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I was about to return my ARC when I first purchased it, and gave the sub a chance, which made a world of difference, enough for me to keep it. Then for icing on the cake I bought the rears later and wow. I have a SVS setup and I gravitate to my Sonos more. Ease of use, clean wireless look, and sounds fantastic to me.
I don’t know what I’d do without Darko reviews, I’m hungover and this is brightening my day as it’s exactly the experience I found. Once you’ve heard actual hifi, a soundbar simply can’t impress you. If you just want clearer dialogue etc vs your tv speaker then great, but that is it.
Wait, why compare the Arc, a home theater focused soundbar, to compare to two speakers, when Sonos makes the Fives, that would provide also a roughly similar priced option to compare a traditional hi-fi to?
This is a confusing video. If you’re an avid audiophile that listens to A LOT of music at home why are you even trying a sound bar? Sound bars first and foremost are for increasing your experience listening to tv/movies in a relatively simple all in one device. If you’ve got the time, space and money to purchase multiple devices, run multiple cables and have plenty of space to connect speakers, amps, receivers etc all over than a sound bar is a million miles from where you want to be lol. I have a Beam 2 and 2 ikea/Sonos lamps and it works for me as I just didn’t want cables running all over the place. I don’t think anyone ever buys a sound bar because they’re thinking this is the absolute best system I could ever have for movies and music.
Would your room treatment interfere with the sound bar bouncing sounds off walls and ceiling to improve the virtualized surround sound? I swear in my room the left channel sounds much wider where my Sonos playbase can bounce off a plain wall than the right channel which has curtains and other nik naks to deal with. I also wonder if you tried comparing the same song from the TV as a source and from the app. I swear it puts a different sound signature where it's expecting TV or film audio from the TV even if it's a music app.
When it comes to soundstage the main advantage stereo speakers has is that you can physically seperate more than the fixed speakers of the ARC. Soundbars are first and foremost designed to be paired with a TV for movies and especially dialogue but if you're after something for just music, you can get better performance from a Stereo Setup for the same price. Thanks for your thoughts John. Always appreciate another Hi-Fi reviewers perspective.
To each his own, but I think you've done a few unfair things: 1. You’re comparing a soundbar designed for a TV/Movies with a HiFi system designed for music. 2. The price for the Sonos Arc includes its ability to connect with other Sonos speakers in the whole house via wifi, Apple Airplay, Alexa, etc. 3. The Sonos Arc can be connected to your Smart Home natively and can run playlist alarms without breaking a sweat. You can change music or volume based on who’s in the room. In short, all the technology that makes it a smarter speaker adds further justification for the higher price. 4. For music, the Arc works best with its sub and surrounds. Obviously, that shoots the price through the roof, but then again Sonos has never targeted the mid-market. 5. TV suggestions: try playing movies like “SEE” on the Apple TV+ or movies with big sound stages such as “The Negotiator”. Dolby also has an app on Apple TV called “Dolby Summit” which will showcase the abilities of the Dolby Atmos on the Arc. I do agree with you that the Arc does have a delayed catch on to the Dolby Atmos, the first time you switch to music. But it does stay consistent after that.
A few friends of mine have the arc and they are used in simple setups, no dampening or special stuff in the living room. And in 2 cases since they have kids they don't use 5.1 due to cables and stuff. when they come over at my place where I have a full Samsung 5.1 setup they keep looking behind them when they hear something simply because an arc doesn't have rear audio. However I do know someone who has the arc, sub and 2 ones for rear audio which sounds nice though. However lots of audio delay. Even noticed this myself with just that smaller version of the arc. The play 5 offers stereo with a single speaker if you put balance to left or right with a song that has clear stereo you can hear it.
My understanding of how the faux Atmos tech works is by bouncing the sound waves off the walls and ceiling. DO you think your room treatment hamstrings it a bit?
Love the ‘blows it out of the water, comment! I know how much you love using them - the tongue in cheek was great! Thanks for demoing this… very interesting. I think I’m going to find it hard pushing past stereo. I like it a great deal.
I've had the complete Arc system for just at 1 year now and while I absolutely love it, you perfectly described the difference between my AudioEngine A5s and the Sonos System. The music through Sonos almost feels like it's a part of the room, whereas a powered stereo pair have that presence you were talking about. Also glad to hear Bright Eyes brought up, been a fan since I'm Wide Awake It's Morning. A band shockingly close to Bright Eyes acoustically I would recommend if you haven't heard them, is "Right Away, Great Captain!".
I wonder how much the acoustic treatment in your room impacts the processed Atmos from the Arc. This kind of Atmos soundbars depend on the reflections from the room surfaces.
So the hifi was better than the Sonos sound bar for listening to music. I think we all kind of guessed that. However it is really good to have a definitive test and our hunches confirmed. However, how did the hifi compare with the sound bar for watching a movie on TV? Was it still better? How was the dialogue and the mix between incidental music and the spoken word? Sometimes I've found watching TV via my hifi a bit too much - great for a movie but over the top for a cooking show or a soap opera.
I’ve got the arc / sub / and two rear ones. Music sounds really good with the whole system. Especially Atmos albums like Yello “point”.. Inxs “kick” … really fun listening.
I switched my HiFi amp (Cambridge Audio) to a Sonos Amp and that solved both the TV sound (using the great Sonos Amp center modulation) and music listening. I do agree though that having a full wireless ecosystem is more convenient and esthetic but then we rely on power cables and potentially more failure points (more hardware and software issues).
As a person with a house full of Sonos, I agree with everything you say on here. I have a Sonos Playbar for my main TV because I think it sounds better than the Arc or Beam and I don’t care about fake atmos. But I only use it for streaming background music through the whole house, which it actually works well for. And like you said, it improves the TV speaker experience. With a couple of Play Ones and a Sub you can actually get a decent movie experience with easy set up and whole house compatibility. But I don’t watch much TV, I mostly listen to music and for that I have a proper 2.0 set up in a music room without any Sonos interference. Bowers and Wilkins bookshelves, Shiit Preamp, vintage Sansui receiver, record player and CD player etc. Different things for different purposes
Appreciate your going into connecting lanes and for those of us who do 2.1 channel & headphone centric listening with home theater, gaming and live performance streaming or concert footage. Within an urban residence, my TV set up is in a small entertainment room and found that dynamic powered speakers & open headphones were the preference though open to exploring 5.1 for larger rooms & movies / shows down the line.
Could it be that the soundbar actually relies on reflections from the walls and your listening room is just too well damped and set up for stand mount speakers (since they stand a few meters appart and are facing your listening position, they sound close to ideal)? I work at an institute with an anechoic chamber. I once brought my JBL Charge 3 there and it sounded awefull but when playing in an untreated room, it sounds quiet good.
I’ve an Arc + Sub + 2x Play Ones - with music set to full out of the surrounds it’s a great setup, for movies it’s perfect. Yes the Arc by itself or Arc + sub is a little disappointing for music, but that’s not really the intended purpose for this.
I agree, though, for some the interface is the priority and in all truth, they don’t sound at all bad so for the punter who has not demoed the 1000 Euro alternative system and just wants and easy to use Sonos delivers.
Dear John. I have the Arc and love it. For watching TV. For music I completely agree that it’s not optimal. However, I seem to remember that you have a pair of Play Ones. If you set the Arc up with a pair of Ones behind you everything changes. You get an enveloping experience. Admittedly, it’s not purist 2-channel but it sounds pretty damn nice. I use my Arc and Ones and a Sonos Sub for background/casual listening. For concentrated listening I use headphones. The relative best of both worlds. As an aside, you’ve had a cool focus on subwoofers recently. In my experience the best Sonos speaker is their Sub and the ease with which it works with their other speakers. I would take two Ones and Sub over two Fives any day🙂
13:20 - 13:30 might be my favorite Darko moment ever. I knew it was coming, but it still made me laugh, and the bomb drop noise in the background made it 100x better lol.
