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30/30 Cast Bullet Testing
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- Опубліковано 16 лют 2018
- Testing a close to full power cast Bullet load in the 30/30 Winchester. The bullet being tested is the Lyman 311291, weighing 177 grains with gas check, sized .309" with a charge of IMR 3031 powder. Test rifle is a Savage 340 with 22" barrel.
Got the same rifle and have shot a bit cast from it. 170gr Lee over IMR 3031 or Trail Boss. I have a couple extra barrels I picked up over the years and just re-cut the chamber of one to 30-30 Ackley Improved. I have started some load development in it now. So far I am impressed with the velocity gain and group sizes.
Interesting. You'll probably get better case life as well with the AI chamber.
As allways, nice and informative video. Keep it up, love from Norway
Thanks.
Can u just load the magazine to test function & feed?
I’d like to see that load fired into a pork shoulder, or some sort of meat target. Thanks for sharing. Accurate and recoil looked very manageable.
I expect penetration would be pretty decent.
Good video. More people are casting these days. There isn't anything wrong with cast bullets.
While they have their limitations cast bullets are fine in many applications and certainly make for cheaper shooting.
Yes, however they are a lot less limited than people think. Matching the alloy strength to the peak pressure and powder coating puts them into the same performance realm as most jacketed loads.
Thanks, that's good information, quite accurate at 100 yards
I’m currently working on some 30/30 loads using that 3031 powder. My factory Winchester loads with 170 gr projectiles are going 2190 fps so that’s right around my goal with the handloads is, as long as accuracy is comparable.
What is the point of loading to 2200 fps with cast, assuming you could get there with 3031? I am pretty happy at 1820-1950 with 175 grn cast 30-30 out of a Marlin 336 for my woods deer and hog gun.
Personally I think it's interesting to discover the limitations of shooting with cast bullets. With the 30/30 one can get performance out of cast that equals that of jacketed with regards to velocity and accuracy.
*Hodgdon H-335 or BLC-(2) might be the powders of choice for Maximum Velocity within safe pressures....especially when working with 170 grain or heavier jacketed or cast bullets. I have loaded H-335 with 170 grain and get 2000 to 2100 within safe pressure. BLC-(2) "from the LYMAN charts" might do slightly better.*
Yes those powders have good performance according to the book loads, Winchester 748 is also a powder that performs well and I have used it a bit in the past for 30/30 loads with good results.
From my own testing with a model 94 BIG BORE in .375 Win . With properly sized bullets you can push a hard cast gas checked bullet as fast as a jacketed bullet
Yes, it's quite possible to match or even exceed jacketed bullet velocities with proper cast bullets in 30/30 and similar performance level rounds (2200 fps or less). Above those sorts of speeds it it's difficult to maintain accuracy, not impossible mind you, but more difficult.
I hope you show more tests as you up the powder . The groups you had were very good .
I hope to do so.
This is interesting to watch and see what you come up with when you re-load these to a little hotter.
I have recently bought a model 325-A and seems to be in fine condition for the first time at the range and only at about 50 metres i got 1.5 inch groups. ( and I'm not what you'd call a good shot.) Time and practice will tell.
I have another batch ready to try with 29 and 30 grains of 3031. Hope to get out sometime next week to give them a try.
Hi, hope you guys are well. Im new in casting bullets but need to get more info on lead hardness. I have purchased a block of lead which I don't know the harness off. What can happen if I cast bullets with too soft lead on .308 . I want to quench with cast and powdercoat afterwards. Does this increase the strength enough of the bullet? Will a soft lead powder coated bullet be safe too shoot in 308?
Thank you
I love that Savage 340 .
I like mine and use it a lot.
Wow. That rifle looks similar to my Savage 25C. Same barrel band, scope mount. Nice.
What caliber is your Savage?
It actually says Stevens 25C. It's in 30/30 Winchester also.
A nice group for sure .
Thanks.
