ACCURASCALE CLASS 37 ISSUES at Chadwick Model Railway | 212.
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- The Accurascale Class 37 is truly a great model, but it does have its issues.
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I have spent thousands with accurascale. Five locos and 100 wagons and coaches. The detail and look of them are without a doubt the best out here. But the quality control and drivability is appalling. One of my 37 dcc chips didn’t even work and took 3 months for a replacement. Both 37s come off the track like yours. All three 55’s sit unused due to being too fragile and not able to negotiate anything but perfect track(all 50 of my non accurascale locos are fine). You’re correct the back to back of the wheels they have been all over the shop. I had a whole batch of wagons that were all way out, Accurascale told me it was bad batch. I really hope they pay attention and sort these quality issues out, we don’t buy these just to look at, we need to run these on our layouts too!
Thanks, R23, for sharing your dreadful situation. Regards, Charlie
This market obsession with over detail from the smaller manufacturers has clearly got out of hand. IMO, Bachmann and Heljan have struck the balance spot on.
That is a terrible state of affairs with your AccurascaleI models. they seem to have big problems. I also think that the obsession with detail has gone way too far. I would prefer less detail but solid engineering and running quality over fiddly detail that you can't see from more than a couple of Cm from and drops of any way.
@@KayDee73Agreed! Add Sutton Class 24/25 into that list too as they are solid.
Agree with what you say about detail. As modellers we want plenty of detail but buying “Ready to Run” should at least mean you don’t receive a model that has reduced itself to a “kit of parts” before it’s even been placed on the rails. @@jamier9627
I'm pleased to report that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Thanks guys.
Excellent stuff, thats very mind of them
so have they fixed the issue or is it just going to return with this new decoder?
Issues occur. The sign of a good company is how they deal with them. On this matter: Accurascale 10/10, Hattons 0/10
Result. However, were Accurascale forthcoming with any advice on how they propose to deal with the sound issue generally? I have a single sound 37/0 but don't have a layout to run it. I am worried that there may be a problem waiting to be discovered in a year or so, when the warranty has ended and I run it for the first time.
Anyhow, great stuff, as always.
Bob
@@peterwalker6535 i wouldnt even give hattons a 0
Hi Charlie glad the problems are being sorted. From my days of running a retail business I would say that Hattons were legally obliged to fix the class 37, but as the loco had been modified they would not be required to give a refund. Your friend Lance asked for a refund, what Hattons should have replied was 'sorry no, but we will fix it for you...' I think. Looking at the bigger picture it appears that Accurascale should do a recall and sort out the issues with a decoder's if it is proved that their design is at fault. Personally I'm glad I run mainly Lima, no problems, dead cheap, no detail bits to break all the time and you can fix them simply all day long... (lol)
Sent my 37 back ,,motor issues ,,,i`ve got 20 year old Lima loco`s which run all day long on dcc..even put cd drive motors in some and they go like stink ...... 👍👍
Fortunately, Accurascale will replace Lance’s defective decoder. Regards, Charlie.
Very interesting video Charlie. Thank you for imparting more of your wisdom and in depth research. All the best!
For all their problems mainly nosiness, less than butter smooth at slower speeds the Lima pancake and Hornby ring motors are highly reliable and easy to fix.
This is where a channel like yours earns its money. These are expensive toys and should have no issues at least for the first 3 years. It should be not needed to put pressure on the manufacturer to replace the parts that malfunction . Quality service is what makes a brand great.
I couldn’t agree more Dutchman. Regards, Charlie.
3 years??? There's plenty of Hornby Dublo locos still running after 60+ years!
Oh yes for sure. Here in my country we have a group or 2 thats dedicated to make models (SAR) they are generally good to high qualty but very expensive and i mustered only 1 model from a group have the loco 6 yrs now. But there are others that just do there own thing(well intending)but do not provide models with integrity. And some end up buying these models with a lot of expenses paid and got back poor quality. I have called out 1 group in particular and they never replied 😅because they knew i was right and onto them. I think the time is close when we might have to consider making our own stuf(locomotives)which will be another mission in it self. Some here have tried. Or they modify radically and fail miserably. Others jus want to enjoy the hobby even with constraints. So much is still to be said and done when it comes to rail modelling as a hobby
Sale of goods act determines that something should be sold fit for purpose, you can't avoid this by terms and conditions in the warranty.
An excellent point Graham. Many thanks, regards, Charlie
My 37 also derailed due to a rocking bogie. However, I inserted two 1cm x 1cm 2mm thick foam squares at the rear of each bogie (one behind the other), and the problem was solved. The foam (bought from a local craft and hobby shop) has a sticky backing which enabled me to fix it to the underside of the main body. It provides a cushioned surface which allows the bogie to move over any undulations in the track, while considerably reducing the rocking motion. I ran the loco with a couple of coaches at full power round a simple oval on Peco Code 100 track with 2nd radius curves and it performed beautifully.
Many thanks for such an extremely interesting comment. Could you send any photos of your modification to Chadwick Model railway@gmail.com? Regards, Charlie
forgive me if you disagree but please stop buying Accurascale locos never want one never will Bachmann all the way for me great video Charlie :)
ohh just to say they will send you a customers return if you send your loco back 8 models shops in hampshire refuse to stock Accurascale they all told me its like banging your head on the wall with them !
Cheap and Nasty Accurascale
Gosh, Phil, that’s shocking. Regards, Charlie
As always thanks for a balanced honest video, whilst most people agree the accurascale models are breath taking in their detail there’s been to many people on other sites moaning about quality of finish, poor running, issues with decoders. I have given up with my 37 it’s sitting on the side as a very expensive static model I actually wished I never bought it. As you say we live and learn 😃 Happy New Year
An interesting comment, however, you didn’t mention what was wrong with it. Regards Charlie
What kind of issue are you having with it?
I’m waiting on my accurascale 37 with all the bells and whistles it’s due later this year. Seeing it’s not a cheap model but it looks so good and the write up sells it to me. Do I accept the model or if it doesn’t do what is said on the box return for a refund? Again Charlie your UA-cam videos are exceptional 😊😊
Well done, Charlie! It is sometimes necessary for one to stand up and call out manufacturers/vendors which do not take care of their customers. We spend precious specie for these items, and ofttimes the product is substandard. Your video will help them remember where their bread is buttered. Thanks for your courage and candor!
Thanks Pat, that was very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie
Thank you Charlie. Over the last year I have been continuously warning of all these issues with Accurascale's models. The factory wrongly wired speaker configuration has also been highlighted by Richard at Roads and Rails The Motors fail too (on all classes) putting a strain on the ESU decoder as it has to increase the motor output current to maintain speed. Peter at Torridon Road YT channel did two videos on this a couple of months ago. Accurascale also have various other problems with intermittent directional lights randomly working and then not...... Accurascale's models continue to have issue. I have experienced a 75% failure rate from 12 Accurascale locos ,on classes 55, 92 and 37! Perhaps people will now start to believe my comments instead of attacking them! Regards Julian
If you e had 75% failure rate there must be something wrong with your layout mate. If that was the norm accurascale would be bust not winning awards ! I assume you’ve given them the chance to fix your issues if possible
@@Ste1952 I mean this in the kindest possible way; you sound like yet another ignorant denier, smitten by their products and abandoning objectivity and not much experience. Don't shot the messenger, I'm on the modeller's side here! Their locos usually work for a while, and then the problems start....I speak from having owned 12 of their locos, how about you?
Being an ex electro mechanical engineer, owning around 200 locos and having a 33 x 11 foot layout, I'm probably better qualified to comment on Accurascale's locos wouldn't you agree?
All the best.
Thanks for your comments gentlemen, there appears to be some shocking tales of woe around. Regards, Charlie
@@theeventhorizon-valebridge9512 No offense either and i own about two dozen accurascale locos and many many multiples that of others. I’ve sent back three Bachmann 47’s and one of their 37’s for motor issues and all the accurascale have been perfect. From an RMweb post they’ve made 18000 37’s so numerically even a dozen or so ‘issues’ is minuscule compared to the normal failure rate of any manufacturer. Any time i’ve contacted accurascale support they have been prompt, friendly and helpful with no messing about so I suggest they are on side of the modeller too (look at the improvement ts in the deltic etc based on feedback) and as a young company challenging the status quo and rediculous pricing they should be supported and given the benefit
of the doubt not vilified over some support issues that pale in comparison to problems i’ve had with recent hornby locos for example
@@Ste1952 Hello again, how lovely to hear from you. I agree with your sentiments and most of what you've said, you're obviously a serious modeller with longstanding experience.
There are certainly issues with all the main manufacturers, however, you being in denial of others who've experienced problems with Accurascale's locos is plainly a ridiculous stance, naive and asinine.
