Auction off all the school properties in California and hand out vouchers. Let free market competition decide which schools are good or bad and how much compensation teachers get.
All the people do is say that they want it to be better. Well, it's never going to get better. Public schools have low or no incentive to get better. The fault lies in the structure of the system. Governmental systems simply fail to provide quality goods or services. Extraordinary staff members can do great work in some public schools, but, most teachers and staff respond to personal incentive like your average person. With public schools, you can do the bare minimum and keep your job.
Yeah but even in mainstream classes in public high schools, they still don't teach you anything, a guy I know who went to a private middle school and then went public when he got to HS, the stuff he learned at the private school in 6th grade, he learned the same stuff in the 9th grade public school.
@Loathomar "It is easier to teach a class of 40 good students then 20 troubled ones. How do you solve that, not send troubled kids to school?" One word - taser.
want your kids to get a better education? dont send them to a shitty public school in a poor, crime ridden suburb and dont expect a school in that area to have the capacity to improve conditions
@DarthKap I was talking about voucher schools. If some city, let's say Los Angeles, decided to have a city-wide voucher program (this has never happened before) then all types of competition would pop up. It would be like your choice of places to eat - fast food, mexican, chinese - there'd be a wide variety of private schools competing for vouchers. Obviously disruptive students wouldn't be accepted at many of them, but some would - that's the beauty of competition.
@Loathomar The money should follow the child. They could give special voucher for children that have special needs. The administration of vouchers could be adjusted based on trial and error.
@alvincay100 Public schools in Compton are in the 6% of CA school, meaning 94% of all schools in CA are better then Public schools in Compton. I went to public school in CA and my HS had over a 50% college attendance, though I don't know its drop out rate. The problem that you describe is not a public school monopoly problem, be a general mandatory school problem. If there was a private/charter school, there is no reason you could not have a 50% drop out rate just like with public.
I agree with the contents of the Video and the parents for doing what they can. But, education is not a "right". It's a service that needs to be provided. And best provided with market forces.
@robertmike57 Considering that the kids in the Compton schools are 50 times more likely to drop out than go to college, i can't really see how any school can do worse.
@megagagnon1 What ever the price is, $12 to 28K makes it better for using 75% of the total costs as vouchers would seem to work better. This would allow new charter schools with reasonable prices but still allow public schools to have more money per student. It seems like a win/win. If the charter schools works well then we can change the system and end public schools altogether.
@alvincay100 "The drop out rate is largely related to parenting. Having charter schools will not fix the problem of drop outs". Read about the charter schools in New Orleans. Same parents, same children, much better performance. Plus the parents and students loved the new charter schools. Their public schools were broken, but luckily hurricane Katrina destroyed them. They got to start from scratch.
@successfulbuild - The system that's currently used in Southern Los Angeles isn't among these 80% that do as badly or worse than the system that they're competing against. They haven't been found guilty of improprieties. I would be for regulation that holds those guilty of improprieties civilly responsible, and not merely the school itself. "Market forces" don't always drive products to the bottom line, as Private Schools consistently outperform Public and Charters.
I'm tired of hearing people say they have "rights" to this or that. They have privileges! See Michael Badnarik to be schooled on your so-called "rights": watch?v=t26ENNxHiPg
I'm sure the public schools in Compton aren't the best, but obviously a 50% drop out rate mostly reflects poor parenting in the neighborhood. That's the problem with the public school monopoly: the 50% that do graduate are forced to go to school with the 50% that drop out and are a nuisance in the classroom.
@MrWatchdawg77 Yeah it's a personal responsibility but it is a right if you are a minor, the main problem with public school education is that a lot of the times they don't teach you the grade level work you are suppose to be learning, I was in special ed classes in high school and it was literally like 5th grade shit they taught us, what good is teaching 5th grade work to high schoolers when it comes to preparing them for college??. NOTHING!!!!
Ya let's not reduce inequality of wealth distribution or create a real social safety net or cheap university educations or regulating advertising and marketing to children or stop subsidizing food that has 0 nutrition and a million carcinogens/hormones/antibiotics/other nasty shit. No no no no no no, let's pretend that none of these things are a problem in terms of becoming an intellectual cripple and instead let's give parents the illusion of choice in some new way that makes us all feel good.
A study by Standford University showed that 80% of Charter schools performed as bad or worse than their public school counter parts. Many charter school systems have collapsed in some areas as they have been found to have been engaging in fraud (such as graduating students without the required credits needed to graduate, passing them along, and so on), leaving ppl. uneducated. _ Market forces also require teachers to work long hours, which has been proven to be an unsustainable mechanism.
Okay, I'm torn. I'm all for school choice and better education. I'm against the statement "education is a right" and saying people don't need an ID to prove who they are. Even illegal immigrants should have ID to show who they are. It's a tough one here for me.