I would be more interested with a comparison between a pair of Sonos Fives and a conventional hi-fi system. Soundbars are designed and intended to accompany TVs, and that in itself makes your review an apples-to-oranges comparison. From the moment I started playing your clip, I expected you'd be disappointed with the Arc as a music system. It is a single-enclosure speaker, after all. Even if you add a Sub and a pair of satellites to it, it doubt it would deliver the kind of experience a hi-fi system would in terms of music sound reproduction. I know because I have a similar setup at home. I've divided their duties--Sonos home theater system for movies and TV, and a Rotel amp with a pair of bookshelves on stands for music. I'm pretty certain that If you did the same comparison of Arc vs. hi-fi, but in the context of cinematic audio, the result would be the reverse.
I wish the music industry would focus their efforts on providing well recorded, mixed and mastered stereo, rather than all these gimmicks like atmos and stupid hi-res. Just get 16 bit 44.1 khz right and we would have all we need.
But you cant really market 16 44.1 for marketing and getting ''normal'' people to buy things you always need some new exciting tech. Personally I agree 100% 16 44.1 is fine
Atmos or even 5.1 is superior to stereo if recorded and mixed well. Obviously, it has technical advantages with more speakers and high-res capability. The technical aspect, as well as more speakers can definitely present a better sound stage. However, I often find that much of the recordings are gimmicky. Like when you hear a guitar solo above your head and not in the front stage. I totally agree with Darko that I would rather have a good 2.0 or 2.1 sound system over a soundbar but it doesn't beat a good multi-channel system. Quality of recording is often the biggest factor whether stereo or multi-channel.
Having worked in the music industry since 1980 I can assure you that 100% of the effort in making a record is getting the recording, the mixing and the mastering as good as it possibly can be. Modern records are extremely skilfully recorded and mixed. Mastering has been somewhat tainted by fashionable heavy processing, but the people doing the mastering are still very skilled and have amazing ears. I think there is often a confusion between personal taste and what is or isn’t good/right.
Hi! I had re re-evaluate my opinion of Sonos Arc (+ Sub + 2xPlay:1 surrounds) as music listening system. I purely used it in my TV room for movies. After Sonos enabled Spatial Audio from Apple Music and I did the necessary software upgrades both for the app and Sonos equipment. It's really a very different listening experience from stereo and in a good way. I wonder what might you think abpit it ?
Exactly. The ARC with the sub and a pair of One surrounds is surprisingly good and incredibly convenient. For when I really want to listen to music, though, I turn to my LS50Ws.
This apples and oranges comparison was super helpful because It clarified fundamental differences between equipment classes that usually don’t get compared.
For me the main reason to go with the HiFi system is that I can upgrade parts when I want When need some upgrades for the soundbar your only real option is getting a complete new one
This has been the case when everything plugged into everything else. With digital signals and multiple standards that change every few years some part of the system gets out of date and a confusing array of convertors and choices for digital signals; upgrade paths may exist. Digital processing changes that. DSP works when the designer knows what components are being used hence DSP active speakers sounding better than their passive versions. The only clear way of knowing that all parts work together is getting all new parts.
Now I'd like to know how a dedicated music speaker system sounds. I have the Sonos Arc + 2 Sonos Era 300 speakers in the back + Sonos Subwoofer + Sonos Port to connect to my turntable and it sounds pretty good in my opinion with the full Sonos ecosystem... but again I haven't heard a dedicated hi-fi system.
This doesn't necessarily go without saying although it does track with your content, but I just want to take a moment to appreciate the audio quality of your videos. I don't know how you record and master them, but the quality is both noted and appreciated.
Am I right that we missed the comparison for use with film / TV? It seems obvious you should buy a hifi for music, but what about use for mainly film/TV, also music?
I own both a BOSE Soundbar and a "real" 2ch hifi system (Triangle, Marantz) and I can confirm that I never play music (ok, UA-cam occasionally) through the bar. The separates are so much more musical. Full heartedly understand this comparison and would recommend anyone into buying a system for music, to stick to the ol' fashioned way! Keep rockin' Darko!
Great video - always thought my 2.0 hifi for less than £1000 sounded better than sound bars. Would have liked to hear your thoughts comparing the two setups for tv use - particularly movies.
I enjoyed your video when you first found out subwoofers are fun (Kef), many of us already knew this. The Arc is not a music system, it is for movies. Flip this comparison around, and feed Bladerunner 2049 into your hifi-system, then the Arc, and you'll get it.
12:38 products are about compromises. Like you said, the Sonos soundbar is for someone who does not want bulky speakers in their room, does not want to get separate amps and DAC and in general just want things to sound good. You are essentially paying for convenience vs setting up everything yourself. Your perspective is that of an audio reviewer/expert who knows what they are doing. For most people Sonos will sound good, it’s stupidly easy to setup, has good aesthetics and doesn’t take up too much space. You are sacrificing a bit of sound quality for all these niceties. It’s important to understand this because you are comparing apples to oranges.
Very interesting review, I think it is a case of horses for courses. The ‘soundbar’ is definitely a must have for all new flatscreens but the Sonos system is a trade off for people who want a better flavour without going down the whole surround sound / hi-if route and also like the people who came before them who liked bang and olufsen because the sleek / simplistic design. Quite often we fine ourselves choosing style over substance not to say the Sonos is no good because it does what it does well and I can say this because I have the soundbar / sub / lots of ones knocking around in different setups
I love the Sonos arc for movies in our living room. The wife loves it and it has that clean look and appeal. For music I totally agree with you. For movies the Sonos does some amazing things mainly the dialog clarity Meanwhile in the bonus room I have my Elac bookshelf hifi system connected to a Sonos Amp for movie nights with the guys
Thanks for this video. I just set up the Arc, a sub, and two Sonos 1s in my TV room. I think the music sounds ok, but I can completely understand your comment about the soundstage. For that very reason, I plan to also add to that room and stand-alone HiFi system for vinyl and some streaming playback. Cheers!
Can’t agree more with you .. I tried moving from Bose 700 bar + sub to Sonos Arc with sub… but the store person recommended simple hifi system in same price range and I am blown away …. And because of which I am totally getting into it …
Thank you for this very interesting comparison. I have been living with the Arc for over a year. Combined with a sub and two Play 1 rears it provides an easy to use surround system, linked to my Samsung The Frame. Samsung did take over a year! to fix the isse that you could not use the Arc in E-arc mode. Be glad you didn’t have that issue while testing. For ‘easy listening background music’ the SONOS setup is fine but it’s by no means a replacement for HiFi. A few months ago, I got a pair of PMC LB1’s and I dug up my 30 year old Luxman LV92. Linked to a Bluos Node 2 it is way better for music than the SONOS surround system, confirming your findings. Sorry for the long story and keep up the good work. I love your videos!
I have the ARC paired to a Sub Gen 1 & 2 Play 3s for surround. IMO, the ARC without a Sub is probably only 50% of the experience. Being designed with such small drivers, there simply isn't enough surface area to hit low notes cleanly without distorting the mid range. Adding a Sub relieves the drivers in the ARC of this stress and there is immediate improvement to clarity and soundstage. Imaging is not a thing with soundbars though.. although TruePlay does help
Hi John, maybe the arc + sub + a couple of Sonos ones will change the music experience…arc alone for music - naa, won’t cut it; maybe a couple of Sonos 5’s in your hifi set up??
