic Products Inc. is that each of these manuals devote a substantial amount of reloading data hawking their own products. With the Lee 2nd Edition being the least slanted towards their own products. The Lyman manual expounds upon their cast bullets using their brand of bullet molds and BPI expounds upon their wads exclusively in their load data, virtually ignoring all other competitor's brands. What is unique about the Lyman 50th Edition is that for each cartridge they give a history of when and why the cartridge was developed, which I find to be quite interesting. Thank you, Fortune Cookie45 LC for enlightening us about this new addition and I am sorry to hear of your ' waste of hard earned dollars ' -but - I must add - your contributions via your videos are a Godsend to us reloaders. Keep 'em comin' is all I can add to the above !
The 46th and 47th editions were and are my favorite manuals from Lyman; the overall spectrum of information was the best they ever included in any of their publications. That said, I will probably buy the new softcover to maintain continuity as I have every manual they have published since #45. Thanks FC45!
That was great Steve. I have the 49th edition and was wondering about getting this one. Love seeing the old stuff you show in the videos sometimes, a real history lesson. Thanks for saving me and others a little money to put towards other items in our hobby. See ya on the next one :-))
I love your enthusiasm. I played it at 2X speed it is still very understandable. I used to recover lead in large quantities and sell to bullet makers and your description of what can happen with molten lead and any kind of moisture is right on the money. Thank you.
For all that have not ever exspearanced this Steve is not kidding. I melted down some kind of fishing net weights I bought as scrap lead. Man did I have a surprise. So now on stuff like that I have a shield with walls and top cover to stop flying lead. Merry Christmas one and all.
Good, honest review, Cookie. Thanks! Your 49th looks brand-new while your 50th looks well-used. As I am not too interested in the flavor of the month cartridges, such as 224 Valkrie or 6.8 Western, I think I'll pass on the 51st. Heck, its been 2 decades since the 300 WSM debuted and I still haven't warmed up to it yet. Good reloadin' to ya!
I started with the 45th edition as my first manual. I have always pushed the Lyman reloading manual over the others. Lyman makes reloading equipment. They don't make bullets, powder or cases. A lot of the data has changed over the years using the same powders. However as I have been told the same numbers of powders have changed over the years. 20 years old data may give you an over load. Have several manuals and check each other.
I have several Lymans, the latest being the 50th. One of its features I like best is that it uses bullets from all manufacturers, rather than just one. Good data from one of our oldest reloading companies. Now I guess I'll hafta get the 51st!
If I were to categorize this subject, I would say that just having one loading manual is as if you are relying on one drop of water out of an absolute Ocean of information. I primarily use the Hornady manual, however, my backups are the Lyman and Sierra, load development and recommendations are two different worlds as you and I have learned over the years, what the manual says and how that recommendation performs may not be the best in your particular Rifle, Pistol or Shotgun. (Muzzleloading or the use of black powder) is a whole other set of demands and there are specific manuals when it comes to those, just like crafting homebrewed alloy bullets, there are better manuals that pertain to that subject as well. overall, I believe that building experience by following instructions and trying different powders and projectiles is the best teacher, also building and honing Marksmanship skills, weeding out Bad habits, and experiencing confidence while shooting is the mark of what this is all about. Peace -Dave
I have the Lyman 50th and the Hornady largely because I wanted data for XTP's straight from the manufacturer. That and Hornady bullets are just a better value over Sierra and I don't expect that to change. Would be nice if Berry's would make a manual and someone made a generic cast bullet load manual for a veriety of different bullets and calibers, but was updated for 2022. People think load data and knowledge doesn't change over the decades, but it does especially when new powders come out and other are discontinued. Still can't believe 800x is gone.
My first reloading manual was the Lyman 44th edition, I went with the Lyman because it not only covered handguns and rifles, it also cover shotshells and casting bullets. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since those early days of getting into reloading. I have since purchased over a dozen loading manuals from various companies down through the years. I still refer to the old Lyman at times, a recent purchase of a Marlin 62 Levermatic 256 Win mag required some serious reloading as there is no ammo or brass being produced at this time. The old Lyman 44 provided much of the information needed to make and load this round with both lead and jacketed bullets.
My experience with Lyman's soft bound manual (49th) has persuaded me to spend the extra money and get the hard bound in future because the pages started to fall out of the soft bound. The glue failed.