What percentage that should be is questionable. 75%, so if half the children leave the school then gets 50% more funding per child, so you could have classroom sizes halved? We spend around ~$10,000 per child per year on K-12 on average, would $7,500 a year be enough for a reasonable private school? Catholic schools average $6,018, Non-Sectarian $17,316, but how much of that is from really high end rich kids schools?
Contrast this with the Union mantra of "..it's for the children" whenever they are trying to blackmail the voters into giving up more hard earned money. Unions have got to be broken and real responsibility put in place. Lesson in Irony#1 - "Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found"
I wish I would have had a charter school in the 70s. I quit in my Jr yr because I was not leading anything. I train my self. But did not get some of the jobs I should have because I did not have the right sheepskin.
@robertmike57 I would ask the main question, which is how where the school before the Charter schools took over. I mean often you get a Charter school when the normal schools fail. The Compton schools has a 50% dropout and 1% college rate, the charter school is not going to come to this school and be better then the average CA school, but if those rates change to a 40% drop out rate and a 3% college rate, isn't that success? Yet, it would still be in the lowest 1/5 of schools.
@cloudberry121 Have you noticed the Taj Mahol schools they are building? I think it was in that area of CA where they built one school that cost half a BILLION to build.
@megagagnon1 after just 10 years (or maybe even less) the new system would be in place - all kinds of schools needed by customers from preschool to university. High quality for much lower prices. Next step - health care.
@Loathomar The drop out rate is largely related to parenting. Having charter schools will not fix the problem of drop outs, we agree on that. However, charter schools will allow for schools to be selective in taking students and parents to be selective with the school they send their kids to. This should help to sort out problem students from those more serious about education. So, a monopoly is part of the problem. School should not be mandatory either, but that will never happen.
@robertmike57 Celerity hasn't taken over yet so i don't know what you're talking about. "If the petitions are certified as expected, Celerity would take over administration of McKinley as early as next summer. About 500 students are enrolled at the school, which serves kindergarten through fifth grade." 3 months to go.
@Loathomar There is a reason I used ‘often’ vs always. Not everything teachers unions ask for is wrong but they should refrain from using “it’s good for the students” to justifify all of their demands. To contrast your example: Paying every teacher $1M/year would make teachers very happy. Would it improve the results in their schools? No. For decades we have increased spending in schools and the results have been worse. Clearly the argument to just add $ has proven not to be the solution.
@megagagnon1 Right, the problem is that no school will take disruptive and disabled children if everyone is just given the same vouch and schools can choose their children. You could allow children to have a percentage of the money that public schools get and then as most of the best students leave, the remainder will get more funding per child. This should in theory create a natural equilibrium, so as more students leave the school has more money per child and gets better.
What needs to happen is for government to function in favor of the people, not the unions or public school employees. There is no balance between the two. The school employees should make a decent living, and (heaven forbid) perform to expectations, or find other work. The students should be expected to be... students! More hard learning, such as math, reading, real history, etc, and fewer of the touchy feely, politically motivated "subjects." And get the feds out of education.
I fully agree with the parents having the POWER to get the school in shape but that one legislator who kept using the word "right" was very wrong. It is not a "right", it is a power. I really wish people, especially legislators would stop badly abusing the meaning of the word "right" in terms of the American constitution and our founding principles. If legislators are badly damaging the meaning of this word, it is little wonder that the public routinely confuses the meaning as well. -
Listen to how uneducated these parents are. If they want their kids to have a chance, they should have sought out their own education. Nobody cares about anyone who is poor and lives in a bad neighborhood. Its the truth. We need to do better for our kids!
@megagagnon1 I'm still not sold on it. As much as I agree with you that disruptive kids should be kicked out of schools, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
@Loathomar Funny how you mentioned teacher's salary but didn't mention the benefits. I guess those benefits in California are weak, right? By chance, have you seen the movie "Waiting for Superman" and are you familiar with the dance of the lemons?
It is also another of Ben Austin lies that the school was unsuccessful to get sufficient petitions to rescind. The truth is that most of us who signed the petition did find out how we were deceived by parent revolution and did rescind our petition. This is the real reason why they took the district to court. THe "revolution" couldn't afford to have more people rescinding their signatures.
The question of if schools can choose students and the ability to kick out kids, is what I think is the most challenging part of vouchers. Allowing schools to choose there students will make for a few great school and a few shitty schools and very little in the middle which seems very unfair to those in the shitty school. If you don't let school choose and it is a first come first sever/lottery, then you need to restrict the ability to expel students, else I expel every bad or slow kid.
@ETicketM True, but teachers pay is not the problem either as it is not like our best and brightness are fighting for these "high paying" teachers jobs. Generally, we hear about teacher shortages and not a surplus of teachers. The law of supple and demand tells us that the pay is either right or too low. Increasing teachers pay and allowing bad teachers to be fired would have a very good in pact on school, as getting and keeping a teaching job would become competitive.
