Also worth noting: Do NOT lie to the police. Refusing to answer a question is fine, and protected by the Charter in almost every circumstance (call a lawyer). But lying to the police is an offence (obstructing a peace officer), and will ruin your day.
Lying about anything to police is a bad idea. They can often hit you with criminal charges for it--regardless about whether it's about a gun--and even if not, lying to the officer will make your situation worse.
I had a situation when I was 18 where I was walking home from the range with 1) a rifle in a cloth back with the bolt removed and 2) a registered revolver, with a trigger lock in a locked case with the paperwork and the case inside a gym bag. The police drove by, pulled a U-turn and nearly hit me when pulling to the shoulder. She demanded what I was doing with a "shotgun" on HER streets. I explained what I had and why and that it was perfectly legal. She demanded my FAC (current at the time). She asked what was in the bag. When I explained, she demanded to see it, I refused as I was outside both the range and my residence. "Put it on the back seat and open it up." I kept refusing for the reasons stated above and that I could lose my permit and firearm. I offered to open it for her IF she transported me to either the range or home. She jumped on the radio with her supervisor and after a brief exchange, she broke contact and sent me on my way with a warning that she better not see me on HER streets with a SHOTGUN again! Sorry, lady, I was within the law. I may have still been a teenager and she would have been pushing 40 or older, but I knew my firearms law better than she did and used that to my advantage in the situation.
Gotta live cops who tell you to break the law to prove you aren't breaking the law. She had zero clue, she is probably afraid of her own service pistol.
My RPAL course was taught by a retired Police officer. He was adamant that we should never tell an officer that we are transporting firearms (in the context you describe). His reasoning was that most officers have very little or cursory at best, knowledge of the firearms regulations pertaining to their transport.
I went through a DUI check stop with my shotgun in the backseat (unloaded with the action open). The cops freaked out and grabbed it it without asking me. The cop went on and on about how it was illegal to have a firearm in my vehicle in town and that I needed to have it locked etc. I just said that as long as it was unloaded and I was present in the vehicle I didn't need to lock it. He then said "good thing we are doing a DUI checkpoint and don't have time to charge you with this. " The thing is that if I was actually breaking the law he would have charged me because firearm charges are considered to be very serious.
DUI inspections are the sole purpose for DUI's only ....if they do other than that you should file a complaint ! a police officer said that even if you had no seatbelt they can not ticket you for a seatbelt infraction ...this is right out of the mouth of a recently retired officer !
Lol way to potentially take one for the team, we need all the precedent we can get. Jokes aside though that could've been very expensive, at least throw a blanket on it jesus 🤣
@@DLN-ix6vf don’t be pretentious. The transportation law for non restricted is clear. As long as you’re in the vehicle the only thing you have to do is to have the gun unloaded. Nothing more nothing else.
@@DLN-ix6vf well I’m following the law by the dot on this mindset. If you wanna go ahead and add more steps for transporting your firearms you can do that, just don’t go out calling people names because of your own decisions.
@@douganderson7002 it is part of the Canadian restricted fire arms safety course to handle load and unload all types of actions including revolvers and semi automatics, as is identifying inert and live ammunition
andrew harley true, and it’s worth noting they receive the equivalent of the CFSC AND CRFSC at depot or whatever police academy although they are not granted a license. It’s just a part of the firearms familiarization and safety training component.
@@AHarley18 Unfortunately, law enforcement officers don't require either the safety course or a PAL/RPAL to carry a service firearm. How ironic that they should be in charge of enforcing gun safety regulations.
Why do we have to cower in front of government employees who get paid with our taxes. As long as we aren’t breaking laws they shouldn’t be able to even talk to us
I have some very close friends who are police, but even they tell me police are not my friends. Having friends who aren't your friends is all very confusing 😁
I look at it that they aren't out to get me, they are out to find breaches of the law, no matter who it is. It isn't personal, it is their job. Off the clock, many cops overlook minor infractions, like a bottle of 'shine at a party, or a Cuban cigar, but, not a major issue like coke or an illegal firearm. They are people, and just like all of us, they have a job to do; unfortunately, that job is catching us doing something wrong and they have to assume everyone is lying, since most do, which is why they try to trip you up with conversation.
@@lelandlewis7207 You know, the difference is good cops look to make the community better, and often a verbal warning or a flash of the red and blues ("if I was a dick you'd be getting a ticket right now"... I got red and blued on a section of highway where I thought it was safe to speed and I haven't sped there since, no ticket required!) is enough to accomplish the goal, but some (and this certainly isn't the majority, just enough to blemish the reputation) get off on catching you with your pants down. I have no problem with tickets or charges being given if that's what it takes to change the culture of a community, but usually, relationship building is far more effective.
@Willy yes, they were illegal under the original sanctions during the Cold War under the "Trading With the Enemy Act". President Obama eased restrictions working toward renewed relations, but Trump tightened restrictions in 2020, including Cuban alcohol and tobacco for personal use.
"Anything that is coming out of your mouth is worsening your situation." and "If your mouth is moving, your situation is getting worse." Words to remember and live by. Thank you for that, Mr. Runkle.
Lol that applies to my ex wife too. And that was when and before we were married, she'd take what i said and twist as a negative in future conversations, situations which she'd make an argument about nothing.🥴🤪
@@seap9570 It wasn't. Police asked that we not do it because it scares people...Also, somehow the onus got shifted onto victims, that when we get robbed it's because we "advertised them" in the back of our vehicle, or "didn't lock our doors": it's a little like the "showed too much skin so she got raped" argument, instead of blame being placed squarely at the feet of the poor disenfranchised criminal who didn't get enough of mommy's love. Sorry for the rant, but yes so long as it's a non-restricted it's completely legal, but you can count on getting asked repeatedly not to do it.
@@wilfdarr So true, in theory if your shotgun or riffle is unloaded, you would even be legal to put it over your shoulder and walk the street... Good luck trying to exercise this legal right... 😀😀😀
Wilfred Darr from the “Act”... “(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if (a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and (b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.”
@@mikpopiel473 That's the beauty of nonsense in our laws: "transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle" If one uses the logic, those words contradict themselves... But hey, this is not that bad, there are even worse definitions in our laws!
I'd love for you to go over the legal implications of truck guns. Transportation vs storage of non restricted in vehicles. It's always been somthing of a grey area to my understanding.
As an American living in a relatively gun-friendly state Oklahoma, what you describe as the law is very chilling. We may be facing similar laws nationwide sooner than many people believe. I have watched several of your firearms law videos, and it appears that Canadian gun laws are far more draconian than those of gun-hating states like New York, New Jersey or California
The government here has conned Canadians into believing owning a firearm is a privledge not a right. When did this happen there were virtually no gun laws until the late 1800s early 1900s. All these laws are constructs of government many passed without the approval of the citizens. Trudeau has been passing laws, bans and penalties even jail time all passed on zero evidence, zero proof it was required and circumvented our democratic process by using a OIC. Our present liberal government is one of the most corrupt governments we have ever seen, so unless the officer has a document , search warrent, the answer is NO. If he chooses to ignore our rights and forcibly takes our guns then time to sue.
@@CommieCrusher87 yup and the liberal politician will have everyone believe it’s legal gun owners fault that crime exists. Trudeau banned handguns and wants to bang on doors collecting them. Liberals would give up every freedom to be protected themselves from thinking
THANK YOU,finally some great canadian advice.As an outdoorsman we have firearms and knives, there is so many grey areas in our laws regarding above mentioned it is very confusing. I really want to thank you for having this channel it is so important that we can get this information in a well presented form that we can understand!!!!
Thanks for the solid information. I definitely used to be the “I’m not doing anything wrong, so I’ll comply with anything.” If I happened to be in a situation like that. But I’ve changed my perspective now.
In my firearms training we were told to tell the cop he knows it’s illegal to open that case at the side of the road so if he wants to see what’s inside he has to follow you back to the gun range to open the case .....
@Me. Me They're assuming it's a restricted gun in the case, in which case it's illegal. If it's a non-restricted, then you are correct that it wouldn't be illegal to open the case. Thank you for pointing this discrepancy out because I was thinking about using this answer, but since I only have a PAL (not R-PAL), telling the officer that it's illegal to open the case would insinuate that I have restricted weapons with only a PAL, which would make for an...shall we say "interesting" conversation...
@@wilfdarr Thats what I hear, do not open a legal case. The other thing the range officer said was if the police wants to see it, refuse on those grounds but offer to call the CFO's office to get their opinion on the matter.