Just because you've not had problems yourself, doesn't mean you can therefore dismiss any others who have out of hand, and with such arrogance! I've heard many reports of various issues, especially motor failures across YT, including many prominent YT channels such as this video, from Charlie's Chadwick, and Peter Dixon's Torridon Road, Eugene at EuviRail and Michael Smith and Graham Foulston with their respective Lakeside layouts to name but a few.
Accurascale's models are superb but flawed with factory manufacturing issues. Perhaps it's teething problems, I hope they sort it out because their locos could be market leading, if they prove reliable. They are currently not, with frequently failing motors, sound decoders and lighting.
Their customer service is great and from my own experience it's the only reason I still buy any of their products. I only buy direct from them as the retailers are not so cooperative dealing with the issues, as Charlie and his friend found out from Hattons in this very video regarding replacing the sound decoder!
I suggest you step back, get off your high horse, take note of and accept other's real life experiences, rather than remaining completely dismissive and wearing rose tinted spectacles whilst being blissfully ignorant in a denier's bubble.
This now concludes all our communications, thank you. All the best my fellow modeller.
I agree with hattons stance. When I worked for a model shop we had customers return "faulty" locomotives that had been weathered, some at a professional level with the various common faults described in this video, and we'd send them off, or attempt to fix and we'd find they'd butched the electronics or had completely swapped the chips for non sound ones. One guy ended up with a fraud charge and 14 month suspended sentence for his efforts
I was astounded to realise that fitting the snow ploughs would cancel your warranty. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway problem is for every capable person, there's 5 who'll use half a tube of uhu glue for it and try to claim under warranty for the problems caused.
On the issue which Lance had, I think it is unreasonable to expect Hattons to refund a locomotive which has been weathered. Weathering will cover the body and chassis. I do think Hattons could have handled it better, by suggesting that they'd repair the item if faulty rather than just saying no to the refund (since it seems at least debatable whether weathering and adding a crew would have caused the fault seen). But you need to be sure you are going to keep a locomotive before you start modifying it.
Also as noted elsewhere, Accurascale worked closely with ESU on the design of the electronics on their models. So comments claiming that the design is flawed are made without any real evidence and are rather unfair to Accurascale in particular.
I've got a number of Accurascale locomotives and I've been very pleased with them. Only one had an issue requiring after sales service and Accurascale promptly exchanged it. It seems that the extra detail of recent locomotives can show up problems with trackwork and electrics which hadn't previously been apparent. Any models which have sold as well as the Accurascale ones will have some small proportion of quality control problems. Tesla (whom you mentioned) are not exactly known for build quality, speed of repair or willingness to admit faults on their vehicles. I'd like to see someone repaint their Tesla Model 3 and then try and get a refund if they find a fault with it. I think Accurascale are to be commended on how they respond to issues.
Very much agree here. Look what we are getting for £169. Accurascale are new and young and things are bound to happen but their rate of scale of issues pales in comparison to the established boys. Who remembers the scrum at Warley for Bachmann ‘seconds’. Accurascale outsourced the electronics to eSU. I have an ecos and trust esu to know what they are doing over, no offense, airchair experts. Accurascale are to be encouraged and congratulated for how they’ve shaken up the market. I’d given up buying models until they arrived on the scene
Many thanks for your comment. However, do you not agree that there is clearly some fundamental issues with the class 37 design? There are a wealth of comments here with people with real issues. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway It’s easy to comment online I trust accurascale and ESU know what they are doing
@@ChadwickModelRailway I’m not sure that anyone other than Accurascale can comment on the level of returns/repairs. And from their comments elsewhere I don’t believe the proportion is worse than expected. So I don’t believe there is any fundamental design issue and I’d trust ESU to know what they are doing.
That doesn’t mean that some people won’t see issues, or that 100% of the models produced are perfect. But I think it unfair to blow this up into some massive issue without concrete evidence. Those with problems will always be more ready to comment than those happily running their models.
My opinion, which I offer "without prejudice" is that Hattons trading policy verges on sharp practice. If you call and get the standard "this call may be recorded for security and training purposes" then after finishing your conversation request a copy of any recording made.
That’s interesting James, but are they obliged to give you a copy? Regards, Charlie
I am not a lawyer but having read one legal firm's comment about the DPA it stated that this is regarded as a ! Perhaps a legal beagle might give a clearer response.@@ChadwickModelRailway
Last comment should have read as a GREY AREA!
Great upload Charlie, fancy upsetting Hattons so much they are closing down now 🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
😢 I wonder how many local model railway shops have had to close because of pressure from these monster box shifters?
@@ChadwickModelRailway had many of pre order issues with hattons then you get that email saying they cant get stock etc, so stopped using them , use rails now for pre orders , they not going to be interested if anybody has brought of them recently and have issues like that 37 you highlighted
Frankly Hattons are out of order in my opinion. What they are claiming is doing anything aesthetically, or externally voids the warranty, then if that is the case, surely they are saying do not attach the accessories that come in a bag with models, as the loco is "no longer in the condition it was sent", again, total nonsense, the warranty under law would not be void by adding those, nor would doing anything externally impact the workings of the decoder, speakers or motor. Plus usually a weathering is cosmetic only and can usually be washed off. Hattons are just washing their hands of responsibility in a lazy manner in my opinion, they could've easily replaced the decoder and claimed back off Accurascale, or sent it back to Accuraacale for a new decoder and any updates/upgrades. Great to hear Accurascale stepping up though and taking responsibility for a flaw in their model, I've heard nothing but good things from Accurascale, who actually do seem to care about their customers. Consumer law clearly states the customer has a contract with the retailer, and Hattons are using T&Cs as a soft wall to put people off pushing back further, so even if not the best look, Accurascale are legally correct in saying it's a Hattons' problem if a customer purchased through a 3rd party, i.e. not direct from Accurascale.
At least Accurascale have offered to replace the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
I won't talk about hattons customer service.
I calling in to make a simple purchase and was ignored by staff who were on the phone.
I hade to go outside and then phone up before anybody would talk to me
What is dreadful state of affairs. No wonder they gave up. Regards Charlie.
The attitude of Hatton's and the product produced by Accurascale are frightening. Both these companies sell online around the World and generally they both respond positively. What went wrong and why is this happening with such a "perfect" product. Firstly Hatton's is just plain wrong, clearly Accurascale will take the product back so why not help deal with the problem. I believe that Vertical Curve ??? should be considered by a manufacturer (Accurascale). Others have reviewed this model with a featured vertical curve on a curve and simply state it did not work on that part of the track. What if your track is not perfect, the real railway is not always perfect and the Class 37 was designed in an era when the track work was not the best. Very expensive product not really suitable for and average model railway..... My comments have been passed on to Hattons and Accurascale.
Thanks George, I admire your stance. Regards, Charlie
Something to keep in mind for interest and useful to know., since I have never seen it mentioned in railway modelling. In a longbase wheelset of more than two axles the back to back should not be the same. Prototype railways or railroads worked this out in the 1870s as locomotives got bigger. In general the inner axles should have a smaller back to back distance. It is easy to see why by drawing an arc of two rails and drawing a rectangle over it at various points. American Steam Locomotives: Design and Development, 1880-1960 mentions the topic.
What’s a very interesting point Thorin. Regards, Charlie.
I have accurascale MK5s with lights that didn't work out of the box, and they never responded to my emails regarding this issue. They produce great models, but in my experience their customer service is lacking (I've even had my intelligence called into question by Fran Burke in a previous email thread)
I’m so sorry to hear of your shocking treatment.
Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie.
I hear they’re going to make a movie about you - “Hattons, my part in their downfall” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’ll check with my agent!
😜
If you want to depress yourself, look at the pages and pages of sentimental twaddle on the RMWeb Hattons closure thread. Anything other than over the top endorsement for the Big H is blocked by Andy York as being political!@@ChadwickModelRailway
Hi Charlie,
Happy New Year!
I think that your Tesla comparison is incorrect. You mentioned that Lance had requested a refund from Hattons and they declined because the loco had been weathered. If you bought a Tesla and painted it another colour but then the motors failed, I would imagine they would also decline a refund request. They would probably offer to fix the motors though. Lance should ask Hattons/Accurascale for a replacement chassis or a new sound decoder.
Your comment about how good it looks despite it not being able to stay on the track when going down a curved incline, reminded me about Range Rover ownership. They look great parked on your driveway or when seen on the road but less so when something (and it often does!) goes wrong and it is in the garage.
Does the loco also derail when it is ascending your helix, particularly when it reaches the top and levels out?
