Hi, let me share a bit of experience, i have a very small business in brazil, I have personally ridden a ebike for 4 years, doing deliveries, riding on a a higher speed pace than normal ebikes, at around 30kph average with max speeds of 50kph, that allows me in a 2 million people city (not too big) to keep up with average traffic speeds and reaching time goals for deliveries for motorcycle deliveries, i have ridden 80 thousand kilometers on my first hub motor 500w (48v25a) controller, with only controller issues. After 3 years, then i upgraded to a 1000w motor, that actually failed the gears with about 8 months changed to dual hub motors after, 2x 500w motors, but the windings were changed to allow for a longer power curve to reach 70kph. after upgrading all my bike some times, i have decided to import about 30 kits, and started selling then, than i have started to rent some kits, and had 17 motors under circulation. My first motor, the one from 8 years ago, must have at least 100 thousand kilometers, and is still fine, yes i do renew the grease from time to time, but it is still runing, all the other 17 motors are also fine, that is on the hand of delivery bikes. With all those motors running and me fixing all the issues from all the bikes that came to my workshop, I`m under the impression that is not really correct, 10 to 15 000 miles? And just to be clear I'm a 100kg guy that pedals very little and the city is average gradient is 4%. So 17 500w geared motors, including my old one, running at least 20 days a month for 2 years for at least 50km, its 24 000 km per motor , with 0 issues. All of that not including the dozens of bikes that i have sold and never came back for maintenance. Maybe i`m just lucky to buy from a nice chinese brand of motors... Never bought a bafang, and its a very popular one. Sharing something else, i have fixed lots of gears from motors, most were 350w motors, some changed for metal gears. Never fixed a motor that i have imported and sold. Sorry for bad english btw, and i enjoy your videos!
Many thanks, Gregory for sharing your valuable experience. This really contradicts the information that I found online. If other viewers have a similar experience, I might have to take down this video and make an updated one. I'm noting your comment. BTW, your written English is as good as most English speakers.
The RadRover comes with a tiny torque arm, which looks to me like it might be not much help. I bought a torque arm from Amazon but it wouldn't fit. Howver, even though I added a more powerful controller, the increased acceleration hasn't cause any axle spin out problems so far, after 4000km.
A friend of mine had an older e-bike that the hub motor failed on. It apparently was stored outside and water got inside. He had me take a look at it and I was finally able to open it up and it was solid rust inside. I think it was a direct drive motor. But yes, bicycle drivetrains are vastly overloaded. One of my first jobs, I was working with some large equipment in a paper mill and some of it was chain driven. I found some chain drive design/sizing information and since I was a cyclist, I decided to look up the rating on a bike chain. That tables didn't go down to bike chain size, but I went with the smallest and used some estimates on the torque and speed for a bicycle. The data showed that the bike chain was severely undersized for the torque/tension applied to it in normal use. I was amazed at how long a bike chain does last given the use it's put to. No surprise that e-bike motors are also under high loads as well. I think it's mostly due to the size and weight limits trying to jam all that stuff into a hub or between the pedals.
I clicked out of curiosity about ebike motors. I stayed because it was an excellent UA-cam video. Well argued hypothesis, I can see YT getting behind this video and pushing it with suggestion and giving it LOTS of traction. Job well done.
I use a 48 Volt, 500 Watt, Direct Drive/Magnetic Hub motor. Guess what, no gears. Only one moving part. Since the motor has two large magnetic rings/donuts. One stationary, and one that moves when you apply power. Got the set up in 2019, and its still going strong with over 12,000 Miles on it. Sure, it does not have the acceleration as a geared hub motor, and it uses more power, but its a good solid motor. So it all depends on the type of motor.
I've got a very similar setup direct drive with vesc controller keeping it under 750 watts and the motor I chose is "rated" for 1500 and I have statorade in my motor and the lifespan is only limited by bearings, I don't doubt I'll surpass 50000 miles, plus direct drive is easy and turnkey Regen braking. Bottom line is all Chinese ebike motors are built like crap. You get what you pay for and the more mechanical complexity the faster the wear. The bike motors are made with cheap plastic junk chinesium and auto motors are built for way higher power output. It's all a series of intersecting equations. Each buyer/rider ultimately has a different mission profile and will operate them differently. Building custom for serious riders is the only choice. To date I have not seen a single ebike off the shelf that is a reliable transport option. They all have compromises and many are shit frames to begin with.
10,000 miles out of a motor could be a reasonable 5 years use for many owners. Since a replacement motor is $300. or so that is still very inexpensive transportation. The replacement plastic gear sets are $50. if you can do the replacement yourself. Direct Drive motors are very much still available but are installed on high output applications making them illegal for road use. Many motors with regen are often direct drive but within legal power limits.
My ebike motor is a bafang hub and I've had it since 2017. I've only had to change out the planetary gears a couple times during its lifespan, and since this part comes from China, I order about five of them so I am never without. The gear set for my motor costs about $45 each, and the gears are plastic, made to wear out sooner than the hub housing runner teeth. It's designed as a sacrificial part for the long-term motor usage, and this cost and tradeoff is something I'm willing to do.
The nylon gears in a hub motor are intended to wear and fail. As you mentioned, replacing them is easy. It is better that they wear rather than the geared housing of the hub (which would basically kill the motor). Labour cost is pretty irrelevant if you fix the bike yourself, which can be done with simple, inexpensive tools (compared to working on a car these days!). I haven't tried direct drive, but I'd like to. I understand they are heavier, and have a good top-end but don't accelerate like the geared motors do.
@oddlytimbotwillison6296 - The cost of the set of 3 plastic gears with the new bearings and cir-clips is less than $10 and since you don't have to disassemble the spokes and rim it only takes about an hour to replace them. Even if you have to purchase a simple bearing puller the cost of replacing the gears and giving them a light coat of white lithium grease is very low. Of course many bike shops will want to sell you a $600 +/- OEM motor rather than replace $10 worth of gears because either way their getting their minimum 1 hour of labor however with the motor they are getting their cut of profit from selling the $600 motor instead of a few dollars profit off selling the $10 gears. Some also want you to believe that the Sun will fall out of the sky and come crashing down on your house if you repair your own bike. In the worst case you can purchase a complete matching kit with a new hub motor already mounted on the rim, controller, throttle, display, wiring harness, PAS sensor, etc, etc for around $200 and have a 100% completely new system on the bike. Best!
A delivery rider friend has ridden 25,000+ miles on a Cube Kathmandu gen 3 performance CX, always in turbo and it's and still going strong. It needed a new battery at this mileage though.
Plastic gears in geared ebike motors are not only more silent and cheaper to make than metal ones, but they also are meant to fail first, without destroying other more expensive parts.
And clearly a major variable in this equation is how the bike is being ridden. I can nearly guarantee you if I look at a fat bike that the chain will have no wear on it whatsoever - the customer who bought that bike just wants an unregistered, cheap, electric motorcycle and the pedals are simply footrests that are there to satisfy a legality, while they blast around town on full throttle. E-bikes that are ridden as bicycles, IE pedaling with some supplemental electrical assist, will probably do much better.