@@wilfdarr I have RPAL and my restricted is unloaded with a trigger lock in a locked case when I transport. Also when home it goes In the safe just the same .... I also carry my non restricted in a case the same as my restricted. Of a cop looks at that he’s going to have to bust through the case or cut the locks off which shows I haven’t given consent. It’s safer anyway to treat your non restricted as restricted when your transport, in my opinion.
@@SwordofRagnar I suppose the standard answer of "I'm sorry but before I consent to anything, I'll have to consult with my LAWYER" would not be inappropriate here.
The one that gets me is "do you have any weapons on you" when its hunting season. No officer, just my hunting tools. Makes me cringe at the whole system.
Ah ha moment for me. If I have an illegal weapon on me, wouldn’t o have the right to Fifth Amendment rights to not answer. It certainly would be self incrimination. Hmmm
I have on several occasions been asked this question. My response has always been; “why do you ask?”. And before they have a chance to answer, I take the conversation in a different direction. I have yet had a LEO follow through and look through my vehicle or check my firearms. I did not lie.
UA-cam is loaded with advance about firearms and what is and isn't legal. Your videos are some of the very few that explain why you should do or say different things. I'm living in the constitutional carry state of Arizona and I do carry most of the time when away from home or driving. We don't have to inform officers we have firearms but I myself and others I know will inform officers we have weapons so it doesn't appear we are reaching for them when removing our license and I have never had an issue with it. I do appreciate your information about letting them break into the gun case and explaining the reason for it. I know gun control is different in Canada but many of your videos explain how small interpretations of laws can make or break you regardless of what side of the border your on.
@@mmpiforall5913 I know in the 90s oregon knew but I haven't had a need for ccw in Arizona. We can carry with out almost everywhere. But areas such as indian reservation laws are all over the place so as a rule I avoid reservation if I'm carrying.
I am really appreciating your videos on firearms related law in Canada. It is definitely helping me better understand our legal system, and how to navigate it even MORE carefully as a law abiding gun owner. God knows it's hard enough as it is.
It occurs to me, that in the case of a restricted firearm, opening the case while in between the range and home, would immediately be a felony. So even if the cop was just curious, the moment you open the case, it's not longer being transported legally.
If they ever want to see a firearm I tell them just that here's my keys . You break the law officer ill be sure to tell the crown you did just that . 😉
This was great advise! Some of which I had known in earlier years. I have generally been one of those people that will volunteer information to the police, which has usually, but not always, worked in my favour.
Really like that you are helping everyone out by releasing your videos. I believe that I might have heard you speak in person once before. I really appreciate the info and advice that you give. Thank You!!!
Excellent vid as always. Would you be able to offer a list of firearms lawyers available to Canadians, say by province/territory? I wager more will be needed especially with current political proceedings going on.
Not really able to offer a certified list--at least at this point--when I recommend someone for firearms files, I pretty much want to talk to them or review their work so that I know they know the subject matter. It's a complicated subject area with a lot of specialized law, and it's an easy area to get in trouble on if you get things wrong.
If you are a member of a gun club they can probably recommend one. The Canadian Sports Shooting Association has a link to them cssa-cila.org/firearm-legal-defence-insurance/
Ex CO here. If you’re carrying long guns they are usually visible to the officer during a stop. All police have the authorities of CO’s and can check the status of your firearm and request a PAL and a hunting licence if your hunting. Loaded guns are usually seized as evidence and you will receive a ticket. You will have the option to dispute or pay the ticket. Most people pay the ticket and have their gun returned. Having said all that some police officers have very little knowledge about long guns and hunting regulations.
That's so crazy the timing on this. I've never been to sights and arms, nor heard of them until yesterday when I looked up a gunsmith. Now this morning I see this video on my feed and at the end there's a mention of all sights and arms. Small coincidence, or cosmic pathways?
Thanks for the information, its important that people know what their rights are. If you are stopped by the police late at night or on a holiday or weekend, and can't get your lawyer on the phone, what do you do then.
Great videos and advice Ian. I have just found your UA-cam channel this past week and greatly appreciate your content and advice. Thanks for the great work!!
With respect to restricted Firearms, my understanding was that it was it illegal to open a case at the roadside because you're then breaking a law and the officer can't ask you to break the law by asking you to open the case My instructor told us if the guy wants to open the case let him break it open but don't open it for him because then you could be charged technically if you do Only in Canada
Good evening tonight I was directed to your channel and I must say this is awesome information. More people need to see your channel. I just watched this episode. You did mention that fish and wildlife have more athortie then RCMP. I and I am sure many more would like to see a short video on what more athortie do Fish and wildlife have and what we need to know. Thank you good sir
Mr. Runkle, firstly, I just discovered your channel and what excellent content I found. Thanks. It's not clear to me from this video whether I am supposed to open any firearms transport cases at the side of the road if, not asked, rather ordered to by a police officer. Aren't I opening myself up to a Firearms Act charge if I do open the cases? That is, foregoing for the moment my Charter right regarding unreasonable search & seizure and the cost of the transport cases should I not comply. If I do not comply, may I not then be arrested and charged with one of several other charges?
Ian, thank you very much for this information. Peaceful gun enthusiasts such as myself need to know how to navigate the grey area that has been thrown at us by our federal government. I like how you use examples as well. -James Walper, Libertarian Party of Canada
Ouch. When I was studying teachers told us to provide as much as possible information to police when they stoped you. But I see that it was an absolutely wrong advise.
It used to be that, so long as you weren't a bad guy or a member of a minority group, the police used common sense. Now they're just savage and angry and have to get arrests to get promoted, and even honest citizens making honest mistakes have their lives ruined.
@@secretprotagonist6241 yeah, I was using that with a bit of irony. I agree with you about the boogeyman of terrorism and pigeonholing people as bad guys.
I had an interaction with a local LEO back in 1988 or 89. I was an employee and member of a local indoor shooting range. I was walking home from work one day, I had a rifle in a white cloth bag which did not advertise "FIREARM!!!" as well as a legally owned and registered revolver, stored and transported under the rules of the day as well as properly permitted to transport to and from the range, inside a gym bag on my shoulder. Now, I was about halfway home when the local PD cruiser drive by, pulled a U-turn and nearly hit me when pulling over. This 40 something female officer jumped out, "What are you doing on my streets with a shotgun?" I responded with, " it is a rifle, safely encased and I have an FAC in my wallet." Upon further query from her, I explained that I worked at the range, therefore was sent out for repair, been repaired and I am returning home with it. "What's in the bag?" I though, oh boy, here we go. "A revolver, properly registered, unloaded, trigger locked inside a locked case along with the Registration slip and Permit to Convey."to "I want to see it." I refused, she tried to get me to put it in the backseat so she could confirm my story. I continued to refuse, explaining that my permit allowed me to open the case at home or the range ONLY. If she was willing to drive me to either place, I would in fact , show her then. She went inside the car, radioed her sergeant, presumably, and a few minutes later told me to go straight home and stay off her streets with a shotgun. Bear in mind, I was 18 or 19 at the time, having a showdown with a much older officer who SHOULD have known the rules as she carried a revolver on duty. I was shaking like a leafinside, but my confidence in my understanding of the rules I was trying to follow were unshakeable.
I once got pulled over doing 118kmh in a 90 on a highway in orillia ON, I had a bolt action rifle in the back seat. They cop pulled me over and asked for my registration and insurance and license. I gave my license and was having a hard time finding my registration. I told him I had a rifle in the back seat as it was in plain sight and a matter of time before he saw it on his own. He was really cool abt it and asked me where I was headed, and for my license, to which I explained I was headed home after an unsuccessful bear hunt. After checking my pal He asked what caliber it was because he was curious I said .30-06, he then asked if that was enough for black bear to which I responded “OH ya, plenty.” He said cool. He didn’t run my drivers license, nor my registration and he didn’t even look at my insurance, he let me go with no warning just said “try to slow down” in recap, some cops are cool, some are not, they more you are cool with them they more they are inclined to be cool with you. If I were you I’d keep your guns in the trunk so that in the event you get pulled over everything is out of sight.
I know this is old but a guy at the club was taking a rifle and he had a loaded mag but not in the gun, he allowed the cop to look at a routine stop, the cop deemed that because the mag was in the same case then the gun was loaded, he got charged, he beat the charge $10,000.00 later
Thank you for the information. Appreciate this channel and your expertise in today’s world of unknowns. Merry Christmas as well ! All the best to you and yours . Stay safe
i am glad you said not including a fish and game officer, because that is a totally different story, they have the power to search any thing with out awarrant, your stopped by a fish and game officer and he she asks you to open the action of your fire arm/s, you best do so, or you can be charged, it is clearly stated in the hunting regs
I don't think there is any law that compels you to help or participate in a search of your property. If they want to search , I won't try to stop them or help them in any way.
