IBM 5154 EGA CRT Monitor Repair...Eventually
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- I recently picked up this IBM 5154 to help with future projects with the intention of repairing it to reduce the cost for me to get an EGA monitor. I was in for a much longer and more involved project than I realized though.
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The 5154 has about 45 repair tips in my tips database....C605, C705 and C805 are called out for video smear, often confused with a blue/red/green lateral shift issue. Not a convergence issue, a capacitor issue.
BTW, I repaired a TON of the 5153 and 5154 monitors 1994-1997, all were deflection cap issues - vertical, C311 and C312 were the culprits, and for horizontal issues (foldover, dark bar on left side, C401.
Power supplies, well, most were obvious problems or bad solder joints from a bad solder flow from the factory. 24/7 operation, best to let them breathe by not blocking any ventilation slits.
We used the EGA mode on our desktops with Wordstar and a couple of graphic-heavy programs used in Aviation Maintenance. Most of the IBM monitors we had were Tatung-made, I remember only a few with non-Tatung chassis (likely NEC chassis)
That's really good to know. C605, C705 and C805 are the 22uF caps I incorrectly ordered 2.2uF parts for and was not able to replace. So that gives me hope that finishing the job and replacing those might solve the last remaining issue!
@@TechTangents Make a follow-up! Even if it's just a little mini-episode, I'd watch it.
@@TechTangents Yeah it's a shame you STILL had to deal with the blue bleeding. Looking forward to that getting fixed if all it takes is replacing those caps.
Do you have your tips database for the 5154 online somewhere? Would really like to fix my own monitor
It's _always_ the capacitors.
LMAO the cut to editing voiceover of "Oh you poor naive fool you have no idea what's coming." at 7:08 got me laughing hard. if that aint the mood working on vintage electronics idk what is
I read this comment and waited for it, I shot my sip of water all over my monitor even with the warning.
it was gold ngl. especially with how worn out he sounded when he said it
Yeah, that made much chuckle as well. :D
I've had some repairs like that before. I've been a tech for 28 years now.
The corrosion on J45. If they used a glue called "Sony Bond" (which was common back then) to hold that cap, it is corrosive over time. It will even eat the the copper traces from the board. You should clean off all traces of it and use silicone (without acetic acid), hot snot, or epoxy in its place.
11:00: It corrodes because of the glue. Thats the infamous brown glue, killer of many electronics, that turns conductive (and corrosive) over time. Scrape it off whereever it touches any component.
It absorbs moisture is why its both corrosive and conductive. I have seen it covered in beads of water. Agree it should be removed, especially if you are already removing the caps its holding.
Nothing is better than "Hopefully this will be a short video" followed by editing youtuber showing the absurd length of the editing timeline.
Retro programming is a thing, and now retro designing electronics
Neat.
Every time I see a new Tech Tangents video Shelby seems to have gone a bit deeper into the specifics of electronics and he seems to be prepared to do more to fix things, as well as having more items of equipment that a more serious electronics enthusiast repairer might need.
I like seeing this, I often pick up new insights as well as learning more of the basics by watching Tech Tangents videos.
This is the kind of thing I want to do myself but I'm a more difficult and reluctant learner than Shelby.
"... is instantly identifiable by the white knobs". Points at the brown knobs 😅
Love the video, as always a lot of detailed info and I've learnt lots, keep it up man!
I've got a KDS monitor that worked for about two years and then crapped out. I opened it to find a 2W resistor shoved in a hole with no solder. It just made contact for those two years and then didn't. Soldering it fixed the problem.
"lol, no" 😂
Love it! 😁
the most dramatic 7min20sec intro in a Shelby video for a long time :D
oh I love the EGA so much... I dreamed with one when I had an Hercules MDA monitor back in late 80s... finally I bought a VGA but I always loved those dithered EGA graphics and its weird resolution. In fact, even today I prefer the EGA version of most games of that era.
