I haven't made it that far on the vid yet but 8 bet one if not both are really massssaging the car, lol peter knows a lot but is a clown at the same time
Best videos on Internet about F1 nowadays, by far. Keep up with the good work because it's absolutely delightfull see you guys. Thanks and greetings from Portugal!
Best F1 inside insight comes IMHO from Michael Schmidt AKA Formel Schmidt, at Auto Motor und Sport. Very rational, experienced, no nonsense, neutral with no bias (Windsor's fanboyism towards Hamilton is almost shameless and like watching a one way bromance). Too bad for many that Michael Schmidt only speaks German in his intervieuws.
So glad to see you both in the same room at the same time and together, sharing the same energy from friends being friends just before the interview into the interview. Nice work, love what you're doing. You're so good at it. So much info so easily available. GGs
So listening to Kyle.Engineers (ex-Merc aerodynamicist) it sounds like the centerline cooling isn't ideal in modern F1 cars. Perhaps its changed since the old days, but it sounds like the boundary layer is really starting to be a problem where Merc have their sidepods, and that the conventional setup of high and wide is far superior. His take is that the sidepods had to be that shape to allow the downwashing winglet to be legal in the rule set (demands 2 y slices maximum for the bodywork so the sidepod can only make up one if they want a winglet as the other, thus it can only be sloped downwards). It seems like it isn't advantageous at all, he specifically addressed cooling problems as a difficulty with that setup, and that its more just taking a hit with the sidepods for the great benefit of the winglets producing a ton of downwash and outwash right where the cars have lost barge boards and the like, and right where the curl downforce is generated on the floor. Its also possible the winglet tip vortexes are beneficial downwashing along the car and floor edge, but thats more up in the air. Of course he hasn't worked on the current cars and none of it is insider information or really anything beyond observing pictures, but given his expertise I put a fair bit of weight into his analysis.
Was also looking towards Kyle for that knowledge, he is a great contribution to the online youtube F1 fan environment It seems its growing in size and popularity I have to go back and watch his videos a few times to see them, they are quite overwhelming
I love Kyle Engineers. Some of it is hard to fully understand, but i always learn several things each episode. Kyle Engineers, Chainbear, and Peter Windsor with Scarbs is a nice trio of UA-cam education!
@@JacobVahrSvenningsen Hopefully he has some time to go over both Red Bull's and Mercedes's new package. I suppose he may wait until after the first race once they 'finalize' their concept.
They have spent ALL 3 days using vis Paint on the floor, theirs development pace look like they are developing a thing at a time, First the base of the car, then the New sidepod philosofy and now as i Said, they are focusing on the floor wich was one of the simpelst on the Grid in Bahrein. Thats what i IMAGINE they are doing EDIT: There are more things that lead me to think about this such as previous years operation style, but Thats mostly It
I was at IMTS in Chicago in 2018 and there was a 3D printed titanium rocket nozzle with through cooling which could be picked up with one hand, but it was half a meter long and probably 35cm wide. That a lot of metal to only weigh a couple kg. 3D printed heat exchangers have a lot of potential due to the fact that cooling efficiency is directly related to wetted surface area. I'd expect to find these things all over the place in the coming years.
@@sheldoniusRex yes and no, creating new iterations of designs is easier with 3d printing. So yes, if they were to mass produce it would be much more expensive, but to create and refine new designs its much cheaper to 3d print.
@@johnk190 many geometries, especially in heat exchangers, are impossible to make in one piece, except for 3d printing. The rocket nozzle I was talking about is hourglass shaped with cooling channels running longitudinally through the walls. This is impossible to make from one piece of titanium using any other technique. The firearms industry has started 3d printing silencers with gas channels which flow back on themselves out of inconel. Again they are severely weight constrained and need maximum surface area to maximize the cooling of flowing gas. These geometries are impossible to machine, and making them out of sections as an assembly makes the device too fragile for military use. As the cost of 3d printing goes down I expect to see such heat exchangers become more widespread. Especially considering that automobiles and aircraft both benefit from weight savings, and are high value items which can justify the price impact if performance gains are sufficiently significant.
Love both of your channels/videos, and always great to see both of you together!! Thanks for all the wonderful insights, information and chirps! Carry on rocking F1. Best regards from Johannesburg, South Africa.
It's absolutely new for me that there was no reaction from Toto after the last testing day. Zero-pods updates were proudly introduced by him but didn't show any major improvement. Wonder what this tells us about the correlation of the windtunnel software.
One thing to add on 3D printing, for heat exchangers or any other application" is that you can make things that would be impossible in any other way. In this application I am thinking of the design of the fin matrix of the exchanger itself, instead of folded aluminium sheets, you could have any bends in any dimension all through the matrix.
I think Merc were just doing Testing.... Yes they have a few issues and some will be sorted out by the season opener.. Seeing that they have the best downforce in slower corners they will go really well at Monaco. As soon as they sort out the bouncing they will go faster in the mid to high speed corners so they will be very competitive.
@@Goaltimer mechanical grip is needed at all corners and is much more important at slower corners. However slow corners still benefit from some downforce.
@@BNOVA how do you think this stacks up to something like RB who seem to be going all in on their design philosophy and testing multiple stuff at the same time? So far RB looks better.
@@suckieduckie Redbull and Ferrari do lol better and I expect them to be ahead come race weekend. However Mercedes seem. To be test a very wide variety of setups that then can learn from. They have in recent years focused on tire performance a lot as that is the part of the car that meets the road. I suspect they are testing a lot with that as well as aero and suspension to see what works for them. I suspect they have a lot of downforce but it seems to be peaky and that may be easy to solve or may take longer so expect to see a different floor next week to iron out some of the bouncing. I am more worried for Ferrari as I am not sure how much scope thier design has updates. They may start solid but I am not sure how much they can improve the design due to how aggressive it is.
When it comes to which team has fastest cars its "ALWAYS" the teams with the best overall engineering staff that come out on top. The budget cap wont stop the top teams having the best staff. Adrian Newey at Red Bull may be a genius but he cant do it alone. Merc have shown for many years they have one of the best engineering groups in racing. They were no where at the start of 2021 due to the reg changes but they caught back up quickly. Then remember back in 2018 when Ferrari looked dominant in preseason testing? Who won that year? Merc won Drivers & Constructors! If there is one team that can get on top of their problems & sort them out its Mercedes!