Police have the same authority that COs do. But many don’t know their way around long guns or hunting regulations. Typical check requires licensing/PAL and to confirm your firearm is unloaded and everyone goes on their way.
My 2 cents worth here. On a lot of more expensive side by side or over under shotguns they are cocked upon closing of the action. Most men who care about the firearm take the safety off and pull the triggers to drop the internal hammers to relieve the spring pressure. That sir is what snap caps are for. You don’t dry fire these guns but you want the springs relaxed, especially for storage.
Question: If a police officer does break open your restricted case, finds nothing wrong and you are free to go. But now the case cannot be securely locked for transport, and I would be in violation if I did, what then? What do say to the officer? What is the next correct course of action?
I heard of a case where a cop demanded an owner to open a locked transit case for a handgun at the roadside, once he unlocked as ordered, he was charged for 'uncasing a restricted firearm'. If demanded, I think I would hand the keys to the cop so he uncases it. Opinions?
Hi Ian, I was wondering if you had any literature relating to the snap-cap charges? I often use snap-caps in my firearms and your mentioning this came as a surprise to me. Thanks!
If an opinion means nothing in a court of law; Why should, “the opinion of the OIC” matter in any way? (Delegated or not) This came from a very expensive lawyer, and his advice worked a 100% The use of “In my opinion” when asked anything on the stand. Great show my friend Thank you in advance should you decide to answer my question. I’m sure anyone with knowledge of this, could use an explanation.
One reason for snap-caps. Years ago I had a 1960's SxS hammered 12guage that cocked on closing. I would keep two lightly oiled snap-caps in it so I could 'drop the hammers' when I put it in storage. I didn't want to store it longterm cocked.
Seems like no matter the answer, it will cost you. Whether it be a lawyer, an additional ticket, or giving the full extent of what they're pulling you over for.
Obeying the law and having nothing to hide doesn't mean the police won't fuck with you and it certainly doesn't mean they won't coerce you into doing or saying something they can bust you for.
I personally would not volunteer information. That being said if asked, I may say that I don’t answer questions. under no circumstances would I outright lie.
What if they threaten to tow your vehicle in order to get what they want? Are we then legally required to declare to contents? How do we then protect our firearms out of our possession from theft? I've seen cops who don't get their way during a stop, declare that a vehicle is non compliant due to exhaust or other reason and then decide tow.
Yup, rule number 1 , don’t lie, rule number 2, don’t be a smart ass!!! Rule number 3 , have your firearms locked , in a proper case, ammo hidden sum what, rifle cases covered up, blanket works great! & living in crime city of Canada, N. B. SK. The LEO’s always ask when stopped, Do you have any weapons on you or in your vehicle? Cuts through to the chase, makes the traffic stop much better& faster, ( & safer for both parties) then your on your way!!🤙
You can’t remove snap caps from your hammerless hinge breach with out recocking it. I hate leaving my shot guns cocked and I hate dry firing them but I will not leave a snapcap in my gun while it is in my truck. Because rookies.
I was wondering about a snap cap scenario. I was guessing that it would count as unloaded and didn't think it would be covered, but I'm glad I watched until the end where he mentions them. I guess legally it doesn't count as loaded, but can still cause problems anyway.
Just replace “Crown” with DA and a lot of this can apply for Americans (except the part of transporting with a round in the chamber depending of the state you’re in and depending on if is in a case, in a holster or just sitting out in the open). Regardless of any exceptions for Americans vs what any Canadians may deal with, the essence of what he said still applies. “I do not consent to any searches” should be everybody’s default answer along with doing nothing to assist them. Two more things for Americans, one is you can’t be compelled to give up combinations and/or passwords that were created by you, are not written down and read when needed
Hi Ian. I hope you see my question and you can give me an answer. My question: Is a bayonet a legal item to own? Is there a limit to the length of a knife? I’m assuming not as swords are legal. But I just don’t know or searched out any answer until now.
Last year I was pulled over by an RCMP Constable for going 140 in a 100km/h zone. I was honestly, simply lost in conversation with my wife and was not deliberately speeding. When the constable arrived at the window he sounded really annoyed and I expected to get the book thrown at me. I explained my situation and he asked if I had any alcohol, or firearms in the car. I said, "yes, non-restricted rifles". He asked for my PAL and if they were "properly stored". I said yes. He walked back to his car, came back about 5 minutes later and said, in a firm voice, "SLOW DOWN". He then turned around and left... No ticket!!!! I'm sure (without evidence) that he let me go because I was honest and open about the guns. I'm sure Runkle is correct, but I'm glad I responded the way I did on that day!
Here's what makes me laugh about certain gun owners in Canada based on my experience. There is a certain type of gun owner out there that likes to cozy up to the police, parallel themselves with the police. In fact there is a Canadian youtuber that promotes such behavior. Gun owners are not cops and most cops don't give crap about guns during the course of their duties. Gun owners mind your own business.
Canada is a different beast than the states, with a different culture. Cops get crap training (and they know it) so they don't typically (typically being the operative word of course: there's bad ones in every box) have the superiority complex. They really are equal members of our gun clubs. That's not to say you should trust them: when you're at a stop you don't know who you're getting and there are some real shit heads, so treat them all as suspect until you get to know them well. Ditto with the long range guys from the military side: they'll never share anything on the internet for opsec reasons, but once they know you they'll help you out in every way they can.
No you do not ever have to answer questions until they charge you with something. They can detain you and pepper you with questions say nothing other than until my lawyer is present. LICENCE, REGISTRATION AND PROOF OF INSURANCE AND A BREATHALYZER IF DEMANDED. That is all you are required to provide by law.
During my RPAL course years ago the instructor touched on this topic as well as per how the law is/was written in that you are only allowed to have the restricted firearm at a range, gunsmith, store etc. and that by giving consent at a roadside officer Newbee could lay a charge as your firearm is now no longer cased and or trigger locked depending on the placement of the serial number. I never travel with goodies TARGETS in view. That way the questions may not arise.
While I would argue that the officer can legally open the case so the whole thing you described is one of those myths, the one good piece of advice in line with that is don’t keep the certificates in the case!
registered firearms means they're coming to get them eventually
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Excellent video and advice!!!!!!!!! :-) Being annoyed or offended is not a crime. Some would want it to be, but it is not!! You'd be surprised how many officers have no idea about the firearms laws. They hear gun, and many just want to arrest and charge you. There's no reason why an officer should need to be looking into your gun case if you are a legal firearm owner. Having nothing to hide is not a reason to give up your rights. I'd rather buy a new gun case then pay tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Gone is the time when many officers were also firearm enthusiasts. Today, many are anti-gun for anyone else. When you are transporting firearms. Have then properly secured and locked up if required, and have all you paperwork with you. But NEVER admit that you have firearms in the vehicle. Have them out of site so that no one will ever have reason to ask. That way you avoid the whole attempted conversation with the officer.
My rule for myself is when dealing with peace officers is if replacements are cheap compared to the alternative, let them take it. Or, in this case, break it. Cases and locks cost, sure, but reasonable doubt is priceless. Making your potential future lawyer's life easier is also more valuable than it may seem.
@@williamblaney3316 - Sorry, but refusing a breath sample is illegal and therefore _would_ be the "grounds of impairment" and give them the right to search/investigate the car. But what I'm implying is they'd have to request a breath sample before moving forward because they must prove you're impaired first by your either refusing to blow or blowing positive. If you blow clean, they have no grounds to search/investigate your vehicle/firearms from that point forward. If you refuse to blow or blow above the legal limit, well, you done f#%$ed up.
From what I understand watching this, carrying/transporting handguns is regulated, so if they ask to see your PAL/RPAL, you have to provide it. You are not required to let them inspect the guns.
Would a fire arm be considered “loaded” if ammo is in a side saddle on the stock? Or say in the Henry ar-7 having mags loaded and stored in the stock with the rest of the gun? I read somewhere it may be... thanks! Love the videos!
I’m sure Ian will do a video on that soon. In the meantime, always get your information first from a lawyer or legally trained educator, and second by going to the primary sources (not that guy on Facebook) - in this case you need the storage and transport regs made under the Firearms Act, which says: “unloaded, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm.“ Read that literally word by word, and the side-saddle will be fine. A loaded mag in the stock raises a risk of being “inserted into the firearm”, but I want Ian’s research on that for a proper opinion (which this is not). I love these videos!