You are living my dream. I cannot do it myself, but at least I can enjoy it here so much! Thank you, keep doing your work, greetings from Austria.
The Mysterious Green Jumper is like a Flash Gordon villain.
I do remember the situation happened some 20 years ago when repairman for company explained to me - Hot or "stressed" (heavy load) solder joints tend to simply evaporize solder over time.
You are a life saver. I have an IBM 8513 vga monitor with similar problems so your let me learn based on your experience
fellas, one piece of advice: DO NOT let the missus watch this video. Mine caught eye of it n now she will NOT stop badgerin me about my paltry troubleshooting and soldering skills. she says what good am I if i cant even bring an IBM 5154 EGA CRT Monitor back from the dead for her... she says im pathetic and cant even reform a cap correctly. just a word of caution, dont do what i have done and be sure to keep these videos close to yourself
I'm not a TV tech, but I'm pretty sure smearing can be caused by a weak CRT. These things were left on for years at a time. Monitors usually have excellent tubes that last forever, but it happens. I'm pretty sure that the guns rarely die evenly. If you have a CRT tester, you should probably hook it up and check.
8:00 that silicone could've been to stop it ringing / oscillating audibly
Remember the fun you had when you recapped your IBM CGA monitor, Shelby?😶
Amazing hard work you've put into this, and I appreciated the fourth wall-breaking!
One thing I've learned is that the epoxy used in holding those capacitors tends to break down over time into this brown crusty gunk, and it WILL corrode wires and leads on other components. Terry Stewart had a problem a long time ago with a CGA monitor, where a diode lead completely corroded because of the glue nearby. I saw something similar on the power supply of my Sanyo MBC-775 (XT clone), and I took precautions for it by chipping that epoxy away.
I'm dieing. I sold a tandy 1000 and a matching egg monitor for 150$. No wander he was so happy paying me and leaving
I LOVE EGA and these dedicated EGA monitors are so fascinating to me.
Great job fixing it up!
I regularly work on fixing old transistor and valve sound amplifiers and I can confirm the big filter caps rarely need replacing. They are normally build at a higher quality then normal electrolytic caps and rarely leak or explode. I have seen valve amplifiers from the 1960's where the filter caps are still reading fine.
7:20 to translate into Australian: “Yeah, Nah”
Great video, I loved the in depth dive into fix this, the troubleshooting, the trial and error. Keep us posted if swapping out those last two caps fixes things.
I've always wanted a 5154 for my 5170, but I've made do with an Amdek. This video is making me rethink wanting one...
This was the most impressive TT video you’ve done; never seen such a deep dive on CRT repair before. You saved a rare monitor, showed us how, and now have a nice record of it and the EGA monitor you’ve wanted as your trophy. 🎉 congrats
I sure love these videos. Its incredible that you've been working on Caps wiki and become one of those institutional knowledge heroes. There'd old geezers at the local hardware store that you can bother for 'Hoohah' and then for such computer technical CAPs stuff you can refer to a proper database.
That was quite the task! That monitor just wanted to see just how thin your patience would go! LOL
PAD's is still used today, it kind of sucks compared to more modern systems but its still out there
Hey TT... I have this 40 year old monitor and it was popping and crackling. It dead Jim... work your magic! "Challenge Accepted"! Though your inflection of defeated beatdown at the 37:42 statement of "and... Turn it on" made it seem like you gave up. Ashamed of you for that because at 38:04 your "Oh my gosh!" followed by the hysterical "damn f$&$king piece of s^*t I can't believe it" was heartfelt and a known feeling by many of us. Congrats on getting that working.
So well captures the kind of masochists we have to be to do this vintage electronics repair stuff. For this reason I can't let myself charge money to repair other's projects... it could take hours or weeks and it's so hard to know
Tseng ET4000 mightve been an overkill, but that's what I use in my 5150 and 5160 systems. Had an OAK EGA/CGA/VGA card in it before, but I moved to VGA entirely as I have "too many" ET4000s lying around.