They also have more engineering strength which bypasses cost cap. Like Merc R&D which builds a compact radiator and then deputizes an employee to work for f1 team after it is developed.
Getting peak downforce is one thing... but when you have to spring it so stiff to get it to ride so low to work at peak numbers... but that then affects slower speed corner handling, they probably need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Unless the high speed corner gains massively outweigh the low speed losses and the toll on the drivers, maybe they just need to back it off a bit and find a happy medium. Its no wonder they would love the return of active suspension.
Resonance between the suspension and the floor structure. Choking doesn't mean no more flow, choking means no more flow than what you have. Choking happens when a normal shock forms near transonic speeds, which happen a throat of the tunnels. The airflow that makes it around the strakes is the only mass of air that goes to the throat. Also when you have choked flow, downstream conditions have no influence on upstream conditions because of the normal shock that forms. Feeding a downstream jet will lower the pressure of the floor because the choked condition upstream will not allow more flow through unless the pressure at the inlet increases.
I'm so happy Scarbs has been put in the mainstream lately! I remember your video with him on the 2014 rules anf thinking wow, I want this insight weekly!
Quite right Peter those floor edges look like they have been testing the car on the public roads of Hertfordshire and Essex. Maybe speed humpsville USA Harpenden ? where no car is now safe .
@@timigs Obviously he is going to defend them because its fully legal. The youtube channel the other guy sent explains it perfectly. They are within the regulations.
I seen an interview with Lewis saying the car was not going to win races, strangely, he was trying hard to keep a big smile off his face, didn't look disappointed to me
I’ve been going on around the Internet about how that Mercedes looks like some of the early to mid 70s F1 cars with its side pro shape all these new fans kept questioning me and asking what I was on about. nice to see that me being 21 years of age can have likeness with somebody as experienced in the sport as you. Just the way it gradually gets “fatter” towards the bottom and forms a more triangular shape really reminds me of the designs of old!
As much as I doubt it’ll happen. Imagine teams like Williams and alpine were sandbagging and just blow merc/rbr/Ferrari out of the water and we get a ocon/Alonso/Albon/Latifi scrap or something. Unlikely, but I feel like it would be awesome if the rules worked perfectly and instead of “other teams” playing catch up, the “top 3” become the “other teams”, but can actually develop too and come later in the season or next year it’s something close to a 8 driver scrap for the title. Would be BEAUTIFUL, no matter who wins. I just used alpine and Williams at examples. Give me alpha tauri, Aston, haas, idc. Would be so cool to see new faces fighting for wins and champs.
Thanks for this video. Reg the rake on Redbull, I noticed it too but later I was able to find similar rake on Mercedes as well. But it hasn't solved the bouncing yet 😅
This might be the ultimate sandbag. Look at the floor edge completely flat , no flick-ups, no vortex generators, no cut-outs. They will show up with a magic floor and it will all "Join Together with the Band". I could not help The Who reference. They will pick up a a second to a second and a half of time. It will be a "Magic Bus".
The fact that the drafting is really able to be used is a lot on the drive getting over denial of not having it an not having used it an knowing hey I can go up here an run in an sling shot out....so the first race...or pack style practice is gonna make a big show of it...but I have already seen 4 to 5 instances where drivers have been able to race around each other quite a shock to themselves....I think the young drivers who just got here from less aero assisted f2 or f3 cars will have some of that experience to remember what do guys think.....thanks again to both yall...either way can u feel the excitement building already...place your bets.....oh sorry no odds have been sorta. Bets are on hold.....mid season at least
The company mentioned is Reaction Engines (not Rockets) and one of their specialties are heat exchangers which are using extremely thin tubes. So parts of it may be 3D-printed, but the ‚cool‘ part is the tubes and their manufacturing.
But I think you have to agree that, while the merc sidepods are legal, it wasn't really the FIA's intention to create this kind of shape. From what I understand, what allowed Merc to create this shape is that the sidepods don't bulge out and back in when viewed from up to down. Instead, they unly "bulge" out until they meet the floor. And as far as I understand it, this allows them to have an additional "degree of freedom" that was necessary to cover the crash side structure that they wouldn't have had with a normal side pod shape. (I.e., one that bulges out and back in at the bottom) At least thats how I understand it. Kyle.Engineers created a nice video about this topic: ua-cam.com/video/pP6T1comENg/v-deo.html
Sensible stuff, as always. Will be interesting to see if RBs front suspension layout turns out as ‘the’ trick (in combination with the aero package, naturally). That one will be difficult for the others to replicate.
Thank you so much for touching on the engine-related aspects of what the teams have done or could be doing. As much so much was seen and heard about sidepods, porpoising, floors, downforce, aerodynamics and the like over the three days of the tests, there was virtually nothing seen, said or written about the power units behind the cars. Why was this? What actually has happened or is taking place on the power unit front? Surely, with engine development set to be be locked down for development through to 2025, this must have been a crucial area of work by the teams. One thinks for instance of Ferrari (what steps forward did they effect in the ground they seem to have regained since their debacles of 2019 which evidently related to power unit issues); Red Bull (with Honda's pull out and their own engine plant not yet fully operational, what engine are they running?); Mercedes (will the "spicy engine" still be used?); and so on. I was also surprised that, with the governance and political issues swirling around the sport, there seemed to be even a conspiracy of silence on those issues. Nothing said about the sacking of Michael Masi or what is happening with him still in the sport; nothing about the interim regulatory measures that have been put in place or been promised; nothing about the investigations following the Abu Dhabi fiasco which should have been completed by now; nothing about how the new Mohammed Sulayman is doing in general. These questions are clearly just as important for the racing and future of the sport at large, in some respects even more so, as are sidepod or floor innovations. Why was there what even looked like a conspiracy of silence over these questions?
I do think car hitting bottom on track starts a little bounce that gives a suction starting occilation...that just gets the pourpoise going an then the speed comes in that bring s the cars down with a bump that starts a chain of bouncing first unseen an then it grows with a bump in the right place
The active suspension ground effect cars bounced horribly. Nigel Mansell said it’s fast but the vibration so bad the driver literally can’t see. It took a long time to get it sorted.
all very interesting, however we shouldn't be talking about this design for the MB as those so called rearview mirror supports are illegal as are clearly wings to support the air flow to the rear of the car. Change my mind!
