Judd Wilhites church out in Las Vegas/Henderson, NV simply places foam ear plugs on all the tables by the sanctuary entrances. Now that we are worshiping at a small, older Presbyterian Church in Oil City, PA the music is not the issue. The common denominator is that both churches love God, love Jesus, and has a compassionate love for each other. I have run sound boards for Church of Christ (Non-instrumental), Evangelical Free, Presbyterian, and many others. I have received so many stares it is almost funny. Your response is GOLDEN! Sound meters.
Helpful Tip: Advise people where the quieter areas are in the seating space when the sound cannot be reduced. This offers a reasonably thoughtful solution.
At least 2 or 3 times during a song, I do a sweep, focusing on each member making sure I'm hearing the right mix, and make physical and mental notes of moments during practice when someone may be a little overzealous about their part and decide that they need to be louder. Or the total opposite.
Often it's not the volume at all. The same person, that says about the loud music of the worship team, would never complain about a loud pipe organ. A sound, that someone dislikes, can be easily too loud.
A study was done, they found that 80-81 decibels was perfect. anything lower and members would stop participating, anything higher and some members would also stop participating in the praise and worship because it was uncomfortable. the standards set show that 85 decibels or louder is damaging to hearing. Yet most churches are running a harmful volume level. I attended one church where the volume was so loud that children were crying and pulling at their ears during praise and worship... and this church pretended to be trying to fix it yet a month after, the volume was still just as loud as it had ever been. no surprise that over half the seats in the congregation were empty and almost all of the members left in the congregation were related to the pastor.
Since the existence of column speakers there is no reason to do it very loud. Ok, in my old church the band is requested to have the same sound level like the grand piano, that could not be the solution. I would set the level lower but one thing, that makes it hard, the people sing along and need it, to hear the instruments and singer.
Part of the problem is modern worship, for the most uses tube Amps. Even a low wattage tube amp cranks out 100db easily. Tubes have to be run hot to get the natural breakup and sustain that is part of the modern sound. You turn down the volume you turn down the tone...it's just how guitar works
Thought I'd request an updated suggestion to the SPL-8810 Decibel Meter referenced, there are so many options but not many SPL-8810 Decibel Meters left out there.
In my church, we have our normal auditorium where we have our volume at 98 dba max. But we have a cafe that is reduced to about 80 dba max so if people request low volume, we have it available for use. Thanks for letting me share ideas.
Before I watch the video, some things I learned, when the level of vocals is too low, music appears too loud, when the band does it louder, I have not to do it down, when the sounds becomes moody, I turn it down. I avoid acoustic sound from stage by equipping the band with in ear monitoring, digital drums, guitar effects with speaker simulation. A bad sound, boosting some frequencies, seems to be louder, than a transparent sound. And one thing: I do the vocals set, that they sound best as possible and modify the sound of the instruments to match with the vocals, not otherwise.
I really enjoyed this, but you didn't mention my #1 mixing problem-uncontrolled sources on stage. I would like to make a better mix, but the guitar amps and the drums are so loud that I have to bring everything else up to be heard above the noise. To me, the most important part of the mix is the vocals, and everything else should play a supporting role. But uncontrolled guitars and drums dominate everything else and these musicians are not always receptive to suggestions to lower their volume.
Ah, that's true! I did not think of that since we don't really allow amps on stage at our church for that very reason. Thanks for the reminder. The soundman having complete control is very important for being able to mix well.
Amen from a, believe it or not, guitarist! I've been going direct to PA through modeling processors for the last 10 years. Everyone on our stage goes direct and FOHOW sound is fabulous. (That's Front of House of Worship. I just made that up, hehe.)
For drummers and guitar players it's a good lesson to play silent instruments instead. The drummer have to learn, that V Drums can also do a good job and the guitar player to live with a sound, that comes from speaker simulation.
@@robfriedrich2822 sims still dont do edge of breakup right. Great cleans, good distortion, breakup still sounds fake, even on a helix. Breakup is where worship tone lives.
Late to the the discussion. We went from acoustic drums to electronic. We also have gotten rid of the stage monitors and the "I can't hear myself" syndrome. Raising volume of monitors destroyed the FOH mix making things sound muddy. So we are now using In Ear Monitors. Everyone can dial in what they want to hear and how loud. Electric guitar and bass also go through the console. Nothing like having to balance the sound in our highly reverberant church and trying to keep the sound levels down where people can actually hear other people singing, but making the FOH speakers louder than the already too loud monitors. What I love about IEM is that I can turn off the sound to the FOH speakers and hear nothing while the worship is practicing.
Mark Jastrzebski because I am weird...haha. dBA is actually better to use but I used dBC for the longest time and the C weight numbers were more familiar to me. I would actually recommend A instead of C. Great point!
Hey! We’ve just moved into a sports hall for our church meetings.. Having major sound issues as every surface is bouncing the sound all over the place. Any low budget tips would be appreciated! Many thanks. Jon. www.i61.church
Judd Wilhites church out in Las Vegas/Henderson, NV simply places foam ear plugs on all the tables by the sanctuary entrances. Now that we are worshiping at a small, older Presbyterian Church in Oil City, PA the music is not the issue. The common denominator is that both churches love God, love Jesus, and has a compassionate love for each other. I have run sound boards for Church of Christ (Non-instrumental), Evangelical Free, Presbyterian, and many others. I have received so many stares it is almost funny. Your response is GOLDEN! Sound meters.