My hat is off to you. Working on monitors is so scary to someone like me. I have three here I really need to fix, but they aren't anything special like what you have there. Your videos are always so informative. I await your next video release.
Top tip, The 100 uF electrolytic cap you were testing at 31:10 showed low probably because the test freq was 1kHz.
Try 100 Hz and see if it's closer to nominal, old electrolytics aren't great at higher-than-line frequency.
As always. Professionally shot and very informative.
Well done.
My favorite UA-cam channels
- Tech Tangents
- Necroware
- Mend It Mark
Always look forward to new tech and repair videos.
R324 sitting next to the V.CENT pot on the power supply board has seen some better days too
I have a 5154, I HAD two. Bought the second one to repair, only to find it had been in a basement flood, and was filled with mud.
It's not likely a V-sync issue, but is a Vertical deflection failure. Check the deflection winding with a scope, should should see a linear sawtooth pattern.
NOTE: you should also always run these monitors through a isolation transformer.
You should also always float your scope with a ground lift adapter. You could blow up the front end of your scope if you don't float the ground.
One more thing... If you want to clean up a board nicely, USE THE BULK TUBS OF GOJO OR ORANGE GOOP ( *NO PUMICE, THOUGH* ). It does wonders with cleaning up flux and other contaminants, if you have a lot after soldering a board together, or just want to clean up an old board like this.
You have my utmost respect for going through so much trouble to get it working in such a great state. What an adventure it was to watch it. Thanks! 🙏🏻
I had that a few times before, where the Vert deflection IC would just fail for no reason, or after adjusting some of the pots.
It was often because the "boost" cap (can't recall the proper name) was failing anyway, and that can kill the deflection chip if the monitor hasn't been powered up in years.
IIRC, the cap is charged as the chip deflects the beam towards the bottom edge of the screen, then the charge in the cap helps it to fling the beam to the top of the screen again.
The vert deflection chip is pretty much a chonky opamp with some extra stuff around it.
I'm sure the use of single-sided boards didn't help much with the dry solder joints problem.
Just a lot easier for the component legs and wire links to move around, and break the solder, I guess.
I have quite a big dislike for that style of single-sided phenolic PCB. lol
(but they were of course used everywhere in the 70s/80s/90s, and still used to this day.)
Hey man, love your content! Glad to see that you were able to fix it. Really fun, and inspiring to see you fix all kinds of classic tech! All the best 👍
I would like to see the process of opening the power case, and closing it up again. It should be simple enough, but it's nice to have a guide on how it should be done.
7:08 🤣
10 minutes in, fun video so far. Good job Shelby
Your journey is very relatable! Good job with the fix!
Yes, the blue smearing might be a capacitor in the video output amplifier, but unfortunately it can also be a weak CRT. And given how dim it was before adjusting the G2, it might very well be the CRT. You can probably find a good replacement tube in any '90s dime-a-dozen CRT monitor with the same size.
It was pretty neat you were able to repair this monitor. You gave it new life.
One thing you must keep in mind, that glue is a problem, it was originally yellow, and it turns brown with heat and age, it goes conductive and cuases corrosion. That is why things are corroded.
"Hmm... I seem to be having trouble with the v-sync"
*proceeds to replace every component except the one with v-sync in the name*
LOL, btw I like ur pfp
Re-furbish... does that mean that you'll be re-installing a bunch of Furbys in it?
One time, in junior high, I really wanted to play wolfenstein 3d on my old compaq deskpro 286, but it had cga graphics and an accompanying amber cga monochrome monitor. Long story short, I messed with the pots inside the monitor until I got an image with an ega graphics card I got in a box of random parts from a friend. The picture was squished a bit, but I didn’t care- it was playable. 🎉
Brilliant video. Love seeing the process you used.