In the Lee manual, on page 37, it states: "Bullets seated deeper than normal will reduce case capacity and increase pressure. This is not too critical for large rifle cases, but extremely important for pistol loads. Good load data specifies bullet seating depth or over all cartridge length. Do not seat the bullet to deep. On page 96, of the Lee manual, under the section of “The Latest Information On Pressure”, it states: "2) the extreme expansion (XTP and Gold Dot) handgun bullets have a large and deep nose cavity that makes them longer than a regular bullet of the same weight. This requires deeper depth resulting in higher pressure. Seating depth is very critical for handgun ammunition because of the small cases and large bores. ... … The usable volume of … … … the 45 ACP is 1.14cc. Seating bullets 1/16” deeper … .. … reduces the volume … 0.16cc for the 45 ACP. That’s ... ... ... a whopping 14% ... . This large volume reduction has an equally large effect on pressure that is made more critical because the maximum pressure for the 45 ACP is 1/3 of [plus 60,000 pound range as mentioned below. Keep in mind the 45 Colt working pressure is a mere 14,000 psi.] … On page 157, of Lee's manual under "Minimal Overall Length", It states: This is critical on most handgun cases. A small reduction in overall length can cause dangerous pressures because of reduced capacity caused by seating the bullet too deep. See details on page 96." On page 133, of the "Complete Reloading Guide", under "Loads For Handgun Cartridges", in bold font right under the heading it states: Loads for handguns ... with less case capacity ... when loading ... ... ... mere tenths of a grain of powder can make the difference between a good load and one that is dangerous. Approach the loading of handgun ammunition with these facts in mind." Plus on pages 88 thru 89, of the Lee manual, under "Signs Of Excessive Pressure" is a list of seven pressure signs and then the manual states the following: "It must be emphasized that these signs will not manifest themselves in ... low pressure rounds. These are signs of pressure in the plus 60,000 pound range. If you are loading for a gun designed to operate at 15,000 pounds pressure, you will most likely never find a loose primer because the gun would have blown up and spread the primer and gun parts over a wide area." And on page 158, in the section of “How To Read The Load Data”, under “XTP” it states : “Use these loads for the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot, or Remington Golden Saber bullets. Now on page 270, of the Lee manual, under the “250 grain XTP” it gives load data with three different seating depths, because the data was taken from three different brand bullets, yet clumped together as if one. So if someone where to take the data developed for the shorter bullet and turn around and used it with the longer bullet they could very well raise pressures far above the 10% reduced starting charge weight. Especially if they use a case with smaller case capacity than that used in the development of the load data, as well as a hotter brand primer than that which was used to develop the data in the first place. Keep in mind that just changing the brand of primer can cause as much as a 2,000 psi rise in pressure alone, which can by itself swallow up the safety margin. Then throw in a case that has a reduced volume than the tested one and on top of all that seating the wrong bullet father in to the case, because it has a deeper hollow point and thicker cooper jacket, than what was used to developed the load data could easily displace the primer into one's own eye - so to speak. Or another way to put it would be as written in the book "Ammunition, Demystified", at the bottom of page 18, which says: "Use only the loading data published by the bullet manufacture! Substitution of loading data for equivalent weight bullets can get you into deep yogurt!" And I know for a fact that other manuals have stated not to switch brands of bullets even if they are of the same type. I would post them here if I had the time to wade through 30 different manuals to find where they spoke of such, but I am tired just having to have dug up the above and below. Head the warnings of reloading or not, but what ever you do try not to teach others to ignore them just because you might so choose. Again, the Richard Lee loading manual does not do pressure tests themselves, they only take test data from others that do and jumble it all together, of which they lose the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as bullet brand. These are all important elements, as one should never take data made for one specific brand and type bullet and turn and use it with a different brand or type bullet. This is due to Brinell hardness and bearing surfaces can be different, as well as the shape can be slightly different with longer or shorter lengths, all of which can cause extremely high pressure issues. One should only use data straight from a reputable data source [see paragraph below] that does their own pressure testing which give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, and most of all the brand of the type bullet used in developing the data. Each one of these elements that are changed is a compromise of which if all are compromised at the same time could very well add up to a recipe for disaster. First off, I am not implying that Lee plagiarized the data in their manual, just that they jumbled data from different sources together and lost key elements in the doing. And it has always been a given that one should use the starting loads and work their way up. This 10% reduction covers for smaller bore diameters, different lots of powder, different brand/lots of primers, and different brands of cartridge cases. These alone can take up that 10% relatively easy. Especially in pistol cartridges, as a little goes a long way in such small volume chambers. Lyman, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Swift, Berger, Norma, Lapua, VihtaVuori, Accurate, Western Powder, Hodgdon, or even Hornady reloading manuals are far better suited than Richard Lee's for gleaning load data from, as they all not only do their own testing but they all give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as the bullets brand and type for each load recipe. Again Richard Lee's manual throws out one of the carnal safety rules of "never use load data developed for one brand of bullet for another brand of the same style bullet". Keep in mind that it is always better to throw out Richard Lee's manual than any of the safety rules. But with all that said Richard Lee's reloading manual has a wealth of knowledge in the front half that makes the book well worth having. Just do not ignore the Cautions, Warnings, and Nevers there within.
