Totally agree. When I bought my Incredible Technics System of all separate components. I auditioned the Speakers first, and then the Receiver, and then the Turntable, and the Cassette Deck and CD player was last and so thrilled with my system.
"focus most of my effort on loudspeakers and amp then do the best you can for preamps and DAC, so i know thats kind of short and sweet and above all give a listen to it, take it home see if it works for you and if it does good job all right" - accurate guidance by Paul Sir...
It can be worth reading up on and doing the math in regards to how much power that's needed, the difference between efficient speakers at a short distance vs inefficient speakers over a longer distance (and both with headroom) can be absolutely massive if you're listening with any volume!! But if all you need to 'get it done' is 20W for instance, then quality is more well served than 500W in terms of spending, and the preamp will after all feed the signal that's about to get amplified. Speakers are the most critical component though (unless you count the room as a component as that's the most important part), speakers is not an electronic component but an instrument.
Its a tough question to answer because some components with incredible specs can fail to engage the listener while others with worse specs can sound incredible. Amplifiers for example which have had 'cutting edge' low distortion specs at any given time have seldom gone on to become classics.
True! I mean some of the gear with the best specs you can find might sound analytical, or even bright. - Listen to as much gear you can find, and forget hype. Take your time and find out what sound you are going for. Having found that goal, then you can narrow down and have a look at the specs. Specs is the last thing you look at - Sound is always first.
@@uccelino Specs like THD (distortion) , channel seperation, dynamic range,frequency range , have EXCEEDED the relative 'poor limitations' of human hearing for decades now, so they're pretty irrelevant..No ones ever detected a DAC with distortion for instance. It's never been audible.
@@Pete.across.the.street Because they are measured in 'parts per million'.(eg 0.008%.) I don't personally believe one can hear that.Its absurd.You can't hear parts per thousand let alone million
I've got some magnepan MG IIIa's from the 80s limping that needs a reglue/rewire. I have to crank them hard to hear issues. They still sound wonderful limping. Magnepan is a 20 minute drive for me, I gotta get over there for service, they will STILL service this speaker today..... Support like this is also key, as parts/components are available for even DIY friendly people, can't beat that, and just that Maggie sound!
I agree about speakers being most important. One does want all the above aspects mentioned in the speakers, but I would add bass response is also something to pay attention to. Before looking for speakers one should decide on the sound one is seeking as well. Prefer a tilt towards the high frequencies or low frequencies? Prefer a more neutral or balanced sound? Is mid range most important to you? Do you want tight articulate bass or prefer a more visceral relaxed bass? Yes, one should also pay attention to off-axis response. It is true that there is no absolutely perfect speaker, but the idea is to get speakers as close as possible to what you prefer and no it doesn't have to be PS Audio or any of the hyped ones from reviewers or $60,000 or whatever. It is what you like and find, maybe that is Kef or PS Audio or Emotiva or Paradigm or PSB, Magico, Wilson, Focal, JBL, Pioneer, Elac, etc. It can be ribbon tweeters, electrostat, soft dome tweeters, AMT, Planar, whatever. I disagree that one should only look for ribbon, AMT or Planar tweeters and they are best. You forget that performance of any components in a speaker also relies on design of the voice coil, crossover, cabinet, etc. Just because a speaker has a ribbon tweeter doesn't mean it is going to sound good. I have heard a number or ribbon tweeter speakers as well as AMT and the like that sound awful or shouty and others that sound very nice. I have heard dome tweeter speakers that outperform ribbons and the like as well as having heard dome tweeter speaker that are awful. Also keep in mind the room they will be in, for instance I would not put electrostat speakers in a small room. The retention theory is nonsense. I like the analogy Andrew Jones uses: "What flavor ice cream do you like"? The sad part to this though is that one would be hard-pressed to find a shop these days where one can audition speakers initially. It is a good idea to know your room pretty well first. No, a shop is NOT your room, but one can glean a fair idea of the native sound signature of a speaker and it's abilities in a shop demo such as speed and other things that remain static and then do some calculations of how it may sound in your room or better still if possible, a home demo (not easy to get). Keep in mind as well that setup can result in huge changes as well. Of course, the first thing in power amps is safety so Paul is right, be careful to match the power amp to your speakers. As for sound, speakers respond to power amps. In other words, power amps will change the favor of the sound. SO one should decide first what sound signature they prefer: Do you like something more towards the warm side of neutral or the bright side of neutral for example. If you have found the right speakers you should be able to easily hear the sound signature of the power amp as your speakers should transmit that without too much coloring. As for the rest of the components, one could almost throw a stone and take whatever it hits. Ok, not quite that, but pretty much anything that gives you the functionality and everything you want in said piece. Don't forget system setup! Setup is actually the most important thing after speakers! Do it right the first time and you can avoid upgradeitis!! Yes, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how your system sounds to you and your ears. It doesn't and should not matter how it sounds to Paul McGowan, your neighbor, the audiophile down the road, the audiophile club, anyone on You Tube, co-workers, even your best friend, etc. You are the one who has to live with it and you are the one who wants to enjoy it!