I love this channel. It's one of my favorites on here. I wish you were in to ham radio. We could use a capwiki for the old Motorola radios.
Thanks for all the videos you do.
Timelapses will NEVER NOT BE ENTERTAINING! lol, the voiceover wasn't necessary, but I found it funny lol. Maybe some relaxing chill tunes next time, you don't HAVE to talk all the time.
Nice that's eventually working! hard works pays off :)
Talking about flux and capacitors just makes me think flux capacitors and now I want to watch Back to the Future.
Your gumption is magnificent.
Nice work. Seeing the Data General in the background makes me wonder when we are going to see some more work on that?
Next time, add flux before reflow. It will work much better. It's likely more solder would be unnecessary.
This was my first monitor, and I think the 5160 may have been the PC I had with it. I was 10 and saved my allowance for a year to get it. I wish I had gotten at least a 286, but computers were just stupid expensive then. This was about the only thing I could get with $200. Except for the time I found an applie IIc at a yard sale for $25. My uncle came over to show me how to use it. I remember seeing him /dir on it and all this stuff flashing on the screen. He then told me it was broken and he would give me my $25 for it. Pretty sure my uncle ripped me off.
Maybe add some acetone into your flux cleaner to help it deal with tougher residue. I don't like leaving old flux on, it could be degrading and turning into something else.
Probably not a great idea to have that powered on with the main board touching the pink anti-static foam. It can be conductive.
I was the one who originally wrote that entry to your Caps Wiki page. The values I put in the table are based on the caps I pulled out of the 3 5154s I recapped. Interesting that yours were different (for record the IBM schematic calls for a 47uf at C11), apparently 100uf works too, lol.
Also, I made a point of using 105C rated caps, the originals were only rated for 85C or less, will this make a difference in the long run, who knows, but I figured it couldn't hurt.
I had found a few differences between the schematics so it seems the values may have changed during production. Since more uF generally doesn't hurt I figured I would go with whatever was in mine but both values are mostly likely usable. It would be interesting to figure out which examples were made when and what caps they have.
The heat the capacitor is exposed to increases the speed of the chemical reactions that depletes the electrolytic fluid. Putting 105C in place of 85C where *ideally* they were only seeing 85C should let the caps last significantly longer. Personally, I think they should have just been 105C in the first place based on how discolored the PCBs are in mine from being exposed to heat.
I need one of those IPA dispenser jars!
I have trident VGA card and it works perfectly
It's a lot of work. Amazing video thx!
Congratulations !
text mode is 50 Hz, both EGA modes 1 & 2 should be 60 hz. Fun fact the common VGA 256 color mode was 70 hz. Which means DOS games theoretically can run higher framerate than... the majority of LCD monitors on sale.
To think, EGA, CGA monitors were junked en masse back in the 90s. I remember going to electronics salvage and seeing shelves of the things for 5-10 bucks each.
I like how desoldering gun doesn't go brrrrrr
Congratulations.
PADS PCB for DOS - A version of that software (along with Schema III) was pretty much my working life from early 1992 to mid-1995. I still have quite a few of the project files that I created back then, although the software that I was using needed a dongle on the parallel printer port and I don't have one of those. I look forward to seeing how you get on with the software and wonder what you will produce using it.
That reminded me of ultimate ulticap and ultiboard for dos. I used that long long ago. A version 3 from 1988 seems to be on the internet archive, but I'm sure there will be alternative sources.
Might be nice to look into to see which was more advanced. No idea about the minimum requirements though, that would differ by version
Slight gripe the symbol for micro is not a u it is the Greek letter “mu”
Fantastic work!
I spat my food out when you said "ohhh, you poor fool...". Funny AF. Brilliant. Spoiler?!?
You could have just used one of the monitors in your Hydro Thunders. They are EGA. ;) would have made for an interesting experiment. Seriously though, great job!
there is very little diference between a 2.0 and 2.2 microfarad capacitor; could have just replaced them... The only it matters, is if the capacitor is part of the filter, or timing circuit. Bypass and filter caps can be close but not exact values. However, never replace a cap with a lower voltage rated cap, or you could boil the cap and bang... you likely already know all of this, sorry if you do...