I'm a (chartered) engineer with a masters and my own consultancy company (not to sound too grand....). But these guys seem to me to be extraordinarily expert in this very highly technical niche of f1 technical knowledge and understanding. So, so impressive....
I wonder how much better F1 would be if it's addiction to 'aero' could be broken? Very, very, much better would be my bet. Ban all 'aero' I say, but for a strictly regulated simple single-plane front and rear wing mounted fore and aft of the axel lines.
Mercedes is almost always starting their new season on the backfoot from having fought tothe very end of the prior season fighting for championships... but they inevitably have the talent and resources to stay in contention for early race wins. It's not sandbagging when they still have to put the effort in. I suppose it is the cost of success.
They basically shut it down towards the end and began working on next year car every year of the hybrid era. Last year the was the exception. They fought for the constructors title.
They just like crying, Lewis in particular that means that everything is perfect but you have to give the impression that you tell them what to do and now the car is much better. Same story at the start of every new season. Boring!!!
Enjoying the content but struggling to hear (decided I wanted to watch it out of the house) seems other channels I have no problem. May there’s something in your settings when you upload.....others don’t seem to have mentioned it so maybe not an issue but thought I would highlight incase you wanted to look into it
I know you're probably busy as all hell currently with the start of the F1 season and all that but will there be a video in tribute to Vic Elford? Keep up the great work!
@@rasmus8408 I don't know that. But speed trap data and there is a graph to of merc and Ferrari which showes merc using less engine as other constructors like am mcleran are way faster again using the same engine I can be wrong
@@rasmus8408 Mattia Binotto made it at the end of day 2 if i recall correctly . can't search it since i cannot see sky sports f1 videos in Romania on their site ....
There was talk about MB suspension design “squatting” in a particular way to cut more drag on the straights - wonder if they are still using that approach and they haven’t figured out the relationship with the new underbody aero
They aren’t allowed the extra suspension dampening devices that allowed that last year. Now it’s just conventional springs with a set rate of compression and rebound
@@tyler_bt3326 My old Morgan had sliding pillar suspension. It would have advantages in having no pull or pushrods and the fixed suspension arms optimised for aerodynamic efficiency. I think they still had them on the rocketship Aero 8.
Everyone talks about the porpoising effect and how difficult it is to cure (and I’m sure it is). I wonder what the old CART cars did? These had Venturi floors, did they not? I don’t think they had such a bad porpoising effect….??
Weren't they mostly just driving around ovals at a pretty constant speed though? I imagine their cars didn't have to be able to cope with "proper" tracks...
@@MASAo7 yeah absolutely and they’d be very smooth too since no one braked on the banking. They also did “road” races as well as a significant number of street circuits. There must be transferable learning - Adrian Newey served his time on CART cars and I’ve not heard much from RB drivers on their cars bouncing on their suspension.
Not an engineer, so I'm not sure about the legality in regulations, but why don't they have the wings attach to the suspension to act as a fulcrum and lever. The more down force generated, the more pressure applied upward on the suspension to help keep the car flat. Kinda of like a weight distribution hitch when towing a vehicle?
I think the reverse championship windtunnel time is starting to show its hands...ferrari are more sure of their design because of the extra time,while mercedes throw in more bold ideas
Hi 👋🏼 QUESTION. How do you suppose these new 2022 cars will perform in full wet conditions? I'm guessing lots of water on track can maybe impact how the floor generates down force in a way. Keep up the good work 💪🏻
So far everyone who is saying Mercedes should remain at the front are basing their analysis on prior years. Red Bull had the best car last year and had Mercedes not decided to burn through PUs would have walked away with both championships. I think we have to view their testing struggles to what happened in 2017. Had Red Bull or Ferrari produced better packages with more powerful PUs Mercedes would have been in real trouble that season. Even in 2018 had Ferrari showed up with their 2019 PU Mercedes would not have been close. I'd need to see proof of Mercedes solving their issues or to accept that they were running through experimental variations during testing as the reason they performed poorly in all situations. There was not a single lap during testing where Mercedes better than or even as good as McLaren, Ferrari, nor Red Bull.
I can’t forget Red Bull sniped a bunch of Mercedes folks last year . I don’t think this is sandbags but i so believe they will develop their concept much more before the first race. Can’t wait !
@@spiderwan299 the fact they’ve won the last 8 constructors and have had many F1 fans declaring Mercedes is the best car , to me shows a track record #intended of having the ability to develop their engineering concepts. It’s clear there are issues however they seem to have some overall reasons for the engineering decisions #concepts
@@dcrasta Hard to say since they have had a superior engine for such a long time in the hybrid era. There is an argument that excluding engine power, it was actually RB that made the best racing car in 2014, and Ferrari in 2017 and 2018. If we accept that possibility, that would put a massive dent in the idea that Mercedes are really good at developing their concept and were saved by their superior engine.
@@dcrasta Sure they deserve all the credit for their championships, both drivers and constructors. I'm just saying that a potential lack of engineering prowess could have been covered up by an overpowered engine. Kinda like how in Moto GP Ducati in early 2010s had a rocketship for an engine but were still beaten by the more nimble Yamaha. They nailed the engine, but not the agility.
Peter, please tell Craig to put his logo on drawings and technical analysis. I can see many accounts on Twitter taking his work without even referring to him or giving him the credit for producing the drawing. Even write up should written on power point with his logo then convert it to picture so no body copy his work without giving him the credit. I would sent him message directly but he is not allowing direct messaging on his account.
As a hard-core Mercedes n lewis fan I'm concerned about redbulls pace and how rapid they were in the last last hour of testing! Where were we! Well off the pace and sand bagging ..🤔I hope that was the case as we can't let Redbull run away with another championship! This is Lewis's year... so come on guys show em what you got in FP sessions next week n do us proud 👏 still we rise gentleman.🙏💪🏆
Trust me, the W13 is incredibly quick. Mercedes know what they're doing, it will be Sir Lewis or George on pole for the first race at Bahrain. Regards David.
Trust me, Iv been a hard core F1 fan for many years. Merc is the BEST team in the world in terms of their ability to quickly adapt to problems. As I posted above & ill mention it here. Many times in the past they were behind various teams during preseason testing & even slower then Red Bull at the beginning of 2021 due to the reg changes. But they were able to adapt very quickly & claw back the pace. I guarantee you that Merc will be just as fast as anyone, or FASTER, by the 2nd race. If not by race by the first race.