I've been to one CanJam and two AXPONA's, and audio expos are absolutely the best way to zero in on what to buy in this era of few hifi shops. They're also a great way to get an education on the sound signature of different driver types.
B R A V O ! On such wise counsel. I’m saving now for EAR’s 890 power amp for my highs, and midrange. I use Carver’s ZR-1600, and Crown’s XLi-3500 for bass, and sub bass each, respectively. My needs are relatively modest, I go for peak transient composure, and the staying consistency of effortless dynamics. 🌷
For me it has always been the speakers followed by the listening room. A poorly setup room or room with bad acoustics will wreck the sound of a good system.
A couple years ago I was tempted to buy speakers before listening to them at the brick and mortar store. I couldn’t do it. I know most companies offer free returns if not satisfied after you hear them at home, but it’s a pain to return something so large and heavy.
I listened to a handful of well reviewed speakers that did not do it for me. I eventually found a pair that I fell in love with from a brand that I was not familiar with - have not looked elsewhere since
Like your cabinet to your left, very nice, but i would prefer the wood effect turntable , sorry i do not know know the 2 firms you said are the best, me heard Kipsch are very very good and long lasting, ps me in the UK.
I completely agree with this video, and yet, the only speakers to ever deliver the rock'n'roll sound I've been seeking at home for 40 years is a pair of $1200 Coda Audio HOPS8 pro audio point sources plus a sub. But, that perfectly exemplifies the importance of finding the right type of drivers on the mids and highs. I *love* live rock music, but the industry standard 4" dome compression drivers used in pro audio generally don't sound very good. Coda's dual ring diaphragm compression drivers have half the distortion and a remarkably natural sound. As much as I love my custom 7.2 system full of hand-built AMT's, if I could have only one sound system at home, I'd keep the Codas because they deliver the visceral fidelity of live rock music.
Hi Paul … love your posts, but you surprised me on this one. I agree … speakers first. But planers are great for transparency and soundstage, but you usually give up dynamic impact and low bass, things that are important to me. Also, if you are going with Maggies, you’d better have at least 200 wpc on tap, which is a financial trade off to consider.
If you can,find a dealership where you're able to experiment with different options. More difficult than before, but certainly the best way to go if you're unsure of how which direction to take.
Full range electrostats exhibit the low Mass that planar magnetics and ribbons have. Back in the '80's bought a pair of Shackman electrostat ,parts kit for 400 bucks. Down to 400 Hz, operated as dipole crossed over to a Dynaudio, when they would sell to Us peasants, the 30W54, 12 inch woofer, in a 8 cubic foot sealed enclosure, just powered by the Revox B-750, really did it for me.
sound like a good question, but damn hard to answer. we like to pic a few to simplify but that does not tell the whole story.... for speaker i like graphs, specs and numbers i think are to narrow data points. with only two graphs: polar plot and waterfall graph. those are information rich pictures that i think should be on every spec sheet as a minimum.
Surely, it’s a combination of the speakers and electronics? You can’t decide each component in a Hifi system in isolation, it’s how they all work together! There is also the room effect!!
There may be exceptions, but it is most often the case that high quality speakers can bring the most out of a substandard amplifier, however, the best amplifier that money can buy will not sound wonderful on inferior speakers. That said, yes you are right that the interworking of the system as a whole is important, and it is optimal to have everything be of great quality. The point is that if you’re on a budget or just trying to decide what to focus on first, then get the best speakers you can.
Hello Paul, congratulations you effortlessly described all main important aspects of HIFI audio and sum up many of your magnificent videos; just one question: Even though your Aspen line of speakers have ribbon mids and tweets, in my own opinion, they do not sound as "real" as Magnepan's counterparts. Is it because the back of Aspen's ribbons are enclosed in the box and not open air (on the back) as Magnepans do?