I agree completely with your recommendations regarding casting safety, but I had issue understanding the condensation on your ladle aspect. I just wanted to clarify that the tool itself will cause condensation in the rapidly changing temperature. I could dry a ladle with a towel all afternoon, but if the temperature difference is considerable, it will create condensate when introduced to the heat. That's why we preheat our tools on the rim of the casting pot as it heats up, to drive the moisture out into the atmosphere. It's common practice to preheat tools in the smelting industry, and preheat joints in the welding industry for that same reason. I'm certain that was your intended message, but I wanted to weigh in so that others don't consider towel drying a cold tool.
I have a number of reloading manuals from the major reloading companies. The reason I buy the new manuals is for the new calibers that are coming out. Sierra manual 5 , 8th printing doesn't have 300 Blk. or 6.5 Grendel in it so I have to use other data. I haven't had any luck on asking for update page for those calibers. Good video I really like the videos that you discuses manuals dies, presses I guess you mite call them product reviews
Yup. I don't buy reloading manuals just for reading the articles at the beginning. I like to see new powder load data and new bullet loading data. I got the 49th and 50th load manuals and the load data was almost identical to the 46th manual. Except for a few new calibers that I will never buy. I agree with you. There's no sense in buying the 51st.
Thank you for your review. I wanted to point out that the 51st Edition DOES include some relevant and popular New Cartridges that the 50th Edition does not include: 224 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, 24 Nosler, 6mm ARC, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Wea. RPM, 6.8 Western, 300 PRC, and more. I have built a 6mm ARC, 6.5 PRC and a .300 PRC in the last 5 years, so this edition would certainly be the one for me.
Well Fotune Cookie, that hardback that doesn't really give you much new information could go on the book shelf while you use an older manual...then one day your grand son will discover a well preserved hard bound book, easy to read, in excellent condition; and full of information he may not be familiar with. It could happen.
I still have Lyman's 44th Edition (1967) to which I still refer, but I use the 50th Edition as my main source. And I don't use it that much, since I already have my favorite loads written down and see no need to change them. AND.. Where do you go to shoot where there is reloadable brass "lying around?" Where I go to shoot the ground is littered with non-reloadable steel and aluminum cases, but whenever a shooter leaves a station someone ALWAYS scrabbles in immediately to police up anything reloadable, and usually finds nothing.
I only have the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" and the ticket says I purchased on 02/10/01 for $22.99. The reloading data for their cast bullets in it are really different than published today. I remember that was a lot of money to me back then or I would not have kept the sales ticket! It advertised the 45 edition on the back cover and list it for only $4.95 so why did I pay so much for my book!
I have the 49th and 50th Editions, so it doesn’t sound like I’d need this one. You would think that over a period of 6 yrs or so they could at least use different bullet and powder combinations for the new manual rather than just republishing the same data from a previous manual.
The Lyman reloading is my favorite I have the 50th edition and had ordered the 51 edition from midway and I should of had it already but the mail service lost it so I am waiting on the replacement from midway
i still have my 43rd edition. i bought mine in '73. it is in rough shape, i drilled a series of holes holes in it and ran string through it, 'cause it was falling apart. it was my only manual 'till 1986, then i tried a hornady. still have it too. the lyman's are much betteri have the 49th and 50th as well,
Hi Steve, I remember watching a video where you dropped a bullet in the chamber, and then measured for C.O.L. I have been looking for 2 days and can't find it. Can you point me in the right direction? I just got an MGM barrel in .300 Savage for my Encore and I'm starting load development.
Patrick Plith - I have found that the Ramshot powders work really slick in my Lee and RCBS powder measures and my Hornady automatic powder dispenser... Best to ya, Steve
The 51st edition eliminated the T/C Contender handgun data for 10" & 14" barrels, not good. That data was useful for short barreled PC carbines, so I don't consider the 51st an improvement.
I have the 45th edition Lyman reloading manual, as well as all the way to the 51st. Very good resource. Also I have the Speer “atomic “ #7 manual from about the same time period as the Lyman 45
Always good for a free laugh when you see these young guys complaining about the recoil of .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and then they go and shoot/load 9mm +P and sometimes +P+. Lol I can only imagine what that is doing to their pistols with anymore than a few shots of it. They'll have a cracked frame or slide before long. They would be better off shooting standard pressure 9mm and going up to the .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum if they want a more powerful round. Velocity isn't the "cure all" of being a man-stopper. Punching large holes in things that cause more tissue damage, trauma and huge gaping wounds that produce profuse blood loss is the better route to take.