I know you were doing this through the lense of music listening, but would have been interesting to hear your thoughts on how they compared watching a movie
Exactly. From a hardware perspective, the Arc is primarily sold a home cinema device that happens to do music. It's got a solid music app, but hardware wise, it definiely errs on the side of home cinema. It's a little like comparing a Ferrari and Range Rover, but only taking the cars out on a race track.
A Dolby atmos bar needs the walls and ceiling to reflect the sound, and I would, at least add 2 ikea Sonos speakers in the back, with so much acoustic panels, will for sure stop the reflection…
I wonder if the non immersive surround sound is because your room is sound deadened. I think a lot of the virtual atmos soundbars (we have one) rely on sound bouncing and reflecting off the walls. Ours certainly sounded better in a squarer room versus our now larger vaulted ceiling room
I have the Sonos Arc connected to an LG G1 55" and rear left / right ceiling speakers powered by Sonos Amp for 5.1 surround. We mostly use if for movies/TV and it sounds great especially on Dolby Atmos mixes. For normal ambient music listening Sonos Arc is excellent in that context, but agree it's not for ideal seated focussed listening, which would be better served by a traditional hi-fi speaker, as you have rightly pointed out. It's useful to compare but somewhat disingenuous as you are not comparing apples to apples. I also personally would never want to combine movies/TV with a hi-fi system, if you really love music then it's always better to have a dedicated set-up with the best equipment for the reproduction of stereo sound.
Hi Jhon, i dissagre with you at 3:15. The sonos app allows for playing Atmos music tracks in Atmos format directly from apple music. I did test this on my Sonos Arc + Sub combo. What's crucial is to make sure no other sonos speaker is grouped or else it wont use the Atmos format. Thats also the way i tested: 1. select a track with Atmos over the sonos app and play it on the arc 2. group play it with a sonos five --> song reloads (in stereo format, you can hear that greatly depending on the mix) 3. ungroup again --> sonos app does not automatically switch to Atmos format again 4. select the song again --> sonos arc plays it again with Atmos I do acknowledge that it is somewhat finicky but it works, atleast for me.
Hey - you are both right haha. His video was a year ago when Apple didnt allow this - In March last year they opened this up to Sonos to coincide with Era 300 release. (so it works fine now) but only - as you said- so long as you dont group with non Atmos capable speakers
I own a Klipsch Cinema 600 (5.2) system and I love it. Awesome for movies. For music, it depends on the recorded source. For example, I can pop on UA-cam and type in “Reference Music” and it sounds amazing. Sometimes other sources only sound ok. But like you said, You have to spend more money and have a lot more stuff which is what I didn’t want. I agree with what you said about the Sonos Arc too. Great Video!
I work in professional audio, and have been delving deeper and deeper into Atmos and other Immersive type audio systems as part of my job, so I know quite a bit about it. Overall your assessment is correct, it’s pretty much a gimmick for music playback at this time, and would take a decade to mature, if ever. It may cross a threshold at some point but for now 2 channel mixing of music has been around for 50 years so there is a lot of maturing to happen for it to overtake (or improve on) existing audio experiences. As for home listening; I have my TV included in my overall audio system at home, with Sony Bravia as TV and Hegel/Elac + REL sub to replace my TV speakers. Since I still consider myself an ‘audiophile’ at it’s most basic and prioritize music over surround sound, I would NEVER replace this 2.1 setup with a soundbar, no matter how premier it is, even if there are a few negatives when watching well mixed films and TV. And I say this as someone who works professionally in the field. I did look briefly at adding a Sonos Arc to my games TV in the spare room, as I recently went for a C1 (love it for gaming by the way), but for the money they want I’ll stick to the TV speakers when I do watch TV in there, and use good gaming headphones for gaming. Honestly you nailed it, soundbars for music doesn’t cut it and is a MASSIVE compromise, even at a very basic investment of $ for equipment. BTW: I was just at ISE 2022 and was given a demo of a product by a Berlin based company called Holoplot. Since you are local, if you want to see what’s happening in the more ‘pro’ end of the spectrum, go to their office and get a demo of their stuff. It’ll show you how clearly companies like Sonos are the followers here, much less the leaders.
Just keen to get your view. So what you are implying is that even for surround sound with SL1 and subwhoofer the sonos system is poor and a 2.1 system will beat it. For me this does not sound right, as rear speakers do have a huge impact as well as the subwhoofer. I am still interested in your thinking and would appreciate your view on this matter. Its not impossible that I change my mind.
I think a comparison against a Sonos stereo pair might be fairer. I have a pair of the latest Era 300 and find it excellent, the room correction software works really well well. Not counting sheer practicality, lol, no interconnects, speaker cables, no chances of ground loops either…
But surely SONOS have never been about competing with Hi-Fi quality sound, it’s always been about the convenience. I have both SONOS and a dedicated Hi-Fi system setup and use each one depending on what I need it for.
I had the Sonos Arc and I felt like you. I returned whit the 100 days return time and now I have the Kef LSX. What a difference. I never go back to sound bar.
I have heard a Sonos with sub and two satellites- they sounded great. I have a dedicated 2 channel with tube amp and Sonos sounded just as good- the complete Sonos system is about 3k. If I had to do this all over again- I would just go with a premium soundbar with sub and satellite
Funny that John would test a soundbar in an acoustically treated room when the whole idea behind soundbars is to reflect audio back at the listener (hence those upward and sideways firing drivers) for that virtualized surround sound experience.
I agree. I have the Arc in a much much smaller room. After set up, I found the sound stage was very wide and immersive. ( the side walls and ceiling were closer). It even seemed to play stereo music! And still immersive and engaging! Added bonus but I am not sure I would ever have designed this, or compared it to HiFi! Since we are going off piste from hifi, what about ceiling speakers!
I mean, comparing any sound bar to dedicated speakers is going to give you the same result. but that isn't a fault with sonos. Arc isn't made for music and it perform far better than 2 channel system like the one shown here for movies. and other visual content. Bass is a huge part of movie watching, audiophiles tend to ignore bass in their music for some reason, but for a movie you want real deep bass, and all the audio action generally happens in front of you and occasionally a stray bullet or something like that properly encoded in a movie track will play acceptably on Arc, so different products made for different uses. and then comes the issue of footprint and the bunch of gear issue he mentioned in the video.
We love our Sonos system, but admittedly we did go straight in with a 5.1 system of the original playbar, sub, and 2 x Play1s in the rear. The soundbar was since upgraded with the Arc. Now I know this isn't the subject of your video (comparison for audio system under EUR 1000), but I just wanted to point out that with Amazon Unlimited there are a number of Dolby Atmos tracks that can be played direct from stream, rather than via a TV with EARC. I too have made a playlist of these, and more are constantly being added. Atmos really works well in this scenario.
I know some people play music via the TV, and that the Sonos does a great job of improving the sound from the TV. But I've always kept the systems separate - with a dedicated hifi system for music and TV/Sonos for the Tv/films. Some may say its overkill and unnecessary to have a separate hifi system when it's perfectly possible to stream music via the Sonos. But for me I want to enjoy the music in the best way possible.
Just auditioned the arc and found the exact same. One thing that works for me in making my Dali Oberon 3 speakers less intrusive, is placing them on isoacoustics mini-pucks on a wide tv bench under the tv. Cheers.
Nice video! Would you recommend to use Sonos amplifier with those hifi speakers?. I really like Sonos systems but I do love to hear hifi music. There is some way to have the best from both options? Thank you!
I dont think a soundbar is there to compete against regular hifi speakers + amp combos, its more for people who dont want or cant have a lot of such devices in the room.