Testing times should not be taken too seriously. Most teams are not showing the maximum potential of their car. So we still dont know who is the fastest yet, but we can guess somewhat acurately: Top 3 - RB, Merc, Ferrari; Top 6 - Mclaren, Alpine, AT; Behind them - Aston, Williams; Last - Alfa, Haas. At least thats my guesswork. :)
Aah finally mate. It's almost pointless at this moment. I've been requesting for an audio boost since this series started and haven't gotten anybodys attention.
This is a shame because it would be easily fixed by putting a limiter on the audio track to remove the peaks and effectively boost the volume. Would only take about 10-20 seconds to fix this.
Before I begin, I don't feel like an expert in the topic. A few years ago, I have read an interesting article posted on LinkedIn by Willem Toet regarding the airflow through diffusers. The stable ride height seems to be critical for diffuser's performance. The changes of the distance in some cases were resulting in airflow circulation within the tunnels of the diffuser. I hope we will see the active suspension back in F1 as part of the solution. But could the teams add some bits to the diffuser tunnels as means to break up air circulation within if that was really the case?
Bro for me the real clue came after barcelona they seemed to have worse porpoise and weren’t really chasing lap times almost as if they are “testing” who would have thought 😂
Perhaps Mercedes has the best drag-reducing solution with their "no-sidepods solution, but it seems to me that the floor has now become very vulnerable. I honestly don't think it deserves the beauty price with that thin rod to make the floor stable. Curious how it will develop.
A question I have is with so much floor exposed ( more it appears with merc than others) doesn’t the risk at the first corner of every race increase the chance of floor damage? Without the side pods being a bumper from the challengers front wheel, doesn’t floor damage totally mess the aero?
THAT WAS A GREAT TECHNICAL UPDATE, WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE ON THAT GROUNDBREAKING HEAT EXCHANGERS TECHNOLOGY IN AN UPCOMING SHOW. MANY FEEL AND SO DO I THAT MERCEDES WILL BE VERY FOCUSED THIS YEAR AND THIS WILL BE SOMETHING TO SEE. I MUST SAY AGAIN THIS WAS A GREAT SHOW AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME !!!
Peter, I love how you compare Lewis and George's driving style at the end there. Please do more driving style analysis throughout the season.
100%
I haven't made it that far on the vid yet but 8 bet one if not both are really massssaging the car, lol peter knows a lot but is a clown at the same time
@@bullterriermolly5874 Odd calling him a clown whilst literally stating you haven't even seen that bit yet 🤦🏻♂️ Peak social media.
Great conversation! You're both giving us great perspective regarding questions on most of our minds! Thank you!
Best videos on Internet about F1 nowadays, by far. Keep up with the good work because it's absolutely delightfull see you guys. Thanks and greetings from Portugal!
Check out Kyle engineer
@@themiddleman9376 facts
100%
Best F1 inside insight comes IMHO from Michael Schmidt AKA Formel Schmidt, at Auto Motor und Sport. Very rational, experienced, no nonsense, neutral with no bias (Windsor's fanboyism towards Hamilton is almost shameless and like watching a one way bromance).
Too bad for many that Michael Schmidt only speaks German in his intervieuws.
Initially I wasn't sure but the more I see photos of the Mercedes, the more I like this stealth look.
Mercedes car Looking like a fighter jet.
Same here. Liking the aggressive stealth look.
So glad to see you both in the same room at the same time and together, sharing the same energy from friends being friends just before the interview into the interview. Nice work, love what you're doing. You're so good at it. So much info so easily available. GGs
Two very knowledgeable guys in F1 and a great rapport. Great videos! Thanks for the effort, hard work, and analysis that goes into making these vids!
I think they know exactly what they’re doing and we’re in for a shock at the weekend.
It wont be a shock because Mercedes is known for looking weaker in the Tests and than to be back on top in the regular Season.
Well if they do blitz the rest, I know one term boss that will make his feelings known
@@acelectricalsecurity Karen Horner
@@kebeiloesello9123
Fuck Mercedes and Crymilton
@@michaeltrumph121 KAren Horner, Helga Marko, Emilia Crashtappen are the worst crybabies of F1 history.
So listening to Kyle.Engineers (ex-Merc aerodynamicist) it sounds like the centerline cooling isn't ideal in modern F1 cars. Perhaps its changed since the old days, but it sounds like the boundary layer is really starting to be a problem where Merc have their sidepods, and that the conventional setup of high and wide is far superior. His take is that the sidepods had to be that shape to allow the downwashing winglet to be legal in the rule set (demands 2 y slices maximum for the bodywork so the sidepod can only make up one if they want a winglet as the other, thus it can only be sloped downwards). It seems like it isn't advantageous at all, he specifically addressed cooling problems as a difficulty with that setup, and that its more just taking a hit with the sidepods for the great benefit of the winglets producing a ton of downwash and outwash right where the cars have lost barge boards and the like, and right where the curl downforce is generated on the floor. Its also possible the winglet tip vortexes are beneficial downwashing along the car and floor edge, but thats more up in the air.
Of course he hasn't worked on the current cars and none of it is insider information or really anything beyond observing pictures, but given his expertise I put a fair bit of weight into his analysis.
Was also looking towards Kyle for that knowledge, he is a great contribution to the online youtube F1 fan environment
It seems its growing in size and popularity
I have to go back and watch his videos a few times to see them, they are quite overwhelming
I love Kyle Engineers. Some of it is hard to fully understand, but i always learn several things each episode. Kyle Engineers, Chainbear, and Peter Windsor with Scarbs is a nice trio of UA-cam education!
Kyle based his analysis on the 2017-2021 cars with conventional radiator layout. These new cars and newer technology require a rethink.
@@JacobVahrSvenningsen Hopefully he has some time to go over both Red Bull's and Mercedes's new package. I suppose he may wait until after the first race once they 'finalize' their concept.