We want to see you design a PCB on it using that software that you send off the JLCPCB to be built for that machine!
! 2200uF Electrolytic will always "test bad" at 100KHz. You need to be testing at 100/120Hz. The only thing `100KHz is used for is tiny ceramics.
I'd love to explore a similar idea on vintage Sun hardware, but unfortunately all the relevant software is probably permanently lost to time behind limited distribution and arcane licensing.
7:09 That really got me. I feel that tho
Half makes me wonder if a person could have made an adapter to allow hooking a multisync VGA monitor up to an EGA card; seems like the digital RGB could probably be converted to analog intensity via the power of resistors or similar (or use some transistors if one needs to invert the signals...).
Honestly, you should NOT just replace the capacitors and think that it is fixed. Usually damaged Caps with cause Diodes, Transistors, and MOSFets to fail as well.
You should check all of the semiconductor elements in the circuit when changing caps, before you power it back up for the first time. The life you save will be your own... :)
you must have spent weeks on that thing, great job
EGA might’ve been used rarely.
it's funny when Shelby growls...
Yeah!
"PCB design on an 8088" -- that sounds like the least fun thing I can imagine. ;-) haha
I love retro computers, and old CRTs. But when coding and CADing, ultra-widescreen high-DPI for the win. The more the merrier. Gimme ALL the pixels.
And I remember a few of my board designs causing slowdowns on my old Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz. So gimme all the GHz too.
How to made a long repair video, not changing first ALL the old capacitors (because of the cap itself or the glue used to hold these caps)
Real question here. But why wouldn't you just pitch the entire internal power supply for something newer? It feels like it could be smaller and more efficient now, and honestly a power supply wouldn't change much about the integrity of the system, but would last longer.
The crackle and pop described by the seller are 100% those RIFA's...
Hopefully Shango isn't here to read this... But... Why not just replace every electrolytic before even starting to troubleshoot something of this age?
Drat! Drat and double-drat!
Maybe design its power supply board when you get the software running. Great videos as always I don’t mind time lapse.
My hands shake a bit too much so I cannot solder myself so I do enjoy watching.
You really, REALLY need an oscilloscope my friend. You could have just probed around and found the issue very quickly, as opposed to just changing random parts until it's fixed. Repairing CRTs is a really great way to learn to trace signals with a scope and you don't need a fancy scope to do that. A cheap Rigol dual channel or even an old vintage Tektronix will get the job done.
I have plenty of scopes, when you are dealing with 40 year old components that likely had high usage you should be inspecting caps first with an ESR/LCR meter. Like I mentioned towards the end, it *needed* to be recapped no matter what due to the issues like the vertical fold over. And every single cap I pulled off and measured the ESR on, except the main PSU filter caps, were way too high resistance. If I hadn't been finding verifiably bad parts, then yes I should have pulled out the scope. Replacing the vertical sync controller was a shot in the dark, but also a documented known to fail part. So I had already ordered a replacement and it was sensible.
If that had failed, I had ordered a Sam's Photofact for the monitor (which I've also scanned and put on archive.org) and I was going to start measuring signals. This wasn't throwing parts at it and hoping to fix it, I had found reasons to do every replacement I did. Even if it was a single faulty cap I could isolate the problems too, I should have been replacing them all due to measured ESR increases.
@@TechTangents sure, replacing 40yo caps is a good idea, but with a scope you would have found the bad sync gen in 5 minutes and saved yourself a lot of frustration.
Anyway regardless, the video was super entertaining and you got there in the end, but as somebody who was repairing CRTs in the 90s, I felt it was my duty to shout "get a scope" at you lol
You know it is going to be fun when the editor cuts in...
I like your videos