One point I thought of is that the Sonos is somewhat designed to "bounce" sound off the walls and ceiling to give it a more open soundstage. However, I'm pretty sure John has sound deading material on the walls that may decrease the performance. That said, the Arc is really designed for home cinema and not music. Perhaps a fairer test would be using 3 Play 1's (left right center) and see how that sounds or perhaps to Play 5 as he mentioned.
and if your room is not too large I would also go for KEF LSX and skip the amp if space is of concern. and you can still buy a decent dac for those if you wish.
Stereo is great but Atmos has the ability to create a far more immersive experience. It is the way of the future. Mixing engineers are mostly still learning the techniques and they’ll get more creative (surround has been a novelty in music until the last couple of years). I think Atmos in headphones has a lot of room for improvement though. I would have agreed with the conclusions on the Arc soundstage until I ended up buying one for a second tv watching setup and got the sub and surrounds. I have a stereo system in the same room and was shocked by the soundstage the full Arc system created. Not quite as razor sharp in imaging as the 2.0 but all most will need for an immersive experience. I think judging the Arc on its own is almost like reviewing a stereo system with one speaker 😊
Great review as always but I think the comparison with a dedicated hifi is a little apples and pairs as each is going to what the other doesn't do well, better. One does TV and movies really well but can also play music ok'ish. The other plays music really well but can play TV and movies but ok'ish. I own an arc, sub and 2 play 1s in a listening room for my TV and it sounds fantastic with none of the wires etc I wouldn't ever listen to music on it and as you say. If anyone buys it just for music then they have been mis-sold as Sonos have "hifi" speakers dedicated to music.
What i understand he is saying is that even for playing movies, the stereo image and sound stage of the hifi system is better than the atmos mode of the sound bar. And it totally makes sens to me. Even the most impressive sound bars out there can't compete with proper stereo system, let alone proper suround systems. The only upsides of sound bars are there size and simplicity of use. And for some people, this is important.
@@eEridani I didn't take that away but maybe you are right. Owning an arc and having a much higher spec hifi in the room that was tested here, I still believe the Sonos arc will far about perform most stereo hifi for TVs and movies. It digs really deep, certainly deeper than those Dali's, is highly entertaining but also it does a much better job with voice and effects than a stereo hifi. Anyhow, with surround play 1s and a sub it entertains me and my family incredibly well along side and not intruding into workings of my dedicated hifi. Listening to music through av amps is God aweful so the Sonos arc etc is a great solution in my case, i.e. it needed to sit next to a high spec hifi.
I use a beam with two Ikeas at the rear. It works pretty well. Only a little bit meh as long as you don't AB it with stereo system. Surround effects are good and lends some space to the music. It has its moments.
Reviewing sonos arc is… a difficult thing. I own one, bought sub and rear speakers to it later. I remember my disappointment when I first installed it in my living room. Tried using trueplay several times but the music sounded very artificial… very weird. Movies were great, it’s obviously built for that in the first place. Then I’ve used different device for tuning, this time my old ipad pro. The difference was like night and day. Later I’ve added sub to the mix, which now I think is mandatory for this sub, that’s how much it changed the whole experience. In many things I agree with this review, however I don’t have an issue of how “wide” this soundbar sounds, since mine is sometimes as close as to having a pair of headphones on my head (before I’ve added rear speakers). But my room is much smaller than his, I don’t have a space for dedicated left and right speakers - that’s why I’ve bought a soundbar instead of separate speakers. I can’t recommend this soundbar to someone who got space for speakers next to the tv, but as a soundbar it’s amazing. Watching movies and series is such great experience, but with music listening I agree with the reviewer here, not the best system for the money.
I own a Arc as a compromise with my wife and it’s great for home theater and pretty darn good for convenience music listening. You definitely need to do the TrueSound room calibration though. It helps immensely.
Hi John, I wish you would have also included a comparison with a stereo system based on the Lyngdorf 1120. Thus comparing two different room correction systems. It would also have been interesting to have a living room home theater comparison between the Sonos Arc and stereo Lyngdorf system.
Agree with your assessment of the sound of the Arc for music, but personally still find it absolutely worthwhile because my priority for it is movies and TV. They sound incredible on the arc, with well rounded sound, shaking bass effects, and really crisp dialogue which is something I often have a problem hearing on stereo speakers. I also agree that it doesn't live up to the advertised idea of it being surround sound all in one; those side speakers don't replace true surrounds. That being said your setup is also a factor I think. You have tons of room treatment on the walls and ceiling to cut down on reflections, but those reflections are exactly what Sonos uses to create the surround sound and Atmos effects. When you break them up, you won't get those results. You're also quite far back from the sound bar, the ideal position for the Atmos effect depends on your ceiling height. I think they should angle the height driver's more, but you may get better results if your MLP is closer. In the end I decided I wanted both; I still have my bookshelf speakers connected to my turntable and Volumio Rpi, and I'm running the Sonos arc with the TV. Plan on expanding to the sub and surrounds. You're right that it's not a good fit for people who prioritize music, but if you want simplicity and good TV audio, it's way up there.
I actually think this is a surprisingly useful comparison. If you're considering upgrading the sound of your TV with a nice soundbar, it's good to know that a 2 channel hifi system works just as good or better for movies and you get a free hifi for music. Not a bad deal. The one nice thing about the Sonos is that it takes up less space physically and visually which matters for a lot of people. Usually those people are phobic to the idea of adding an extra box and a couple extra wires. As my old German mechanic used to tell me, there's an ass for every seat.
The problem is that he didn’t really compare the soundbars TV performance to the HiFi’s TV performance. It could be that the soundbar blows the hifi out of the water when watching tv and movies, in part due to the deeper bass.
Thanks John, these kinds of comparisons are very interesting. I'd love to know how similar priced 'Pro audio' gear compares too. You know, like a pair of active studio monitors or a 2.1 system. Any plans for something like that?
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In 2020 I discovered James Hoffmann and up-ed my coffee game, this year, in 2022, I found John Darko and up-ed my sound game.
I was about to return my ARC when I first purchased it, and gave the sub a chance, which made a world of difference, enough for me to keep it. Then for icing on the cake I bought the rears later and wow. I have a SVS setup and I gravitate to my Sonos more. Ease of use, clean wireless look, and sounds fantastic to me.
I don’t know what I’d do without Darko reviews, I’m hungover and this is brightening my day as it’s exactly the experience I found. Once you’ve heard actual hifi, a soundbar simply can’t impress you. If you just want clearer dialogue etc vs your tv speaker then great, but that is it.
Wait, why compare the Arc, a home theater focused soundbar, to compare to two speakers, when Sonos makes the Fives, that would provide also a roughly similar priced option to compare a traditional hi-fi to?
This is a confusing video. If you’re an avid audiophile that listens to A LOT of music at home why are you even trying a sound bar? Sound bars first and foremost are for increasing your experience listening to tv/movies in a relatively simple all in one device. If you’ve got the time, space and money to purchase multiple devices, run multiple cables and have plenty of space to connect speakers, amps, receivers etc all over than a sound bar is a million miles from where you want to be lol. I have a Beam 2 and 2 ikea/Sonos lamps and it works for me as I just didn’t want cables running all over the place. I don’t think anyone ever buys a sound bar because they’re thinking this is the absolute best system I could ever have for movies and music.
Because the fives can not be paired with a tv due to lack of arc input. I want a system for tv and music
Would your room treatment interfere with the sound bar bouncing sounds off walls and ceiling to improve the virtualized surround sound?
I swear in my room the left channel sounds much wider where my Sonos playbase can bounce off a plain wall than the right channel which has curtains and other nik naks to deal with.