@@uncleelias I am sure he is listening in
Nothing beats seeing a video with you and scarbs popping up on my subscription feed
They have spent ALL 3 days using vis Paint on the floor, theirs development pace look like they are developing a thing at a time, First the base of the car, then the New sidepod philosofy and now as i Said, they are focusing on the floor wich was one of the simpelst on the Grid in Bahrein. Thats what i IMAGINE they are doing EDIT: There are more things that lead me to think about this such as previous years operation style, but Thats mostly It
This is the best F1 UA-cam channel by a mile.
I was at IMTS in Chicago in 2018 and there was a 3D printed titanium rocket nozzle with through cooling which could be picked up with one hand, but it was half a meter long and probably 35cm wide. That a lot of metal to only weigh a couple kg. 3D printed heat exchangers have a lot of potential due to the fact that cooling efficiency is directly related to wetted surface area. I'd expect to find these things all over the place in the coming years.
do you know how much more expensive those 3D printed parts are compared to the conventional ones?
@@naufalkusumah2192 extremely. But the costs will come down. And the number of use cases will go up.
@@sheldoniusRex yes and no, creating new iterations of designs is easier with 3d printing. So yes, if they were to mass produce it would be much more expensive, but to create and refine new designs its much cheaper to 3d print.
@@johnk190 many geometries, especially in heat exchangers, are impossible to make in one piece, except for 3d printing. The rocket nozzle I was talking about is hourglass shaped with cooling channels running longitudinally through the walls. This is impossible to make from one piece of titanium using any other technique.
The firearms industry has started 3d printing silencers with gas channels which flow back on themselves out of inconel. Again they are severely weight constrained and need maximum surface area to maximize the cooling of flowing gas. These geometries are impossible to machine, and making them out of sections as an assembly makes the device too fragile for military use.
As the cost of 3d printing goes down I expect to see such heat exchangers become more widespread. Especially considering that automobiles and aircraft both benefit from weight savings, and are high value items which can justify the price impact if performance gains are sufficiently significant.
I don't understand engineering but get this idea across to redbulll bc the merc engine looks mighty. Other teams needs this cooling system
This is one of your best vids. Thanks! And one of the best about this weekend. I think Max said in Barcelona it was easier to drive behind a car.
Love both of your channels/videos, and always great to see both of you together!! Thanks for all the wonderful insights, information and chirps! Carry on rocking F1. Best regards from Johannesburg, South Africa.
Am I alone in having to double my volume to hear Scarbs speak? It's as though his mic isn't turned on.
Excellent video once again. The vast knowledge by both yourself and Scarbs. Usually spot on everytime. Keep it up guys I never miss a video
Never has the term , “ believe nothing of what you hear, and half of what you see” more relevant than in F1.
Flag drops , bullshit stops.
It's absolutely new for me that there was no reaction from Toto after the last testing day.
Zero-pods updates were proudly introduced by him but didn't show any major improvement.
Wonder what this tells us about the correlation of the windtunnel software.
He said he preferred the previous side pods they had.
@@moto967ful no he didn’t
One thing to add on 3D printing, for heat exchangers or any other application" is that you can make things that would be impossible in any other way. In this application I am thinking of the design of the fin matrix of the exchanger itself, instead of folded aluminium sheets, you could have any bends in any dimension all through the matrix.
I think this might be one of my favourite videos by you yet Peter. Great job to you and Scarbs! Keep them coming.
Great video chaps. Love the longer format. Look forward to the rest of the series!
I think Merc were just doing Testing.... Yes they have a few issues and some will be sorted out by the season opener.. Seeing that they have the best downforce in slower corners they will go really well at Monaco.
As soon as they sort out the bouncing they will go faster in the mid to high speed corners so they will be very competitive.
It isn’t downforce in slow corners but mechanical grip.
@@Goaltimer mechanical grip is needed at all corners and is much more important at slower corners. However slow corners still benefit from some downforce.
@@BNOVA how do you think this stacks up to something like RB who seem to be going all in on their design philosophy and testing multiple stuff at the same time? So far RB looks better.
@@suckieduckie Redbull and Ferrari do lol better and I expect them to be ahead come race weekend. However Mercedes seem. To be test a very wide variety of setups that then can learn from.
They have in recent years focused on tire performance a lot as that is the part of the car that meets the road. I suspect they are testing a lot with that as well as aero and suspension to see what works for them.
I suspect they have a lot of downforce but it seems to be peaky and that may be easy to solve or may take longer so expect to see a different floor next week to iron out some of the bouncing.
I am more worried for Ferrari as I am not sure how much scope thier design has updates. They may start solid but I am not sure how much they can improve the design due to how aggressive it is.
@@BNOVA That seems very plausible, thx for that.
When it comes to which team has fastest cars its "ALWAYS" the teams with the best overall engineering staff that come out on top. The budget cap wont stop the top teams having the best staff. Adrian Newey at Red Bull may be a genius but he cant do it alone. Merc have shown for many years they have one of the best engineering groups in racing. They were no where at the start of 2021 due to the reg changes but they caught back up quickly. Then remember back in 2018 when Ferrari looked dominant in preseason testing? Who won that year? Merc won Drivers & Constructors! If there is one team that can get on top of their problems & sort them out its Mercedes!
Point well made.
The “cheaters”
They also have more engineering strength which bypasses cost cap. Like Merc R&D which builds a compact radiator and then deputizes an employee to work for f1 team after it is developed.
They won 3 of the first 4 races last year? What do you mean they were no where? The two austrias were the only races they were no where near Red Bull.
@@yenneferofgyanvapi3965 How do you know Mercedes has more engineers, based upon what ?
Really enjoyed the longer video!
Thanks Scarbs.
Getting peak downforce is one thing... but when you have to spring it so stiff to get it to ride so low to work at peak numbers... but that then affects slower speed corner handling, they probably need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
Unless the high speed corner gains massively outweigh the low speed losses and the toll on the drivers, maybe they just need to back it off a bit and find a happy medium.
Its no wonder they would love the return of active suspension.
@Concrete Head You could be right. They can probably afford to.
Mercedes will suck at Monaco and rock the other circuits, as usual
Resonance between the suspension and the floor structure. Choking doesn't mean no more flow, choking means no more flow than what you have. Choking happens when a normal shock forms near transonic speeds, which happen a throat of the tunnels. The airflow that makes it around the strakes is the only mass of air that goes to the throat. Also when you have choked flow, downstream conditions have no influence on upstream conditions because of the normal shock that forms. Feeding a downstream jet will lower the pressure of the floor because the choked condition upstream will not allow more flow through unless the pressure at the inlet increases.