Mike Unsworth a firearm stored OUTSIDE a locked container or safe can not have the ammo easily accessible. That’s the law. The question I have seen batted around is about a side saddle inside a locked container. You can have the ammo on the shelf above the firearm legally but sometimes people interpret the side saddle as being a loaded magazine attached to the side part of the regulations.
I can see the casing charge they will say you may have discharged the firearm form the vehicle I had a spent shell casing stuck in my 410 I couldn't get out in the field so I split the action and put the barrel in the trunk with the stock under a coat in the back seat after getting home I used a wooden dowel to remove it. The Snapcap one seems mind blowing in that sinaro I hope that cop was made to look a fool. Often it's with older guns its important to use a snapcap to protect the firing pin from dryfiring to stow decocked I never thought for second that a dummy round could be used to consider the gun loaded.
If a Police Officer pulls you over and sees a gun case in the back seat, he is going to ask why it is there and what type of firearm it is. He may also be trying to determine if the gun is in it, or somewhere else in the car ready to be pulled out and used on him. Unless he did a records check on the car lic plate before pulling the car over or approaching, he has no idea who is in the car and their state of being / nature. The owner of the car may not be the one driving (or even in the vehicle)... so he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't ask about it (my opinion). I am not sure about the US, but in Canada our gun rules are very strict...(some too much so) and if I remember correctly, does that not give him grounds to conduct a search of the vehicle? And if you refuse information about the weapons, couldn't that be construed as obstruction? The Officer may just be trying to determine what they are and why you have them. Sure - there are alot of gung-ho power-tripping cops out there but not all cops are bad. He could be asking for his own safety sake, or because something happened in the area involving a shooting / firearm. But if its not in view (say stored safely in the trunk) and it was a random stop or one for speeding, I wouldn't bring it up if they don't.
A point not mentioned and correct me if I am wrong but in Canada most laws concerning firearms are actually regulations which can basically change without public knowledge. Case in point is the recent list of banned firearms which is to my knowledge being changed weekly so as we are being advised in this presentation.... do not show which firearms you have in your possession.
What about a private, not for profit not a gun club shooting range. As I understand it the Firearms Act has no jurisdiction on private property. Can I shoot restricted, prohibited or full auto weapons on this type of range? This assumes the property is in a location where the discharge of a firearm is legal and safe to do so. Great video good info, Never volunteer, never consent, remain silent and contact a lawyer. I was a cop so I do understand what they look for. I have another question regarding my ATC for working in the bush. Can the CFO put in a condition that you must report the discharge of the carried firearm? She seems to believe that a handgun can only be discharged on approved ranges, she is wrong. But I now face a criminal charge because of this condition, that is not supported by the law, if I do not comply. Thanks for your efforts!!
Can you do one on CO's in BC. I was going to tell a CO "I am excersicing my right to not say anything" But thought it might be more hassel as I have my family in the car and I don't know what authority they have.
I once went to the range to sight in my lever-action hunting rifle and got a cartridge jammed bullet tip down in the action such that I couldn't work the lever. I called my gunsmith to ask what I should do about transporting the gun. He told me to put it in the gun case and zip it up as far as I could and then bring it to him immediately and that if I got stopped by the police en route to call my gunsmith back and let him talk to the police officer so that he could tell the officer that I was taking the gun directly to the gunsmith to have the cartridge removed. Thankfully, I didn't get stopped. What most likely would have happened if I had been stopped?
When I did my 2 courses, our instructor said to refuse showing them your firearms because they are only legally allowed to be displayed in your home, at a gunsmith or the range. He said if they want to see them insist they follow you to the range to inspect them. Not sure if this is good advice?
That is correct for restricted firearms because to legally transport them they have to have a secure locking device and be inside a locked case, so by unlocking the case at the side of the road it creates a illegal condition for transport
An OPP friend of mine told me that if you are wearing camo or they are hunting gear they then act under the Ontario hunting regulations and search your car anyway if they feel the need.
Could you go through the RCMP actions in the Hinton Alberta break and enter of many registered gun owner’s homes? Allegedly ammunition was also seized, which does not fall under the same legal definition as a firearm. As this was the homeowner’s “property” why weren’t charges of theft laid against the officers who illegally breached locked doors and destroyed property? Thank you.
Are police required to have a PAL? They carry a duty firearm but does that require them to have a PAL? Would a lack of the officer having a PAL put you in jeopardy of being charged by presenting/giving access to, your firearm in a roadside stop if a demand/request* made? * With the understanding to deny their "request".
Pardon my ignorance, but my legal knowledge is limited to what I remember from high school law class. What we were taught was that police had no authority to search your car unless they had probable cause. We were also taught that a refusal to a request to search your car was probable cause that you were hiding something, essentially giving them the right to search you whenever they wish. I hope this is incorrect. I understand the attitude that we need to stand up for our rights and never accept unlawful intrusion into our privacy. I also understand that I do not have the means to sustain a legal battle with the government. It’s very easy (and somewhat self-serving) for a lawyer to recommend everyone engage in actions that will then necessitate the hiring of a lawyer. Is there an organization in Canada similar to the USCCA which will provide legal support to members when they stand up to the police to defend their rights?
Also worth noting: Do NOT lie to the police. Refusing to answer a question is fine, and protected by the Charter in almost every circumstance (call a lawyer). But lying to the police is an offence (obstructing a peace officer), and will ruin your day.
Solid advice, thank you!
The first words out my mouth when asked a question from a police officer is, "Am I being detained"?
@TrueAnarchy You're god damn Right!
@TrueAnarchy the prick pierre elliot turdeau took that right 40 years ago
Lying about anything to police is a bad idea. They can often hit you with criminal charges for it--regardless about whether it's about a gun--and even if not, lying to the officer will make your situation worse.
I had a situation when I was 18 where I was walking home from the range with 1) a rifle in a cloth back with the bolt removed and 2) a registered revolver, with a trigger lock in a locked case with the paperwork and the case inside a gym bag.
The police drove by, pulled a U-turn and nearly hit me when pulling to the shoulder. She demanded what I was doing with a "shotgun" on HER streets. I explained what I had and why and that it was perfectly legal. She demanded my FAC (current at the time). She asked what was in the bag. When I explained, she demanded to see it, I refused as I was outside both the range and my residence. "Put it on the back seat and open it up." I kept refusing for the reasons stated above and that I could lose my permit and firearm. I offered to open it for her IF she transported me to either the range or home. She jumped on the radio with her supervisor and after a brief exchange, she broke contact and sent me on my way with a warning that she better not see me on HER streets with a SHOTGUN again! Sorry, lady, I was within the law. I may have still been a teenager and she would have been pushing 40 or older, but I knew my firearms law better than she did and used that to my advantage in the situation.
@@Marlboro65 And you were 18 ?
Gotta live cops who tell you to break the law to prove you aren't breaking the law. She had zero clue, she is probably afraid of her own service pistol.
My RPAL course was taught by a retired Police officer. He was adamant that we should never tell an officer that we are transporting firearms (in the context you describe). His reasoning was that most officers have very little or cursory at best, knowledge of the firearms regulations pertaining to their transport.
Same instructor! ex vpd etc etc?
He and his colleague are wicked good instructors.
I went through a DUI check stop with my shotgun in the backseat (unloaded with the action open). The cops freaked out and grabbed it it without asking me. The cop went on and on about how it was illegal to have a firearm in my vehicle in town and that I needed to have it locked etc. I just said that as long as it was unloaded and I was present in the vehicle I didn't need to lock it. He then said "good thing we are doing a DUI checkpoint and don't have time to charge you with this. " The thing is that if I was actually breaking the law he would have charged me because firearm charges are considered to be very serious.
DUI inspections are the sole purpose for DUI's only ....if they do other than that you should file a complaint !
a police officer said that even if you had no seatbelt they can not ticket you for a seatbelt infraction ...this is right out of the mouth of a recently retired officer !
Lol way to potentially take one for the team, we need all the precedent we can get. Jokes aside though that could've been very expensive, at least throw a blanket on it jesus 🤣
Same rule here, as long as it is in your possession, unloaded you do not require it to be encased.
@@DLN-ix6vf don’t be pretentious. The transportation law for non restricted is clear. As long as you’re in the vehicle the only thing you have to do is to have the gun unloaded.
Nothing more nothing else.
@@DLN-ix6vf well I’m following the law by the dot on this mindset. If you wanna go ahead and add more steps for transporting your firearms you can do that, just don’t go out calling people names because of your own decisions.