@@walterkurtz9719 Most modern 9mm pistols are rated for +P ammo, but shooting a steady diet of thousands and thousands of rounds through it during casual target practice is going to tear something up for sure. Funny thing is even those barrel burner (((((ATOMIC))))) 9mm loads won't swing steel or knock bowling pins completely off the table like those other more powerful calibers will.
@@walterkurtz9719 There is also another extreme to the spectrum that isn't good either which involves loading so light it barely functions properly. I have never subscribed to that group either as luck would have it. For starters it is firearm specific and won't work in others in the same caliber. Next it is not giving you good or realistic "practice" spoiling you with extremely light loads. You won't be able to competently handle or control your firearm with factory ammo anymore after you get a bad habit of shooting those. It seems people either go one way or the other. I have had many guys tell me "I wouldn't shoot his loads but I would yours" many times before. That is because I strive for "factory" feel and factory pressure levels whenever possible. My loads are safe and are very accurate. They function perfectly in any gun you are going to shoot them in without modification.
As a new reloader I have to say that I am disappointed with the Lyman book. There are so few choices of loads as compared to the Lee book. The Lee book has many more bullet grain weights and so many more powder choices per grain of bullet weight. I only do handgun calibers now, for that, I think I wasted money on the Lyman book.
For a company like Lyman to tell their customers to only use new brass goes against everything reloader a have done for a hundred years. How utterly stupid to put that in their manual. I guess they are afraid of a lawsuit
I will hold off buy the 51st edition. I find it almost impossible to buy primers ( for a reasonable cost) so unfortunately my reloading equipment has sat idle for the last few years. Hopefully that will change in the upcoming year, but with our current Political climate, it doesn’t look good.
In my country, Winchester & Remington brass is considered garbage. Not long lasting & quite thin... Herr its only Norma or Lapua since they have the best & most brass on the market in casings measured.
Most of my best loads came from Lyman and Hornady manuals. I also have Speer manuals and a RCBS bullet casting manual. I want to get a Lee manual to see if they have loads outlined for use with their bullet molds instead of having to figure it out yourself. Be careful with the Speer manuals as they like to go hot and heavy on the powder charges. I've tested some of their loads and even low on the chart loads have a BIG BOOM! Me personally I like the Lyman and Hornady "medium" or "moderate" loads 1/2 - 3/4 chart the best. You don't need ((((ATOMIC)))) barrel burner loads for target practice and punching paper. It wastes powder and wears out your firearm faster.
Just picked up my 51st edition. I run a small ammo remanufacturing company and we just got some old reloading equipment from a garage clean out. There was an old lyman spartan press and the cardboard with metal corner bullet boxes. Thanks for all the vids over the years fortune cookie.
Ammo made in ak? Whats the company called?
As my old welding teacher would say. Safety is a must for a result you can trust. I love the articles in the Lyman manuals. The 48 the edition was my first Lyman manual. I read that thing like it was my Bible. Now a days I have a whole shelf on my bookshelf for just reloading manuals. The Thomson Contender manuals are a favorite of mine. I like the caliber specific manuals too. I have a good 20" of them in the shelf.am I the only one that likes the antique reloading manuals? Steve again another great video. I wish I could go shooting with you just once. It's a bucket list thing. I bet you never thought you would be on someone's bucket list. I just don't shoot with anyone. I really don't trust people at the range. It goes back to the late 90's and early 2000's working as a range officer. I saw some of the most crazy things working that job. I really only trust people that I have trained for the most part. I have had some real scary people in my classes. No common sense was the main ingredient. I'm sorry I could talk to you for hours. Well you have a great day and always. Happy Safe Shooting 🇺🇸💪.😁
Saying that you read it like
it was your Bible says good
things about you.
I am using a 43 edition now dated 1968 excellent info, I also read like Bible.
Thanks Steve. Those old manuals are still good to have. I needed load data a while back and couldn't find it. I saw on an old forum where someone was looking for data for the same bullet and round and someone suggested the Lyman 44th and 45th manuals. That did the trick. I downloaded a pdf of the 44th from 1967 and had my data. Makes me think of this Bible verse.
And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure new things and old.”
What I have found after purchasing reloading manuals produced by Lee, Lyman and Ballistic Products Inc. is that each of these manuals devote a substantial amount of reloading data hawking their own products. With the Lee 2nd Edition being the least slanted towards their own products.
The Lyman manual expounds upon their cast bullets using their brand of bullet molds and BPI expounds upon their wads exclusively in their load data, virtually ignoring all other competitor's brands.
What is unique about the Lyman 50th Edition is that for each cartridge they give a history of when and why the cartridge was developed, which I find to be quite interesting.
Thank you, Fortune Cookie45 LC for enlightening us about this new addition and I am sorry to hear of your ' waste of hard earned dollars ' -but - I must add - your contributions via your videos are a Godsend to us reloaders.