If you start speeding those bullets much more, barrel lead buildup may become a concern. Over 2000f/s the lead may begin skidding instead of spinning. Accuracy before speed. Max bullet speed rarely is the most accurate load. A deer wont be able to tell the difference between a 1950 and 2050 f/s bullet. It can tell if you hit the heart or miss it by a half inch (shooting less accurate but slightly faster bullets)
As I'm sure you know cast lead bullet performance is complicated. If you shoot soft lead bullets you will run into leading, however I shoot water dropped wheel weight bullets in my rifles, they are hard and strong compared to non-heat treated or pure lead bullets. I have never had leading occur with these bullets in the 30/30 at any speed as the 30/30 is simply not capable of pushing normal weight cast bullets fast enough to cause leading issues (assuming the bullet is sufficiently large in diameter and has enough good lube on it).
As for best accuracy that is also quite a variable thing, and I would agree that a little less speed is preferable if the accuracy is better. It is true that it is generally easier to achieve better accuracy at lower speeds with cast bullets. However accuracy and speed are not exclusive of each other, however it can take a lot of time and testing to discover the "ideal" loading. Thanks for your comment.
Also loaded 125 gr sierra Spitzer
With H335 powder. Was great
Remington also made A bolt 788
Chambered 30 30.
Very underestimated guns....
My 340 was very accurate
I would like to have a 788 in 30/30, but they dont seem to come up for sale very often.
788 in 30 30 rare. Also 44 magnum
YOU CAN'T SHOOT CAST BULLETS FROM A 30-30!!! Ha haha Look forward to seeing the next loads. Looks like you got a good thing going!
I seem to recall hearing that somewhere in the last couple months...
I have a couple more loads with increased charges ready to test at the next opportunity, I'd be pleased if I got the same size groups but at 2100 fps.
I was told you can't shoot .223 cast bullets either. Wrong! Some "experts" either need to shut up or simply find a new profession or hobby.
Good grouping. My Daughter deer hunts with the same kind of rifle
This one has proven to be plenty accurate, shooting the 170 grain Winchester Power Point and Sivertip quite well.
314299 Shooting Channel We will have to try the 170 grain offerings, She has hunted with Winchester 150 grain and taken deer out to about 80 yards, but didn't group real tight on paper.
Most manufacturers load their 150 and 170 grain to about the same velocity in deference to the iron sights found on most 30/30's, so you get more energy on target with the 170 and generally better accuracy than with the 150.
Problem ejecting the brass? Hitting the scope?
The poor ejection is mostly about me not vigorously moving the bolt all the way to the way back. This is a habit I have when shooting from the bench so as to avoid having the brass scattered on the ground. When operated quickly the brass ejects decently, in fact I was shooting this rifle yesterday from the prone position and it was chucking the empties out nicely.
I use 3031 too for my #94 - 27.5 gr.'s with FTX 160gr.'s and just get under 2,000 fps and although there a lil light they group well with a 20" bbl. thumbs up..........
The FTX is an interesting bullet for a lever action, do you find that it groups well?
yes i get really good groups with irons, Williams dove tail type Fire Sights which are adjustable for both elev. n windage. i have old eyes but because the are not a round or flat tip bullets they group well for me with 26.8, 27, 27.5 gr.'s of 3031. when i go higher it kicks more and don't really get better groups. since 3031 doesn't meter well with RCBS powder thrower i have to trickle to get these good groups. it's an old powder but can be used in many cal.'s so i keep a lb. always on hand. plus it's great for cast 150gr. bullets. FTX bullets have that hard plastic tip so when you measure "oal" it is a lil challenge cause ya don't want to press down on it. i made 3 dummy rounds before i loaded them to make sure they cycled well and they do. having a spitzer tip is why i think they fly well. i use them in a model 94 with a 20" bbl. :) be safe.........
I wish i could reload cast bullets it's not easy to find lead here
I's not quite as easy to get where I live as it used to be but it's still around.
With USPS Flate Rate priority, I used to get lead shipped from anywhere in USA.
rusty nuts - start powder coating
The savage 340 is a very accurate one.
Yes, they can be quite good with ammo that they like.
You have a lot of experience reloading, I'm trying to reload sub sonic .308 with campro 147 grain boattail bullets. Will trail boss powder work? So far no luck with imr type powders too little fill for .308 brass. 2 squibs. On Mossberg 800a from 69.
The Hodgdon website lists a starting load of 10 grains of Trail Boss in .308 with a 150 grain jacketed bullet, loaded to an OAL of 2.800" and giving 1176 fps, which is a bit above the speed of sound. I'm not sure that reducing this load any further is a good idea. If I were you I would contact Hodgdon and ask them if the load could be reduced further to make it truly subsonic.