It is, in fact, not actually about horsepower. The problem is closer related to forces converted to torque and the limits of the material used to transfer that torque. You have already pinpointed that usually the mode of failure is shearing of gear teeth. If the gears were larger and made of a more durable material, combined with more appropriate methods of lubrication, they'd potentially outlive the frame of your ebike. But, as always, it comes down to cost and revenue! If they fail you need new stuff, which means more purchases. Ever heard the term "planned obsolescence"? Yeah, despite all of the greenwashing, here we are! I spent my life working as an engineer, and I guarantee it is possible to design electric drives that would last decades and millions of kilometers.
I use a CYC Photon mid-drive with all-metal gears, it has done 4200 miles no problems so far, on-road and off-road. Best efficiency is around 700W but it will go more than twice that power for short bursts. I live in a flat part of the UK. The 9-speed chain works hard so I use immersive hot wax lubrication on a set of three chains and I have zero measurable chain wear so far.
I have had failure of the ebike controllers and I had determined that with setting it on the highest PAS setting the controller will fail early. It's best to set the controller setting on a medium assist level for longevity because of inadequate component cooling. Also having a spare replacement controller can come in handy as they are relatively inexpensive but a pain in the ass to reconnect all the connections. Carrying a replacement controller and tools with you can aid in not becoming stranded or having to pedal a heavy ebike a long distance without assist back home.
But if you have only one wheel would it be a fair suggestion, that, since load is not spread over 2 wheels, tires must be run out more quickly? Don't get me wrong, EUCs are a superior mode of transportation. But, it seems, your arguments are not very thought out...
I have e-bikes and EUC’s; the wear on the tyres of the latter, being both more robustly built and of thicker material does not wear as you suggest, not in the real world. But that may be different for you. I’d suggest you think about your argument and the clear deficiencies in it. Once you know a little more of what you’re talking about, the conversation might develop, but until then I’d get back to learning about your EUC.
Indeed. Consider the Apple, alongside the Orange; EUC- much greater tyre ground contact point compared to those of typical bicycle wheel tyres; tyre compound thickness and hardness, typical tyre pressures of each, tyre wall thicknesses and relative deformation under load. Ten years of Ebike ownership and usage, four and half with EUC. My points were indeed experienced based. Seasons greetings, and enjoy your journey!
This is a great and interesting topic, Robert. Siemens, Germany started electric motor building about 150 years ago. Some of them lasted extremely long. But the questions are: How big are the relations weight to move, speed, watts and how big and heavy the motor can be? Other question: Does a small motor for a moped that runs on gas last longer in comparison to an e-bike motor? Which e-bike motor brand lasts the longest? Experiences with Bafang middrives are good. And these motors can be repaired. Last Bosch longer? Are MAC hubmotors from E-Bikes, Vancouver, Canada the best?
The gears are like 7 bucks. The problem is nobody considers before buying. That being said you can get a ton of miles out of a gear motor if you don't start messing around with your amps. I'm not really good at the conversion but if you're getting 7000 miles out of a $200 motor you're doing good! I would say batteries are a bigger expense what is your battery I'm doing after 11,000 kilometers?
True. The batteries are likely to give trouble before the motor, and the batteries can be harder to work on! (Personal experience with battery, hub motor, and mid-drive.) Note: regular application of a suitable grease, e.g. Mobil-28 aircraft grease, to the gears seems to help with both durability *AND* noise…
Useless and flawed comparison : You're comparing ICE with electric , quality manufacturing with ultra-chesp. Also your weight to HP should account for rider hp because these are pedal with e-assist.
brushed motors would last 10x longer because you can easily replace brushes. Brushed motors can be rebuilt by a hs student in a hour with less than $100 of common parts. Common brushed motors like alternators outlive cars as long as you know how to replace the wear parts. We sell rebuild kits for brushed motors at maniac electric :)
i have a direct drive hub motor that has been through 3 or 4 bikes across 2 owners, it is used with almost 10x its rated power. zero maintenance in the past 10 years. The bikes and wheels have fallen apart around the motor, but the motor keeps going. the motor is used mainly in the winter where there is a lot of snow and cooling.
My bafang moror just exeeded 20.000 km and still running smooth. It also depends on the force it has to delever. max force = 250 W (legal) max speed = 25km/h (legal)
@RobertBeriault753 roughly about 10 years. Not that many miles though, I hardly ride it anymore. I'd guess about 7k miles. The batteries died multiple times, and replacements were too expensivem
Keep it dry, clean and lubricate nylon gears every year, don't use full throttle to pull away,I do this and have 20,000 on my 500watt hub drive , only thing I have done is change the bearings,like a car engine if you look after it then there is a good chance it will last.
I bought a Bafang Mid motor 5 or 6 years ago. It was the most powerful at that time and the most expensive but it still works great today. I use it at least 5 days a week in every weather have done almost 15000 km in these years and I had no problem with the actual motor. Of course I had to change parts on the bike like chain and gears but the motor never had anything.
I'm using the bafang BBS02B 750W for 5 years now. The only lesson important for everybody. Grease the bearings . Factory greasing is feeble. Good for 3000km. After that, you get squeeks. And soon after that, the motor electronics will overload due friction and die.
I suspect the motor/gearbox weight to power ratio, would be a more reliable indicator of design stress. Also, the price of an overhaul or total replacement is quite different.
When you initially referred to size of motor I thought you were talking about physical size rather than power rating. Physical size does matter because it effect ability to dissipate heat (if your motor was physically larger could it have reduced the likelihood of the gears melting?). The other issue not mentioned is the far more comprehensive regular services a car gets compared to an eBike motor. If there had been problems with a belt in the car motor part way through the expected lifespan of the car motor that could have been fixed without replacing the entire engine; yet when your eBike motor gears got worn out it was seen as end of life for that motor.
I should have mentioned that a motor with a heavy mass has more ability to absorb and dissipate heat, which should have a protecting effect for the susceptible components like gears and electrical parts. For can engines, it's so easy to change the oil.
I've seen metal clad plastic gears...not sure if they help though. The comparison with cars works out ok, but a comparison with ebikes with different power motors probably won't support that argument. Here in Australia, 250W (1/3hp) is the maximum legal power, so by your reckoning these should last 1/3 of the equivalent 1 hp bikes from the US. I'd argue that less power with the same drive system should make Australian ebike motors last longer.
I think its mostly bearings and sealings; at least as far as direct drive is concerned. You can spend a lot on those to get something good; but its not something your average customer will pay any attention to when making their buying decision, so you often end up with crap. But even with good bearings; you are still having your motor sit one bearing away from the mud splashing about. As long as you keep the seals and bearings intact (and your setup is temperature limited), a direct drive ebike motor can run essentially forever though.