Haha right? Thanks for the comment
Helpful Tip: Advise people where the quieter areas are in the seating space when the sound cannot be reduced. This offers a reasonably thoughtful solution.
At least 2 or 3 times during a song, I do a sweep, focusing on each member making sure I'm hearing the right mix, and make physical and mental notes of moments during practice when someone may be a little overzealous about their part and decide that they need to be louder. Or the total opposite.
That's great! Going to different perspectives is very wise in checking the mix. A good practice to periodically do as you mix.
Amen Brother! Great tips
robinsax61 thanks bro!
Great info!! Probably a good idea for organists too :)
Often it's not the volume at all. The same person, that says about the loud music of the worship team, would never complain about a loud pipe organ. A sound, that someone dislikes, can be easily too loud.
A study was done, they found that 80-81 decibels was perfect. anything lower and members would stop participating, anything higher and some members would also stop participating in the praise and worship because it was uncomfortable. the standards set show that 85 decibels or louder is damaging to hearing. Yet most churches are running a harmful volume level. I attended one church where the volume was so loud that children were crying and pulling at their ears during praise and worship... and this church pretended to be trying to fix it yet a month after, the volume was still just as loud as it had ever been. no surprise that over half the seats in the congregation were empty and almost all of the members left in the congregation were related to the pastor.
Since the existence of column speakers there is no reason to do it very loud. Ok, in my old church the band is requested to have the same sound level like the grand piano, that could not be the solution.
I would set the level lower but one thing, that makes it hard, the people sing along and need it, to hear the instruments and singer.
Part of the problem is modern worship, for the most uses tube Amps. Even a low wattage tube amp cranks out 100db easily. Tubes have to be run hot to get the natural breakup and sustain that is part of the modern sound. You turn down the volume you turn down the tone...it's just how guitar works
2:25 . Man! Made me jumped in my chair in shock LOL :D
mee too
great information
Thought I'd request an updated suggestion to the SPL-8810 Decibel Meter referenced, there are so many options but not many SPL-8810 Decibel Meters left out there.
In my church, we have our normal auditorium where we have our volume at 98 dba max. But we have a cafe that is reduced to about 80 dba max so if people request low volume, we have it available for use. Thanks for letting me share ideas.
Before I watch the video, some things I learned, when the level of vocals is too low, music appears too loud, when the band does it louder, I have not to do it down, when the sounds becomes moody, I turn it down. I avoid acoustic sound from stage by equipping the band with in ear monitoring, digital drums, guitar effects with speaker simulation. A bad sound, boosting some frequencies, seems to be louder, than a transparent sound.
And one thing: I do the vocals set, that they sound best as possible and modify the sound of the instruments to match with the vocals, not otherwise.
Last time I used a Vitalizer type enhancer, that makes music better audible on lower levels. This can also help.
I really enjoyed this, but you didn't mention my #1 mixing problem-uncontrolled sources on stage. I would like to make a better mix, but the guitar amps and the drums are so loud that I have to bring everything else up to be heard above the noise. To me, the most important part of the mix is the vocals, and everything else should play a supporting role. But uncontrolled guitars and drums dominate everything else and these musicians are not always receptive to suggestions to lower their volume.
Ah, that's true! I did not think of that since we don't really allow amps on stage at our church for that very reason. Thanks for the reminder. The soundman having complete control is very important for being able to mix well.
Amen from a, believe it or not, guitarist! I've been going direct to PA through modeling processors for the last 10 years. Everyone on our stage goes direct and FOHOW sound is fabulous. (That's Front of House of Worship. I just made that up, hehe.)
For drummers and guitar players it's a good lesson to play silent instruments instead. The drummer have to learn, that V Drums can also do a good job and the guitar player to live with a sound, that comes from speaker simulation.
@@robfriedrich2822 sims still dont do edge of breakup right. Great cleans, good distortion, breakup still sounds fake, even on a helix. Breakup is where worship tone lives.
Late to the the discussion. We went from acoustic drums to electronic. We also have gotten rid of the stage monitors and the "I can't hear myself" syndrome. Raising volume of monitors destroyed the FOH mix making things sound muddy. So we are now using In Ear Monitors. Everyone can dial in what they want to hear and how loud. Electric guitar and bass also go through the console.
Nothing like having to balance the sound in our highly reverberant church and trying to keep the sound levels down where people can actually hear other people singing, but making the FOH speakers louder than the already too loud monitors.
What I love about IEM is that I can turn off the sound to the FOH speakers and hear nothing while the worship is practicing.
Really good tips. By the way your head shot was about 1%. Should be 5%.
Why do you measure with C weighting? Most venues use A weighting when monitoring
Mark Jastrzebski because I am weird...haha. dBA is actually better to use but I used dBC for the longest time and the C weight numbers were more familiar to me. I would actually recommend A instead of C. Great point!
Hey! We’ve just moved into a sports hall for our church meetings.. Having major sound issues as every surface is bouncing the sound all over the place. Any low budget tips would be appreciated!
Many thanks.
Jon. www.i61.church
There are sound women also lol jk