Keep 'em comin' is all I can add to the above !
The 46th and 47th editions were and are my favorite manuals from Lyman; the overall spectrum of information was the best they ever included in any of their publications. That said, I will probably buy the new softcover to maintain continuity as I have every manual they have published since #45. Thanks FC45!
That was great Steve. I have the 49th edition and was wondering about getting this one. Love seeing
the old stuff you show in the videos sometimes, a real history lesson. Thanks for saving me and others
a little money to put towards other items in our hobby. See ya on the next one :-))
I love your enthusiasm. I played it at 2X speed it is still very understandable. I used to recover lead in large quantities and sell to bullet makers and your description of what can happen with molten lead and any kind of moisture is right on the money. Thank you.
For all that have not ever exspearanced this Steve is not kidding. I melted down some kind of fishing net weights I bought as scrap lead. Man did I have a surprise. So now on stuff like that I have a shield with walls and top cover to stop flying lead. Merry Christmas one and all.
Good, honest review, Cookie. Thanks! Your 49th looks brand-new while your 50th looks well-used. As I am not too interested in the flavor of the month cartridges, such as 224 Valkrie or 6.8 Western, I think I'll pass on the 51st. Heck, its been 2 decades since the 300 WSM debuted and I still haven't warmed up to it yet. Good reloadin' to ya!
I wish you were my bonus grandpa
Me too! He is a fine gentleman
I started with the 45th edition as my first manual. I have always pushed the Lyman reloading manual over the others. Lyman makes reloading equipment. They don't make bullets, powder or cases. A lot of the data has changed over the years using the same powders. However as I have been told the same numbers of powders have changed over the years. 20 years old data may give you an over load. Have several manuals and check each other.
Does your 45th edition Lyman Manual list loads for .33 Winchester (33 WCF)? I have the latest Lyman Cast Handbook, and it doesn’t.
Great advice, and thank you for the historical perspective.
I have several Lymans, the latest being the 50th. One of its features I like best is that it uses bullets from all manufacturers, rather than just one. Good data from one of our oldest reloading companies. Now I guess I'll hafta get the 51st!
If I were to categorize this subject, I would say that just having one loading manual is as if you are relying on one drop of water out of an absolute Ocean of information. I primarily use the Hornady manual, however, my backups are the Lyman and Sierra, load development and recommendations are two different worlds as you and I have learned over the years, what the manual says and how that recommendation performs may not be the best in your particular Rifle, Pistol or Shotgun. (Muzzleloading or the use of black powder) is a whole other set of demands and there are specific manuals when it comes to those, just like crafting homebrewed alloy bullets, there are better manuals that pertain to that subject as well. overall, I believe that building experience by following instructions and trying different powders and projectiles is the best teacher, also building and honing Marksmanship skills, weeding out Bad habits, and experiencing confidence while shooting is the mark of what this is all about. Peace -Dave
I have the Lyman 50th and the Hornady largely because I wanted data for XTP's straight from the manufacturer. That and Hornady bullets are just a better value over Sierra and I don't expect that to change.
Would be nice if Berry's would make a manual and someone made a generic cast bullet load manual for a veriety of different bullets and calibers, but was updated for 2022.
People think load data and knowledge doesn't change over the decades, but it does especially when new powders come out and other are discontinued.
Still can't believe 800x is gone.
@@DickTickles 800x😫. I’ve got summm left. But it’s not nearly as much as I’d want!
My first reloading manual was the Lyman 44th edition, I went with the Lyman because it not only covered handguns and rifles, it also cover shotshells and casting bullets. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since those early days of getting into reloading. I have since purchased over a dozen loading manuals from various companies down through the years. I still refer to the old Lyman at times, a recent purchase of a Marlin 62 Levermatic 256 Win mag required some serious reloading as there is no ammo or brass being produced at this time. The old Lyman 44 provided much of the information needed to make and load this round with both lead and jacketed bullets.
I always learn something new at the Hot Lead Zone. Thanks for the videos.
I have a #49 in soft cover.
I dig into it quite often when looking for another load recipe.
It has served me well...
I bought the 47th new and still use it from time to time...Good manual...
My experience with Lyman's soft bound manual (49th) has persuaded me to spend the extra money and get the hard bound in future because the pages started to fall out of the soft bound. The glue failed.
All reloading manuals should be in "LARGE PRINT"
Thank you for doing the review, I don't own any Lyman manual. Maybe I'll wait for a sale to pick one up.
Nice I just got the third edition Lyman Handgun and revolver
A 6th edition shotshell manual sure would be nice!, every 100 years whether you need or not?