Ian Runkle is a great Canadian. We at our heart should be a country of principles and morals, and he is a great defender of those principles.
Well said 👌, wish the algorithm had suggested him sooner, it was exactly what I'd been searching around youtube, for over a year
Officers incapable of telling the difference between a snap cap and a live cartridge shouldn't be carrying a firearm.
@@douganderson7002 it is part of the Canadian restricted fire arms safety course to handle load and unload all types of actions including revolvers and semi automatics, as is identifying inert and live ammunition
andrew harley true, and it’s worth noting they receive the equivalent of the CFSC AND CRFSC at depot or whatever police academy although they are not granted a license. It’s just a part of the firearms familiarization and safety training component.
Right on.
@@TheWolfsnack Doesn't surprise me.
@@AHarley18 Unfortunately, law enforcement officers don't require either the safety course or a PAL/RPAL to carry a service firearm. How ironic that they should be in charge of enforcing gun safety regulations.
My Dad was a retired Police Supervisor. He always told me to keep my mouth shut, but be respectful.
Why do we have to cower in front of government employees who get paid with our taxes. As long as we aren’t breaking laws they shouldn’t be able to even talk to us
In short: The police are NOT your friends. Don't trust them. Don't assist them. They're out to get you. But at the same time, don't OBSTRUCT them.
I have some very close friends who are police, but even they tell me police are not my friends. Having friends who aren't your friends is all very confusing 😁
I look at it that they aren't out to get me, they are out to find breaches of the law, no matter who it is. It isn't personal, it is their job. Off the clock, many cops overlook minor infractions, like a bottle of 'shine at a party, or a Cuban cigar, but, not a major issue like coke or an illegal firearm.
They are people, and just like all of us, they have a job to do; unfortunately, that job is catching us doing something wrong and they have to assume everyone is lying, since most do, which is why they try to trip you up with conversation.
@@lelandlewis7207 You know, the difference is good cops look to make the community better, and often a verbal warning or a flash of the red and blues ("if I was a dick you'd be getting a ticket right now"... I got red and blued on a section of highway where I thought it was safe to speed and I haven't sped there since, no ticket required!) is enough to accomplish the goal, but some (and this certainly isn't the majority, just enough to blemish the reputation) get off on catching you with your pants down. I have no problem with tickets or charges being given if that's what it takes to change the culture of a community, but usually, relationship building is far more effective.
In other words make police your friends because they are more likely to say that I gave you that advice so I'm fine with that
@Willy yes, they were illegal under the original sanctions during the Cold War under the "Trading With the Enemy Act". President Obama eased restrictions working toward renewed relations, but Trump tightened restrictions in 2020, including Cuban alcohol and tobacco for personal use.
"Anything that is coming out of your mouth is worsening your situation." and "If your mouth is moving, your situation is getting worse."
Words to remember and live by. Thank you for that, Mr. Runkle.
100%
Never ever volunteer information to a cop, it will only ever be used to negatively affect your life.
Lol that applies to my ex wife too. And that was when and before we were married, she'd take what i said and twist as a negative in future conversations, situations which she'd make an argument about nothing.🥴🤪
Geez, remember when we used to hang our guns in the back window of the pickup truck. That would pretty much bring down a swat team these days.
I remember that as a kid back in the 70's when was that banned?
@@seap9570 It wasn't. Police asked that we not do it because it scares people...Also, somehow the onus got shifted onto victims, that when we get robbed it's because we "advertised them" in the back of our vehicle, or "didn't lock our doors": it's a little like the "showed too much skin so she got raped" argument, instead of blame being placed squarely at the feet of the poor disenfranchised criminal who didn't get enough of mommy's love.
Sorry for the rant, but yes so long as it's a non-restricted it's completely legal, but you can count on getting asked repeatedly not to do it.
@@wilfdarr So true, in theory if your shotgun or riffle is unloaded, you would even be legal to put it over your shoulder and walk the street... Good luck trying to exercise this legal right... 😀😀😀
Wilfred Darr from the “Act”... “(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.”
@@mikpopiel473
That's the beauty of nonsense in our laws: "transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle"
If one uses the logic, those words contradict themselves...
But hey, this is not that bad, there are even worse definitions in our laws!
I'd love for you to go over the legal implications of truck guns. Transportation vs storage of non restricted in vehicles. It's always been somthing of a grey area to my understanding.
As an American living in a relatively gun-friendly state Oklahoma, what you describe as the law is very chilling. We may be facing similar laws nationwide sooner than many people believe. I have watched several of your firearms law videos, and it appears that Canadian gun laws are far more draconian than those of gun-hating states like New York, New Jersey or California
They are, don’t give them an inch, they’re coming for all firearms.
The government here has conned Canadians into believing owning a firearm is a privledge not a right. When did this happen there were virtually no gun laws until the late 1800s early 1900s. All these laws are constructs of government many passed without the approval of the citizens. Trudeau has been passing laws, bans and penalties even jail time all passed on zero evidence, zero proof it was required and circumvented our democratic process by using a OIC. Our present liberal government is one of the most corrupt governments we have ever seen, so unless the officer has a document , search warrent, the answer is NO. If he chooses to ignore our rights and forcibly takes our guns then time to sue.
@@CommieCrusher87 yup and the liberal politician will have everyone believe it’s legal gun owners fault that crime exists. Trudeau banned handguns and wants to bang on doors collecting them. Liberals would give up every freedom to be protected themselves from thinking
at least I don't want canada to have the nightmare gun culture that the us has
Yes, please remain in Canada@@mapofthesoultagme7143
THANK YOU,finally some great canadian advice.As an outdoorsman we have firearms and knives, there is so many grey areas in our laws regarding above mentioned it is very confusing. I really want to thank you for having this channel it is so important that we can get this information in a well presented form that we can understand!!!!
Thanks for the solid information. I definitely used to be the “I’m not doing anything wrong, so I’ll comply with anything.” If I happened to be in a situation like that. But I’ve changed my perspective now.
In my firearms training we were told to tell the cop he knows it’s illegal to open that case at the side of the road so if he wants to see what’s inside he has to follow you back to the gun range to open the case .....
That is what I was told too.
@Me. Me They're assuming it's a restricted gun in the case, in which case it's illegal. If it's a non-restricted, then you are correct that it wouldn't be illegal to open the case.
Thank you for pointing this discrepancy out because I was thinking about using this answer, but since I only have a PAL (not R-PAL), telling the officer that it's illegal to open the case would insinuate that I have restricted weapons with only a PAL, which would make for an...shall we say "interesting" conversation...
@@wilfdarr Thats what I hear, do not open a legal case. The other thing the range officer said was if the police wants to see it, refuse on those grounds but offer to call the CFO's office to get their opinion on the matter.
@@wilfdarr I have RPAL and my restricted is unloaded with a trigger lock in a locked case when I transport. Also when home it goes In the safe just the same .... I also carry my non restricted in a case the same as my restricted. Of a cop looks at that he’s going to have to bust through the case or cut the locks off which shows I haven’t given consent. It’s safer anyway to treat your non restricted as restricted when your transport, in my opinion.
@@SwordofRagnar I suppose the standard answer of "I'm sorry but before I consent to anything, I'll have to consult with my LAWYER" would not be inappropriate here.
The one that gets me is "do you have any weapons on you" when its hunting season.
No officer, just my hunting tools.
Makes me cringe at the whole system.
Ah ha moment for me. If I have an illegal weapon on me, wouldn’t o have the right to Fifth Amendment rights to not answer. It certainly would be self incrimination. Hmmm
The unites states constitution does not apply to Canada
Produce your deer tags lol😂
Probably should add that there's a big difference between not answering, and lying. Don't lie.
Very much this--hmm, if I missed that, I'll pin a comment.
That'll depend on circumstances, but in most cases it's not worth it.
@@RunkleOfTheBailey I feel like a making a point to right a wrong doing, can be worth it on it's own.
@@RunkleOfTheBailey "in most cases" - good one!
Punchline of the year "Preserve your rights". If I've seen anything this year it's that in Canada you have the right to do what you're told.
Unless you're a liberal party member
@@darrensaltiel440 whaaat! Theyre licking boots like its going out of style. Tneyre all,the same red tory and their orange pals plus blue tory
I have on several occasions been asked this question. My response has always been; “why do you ask?”. And before they have a chance to answer, I take the conversation in a different direction. I have yet had a LEO follow through and look through my vehicle or check my firearms. I did not lie.
Absolutely!
The best response to a question we do not wish to answer is often:
“Why do you want to know that?”.