Thanks. I guess you just need to factor in replacing the plastic gears at a set mileage, before they go. And really the shop / manufacturer should tell you this.
The ebikes that I have owned have waterproof connections and have never had a problem in the rain, even when they sat all night in a raging storm. But if you never expose your bike to water, you're sure not to have moisture issues. As for riding easy, that will allow the motor to live a longer, happy life. Thanks for your comment.
A motor hasn't really failed if you simply need to replace a few cheap and readily available parts. These gears can often cost just a few dollars for a full set.
I just sold my 2005 Golf TDI with 490,000 km and still running. I figure that it will easily get to 600,000 km. The guy that bought it was a mechanic and rust was not an issue. He bought it because of the fuel efficiency, I was still getting 5l/100km.
My ebike has hybrid metal + plastic gears in the hub. Maybe a little more noisy, but certainly not "loud". Allegedly they should last longer than straight nylon gears.
Chances are you will not have to replace the entire motor, but if you have the geared version, you will have to replace the gears which isn't that hard to do.
Ok, the e-bike motor works 12 x harder vs. a car engine if the rider does not help add torque. But the rider also adds a lot of torque in pedal assist mode. I had a hub motor that had no gears-- it was a Bionx 350 watt motor. It ran perfectly for 8800 miles, and it could keep going, but the battery wore out and Bionx went bankrupt. So the cost of a rebuilt battery was bigger than a new e-bike with a geared motor. I think very few manufacturers build direct drive motors because they are proportionally much heavier than equally powerful geared motors. On the other hand, they are virtually silent because there are no gears. I personally prefer the direct drive bike motors because they have the ability to do regenerative braking, i.e. using the spinning magnets as a generator to recharge the battery whenever you want to slow down instead of using the rim brakes or disc brakes. So then the brake parts will also last longer. The only complaint I had about the Bionx direct drive motor was that it made a 30 lb. bike 20 lbs heavier because the battery was around 10 lbs, and so was the hub motor wheel. Using plastic for gears in a hub motor seems like a terrible idea-- like they want the motors to fail after 10,000 or 15,000 miles so that you have to buy another one.
10-15k is a lot. I ride my ebike 2k miles per year. By the time it wears out I would have moved on to a new updated ebike. The gears of a hub motor are cheap and easy to replace. It's also cheap and easy to replace the entire wheel/motor assembly. What's not cheap is replacing the battery. You should have done an analysis on that instead.
When moving to an updated bike you have to sell your old one. You wouldn't get anything for it if it doesn't work. But thank you for the idea of doing a video on the life of batteries.
@@RobertBeriault753 By the time I moved on I would've gotten my money's worth out of it. For me, who rides an ebike 2k miles a year, it really isn't all that thrifty compared to driving my car. I can buy a lot of gas for what my ebike cost me. But, it's a lot more fun to ride the ebike.
@@RobertBeriault753 I just watched that vid. I paid about 1400usd, total, for my ebike. That would have bought a lot of gas for my tiny, paid for, 19 year old car with low miles and liability only insurance. My only ebike expenses are tires and brake pads which I buy online. I've been a cyclist for 30+ years and can fix anything on a bike. I bought my ebike direct to consumer. It has the bulletproof, ubiquitous Bafang 750w hub motor and Samsung cell 20ah battery. I've had zero problems in 3300 miles.
You forgot to add that bikes usually travel at 1/4th of the speed. (legal assisted speed in the NL or UK is 25km/h) Most ebike batteries or motors don't have proper cooling for sustained efforts. (shitty EV's have the same issue) Yes, plz compare Ebikes to EV's as well. PS: regulations in the Netherlands are crazy atm, in fact it's actually illegal to have a motor that can take more than 250 watts even when it's restricted to 25km/h when you read that shite. Also somehow they changed the 25km/h moped regulations to that you need a helmet, so everybody..incl 8 year olds are now using ebikes that get the same speed without training, insurance or helmet and it's become a big issue because of the cheap chinese fatbikes and politicians not knowing shit about bikes. Especially problematic when derestricted, and not having proper brakes. Speed pedelecs are assisted up to 45km/h but need to ride on car roads where the speed limit is 50. So in practise they just zoom past you on the bike lane cause they don't wanna ride on the car roads.
Robert... I have the bafang BBSHD 1000w mid-drive on my recumbent trike... Before installing it i opened up the plate under the Sprocket.. that revealed the Reduction Gear... At the factory they put cheap grease.. So I packed "Black" "Moly grease with lithium 2 ".. The moly grease must be the black grease. and it must be the lithium 2.. this protects the plastic gears in the motor.. This will prolong the motor life.. by making the motor run more cool,smoother and faster.. A faster spinning motor with lower torque will keep it cool and preserve the motor.. I now have over 14k miles on my trike.. and every year, i have more of the black Moly grease with lithium packed in the gears.. My motor runs quiet and smooth. Lower gear, higher power is the way to go.. Lugging down a motor will cause the controller to burn out or cause the motor to fail. I always run lower gear higher power.. and that also increases my range.. Lugged down over burdened motors suck up Watts and lower range while causing damage to an electric motor.. PEACE
I only use rear hub direct drive motors, no moving parts and bullet proof. you can't kill them. I built a friends kid an Electric mini bike using and BMX frame even with the abuse kids give it the motor is still working fine. I have many bike out there over 5 years old and still running . My guess is you need to stop using those gear drive kits and go direct drive instead,
If we do the math, a 1,200 pound horse has to haul around 1200 lbs of weight on only one horsepower. That's about five times more weight per horsepower than an ebike has to pull around. And the rider never has to worry about lubricating the gears!😂
cannot hear..but why did i just rebuild wheel for 6th time, not once was i buying new as wires from china were/are faulty..motor itself is 3 hall sensors and 3 phase wires, oldest moter i use is 1980's "mountain tour", then few from 2014 ish..1000's of miles.. issue you face is planetary gears, vinyl.. and wires that dont take amps ebikes put out..my 250w motor will see 890wats...yes avg is 500 watts but peaks..so running what controler..facts clear old school motor..or plastic gears..my new motor lasted short life as planetary gears were chewed. lets compare gas to batteries wtf
@@RobertBeriault753 ive torn many old ones down rebuilt..big old ones,no gears best as regens a option,(grim,bc, can. ebikes has info on regen) planetary gears great but 1 year life span..old system got issues but easy to address, anti tear out,temp sensor added, i am 70 % disabled 57 retired as injured at work 2009..use 3 systems now but tell me required and system to match, mid drive nice off road mountain bike, front wheel great no snow/mud around the town, rear is all season,dual is weight.. of batteries..motors no pedal point. good secret many miss is a 36volt battery no bms as hobby charger is possible,sets cells perfect..called discharger/charger lvl cells and can set to 90% making cell life time 4 times.often split battery..24volts each..hobby chargers fail after 36 volts still saddly.