Best wishes,
Steve
Many thanks for your comment Steve. However, there are many comments from folks with similar derailing issues without the complication of using a helix. Regards, Charlie
Not a great advert for Hattons. I had a problem along the same lines a few years ago with a purchase via Rails of Sheffield. Rails replaced the sound DCC free of charge. I said I was happy to change the chip myself, so was all done via mail. That’s customer service.
Yes, that was a much better response. Regards, Charlie
Hattons seem a bit confused. A returns policy relates to the extent to which a retailer is willing to forego his right to regard a sale as a finally performed contract, under which a consumer has no right to return goods he has bought merely because he has changed his mind. However the law requires goods to be of merchantable quality and if something fails shortly after purchase because of a manufacturing or latent defect then the purchaser should have a remedy . If the goods cannot be repaired then their cosmetic condition is irrelevant. If they can be repaired - e.g new decoder and speaker set up, then there must be an argument that Hattons should do that.
Either way, Rick, Accurascale are replacing the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
Hello Charlie, I owned a hobby shop here in New Zealand for just on 24 years. In a situation like this we would have accepted the model and returned the model back to the manufacturer for a replacement, repair or credit, which we would have returned to our customer. I can understand Hatton’s reluctance somewhat, as not all customers are 100 % honest. As an example, early on one of our staff exchanged Scalextric slot-car that had stopped working with no questions asked, only to find on examination later in the day that the customer had removed the electric motor. We were only caught out once with this trick. Regards Barry
Oh Barry, that clearly is gross dishonesty. Regards, Charlie
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Hi Charlie, I have 2 x Accurascale class 37’s so far they have been fine, my network rail class 97 is very delicate and fragile when you pick it up incorrectly, I found this out and it got damaged, Accurascale sent me a replacement part many weeks later.
Do you think DC Kits have any issues like the sound packing up on their Esu V5 sound decoders with Legomanbiffo sound files on? Richard at Roads and Rails commented on removing the sugar cube speaker and replacing the EM1 speaker with a new type with a built in sugar cube speaker, I may go down this route if it protects the sound decoder from being overloaded and blowing in the future. I have heard there are issues with the sound decoders and the motors, Accurascale produced a great deal of these cool locomotives in a short space of time and they were let down by microchip shortages world wide, at least they sort out the issues unlike some other manufacturers, thanks for sharing.
I think the replacement speaker Avenue is the one to travel down. Regards, Charlie
Glad to hear that Accurascale have accepted their responsibilities however seems a shame that such great looking models from a relatively new manufacturer seem to have issues and not just hearing this about their class 37.
As for Hattons, if Accurascale had not stepped in, I think yor friend would have had a very strong case under the Sale of Goods Act (1979I think). Hattons are the retailer and therefore responsible for either repair, replacement or refund. Their own terms do not over-ride their obligations under the laws of England and Wales. The fact that Lance has painted the model and fitted a model driver in the cab cannot be argued as affecting the fact that Hattons have supplied a defective item and well within its reasonably expected operating life.
I have had this sort of argument with various retailers and products but not model railway related. Not lost an argument yet so pretty sure of my ground here!
On a lighter note, my old Triang class 37 from the late 1960s that I inherited from my late father is still running well. Plenty of sounds but not from any onboard loudspeakers, no derailments and the only chips involved are from over fifty years of playwear!
Many thanks for an excellent comment John. Stay safe, regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailwayQuite a shame as I was thinking about saving up for one of their Irish outline locos being Irish myself. Guess if I was to get an Irish loco Murphy models it is.
So Hatton's are saying you can't do anything with a loco i.e. weather it etc until it's out of warranty then you can do what you like with it? If a piece of equipment is faulty from manufacture, then it needs to be repaired, providing that any modification has not impacted on the fault.
I think trading standards might be interested in this one?
Yes, this one’s a bit of a shocker. Regards, Charlie
CHARLIE !
Back to Back gauges will NOT work properly unless fully inserted between the wheels. Which is why they come with axle slots in them. But you have a second issue, your using old pre NEM code 100 track intended for use with old code 100 wheelsets that had thicker flanges, hence a SMALLER back to back measurement !!!! But all the stock I can see on your layout appears to be produced for Code 75 track, so has thinner flanges with a slightly larger/wider Back to Back measurement. Indeed the square block B to B gauge seen is I suspect a proper code 75 gauge !!!
Having said that, rolling stock & locos must have their B to B measurements within ONE thousandth of an inch of the Code 75 requirement. Problems of mixing code 100 & code 75 products which have two different sets of measurements are virtually un-resolvable ! These issues were foreseen and mentioned in the modelling press back in the late 1980's soon after the NEM Conferences technical changes for European outline models were published. But many today, seem to have either forgotten the NEM Conference and its resultant actions, or indeed are too young to have ever known of its existence. And that sadly includes newer manufacturers !!!
I do take your point, as I mentioned in my previous comment. As for the slot in the back to back gauge, that’s not always the case. If you remove the drive wheels, often you can’t get a back-to-back gauge in, due to the gear being in the way!
Weathering a loco should have nothing to do with the electronics or sound or even the motion of a loco. It’s obviously an electrical issue not a visual issue, they should just take the body off and put it on another chassis, why is it so hard to?
Poor customer support. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie. I have suffered problems with my Accurascale class 37 as well. Problems with going round bends and derailing and motor issues, it has been back for repair 3 times at Accurascale. I have had enough and got a refund. Replaced it with a Bachmann model with no problems at all. My model was a DCC ready version.
Still a sad situation Stephen Regards, Charlie
What i'm not understanding here is why everyone is saying Accurascale are so great in replacing something they supplied that was faulty and that Hattons are the bad guys in not giving Lance a refund on a product that is not in the condition it was sold in , which is perfectly correct for them to do as far as i see it
Thanks Shaun, I think people were upset with Hattons’s attitude. Regards, Charlie
Thanks for highlighting this issue Charlie and Lance and what was needed to fix it. Great to hear Accurascale stepped up to the mark. Your analysis of symptoms helps us all if we have problems.
Not sure Hattons come out of this looking top notch, which is a shame
indeed, somewhat lacking on the customer service front
Being the biggest retailer doesn’t necessarily make you the best! Regards, Charlie
If the gloves had to come off then trading standards would quote that goods have to be of merchantable quality?? Which seems that the 37s fail or at least the chips do?
I'll partially defend Hattons response here. Firstly, lets clarify, when you buy something, your contract is with the retailer and this is where you should return faulty goods. The retailer can be go-between to the manufacturer for repairs etc.
Lance had weathered and altered the loco at the time he asked for a refund, I don't see how Hattons are hiding behind T&Cs here as these are standard and expected T&Cs agreed to when purchasing, they were correct to refuse the full refund. I didn't take from that response that Hattons were refusing further repair or replacement of an individual component, only refund of the entire item. The only thing I would criticise in their response was to not make it clear that further repair was still an option.
Many thanks for your comment, however, accurascale have offered to exchange the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
I had problems with the new Bachmann 37 struggling on bends and particularly peco curved points they would'nt take the inside leg at all. All the older Bachmann 37s take all these fine BTW. My new Accurascale 37 hasn't given me any problems fortunately. I'm running DC so no decoder issues have to say the Accurascale 37 has some of the best low speed running of any model I own.
Thanks Paul, for the insight into your layout. Regards, Charlie
Interesting issues you've experienced, I hope in future this won't be an issue. Haven't heard of similar issues to other models.
Hattons respons was a bit like I expected. They could have suggested getting a new decoder, these are not hardwired, and with the quick fix from Accurascale that would solve all.
Thomas,
Yes Thomas, it’s not very reassuring when you have to experience these negative responses from manufacturers and suppliers. I'm pleased to report that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Regards, Charlie
Hello Charlie! I have never commented on your page here before, although I have been an ardent follower for sometime now, watching with fascination your work on getting the 2 helix set ups going, doing your wiring, the DCC bits and bobs and so on. I must commend you on your delivery style, so easy and fun to watch and listen to! I am in Canada, so taking a decision to obtain one of the newly released locos for OO for my layout, which is DCC, involves taking the chance that should something not work, the process of sending it back for repairs or replacement is daunting to say the least! While I would still promote using a local dealer here that stocks this kit, some of the new stuff does not arrive on these shores soon enough to satisfy some of us British Railway modelers! I was sincerely considering putting my good money down and getting one of these Class 37s from Accurascale, but now will wait to see what happens. I am also very fond of the Class 37 and have quite a few on my layout, incl one from Bachmann with a Loksound V5 decoder, and very nice it is, runs superbly! Thanks for your videos and information, this is what makes this hobby so much more interesting! Happy New Year to you!