Hello, Paul. Dome tweeters CAN sounds ultimately great with its ultra, i mean, ultra thin copper foil [not wire] voice coil patent at 1 and 2 ohms , for example. For greater example 6 inch or 8 inch full range speakers in transmission line boxes, also with ultra thin foil , at low ohm regime can reproduce amazing over 135 db range. that patent exists, and its not a snake oil. the quality of the sound is astonishing. it is 1watt/ 7 meters, not conventional 1 W/ 1Meter., so, ultra precise and fast.
sorts of agree but not totally, speakers are important but speakers can change their characteristics how they're driven by the amplifier so to just say speakers on their own could be misleading, they could be lacking something because the amplifier driving them iis lacking. I would say speakers and integrate all power amplifier have to go together they need to be matched then everything else would be okay.
Paul. What do u think of the classic B&W 800 Matrix as far as what u are talking about in a speaker. . I have them W/ my ARC Ref 750s ARC Ref 6Se ARC Ref CD 9.
Sure speakers are crucial. But a great speaker will sound very different with different electronics. So compatibility is fundamental. Cables play an important role too. And taste maters! Different people will prefer different systems. And when everything is right if your room and setup are not ideal it won’t sound good. When you get into this hobby you have to be prepared to try a lot of things and spend “some” money… Welcome to the club!
Phase response is also very important in speakers and electronics. It has to be as flat as possible. Unfortunately, that's not the case with most modern speakers, amps and other audio components.
Why is it important? Can only be picked up on with specific test signals on headphones. What's wrong with phase response of modern sources, amps, or even speakers? Was it any better in vintage gear?
@@paulb4661 It's important and it can be picked up on music with "naked" ears. Once you heard speakers and electronics with "linear phase" (i.e. as close as it gets to linear) response, you can't "unhear" it. Linear phase response makes music sound much more natural, with a much better sound stage. It was better in some vintage gear, but not all. Today even less manufacturers care about it or even measure it. If you're interested you can read up on DC (direct coupled) amps and linear phase speakers yourself.
Specifications, if honest, are a form of assurance (not insurance). I like having them available to check. They don't guarantee anything, but they do help us compare components.
Specs can help you rule out bad stuff. But not which is the good stuff. Designers can shoot for great specs and it not sound good. The problem with the Audio industry and specs is the ones used were developed when the test and measurement hardware sucked! Test generators just to develop an accurate sine wave were very expensive and had almost as much distortion as a good amp today. Measurements were made in real time with steady state signals with the most basic hardware because that was all that existed. e.g. the most common is THD, Total Harmonic Distortion. Send in a steady state sinewave, which outside of the occasional MOOG type source will never happen in music, and see how much signal exists at the harmonics. Problem is the best numbers are achieved by using massive feedback. Send some of the output of an amp section back to the input to compare and correct for distortions. Great for reproducing a steady state signal where you have time for a signal to settle into place. But screws up musical transients like crazy.
Conclusion; You really cannot use specs, you just gotta make sure your poweramp can power your speakers, and use your ears for everything else. And that's really it. Whenever people start throwing specs and theories to make their point, I end the conversation. It just does not translate to sound.
I do not believe that "sound" is the best measure - because the worst component can be our listening hygiene! We can (must) learn to listen, appreciate the music, the technical playback. Once we have learned to listen, the questions asked become more serious.
The thing is... you -very very very- rarely buy a piece of audio gear, take it home and it's all sweetness. The success or failure of your purchase lies in the room acoustics and the setup of the WHOLE system. Every detail, every part counts. You buy speakers and install them and they seem a bit bright, or even, say, sibilant, is that the speakers doing that? Highly unlikely, it is way more likely an issue with the setup and the room acoustics. Long story short, if you want to upgrade then first get your act together with extensive setup and exploration of -every single bit- of your system, from the power panel for your house to your ears. Until you intimately know every aspect of your system and setup and acoustics you are not auditioning equipment, you are experiencing different gear as influenced by the sub performing parts of your total system. I set out, 8 years ago, to get great sound, the rules for doing so are no new major parts, no new amps, no new preamps, no new speakers. I have taken awful sound and turned it into great sound and all of the primary stuff is still the same. New speakers would have delivered the same awful sound as the ones I have did, because it wasn't the speakers, it was acoustics and a few other issues letting things down. I have a friend with Magicos driven by expensive and sweet gear, the sound in his room is mediocre, entirely because of the room acoustics. I could fix it but he hasn't taken me up on any of my offers, it makes me sad to see him living like that...