How can you compare a $5000 gas car engine to a $100 electric ebike motor ?? ... Then there is rider weight , terrain , duration , distance , bike type and speed ! .... Come on old man , wize up ..... 😀
@ from experience a modified onyx CTY2/RCR. From outside looking in: Specialized Haul, Spark bandit, Ristretto, e-cells, Beachman, to name a few e-bikes. I would include the Revv1, but I’ve seen their geared motor deteriorated due to the use of nylon gears. Spark uses metal reinforced nylon gears. The only ones that will last/withstand will be e-bikes, e-mopeds, emoto’s that use DOT grade material. I have firsthand experience with Ösa & CE02, about 2,000 miles on each, but those aren’t e-bikes. However, they’re thoroughly engineered, utilitarian & smart PEVs to an extent. IMHO, the Onyx are unique & are the pioneers for what has become this space. Steel frame, hydraulic front brake, 3k watts, 72 & 60v, etc…far from perfect, but great base to build on. Everything these days is aluminum, emtb, 48-52v…it’s inadequate for anything other than leisure. Don’t get me wrong. The Ösa is only 50v, but it’s engineered & built right. Not perfect, but highly capable. The CE02 is dual 48v, but it’s not like any 48v. Of the mix, the Onyx is the dumbest, but smoothest, if that makes any sense? It’s not as agile as the CE02 or as long-range as the Ösa, but it holds its own in its own special way. Mind you, significant upgrades are required to get it dialed in, but it’s more than worth the investment. Now, this is all subjective & based on my personal likes/preferences & will differ from many others. YVMV. GL.
I just got 2 RAEV BulletX ebikes, pretty sure they are direct drive. You have given me another factor to consider, and in consideration, I spent my money wisely. Thank you!
Hi Robert, don't want to be patronising but chatGPT (and all large language models) are not sources of information. They literally just predict what word is likely to follow another. "Asking" chatgpt a question is the literal equivalent of asking an uniformed person to invent a convincing sounding answer to a question. Because it's "guess" regarding the likely answer is a regurgitation of what's been written on the internet, questions that have been asked many times are simulated realistically. IF they have been almost always answered correctly online, eg 1+1= ?, then the "answer" might be factually correct. Otherwise, it's a guess at what sounds convincing. "AI" is insidious.
I think you're absolutely right! I disregarded other inquiries I made because they didn't seem to make sense. For example, I asked what is the average lifespan of an ebike motor and it said 3,000 to 10,000 miles without even mentioning the differences between geared vs. direct drive or hub vs. mid drive.
@@RobertBeriault753 6000 miles across both unicycles. 3000 miles across one scooter. when did something ever go wrong? no one has said the motor unless there was a factory defect.
I had almost the same belief as you, that ebikes are for lazy people. Nowadays I think that ebikes are a "blessing" for so many, like delivery people, the elderly, people who commute to work, etc.
I thought like that too and was against e-bikes. Then I tried one for commuting to work. Saved me time, didn’t have to change my clothes and shower at the office, and I still got exercise and enjoyed my daily commute!
@@saidsayah174 I commute 150 miles a week with one gear, 20 mph no sweating no clothes changing. E bike is for old people and lazy people and they are all junk.
@Bozo - send us a photo of your new e-bike when you reach an age where your legs are too weak to pedal a normal bike and or you have too many injuries . Of course that scenario is different for each person , but it WILL happen , guaranteed .
Hi, let me share a bit of experience, i have a very small business in brazil, I have personally ridden a ebike for 4 years, doing deliveries, riding on a a higher speed pace than normal ebikes, at around 30kph average with max speeds of 50kph, that allows me in a 2 million people city (not too big) to keep up with average traffic speeds and reaching time goals for deliveries for motorcycle deliveries, i have ridden 80 thousand kilometers on my first hub motor 500w (48v25a) controller, with only controller issues. After 3 years, then i upgraded to a 1000w motor, that actually failed the gears with about 8 months changed to dual hub motors after, 2x 500w motors, but the windings were changed to allow for a longer power curve to reach 70kph. after upgrading all my bike some times, i have decided to import about 30 kits, and started selling then, than i have started to rent some kits, and had 17 motors under circulation.
My first motor, the one from 8 years ago, must have at least 100 thousand kilometers, and is still fine, yes i do renew the grease from time to time, but it is still runing, all the other 17 motors are also fine, that is on the hand of delivery bikes. With all those motors running and me fixing all the issues from all the bikes that came to my workshop, I`m under the impression that is not really correct, 10 to 15 000 miles? And just to be clear I'm a 100kg guy that pedals very little and the city is average gradient is 4%.
So 17 500w geared motors, including my old one, running at least 20 days a month for 2 years for at least 50km, its 24 000 km per motor , with 0 issues. All of that not including the dozens of bikes that i have sold and never came back for maintenance.
Maybe i`m just lucky to buy from a nice chinese brand of motors... Never bought a bafang, and its a very popular one.
Sharing something else, i have fixed lots of gears from motors, most were 350w motors, some changed for metal gears. Never fixed a motor that i have imported and sold.
Sorry for bad english btw, and i enjoy your videos!
Many thanks, Gregory for sharing your valuable experience. This really contradicts the information that I found online. If other viewers have a similar experience, I might have to take down this video and make an updated one. I'm noting your comment. BTW, your written English is as good as most English speakers.
Do you fit torque arms to your electric bikes?
The RadRover comes with a tiny torque arm, which looks to me like it might be not much help. I bought a torque arm from Amazon but it wouldn't fit. Howver, even though I added a more powerful controller, the increased acceleration hasn't cause any axle spin out problems so far, after 4000km.
A friend of mine had an older e-bike that the hub motor failed on. It apparently was stored outside and water got inside. He had me take a look at it and I was finally able to open it up and it was solid rust inside. I think it was a direct drive motor.
But yes, bicycle drivetrains are vastly overloaded. One of my first jobs, I was working with some large equipment in a paper mill and some of it was chain driven. I found some chain drive design/sizing information and since I was a cyclist, I decided to look up the rating on a bike chain. That tables didn't go down to bike chain size, but I went with the smallest and used some estimates on the torque and speed for a bicycle. The data showed that the bike chain was severely undersized for the torque/tension applied to it in normal use. I was amazed at how long a bike chain does last given the use it's put to. No surprise that e-bike motors are also under high loads as well. I think it's mostly due to the size and weight limits trying to jam all that stuff into a hub or between the pedals.
Good point. Thanks for sharing.
I clicked out of curiosity about ebike motors. I stayed because it was an excellent UA-cam video. Well argued hypothesis, I can see YT getting behind this video and pushing it with suggestion and giving it LOTS of traction. Job well done.
Thank you kindly
I use a 48 Volt, 500 Watt, Direct Drive/Magnetic Hub motor. Guess what, no gears. Only one moving part. Since the motor has two large magnetic rings/donuts. One stationary, and one that moves when you apply power. Got the set up in 2019, and its still going strong with over 12,000 Miles on it. Sure, it does not have the acceleration as a geared hub motor, and it uses more power, but its a good solid motor. So it all depends on the type of motor.
