What are the odds that the French discovered oil while building the Suez Canal and then began to abandoned the project to start enslaving Algerians and placing troops in other oil rich neighborhoods?
Just a kind hint…one of the presenters in a blue T-shirt…talks too fast for an Aussie like me…his words are slurred together often at a fast pace in his accent. Could you please slow down ❤
At 20:06 you talk about Mesha sacrificing his eldest son to Kemosh in 2 Kings 3 paralleling the Mesha Stele (Moabite Stone). The way the Hebrew writers recorded it and understood this whole event is that they ascribed the Moabite victory to the supernatural wrath of the god Kemosh. The Biblical narrative has Kemosh beating Yahweh in this particular battle. Another fascinating issue with this battle is that Elisha prophecies in 2 Kings 3:18-19, that Yahweh will hand over the Moabites to Jehoshaphat. Elisha prophesied that Jehoshaphat will _"conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones.”_ What happened with this supposed prophecy from Yahweh? Did the prophet Elisha make up a false prophecy? Can Yahweh's plans be thwarted by other satans/deities? After a HUGE ongoing study including this story, the Joshua/Moses genocide campaigns, human sacrifices to Yahweh, etc., I no longer view the Bible as inerrant. I do however believe the Bible is sufficient in its purpose of bearing witness of God and His plan of Salvation through Christ. How do we as Christians make sense of this issue of false prophecy and Yahweh being beaten? Elisha was wrong or Yahweh is in a war and loses some battles?
Another fascinating find when I was going through _Richard Elliot Friedman's_ UA-cam course is that he believes _Amos 2:1_ refers to the king of Moab and that he actually burned the son of Edom on the wall. _"Thus says the Lord: For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because he burned to lime the bones of the king of Edom."_ Amos 2:1 So in 2 Kings 3:27 it could be saying: _"Then_ [Mesha] _took_ [the king of Edom's] _firstborn son who was to succeed him and offered_ [the king of Edom's son] _as a burnt offering on the wall. And great wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from_ [Moab] _and returned to their own land."_ The _great wrath_ may actually not have been the wrath of the Moabite god Kemosh but simply the _great wrath_ of Israel over the evils of Mesha. I wonder if Judah and Edom continued to fight when Israel fled...?
Sorry we're just now getting back to you. We're working on a video on the Mesha stele and I knew there was some good stuff in the comments on this video. We would agree that "inerrancy", at least as it's commonly defined, isn't a helpful idea when it comes to reading the Bible. We would agree that trustworthiness and sufficiency are better as they allow for the ambiguity and confusion of passages like 2 Kings 3 without the whole Bible falling apart. Thanks for your contribution.
@@BeneaththeBible Why bother if the Bible were 'errant'? "ambiguity and confusion' is the countenance of our feeble fallen mortal faces, not that of Almighty God whose Word is Truth.
Great video! Maybe you guys should do a video on Semitic religion & pantheon at some point, since I'm curious if the various gods of the Levant, like Chemosh or Qos, are supposed to be sons of El, the high-god of Ugarit.
@@ryanbaker614 I've heard. I've also heard that YHWH is El, so it would be good to see someone make a good overview on the subject. Philip and Kyle are pretty balanced in my opinion on the scholarship, not being afraid of secular scholars and show what different theories are.
Interesting, informative video overall, but what of the Moabite Stone not mentioned here? It has a fascinating history and is now at the Louvre. You also don't mention the most famous Moabite, Ruth, King David's great-grandmother, Jesus is actually of half=Moabite ancestry.
While I agree the passage is notoriously difficult due to the ambiguity, I feel the video did a great disservice to the sacrifice of 2 Kings and was lacking in context. This was not some improvised, unprecedented event (which is what I assumed you meant by 'ad hoc') that lacks any connection to other rituals. The kings sacrifice was carried out in accordance with ancient Canaanite laws of sacral warfare, as we found in a cuneiform tablet from the Syrian city of Ugarit, which contained the "Ugaritic Prayer for a City Under Siege" that explicitly calls for the sacrifice of the firstborn to "Drive away the [enemy] force from our gates, The aggressor from our walls". Mesha’s sacrifice of his son was in fact an integral part of an age-old Canaanite tradition of holy warfare. While not explicit in to whom the sacrifice was made, scholars are pretty much in line with it being Chemosh. Some people suggest the sacrifice was actually to Yahweh, not Chemosh, but with the many prohibitions against child sacrifice in the Torah that isn't consistent with the wider biblical narrative (and if it was the case breaking the law in this way would more likely incur the Yahweh's wrath than his favour) and from a narrative perspective, it makes more sense that if Mesha did sacrifice his son to Yahweh that the author would have called out this very unique aberration.