Trail boss is youre best bet.
I would try something like unique. Look in the Lyman cast bullet handbook
Reduced loads can be very dangerous, however trailboss is your safest bet there, however that really isnt your problem. Your main problem is your bullet choice, esspecially with a 308. That maybe possible with a 300blk but not with a case as large as a 308. Needs to be heavy, very heavy. Thats why the 300blk is prime for subsonic 30 cal. Small case with a super heavy bullet and not a lot of pressure with that shallow shoulder. But there are other factors that play into this. For instance barrel twist, is a major factor to consider before buying projectiles for anything. In your particular case esspecially, I have a mossberg 800a and though it is a good shooter, the barrel twist rate on it is 1:12 as are most 30 caliber rifles from those days. In todays standards thats considered pretty slow and the slower the twist rate the less options you have for heavier bullets. There are some exceptions with O-give and driving band length from one bullet type/brand to another but a pretty good rule of thumb for that twist rate is 168-175gr being the max heaviest that barrel will stabilize. and Realisticly you need 200+gr weight. The only option you have for that rifle basically is a heavier bullet like 168SMK and trail boss and that is about as good as your going to get.
Believe it or not but thats my dream rifle haha. Used to own one in .222
I would like to have one of these in 222 or 223.
great stuff!
Thanks.
Someone suggested I do cast bullets for 7MM Remington Magnum. At such high velocities, gas checks are certainly a want. I'm just concerned about performance and accuracy of the lead, and which bullet design I should use for it.
Magnum rounds have way too much case capacity for cast bullets. I'm not saying they cannot be made to work with cast, but they are just about the worst choice you could make for cast.
So I was right in my assement, that the high speeds and/or the intense powder charge would be too much for the lead to handle.
@@alexunfiltered5756 mainly correct. Driving cast bullets faster than 2000f/s can cause serious lead deposits they tend to skid down the barrel rather than rotate.
Love the idea of a 30/30 bolt rifle. Looks like you have a good load so far, just hope they don't spread as the charge goes up. May need a different powder if they do spread out.
There is a full speed load in the Lyman book with Winchester 748 that I might just try, a buddy used to shoot 748 with a Lyman 311041 with excellent results.
Another powder i might try is 4064.
Don't forget Varget although I'm using a couple pounds of IMR 4064 right now.
I'm sure Varget would work fine, but lately it has been hard to find around here and expensive when it does show up.
Yup haven't seen Varget in a long time but Walmart has 4064 off and on at a fair price.
Have you thought of reloading a spitzer style bullet with hodgon’s leverevolution powder?? I have that same rifle and am thinking of developing that kind of load
I've not really considered LEVERevolution powder as I have too many types already and have decided to stick as much as possible to the types I can reliably source. Winchester 748 is very close to LEVERevolution in burn rate and get's very good velocities. I may so some shooting with spitzer bullets this summer in this rifle, and try it out at a bit more distance.
Awesome! I've got a bolt gun .30-30 I just picked up, haven't loaded for it yet. I Will have to make a video one of these days...
A Savage/Stevens or a Remington 788?
314299 Shooting Channel western field 712, Savage with a westernfield stamp.
Apparently there were a few other "store branded" versions as well.
314299 Shooting Channel yea the local gunshop guy had a couple Savage 340s but I didn't have a western field branded anything yet so that's what followed me home, haha, hope to get the others out of his shop before they disappear. Would be great guns for my kiddos.
What sort of price is he asking?
That's still a good caliber for Deer.
It does the job if the distance is kept moderate.
Did you heat treat the bullets? That can easily bump the accuracy node up a few hundred FPS.
These were water quenched of the mold and were cast fairly hot, which gives results similar to a proper heat treating, although not as consistent bullet to bullet in hardness.
Yeah. That used to be my method. I found that with a toaster oven and a bucket of water, it is very little effort to heat treat the whole batch. It means each shot behaves more constently with the last. Also I found that my BHN was 2-3 higher when I heat treat the batch vs. mold drop into a bucket.
Yes, proper heat treating gives more control over the process and should let one get the maximum hardness possible out of a given alloy. I plan on buying a heat treating oven for that purpose.