Thanks for you input. The slight disadvantages you mention will be forgiven when you get many more years of trouble-free service.
I have a Nine Continent motor front hub from 2011 that has over 70,000 kilometers. It is a stator Rotar direct drive motor.
I've got a very similar setup direct drive with vesc controller keeping it under 750 watts and the motor I chose is "rated" for 1500 and I have statorade in my motor and the lifespan is only limited by bearings, I don't doubt I'll surpass 50000 miles, plus direct drive is easy and turnkey Regen braking. Bottom line is all Chinese ebike motors are built like crap. You get what you pay for and the more mechanical complexity the faster the wear. The bike motors are made with cheap plastic junk chinesium and auto motors are built for way higher power output. It's all a series of intersecting equations. Each buyer/rider ultimately has a different mission profile and will operate them differently. Building custom for serious riders is the only choice. To date I have not seen a single ebike off the shelf that is a reliable transport option. They all have compromises and many are shit frames to begin with.
Good points. Thanks
10,000 miles out of a motor could be a reasonable 5 years use for many owners. Since a replacement motor is $300. or so that is still very inexpensive transportation. The replacement plastic gear sets are $50. if you can do the replacement yourself. Direct Drive motors are very much still available but are installed on high output applications making them illegal for road use. Many motors with regen are often direct drive but within legal power limits.
Thanks for your perspective
My ebike motor is a bafang hub and I've had it since 2017. I've only had to change out the planetary gears a couple times during its lifespan, and since this part comes from China, I order about five of them so I am never without. The gear set for my motor costs about $45 each, and the gears are plastic, made to wear out sooner than the hub housing runner teeth. It's designed as a sacrificial part for the long-term motor usage, and this cost and tradeoff is something I'm willing to do.
That's a good approach!
Seems like delamination and lamination stack distortion in Bafang bbshd ipm rotors is another issue. Received defective rotors two times.
The nylon gears in a hub motor are intended to wear and fail. As you mentioned, replacing them is easy. It is better that they wear rather than the geared housing of the hub (which would basically kill the motor). Labour cost is pretty irrelevant if you fix the bike yourself, which can be done with simple, inexpensive tools (compared to working on a car these days!). I haven't tried direct drive, but I'd like to. I understand they are heavier, and have a good top-end but don't accelerate like the geared motors do.
I think you're right on all those points.
@oddlytimbotwillison6296 - The cost of the set of 3 plastic gears with the new bearings and cir-clips is less than $10 and since you don't have to disassemble the spokes and rim it only takes about an hour to replace them. Even if you have to purchase a simple bearing puller the cost of replacing the gears and giving them a light coat of white lithium grease is very low. Of course many bike shops will want to sell you a $600 +/- OEM motor rather than replace $10 worth of gears because either way their getting their minimum 1 hour of labor however with the motor they are getting their cut of profit from selling the $600 motor instead of a few dollars profit off selling the $10 gears. Some also want you to believe that the Sun will fall out of the sky and come crashing down on your house if you repair your own bike.
In the worst case you can purchase a complete matching kit with a new hub motor already mounted on the rim, controller, throttle, display, wiring harness, PAS sensor, etc, etc for around $200 and have a 100% completely new system on the bike.
Best!
A delivery rider friend has ridden 25,000+ miles on a Cube Kathmandu gen 3 performance CX, always in turbo and it's and still going strong. It needed a new battery at this mileage though.
Good to know.
I also do deliveries on bike and have ridden almost 35.000 km on my Bosch Gen4 CX. Luckily I have 2 batteries and they still hold pretty well.
If only Bosch would provide a throttle...sigh!
@@RobertBeriault753 get an electric motorbike instead?
@@RobertBeriault753 That would not be considered an ebike anymore, but a moped, and for that you need a drivers license (at least in Romania)
Plastic gears in geared ebike motors are not only more silent and cheaper to make than metal ones, but they also are meant to fail first, without destroying other more expensive parts.
Not a bad point.
I'm going to phone bikes shops to ask how much they charge to either lubricate or change planetary gears.
@@RobertBeriault753 That would be the most economical thing to do (at least in my country, Romania)
And clearly a major variable in this equation is how the bike is being ridden.
I can nearly guarantee you if I look at a fat bike that the chain will have no wear on it whatsoever - the customer who bought that bike just wants an unregistered, cheap, electric motorcycle and the pedals are simply footrests that are there to satisfy a legality, while they blast around town on full throttle.
E-bikes that are ridden as bicycles, IE pedaling with some supplemental electrical assist, will probably do much better.
Good point.
It is, in fact, not actually about horsepower. The problem is closer related to forces converted to torque and the limits of the material used to transfer that torque.
You have already pinpointed that usually the mode of failure is shearing of gear teeth.
If the gears were larger and made of a more durable material, combined with more appropriate methods of lubrication, they'd potentially outlive the frame of your ebike.
But, as always, it comes down to cost and revenue! If they fail you need new stuff, which means more purchases.
Ever heard the term "planned obsolescence"?
Yeah, despite all of the greenwashing, here we are!
I spent my life working as an engineer, and I guarantee it is possible to design electric drives that would last decades and millions of kilometers.
That's a troubling revelation.
I suppose you could even just limit the peak power output, maybe based off motor wire temperatures
I use a CYC Photon mid-drive with all-metal gears, it has done 4200 miles no problems so far, on-road and off-road. Best efficiency is around 700W but it will go more than twice that power for short bursts. I live in a flat part of the UK. The 9-speed chain works hard so I use immersive hot wax lubrication on a set of three chains and I have zero measurable chain wear so far.
My original Cyclone 3kw motor from 8 years ago is still running perfectly. I keep thinking about upgrading, but there really isn't much point.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Photon and hot wax lube.
I have had failure of the ebike controllers and I had determined that with setting it on the highest PAS setting the controller will fail early. It's best to set the controller setting on a medium assist level for longevity because of inadequate component cooling. Also having a spare replacement controller can come in handy as they are relatively inexpensive but a pain in the ass to reconnect all the connections. Carrying a replacement controller and tools with you can aid in not becoming stranded or having to pedal a heavy ebike a long distance without assist back home.
Good points, thanks for sharing. It would be interesting to have an idea of the average longevity of ebike controllers.
Perfect advocacy for an electric unicycle: 50% fewer tyres and tubes, no brakes to service, simplicity and efficiency exemplified.
Or no wheels at all. Just walk!
But if you have only one wheel would it be a fair suggestion, that, since load is not spread over 2 wheels, tires must be run out more quickly? Don't get me wrong, EUCs are a superior mode of transportation. But, it seems, your arguments are not very thought out...
I have e-bikes and EUC’s; the wear on the tyres of the latter, being both more robustly built and of thicker material does not wear as you suggest, not in the real world. But that may be different for you. I’d suggest you think about your argument and the clear deficiencies in it. Once you know a little more of what you’re talking about, the conversation might develop, but until then I’d get back to learning about your EUC.