I like reasons, but there wrong about public schools. Holding teachers accountable, but not parents or students is foolish. Anyone who thinks teachers are the problem need to spend one day in the classroom of one of these failing schools. The problem will present itself very quickly. Public school classrooms are full of disrespectuful students who could care less about education. Charter schools wont fix a culture the treats schools like daycares.
perhaps if we stopped paying pointless, pencil pushing administrators twice (and sometimes more than twice) what the teachers are paid, we'd have more money to spend on things that matter. like higher quality teachers, better equipment and facilities (not for sports, for science and computer labs) and a richer clubs scene on campus.
@jkmatt1 let's give them a chance. Charters can't possibly be worse than public schools. Change is good. Why are you afraid of change. Poor people in crappy district deserve their own Hope & Change (TM).
@robertmike57 To be fair, Ben Austin did graduate of UC Berkeley and Georgetown Law School. $200,000 would seem a very reasonable salary. Median private sector salary for Georgetown Law School grads is $160,000.
@Loathomar Ok, here's fair: I don't give a shit about what Ben Austin could make for a Wall Street firm. Just what does a Georgetown Law degree have to do with education? Shows you're smart, doesn't otherwise show shit. If Austin wants private sector money, let him go to the private sector, now he's getting taxpayer money that could be used to educate students at Celerity schools, he's overhead at Celerity that public schools don't have.
@Loathomar Disruptive and disabled children are a tough problem for any school. You think the public schools are doing a good job with them? Not hardly. So i'd be perfectly happy to see how well private schools do handling such a problem. Unfortunately the public school monopoly doesn't want to see that happen - they want the status quo for very selfish reasons.
@ggadguy i agree, they dont have the right to a great education, but they should have a choice between schools that provide the education. i think that would have been a better way to state it. competition/choice is always better than no choice, its just whether you make the absolute best choice in the matter.
Just gonna say, a quality education is not actually a human right. You have the right to pursue an education, but it's not just going to be given to you for free. Someone has to work and pay for that education to take place.
@Loathomar ParentRevolution has a YT channel, there's a blogger who's pointed out the info I claimed., rsdathene, i believe. Anyway, I have never seen a charter School funded only by vouchers that was worth shit, especially in my state, they're all at the bottom on test scores.
@ETicketM Clear the polar opposite is not true. Killing all teachers would be inherently bad for teachers and students, clearly. Generally, what is good for teachers is good for students, happier workers are better workers in general, but this also not the case for all the time. The clearest would be that it is nearly impossible to fire a bad teacher. This is good for teachers (at least the bad ones) and bad for students and one of the major issues of the system.
Let's think about it... while he still was a member of the school board, Ben Austin admited that schools were designed to fail. He was in the same body that designed the educational system to fail. He is an accomplice to all the failing schools. Public schools that have succeeded are the brave ones that went against what his school board dictated.
What about those of parents who were sued by parent revolution for choosing to protect our children's right to a public education as opposed to a charter school.
@ShatterNWO First off, you offer no clear definition of either a police or nanny state. Second, I never even suggested involving the police. Third, the idea that it is preferable to have all these problems instead of enacting and enforcing common sense regulation is foolish. Your rhetoric is transparent and unfounded. There is evidence that each of these factors contributes to cognitive deficits in various ways.
@jkmatt1 If you took away unions from education you would make it easier to get rid of those teachers that did not perform their jobs correctly, and to reward those that did properly. Stress and abuse come to you no matter what job you perform, to use it as an excuse to demand more money from american citizens is ridiculous.
@milesbennettdyson ...you are right, I was never taught the difference, I had to learn it on my own...and fyi communism IS a form of socialism.......so, having a local school board is a way to have accountablity isn't that what they did in Compton? voted to change the status quo??? i propose you end the DEPT of EDUCATION as a start and not look to charter schools as the ONLY choice...
@jkmatt1 you're full of it. Working people don't always hate unions, though they should. Unions are there to keep the main bulk of society from working in their field.. to keep competition down. they are not there to help people.. most things that workers have received via union bargaining would have been (and in most cases already were) coming into being. ford went to the 5 day work week and the 10 hour day (down from 12 - 16) before unions were anywhere near them.
@oldtimefreedom They're not as good as giving parents real choice, aka give them their tax money back, but they are better than the district model which is 100% communist.
A system of "competitive, free-market" schools also collapsed in the UK. _ Ultimately what matters is the methodology that works. "Market forces" always drive products to the bottom line. Always.
Which means they make it cheaper, and better quality to outcompete their competitors, so bottom line is a good thing, not a bad thing. If there’s no bottom line there’s no incentive to do a good job.
@theshaggyshow Teaching is not really a job that anyone gets into for the money. The average salary is $59,825, and that is a whole $3,000 above the average salary in CA. Sounds good right? But that takes everyone in to account, but not everyone in CA has a four year college degree, in fact 27.2% of Americans have a College degree. Teachers, like all jobs, have a range of political views. There is no requirement to be liberal to get a teaching job.
@oldtimefreedom And you obviously didn't learn much--In a socialist economy, the government regulates all commerce and industry to avoid wage disparities; in a communist economy, all goods are held as common property to be used by the collective at need--a radically decentralized and localized movement. That's why communism has yet to be implemented except on the very small scale (monasteries, co-ops, etc.), because it is essentially SMALL in influence.