UA-cam is loaded with advance about firearms and what is and isn't legal. Your videos are some of the very few that explain why you should do or say different things. I'm living in the constitutional carry state of Arizona and I do carry most of the time when away from home or driving. We don't have to inform officers we have firearms but I myself and others I know will inform officers we have weapons so it doesn't appear we are reaching for them when removing our license and I have never had an issue with it. I do appreciate your information about letting them break into the gun case and explaining the reason for it. I know gun control is different in Canada but many of your videos explain how small interpretations of laws can make or break you regardless of what side of the border your on.
Say, can the police in AZ know if you have a CCW permit when they run your car tag? BTW, love Scottsdale, Camelback Mountain! lol
@@mmpiforall5913 I know in the 90s oregon knew but I haven't had a need for ccw in Arizona. We can carry with out almost everywhere. But areas such as indian reservation laws are all over the place so as a rule I avoid reservation if I'm carrying.
Thank you so very much for empowering your viewers with valuable information.
The legal system is such a difficult road to navigate!
Respectfully, sir, I decline to answer that question. Seems like a reasonable response to me.
Yep, an excellent answer.
Sorry pal I can't hear you I'm deaf. works better.
@@pistooli1 Only if you are deaf and did not hear them.
I think it triggers on your drivers license if you have a PAL
@@ladyluck5248 Yes it does also if it is a RPAL for restricted weapons'
This video is perfect. Legal knowledge and an adorable puppy that made me smile. I couldn't ask for more.
funny, missed the puppy while I scrolled down to read the comments
then I hear that goofy scratch scratch sound
scroll back up
and there's the dog
Puppy: two empty dishes!...the horror...the horror.
I am really appreciating your videos on firearms related law in Canada. It is definitely helping me better understand our legal system, and how to navigate it even MORE carefully as a law abiding gun owner. God knows it's hard enough as it is.
It occurs to me, that in the case of a restricted firearm, opening the case while in between the range and home, would immediately be a felony. So even if the cop was just curious, the moment you open the case, it's not longer being transported legally.
Well said
If they ever want to see a firearm I tell them just that here's my keys . You break the law officer ill be sure to tell the crown you did just that . 😉
It's so good to see some Canadian advise on our complex gun laws that are easily interpreted to suit the situation. Knowledge is power. Thank you
This was great advise! Some of which I had known in earlier years. I have generally been one of those people that will volunteer information to the police, which has usually, but not always, worked in my favour.
Really like that you are helping everyone out by releasing your videos. I believe that I might have heard you speak in person once before. I really appreciate the info and advice that you give. Thank You!!!
Definitely appreciate this popping up in my feed 👌 .. Because I sadly know more about American laws than I do Canadian ones 😬 knowledge is power 😎
There's so much more info available to them. Mr Runkle is much needed in our country!
Excellent vid as always. Would you be able to offer a list of firearms lawyers available to Canadians, say by province/territory? I wager more will be needed especially with current political proceedings going on.
Not really able to offer a certified list--at least at this point--when I recommend someone for firearms files, I pretty much want to talk to them or review their work so that I know they know the subject matter. It's a complicated subject area with a lot of specialized law, and it's an easy area to get in trouble on if you get things wrong.
I only know a few names, from the 'net. Solomon Friedman, Jordana Goldlist, Pierre Plourde. And Mr. Runkle, of course.
If you are a member of a gun club they can probably recommend one. The Canadian Sports Shooting Association has a link to them cssa-cila.org/firearm-legal-defence-insurance/
Ex CO here. If you’re carrying long guns they are usually visible to the officer during a stop. All police have the authorities of CO’s and can check the status of your firearm and request a PAL and a hunting licence if your hunting. Loaded guns are usually seized as evidence and you will receive a ticket. You will have the option to dispute or pay the ticket. Most people pay the ticket and have their gun returned. Having said all that some police officers have very little knowledge about long guns and hunting regulations.
Thanks Ian. You do great work. This was good clarification. Love the pups.
That's so crazy the timing on this.
I've never been to sights and arms, nor heard of them until yesterday when I looked up a gunsmith. Now this morning I see this video on my feed and at the end there's a mention of all sights and arms. Small coincidence, or cosmic pathways?
Thanks for the information, its important that people know what their rights are. If you are stopped by the police late at night or on a holiday or weekend, and can't get your lawyer on the phone, what do you do then.
Great videos and advice Ian. I have just found your UA-cam channel this past week and greatly appreciate your content and advice. Thanks for the great work!!
With respect to restricted Firearms, my understanding was that it was it illegal to open a case at the roadside because you're then breaking a law and the officer can't ask you to break the law by asking you to open the case
My instructor told us if the guy wants to open the case let him break it open but don't open it for him because then you could be charged technically if you do
Only in Canada
Correct.
Unfortunately the defense of "officially induced error" is not available to you in the Criminal Code context but I'll let Runkle confirm.
Good evening tonight I was directed to your channel and I must say this is awesome information. More people need to see your channel. I just watched this episode. You did mention that fish and wildlife have more athortie then RCMP. I and I am sure many more would like to see a short video on what more athortie do Fish and wildlife have and what we need to know.
Thank you good sir
So well done. I'm the type to comply I have nothing to hide, but your arguments win the day.
Mr. Runkle, firstly, I just discovered your channel and what excellent content I found. Thanks.
It's not clear to me from this video whether I am supposed to open any firearms transport cases at the side of the road if, not asked, rather ordered to by a police officer. Aren't I opening myself up to a Firearms Act charge if I do open the cases? That is, foregoing for the moment my Charter right regarding unreasonable search & seizure and the cost of the transport cases should I not comply. If I do not comply, may I not then be arrested and charged with one of several other charges?
Thanks so much for doing your videos! They are always very informative and we really like watching them!
Ian, thank you very much for this information. Peaceful gun enthusiasts such as myself need to know how to navigate the grey area that has been thrown at us by our federal government. I like how you use examples as well. -James Walper, Libertarian Party of Canada
Well said.
As a prospective gun owner, (pal in process) this channel has been a godsend for the unholy amount of logic puzzles involved with modern law😂
Ouch. When I was studying teachers told us to provide as much as possible information to police when they stoped you. But I see that it was an absolutely wrong advise.
Maybe your course instructors were ex cops and thus unaware of how things have changed.
It used to be that, so long as you weren't a bad guy or a member of a minority group, the police used common sense.
Now they're just savage and angry and have to get arrests to get promoted, and even honest citizens making honest mistakes have their lives ruined.
@@kirstinmorrell sounds about right honestly.
@@kirstinmorrell Not bad guy, but law enforcement and governments use the word "bad guy", "terrorism" as psychological warfare I assume.
@@secretprotagonist6241 yeah, I was using that with a bit of irony. I agree with you about the boogeyman of terrorism and pigeonholing people as bad guys.
Thanks a Trillion with a "T" for shedding light and the education/knowledge in this regard. Liked and subscribed.
I had an interaction with a local LEO back in 1988 or 89.
I was an employee and member of a local indoor shooting range. I was walking home from work one day, I had a rifle in a white cloth bag which did not advertise "FIREARM!!!" as well as a legally owned and registered revolver, stored and transported under the rules of the day as well as properly permitted to transport to and from the range, inside a gym bag on my shoulder.
Now, I was about halfway home when the local PD cruiser drive by, pulled a U-turn and nearly hit me when pulling over. This 40 something female officer jumped out, "What are you doing on my streets with a shotgun?"
I responded with, " it is a rifle, safely encased and I have an FAC in my wallet." Upon further query from her, I explained that I worked at the range, therefore was sent out for repair, been repaired and I am returning home with it.
"What's in the bag?" I though, oh boy, here we go. "A revolver, properly registered, unloaded, trigger locked inside a locked case along with the Registration slip and Permit to Convey."to
"I want to see it." I refused, she tried to get me to put it in the backseat so she could confirm my story. I continued to refuse, explaining that my permit allowed me to open the case at home or the range ONLY. If she was willing to drive me to either place, I would in fact , show her then.