10:38 that's the feeling I get from the outset.
The merc car was just a proof of concept runner. they have a whole load of upgrades to come
Exactly, they would have had plans drawn up for upgrades already and will use the testing data to fine tune their upgrades ready for next week
They probably have but they need to speed up since the first race is coming soon
@@maartenmidden1651 Lucky they have a whole team to help them, they were probably manufacturing upgrades before the end of day 1
I'm so happy Scarbs has been put in the mainstream lately! I remember your video with him on the 2014 rules anf thinking wow, I want this insight weekly!
Quite right Peter those floor edges look like they have been testing the car on the public roads of Hertfordshire and Essex. Maybe speed humpsville USA Harpenden ? where no car is now safe .
Regarding the legal side I'm still fascinated that a "mirror stay" doesn't need to be connected to the mirror.
I like Scarbs but he seems to be defending the Mercedes design more and more these days, I also think the thing about those mirrors are not right
This guys explains it better if u want
ua-cam.com/users/KYLEDRIVES
@@timigs Obviously he is going to defend them because its fully legal. The youtube channel the other guy sent explains it perfectly. They are within the regulations.
@@timigs i mean alpha tauri have the same thing, and nobody seems to mind
I seen an interview with Lewis saying the car was not going to win races, strangely, he was trying hard to keep a big smile off his face, didn't look disappointed to me
Wow, best in depth analysis of the testing outcome I've seen. Keep it up guys!
Interesting that Scarbs came now where close to predicting that Mercedes would be not very good with this concept.
Make something radical. Force competition to expend resources to investigate. Level development field.
I’ve been going on around the Internet about how that Mercedes looks like some of the early to mid 70s F1 cars with its side pro shape all these new fans kept questioning me and asking what I was on about. nice to see that me being 21 years of age can have likeness with somebody as experienced in the sport as you. Just the way it gradually gets “fatter” towards the bottom and forms a more triangular shape really reminds me of the designs of old!
Old Brabham vibes with the body shaped like an tumblehome warship
Thanks Pete and Scarbs you guys are the best. Can't wait for the Ferrari Vid☺✌
As much as I doubt it’ll happen. Imagine teams like Williams and alpine were sandbagging and just blow merc/rbr/Ferrari out of the water and we get a ocon/Alonso/Albon/Latifi scrap or something. Unlikely, but I feel like it would be awesome if the rules worked perfectly and instead of “other teams” playing catch up, the “top 3” become the “other teams”, but can actually develop too and come later in the season or next year it’s something close to a 8 driver scrap for the title. Would be BEAUTIFUL, no matter who wins. I just used alpine and Williams at examples. Give me alpha tauri, Aston, haas, idc. Would be so cool to see new faces fighting for wins and champs.
KING SCARBOROUGH BABY!!! 😀😀😊😊😆😆😄😄😃😃
The thing I don't understand is with the millions of F1 fans out there why Pete doesn't have more subscribers.
Top video as per
Thanks for this video. Reg the rake on Redbull, I noticed it too but later I was able to find similar rake on Mercedes as well. But it hasn't solved the bouncing yet 😅
Scarbs is the man! Thanks.
This might be the ultimate sandbag. Look at the floor edge completely flat , no flick-ups, no vortex generators, no cut-outs. They will show up with a magic floor and it will all "Join Together with the Band". I could not help The Who reference. They will pick up a a second to a second and a half of time. It will be a "Magic Bus".
The fact that the drafting is really able to be used is a lot on the drive getting over denial of not having it an not having used it an knowing hey I can go up here an run in an sling shot out....so the first race...or pack style practice is gonna make a big show of it...but I have already seen 4 to 5 instances where drivers have been able to race around each other quite a shock to themselves....I think the young drivers who just got here from less aero assisted f2 or f3 cars will have some of that experience to remember what do guys think.....thanks again to both yall...either way can u feel the excitement building already...place your bets.....oh sorry no odds have been sorta. Bets are on hold.....mid season at least
indeed. genius is to try not just the safe options but also wild crazy ideas that may have potential...
The company mentioned is Reaction Engines (not Rockets) and one of their specialties are heat exchangers which are using extremely thin tubes. So parts of it may be 3D-printed, but the ‚cool‘ part is the tubes and their manufacturing.
funny how that was the most interesting thing on the video but he got interrupted right there
Reaction Engines heat exchangers are long but small diameter. The issue is getting enough airflow through the core.
@@Dave5843-d9m There's no reason why they couldn't built them to different dimensions.
But I think you have to agree that, while the merc sidepods are legal, it wasn't really the FIA's intention to create this kind of shape. From what I understand, what allowed Merc to create this shape is that the sidepods don't bulge out and back in when viewed from up to down. Instead, they unly "bulge" out until they meet the floor. And as far as I understand it, this allows them to have an additional "degree of freedom" that was necessary to cover the crash side structure that they wouldn't have had with a normal side pod shape. (I.e., one that bulges out and back in at the bottom)
At least thats how I understand it. Kyle.Engineers created a nice video about this topic:
ua-cam.com/video/pP6T1comENg/v-deo.html
I thought the biggest legality question were about the vanes next to the mirror stays, I thought I saw Mattia Binotto talk about that.
Mereces usually like to sandbagg in more ways as possible! I would do that too! (Lets hope is just that)
Thankyou Peter was waiting to listen to for a while now ☺️🔝😊🇮🇳
Sensible stuff, as always. Will be interesting to see if RBs front suspension layout turns out as ‘the’ trick (in combination with the aero package, naturally). That one will be difficult for the others to replicate.
What about the mirrors sitting on those aero wings? Binotto says they can’t be aero devices, Is it legal?