Thank you. I have the 49th and 50th editions. Also 1975 manual. I was thinking of the 51st. edition but will hold off. I don't load any new calibers.
In the Lee manual, on page 37, it states:
"Bullets seated deeper than normal will reduce case capacity and increase pressure. This is not too critical for large rifle cases, but extremely important for pistol loads. Good load data specifies bullet seating depth or over all cartridge length. Do not seat the bullet to deep.
On page 96, of the Lee manual, under the section of “The Latest Information On Pressure”, it states:
"2) the extreme expansion (XTP and Gold Dot) handgun bullets have a large and deep nose cavity that makes them longer than a regular bullet of the same weight. This requires deeper depth resulting in higher pressure. Seating depth is very critical for handgun ammunition because of the small cases and large bores. ... … The usable volume of … … … the 45 ACP is 1.14cc. Seating bullets 1/16” deeper … .. … reduces the volume … 0.16cc for the 45 ACP. That’s ... ... ... a whopping 14% ... . This large volume reduction has an equally large effect on pressure that is made more critical because the maximum pressure for the 45 ACP is 1/3 of [plus 60,000 pound range as mentioned below. Keep in mind the 45 Colt working pressure is a mere 14,000 psi.] …
On page 157, of Lee's manual under "Minimal Overall Length", It states:
This is critical on most handgun cases. A small reduction in overall length can cause dangerous pressures because of reduced capacity caused by seating the bullet too deep. See details on page 96."
On page 133, of the "Complete Reloading Guide", under "Loads For Handgun Cartridges", in bold font right under the heading it states:
Loads for handguns ... with less case capacity ... when loading ... ... ... mere tenths of a grain of powder can make the difference between a good load and one that is dangerous. Approach the loading of handgun ammunition with these facts in mind."
Plus on pages 88 thru 89, of the Lee manual, under "Signs Of Excessive Pressure" is a list of seven pressure signs and then the manual states the following:
"It must be emphasized that these signs will not manifest themselves in ... low pressure rounds. These are signs of pressure in the plus 60,000 pound range. If you are loading for a gun designed to operate at 15,000 pounds pressure, you will most likely never find a loose primer because the gun would have blown up and spread the primer and gun parts over a wide area."
And on page 158, in the section of “How To Read The Load Data”, under “XTP” it states :
“Use these loads for the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot, or Remington Golden Saber bullets.
Now on page 270, of the Lee manual, under the “250 grain XTP” it gives load data with three different seating depths, because the data was taken from three different brand bullets, yet clumped together as if one. So if someone where to take the data developed for the shorter bullet and turn around and used it with the longer bullet they could very well raise pressures far above the 10% reduced starting charge weight. Especially if they use a case with smaller case capacity than that used in the development of the load data, as well as a hotter brand primer than that which was used to develop the data in the first place. Keep in mind that just changing the brand of primer can cause as much as a 2,000 psi rise in pressure alone, which can by itself swallow up the safety margin. Then throw in a case that has a reduced volume than the tested one and on top of all that seating the wrong bullet father in to the case, because it has a deeper hollow point and thicker cooper jacket, than what was used to developed the load data could easily displace the primer into one's own eye - so to speak.
Or another way to put it would be as written in the book "Ammunition, Demystified", at the bottom of page 18, which says:
"Use only the loading data published by the bullet manufacture! Substitution of loading data for equivalent weight bullets can get you into deep yogurt!"
And I know for a fact that other manuals have stated not to switch brands of bullets even if they are of the same type. I would post them here if I had the time to wade through 30 different manuals to find where they spoke of such, but I am tired just having to have dug up the above and below.
Head the warnings of reloading or not, but what ever you do try not to teach others to ignore them just because you might so choose.
Again, the Richard Lee loading manual does not do pressure tests themselves, they only take test data from others that do and jumble it all together, of which they lose the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as bullet brand. These are all important elements, as one should never take data made for one specific brand and type bullet and turn and use it with a different brand or type bullet. This is due to Brinell hardness and bearing surfaces can be different, as well as the shape can be slightly different with longer or shorter lengths, all of which can cause extremely high pressure issues. One should only use data straight from a reputable data source [see paragraph below] that does their own pressure testing which give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, and most of all the brand of the type bullet used in developing the data. Each one of these elements that are changed is a compromise of which if all are compromised at the same time could very well add up to a recipe for disaster.
First off, I am not implying that Lee plagiarized the data in their manual, just that they jumbled data from different sources together and lost key elements in the doing. And it has always been a given that one should use the starting loads and work their way up. This 10% reduction covers for smaller bore diameters, different lots of powder, different brand/lots of primers, and different brands of cartridge cases. These alone can take up that 10% relatively easy. Especially in pistol cartridges, as a little goes a long way in such small volume chambers.