She went inside the car, radioed her sergeant, presumably, and a few minutes later told me to go straight home and stay off her streets with a shotgun. Bear in mind, I was 18 or 19 at the time, having a showdown with a much older officer who SHOULD have known the rules as she carried a revolver on duty. I was shaking like a leafinside, but my confidence in my understanding of the rules I was trying to follow were unshakeable.
thank you for all the information. It is great to get these laws easier to understand. Thank you
I once got pulled over doing 118kmh in a 90 on a highway in orillia ON, I had a bolt action rifle in the back seat. They cop pulled me over and asked for my registration and insurance and license. I gave my license and was having a hard time finding my registration. I told him I had a rifle in the back seat as it was in plain sight and a matter of time before he saw it on his own. He was really cool abt it and asked me where I was headed, and for my license, to which I explained I was headed home after an unsuccessful bear hunt. After checking my pal He asked what caliber it was because he was curious I said .30-06, he then asked if that was enough for black bear to which I responded “OH ya, plenty.” He said cool. He didn’t run my drivers license, nor my registration and he didn’t even look at my insurance, he let me go with no warning just said “try to slow down” in recap, some cops are cool, some are not, they more you are cool with them they more they are inclined to be cool with you. If I were you I’d keep your guns in the trunk so that in the event you get pulled over everything is out of sight.
Did you add that a 30-06 is more than plenty to get through a vest 😂
I know this is old but a guy at the club was taking a rifle and he had a loaded mag but not in the gun, he allowed the cop to look at a routine stop, the cop deemed that because the mag was in the same case then the gun was loaded, he got charged, he beat the charge $10,000.00 later
Reasonable suspicion is a famous line, an example may be for open alcohol in the vehicle because the driver is of drinking age.
Thank you for the information. Appreciate this channel and your expertise in today’s world of unknowns. Merry Christmas as well ! All the best to you and yours . Stay safe
i am glad you said not including a fish and game officer, because that is a totally different story, they have the power to search any thing with out awarrant, your stopped by a fish and game officer and he she asks you to open the action of your fire arm/s, you best do so, or you can be charged, it is clearly stated in the hunting regs
I don't think there is any law that compels you to help or participate in a search of your property. If they want to search , I won't try to stop them or help them in any way.
Police have the same authority that COs do. But many don’t know their way around long guns or hunting regulations. Typical check requires licensing/PAL and to confirm your firearm is unloaded and everyone goes on their way.
@@samspade1841it can be loaded just not on the chamber.
My 2 cents worth here. On a lot of more expensive side by side or over under shotguns they are cocked upon closing of the action. Most men who care about the firearm take the safety off and pull the triggers to drop the internal hammers to relieve the spring pressure. That sir is what snap caps are for. You don’t dry fire these guns but you want the springs relaxed, especially for storage.
Question:
If a police officer does break open your restricted case, finds nothing wrong and you are free to go. But now the case cannot be securely locked for transport, and I would be in violation if I did, what then?
What do say to the officer?
What is the next correct course of action?
@RunkleOfTheBailey great question
I heard of a case where a cop demanded an owner to open a locked transit case for a handgun at the roadside, once he unlocked as ordered, he was charged for 'uncasing a restricted firearm'. If demanded, I think I would hand the keys to the cop so he uncases it. Opinions?
I'd love to see one of these videos done for interacting with a MNR officer.
Thank you very much for this information, the knowledge is greatly appreciated
Always educational Thank you for your time.
Hi Ian,
I was wondering if you had any literature relating to the snap-cap charges? I often use snap-caps in my firearms and your mentioning this came as a surprise to me.
Thanks!
I would transport in a case with a trigger lock
And the ammo is separate in another locked case
great insight here Mr. Runkle. 🤗. cheers.
If an opinion means nothing in a court of law;
Why should, “the opinion of the OIC”
matter in any way? (Delegated or not)
This came from a very expensive lawyer, and his advice worked a 100%
The use of “In my opinion” when asked anything on the stand.
Great show my friend
Thank you in advance should you decide to answer my question.
I’m sure anyone with knowledge of this, could use an explanation.
Can they ask to see your PAL if they see a firearm in your car?
One reason for snap-caps.
Years ago I had a 1960's SxS hammered 12guage that cocked on closing.
I would keep two lightly oiled snap-caps in it so I could 'drop the hammers' when I put it in storage.
I didn't want to store it longterm cocked.
Snap-caps are to allow relaxing the firing pin or hammer spring. They are inert and not live rounds.
Jesus Christ he says hope your armed with info and then has a dogvideo mike drop... Subbed my man
Seems like no matter the answer, it will cost you. Whether it be a lawyer, an additional ticket, or giving the full extent of what they're pulling you over for.
Obeying the law and having nothing to hide doesn't mean the police won't fuck with you and it certainly doesn't mean they won't coerce you into doing or saying something they can bust you for.
I personally would not volunteer information. That being said if asked, I may say that I don’t answer questions. under no circumstances would I outright lie.
What if they threaten to tow your vehicle in order to get what they want? Are we then legally required to declare to contents? How do we then protect our firearms out of our possession from theft?
I've seen cops who don't get their way during a stop, declare that a vehicle is non compliant due to exhaust or other reason and then decide tow.
Yup, rule number 1 , don’t lie, rule number 2, don’t be a smart ass!!! Rule number 3 , have your firearms locked , in a proper case, ammo hidden sum what, rifle cases covered up, blanket works great! & living in crime city of Canada, N. B. SK. The LEO’s always ask when stopped, Do you have any weapons on you or in your vehicle? Cuts through to the chase, makes the traffic stop much better& faster, ( & safer for both parties) then your on your way!!🤙
You can’t remove snap caps from your hammerless hinge breach with out recocking it. I hate leaving my shot guns cocked and I hate dry firing them but I will not leave a snapcap in my gun while it is in my truck. Because rookies.
Funny I live in NB as well and I've never been asked if I had any weapons during a traffic stop
I was wondering about a snap cap scenario. I was guessing that it would count as unloaded and didn't think it would be covered, but I'm glad I watched until the end where he mentions them.
I guess legally it doesn't count as loaded, but can still cause problems anyway.
Just replace “Crown” with DA and a lot of this can apply for Americans (except the part of transporting with a round in the chamber depending of the state you’re in and depending on if is in a case, in a holster or just sitting out in the open).
Regardless of any exceptions for Americans vs what any Canadians may deal with, the essence of what he said still applies. “I do not consent to any searches” should be everybody’s default answer along with doing nothing to assist them. Two more things for Americans, one is you can’t be compelled to give up combinations and/or passwords that were created by you, are not written down and read when needed
Hi Ian. I hope you see my question and you can give me an answer. My question: Is a bayonet a legal item to own? Is there a limit to the length of a knife? I’m assuming not as swords are legal. But I just don’t know or searched out any answer until now.
Last year I was pulled over by an RCMP Constable for going 140 in a 100km/h zone. I was honestly, simply lost in conversation with my wife and was not deliberately speeding. When the constable arrived at the window he sounded really annoyed and I expected to get the book thrown at me. I explained my situation and he asked if I had any alcohol, or firearms in the car. I said, "yes, non-restricted rifles". He asked for my PAL and if they were "properly stored". I said yes. He walked back to his car, came back about 5 minutes later and said, in a firm voice, "SLOW DOWN". He then turned around and left... No ticket!!!! I'm sure (without evidence) that he let me go because I was honest and open about the guns.
I'm sure Runkle is correct, but I'm glad I responded the way I did on that day!
Here's what makes me laugh about certain gun owners in Canada based on my experience. There is a certain type of gun owner out there that likes to cozy up to the police, parallel themselves with the police. In fact there is a Canadian youtuber that promotes such behavior. Gun owners are not cops and most cops don't give crap about guns during the course of their duties. Gun owners mind your own business.
Canada is a different beast than the states, with a different culture. Cops get crap training (and they know it) so they don't typically (typically being the operative word of course: there's bad ones in every box) have the superiority complex. They really are equal members of our gun clubs.
That's not to say you should trust them: when you're at a stop you don't know who you're getting and there are some real shit heads, so treat them all as suspect until you get to know them well.
Ditto with the long range guys from the military side: they'll never share anything on the internet for opsec reasons, but once they know you they'll help you out in every way they can.
Never, ever volunteer any information to a cop. They are NOT your friend
100%!
No you do not ever have to answer questions until they charge you with something. They can detain you and pepper you with questions say nothing other than until my lawyer is present. LICENCE, REGISTRATION AND PROOF OF INSURANCE AND A BREATHALYZER IF DEMANDED. That is all you are required to provide by law.
I'll only show them mine if they show me theirs...
During my RPAL course years ago the instructor touched on this topic as well as per how the law is/was written in that you are only allowed to have the restricted firearm at a range, gunsmith, store etc. and that by giving consent at a roadside officer Newbee could lay a charge as your firearm is now no longer cased and or trigger locked depending on the placement of the serial number. I never travel with goodies TARGETS in view. That way the questions may not arise.