Thank you so much for touching on the engine-related aspects of what the teams have done or could be doing. As much so much was seen and heard about sidepods, porpoising, floors, downforce, aerodynamics and the like over the three days of the tests, there was virtually nothing seen, said or written about the power units behind the cars. Why was this? What actually has happened or is taking place on the power unit front? Surely, with engine development set to be be locked down for development through to 2025, this must have been a crucial area of work by the teams. One thinks for instance of Ferrari (what steps forward did they effect in the ground they seem to have regained since their debacles of 2019 which evidently related to power unit issues); Red Bull (with Honda's pull out and their own engine plant not yet fully operational, what engine are they running?); Mercedes (will the "spicy engine" still be used?); and so on. I was also surprised that, with the governance and political issues swirling around the sport, there seemed to be even a conspiracy of silence on those issues. Nothing said about the sacking of Michael Masi or what is happening with him still in the sport; nothing about the interim regulatory measures that have been put in place or been promised; nothing about the investigations following the Abu Dhabi fiasco which should have been completed by now; nothing about how the new Mohammed Sulayman is doing in general. These questions are clearly just as important for the racing and future of the sport at large, in some respects even more so, as are sidepod or floor innovations. Why was there what even looked like a conspiracy of silence over these questions?
Great video and wealth of knowledge
I do think car hitting bottom on track starts a little bounce that gives a suction starting occilation...that just gets the pourpoise going an then the speed comes in that bring s the cars down with a bump that starts a chain of bouncing first unseen an then it grows with a bump in the right place
The active suspension ground effect cars bounced horribly. Nigel Mansell said it’s fast but the vibration so bad the driver literally can’t see. It took a long time to get it sorted.
Great stuff. Better than all the hyped “nothing” on main stream F1 media. Love the tech details
20 min video 😍 thanks guys great chat 👍
Love it 👊👍
all very interesting, however we shouldn't be talking about this design for the MB as those so called rearview mirror supports are illegal as are clearly wings to support the air flow to the rear of the car. Change my mind!
I'm a (chartered) engineer with a masters and my own consultancy company (not to sound too grand....). But these guys seem to me to be extraordinarily expert in this very highly technical niche of f1 technical knowledge and understanding. So, so impressive....
I wonder how much better F1 would be if it's addiction to 'aero' could be broken?
Very, very, much better would be my bet.
Ban all 'aero' I say, but for a strictly regulated simple single-plane front and rear wing mounted fore and aft of the axel lines.
Completely agree . Give them a basic , tightly controlled package . No one cares about aero , it’s ruined F 1
Thanks. Well said.
Mercedes is almost always starting their new season on the backfoot from having fought tothe very end of the prior season fighting for championships... but they inevitably have the talent and resources to stay in contention for early race wins. It's not sandbagging when they still have to put the effort in. I suppose it is the cost of success.
They basically shut it down towards the end and began working on next year car every year of the hybrid era. Last year the was the exception. They fought for the constructors title.
They just like crying, Lewis in particular that means that everything is perfect but you have to give the impression that you tell them what to do and now the car is much better.
Same story at the start of every new season.
Boring!!!
@@51bikerboy If they said 'we're gonna win' every year, you'd still say it was the same and boring. They all do it, lol
Enjoying the content but struggling to hear (decided I wanted to watch it out of the house) seems other channels I have no problem. May there’s something in your settings when you upload.....others don’t seem to have mentioned it so maybe not an issue but thought I would highlight incase you wanted to look into it
Wouldn't the only way of fixing the porpoise is to reduce the maximum intake, compromising maximum performance for the ease of driving.
You know it's the rich energy shilling that annoys me Peter because I know you're just as much as a pure fan as me. Even so I am super excited bro!
Definitely a Merc/Hamilton channel 😎
I know you're probably busy as all hell currently with the start of the F1 season and all that but will there be a video in tribute to Vic Elford? Keep up the great work!
Ferrari had a comment about it also: that Merc are using the least engine of everyone but they are still the best in slow corners
Best at porpoising
Where can I find that comment?
@@rasmus8408 I don't know that. But speed trap data and there is a graph to of merc and Ferrari which showes merc using less engine as other constructors like am mcleran are way faster again using the same engine
I can be wrong
@@AnuragSingh-em9tl Do you know where I can find that? Sorry if I’m annoying, I’m just genuinely interested in looking at it🤗
@@rasmus8408 Mattia Binotto made it at the end of day 2 if i recall correctly . can't search it since i cannot see sky sports f1 videos in Romania on their site ....
There was talk about MB suspension design “squatting” in a particular way to cut more drag on the straights - wonder if they are still using that approach and they haven’t figured out the relationship with the new underbody aero
I think that was banned this year.
They aren’t allowed the extra suspension dampening devices that allowed that last year. Now it’s just conventional springs with a set rate of compression and rebound
@@tyler_bt3326 My old Morgan had sliding pillar suspension. It would have advantages in having no pull or pushrods and the fixed suspension arms optimised for aerodynamic efficiency. I think they still had them on the rocketship Aero 8.
All the Mercedes talk is smoke .probably gonna be up there fighting for 1-2 again.thks for the discussion
Everyone talks about the porpoising effect and how difficult it is to cure (and I’m sure it is). I wonder what the old CART cars did? These had Venturi floors, did they not? I don’t think they had such a bad porpoising effect….??
Weren't they mostly just driving around ovals at a pretty constant speed though? I imagine their cars didn't have to be able to cope with "proper" tracks...
@@MASAo7 yeah absolutely and they’d be very smooth too since no one braked on the banking. They also did “road” races as well as a significant number of street circuits. There must be transferable learning - Adrian Newey served his time on CART cars and I’ve not heard much from RB drivers on their cars bouncing on their suspension.
@@SilverfoxThe Aha actually didn't know Newey worked on karts. Things suddenly feel very rosy for RB knowing that.
Not an engineer, so I'm not sure about the legality in regulations, but why don't they have the wings attach to the suspension to act as a fulcrum and lever. The more down force generated, the more pressure applied upward on the suspension to help keep the car flat. Kinda of like a weight distribution hitch when towing a vehicle?
The merc reminds me of the trapezoid..was it a Gordon Murray design at Brabham??
I think the reverse championship windtunnel time is starting to show its hands...ferrari are more sure of their design because of the extra time,while mercedes throw in more bold ideas
Not really
Two Legends
Hi 👋🏼 QUESTION. How do you suppose these new 2022 cars will perform in full wet conditions?
I'm guessing lots of water on track can maybe impact how the floor generates down force in a way.
Keep up the good work 💪🏻
Considering the laptimes HAAS got to achieve, I do hope for Redbull, that Max's times were not him pushing the RBR at all.
It wasn't, they addressed that In interviews after testing.
Frogs cant drive cars.