@@freeforester1717 So, if your point is backed up by practice or better argument, that's a good point. I don't have e-bikes to compare 🤷♂️
Indeed.
Consider the Apple, alongside the Orange;
EUC- much greater tyre ground contact point compared to those of typical bicycle wheel tyres; tyre compound thickness and hardness, typical tyre pressures of each, tyre wall thicknesses and relative deformation under load. Ten years of Ebike ownership and usage, four and half with EUC. My points were indeed experienced based.
Seasons greetings, and enjoy your journey!
I really like how you approach the question, methodical. It is always hard to get reliable info on part failures, and this is really interesting
I appreciate that!
The only market I know of that might give a plastic to metal gear comparison is radio controlled cars, where some have a metal gear upgrade available.
It's probably that there's not much value in that kind of data.
This is a great and interesting topic, Robert. Siemens, Germany started electric motor building about 150 years ago. Some of them lasted extremely long. But the questions are: How big are the relations weight to move, speed, watts and how big and heavy the motor can be?
Other question: Does a small motor for a moped that runs on gas last longer in comparison to an e-bike motor?
Which e-bike motor brand lasts the longest? Experiences with Bafang middrives are good. And these motors can be repaired. Last Bosch longer? Are MAC hubmotors from E-Bikes, Vancouver, Canada the best?
All good questions. It would take a well-funded research team to gather data to arrive at answers.
The gears are like 7 bucks. The problem is nobody considers before buying. That being said you can get a ton of miles out of a gear motor if you don't start messing around with your amps. I'm not really good at the conversion but if you're getting 7000 miles out of a $200 motor you're doing good! I would say batteries are a bigger expense what is your battery I'm doing after 11,000 kilometers?
I don't find anything wrong with what you say.
True. The batteries are likely to give trouble before the motor, and the batteries can be harder to work on! (Personal experience with battery, hub motor, and mid-drive.)
Note: regular application of a suitable grease, e.g. Mobil-28 aircraft grease, to the gears seems to help with both durability *AND* noise…
Useless and flawed comparison :
You're comparing ICE with electric , quality manufacturing with ultra-chesp. Also your weight to HP should account for rider hp because these are pedal with e-assist.
Thank you for your well-founded criticisms. But is it really useless if it spawns discussion of ideas?
brushed motors would last 10x longer because you can easily replace brushes. Brushed motors can be rebuilt by a hs student in a hour with less than $100 of common parts. Common brushed motors like alternators outlive cars as long as you know how to replace the wear parts. We sell rebuild kits for brushed motors at maniac electric :)
Do you know of any factory ebikes that have brushed motors?
@@RobertBeriault753 I do not, but i have seen youtubers build bikes with brushed motors, even scrap alternators
How is the brushed or non-brushed motor going to affect the longevity of the gears, which have nothing to do with the type of motor?
@@47f0 cheap plastic gears is a separate problem (which can also easily be rectified i.e. hardened metal gears)
i have a direct drive hub motor that has been through 3 or 4 bikes across 2 owners, it is used with almost 10x its rated power. zero maintenance in the past 10 years. The bikes and wheels have fallen apart around the motor, but the motor keeps going. the motor is used mainly in the winter where there is a lot of snow and cooling.
Wow! Thanks for your input.
My bafang moror just exeeded 20.000 km and still running smooth. It also depends on the force it has to delever. max force = 250 W (legal) max speed = 25km/h (legal)
Makes sense. Thanks for the info about your Bafang motor.
Do they? I got a 1500w motor and it seems to work fine for several years now.
How many years and how many miles?
@RobertBeriault753 roughly about 10 years. Not that many miles though, I hardly ride it anymore. I'd guess about 7k miles. The batteries died multiple times, and replacements were too expensivem
Batteries are ebike killers: ua-cam.com/video/U-BI5fkwjFo/v-deo.html
Keep it dry, clean and lubricate nylon gears every year, don't use full throttle to pull away,I do this and have 20,000 on my 500watt hub drive , only thing I have done is change the bearings,like a car engine if you look after it then there is a good chance it will last.
Do you do the work yourself. I just wonder how much it would cost in labour to thave the nylon gears lubricated.
48v hub motor has 20k miles + and feels brand new. My non geared hub motor wheels are on their second bike and 3rd set of wheels
I'm not sure the data points to a "short lifespan."
That’s why I prefer planetary gears of metal instead. the longevity of my motor has paid off more as I have 8000 miles on my e-bike now and counting 😊
I’m glad to hear that your e-bike is holding up well.
I have 7000 miles on my 36 volt fat tire bike, I know it will go 7000 more with no trouble.
Imagine having to replace your legs just as often as E-bikes, the human body is incredible :)
There's no comparison. A single cell of the human body is millions of times more complex than an ebike.
I bought a Bafang Mid motor 5 or 6 years ago. It was the most powerful at that time and the most expensive but it still works great today. I use it at least 5 days a week in every weather have done almost 15000 km in these years and I had no problem with the actual motor. Of course I had to change parts on the bike like chain and gears but the motor never had anything.
I'm using the bafang BBS02B 750W for 5 years now. The only lesson important for everybody. Grease the bearings . Factory greasing is feeble. Good for 3000km. After that, you get squeeks. And soon after that, the motor electronics will overload due friction and die.
Thanks for sharing
I suspect the motor/gearbox weight to power ratio, would be a more reliable indicator of design stress. Also, the price of an overhaul or total replacement is quite different.
Thanks for this idea. It's a relationship that should be investigated.
I've got almost 7k on my bafang which lives outside. Other than some moisture intrusion during some temperature swings it's been flawless.
I wish your Bafang a long life!
This is exactly why i bought a direct drive ebike
Great choice!
Bonne job. La Petite-Nation dit Bonjour!
When you initially referred to size of motor I thought you were talking about physical size rather than power rating. Physical size does matter because it effect ability to dissipate heat (if your motor was physically larger could it have reduced the likelihood of the gears melting?).
The other issue not mentioned is the far more comprehensive regular services a car gets compared to an eBike motor. If there had been problems with a belt in the car motor part way through the expected lifespan of the car motor that could have been fixed without replacing the entire engine; yet when your eBike motor gears got worn out it was seen as end of life for that motor.
I should have mentioned that a motor with a heavy mass has more ability to absorb and dissipate heat, which should have a protecting effect for the susceptible components like gears and electrical parts.
For can engines, it's so easy to change the oil.
I've seen metal clad plastic gears...not sure if they help though.
The comparison with cars works out ok, but a comparison with ebikes with different power motors probably won't support that argument. Here in Australia, 250W (1/3hp) is the maximum legal power, so by your reckoning these should last 1/3 of the equivalent 1 hp bikes from the US. I'd argue that less power with the same drive system should make Australian ebike motors last longer.
Excellent point! Because often it's the very same motor that's configured to operate differently.