While I would argue that the officer can legally open the case so the whole thing you described is one of those myths, the one good piece of advice in line with that is don’t keep the certificates in the case!
registered firearms means they're coming to get them eventually
Excellent video and advice!!!!!!!!! :-)
Being annoyed or offended is not a crime. Some would want it to be, but it is not!! You'd be surprised how many officers have no idea about the firearms laws. They hear gun, and many just want to arrest and charge you. There's no reason why an officer should need to be looking into your gun case if you are a legal firearm owner. Having nothing to hide is not a reason to give up your rights.
I'd rather buy a new gun case then pay tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
Gone is the time when many officers were also firearm enthusiasts. Today, many are anti-gun for anyone else.
When you are transporting firearms. Have then properly secured and locked up if required, and have all you paperwork with you. But NEVER admit that you have firearms in the vehicle. Have them out of site so that no one will ever have reason to ask. That way you avoid the whole attempted conversation with the officer.
My rule for myself is when dealing with peace officers is if replacements are cheap compared to the alternative, let them take it. Or, in this case, break it. Cases and locks cost, sure, but reasonable doubt is priceless. Making your potential future lawyer's life easier is also more valuable than it may seem.
Under the new driving laws though, they have GIVEN them the power to search on the grounds of impairment? Then they have access to your vehicle.
Would they not have to prove you're impaired first, before implementing a search based on such?
@@Perry_Wolf not in Canada now. They may request breath sample at any time. If you refuse you are charged.
@@williamblaney3316 - Sorry, but refusing a breath sample is illegal and therefore _would_ be the "grounds of impairment" and give them the right to search/investigate the car. But what I'm implying is they'd have to request a breath sample before moving forward because they must prove you're impaired first by your either refusing to blow or blowing positive. If you blow clean, they have no grounds to search/investigate your vehicle/firearms from that point forward. If you refuse to blow or blow above the legal limit, well, you done f#%$ed up.
On the way to or from the range with handguns that are restricted am I obligated to show my restricted weapons and PAL to the storm troopers ?
From what I understand watching this, carrying/transporting handguns is regulated, so if they ask to see your PAL/RPAL, you have to provide it. You are not required to let them inspect the guns.
Would a fire arm be considered “loaded” if ammo is in a side saddle on the stock? Or say in the Henry ar-7 having mags loaded and stored in the stock with the rest of the gun? I read somewhere it may be... thanks!
Love the videos!
I asked a similar question about a side saddle on a shotgun in a locked cabinet.
I’m sure Ian will do a video on that soon. In the meantime, always get your information first from a lawyer or legally trained educator, and second by going to the primary sources (not that guy on Facebook) - in this case you need the storage and transport regs made under the Firearms Act, which says: “unloaded, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm.“ Read that literally word by word, and the side-saddle will be fine. A loaded mag in the stock raises a risk of being “inserted into the firearm”, but I want Ian’s research on that for a proper opinion (which this is not). I love these videos!
Mike Unsworth a firearm stored OUTSIDE a locked container or safe can not have the ammo easily accessible. That’s the law.
The question I have seen batted around is about a side saddle inside a locked container. You can have the ammo on the shelf above the firearm legally but sometimes people interpret the side saddle as being a loaded magazine attached to the side part of the regulations.
Michael A Loberg that’s always been my reading of the regs as well but I’d like to hear it from a lawyer.
@@rjstewart Always a good idea...
I can see the casing charge they will say you may have discharged the firearm form the vehicle I had a spent shell casing stuck in my 410 I couldn't get out in the field so I split the action and put the barrel in the trunk with the stock under a coat in the back seat after getting home I used a wooden dowel to remove it. The Snapcap one seems mind blowing in that sinaro I hope that cop was made to look a fool. Often it's with older guns its important to use a snapcap to protect the firing pin from dryfiring to stow decocked I never thought for second that a dummy round could be used to consider the gun loaded.
Thank you! Will be passing your videos on!
Much appreciated.
If a Police Officer pulls you over and sees a gun case in the back seat, he is going to ask why it is there and what type of firearm it is. He may also be trying to determine if the gun is in it, or somewhere else in the car ready to be pulled out and used on him. Unless he did a records check on the car lic plate before pulling the car over or approaching, he has no idea who is in the car and their state of being / nature. The owner of the car may not be the one driving (or even in the vehicle)... so he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't ask about it (my opinion). I am not sure about the US, but in Canada our gun rules are very strict...(some too much so) and if I remember correctly, does that not give him grounds to conduct a search of the vehicle? And if you refuse information about the weapons, couldn't that be construed as obstruction? The Officer may just be trying to determine what they are and why you have them. Sure - there are alot of gung-ho power-tripping cops out there but not all cops are bad. He could be asking for his own safety sake, or because something happened in the area involving a shooting / firearm. But if its not in view (say stored safely in the trunk) and it was a random stop or one for speeding, I wouldn't bring it up if they don't.
A point not mentioned and correct me if I am wrong but in Canada most laws concerning firearms are actually regulations which can basically change without public knowledge. Case in point is the recent list of banned firearms which is to my knowledge being changed weekly so as we are being advised in this presentation.... do not show which firearms you have in your possession.
"Am I being detained"? yes, then I respectfully request a lawyer Officer ________. No, thank you officer have a good day.
What about a private, not for profit not a gun club shooting range. As I understand it the Firearms Act has no jurisdiction on private property. Can I shoot restricted, prohibited or full auto weapons on this type of range? This assumes the property is in a location where the discharge of a firearm is legal and safe to do so.
Great video good info, Never volunteer, never consent, remain silent and contact a lawyer. I was a cop so I do understand what they look for.
I have another question regarding my ATC for working in the bush. Can the CFO put in a condition that you must report the discharge of the carried firearm? She seems to believe that a handgun can only be discharged on approved ranges, she is wrong. But I now face a criminal charge because of this condition, that is not supported by the law, if I do not comply.
Thanks for your efforts!!
Can you do one on CO's in BC. I was going to tell a CO "I am excersicing my right to not say anything" But thought it might be more hassel as I have my family in the car and I don't know what authority they have.
Good information and well presented. Thanks.
I once went to the range to sight in my lever-action hunting rifle and got a cartridge jammed bullet tip down in the action such that I couldn't work the lever. I called my gunsmith to ask what I should do about transporting the gun. He told me to put it in the gun case and zip it up as far as I could and then bring it to him immediately and that if I got stopped by the police en route to call my gunsmith back and let him talk to the police officer so that he could tell the officer that I was taking the gun directly to the gunsmith to have the cartridge removed. Thankfully, I didn't get stopped. What most likely would have happened if I had been stopped?
Lol talk about being paranoid 🤣
When I did my 2 courses, our instructor said to refuse showing them your firearms because they are only legally allowed to be displayed in your home, at a gunsmith or the range. He said if they want to see them insist they follow you to the range to inspect them. Not sure if this is good advice?
That is correct for restricted firearms because to legally transport them they have to have a secure locking device and be inside a locked case, so by unlocking the case at the side of the road it creates a illegal condition for transport
Your video's are very good, thanks for doing this.
Thank you!
@@RunkleOfTheBailey Yes,. Thank you for doing these videos...very informative
An OPP friend of mine told me that if you are wearing camo or they are hunting gear they then act under the Ontario hunting regulations and search your car anyway if they feel the need.
Could you go through the RCMP actions in the Hinton Alberta break and enter of many registered gun owner’s homes? Allegedly ammunition was also seized, which does not fall under the same legal definition as a firearm. As this was the homeowner’s “property” why weren’t charges of theft laid against the officers who illegally breached locked doors and destroyed property? Thank you.
Are police required to have a PAL? They carry a duty firearm but does that require them to have a PAL? Would a lack of the officer having a PAL put you in jeopardy of being charged by presenting/giving access to, your firearm in a roadside stop if a demand/request* made? * With the understanding to deny their "request".
Pardon my ignorance, but my legal knowledge is limited to what I remember from high school law class. What we were taught was that police had no authority to search your car unless they had probable cause. We were also taught that a refusal to a request to search your car was probable cause that you were hiding something, essentially giving them the right to search you whenever they wish. I hope this is incorrect.
I understand the attitude that we need to stand up for our rights and never accept unlawful intrusion into our privacy. I also understand that I do not have the means to sustain a legal battle with the government. It’s very easy (and somewhat self-serving) for a lawyer to recommend everyone engage in actions that will then necessitate the hiring of a lawyer.
Is there an organization in Canada similar to the USCCA which will provide legal support to members when they stand up to the police to defend their rights?