Funny thing is that the majority of those parents displayed in this video and many of the parents of the Revolution kept their children at McKinley even after Celerity opened around the corner. Where they really interested in giving their students such better education? If that were so, they would have sent them there, but they kept them at McKinley. The only difference is that the poor children were scarred with the experienced afforded to them by parent revolution.
@Loathomar Special needs gaming the system also already happens in public schools. And when i say free market, i mean free - they can kick out kids if they so choose. Just like any business "we reserve the right to refuse service".
@robertmike57 See, you made a bunch of claims and I asked you for proof of your claims. I did not claim Celerity schools are great, I only asked you for some proof that your claims are, in any way true. You did not. Your only fact is that a CEO got paid less the $200K, which tells us nothing.
@megagagnon1 I think money should follow the children if schools had no say in who comes to there school and where unable to easily kick out a child. The special needs is though, if you just give more to children who have been declared to have "special needs" then you end up with a massive over diagnosis of "special needs". You could fund "special needs" classrooms separately, so that is does not advantage those child who are trying to "game the system".
@robertmike57 can you verify this with documentation that proves the deceitful actions of this charter school/movement. also, if what you say is true that still doesnt prove that having competitive schools is a bad thing choice is always better than no choice though the choice you make might not be the absolute best one.
@robertmike57 I am not saying he is a great guy or the man for the job, but his pay is not unreasonable high for his eduction, experience and job. He could be a great leader for all I know, and total worth his salary times 10. Or he could be totally useless and not worth anything, I really don't know. But I can say his salary seems to fit his eduction, experience and job.
@megagagnon1 I can make a great school for reasonable cheap, I start with only taking smartest kids with motivated parents and then kick out any trouble makers right away. There, I'm done. Now you trying to make a good school at the same price per child with kids from troubled homes, with learning disabilities and the ones I kick out. It is easier to teach a class of 40 good students then 20 troubled ones. How do you solve that, not send troubled kids to school?
@theshaggyshow Google! Never heard of it! :P I plan on homeschooling, charter schools provide alternative choices to parents, and choice is what I'm interested in. Since I'm perfectly capable of finding/googling the information myself, the question was intended more as a subtle comment on the report done by Reason.tv Reason.tv is providing valuable information, but listing the other 12 states would have been more informative and better reporting. My comment was intended for Reason.tv
@robertmike57 Well i don't know Celerity's reputation, but i would be cautious about believing someone's opinion, because that person could very well have an agenda. I believe in vouchers and open competition because over time people would know how good or bad a school is, and they can make their choices accordingly. With bad public schools, you're stuck, you've got no choice (lower income people who don't have the means to move).
The end of the first year is here. As it turns out, according to the department of education, there is a lie here. Celerity schools are not outperforming district schools. Sirius Celerity scored no better than McKinley Elementary. Laurel Elementary, a school within the Compton Unified Schools scored an API of over 900. The average of the Celerity schools was around the 800 range as well. It is time this so called reason.tv to stop being so obsessed with topics.
We need more teachers unions. Private schools should be banned if they aren't represented by teachers unions. It's obvious to me that the verdict is in - any school with a teachers union or funded through public monies is a sure fire winner. I love seeing parents get their freedom of choice = Either it's the district school you live near, or you get arrested for truancy. We are the greatest country God has ever given the planet, and it's the teachers unions that do the work of the Lord.
Let's see, you are blaming an elementary school for the students' failure in high school. Right? There is a huge mistake. Once the students leave elementary, they still have 6 years where schools or parents go wrong. Did you investigate the situation at the local high school? no.
Auction off all the school properties in California and hand out vouchers. Let free market competition decide which schools are good or bad and how much compensation teachers get.
All the people do is say that they want it to be better. Well, it's never going to get better. Public schools have low or no incentive to get better. The fault lies in the structure of the system. Governmental systems simply fail to provide quality goods or services. Extraordinary staff members can do great work in some public schools, but, most teachers and staff respond to personal incentive like your average person. With public schools, you can do the bare minimum and keep your job.
So true, this is always the difference between public and private.
Yeah but even in mainstream classes in public high schools, they still don't teach you anything, a guy I know who went to a private middle school and then went public when he got to HS, the stuff he learned at the private school in 6th grade, he learned the same stuff in the 9th grade public school.
@Loathomar "It is easier to teach a class of 40 good students then 20 troubled ones. How do you solve that, not send troubled kids to school?" One word - taser.
Teachers think that anything that is good for them is inherently good for students. Sadly the polar opposite is often the case.
want your kids to get a better education?
dont send them to a shitty public school in a poor, crime ridden suburb
and dont expect a school in that area to have the capacity to improve conditions
@DarthKap I was talking about voucher schools. If some city, let's say Los Angeles, decided to have a city-wide voucher program (this has never happened before) then all types of competition would pop up. It would be like your choice of places to eat - fast food, mexican, chinese - there'd be a wide variety of private schools competing for vouchers. Obviously disruptive students wouldn't be accepted at many of them, but some would - that's the beauty of competition.