Why can't you mfg. your loudspeakers here, and not outsourced to China, and you sell at premium prices. Legacy Audio makes them here, and priced less..and they are a better speaker. Includes DSP, and built in amplification. Your speakers are over priced, and basically lack features that are common, it's 2024
Loudspeakers are not the most important item. They are the final link in the chain and merely pass on what they are fed.. If the preceding links in that chain are not up to snuff, your system as a whole will not perform well. Even modest speakers will give an excellent account of themselves if fed a high quality signal. In fact, highly accurate, resolving speakers fed by an average or less good signal will sound worse than more modest speakers fed by a quality signal.
Loudspeakers are the most important because that is the component that has the biggest variations and are the hardest to get right. They also aren't the final link as the last step is the room, and the speaker is the component that interacts with the room (the other most important component) which makes it even more important. You also don't buy one good thing and do the rest mediocre, you try to buy all good parts but you start with the speaker and then let that decide which electronics you should pair with them, as building a system is about synergy, not just getting arbitrary pieces that are good on their own. That being said Paul disagrees that high level electronics with low level speakers sounds better than vice versa. The recent video about the Carver challenge probably shows that it's easier to tune a cheap amp to sound like high level ones than it is to create a speaker that sounds like a high level speaker.
It's never a "either this or either that" scenario. But speakers is not apart of the chain in that sense, electronic is just meant to be clean by design, speakers are never clean by their nature, they are an instrument that you're listening to. Like any other instrument they have harmonics and a distortion level far greater than any electronics. Then there's the room itself and positioning, at least as critical part of the chain as the speakers.
It appears commenters are falling into the trap of believing that I am advocating using cheap/poor quality speakers with high quality electronics. I am not. Obviously, there has to be a degree of balance. However, there is a common misconception that because speakers "make the sound", you should choose them first and spend the highest proportion of your budget on them. My point is that they merely pass on what they are fed. There are plenty of excellent modestly priced speakers available nowadays which offer high performance. A speaker is NOT an "instrument" (I am a musician and know what an instrument is). They do not create any sound. A speaker is a transducer. It converts electrical to acoustic energy. It is utterly dependant on the quality of the electrical signal it receives. GIGO.
@@laurieharper1526 Obviously it's not a instrument in the usual sense, a musician should know that (it's not about price either, though it obviously can and most likely will have an impact at some point). But speakers do have an abundance of properties that affect the reproduction, at a magnitude far greater than the electronics that's feeding it can/should have. Electronics is relatively cheap or at least fairly straightforward to engineer up to the point of diminishing returns, some of the best amplifier modules in the world is a few hundred dollars (before they are put in a box with a known brand name on it, then the numbers adds up rather quickly behind). Speakers is a labor of love to create, working through all the sonic properties of each driver (on/off axis response, odd/even harmonics, intermodular distortion, response/decay and so on), then picking the next so it's coherent, trying a variety of box designs (shape, size, driver placement etc as they all impact respons as well as tonality), going back and forth with crossover designs as well as components with the exact same specs but different sound characteristics and with measurements as well as long periods of listening on each configuration. So even if you exclude measurements of frequency response from the equation (like it was a perfect mechanical device that's just transforming electricity to mechanical movement), the tonality can be completely different and at magnitude (dB) far greater than the electronic devices. Or as they say, "speakers is a box full of compromises", it's impossible to build a speaker that's perfect in reproducing sound. Figuratively electronics is like a pick, it will most definitely impact things, but the speakers are the difference between a Stratocaster with single coil and a Les Paul with humbuckers.
@@laurieharper1526 Of course speakers have their sound. Feed two entirely different speakers with the same electronics and it will sound different. There's a bigger sound variation between speakers than amps.
Totally agree. When I bought my Incredible Technics System of all separate components. I auditioned the Speakers first, and then the Receiver, and then the Turntable, and the Cassette Deck and CD player was last and so thrilled with my system.
Simple and concise. The best explanation ever. Thanks
"focus most of my effort on loudspeakers and amp then do the best you can for preamps and DAC, so i know thats kind of short and sweet and above all give a listen to it, take it home see if it works for you and if it does good job all right" - accurate guidance by Paul Sir...