I also wonder if you tried comparing the same song from the TV as a source and from the app. I swear it puts a different sound signature where it's expecting TV or film audio from the TV even if it's a music app.
When it comes to soundstage the main advantage stereo speakers has is that you can physically seperate more than the fixed speakers of the ARC. Soundbars are first and foremost designed to be paired with a TV for movies and especially dialogue but if you're after something for just music, you can get better performance from a Stereo Setup for the same price. Thanks for your thoughts John. Always appreciate another Hi-Fi reviewers perspective.
To each his own, but I think you've done a few unfair things:
1. You’re comparing a soundbar designed for a TV/Movies with a HiFi system designed for music.
2. The price for the Sonos Arc includes its ability to connect with other Sonos speakers in the whole house via wifi, Apple Airplay, Alexa, etc.
3. The Sonos Arc can be connected to your Smart Home natively and can run playlist alarms without breaking a sweat. You can change music or volume based on who’s in the room. In short, all the technology that makes it a smarter speaker adds further justification for the higher price.
4. For music, the Arc works best with its sub and surrounds. Obviously, that shoots the price through the roof, but then again Sonos has never targeted the mid-market.
5. TV suggestions: try playing movies like “SEE” on the Apple TV+ or movies with big sound stages such as “The Negotiator”. Dolby also has an app on Apple TV called “Dolby Summit” which will showcase the abilities of the Dolby Atmos on the Arc.
I do agree with you that the Arc does have a delayed catch on to the Dolby Atmos, the first time you switch to music. But it does stay consistent after that.
Could your room treatment effect the sonos - isn’t it designed to bounce sound of walls ?
Was about to say the same, that was my understanding on how the virtual atmos was designed to work.
affect
A few friends of mine have the arc and they are used in simple setups, no dampening or special stuff in the living room. And in 2 cases since they have kids they don't use 5.1 due to cables and stuff. when they come over at my place where I have a full Samsung 5.1 setup they keep looking behind them when they hear something simply because an arc doesn't have rear audio.
However I do know someone who has the arc, sub and 2 ones for rear audio which sounds nice though. However lots of audio delay. Even noticed this myself with just that smaller version of the arc.
The play 5 offers stereo with a single speaker if you put balance to left or right with a song that has clear stereo you can hear it.
@Drew Young it got you to comment. Sonos and Apple 1: you 0
My understanding of how the faux Atmos tech works is by bouncing the sound waves off the walls and ceiling. DO you think your room treatment hamstrings it a bit?
I found this very useful and helpful - thanks!
Love the ‘blows it out of the water, comment! I know how much you love using them - the tongue in cheek was great!
Thanks for demoing this… very interesting. I think I’m going to find it hard pushing past stereo. I like it a great deal.
I've had the complete Arc system for just at 1 year now and while I absolutely love it, you perfectly described the difference between my AudioEngine A5s and the Sonos System. The music through Sonos almost feels like it's a part of the room, whereas a powered stereo pair have that presence you were talking about. Also glad to hear Bright Eyes brought up, been a fan since I'm Wide Awake It's Morning. A band shockingly close to Bright Eyes acoustically I would recommend if you haven't heard them, is "Right Away, Great Captain!".
I was contemplating on whether to go in for sonos beam Gen 2 or go for stereo separates and I guess I have my answer. Thank You!
I wonder how much the acoustic treatment in your room impacts the processed Atmos from the Arc. This kind of Atmos soundbars depend on the reflections from the room surfaces.
So the hifi was better than the Sonos sound bar for listening to music. I think we all kind of guessed that. However it is really good to have a definitive test and our hunches confirmed. However, how did the hifi compare with the sound bar for watching a movie on TV? Was it still better? How was the dialogue and the mix between incidental music and the spoken word? Sometimes I've found watching TV via my hifi a bit too much - great for a movie but over the top for a cooking show or a soap opera.
I’ve got the arc / sub / and two rear ones. Music sounds really good with the whole system. Especially Atmos albums like Yello “point”.. Inxs “kick” … really fun listening.
I switched my HiFi amp (Cambridge Audio) to a Sonos Amp and that solved both the TV sound (using the great Sonos Amp center modulation) and music listening. I do agree though that having a full wireless ecosystem is more convenient and esthetic but then we rely on power cables and potentially more failure points (more hardware and software issues).
Thanks, Darko. Very helpful video.
As a person with a house full of Sonos, I agree with everything you say on here. I have a Sonos Playbar for my main TV because I think it sounds better than the Arc or Beam and I don’t care about fake atmos. But I only use it for streaming background music through the whole house, which it actually works well for. And like you said, it improves the TV speaker experience. With a couple of Play Ones and a Sub you can actually get a decent movie experience with easy set up and whole house compatibility. But I don’t watch much TV, I mostly listen to music and for that I have a proper 2.0 set up in a music room without any Sonos interference. Bowers and Wilkins bookshelves, Shiit Preamp, vintage Sansui receiver, record player and CD player etc. Different things for different purposes
Appreciate your going into connecting lanes and for those of us who do 2.1 channel & headphone centric listening with home theater, gaming and live performance streaming or concert footage. Within an urban residence, my TV set up is in a small entertainment room and found that dynamic powered speakers & open headphones were the preference though open to exploring 5.1 for larger rooms & movies / shows down the line.
Could it be that the soundbar actually relies on reflections from the walls and your listening room is just too well damped and set up for stand mount speakers (since they stand a few meters appart and are facing your listening position, they sound close to ideal)?
I work at an institute with an anechoic chamber. I once brought my JBL Charge 3 there and it sounded awefull but when playing in an untreated room, it sounds quiet good.
Super looking forward to John exploring surround/Atmos going forward
I’ve an Arc + Sub + 2x Play Ones - with music set to full out of the surrounds it’s a great setup, for movies it’s perfect. Yes the Arc by itself or Arc + sub is a little disappointing for music, but that’s not really the intended purpose for this.
Yet to hear a Sonos setup I like for the money. I came to the conclusion that the interface and ease of use has taken priority over the actual sound
I agree, though, for some the interface is the priority and in all truth, they don’t sound at all bad so for the punter who has not demoed the 1000 Euro alternative system and just wants and easy to use Sonos delivers.
Dear John. I have the Arc and love it. For watching TV. For music I completely agree that it’s not optimal. However, I seem to remember that you have a pair of Play Ones. If you set the Arc up with a pair of Ones behind you everything changes. You get an enveloping experience. Admittedly, it’s not purist 2-channel but it sounds pretty damn nice. I use my Arc and Ones and a Sonos Sub for background/casual listening. For concentrated listening I use headphones. The relative best of both worlds. As an aside, you’ve had a cool focus on subwoofers recently. In my experience the best Sonos speaker is their Sub and the ease with which it works with their other speakers. I would take two Ones and Sub over two Fives any day🙂
Great video John!
13:20 - 13:30 might be my favorite Darko moment ever. I knew it was coming, but it still made me laugh, and the bomb drop noise in the background made it 100x better lol.
I’d love to see the same content with 2 Sonos Five instead of Arc.
I would be more interested with a comparison between a pair of Sonos Fives and a conventional hi-fi system.
Soundbars are designed and intended to accompany TVs, and that in itself makes your review an apples-to-oranges comparison.
From the moment I started playing your clip, I expected you'd be disappointed with the Arc as a music system. It is a single-enclosure speaker, after all. Even if you add a Sub and a pair of satellites to it, it doubt it would deliver the kind of experience a hi-fi system would in terms of music sound reproduction.
I know because I have a similar setup at home. I've divided their duties--Sonos home theater system for movies and TV, and a Rotel amp with a pair of bookshelves on stands for music.