@Loathomar The money should follow the child. They could give special voucher for children that have special needs. The administration of vouchers could be adjusted based on trial and error.
2:52 Vielka is in jail now. Celerity was an embezzlement scam.
wow you're right... lol
Good
The bad people who embezzle public funds in the guise of helping others should get their entire jail sentence scrubbing the toilets and showers.
Were they chanting Yes We Can on the bus?
That is ironic since Obama is against school vouchers for Washington DC.
The state legislature met on a special session to make the Trigger Law illegal. Spokesman said nothing with a trigger is legal in California.
@alvincay100 Public schools in Compton are in the 6% of CA school, meaning 94% of all schools in CA are better then Public schools in Compton. I went to public school in CA and my HS had over a 50% college attendance, though I don't know its drop out rate. The problem that you describe is not a public school monopoly problem, be a general mandatory school problem. If there was a private/charter school, there is no reason you could not have a 50% drop out rate just like with public.
I agree with the contents of the Video and the parents for doing what they can.
But, education is not a "right". It's a service that needs to be provided. And best provided with market forces.
@robertmike57 Considering that the kids in the Compton schools are 50 times more likely to drop out than go to college, i can't really see how any school can do worse.
What a shame...why does California keep doing this to itself?
@Loathomar Public schools spend anywhere from $12-28k per year per student.
@megagagnon1 What ever the price is, $12 to 28K makes it better for using 75% of the total costs as vouchers would seem to work better. This would allow new charter schools with reasonable prices but still allow public schools to have more money per student. It seems like a win/win. If the charter schools works well then we can change the system and end public schools altogether.
@alvincay100 "The drop out rate is largely related to parenting. Having charter schools will not fix the problem of drop outs". Read about the charter schools in New Orleans. Same parents, same children, much better performance. Plus the parents and students loved the new charter schools. Their public schools were broken, but luckily hurricane Katrina destroyed them. They got to start from scratch.
@megagagnon1 The bad parenting is largely attributed to demographics..Don't forget that association either.
No one has a right to education, but as long as this society decides education will be provided for free, it's insane to follow the current model.
@successfulbuild - The system that's currently used in Southern Los Angeles isn't among these 80% that do as badly or worse than the system that they're competing against. They haven't been found guilty of improprieties. I would be for regulation that holds those guilty of improprieties civilly responsible, and not merely the school itself.
"Market forces" don't always drive products to the bottom line, as Private Schools consistently outperform Public and Charters.
why are there ALL females in these class rooms and meetings ?
I'm tired of hearing people say they have "rights" to this or that. They have privileges! See Michael Badnarik to be schooled on your so-called "rights":
watch?v=t26ENNxHiPg
What are the other 12 states are considering the parent trigger law?
I'm sure the public schools in Compton aren't the best, but obviously a 50% drop out rate mostly reflects poor parenting in the neighborhood. That's the problem with the public school monopoly: the 50% that do graduate are forced to go to school with the 50% that drop out and are a nuisance in the classroom.
@MrWatchdawg77 Yeah it's a personal responsibility but it is a right if you are a minor, the main problem with public school education is that a lot of the times they don't teach you the grade level work you are suppose to be learning, I was in special ed classes in high school and it was literally like 5th grade shit they taught us, what good is teaching 5th grade work to high schoolers when it comes to preparing them for college??. NOTHING!!!!
Ya let's not reduce inequality of wealth distribution or create a real social safety net or cheap university educations or regulating advertising and marketing to children or stop subsidizing food that has 0 nutrition and a million carcinogens/hormones/antibiotics/other nasty shit. No no no no no no, let's pretend that none of these things are a problem in terms of becoming an intellectual cripple and instead let's give parents the illusion of choice in some new way that makes us all feel good.
A study by Standford University showed that 80% of Charter schools performed as bad or worse than their public school counter parts. Many charter school systems have collapsed in some areas as they have been found to have been engaging in fraud (such as graduating students without the required credits needed to graduate, passing them along, and so on), leaving ppl. uneducated.
_
Market forces also require teachers to work long hours, which has been proven to be an unsustainable mechanism.
Okay, I'm torn.
I'm all for school choice and better education.
I'm against the statement "education is a right" and saying people don't need an ID to prove who they are. Even illegal immigrants should have ID to show who they are.
It's a tough one here for me.
What percentage that should be is questionable. 75%, so if half the children leave the school then gets 50% more funding per child, so you could have classroom sizes halved? We spend around ~$10,000 per child per year on K-12 on average, would $7,500 a year be enough for a reasonable private school? Catholic schools average $6,018, Non-Sectarian $17,316, but how much of that is from really high end rich kids schools?