Thanks A7308, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Good luck with your project, regards, Charlie
Unfortunately these days a local supplier is as rare as rocking horse droppings. Only today I had to drive 6 miles to an appointment and noted that I passed 3 shops which were model railway dealers. Two are now hairdressers and the other a coffee shop.
I have the same issue with my Accurascale Deltic keeps derailing on curves whilst my Bachmann ones don't on the same bit of track, and yet my 37 doesn't derail at the same spot. The only problem I had with one of my 37s was when you started it up it would start up then died when I informed Accurascale they told me to alter CV63 to 150 and now works fine.
Yes Alastair, changing CV63 to 150 turns down the volume. This should stress the amplifier less, stopping it overheating. It’s a bit of a sticking plaster job. Regards Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Yet the other the 37 I have didn't have any issues with sound!
Hi again Charlie
Another entertaining and informative session.
Nice to hear honest assessments without fear or favour.
I have heard of issues with their class 55 Deltics also . From what I have read accurascale seem to be very reasonably priced for what is on offer ? Maybe quality control comes at a price?
Happy new year mate and many thanks for your efforts. Love the way you analyze the problems step by step.
Regards Howard
Thanks Howard, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Have a great 2024, regards, Charlie
Just a quick follow up.
Sitting reading a review in a reputable model railway magazine dated late last year.
Accurascale class 37 was given a raving revue. Faultless in all categories.
Not the magazine's fault. Obviously their supplied example was just that.
To me however it does make a bit of a mockery of such reviews to which a lot of us do rely on.
Manufacturers are obviously going to go over the proposed offering with a very fine tooth comb
Long before it's delivered for assessment. Thank goodness for people like Charlie and All you others
Involved in our wonderful hobby that keep us reliably informed by sharing your successes and more importantly I guess, your failures.
Maybe these magazine's should arrive unexpectedly at the retailer, select One of the proposed examples for review, Off the shelves
In the box and go from there. This would be far more accurate, including bits falling off as unpacked Up to running in .
Thanks to Charlie and you people I now know what to avoid, now and in future.
Keep modeling.
Howard
Charlie
The centre axle issue is exactly the same with my Accurascale Class 55 Deltic. I have one small vertical curve problem which I didn't know that I had until the Class 55 went over it. The locomotive is very heavy which may exacerbate the problem. I am now getting problems with motor, maybe for the same reason. I am wondering if Accurascale are keeping the cost down by sourcing, shall we say, not the best possible quality products.
Kind regards
Robert Biggs
That’s most interesting Robert. Do you keep an eye on the expiry date of your warranty. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, Although your video was only posted 3 hours ago I see that the issue has been resolved and 285 people have already commented before me so I assume that at least one of those comments has explained about the Consumer Rights Act works, how it trumps contracts i.e. Hatton's Ts&Cs and how Lance's contract is with Hattons and not Accurascale.
Accurascale seem to have done the decent thing but given your and Lance's experience with 4 locos it sounds as though there are fundamental design issues that need to be resolved if you are not going to keep having problems. You have done a fabulous job for Accurascale in diagnosing the issue and they now need to remedy the design. Great video as always and interesting to see how others deal with consumer issues plus model rail take.
Many thanks for an interest in comment. Yes this situation is a real shocker. Regards Charlie
Having read a few of the comments I am now wondering if I should cancel my order with Accurascale for a loco I have pre ordered, this is VERY worrying because I have always looked for quality and reliability, it seems we have a BIG reliability problem. Oh dear just when I was starting to believe that we have a manufacturer that is second to none. I am lost for words. Thank you Charlie for bringing these issues to our attention.
You’re most welcome Sam, perhaps it’s buyer beware. Regards, Charlie
Fascinating stuff Charlie. I think the phrase your friend Lance is looking for is "these goods are not of merchantable quality". If the sound chip doesn't work then Hatton's must fix it. I would imagine that it is a component that can be replaced. If there is a manufacturing/design flaw then the manufacturer is responsible for fixing it but the retailer should facilitate that repair.
I'm pleased to report Lee, that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Regards Charlie
Slight tangent but when you return an item to Hattons as I have had to several times, they would only reimburse for cheapest uninsured and unsigned for post - leaving me very nervous as to what would happen if it went missing? Also post office often want to know a value of what is being sent......
It seems to me that Hattons is perhaps a retailer to avoid. I’m a big fan of buying from and supporting our smaller/local retailers who give a much better service in all respects.
leestodart7014. No the retailer must fix nothing, it is not his Product , he bought it from the Manufacturer as you do when buying direct from the manufacturer , so no the only thing the retailer has to do is facilitate the repair. If it can't be done in subsequent time you as customer can claim a refund from the retailer you purchased from, the retailer has to claim a refund from the Manufacturer, and the Product has to be in the Original state as you purchased it. The Warranty doesn't run out, if you are in the process in time claiming repairs for a faulty product. In our country we also have policies that in the first half year of the purchase you can give the product back without any reason after the half year ,you as customer must proof that the product was faulty when you purchased it.BTW this not a warranty . Also you have a return right to give back the purchased Product for whatever reason, (in fact you don't need a reason)for 14 Days but this applies only for online purchases, the reason for that is you can't see the product beforehand . So before making claims of any sort read the small letters on that matter. And read the return and warranty policies and not buy something and than making false claims like the dude in the Video.BTW Any altering of the Product you loose all the rights like warranty , return policies or whatsoever
@@powertothebauer296 In the UK, Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that "...There is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality..." (satisfactory quality was previously referred to as merchantable quality).
The fault does not have to be apparent at the time of the sale as there is a requirement that the goods be durable. The fact that the sound chip does not function satisfactorily is not in dispute. As such this simply makes the quality of the goods unsatisfactory.
In the situation described in this video the contract exists between Lance and Hattons. Given that the goods are not of satisfactory quality, Lance is entitled to reject them and he would expect Hattons to repair or refund in full. The fact that he has weathered the loco does not diminish his rights under the “satisfactory quality” requirement. If he was relying on returning under the Distance Selling Regulations then there would probably be an expectation that the goods are returned in their original condition but that is not the situation here.
I am pleased to see that, as Charlie reports, Accurascale have stepped in.
Re the Hattons problem. I personally think that their attitude to the ;problem tirh Lances loco is disgusting. A bit of weathering on the exterior will nor affect anything on the interior in any way shape or form,
Thanks mate, however, Accurascale are going to exchange the decoder. Regards, Charlie
Not very customer friendly treatment by Hattons. It's always worth bearing in mind that the T&Cs of the retailer are not the end of the matter (although they sometimes like to fob you off with them) as they can't over-ride the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act(CRA).
The CRA dictates that where a fault emerges within the first 6 months after purchase the fault is deemed to have been present at the point of purchase, unless of course it was obviously caused by misuse on the part of the owner. Within the first 30 days the customer is entitled to a full refund; between 30 days and 6 months the customer is entitled to either a repair or replacement. In neither case should the weathering be of any relevance as it wouldn't amount to using the model in an improper way - it's what modellers do and isn't in any way relevant to the fault. So assuming Lance hasn't had the model for over 6 months he is still entitled to repair or replacement even if that isn't the full refund he would like.
Thanks Paul , for an insight into the legal side. You’ll be pleased to know that Accurascale will replace lances Decoder free of charge. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Well done Accurascale; obviously more mindful of their public reputation than Hatton's.
To be honest, as the product was modified, even though that would clearly not have caused the issue it will still have voided the warranty, so I don't think Hattons are in the wrong here. It's a case of needing to draw the line somewhere. Hattons would likely not have been able to return the model to Accurascale for a refund of their trade price as it was modified, hence why they didn't want to. Accurascale products look amazing, but seem to have an amateurish execution which hopefully they'll be able to stamp out, surprised they didn't try to blame the controller!
Tesla would definitely refuse warranty on a resprayed car, again even if it clearly has nothing to do with the issue, modifying is, or should, always be done on the understanding it voids warranty.
An interesting comment mate, thank you. However, I believe it even fitting the snowploughs now avoid the warranty! Regards, Charlie
My Accurascale Class 37 is identical to yours and it’s been the worst locomotive I’ve ever had. It cannot stay on the rails where every other loco I have from all the major manufacturers have no problem whatsoever. I’ve tried numerous fixes found on the web including removing the kinematic coupling and canting the rails with no success. The lights failed as well. Living in Australia, returning these items is really too expensive. 😢 My advice is…buyer beware! I’ve also decided to cancel my class 31 and pannier tank from Accurascale. The Siphon Gs I have are lovely, so no issues with rolling stock, but no more of their locos. Far too risky. Thank you for your channel. Appreciate the time you put into sharing your experiences of this fantastic hobby.