Lyman, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Swift, Berger, Norma, Lapua, VihtaVuori, Accurate, Western Powder, Hodgdon, or even Hornady reloading manuals are far better suited than Richard Lee's for gleaning load data from, as they all not only do their own testing but they all give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as the bullets brand and type for each load recipe.
Again Richard Lee's manual throws out one of the carnal safety rules of "never use load data developed for one brand of bullet for another brand of the same style bullet". Keep in mind that it is always better to throw out Richard Lee's manual than any of the safety rules. But with all that said Richard Lee's reloading manual has a wealth of knowledge in the front half that makes the book well worth having. Just do not ignore the Cautions, Warnings, and Nevers there within.
I agree completely with your recommendations regarding casting safety, but I had issue understanding the condensation on your ladle aspect. I just wanted to clarify that the tool itself will cause condensation in the rapidly changing temperature. I could dry a ladle with a towel all afternoon, but if the temperature difference is considerable, it will create condensate when introduced to the heat. That's why we preheat our tools on the rim of the casting pot as it heats up, to drive the moisture out into the atmosphere. It's common practice to preheat tools in the smelting industry, and preheat joints in the welding industry for that same reason. I'm certain that was your intended message, but I wanted to weigh in so that others don't consider towel drying a cold tool.
I have a number of reloading manuals from the major reloading companies. The reason I buy the new manuals is for the new calibers that are coming out. Sierra manual 5 , 8th printing doesn't have 300 Blk. or 6.5 Grendel in it so I have to use other data. I haven't had any luck on asking for update page for those calibers. Good video I really like the videos that you discuses manuals dies, presses I guess you mite call them product reviews
Yup. I don't buy reloading manuals just for reading the articles at the beginning. I like to see new powder load data and new bullet loading data.
I got the 49th and 50th load manuals and the load data was almost identical to the 46th manual. Except for a few new calibers that I will never buy.
I agree with you. There's no sense in buying the 51st.
Thanks for the information. I found a 50th for $10 a few days after the 51st came out. I think I'll stick with it.
The ideal format for the new editions would be a ring binder .
Thank you for your review. I wanted to point out that the 51st Edition DOES include some relevant and popular New Cartridges that the 50th Edition does not include: 224 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, 24 Nosler, 6mm ARC, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Wea. RPM, 6.8 Western, 300 PRC, and more. I have built a 6mm ARC, 6.5 PRC and a .300 PRC in the last 5 years, so this edition would certainly be the one for me.
Well Fotune Cookie, that hardback that doesn't really give you much new information could go on the book shelf while you use an older manual...then one day your grand son will discover a well preserved hard bound book, easy to read, in excellent condition; and full of information he may not be familiar with. It could happen.
I still have Lyman's 44th Edition (1967) to which I still refer, but I use the 50th Edition as my main source. And I don't use it that much, since I already have my favorite loads written down and see no need to change them.
AND.. Where do you go to shoot where there is reloadable brass "lying around?" Where I go to shoot the ground is littered with non-reloadable steel and aluminum cases, but whenever a shooter leaves a station someone ALWAYS scrabbles in immediately to police up anything reloadable, and usually finds nothing.
Outstanding good to see you Sir.
I only have the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" and the ticket says I purchased on 02/10/01 for $22.99. The reloading data for their cast bullets in it are really different than published today.
I remember that was a lot of money to me back then or I would not have kept the sales ticket!
It advertised the 45 edition on the back cover and list it for only $4.95 so why did I pay so much for my book!
Galen - I have no idea why your copy costs what it did. The 45th Cast Bullet Handbook should have cost much less than $22.99. Best to ya, Steve
Considering I haven't BOUGHT a Lyman manual since the #45 edition, I might pick one up... along with Lee Precision's book.
I have the 49th and 50th Editions, so it doesn’t sound like I’d need this one. You would think that over a period of 6 yrs or so they could at least use different bullet and powder combinations for the new manual rather than just republishing the same data from a previous manual.
The Lyman reloading is my favorite I have the 50th edition and had ordered the 51 edition from midway and I should of had it already but the mail service lost it so I am waiting on the replacement from midway
i still have my 43rd edition. i bought mine in '73. it is in rough shape, i drilled a series of holes holes in it and ran string through it, 'cause it was falling apart. it was my only manual 'till 1986, then i tried a hornady. still have it too. the lyman's are much betteri have the 49th and 50th as well,
I have that same lyman spiral manual for the 70's. I guess I need to get a new one. Lol
Be nice if they would include cast Lee bullet mold data.
👍👍thanks for the video 👍
I have that same manual it was the first one that I purchased.
It is the fear that someone would sue them is why the recommend new brass for reloading!
Hi Steve, I remember watching a video where you dropped a bullet in the chamber, and then measured for C.O.L.