So far everyone who is saying Mercedes should remain at the front are basing their analysis on prior years. Red Bull had the best car last year and had Mercedes not decided to burn through PUs would have walked away with both championships. I think we have to view their testing struggles to what happened in 2017. Had Red Bull or Ferrari produced better packages with more powerful PUs Mercedes would have been in real trouble that season. Even in 2018 had Ferrari showed up with their 2019 PU Mercedes would not have been close.
I'd need to see proof of Mercedes solving their issues or to accept that they were running through experimental variations during testing as the reason they performed poorly in all situations. There was not a single lap during testing where Mercedes better than or even as good as McLaren, Ferrari, nor Red Bull.
I can’t forget Red Bull sniped a bunch of Mercedes folks last year . I don’t think this is sandbags but i so believe they will develop their concept much more before the first race. Can’t wait !
What makes you think they will. I heard that they are bringing a new floor for Bahrain to help with the porpoising problems they are having.
@@spiderwan299 the fact they’ve won the last 8 constructors and have had many F1 fans declaring Mercedes is the best car , to me shows a track record #intended of having the ability to develop their engineering concepts. It’s clear there are issues however they seem to have some overall reasons for the engineering decisions #concepts
@@dcrasta Hard to say since they have had a superior engine for such a long time in the hybrid era. There is an argument that excluding engine power, it was actually RB that made the best racing car in 2014, and Ferrari in 2017 and 2018. If we accept that possibility, that would put a massive dent in the idea that Mercedes are really good at developing their concept and were saved by their superior engine.
@@suckieduckie argue all you want . 8 championships speaks for itself . I’ll just give them credit for being champions.
@@dcrasta Sure they deserve all the credit for their championships, both drivers and constructors. I'm just saying that a potential lack of engineering prowess could have been covered up by an overpowered engine. Kinda like how in Moto GP Ducati in early 2010s had a rocketship for an engine but were still beaten by the more nimble Yamaha. They nailed the engine, but not the agility.
Peter, please tell Craig to put his logo on drawings and technical analysis. I can see many accounts on Twitter taking his work without even referring to him or giving him the credit for producing the drawing.
Even write up should written on power point with his logo then convert it to picture so no body copy his work without giving him the credit.
I would sent him message directly but he is not allowing direct messaging on his account.
As a hard-core Mercedes n lewis fan I'm concerned about redbulls pace and how rapid they were in the last last hour of testing! Where were we! Well off the pace and sand bagging ..🤔I hope that was the case as we can't let Redbull run away with another championship! This is Lewis's year... so come on guys show em what you got in FP sessions next week n do us proud 👏 still we rise gentleman.🙏💪🏆
Trust me, the W13 is incredibly quick. Mercedes know what they're doing, it will be Sir Lewis or George on pole for the first race at Bahrain. Regards David.
Lewis's year 🤭 I'd love to see Ferrari Battle it out with sainz and leclerc going at each other for the championship
@@davidbrown8517 literally applied: "source trust me bro"
Trust me, Iv been a hard core F1 fan for many years. Merc is the BEST team in the world in terms of their ability to quickly adapt to problems. As I posted above & ill mention it here. Many times in the past they were behind various teams during preseason testing & even slower then Red Bull at the beginning of 2021 due to the reg changes. But they were able to adapt very quickly & claw back the pace. I guarantee you that Merc will be just as fast as anyone, or FASTER, by the 2nd race. If not by race by the first race.
Testing times should not be taken too seriously. Most teams are not showing the maximum potential of their car. So we still dont know who is the fastest yet, but we can guess somewhat acurately: Top 3 - RB, Merc, Ferrari; Top 6 - Mclaren, Alpine, AT; Behind them - Aston, Williams; Last - Alfa, Haas. At least thats my guesswork. :)
Centre of pressure is way too aft, needs to closer to the centre of gravity (further forward)
More of it please 🙏🏾 🥲
Great content as always, but the sound level is way too low.
Aah finally mate. It's almost pointless at this moment. I've been requesting for an audio boost since this series started and haven't gotten anybodys attention.
This is a shame because it would be easily fixed by putting a limiter on the audio track to remove the peaks and effectively boost the volume.
Would only take about 10-20 seconds to fix this.
Before I begin, I don't feel like an expert in the topic. A few years ago, I have read an interesting article posted on LinkedIn by Willem Toet regarding the airflow through diffusers. The stable ride height seems to be critical for diffuser's performance. The changes of the distance in some cases were resulting in airflow circulation within the tunnels of the diffuser. I hope we will see the active suspension back in F1 as part of the solution. But could the teams add some bits to the diffuser tunnels as means to break up air circulation within if that was really the case?
Bro for me the real clue came after barcelona they seemed to have worse porpoise and weren’t really chasing lap times almost as if they are “testing” who would have thought 😂
Perhaps Mercedes has the best drag-reducing solution with their "no-sidepods solution, but it seems to me that the floor has now become very vulnerable. I honestly don't think it deserves the beauty price with that thin rod to make the floor stable. Curious how it will develop.
We keep seeing snippets of talks with scarbs and other F1 engineers/experts.
Is there some site I’m missing with full vids? Behind a paywall?
A question I have is with so much floor exposed ( more it appears with merc than others) doesn’t the risk at the first corner of every race increase the chance of floor damage? Without the side pods being a bumper from the challengers front wheel, doesn’t floor damage totally mess the aero?
But the edge of all cars is floor. big sidepod or no sidepod makes no difference
And a few punctures
Big fan, from India 🇮🇳
What was F1 rule specifically pointing at no skirts....what was that reason for....they sounded quite aware of no skirting...what was the reason
Merc = F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter
Gratis talk and insight, is in me or is the sound volume pretty low?
Flexing of the floor is said to be a good candidate for the cars bouncing.
THAT WAS A GREAT TECHNICAL UPDATE, WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE ON THAT GROUNDBREAKING HEAT EXCHANGERS TECHNOLOGY IN AN UPCOMING SHOW. MANY FEEL AND SO DO I THAT MERCEDES WILL BE VERY FOCUSED THIS YEAR AND THIS WILL BE SOMETHING TO SEE. I MUST SAY AGAIN THIS WAS A GREAT SHOW AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME !!!
Dunno why I’ve only subscribed now 🤦🏾♂️
Could they curve up the edge of the floor near to the rear tires ? So will be flat at high speed?