I'm pretty certain that If you did the same comparison of Arc vs. hi-fi, but in the context of cinematic audio, the result would be the reverse.
True by it's his patreons picking the gear for this I think
I wish the music industry would focus their efforts on providing well recorded, mixed and mastered stereo, rather than all these gimmicks like atmos and stupid hi-res. Just get 16 bit 44.1 khz right and we would have all we need.
Amen, I’m with you 100%.
But you cant really market 16 44.1 for marketing and getting ''normal'' people to buy things you always need some new exciting tech.
Personally I agree 100% 16 44.1 is fine
Atmos is not a gimic with a proper setup. It is with a sound bar though.
Atmos or even 5.1 is superior to stereo if recorded and mixed well. Obviously, it has technical advantages with more speakers and high-res capability. The technical aspect, as well as more speakers can definitely present a better sound stage. However, I often find that much of the recordings are gimmicky. Like when you hear a guitar solo above your head and not in the front stage.
I totally agree with Darko that I would rather have a good 2.0 or 2.1 sound system over a soundbar but it doesn't beat a good multi-channel system. Quality of recording is often the biggest factor whether stereo or multi-channel.
Having worked in the music industry since 1980 I can assure you that 100% of the effort in making a record is getting the recording, the mixing and the mastering as good as it possibly can be. Modern records are extremely skilfully recorded and mixed. Mastering has been somewhat tainted by fashionable heavy processing, but the people doing the mastering are still very skilled and have amazing ears. I think there is often a confusion between personal taste and what is or isn’t good/right.
This channel nails it. Real world examples l, real world comparisons. Plus my dog loves the music.
Loving the current videos where you are introducing TV sounds and surrouns sound, thank you.
Hi! I had re re-evaluate my opinion of Sonos Arc (+ Sub + 2xPlay:1 surrounds) as music listening system. I purely used it in my TV room for movies.
After Sonos enabled Spatial Audio from Apple Music and I did the necessary software upgrades both for the app and Sonos equipment.
It's really a very different listening experience from stereo and in a good way. I wonder what might you think abpit it ?
I have a Sonos Arc and the soundstage feels a lot wider and taller than what you've shown at 12:00 in the video.
Sonos ARC sounds pretty good with subwoofer and rears.
I run an ARC for TV and some KEF R7s with a 100w tube amp for music.
Exactly. The ARC with the sub and a pair of One surrounds is surprisingly good and incredibly convenient. For when I really want to listen to music, though, I turn to my LS50Ws.
Yup I have the sub also with rears and its all I could ever want for home theatre and a respectable performance for music…
This apples and oranges comparison was super helpful because It clarified fundamental differences between equipment classes that usually don’t get compared.
For me the main reason to go with the HiFi system is that I can upgrade parts when I want
When need some upgrades for the soundbar your only real option is getting a complete new one
This has been the case when everything plugged into everything else. With digital signals and multiple standards that change every few years some part of the system gets out of date and a confusing array of convertors and choices for digital signals; upgrade paths may exist.
Digital processing changes that. DSP works when the designer knows what components are being used hence DSP active speakers sounding better than their passive versions. The only clear way of knowing that all parts work together is getting all new parts.
Now I'd like to know how a dedicated music speaker system sounds. I have the Sonos Arc + 2 Sonos Era 300 speakers in the back + Sonos Subwoofer + Sonos Port to connect to my turntable and it sounds pretty good in my opinion with the full Sonos ecosystem... but again I haven't heard a dedicated hi-fi system.
I would love to know how the Sonos Amp (with the Dalis) would compare against your separates.
This doesn't necessarily go without saying although it does track with your content, but I just want to take a moment to appreciate the audio quality of your videos. I don't know how you record and master them, but the quality is both noted and appreciated.
I'll second that! In the music interludes the sound really comes out at you. Great video and audio content on this channel.
Am I right that we missed the comparison for use with film / TV?
It seems obvious you should buy a hifi for music, but what about use for mainly film/TV, also music?
You are right. i missed it as well. Was wondering how good the stereo setup can manage a movie in comparison to the Arc.
I own both a BOSE Soundbar and a "real" 2ch hifi system (Triangle, Marantz) and I can confirm that I never play music (ok, UA-cam occasionally) through the bar. The separates are so much more musical. Full heartedly understand this comparison and would recommend anyone into buying a system for music, to stick to the ol' fashioned way! Keep rockin' Darko!
Great video - always thought my 2.0 hifi for less than £1000 sounded better than sound bars. Would have liked to hear your thoughts comparing the two setups for tv use - particularly movies.
I enjoyed your video when you first found out subwoofers are fun (Kef), many of us already knew this. The Arc is not a music system, it is for movies. Flip this comparison around, and feed Bladerunner 2049 into your hifi-system, then the Arc, and you'll get it.
12:38 products are about compromises. Like you said, the Sonos soundbar is for someone who does not want bulky speakers in their room, does not want to get separate amps and DAC and in general just want things to sound good. You are essentially paying for convenience vs setting up everything yourself. Your perspective is that of an audio reviewer/expert who knows what they are doing. For most people Sonos will sound good, it’s stupidly easy to setup, has good aesthetics and doesn’t take up too much space. You are sacrificing a bit of sound quality for all these niceties. It’s important to understand this because you are comparing apples to oranges.
Very interesting review, I think it is a case of horses for courses. The ‘soundbar’ is definitely a must have for all new flatscreens but the Sonos system is a trade off for people who want a better flavour without going down the whole surround sound / hi-if route and also like the people who came before them who liked bang and olufsen because the sleek / simplistic design. Quite often we fine ourselves choosing style over substance not to say the Sonos is no good because it does what it does well and I can say this because I have the soundbar / sub / lots of ones knocking around in different setups
I love the Sonos arc for movies in our living room. The wife loves it and it has that clean look and appeal. For music I totally agree with you. For movies the Sonos does some amazing things mainly the dialog clarity
Meanwhile in the bonus room I have my Elac bookshelf hifi system connected to a Sonos Amp for movie nights with the guys
I agree with you completely. I did 3 months with an Arc and my comparably priced stereo and I returned the Arc. My wife is not happy, but I am.
better be single ...less stress and can do the way you like in life, not constantly worry about what others would say or feel in the household...
Thanks for this video. I just set up the Arc, a sub, and two Sonos 1s in my TV room. I think the music sounds ok, but I can completely understand your comment about the soundstage. For that very reason, I plan to also add to that room and stand-alone HiFi system for vinyl and some streaming playback. Cheers!
Can’t agree more with you .. I tried moving from Bose 700 bar + sub to Sonos Arc with sub… but the store person recommended simple hifi system in same price range and I am blown away …. And because of which I am totally getting into it …
Thank you for this very interesting comparison. I have been living with the Arc for over a year. Combined with a sub and two Play 1 rears it provides an easy to use surround system, linked to my Samsung The Frame. Samsung did take over a year! to fix the isse that you could not use the Arc in E-arc mode. Be glad you didn’t have that issue while testing. For ‘easy listening background music’ the SONOS setup is fine but it’s by no means a replacement for HiFi. A few months ago, I got a pair of PMC LB1’s and I dug up my 30 year old Luxman LV92. Linked to a Bluos Node 2 it is way better for music than the SONOS surround system, confirming your findings. Sorry for the long story and keep up the good work. I love your videos!
I love the look of the Dali speakers. Also, thanks for the outtakes. I enjoyed them
I have the ARC paired to a Sub Gen 1 & 2 Play 3s for surround. IMO, the ARC without a Sub is probably only 50% of the experience. Being designed with such small drivers, there simply isn't enough surface area to hit low notes cleanly without distorting the mid range. Adding a Sub relieves the drivers in the ARC of this stress and there is immediate improvement to clarity and soundstage. Imaging is not a thing with soundbars though.. although TruePlay does help
Hi John, maybe the arc + sub + a couple of Sonos ones will change the music experience…arc alone for music - naa, won’t cut it; maybe a couple of Sonos 5’s in your hifi set up??