Thanks for the feedback. We were pressed for time here but we’re doing a video later this season just on the Mesha Stele, and we’ll look at this sacrifice in depth then.
@@BeneaththeBible Please do. I just wrote a comment to this video and then saw this. I agree with *_@Eddie Ruminski_* on this one. I actually watched this video just to see how you make sense of and explain the Moabite king's sacrifice and Elisha's [failed] prophecy.
Mesha is Mecca .🕋 you can check the old Bible such as Newcastle Bible year 1811 and the rabbi Saadia geon Torah .they mentioned Mecca and story of Hagar when they teach the area called Hijaz .newcatle said the hijaz rock (حجر الحجاز ).Hejaz is the area of Mecca
also you are confused respectfully king david is a israelite from tribe of judah which king david father is jesse a well known israelite from tribe of judah. there is no such thing as mixing example if a moabite man married a ishmaelite woman and they bared a child that baby is a moabite a man seed determine the child nationality respectfully all a woman do is carry the baby while the man planted his seed. Another example i live in fresno california if i planted a apple seed in africa would that seed be different no it's still an apple seed and will grow the same way if i planted that same seed in california. No matter what the seed depends on the man very simple
proverbs 16:18 pride comes before destruction KJV . if you truly understand the bible the God of Abraham, issac, jacob can not be beat matter fact it's all apart of his great plan to give the israelites their everlasting salvation through our forefather ,saviour ,king , lord christ 🦁✊🏾
What he say Israel didn’t escape through any Mobites town because they were low key waring with each other ! So Israel never went into Europe or Asia !!
What are the odds that the French discovered oil while building the Suez Canal and then began to abandoned the project to start enslaving Algerians and placing troops in other oil rich neighborhoods?
😂😂😂😂😂 a big question ⁉️
Yahuah undefeated
Always and forever never forget that. These clowns have it coming but this time it won't be from King Jehoshaphat
Just a kind hint…one of the presenters in a blue T-shirt…talks too fast for an Aussie like me…his words are slurred together often at a fast pace in his accent. Could you please slow down ❤
At 20:06 you talk about Mesha sacrificing his eldest son to Kemosh in 2 Kings 3 paralleling the Mesha Stele (Moabite Stone). The way the Hebrew writers recorded it and understood this whole event is that they ascribed the Moabite victory to the supernatural wrath of the god Kemosh. The Biblical narrative has Kemosh beating Yahweh in this particular battle.
Another fascinating issue with this battle is that Elisha prophecies in 2 Kings 3:18-19, that Yahweh will hand over the Moabites to Jehoshaphat. Elisha prophesied that Jehoshaphat will _"conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones.”_
What happened with this supposed prophecy from Yahweh? Did the prophet Elisha make up a false prophecy? Can Yahweh's plans be thwarted by other satans/deities?
After a HUGE ongoing study including this story, the Joshua/Moses genocide campaigns, human sacrifices to Yahweh, etc., I no longer view the Bible as inerrant. I do however believe the Bible is sufficient in its purpose of bearing witness of God and His plan of Salvation through Christ. How do we as Christians make sense of this issue of false prophecy and Yahweh being beaten? Elisha was wrong or Yahweh is in a war and loses some battles?
Another fascinating find when I was going through _Richard Elliot Friedman's_ UA-cam course is that he believes _Amos 2:1_ refers to the king of Moab and that he actually burned the son of Edom on the wall.
_"Thus says the Lord: For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because he burned to lime the bones of the king of Edom."_
Amos 2:1
So in 2 Kings 3:27 it could be saying: _"Then_ [Mesha] _took_ [the king of Edom's] _firstborn son who was to succeed him and offered_ [the king of Edom's son] _as a burnt offering on the wall. And great wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from_ [Moab] _and returned to their own land."_
The _great wrath_ may actually not have been the wrath of the Moabite god Kemosh but simply the _great wrath_ of Israel over the evils of Mesha.
I wonder if Judah and Edom continued to fight when Israel fled...?
Sorry we're just now getting back to you. We're working on a video on the Mesha stele and I knew there was some good stuff in the comments on this video. We would agree that "inerrancy", at least as it's commonly defined, isn't a helpful idea when it comes to reading the Bible. We would agree that trustworthiness and sufficiency are better as they allow for the ambiguity and confusion of passages like 2 Kings 3 without the whole Bible falling apart. Thanks for your contribution.