An interesting comment James. I would take advantage of their lifetime warranty. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie its a cop cop out by Hattons shame on them. There is such a thing as fit for purpose which i used against a company after being told by a citizens advise person and got me money back the problem is not with the paint work or fitting driver in the cab its with the chip now if he your friend was complaining about the paint after weathering it and affecting the paint job on the loco Hattons would be right to refuse, but its not its a component and a expensive one at that. tell your friend not to give up on this he has rights and they are there to be used we are looking at a product that's getting on for £200. it has to be fit for purpose, this item isn't out of the pound shop. tell your friend to fight it and don't take it at face value this goes on far too much and some people give up after the first round.
Thanks, Tony, at least Accurascale are replacing the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie. Thank you for a fascinating and insightful video. I have one of these 37s but have not yet had time to run it in, so I will get to it next week. I will be putting in a helix so I will definitely watch out for the vertical curve challenge.
As for Hattons … a question I ask is whether or not it is unreasonable or unexpected for a modeller to weather or fit figures. I would argue absolutely not. The restrictions on returning as supplied essentially tells the modeller that they can make no cosmetic changes until the warranty has expired. These are cosmetic changes - they should have no bearing on warranty coverage of electronics or mechanical failure within the warranty period.
The price of engines (and rolling stock) have become ridiculous. The least we should expect is reasonable service.
You’ll be pleased to know Ed, that Accurascale will replace Lance’s decoder free of charge. Regards, Charlie.
Good video. I've not had any issues as of yet with my Accurascale DCC sound 37 but I have a DCC sound fitted manor and the sound in that is poor so I feel like I've wasted money buying the sound version
I wonder if they have turned down CV 63 to 150? Regards, Charlie
It would be interesting if someone with a law background could check if Hattons T&Cs are reasonable. Otherwise, nobody would be able to weather or add cosmetic details to their model until the warrenty period has ended.
Sounds to me that modellers, even just by renumbering their models, should avoid Hattons so as to avoid their "nothing we can do" approach.
I think it would be the same with all retailers to be honest , any alterations etc have the model not as supplied haven't they
You make excellent points gentleman. However, weathering the loco would negate a refund, but not a repair. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie. Happy new year to you. I think your criticism of Hattons is a little unfair as they are simply the retailer and the problem was an Accurascale one. If I've understood correctly your friend had already had a loco replaced without quibble by Hattons because it was faulty and he was then asking to return the model for a full refund after having weathered it so it had effectively had a modification he decided to carry out. Having worked for many years in the motor trade and referring to your Tesla analogy if you bought a brand new car and had a custom paint job and carried out modifications they would certainly not take the car back for a full refund, they would however repair or replace any faulty parts that had not been adversely affected by any of the modifications.
My point being that if your friend had weathered the model with something that had attacked the original finish that's down to him and not Hattons or Accurascale but so they wouldn't be obliged to help, however if he'd done something to the paint and the model subsequently developed a mechanical or electrical fault that has nothing to do with the weathering then of course that should be rectified by Accurascale.
I don't know how warranty repair work as regards model trains but in the motor trade the repairs are carried out by the the dealer and charged back to the manufacturer but I'm guessing that a retailer for Accurascale would simply return the the model to them on behalf of the customer for repair or replacement.
I'm not Hattons biggest fan but I think it unreasonable to ask them to accept a model back for a full refund after is been weathered however good that weathering job might be, it's I bit like going back to Marks & Spencer to return a shirt that's in perfect condition but you've had your initials monogrammed onto it.
I see Accurascale have subsequently rectified the fault which is right and proper.
As usual an informative video which has decided me to buy a Bachmann 37.
I am genuinely astonished by the number of people on the comments who are convinced that it ought to be fine that they weather a loco and still have rights to return it for a refund. Ludicrous. I'd love to see them run a retail outlet and tolerate that kind of nonsense themselves. It is of course, quite ridiculous.
I agree a refund was not what was required, but the fault should still have been fixed. Regards, Charlie
Great that things have been sorted, I do think that as you are so well known on UA-cam and with you pointing these issues out on a great video this i think has prompted them into sorting the problem. Im sure if it was just a normal person (Sorry Charlie im not saying your weird haha) Then things might not have been sorted like this. Im not saying all companies are bad but im sure if they can find a way of fobbing you off they will. Sorry this is just my own opinion.
I think you’re right, Ken, and make a valid point. Regards, Charlie
Accurascale locos are great if you want to look at them in a cabinet, but dreadful if you want to run them on a layout. I've numerous issues on my 37 and as for the class 55 Deltic - well the less said about that the better! Mine actually caught fire and even though Accurascale originally diagnosed a PCB issue causing two decoders to burn out (including the factory fitted sound one) - they tried to blame the decoder. Quality control and customer service is appalling.
That’s a shocking revelation Maurice.
I would ask for a refund on all locomotives that are clearly Not Fit for Purpose. Regards, Charlie
I’ve just spent this morning trying to stop my 37043 derailing on my third radius curves 🤷♂️. It’s ran fine apart from a decoder issue until this morning. What was meant to be a morning with my layout has turned into a an infuriating couple of hours examining track and boogies. All my other Bachmann models including two 37’s run fine…….. if this is a sign of things to come I may well cancel my 31 & 66 pre-orders
Thanks for the video Charlie. Interestingly (perhaps?), I experienced a very similar problem to Lance, with the sound stopping, but with my Accurascale Manor. I would be interested to know how other locos from Accurascale have fared, if anyone knows? It seems that this is perhaps a problem with the wiring/decoders that affects multiple models. Shame, since the appearance is superb.
Update: For anyone who reads this comment, Accurascale have sent me a repaired/replacement loco (I can't tell which) and it works beautifully. Fantastic customer service in my view.
Hi Jason, there are many comments on here regarding similar issues with the manors. Regards, Charlie
A model train must be able to run around a track reliably with all advertised features working to spec. Anything else is unacceptable no matter how wonderful it looks as it is not of merchandisable quality.
Valuable video..I have subscribed.
Thanks Lucy, it’s great to have you on board. Regards Charlie
Great balanced video Charlie. Must say I've not been impressed with Hattons recently. If your oversea's like me don't use the EVRi service, terrible.
Thanks Mark, it is a difficult situation. Regards, Charlie
I do think that Hatton’s have a duty to respond. I actually side with them in as much that the product has been modified so a refund is not appropriate - this is pretty common in retail sales of any sort. However, I do think they should be swapping the decoder under the warranty given it’s easy to prove what’s broken - and getting Accurascale to pick up the bill if, as you say, the speakers are the root cause of the problem. I’m hoping this rather rookie error (as someone with more than a basic grasp of electronics I rolled my eyes when you explained) is fixed in the next run as I have two on order.
It’s good to hear that Accurascale have stepped in, but with a known issue Hattons should be doing better, abandoning customers like this isn’t a good look. But then the more I hear about them, the less inclined I am to deal with them.
I couldn’t agree more Phil. Hattons, don’t exactly come top in customer care. Regards, Charlie
I have had three Accurascale Dcc ready class 37's . Two of which had to be returned due the failure of the lights. 37423 was duly replaced and has worked ok since . The other loco that had to be returned for the exactly the same reason was 37608. Infact this loco was replaced twice and the lights still failed so I asked for a refund from the retailer .
The only 37 that has been ok from the start has been 37402.
From my conversations with Accurascale ,it would appear to be an issue with the circuit board component.
I have brought lots of railway stock from Accurascale and have been very happy with their products, but these where the first locos.
I imagine that you have reached a satisfactory conclusion, always a bear? Regards, Charlie
I have, however, I will not be pre ordering any locos from them until I know the issue with the lighting circuit is resolved completely.
A very interesting video, this, and in common with one of the other people that commented here, I too am in Canada and so order new locos with extreme care in case of problems. I, too, have had some issues with our friends at Hattons (6-axle dining coach with only 4 wheel sets fitted, anyone?) so tend to now lean toward the shop over in Sheffield. Given all of the hassle that both of you have had with your Accurascale 37s, I think I’ll be giving them a wide berth; it makes me a bit nervous as I have an 89 on pre-order, which is another Accurascale product. I don’t want to end up with a beautiful, but very expensive, static display piece!
I do understand your reluctance. Regards, Charlie
It's a shame that there are still issues with a model that has had time to be fettled by Accurascale. The speaker wiring is a fairly fundamental mistake. It is clear that their customer services are very good though, and there's much feedback to support that 👍. I'm very surprised that Lance thought he was entitled to a refund for a loco that he'd weathered. Whilst Hattons should be obligated to make a model work that had a fault to an unmodified aspect of it's performance, why should they have to take the model back and issue a new replacement, leaving them with a "weathered" example that is worth less in value?. I'd say that it's fair suggestion that Lance should have done a reasonable period of running in and running before painting it. That would be what I'd do. Modifying or painting a model brings with it a greater degree of ownership. To be honest, I ordered my Accurascale 37 through Hatton's, but subsequent models I will almost certainly order direct from Accurascale as I've found their customer services to be 1st rate, and the models will arrive earlier.