Have this exact set up and used mainly for films but good for music too
I know you were doing this through the lense of music listening, but would have been interesting to hear your thoughts on how they compared watching a movie
Exactly. From a hardware perspective, the Arc is primarily sold a home cinema device that happens to do music. It's got a solid music app, but hardware wise, it definiely errs on the side of home cinema. It's a little like comparing a Ferrari and Range Rover, but only taking the cars out on a race track.
A Dolby atmos bar needs the walls and ceiling to reflect the sound, and I would, at least add 2 ikea Sonos speakers in the back, with so much acoustic panels, will for sure stop the reflection…
I wonder if the non immersive surround sound is because your room is sound deadened. I think a lot of the virtual atmos soundbars (we have one) rely on sound bouncing and reflecting off the walls. Ours certainly sounded better in a squarer room versus our now larger vaulted ceiling room
I have the Sonos Arc connected to an LG G1 55" and rear left / right ceiling speakers powered by Sonos Amp for 5.1 surround. We mostly use if for movies/TV and it sounds great especially on Dolby Atmos mixes.
For normal ambient music listening Sonos Arc is excellent in that context, but agree it's not for ideal seated focussed listening, which would be better served by a traditional hi-fi speaker, as you have rightly pointed out.
It's useful to compare but somewhat disingenuous as you are not comparing apples to apples. I also personally would never want to combine movies/TV with a hi-fi system, if you really love music then it's always better to have a dedicated set-up with the best equipment for the reproduction of stereo sound.
Have you tried those in non sound treated room? I think for the virtual channels to work, the sound need to properly reflect from walls.
Hi Jhon, i dissagre with you at 3:15. The sonos app allows for playing Atmos music tracks in Atmos format directly from apple music. I did test this on my Sonos Arc + Sub combo. What's crucial is to make sure no other sonos speaker is grouped or else it wont use the Atmos format. Thats also the way i tested:
1. select a track with Atmos over the sonos app and play it on the arc
2. group play it with a sonos five --> song reloads (in stereo format, you can hear that greatly depending on the mix)
3. ungroup again --> sonos app does not automatically switch to Atmos format again
4. select the song again --> sonos arc plays it again with Atmos
I do acknowledge that it is somewhat finicky but it works, atleast for me.
Hey - you are both right haha. His video was a year ago when Apple didnt allow this - In March last year they opened this up to Sonos to coincide with Era 300 release. (so it works fine now) but only - as you said- so long as you dont group with non Atmos capable speakers
I own a Klipsch Cinema 600 (5.2) system and I love it. Awesome for movies. For music, it depends on the recorded source. For example, I can pop on UA-cam and type in “Reference Music” and it sounds amazing. Sometimes other sources only sound ok.
But like you said, You have to spend more money and have a lot more stuff which is what I didn’t want.
I agree with what you said about the Sonos Arc too.
Great Video!
I work in professional audio, and have been delving deeper and deeper into Atmos and other Immersive type audio systems as part of my job, so I know quite a bit about it. Overall your assessment is correct, it’s pretty much a gimmick for music playback at this time, and would take a decade to mature, if ever. It may cross a threshold at some point but for now 2 channel mixing of music has been around for 50 years so there is a lot of maturing to happen for it to overtake (or improve on) existing audio experiences.
As for home listening; I have my TV included in my overall audio system at home, with Sony Bravia as TV and Hegel/Elac + REL sub to replace my TV speakers. Since I still consider myself an ‘audiophile’ at it’s most basic and prioritize music over surround sound, I would NEVER replace this 2.1 setup with a soundbar, no matter how premier it is, even if there are a few negatives when watching well mixed films and TV. And I say this as someone who works professionally in the field.
I did look briefly at adding a Sonos Arc to my games TV in the spare room, as I recently went for a C1 (love it for gaming by the way), but for the money they want I’ll stick to the TV speakers when I do watch TV in there, and use good gaming headphones for gaming. Honestly you nailed it, soundbars for music doesn’t cut it and is a MASSIVE compromise, even at a very basic investment of $ for equipment.
BTW: I was just at ISE 2022 and was given a demo of a product by a Berlin based company called Holoplot. Since you are local, if you want to see what’s happening in the more ‘pro’ end of the spectrum, go to their office and get a demo of their stuff. It’ll show you how clearly companies like Sonos are the followers here, much less the leaders.
Just keen to get your view. So what you are implying is that even for surround sound with SL1 and subwhoofer the sonos system is poor and a 2.1 system will beat it.
For me this does not sound right, as rear speakers do have a huge impact as well as the subwhoofer. I am still interested in your thinking and would appreciate your view on this matter. Its not impossible that I change my mind.
The Arc is useless without the sub. But when paired, it sounds amazing.
Extremely expensive combo!
Only in movies/TV shows and maybe in certain, bass heavy genres of music.
I think a comparison against a Sonos stereo pair might be fairer. I have a pair of the latest Era 300 and find it excellent, the room correction software works really well well. Not counting sheer practicality, lol, no interconnects, speaker cables, no chances of ground loops either…
Great video! I really hope you will also compared Sonos ARC against KEF LSX too!
But surely SONOS have never been about competing with Hi-Fi quality sound, it’s always been about the convenience. I have both SONOS and a dedicated Hi-Fi system setup and use each one depending on what I need it for.
I had the Sonos Arc and I felt like you. I returned whit the 100 days return time and now I have the Kef LSX. What a difference.
I never go back to sound bar.
I have heard a Sonos with sub and two satellites- they sounded great. I have a dedicated 2 channel with tube amp and Sonos sounded just as good- the complete Sonos system is about 3k.
If I had to do this all over again- I would just go with a premium soundbar with sub and satellite
Was this with or without using Sonos Trueplay?
Funny that John would test a soundbar in an acoustically treated room when the whole idea behind soundbars is to reflect audio back at the listener (hence those upward and sideways firing drivers) for that virtualized surround sound experience.
I agree. I have the Arc in a much much smaller room. After set up, I found the sound stage was very wide and immersive. ( the side walls and ceiling were closer). It even seemed to play stereo music! And still immersive and engaging! Added bonus but I am not sure I would ever have designed this, or compared it to HiFi! Since we are going off piste from hifi, what about ceiling speakers!
I mean, comparing any sound bar to dedicated speakers is going to give you the same result. but that isn't a fault with sonos. Arc isn't made for music and it perform far better than 2 channel system like the one shown here for movies. and other visual content. Bass is a huge part of movie watching, audiophiles tend to ignore bass in their music for some reason, but for a movie you want real deep bass, and all the audio action generally happens in front of you and occasionally a stray bullet or something like that properly encoded in a movie track will play acceptably on Arc, so different products made for different uses. and then comes the issue of footprint and the bunch of gear issue he mentioned in the video.
We love our Sonos system, but admittedly we did go straight in with a 5.1 system of the original playbar, sub, and 2 x Play1s in the rear. The soundbar was since upgraded with the Arc. Now I know this isn't the subject of your video (comparison for audio system under EUR 1000), but I just wanted to point out that with Amazon Unlimited there are a number of Dolby Atmos tracks that can be played direct from stream, rather than via a TV with EARC. I too have made a playlist of these, and more are constantly being added. Atmos really works well in this scenario.