@@BeneaththeBible Why bother if the Bible were 'errant'?
"ambiguity and confusion' is the countenance of our feeble fallen mortal faces, not that of Almighty God whose Word is Truth.
Thanks! With Mesha in mind, do you plan on making an educational video about "cherem" ?
We have a video coming later this season just on the Mesha Stele. We may cover it some more there or in another video.
Great video! Maybe you guys should do a video on Semitic religion & pantheon at some point, since I'm curious if the various gods of the Levant, like Chemosh or Qos, are supposed to be sons of El, the high-god of Ugarit.
Great idea! We have this season planned out, but we’ll put it on the list for the future.
So is YHWH
@@ryanbaker614 I've heard. I've also heard that YHWH is El, so it would be good to see someone make a good overview on the subject. Philip and Kyle are pretty balanced in my opinion on the scholarship, not being afraid of secular scholars and show what different theories are.
@@js1423 originally Yahweh was a separate being from El (a.k.a. El Elyon, El Olam, Anu, Allah....), then it became the "one true God"
@@fostena Got some scholars I should check out?
Interesting, informative video overall, but what of the Moabite Stone not mentioned here? It has a fascinating history and is now at the Louvre. You also don't mention the most famous Moabite, Ruth, King David's great-grandmother, Jesus is actually of half=Moabite ancestry.
Gladys Alicea- you are incorrect Christ is 100 percent a israelite from tribe of judah
While I agree the passage is notoriously difficult due to the ambiguity, I feel the video did a great disservice to the sacrifice of 2 Kings and was lacking in context. This was not some improvised, unprecedented event (which is what I assumed you meant by 'ad hoc') that lacks any connection to other rituals. The kings sacrifice was carried out in accordance with ancient Canaanite laws of sacral warfare, as we found in a cuneiform tablet from the Syrian city of Ugarit, which contained the "Ugaritic Prayer for a City Under Siege" that explicitly calls for the sacrifice of the firstborn to "Drive away the [enemy] force from our gates, The aggressor from our walls". Mesha’s sacrifice of his son was in fact an integral part of an age-old Canaanite tradition of holy warfare.
While not explicit in to whom the sacrifice was made, scholars are pretty much in line with it being Chemosh. Some people suggest the sacrifice was actually to Yahweh, not Chemosh, but with the many prohibitions against child sacrifice in the Torah that isn't consistent with the wider biblical narrative (and if it was the case breaking the law in this way would more likely incur the Yahweh's wrath than his favour) and from a narrative perspective, it makes more sense that if Mesha did sacrifice his son to Yahweh that the author would have called out this very unique aberration.
Thanks for the feedback. We were pressed for time here but we’re doing a video later this season just on the Mesha Stele, and we’ll look at this sacrifice in depth then.
@@BeneaththeBible Please do. I just wrote a comment to this video and then saw this. I agree with *_@Eddie Ruminski_* on this one. I actually watched this video just to see how you make sense of and explain the Moabite king's sacrifice and Elisha's [failed] prophecy.
Mesha is Mecca .🕋 you can check the old Bible such as Newcastle Bible year 1811 and the rabbi Saadia geon Torah .they mentioned Mecca and story of Hagar when they teach the area called Hijaz .newcatle said the hijaz rock (حجر الحجاز ).Hejaz is the area of Mecca
also you are confused respectfully king david is a israelite from tribe of judah which king david father is jesse a well known israelite from tribe of judah. there is no such thing as mixing example if a moabite man married a ishmaelite woman and they bared a child that baby is a moabite a man seed determine the child nationality respectfully all a woman do is carry the baby while the man planted his seed. Another example i live in fresno california if i planted a apple seed in africa would that seed be different no it's still an apple seed and will grow the same way if i planted that same seed in california. No matter what the seed depends on the man very simple
Why the "bake-beat" music. Ugh. 😂
proverbs 16:18 pride comes before destruction KJV . if you truly understand the bible the God of Abraham, issac, jacob can not be beat matter fact it's all apart of his great plan to give the israelites their everlasting salvation through our forefather ,saviour ,king , lord christ 🦁✊🏾
He went off not relati g tie to the seed but yet a woman. This is invalid argument at this point.
King Jehoshaphat defeated Moab and Ammon
What he say Israel didn’t escape through any Mobites town because they were low key waring with each other ! So Israel never went into Europe or Asia !!
West Semitic means West Africans ! Not Egyptians !!
Moabites sounds like the Arabs !