Reading all the previous comments, that’s not always the case. Regards, Charlie
Great video Charlie. I think Hattons should have offered to replace the faulty part as they were unwilling to refund because your mate did what everyone does to give more realism to their model, having this attitude with customers who spend a lot of money with them is a fast way to shoot yourself in the foot & lose said customers & properly lose a few potential new ones also!! Good for Accurascale for coming to the rescue though, even with their problems, that will be a BIG plus to their standing in the model community 👍
@@gppsoftware Yes I agree
Lance was never getting a refund after weathering it. Test a new model properly first. There's a lesson.
Wise words, gentlemen, many thanks for your comments. Regards, Charlie
@@modelrailwaynoob The model was tested and working when Lance received it. The lesson actually is that this is the second time Hattons has “featured” in one of Charlie’s of videos and shown a flimsy understanding of basic consumer rights and protections. Hattons T&Cs do not override statutory consumer protection and it is perfectly reasonable to weather rolling stock. I was sad at Hattons demise and still feel very sorry for the individual staff. However, sometimes businesses reap what they sow. We do not need comparatively large retailers that do not treat their customers well: the minimum legal expectation of Hattons is that it should have offered to repair the model. It is good that Accurascale stepped in, but it does have a brand to protect and build.
@christianwall7181 Lance was never getting a refund from Hatton's or any whether retailer. From memory, that's what he asked for. If he was asking for a repair then he should get one and he did.
Definitely unfair customer treatment as it’s unfit for purpose
I think you’re bang on the money. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, I am glad to hear that the company volunteered to replace Lance, 's decoder free of charge. But for future reference have a look at The Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Thanks Buff, your by no means the 1st to mention about the consumer rights act. Regards, Charlie
CRA will not help, the item was modified outside of the manufacture spec so will not be entitled to a refund however hattons should have advised to send it back so they could get the decoder replaced which is in manufacture spec and had failed@@ChadwickModelRailway
made my mind up though, i'm not going to invest in one, i think i will pass till atleast they fix all issues. I bought the nuclear flask trucks and took 2 month by accurascale without even fixing it so had to ask for a refund, luckily i didn't modify it so shop was happy to refund me
Hatton have just announced they're closing, might explain their lack of wanting returns.
@@ChadwickModelRailway How many small local grocery shops have closed due to Tesco etc ?
How many small iron mongers have closed due to B&Q etc ?
A fair point Shaun, comment removed.
Outrageous behaviour from Hattons, I'm honestly shocked at it. I spent a pretty penny on a model for Christmas (Mind that I don't spend much on modelling as I don't have a great deal of money) The model didn't work out the box and its pickup fell off within 5 minutes. Cost me a lot and its a beauty of a model and it said on Hattons website that it ran well, clearly not. All I'm saying is that Hattons really need to work on these problems.
I couldn’t agree, more BE. Regards, Charlie
Hattons customer support via email is shocking.
I think your friend should contact Accurascale to get the chip replaced. Afterwards he can either keep it or move it on.
You’ll be pleased to know John, that Accurascale replaced the decoder immediately. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie……fascinating and very topical video. I too took delivery of an Accurascale Class 37 in Mid December (bought from my local dealer in Chelmsford). Its a fantastically detailed model with many excellent features, and so far its worked impeccably on my layout with no issues arising with either sound or motion. Fingers crossed that this situation continues. HOWEVER, I have also bought the Accurascale Manor Class, and again while I’m delighted with the model and its details, I too have had an issue with the sound. Out of the box it worked perfectly on my small ‘test’ layout for about an hour then suddenly the sound just stopped. No obvious reason, the motion continued as before, but the sound just died. No end of coaxing could persuade it to ‘sing’ again. I spoke to Accurascale who said they couldn’t help me because I’d not purchased it directly from them (!) and referred me back to Derails (the vendor I purchased it from). Dan from Derails was (as ever) very helpful and asked me to return it to them . He offered me a full refund or to send it back to Accurascale . Given the scarcity of this particular version (Torbay Manor with Late BR emblem) I chose to have it returned to Accurascale for checking. Obviously with the Festive Season intervention, I’m still awaiting its return, but I understand from Derails that its now on its way back to me and that Accurascale have replaced the decoder. I was very interested in your comments about the changes recommended to sound CV setting and indeed the speaker configuration. I wonder whether in my case the decoder amplifier blew up and that without your suggested changes, the thing will occur again. If this is indeed a fundamental fault in the sound set up, it seems to me that Accurascale need to publish some guidance on this to avoid a whole host of similar issues occurring with others. Of course, my experience and yours/Lance’s experience might be coincidental………..but your ‘impedance’ point is very well made. Interestingly, Richard at Roads & Rails has made a similar observation about the speaker set up in both the Manor Class and Class 37. I’ll look out for other responses you get here, and from Accurascale, in particular. Certainly, Accurscale have produced a wonderful looking set of models, but these electronic issues have the potential to undermine their excellent reputation. I do hope they find a way to resolve them appropriately. All the best, and thanks.
Many thanks for your comment Adrian. I shall probably remove my sugar cube speaker and resolve this issue. Regards, Charlie
I’ve already done that with my Class 37 and will do the same with my Manor Class on its return…..
Just going through some of the comments - this is interesting Adrian, I had exactly the same issue with my Manor. I had one replacement sent from Accurascale, but organised through the retailer who supplied the loco, but had to return this as the firebox flicker didn't work. I hope Accurascale manage to fix these issues as the models look fantastic.
@@jasonwebber1741 Hi Jason. Yes Accurascale did indeed replace the decoder and everything now seems to be working as expected. On your point on firebox flicker, that now only seems to work when you turn on the “Coal Shovelling” function (F8 ?). I can’t remember if it was always on with the old decoder, but it might have been. Maybe there’s a CV that needs to be changed there too? I’m very happy with the model, and to be fair, Accurascale actually phoned me to explain what they’d done, and although I could have done without the problem in the first place, I can’t be anything other than impressed with their customer service in resolving my issue. All the best with yours….
This is a really good review to put out as I have found Accurascale a tad odd in their methods of coming to market and adding competition, I'm all for this of course over the long run.
Though they're currently style over substance and this is seen on multiple of occasions and we're all suckers for a shining thing.
Like any new brand they will learn of course, but I'm glad people are putting this out there as Hornby and Bachman take flack even on models that are top notch runners just because a rivet is out of place.....
Thanks again for the video. Very informative.
Thanks Rob, for such a sensible comment. Regards, Charlie
Happy New Year, Charlie. An extremely useful and salutary video. My two Accurascale 37s are both non-sound DC versions. While I’ve not run them in yet, thanks to other issues with my layout at present, I fear some of my track work might suffer from the vertical curve misalignment issue. So, very many thanks for explaining that as something to watch out for. These technical ‘root cause troubleshooting’ videos are extremely useful for all of us, I’m sure.
I’m so pleased you found the video useful. Might I ask, does your 37 come with speakers? Regards, Charlie
Your 37s will be the units to tweak your track. If you tweak your track so that your 37s run flawlessly on your layout then I would say that any other loco should run just fine.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Neither is fitted with a speaker as I ordered the DCC ready versions.
However, one of them (37001) has the same problem of oil spilling onto the underside of the bogies as in the UA-cam video posted by oorail about intermittent power loss problems.
Regards, Will
@@ChadwickModelRailwayHi Charlie - the non-sound (I.e., DCC ready) versions have the sugar cube speaker fitted. I am hopeful that the purchase of an ESU sound chip without fitting the “accurathrash” speaker will not result in a blown chip…
No way thats so annoying on a new model...
Nice vid Charlie...
Jim.
Yes Jim, it is rather shocking. Regards, Charlie
I have almost 70 locos of various makes that found my track quite acceptable but ,after the eagerly awaited arrival of my 2 Accurascale Deltics 2 large corner sections had to be relaid because of their intolerance to minor faults. One of the Deltics also suffers from unexplained reductions in speed occasionally.