Contrast this with the Union mantra of "..it's for the children" whenever they are trying to blackmail the voters into giving up more hard earned money. Unions have got to be broken and real responsibility put in place.
Lesson in Irony#1 - "Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found"
I wish I would have had a charter school in the 70s. I quit in my Jr yr because I was not leading anything. I train my self. But did not get some of the jobs I should have because I did not have the right sheepskin.
@robertmike57 I would ask the main question, which is how where the school before the Charter schools took over. I mean often you get a Charter school when the normal schools fail. The Compton schools has a 50% dropout and 1% college rate, the charter school is not going to come to this school and be better then the average CA school, but if those rates change to a 40% drop out rate and a 3% college rate, isn't that success? Yet, it would still be in the lowest 1/5 of schools.
@cloudberry121 Have you noticed the Taj Mahol schools they are building? I think it was in that area of CA where they built one school that cost half a BILLION to build.
@megagagnon1 after just 10 years (or maybe even less) the new system would be in place - all kinds of schools needed by customers from preschool to university. High quality for much lower prices.
Next step - health care.
@Loathomar The drop out rate is largely related to parenting. Having charter schools will not fix the problem of drop outs, we agree on that. However, charter schools will allow for schools to be selective in taking students and parents to be selective with the school they send their kids to. This should help to sort out problem students from those more serious about education. So, a monopoly is part of the problem. School should not be mandatory either, but that will never happen.
@robertmike57 Celerity hasn't taken over yet so i don't know what you're talking about. "If the petitions are certified as expected, Celerity would take over administration of McKinley as early as next summer. About 500 students are enrolled at the school, which serves kindergarten through fifth grade." 3 months to go.
@Loathomar There is a reason I used ‘often’ vs always. Not everything teachers unions ask for is wrong but they should refrain from using “it’s good for the students” to justifify all of their demands. To contrast your example: Paying every teacher $1M/year would make teachers very happy. Would it improve the results in their schools? No. For decades we have increased spending in schools and the results have been worse. Clearly the argument to just add $ has proven not to be the solution.
@megagagnon1 Right, the problem is that no school will take disruptive and disabled children if everyone is just given the same vouch and schools can choose their children. You could allow children to have a percentage of the money that public schools get and then as most of the best students leave, the remainder will get more funding per child. This should in theory create a natural equilibrium, so as more students leave the school has more money per child and gets better.
What needs to happen is for government to function in favor of the people, not the unions or public school employees. There is no balance between the two. The school employees should make a decent living, and (heaven forbid) perform to expectations, or find other work. The students should be expected to be... students! More hard learning, such as math, reading, real history, etc, and fewer of the touchy feely, politically motivated "subjects." And get the feds out of education.
I fully agree with the parents having the POWER to get the school in shape but that one legislator who kept using the word "right" was very wrong.
It is not a "right", it is a power. I really wish people, especially legislators would stop badly abusing the meaning of the word "right" in terms of the American constitution and our founding principles.
If legislators are badly damaging the meaning of this word, it is little wonder that the public routinely confuses the meaning as well.
-
Power to the people!
Listen to how uneducated these parents are. If they want their kids to have a chance, they should have sought out their own education. Nobody cares about anyone who is poor and lives in a bad neighborhood. Its the truth. We need to do better for our kids!
Teaching, as a career, is significantly more attractive to those with a liberal/socialist pathology.
ReasonTV is great.
@megagagnon1 I'm still not sold on it. As much as I agree with you that disruptive kids should be kicked out of schools, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
@Loathomar Funny how you mentioned teacher's salary but didn't mention the benefits. I guess those benefits in California are weak, right? By chance, have you seen the movie "Waiting for Superman" and are you familiar with the dance of the lemons?
What they don't tell you is that owning and directing a charter school is also lucrative.
It is also another of Ben Austin lies that the school was unsuccessful to get sufficient petitions to rescind. The truth is that most of us who signed the petition did find out how we were deceived by parent revolution and did rescind our petition. This is the real reason why they took the district to court. THe "revolution" couldn't afford to have more people rescinding their signatures.
The question of if schools can choose students and the ability to kick out kids, is what I think is the most challenging part of vouchers. Allowing schools to choose there students will make for a few great school and a few shitty schools and very little in the middle which seems very unfair to those in the shitty school. If you don't let school choose and it is a first come first sever/lottery, then you need to restrict the ability to expel students, else I expel every bad or slow kid.
@ETicketM True, but teachers pay is not the problem either as it is not like our best and brightness are fighting for these "high paying" teachers jobs. Generally, we hear about teacher shortages and not a surplus of teachers. The law of supple and demand tells us that the pay is either right or too low. Increasing teachers pay and allowing bad teachers to be fired would have a very good in pact on school, as getting and keeping a teaching job would become competitive.