I think its mostly bearings and sealings; at least as far as direct drive is concerned. You can spend a lot on those to get something good; but its not something your average customer will pay any attention to when making their buying decision, so you often end up with crap. But even with good bearings; you are still having your motor sit one bearing away from the mud splashing about. As long as you keep the seals and bearings intact (and your setup is temperature limited), a direct drive ebike motor can run essentially forever though.
Thanks for sharing your experience
Thanks.
I guess you just need to factor in replacing the plastic gears at a set mileage, before they go. And really the shop / manufacturer should tell you this.
Right!
Where are they made?
Mostly China
Dont get your e bike wet, race up steep hills or jump them, shocking the hub gears. Thats my plan
The ebikes that I have owned have waterproof connections and have never had a problem in the rain, even when they sat all night in a raging storm. But if you never expose your bike to water, you're sure not to have moisture issues. As for riding easy, that will allow the motor to live a longer, happy life. Thanks for your comment.
Good information to have. Thank you!
I'm glad you found it useful!
A motor hasn't really failed if you simply need to replace a few cheap and readily available parts. These gears can often cost just a few dollars for a full set.
True. A motor shouldn't be scrapped just because labour cost is too expensive.
I just sold my 2005 Golf TDI with 490,000 km and still running. I figure that it will easily get to 600,000 km. The guy that bought it was a mechanic and rust was not an issue. He bought it because of the fuel efficiency, I was still getting 5l/100km.
I think cars would last longer if people had them serviced regularly and had them repaired even if they're past 10 years.
@@RobertBeriault753 Besides the TDI I had a 1985 carbureted Honda Prelude and had it for 18 years and 580,000 km. The rust took her. .
Damn rust!
My ebike has hybrid metal + plastic gears in the hub. Maybe a little more noisy, but certainly not "loud".
Allegedly they should last longer than straight nylon gears.
I wish your ebike and you a long life!
@RobertBeriault753 Thank you Robert.
Wow, this is scary news, If I were to start using an e-bike I will need a replacement motor every two years.
If you ride that much, you'd need a direct drive motor.
Chances are you will not have to replace the entire motor, but if you have the geared version, you will have to replace the gears which isn't that hard to do.
@@justinw1765 Thank you for the info.
The premise of your "working harder" analysis is nonsensical.
Ok, the e-bike motor works 12 x harder vs. a car engine if the rider does not help add torque. But the rider also adds a lot of torque in pedal assist mode.
I had a hub motor that had no gears-- it was a Bionx 350 watt motor. It ran perfectly for 8800 miles, and it could keep going, but the battery wore out and Bionx went bankrupt. So the cost of a rebuilt battery was bigger than a new e-bike with a geared motor.
I think very few manufacturers build direct drive motors because they are proportionally much heavier than equally powerful geared motors. On the other hand, they are virtually silent because there are no gears. I personally prefer the direct drive bike motors because they have the ability to do regenerative braking, i.e. using the spinning magnets as a generator to recharge the battery whenever you want to slow down instead of using the rim brakes or disc brakes. So then the brake parts will also last longer.
The only complaint I had about the Bionx direct drive motor was that it made a 30 lb. bike 20 lbs heavier because the battery was around 10 lbs, and so was the hub motor wheel.
Using plastic for gears in a hub motor seems like a terrible idea-- like they want the motors to fail after 10,000 or 15,000 miles so that you have to buy another one.
My friends do rebuild those motors with KT controllers, and then you can use any battery.
Those are great points.
the audio is terribly "muffled" here. sorry. had to stop, sadly 😞
That's unfortunate. Thanks for trying.
10-15k is a lot. I ride my ebike 2k miles per year. By the time it wears out I would have moved on to a new updated ebike. The gears of a hub motor are cheap and easy to replace. It's also cheap and easy to replace the entire wheel/motor assembly. What's not cheap is replacing the battery. You should have done an analysis on that instead.
10-15k isn't a lot if you are commuting, it's basically 3 yrs commuting for me. So that's pretty poor value.
When moving to an updated bike you have to sell your old one. You wouldn't get anything for it if it doesn't work. But thank you for the idea of doing a video on the life of batteries.
@@RobertBeriault753 By the time I moved on I would've gotten my money's worth out of it. For me, who rides an ebike 2k miles a year, it really isn't all that thrifty compared to driving my car. I can buy a lot of gas for what my ebike cost me. But, it's a lot more fun to ride the ebike.
I kinda agree with you on that. Have you see this video?
ua-cam.com/video/U-BI5fkwjFo/v-deo.html
@@RobertBeriault753 I just watched that vid. I paid about 1400usd, total, for my ebike. That would have bought a lot of gas for my tiny, paid for, 19 year old car with low miles and liability only insurance. My only ebike expenses are tires and brake pads which I buy online. I've been a cyclist for 30+ years and can fix anything on a bike. I bought my ebike direct to consumer. It has the bulletproof, ubiquitous Bafang 750w hub motor and Samsung cell 20ah battery. I've had zero problems in 3300 miles.
You are comparing Pumpkin with Strawberries.
Thanks for joining the discussion
You forgot to add that bikes usually travel at 1/4th of the speed. (legal assisted speed in the NL or UK is 25km/h)
Most ebike batteries or motors don't have proper cooling for sustained efforts. (shitty EV's have the same issue)
Yes, plz compare Ebikes to EV's as well.
PS: regulations in the Netherlands are crazy atm, in fact it's actually illegal to have a motor that can take more than 250 watts even when it's restricted to 25km/h when you read that shite. Also somehow they changed the 25km/h moped regulations to that you need a helmet, so everybody..incl 8 year olds are now using ebikes that get the same speed without training, insurance or helmet and it's become a big issue because of the cheap chinese fatbikes and politicians not knowing shit about bikes. Especially problematic when derestricted, and not having proper brakes. Speed pedelecs are assisted up to 45km/h but need to ride on car roads where the speed limit is 50. So in practise they just zoom past you on the bike lane cause they don't wanna ride on the car roads.
Thanks for your perspective.
Robert... I have the bafang BBSHD 1000w mid-drive on my recumbent trike...
Before installing it i opened up the plate under the Sprocket.. that revealed the Reduction Gear...
At the factory they put cheap grease..
So I packed "Black" "Moly grease with lithium 2 ".. The moly grease must be the black grease. and it must be the lithium 2.. this protects the plastic gears in the motor..
This will prolong the motor life.. by making the motor run more cool,smoother and faster..
A faster spinning motor with lower torque will keep it cool and preserve the motor.. I now have over 14k miles on my trike.. and every year, i have more of the black Moly grease with lithium packed in the gears.. My motor runs quiet and smooth. Lower gear, higher power is the way to go.. Lugging down a motor will cause the controller to burn out or cause the motor to fail. I always run lower gear higher power.. and that also increases my range.. Lugged down over burdened motors suck up Watts and lower range while causing damage to an electric motor.. PEACE
Very sensible advice. Thank you.
Did similar with mine, only used Mobil-28 (red) aircraft grease.