I would certainly take up the speed changing issue, with Accuracale. Regards, Charlie
Quick! Get the breakdown recovery crane from Stratford? 😂. I thought it this only happened on my layout? Layout looking great! As always happy new year 🎉 ❤
Thanks Ian, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, you are not the first UA-cam model railway channel to find issues with Accurascale locos. While they look great they don't seem to have reliable performance. At least Accurascale try to help out - well they have to if they are to become an established brand. However, this story adds to my feeling that modern locos are just too complicated for their own good (the Dapol Class 73s are another case in point as are some recent Hornby steam locos). I want reliability above everything else especially if its comes at over £150 a pop! Im increasingly being driven towards buying second hand Lima/Hornby/Bachmann locos and upgrading them rather than investing big money in these new models that just don't work straight out of the box.
An excellent comment, Peter, thank you. Accurascale are replacing the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
given that the operating parameters of volume can be set between x and y and the retailer/manufacturer recommend a fix of limiting the value to something less, this clearly indicates the item is defective as it cannot safely operate to the specification as sold.
You’re r bang on the money, Steven. Regards, Charlie
I have had issues with Hattons’ customer service in the past, despite (formerly) being a fairly regular customer. I also have an Accurascale class 37 001 which hasn’t been tested as yet. I purchased this one without a chip, so will definitely consult Roads and Rails prior to fitting sound! Thank you for the video.
Yes that’s a very good move Andy. Regards, Charlie
Well guys, You don't have to grumble about Hatton's anymore? They too, are fed up with trying to flog poor modern models (no matter how good they may look)? They are ceasing to trade?
What good are very expensive models that are not suitable for the average Hobbyist's layouts (or wallet)? Blame the manufacturers...
"Too fine of a standard, to be able to work as a model".. This is the problem nowadays? I wish that manufacturers would realize that they are building toys, not Mercedes Benz cars? They should always work, (the cars do...) even if the layout track (or road) is 50 years old? But to fall off of the track on such a minor rail level issue... Come on...?
If people stop spending money on all of this "highly accurate stuff" the manufacturers will start to take notice? Reliability counts far more than just "looks" or "sounds" alone?
This appears to be a design issue. It would appear that the overall 2 ohm load on the decoder sound amplifier is excessive and is causing the decoder output stage to fail. Reducing the CV to 150 seems to have worked (so far) on your class 37 and did work for a little while on Lances loco. However it eventually failed on Lances loco and may yet fail on yours. Unfortunately the replacement decoder (that accurascale have so kindly agreed to supply?) seems equally likely to fail if the root cause is indeed a design fault that has not been fixed.
I think the only fix, is to remove the sugar cube speaker. Regards, Charlie
Happy New Year Charlie. Interesting that you didn't see the helix issue with any of your steam locomotives, some of them must have a longer fixed wheelbase than the Class 37. Are the Accurascale wheel flanges finer than those on other locos?
Yes Mark, it must be the flanges, however, I cannot see the difference. Regards, Charlie
With respect, with the gaps between rails on the average home 00 layout, if you scaled them up you'd have a 3" gap between rails on the real thing. Stick that on a canted curve with a gradient (or vertical curve if you like) and you'd be sure to get a derailment all the same.
Those flanges do seem very fine for basic 00. In P4 and similar you expect fine flanges as those discipline replicate real World physics as much as possible and the flange is mostly irrelevant, but not so in 00.
I take your point Derek, although expansion gaps are a necessity.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, interesting video. I have also had problems with the vertical curves but not with the 2 Accurascale 37s that I have. I experienced this problem with an older Bachman Class 47 and have discontinued using it because I can't make it stop derailing. As you say, the middle axle acts like a pivot to lift either of the other two sets of wheels off the track. The vertical curve is also a problem if you use Kadee couplings because they decouple easily in those circumstances.
As regards Hattons response, I would think that they are not doing themselves any favours by rejecting this on a technicality. They should at the very least replace the faulty component within the locomotive rather than saying "tough". I imagine Accurascale will sort this out for Lance if Hattons don't. I'm sure you will keep us updated.
Many thanks for sharing your situation Charles. These vertical curves, are clearly an issue, although probably only on larger layouts. Fingers crossed for Lance’s situation. Regards, Charlie
I also had this issue with my Bachmann Class 47. On detailed inspection I noticed that the centre axle was actually sitting lower than the two outer ones thus making the "pivot" problem worse. With a bit of careful "easing" of the centre axle bogie bearings I managed to cure the problem.
Hi , with reference to the derailing issue,i have a out door `o`` gauge railway aswell as `oo` indoors and i was running a Dapol Auto coach with a 060 tank loco and on one curve the leading bogie would derail . On very close inspection i found a very small dip in the outside rail ,only a very small amount ,,,i expermented with some 1/2 mm thick plasticard shims under the outside edge of the sleeper .. problem solved ..i hope this helps
@@tidfordjunction Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it and see if it helps. Many thanks
@@1tonyboat Thanks for this. I will take a closer look and see if it is the case. Many thanks
It’s seems that the issue for lance is getting a refund. Hattons are still obligated to affect a repair to his existing model irrespective of any modifications he has made. Or have I got this wrong. Your thoughts.
Yes, they should’ve offered the repair. At least Accurascale are replacing the decoder. Regards, Charlie
Good video Charlie & Happy new year. I guess we are getting back to the 4 axle drive vs 6 axle drive argument. Going further back when Mainline released its 3 axle drive class 56 back in 1984 caused a fair few problems. Great haulage capacity / looked the part etc but when allied up with the finescale wheels they did have their moments. Model railways are all about compromise & somehow over the past few years the desire to make things millimetre perfect - cram on as much stuff / detail all at the expense of the basics such as road holding / couplings & good strong motors. . Its a endemic problem across the board with 00 , over engineered / over complicated stuff , the desire to dazzle soon loses its sheen when the derailments start & the reliance upon circuit boards & weedy wiring starts to fail.
The original Bachmann 37/4's i had where 4 axle drive & they where good, same with the Heljan 47. Then the Bachmann 66 arrived , running light engine it was fine , soon as a load was coupled to it the centre axle on each bogie just acted as a pivot that raised the leading wheel on each bogie that on perfect flat track was okay, anything slightly unlevel, off it came, same with the 70. Spent what seemed like a lifetime rebuilding the layout to get the trackwork sorted for these 2 locos to run round properly.
I was looking at buying a new 37 this xmas, but ive not been convinced by the Accurascale locomotives, got the mk5's & theyve been ok, few issues with the wheels on peco points but nothing altering the points hasnt cured. I normally only buy secondhand Lima gear of late, but i thought id treat myself to a shiny new addition , went for the Bachmann class 70 in colas instead. I think Accurascale have jumped in both feet first when a more subtle approach to locomotives would have been better to build up the knowledge / build ethos. I gather the Cavalex 56 & 60 are 4 axle drive locomotives which is a interesting departure .
As for Hattons , its not the company of old, owned by a hedge fund thats all about the money. not bought anything off them this year , all gone Rails way instead. Theyve always been sticklers for the line that goods have to be returned as in sold state, moment you add anything etc its classed as used , pretty pedantic stuff when dealing with the decoders etc but thats how they are.
Many thanks for such an interesting comment. The breakthrough in detailing, it’s not necessarily an advantage. Regards, Charlie
Most interesting video Charlie. I had similar decoder issues with my Accurascale 37 from Rails of Sheffield - mostly stoppy startyitis.
I sent it back, but ROS couldn't find a fault so they returned it. It then ran it for a while, but the loco started playing up again. So back it went, but since I had lightly weathered the loco and added a MODELU crew, ROS wouldn't provide the refund that I asked for. They did, however, offer to buy it back as a used model and I only ended up about £40 out of pocket. I then raised the matter of dodgy chips with Accurascale direct and used the magic phrase "in future I"ll stick with Bachmann', which elicited a generous offer on one of their remaining Loch Long 37s. Thus far it has run perfectly. I think the major retailers need to rethink their policies on refunds/repairs on weathered models when there are clearly fundamental faults with the products.
Many thanks Jon for your excellent comment. A pleasing outcome. Regards, Charlie
Sometimes technology is not as good as it is made out to be, which covers not only model railways but many other aspects. I have a 10 year old VW with complicated electrics and a 57 year old Land Rover with 5 fuses, guess which one gives me the least trouble, think I will stick to the DC Charlie.
An excellent comparison, L7614. Regards, Charlie
My comment is about the details. Hatton's did not say that they would not continue to attempt to fix the locomotive, only that they would not refund it (which is what he requested). Continue the conversation and see what they can do.
That’s no longer the case, as Hattons are no longer trading. Regards, Charlie
Hello Charlie
I have just watched this video of yours, although I do regularly stop by your channel from time to time.
I have two Accurascale class 37’s in BR Green, and both are factory fitted sound versions.
Both of my Accurascale 37’s have this same ‘sound cutting out’ fault, plus the second of these 37’s purchased directly from Accurascale was returned by me, faulty due to the’stay alive’ feature not working.