I like reasons, but there wrong about public schools. Holding teachers accountable, but not parents or students is foolish. Anyone who thinks teachers are the problem need to spend one day in the classroom of one of these failing schools. The problem will present itself very quickly. Public school classrooms are full of disrespectuful students who could care less about education. Charter schools wont fix a culture the treats schools like daycares.
perhaps if we stopped paying pointless, pencil pushing administrators twice (and sometimes more than twice) what the teachers are paid, we'd have more money to spend on things that matter. like higher quality teachers, better equipment and facilities (not for sports, for science and computer labs) and a richer clubs scene on campus.
a sensible law came out of sacramento?!
@jkmatt1
let's give them a chance. Charters can't possibly be worse than public schools.
Change is good. Why are you afraid of change. Poor people in crappy district deserve their own Hope & Change (TM).
@robertmike57 To be fair, Ben Austin did graduate of UC Berkeley and Georgetown Law School. $200,000 would seem a very reasonable salary. Median private sector salary for Georgetown Law School grads is $160,000.
@Loathomar Ok, here's fair: I don't give a shit about what Ben Austin could make for a Wall Street firm. Just what does a Georgetown Law degree have to do with education? Shows you're smart, doesn't otherwise show shit. If Austin wants private sector money, let him go to the private sector, now he's getting taxpayer money that could be used to educate students at Celerity schools, he's overhead at Celerity that public schools don't have.
@Loathomar Disruptive and disabled children are a tough problem for any school. You think the public schools are doing a good job with them? Not hardly. So i'd be perfectly happy to see how well private schools do handling such a problem. Unfortunately the public school monopoly doesn't want to see that happen - they want the status quo for very selfish reasons.
@ggadguy i agree, they dont have the right to a great education, but they should have a choice between schools that provide the education. i think that would have been a better way to state it. competition/choice is always better than no choice, its just whether you make the absolute best choice in the matter.
Just gonna say, a quality education is not actually a human right. You have the right to pursue an education, but it's not just going to be given to you for free. Someone has to work and pay for that education to take place.
Someone has to work and pay for the right to a public defense attorney, yet that is still considered a right.
@Loathomar ParentRevolution has a YT channel, there's a blogger who's pointed out the info I claimed., rsdathene, i believe. Anyway, I have never seen a charter School funded only by vouchers that was worth shit, especially in my state, they're all at the bottom on test scores.
@ETicketM Clear the polar opposite is not true. Killing all teachers would be inherently bad for teachers and students, clearly. Generally, what is good for teachers is good for students, happier workers are better workers in general, but this also not the case for all the time. The clearest would be that it is nearly impossible to fire a bad teacher. This is good for teachers (at least the bad ones) and bad for students and one of the major issues of the system.
@megagagnon1 Celerity already runs a number a primary education schools. Their track record sucks.
Let's think about it... while he still was a member of the school board, Ben Austin admited that schools were designed to fail. He was in the same body that designed the educational system to fail. He is an accomplice to all the failing schools. Public schools that have succeeded are the brave ones that went against what his school board dictated.
What about those of parents who were sued by parent revolution for choosing to protect our children's right to a public education as opposed to a charter school.
@MrWatchdawg77 rights = responsibility. too many people have lost sight of that fact.
@ShatterNWO First off, you offer no clear definition of either a police or nanny state. Second, I never even suggested involving the police. Third, the idea that it is preferable to have all these problems instead of enacting and enforcing common sense regulation is foolish. Your rhetoric is transparent and unfounded. There is evidence that each of these factors contributes to cognitive deficits in various ways.
@jkmatt1 If you took away unions from education you would make it easier to get rid of those teachers that did not perform their jobs correctly, and to reward those that did properly. Stress and abuse come to you no matter what job you perform, to use it as an excuse to demand more money from american citizens is ridiculous.
Lets be honest democrat teacher AND PARENTS ! lets open up the borders !
@milesbennettdyson ...you are right, I was never taught the difference, I had to learn it on my own...and fyi communism IS a form of socialism.......so, having a local school board is a way to have accountablity isn't that what they did in Compton? voted to change the status quo??? i propose you end the DEPT of EDUCATION as a start and not look to charter schools as the ONLY choice...
@jkmatt1 you're full of it. Working people don't always hate unions, though they should. Unions are there to keep the main bulk of society from working in their field.. to keep competition down. they are not there to help people.. most things that workers have received via union bargaining would have been (and in most cases already were) coming into being. ford went to the 5 day work week and the 10 hour day (down from 12 - 16) before unions were anywhere near them.
@oldtimefreedom They're not as good as giving parents real choice, aka give them their tax money back, but they are better than the district model which is 100% communist.
A system of "competitive, free-market" schools also collapsed in the UK.
_
Ultimately what matters is the methodology that works. "Market forces" always drive products to the bottom line. Always.
Which means they make it cheaper, and better quality to outcompete their competitors, so bottom line is a good thing, not a bad thing. If there’s no bottom line there’s no incentive to do a good job.
@theshaggyshow Teaching is not really a job that anyone gets into for the money. The average salary is $59,825, and that is a whole $3,000 above the average salary in CA. Sounds good right? But that takes everyone in to account, but not everyone in CA has a four year college degree, in fact 27.2% of Americans have a College degree. Teachers, like all jobs, have a range of political views. There is no requirement to be liberal to get a teaching job.