A toaster oven from a thrift store is more than adequate. Just be sure to verify that it's thermometer is accurate. I had a sad experience heat treating a bunch of 160 grain linotype spire points that turned to a puddle in my oven when I jostled the tray to pull them out. LASC's whitepaper on heat treating lead alloy has proven do be dead on with all my attempts and measurements. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm It saves a lot of blundering and trial and error to just read that paper. I used to only bother with the rifle and magnum pistol bullets, but now I just do it for everything. Since consistency is the goal, and it is only ~5 minutes of my time per 1000, I figure it is a reasonable step to add. Otherwise I am all about eliminating steps which are redundant or don't give significant improvement per time invested.
P.s. Some sensible people advocate having a big chunk of steel in the toaster oven to give it some thermal mass, so that the internal temperature is as stable as possible. I've never done that, but it does make sense to me.
Great looking rifle, what is the twist rate on these ones?
The twist rate is the standard one used for 30/30 rifles, one turn in ten inches.
Good shooting!
Thanks. I had a rare day with no wind to speak of so that helped.
How about cast vs. factory, accuracy. I reload & cast for pistol, shotgun & rifle. My cast bullets for pistol & shotgun are OK, but accuracy for rifle pathetic. Slugged the barrel, etc. No luck. Never shot .30-30, but like the rimmed round.
Cast in rifle can be more of a challenge. You need a bullet that tough and hard enough to withstand the mechanical stress and also one that fits not just the bore of the rifle but also fills the chamber throat so that the bullet does not get gas cut.
Lookin good!
Thanks, the accuracy was quite acceptable, just need to get the velocity up a bit.
I'd like to see how these loads would perform on deer sized game and a similar .303 load would be interesting
It's not all that difficult to produce a "soft nose" expanding version for hunting purposes, those who have tried them say they work as well as a jacketed soft point.
314299 Shooting Channel I have a mold for my 30-30 and one for my nagant. How can I cast for an expanding hunting bullet? I've cast pistol rounds for years but I'm new at casting rifle ammo, especially for hunting.
rusty nuts thanks for taking the time to answer. I've used wheel weights for my handgun (.45 Colt) 255 gr. Flat nose for hunting except I would add some pure lead to the mix to soften it up. I've always had good results with little to no leading. Do you ever have leading issues in your rifle using wheel weights?
rusty nuts thanks for the info. I'm gonna dig out my rifles and give it a try. Back early last year I had tried reloading for my 30-30 but didn't get far, (my stepdad passed.) Things are just now settling down so I can try again. I've bought another mold for my nagant also. Gonna be interesting. Thanks again.
I use TO use IMR4227 IN MY 340
WITH THAT SAME BULLET
4227 is a a fine powder for cast in the 30/30. The Lyman 311291 and 311041 are generally the best choices for cast bullets in the 30/30.
Barrel length? Decent vid!
Barrel is 22" long.
I've actually never seen nor heard of a 30-30 bolt action. I only thaught that 30-30s only came in a lever action platform like the model 1894s and 336s. Go figure
Although not very well known Savage/Stevens made this pattern of rifle from the late 1940's to the mid 1980's. They were also produced in other calibers (.222 Rem, .223 Rem & 225 Win)
I have a Savage Model 45 Super Sporter chambered in 30-30, that came off the Savage production line in September 1928, and is still a tack driver with CB's.
Tim Farley it seems the older harlooms seem to stand on better build quality then some or (most) firearms produced nowadays. I have my uncle's old 1950 Winchester 1894 in 35 rem and damn, is that thing a reliable, rugged workhorse that put down tons of venison to feed his family for generations. Its amazing how these old guns like mine always run like they did just with the first shots. God bless antiques I tell you , gotta love em
I want that shirt you are wearing! Any info appreciated..
It's made by Columbia and is a wool blend. I've had it a few years.
It's 3/14. Are you gonna cast 3/14 bullets in celebration of 3.14 day?
Yes, and I cast 299 of them. Then I ate an entire pie.
What is the scope mount?
It's the Weaver side mount base and rings.
Blame the carbean length barrel ;)
The load data in the Lyman book is for a 24" barrel and the savage is
22", so that explains some of the diminished velocity I got. Also the Lyman data was mostly likely developed and tested at room temperature and not at -5C.