Having bought a class 37 directly from Accurascale I was subsequently invited by them to submit a written review, I did so explaining the faults and issues I had with my class 37, Accurascale took my review down (probably because I only rated this model with one star and complained about the faults too)
It’s my opinion that Accurascale did not like what I had to say in my review even though I believe I was being honest.
Moving on, I’m glad that your friend Lance finally had his class 37 rectified, that’s good news.
If in the future I have any further issues with the decoders within my class 37’s I won’t hesitate in purchasing a replacement from Accurascale then sending the faulty decoder back to them for a replacement.
I know this might seem a little dishonest, but there again, Accurascale only have themselves to blame!!
An excellent comment, Tony, and one of which I have in high regard. The point about the disappearing recommendation is disturbing. Regards, Charlie
Great video. The defective chip replacement (not the whole engine) is of course the right thing for Accurascale to do. The incorrect speaker sizing/wiring is a basic error albeit with significant repercussions, but a relatively easy fix for Accurascale if they are listening to you/others. The likely bigger issue is the defective Accurascale bogie design which you have highlighted and exists on many of their models. It needs reengineering. Easy for them to blame poor track work and indeed the issues with helix kits that break each circle into 8 sections creates significant challenges to avoid your vertical curve. I’ve never, however, had a problem with Bachman or Hornby. Great piece of factual and honest analysis. Reading all these rave you tube reviews with no mention of derailments, I was beginning to think I was just a poorly skilled amateur modeller !!
I must confess, I do find it astounding that people who do these reviews can’t seem to find these problems! Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I do wonder if some of these reviews are made by people getting a freebie?
Hi Charlie, every second video is about the Accurascale 37 having the same trouble with the Class 37, sound cutting out, motor dead, not going around 24rad bends. QA / QC MUST be up the shit with this company of Accurascale. With all coming out of the UK these guys were great with HO models. Sorry to hear that Huttons is closing down after 40-plus years. This will leave a big hole in our Hobby. All the best Mike HO from Australia.
Yes, Mike, our hobby does seem to be in dire straits. Regards, Charlie
If Accurascale insist driving two speakers in parallel they should have installed a frequency crossover circuit to bring the impedance back into the range specified by ESU. ESU are not perfect, their decoders are known to have reliability issues, there are many H0 modellers across Europe willing to bear testament with their own stories. Accurascale look like they need a sound engineer with frequency crossover knowledge working for them, which from the issue you raised they appear not to have.
I imagine it was just a simple oversight by them. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, thanks for that very interesting video regarding the Accurascale Class 37 problem. Whilst surfing through UA-cam I came across a couple of videos from "oorail British Model Railways" whuich I thought may be of interest. ua-cam.com/video/lzH4ADp8kHY/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/6PYm8MsKUZo/v-deo.html. Regards, Barry.
Rest assured Barry, I will check them out. Regards Charlie
Gosh! That's exactly what happened to my Deltic!
They must be cousins.
Regards, Charlie
Interesting News: HATTON'S is CLOSING DOWN. That a bit of a shock and may explain their reluctance to accept problem engines back.
At least they are closing with some dignity. Rather than just slamming the doors. Because Charlie
Charlie, you are far more tolerant and easy going, than I am. Decoder problems have driven me crazy for years. Occasionally , they result in the loco being thrown across the room, which surprisingly, doesn't do anybody any good. My model trains were supposed to be a relaxing hobby in my retirement. DCC will probably be the death of me someday. I am starting to long for the more simpler days of good old regular DC, but once you've tasted the advantages of DCC, it is hard to go back. Now, I am going to take a couple of long relaxing deep breaths, and revisit my Southern Pacific 4-8-8-4 cab forward, and figure out why it's speed is so d#@m slow, and why it hesitates so bad. I think the problem is in the tender were the electrical pickups are, and I think it just needs more weight. I am waiting for the day when they perfect on-board rechargeable batteries for N-scale, so pickup problems, track cleaning, etc., will magically disappear. Until then, I may take up gardening........ Thanks for the humor and pleasant videos.
I do feel your pain. It’s supposed to be a therapeutic hobby! Regards, Charlie
It’s so disappointing and frustrating that models where we are paying big dollars for are not working correctly. What a farce whether is hornby, Bachmann or accurascale.
I couldn’t agree more Richard.
Regards Charlie.
Happy New Year, Charlie.
You are spot on with regards to amplifier and speaker impedance. Running into two ohms will cause the amplifier to overheat and eventually fail, which is probably what has happened to Lance's 37 and others in this comments section. Accurascale may not be aware of their fundamental mistake, or they have just hoped that they will get away with it. Reducing the volume will only delay the inevitable, and doesn't change the issue. Rewiring the speakers in series would prevent the problem, but the overall volume would be less. I suspect that more and more of the decoders in these 37's and any other locos wired the same will be failing sooner or later. ESU, quite rightly, would point out that the specified impedance has not been correctly matched to the speakers, which would void any warranty. Accurascale should change the wiring a.s.a.p or risk bad publicity from more and more returns and complaints. Shame.
All sounds good, but the whole PCB and speaker setup was designed by ESU.
Many thanks for the excellent comment. In time, I will simply remove the sugar cube speaker and bring the volume back up. Regards, Charlie
How interesting. I've only just watch a video from @Oorail on issues pertaining to his Class 37, ua-cam.com/video/lzH4ADp8kHY/v-deo.htmlsi=R6nvg29ueTJaNujX and guess what...?
What I'm really struggling with, Charlie, is the small fortune that we're paying for these models (I have nothing but trouble with Revolution in N gauge, who co-develop with Accurascale) and seemingly we ought to be appreciative of the emphasis on fine detail and tolerate poor running quality - not 'buying' this, running quality is priority number 1 (more so when looking at N gauge where the ultra fine detail is lost when viewing from afar). Furthermore, the non customer-centric attitude of Hatton's appals me but, as we observed from the VAT nonsense, it's not entirely surprising.
This is not good for our hobby, as customers we ought not to be compensating (at considerable cost) for sub-optimal design and development of products and having to work around manufacturing quality failings.
Many thanks for an excellent comment Highlander. Rest assured I will check out the video. Regards, Charlie
All my mainline curves are super elevated as per the real thing. My Class 37 (so far) has not given any trouble running. I don’t see why the model manufacturers don’t understand that the springs they are so happy to boast about modelling too such a high degree of detail are there for a purpose in the real thing! Don’t they realise each axle has to move vertically and independently? Or do they think the real loco had them just for show!???
Do you think we can ‘mod’ the chassis in any way to introduce a bit of float in the middle axle? I had a Hornby model that simply wouldn’t stay on the track (class 37 oddly enough) so I just took the centre wheels out. You really can’t see that when it is moving but now being only four pointed it rides perfectly over everything and never derails.
An interesting suggestion, Malcolm, and one that I am working on. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, did you ever get a conclusion of your derailment, not on the helix but on the points? I have just received mine and it derails on 2 sets of points and a flat curve. I had a thought this morning and ran it in reverse but in the same direction, and it ran fine?
Hi Stewart, I believe that the tolerances are just too fine on this locomotive.
Do check out your trackwork, but it’s the pivoting on the centre axle that’s causing the problem. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, on our helix which uses an inner curve at 2nd radius we tested 2 Accurascale 37s and found that if you cant the curves, like on the real railway, the issue with the leading wheel derailing was cured. We used Westhill Wagon works shims just to slightly lift the outer rail. Keep up the great work!
An excellent proposal mate. Much appreciated, regards, Charlie
Great idea. I've not yet built my helix, so I'll adopt that cunning plan! Many thanks.
Hi Charlie, Happy New Year.
I had a similar issue regarding the sound file disappearing from my IRM (Accurascale) A-Class too. Sound was there for a few months then it stopped. I contacted IRM about this via email. They responded very promptly and asked me to send them the decoder (Loksound V5) serial number. They then sent me a new file to completely re-blow the decoder, thankfully I have a LokProgrammer too. I found them very easy and fair to deal with, also I did not buy direct and yet they still helped me out.
Thanks Ian, I found that service to be somewhat reassuring. Regards, Charlie
Hattons have thrown in the towel
@@ChadwickModelRailway If a big organisation like Hattons can't make ends meet then what does that say about the state of the hobby?
Hattons didn't make small model railway shops close. Customers choice did that.
@@ChadwickModelRailwayI thought better of you Charlie. A lot of people will lose their jobs at Hattons. And losing all the big retailers won’t help the hobby.
@@ChadwickModelRailwayThat seems like a remarkably thoughtless and unkind comment as numerous people lose their jobs. Hattons didn’t close down smaller model shops, the public choosing where to buy things from closed smaller model shops.
A fair point, comment removed.