I need to secure more in the foreseeable future.
We can't make a bottom bracket last 3months, so there's no hope for a motor in the same place.
You haven't been lucky with your bottom bracket.
My motor is broken after 10,000 km
Thanks for the information
Might be informative to know what motor you have... I suspect they're not all built to the same level of quality.
I only use rear hub direct drive motors, no moving parts and bullet proof. you can't kill them. I built a friends kid an Electric mini bike using and BMX frame even with the abuse kids give it the motor is still working fine. I have many bike out there over 5 years old and still running . My guess is you need to stop using those gear drive kits and go direct drive instead,
There's also the environmental advantage of wasting less resources.
I think after 7 thousand miles you got your monies worth...😢
He didn't even compare a 1HP ebike with 1 horse!
If we do the math, a 1,200 pound horse has to haul around 1200 lbs of weight on only one horsepower. That's about five times more weight per horsepower than an ebike has to pull around. And the rider never has to worry about lubricating the gears!😂
cannot hear..but why did i just rebuild wheel for 6th time, not once was i buying new as wires from china were/are faulty..motor itself is 3 hall sensors and 3 phase wires, oldest moter i use is 1980's "mountain tour", then few from 2014 ish..1000's of miles.. issue you face is planetary gears, vinyl.. and wires that dont take amps ebikes put out..my 250w motor will see 890wats...yes avg is 500 watts but peaks..so running what controler..facts clear old school motor..or plastic gears..my new motor lasted short life as planetary gears were chewed. lets compare gas to batteries wtf
Thanks for sharing.
@@RobertBeriault753 ive torn many old ones down rebuilt..big old ones,no gears best as regens a option,(grim,bc, can. ebikes has info on regen) planetary gears great but 1 year life span..old system got issues but easy to address, anti tear out,temp sensor added, i am 70 % disabled 57 retired as injured at work 2009..use 3 systems now but tell me required and system to match, mid drive nice off road mountain bike, front wheel great no snow/mud around the town, rear is all season,dual is weight.. of batteries..motors no pedal point. good secret many miss is a 36volt battery no bms as hobby charger is possible,sets cells perfect..called discharger/charger lvl cells and can set to 90% making cell life time 4 times.often split battery..24volts each..hobby chargers fail after 36 volts still saddly.
Thanks for sharing
direct drive hub motors are king. all other drives make no sense.
That they're so rare is a mystery to me.
@@RobertBeriault753 they arent rare at all bud
@@Blox117 You can definitely find them, but they are a definite minority.
How can you compare a $5000 gas car engine to a $100 electric ebike motor ?? ... Then there is rider weight , terrain , duration , distance , bike type and speed ! .... Come on old man , wize up ..... 😀
I don’t know anyone’s e-bike motor that’s failed yet.
this is an on-average analysis. it has nothing to do with you or anyone you know.
Can you be more specific?
3:33 in and im falling asleep.
Pity. You missed the best part!
Buy over engineered & DOT grade.
Any suggestions as to which makes of ebikes have this?
@ from experience a modified onyx CTY2/RCR.
From outside looking in: Specialized Haul, Spark bandit, Ristretto, e-cells, Beachman, to name a few e-bikes. I would include the Revv1, but I’ve seen their geared motor deteriorated due to the use of nylon gears. Spark uses metal reinforced nylon gears.
The only ones that will last/withstand will be e-bikes, e-mopeds, emoto’s that use DOT grade material.
I have firsthand experience with Ösa & CE02, about 2,000 miles on each, but those aren’t e-bikes. However, they’re thoroughly engineered, utilitarian & smart PEVs to an extent.
IMHO, the Onyx are unique & are the pioneers for what has become this space. Steel frame, hydraulic front brake, 3k watts, 72 & 60v, etc…far from perfect, but great base to build on. Everything these days is aluminum, emtb, 48-52v…it’s inadequate for anything other than leisure.
Don’t get me wrong. The Ösa is only 50v, but it’s engineered & built right. Not perfect, but highly capable.
The CE02 is dual 48v, but it’s not like any 48v.
Of the mix, the Onyx is the dumbest, but smoothest, if that makes any sense? It’s not as agile as the CE02 or as long-range as the Ösa, but it holds its own in its own special way. Mind you, significant upgrades are required to get it dialed in, but it’s more than worth the investment.
Now, this is all subjective & based on my personal likes/preferences & will differ from many others.
YVMV.
GL.
That's a lot of information to sift through. Thank you.
I just got 2 RAEV BulletX ebikes, pretty sure they are direct drive. You have given me another factor to consider, and in consideration, I spent my money wisely. Thank you!
The pictures I saw on their website show the motors as small and fat, whereas direct drive motors are big and thin. Perhaps they make both types.
See ya
👍
Interesting comparison but a gas engine and an electric engine are not in anyway the same.
That, and if you actually pedal, you're taking off some of the strain for the motor.
You are right!
Hi Robert, don't want to be patronising but chatGPT (and all large language models) are not sources of information. They literally just predict what word is likely to follow another.
"Asking" chatgpt a question is the literal equivalent of asking an uniformed person to invent a convincing sounding answer to a question.
Because it's "guess" regarding the likely answer is a regurgitation of what's been written on the internet, questions that have been asked many times are simulated realistically. IF they have been almost always answered correctly online, eg 1+1= ?, then the "answer" might be factually correct. Otherwise, it's a guess at what sounds convincing. "AI" is insidious.
I think you're absolutely right! I disregarded other inquiries I made because they didn't seem to make sense. For example, I asked what is the average lifespan of an ebike motor and it said 3,000 to 10,000 miles without even mentioning the differences between geared vs. direct drive or hub vs. mid drive.
3:33 apples and oranges
Perhaps. But 10,000 to 15,000 still isn't very much.
they dont
?
@@RobertBeriault753 6000 miles across both unicycles. 3000 miles across one scooter. when did something ever go wrong? no one has said the motor unless there was a factory defect.
A normal motorbike (100 HP, 300 kg including the driver) would prove your hypothesis wrong when compared to a car...
An interesting thought.
Motorcycle engines typically don't last near as long as cars.
E Bikes are junk bicycles for beginner cyclists. They aren't meant to be a quality part. Get into track bikes if you want quality.
Thanks for your suggestion
I had almost the same belief as you, that ebikes are for lazy people.
Nowadays I think that ebikes are a "blessing" for so many, like delivery people, the elderly, people who commute to work, etc.
I thought like that too and was against e-bikes. Then I tried one for commuting to work. Saved me time, didn’t have to change my clothes and shower at the office, and I still got exercise and enjoyed my daily commute!
@@saidsayah174 I commute 150 miles a week with one gear, 20 mph no sweating no clothes changing. E bike is for old people and lazy people and they are all junk.
@Bozo - send us a photo of your new e-bike when you reach an age where your legs are too weak to pedal a normal bike and or you have too many injuries . Of course that scenario is different for each person , but it WILL happen , guaranteed .