It is very interesting that the playground where these parents are being interviewed is not McKinley's playground. Deceptive.
@oldtimefreedom And you obviously didn't learn much--In a socialist economy, the government regulates all commerce and industry to avoid wage disparities; in a communist economy, all goods are held as common property to be used by the collective at need--a radically decentralized and localized movement. That's why communism has yet to be implemented except on the very small scale (monasteries, co-ops, etc.), because it is essentially SMALL in influence.
LAUSD is really terrible. I will agree with Vielka on that. LAUSD is one of the worse districts in the entire United States.
Funny thing is that the majority of those parents displayed in this video and many of the parents of the Revolution kept their children at McKinley even after Celerity opened around the corner. Where they really interested in giving their students such better education? If that were so, they would have sent them there, but they kept them at McKinley. The only difference is that the poor children were scarred with the experienced afforded to them by parent revolution.
@jkmatt1
I don't even know what are you saying. Are you trolling me, or are you just trying to be funny?
@Loathomar Special needs gaming the system also already happens in public schools. And when i say free market, i mean free - they can kick out kids if they so choose. Just like any business "we reserve the right to refuse service".
@robertmike57 See, you made a bunch of claims and I asked you for proof of your claims. I did not claim Celerity schools are great, I only asked you for some proof that your claims are, in any way true. You did not. Your only fact is that a CEO got paid less the $200K, which tells us nothing.
@megagagnon1 I think money should follow the children if schools had no say in who comes to there school and where unable to easily kick out a child. The special needs is though, if you just give more to children who have been declared to have "special needs" then you end up with a massive over diagnosis of "special needs". You could fund "special needs" classrooms separately, so that is does not advantage those child who are trying to "game the system".
@robertmike57 can you verify this with documentation that proves the deceitful actions of this charter school/movement. also, if what you say is true that still doesnt prove that having competitive schools is a bad thing choice is always better than no choice though the choice you make might not be the absolute best one.
@CRAPCANNONS
Bingo.
@robertmike57 I am not saying he is a great guy or the man for the job, but his pay is not unreasonable high for his eduction, experience and job. He could be a great leader for all I know, and total worth his salary times 10. Or he could be totally useless and not worth anything, I really don't know. But I can say his salary seems to fit his eduction, experience and job.
You said it yourself. Your class was a special ed. Instruction has to be modified.
@megagagnon1 Oh right, physically abusing child, always the right answer. And how much will those lawsuits be costing you?
@megagagnon1 I can make a great school for reasonable cheap, I start with only taking smartest kids with motivated parents and then kick out any trouble makers right away. There, I'm done. Now you trying to make a good school at the same price per child with kids from troubled homes, with learning disabilities and the ones I kick out. It is easier to teach a class of 40 good students then 20 troubled ones. How do you solve that, not send troubled kids to school?
@theshaggyshow Google! Never heard of it! :P I plan on homeschooling, charter schools provide alternative choices to parents, and choice is what I'm interested in. Since I'm perfectly capable of finding/googling the information myself, the question was intended more as a subtle comment on the report done by Reason.tv
Reason.tv is providing valuable information, but listing the other 12 states would have been more informative and better reporting. My comment was intended for Reason.tv
"It's not gonna end". Guess what. It is already over.
@robertmike57 Well i don't know Celerity's reputation, but i would be cautious about believing someone's opinion, because that person could very well have an agenda. I believe in vouchers and open competition because over time people would know how good or bad a school is, and they can make their choices accordingly. With bad public schools, you're stuck, you've got no choice (lower income people who don't have the means to move).
@MrWatchdawg77 That makes way toooooo much sense!!!
Well said
@arcanekrusader Ya, its that whole "I care about kids" thing, isn't it?... I hate that about teachers.... Caring about others is so very liberal.
The end of the first year is here. As it turns out, according to the department of education, there is a lie here. Celerity schools are not outperforming district schools. Sirius Celerity scored no better than McKinley Elementary. Laurel Elementary, a school within the Compton Unified Schools scored an API of over 900. The average of the Celerity schools was around the 800 range as well. It is time this so called reason.tv to stop being so obsessed with topics.
We need more teachers unions. Private schools should be banned if they aren't represented by teachers unions. It's obvious to me that the verdict is in - any school with a teachers union or funded through public monies is a sure fire winner. I love seeing parents get their freedom of choice = Either it's the district school you live near, or you get arrested for truancy. We are the greatest country God has ever given the planet, and it's the teachers unions that do the work of the Lord.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
There is insufficient research toindicate any superiority of charter schools.
Let's see, you are blaming an elementary school for the students' failure in high school. Right? There is a huge mistake. Once the students leave elementary, they still have 6 years where schools or parents go wrong. Did you investigate the situation at the local high school? no.
@beta447 Yeah lets set up a police and nanny state
@megagagnon1, hell yes.