I know some people play music via the TV, and that the Sonos does a great job of improving the sound from the TV. But I've always kept the systems separate - with a dedicated hifi system for music and TV/Sonos for the Tv/films. Some may say its overkill and unnecessary to have a separate hifi system when it's perfectly possible to stream music via the Sonos. But for me I want to enjoy the music in the best way possible.
Hey you got the Frame!
Just auditioned the arc and found the exact same. One thing that works for me in making my Dali Oberon 3 speakers less intrusive, is placing them on isoacoustics mini-pucks on a wide tv bench under the tv. Cheers.
Nice video! Would you recommend to use Sonos amplifier with those hifi speakers?. I really like Sonos systems but I do love to hear hifi music. There is some way to have the best from both options? Thank you!
I wonder if this would work better in an untreated room with a more reflective upper mid.
I dont think a soundbar is there to compete against regular hifi speakers + amp combos, its more for people who dont want or cant have a lot of such devices in the room.
You didn't say how the TV sounded through the hifi. How did that compare to the Sonos?
Hey John, I see you swooped out the LG for the Frame. I’ve been meaning to get one for my new place. What do you think of it?
One point I thought of is that the Sonos is somewhat designed to "bounce" sound off the walls and ceiling to give it a more open soundstage. However, I'm pretty sure John has sound deading material on the walls that may decrease the performance. That said, the Arc is really designed for home cinema and not music. Perhaps a fairer test would be using 3 Play 1's (left right center) and see how that sounds or perhaps to Play 5 as he mentioned.
Sonos have "Loudness" enabled by default on all their speakers. It's the first thing I disable for a more natural sound.
How come there are no such tiny subwoofers as the ones built into the Sonos bar?
and if your room is not too large I would also go for KEF LSX and skip the amp if space is of concern. and you can still buy a decent dac for those if you wish.
Y el sonido envolvente?
KEF LSX doesn't have HDMI, only LSX II does but its price is well above 1000EUR.
So many reviewers posit the Arc as the best thing since sliced bread: but I thank you for rewarding my subscription with integrity John.
From today onwards, I'm calling soundbars 'Tube Speakers' and nothing else 😆
Stereo is great but Atmos has the ability to create a far more immersive experience. It is the way of the future. Mixing engineers are mostly still learning the techniques and they’ll get more creative (surround has been a novelty in music until the last couple of years). I think Atmos in headphones has a lot of room for improvement though.
I would have agreed with the conclusions on the Arc soundstage until I ended up buying one for a second tv watching setup and got the sub and surrounds. I have a stereo system in the same room and was shocked by the soundstage the full Arc system created. Not quite as razor sharp in imaging as the 2.0 but all most will need for an immersive experience. I think judging the Arc on its own is almost like reviewing a stereo system with one speaker 😊
Great review as always but I think the comparison with a dedicated hifi is a little apples and pairs as each is going to what the other doesn't do well, better. One does TV and movies really well but can also play music ok'ish. The other plays music really well but can play TV and movies but ok'ish. I own an arc, sub and 2 play 1s in a listening room for my TV and it sounds fantastic with none of the wires etc I wouldn't ever listen to music on it and as you say. If anyone buys it just for music then they have been mis-sold as Sonos have "hifi" speakers dedicated to music.
What i understand he is saying is that even for playing movies, the stereo image and sound stage of the hifi system is better than the atmos mode of the sound bar.
And it totally makes sens to me. Even the most impressive sound bars out there can't compete with proper stereo system, let alone proper suround systems.
The only upsides of sound bars are there size and simplicity of use. And for some people, this is important.
@@eEridani I didn't take that away but maybe you are right. Owning an arc and having a much higher spec hifi in the room that was tested here, I still believe the Sonos arc will far about perform most stereo hifi for TVs and movies. It digs really deep, certainly deeper than those Dali's, is highly entertaining but also it does a much better job with voice and effects than a stereo hifi. Anyhow, with surround play 1s and a sub it entertains me and my family incredibly well along side and not intruding into workings of my dedicated hifi. Listening to music through av amps is God aweful so the Sonos arc etc is a great solution in my case, i.e. it needed to sit next to a high spec hifi.
The reason I think most people get a sound bar for their TV rather than a hi-fi system is the *size limitation* of the room, not music quality.
Please try the sony ht a9
I use a beam with two Ikeas at the rear. It works pretty well. Only a little bit meh as long as you don't AB it with stereo system. Surround effects are good and lends some space to the music. It has its moments.
Reviewing sonos arc is… a difficult thing. I own one, bought sub and rear speakers to it later. I remember my disappointment when I first installed it in my living room. Tried using trueplay several times but the music sounded very artificial… very weird. Movies were great, it’s obviously built for that in the first place. Then I’ve used different device for tuning, this time my old ipad pro. The difference was like night and day. Later I’ve added sub to the mix, which now I think is mandatory for this sub, that’s how much it changed the whole experience. In many things I agree with this review, however I don’t have an issue of how “wide” this soundbar sounds, since mine is sometimes as close as to having a pair of headphones on my head (before I’ve added rear speakers). But my room is much smaller than his, I don’t have a space for dedicated left and right speakers - that’s why I’ve bought a soundbar instead of separate speakers. I can’t recommend this soundbar to someone who got space for speakers next to the tv, but as a soundbar it’s amazing. Watching movies and series is such great experience, but with music listening I agree with the reviewer here, not the best system for the money.
I own a Arc as a compromise with my wife and it’s great for home theater and pretty darn good for convenience music listening. You definitely need to do the TrueSound room calibration though. It helps immensely.
Hi John, I wish you would have also included a comparison with a stereo system based on the Lyngdorf 1120. Thus comparing two different room correction systems. It would also have been interesting to have a living room home theater comparison between the Sonos Arc and stereo Lyngdorf system.
Agree with your assessment of the sound of the Arc for music, but personally still find it absolutely worthwhile because my priority for it is movies and TV. They sound incredible on the arc, with well rounded sound, shaking bass effects, and really crisp dialogue which is something I often have a problem hearing on stereo speakers. I also agree that it doesn't live up to the advertised idea of it being surround sound all in one; those side speakers don't replace true surrounds. That being said your setup is also a factor I think. You have tons of room treatment on the walls and ceiling to cut down on reflections, but those reflections are exactly what Sonos uses to create the surround sound and Atmos effects. When you break them up, you won't get those results. You're also quite far back from the sound bar, the ideal position for the Atmos effect depends on your ceiling height. I think they should angle the height driver's more, but you may get better results if your MLP is closer.
In the end I decided I wanted both; I still have my bookshelf speakers connected to my turntable and Volumio Rpi, and I'm running the Sonos arc with the TV. Plan on expanding to the sub and surrounds. You're right that it's not a good fit for people who prioritize music, but if you want simplicity and good TV audio, it's way up there.
Add the Sub and 2 one sls it will blow you away on a different level
Have you reviewed the Cambridge Evo One? I am thinking about that for music and use with my tv. Thanks
I actually think this is a surprisingly useful comparison. If you're considering upgrading the sound of your TV with a nice soundbar, it's good to know that a 2 channel hifi system works just as good or better for movies and you get a free hifi for music. Not a bad deal. The one nice thing about the Sonos is that it takes up less space physically and visually which matters for a lot of people. Usually those people are phobic to the idea of adding an extra box and a couple extra wires. As my old German mechanic used to tell me, there's an ass for every seat.
The problem is that he didn’t really compare the soundbars TV performance to the HiFi’s TV performance.
It could be that the soundbar blows the hifi out of the water when watching tv and movies, in part due to the deeper bass.
Thanks John, these kinds of comparisons are very interesting. I'd love to know how similar priced 'Pro audio' gear compares too. You know, like a pair of active studio monitors or a 2.1 system. Any plans for something like that?