I have been looking for 2 days and can't find it. Can you point me in the right direction? I just got an MGM barrel in .300 Savage for my Encore and I'm starting load development.
That 45th manual was 4.95…. Price has changed too
I got a big table, have no problems putting my books on it
I have the 49th edition, bought the 51st little disappointed not much new powder’s or bullets
Thank you for the great information.also what do you use to meter fine gun powder like true blue.keep up the great work .✌️🎄
Patrick Plith - I have found that the Ramshot powders work really slick in my Lee and RCBS powder measures and my Hornady automatic powder dispenser... Best to ya, Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC thank you for that information.have a great Christmas and a great new year ✌️
The 51st edition eliminated the T/C Contender handgun data for 10" & 14" barrels, not good. That data was useful for short barreled PC carbines, so I don't consider the 51st an improvement.
I have the 45th edition Lyman reloading manual, as well as all the way to the 51st. Very good resource. Also I have the Speer “atomic “ #7 manual from about the same time period as the Lyman 45
Other than .224 Valkerie what are the new cartridges?
I believe the Lyman website lists the calibers.
Many Thanks
“Glock’ed” .40s&w brass from the range can be just fine after using a Lee Bulge Buster.
Always good for a free laugh when you see these young guys complaining about the recoil of .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and then they go and shoot/load 9mm +P and sometimes +P+. Lol I can only imagine what that is doing to their pistols with anymore than a few shots of it. They'll have a cracked frame or slide before long. They would be better off shooting standard pressure 9mm and going up to the .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum if they want a more powerful round. Velocity isn't the "cure all" of being a man-stopper. Punching large holes in things that cause more tissue damage, trauma and huge gaping wounds that produce profuse blood loss is the better route to take.
@@walterkurtz9719
Most modern 9mm pistols are rated for +P ammo, but shooting a steady diet of thousands and thousands of rounds through it during casual target practice is going to tear something up for sure. Funny thing is even those barrel burner (((((ATOMIC))))) 9mm loads won't swing steel or knock bowling pins completely off the table like those other more powerful calibers will.
@@walterkurtz9719
There is also another extreme to the spectrum that isn't good either which involves loading so light it barely functions properly. I have never subscribed to that group either as luck would have it. For starters it is firearm specific and won't work in others in the same caliber. Next it is not giving you good or realistic "practice" spoiling you with extremely light loads. You won't be able to competently handle or control your firearm with factory ammo anymore after you get a bad habit of shooting those. It seems people either go one way or the other. I have had many guys tell me "I wouldn't shoot his loads but I would yours" many times before. That is because I strive for "factory" feel and factory pressure levels whenever possible. My loads are safe and are very accurate. They function perfectly in any gun you are going to shoot them in without modification.
As a new reloader I have to say that I am disappointed with the Lyman book. There are so few choices of loads as compared to the Lee book. The Lee book has many more bullet grain weights and so many more powder choices per grain of bullet weight. I only do handgun calibers now, for that, I think I wasted money on the Lyman book.
Just too many old wives' tales circulating in the firearms and ammunition communities. Totally agree.
I was disappointed in the 50th, I was hopping to see cast loads for 50 beowulf. Otherwise it is as good as ever
Hiya, FC! 🤛🏻🔫🇺🇸
For a company like Lyman to tell their customers to only use new brass goes against everything reloader a have done for a hundred years. How utterly stupid to put that in their manual. I guess they are afraid of a lawsuit
Ummmmm NO Fortune cookie/Steve a big enough drop of water or sweat dripping into your pot will indeed cause a mini lead explosion.
I will hold off buy the 51st edition. I find it almost impossible to buy primers ( for a reasonable cost) so unfortunately my reloading equipment has sat idle for the last few years. Hopefully that will change in the upcoming year, but with our current Political climate, it doesn’t look good.
🤠👍
In my country, Winchester & Remington brass is considered garbage. Not long lasting & quite thin...
Herr its only Norma or Lapua since they have the best & most brass on the market in casings measured.
👍
Printed in China
No room for mistakes there
Most of my best loads came from Lyman and Hornady manuals. I also have Speer manuals and a RCBS bullet casting manual. I want to get a Lee manual to see if they have loads outlined for use with their bullet molds instead of having to figure it out yourself. Be careful with the Speer manuals as they like to go hot and heavy on the powder charges. I've tested some of their loads and even low on the chart loads have a BIG BOOM! Me personally I like the Lyman and Hornady "medium" or "moderate" loads 1/2 - 3/4 chart the best. You don't need ((((ATOMIC)))) barrel burner loads for target practice and punching paper. It wastes powder and wears out your firearm faster.
Lyman released their first manual in 1925… so not sure where you got 120 years?