It can be worth reading up on and doing the math in regards to how much power that's needed, the difference between efficient speakers at a short distance vs inefficient speakers over a longer distance (and both with headroom) can be absolutely massive if you're listening with any volume!!
But if all you need to 'get it done' is 20W for instance, then quality is more well served than 500W in terms of spending, and the preamp will after all feed the signal that's about to get amplified.
Speakers are the most critical component though (unless you count the room as a component as that's the most important part), speakers is not an electronic component but an instrument.
Its a tough question to answer because some components with incredible specs can fail to engage the listener while others with worse specs can sound incredible.
Amplifiers for example which have had 'cutting edge' low distortion specs at any given time have seldom gone on to become classics.
True! I mean some of the gear with the best specs you can find might sound analytical, or even bright. - Listen to as much gear you can find, and forget hype. Take your time and find out what sound you are going for. Having found that goal, then you can narrow down and have a look at the specs. Specs is the last thing you look at - Sound is always first.
@@uccelino Specs like THD (distortion) , channel seperation, dynamic range,frequency range , have EXCEEDED the relative 'poor limitations' of human hearing for decades now, so they're pretty irrelevant..No ones ever detected a DAC with distortion for instance. It's never been audible.
@@bryanwilliams3665 how could you possibly know if no one has ever detected distortion from a dac?
@@Pete.across.the.street Because they are measured in 'parts per million'.(eg 0.008%.) I don't personally believe one can hear that.Its absurd.You can't hear parts per thousand let alone million
I've got some magnepan MG IIIa's from the 80s limping that needs a reglue/rewire. I have to crank them hard to hear issues. They still sound wonderful limping. Magnepan is a 20 minute drive for me, I gotta get over there for service, they will STILL service this speaker today..... Support like this is also key, as parts/components are available for even DIY friendly people, can't beat that, and just that Maggie sound!
I agree about speakers being most important. One does want all the above aspects mentioned in the speakers, but I would add bass response is also something to pay attention to. Before looking for speakers one should decide on the sound one is seeking as well. Prefer a tilt towards the high frequencies or low frequencies? Prefer a more neutral or balanced sound? Is mid range most important to you? Do you want tight articulate bass or prefer a more visceral relaxed bass? Yes, one should also pay attention to off-axis response.
It is true that there is no absolutely perfect speaker, but the idea is to get speakers as close as possible to what you prefer and no it doesn't have to be PS Audio or any of the hyped ones from reviewers or $60,000 or whatever. It is what you like and find, maybe that is Kef or PS Audio or Emotiva or Paradigm or PSB, Magico, Wilson, Focal, JBL, Pioneer, Elac, etc. It can be ribbon tweeters, electrostat, soft dome tweeters, AMT, Planar, whatever. I disagree that one should only look for ribbon, AMT or Planar tweeters and they are best. You forget that performance of any components in a speaker also relies on design of the voice coil, crossover, cabinet, etc. Just because a speaker has a ribbon tweeter doesn't mean it is going to sound good. I have heard a number or ribbon tweeter speakers as well as AMT and the like that sound awful or shouty and others that sound very nice. I have heard dome tweeter speakers that outperform ribbons and the like as well as having heard dome tweeter speaker that are awful. Also keep in mind the room they will be in, for instance I would not put electrostat speakers in a small room.
The retention theory is nonsense.
I like the analogy Andrew Jones uses: "What flavor ice cream do you like"?
The sad part to this though is that one would be hard-pressed to find a shop these days where one can audition speakers initially. It is a good idea to know your room pretty well first. No, a shop is NOT your room, but one can glean a fair idea of the native sound signature of a speaker and it's abilities in a shop demo such as speed and other things that remain static and then do some calculations of how it may sound in your room or better still if possible, a home demo (not easy to get). Keep in mind as well that setup can result in huge changes as well.
Of course, the first thing in power amps is safety so Paul is right, be careful to match the power amp to your speakers. As for sound, speakers respond to power amps. In other words, power amps will change the favor of the sound. SO one should decide first what sound signature they prefer: Do you like something more towards the warm side of neutral or the bright side of neutral for example. If you have found the right speakers you should be able to easily hear the sound signature of the power amp as your speakers should transmit that without too much coloring.
As for the rest of the components, one could almost throw a stone and take whatever it hits. Ok, not quite that, but pretty much anything that gives you the functionality and everything you want in said piece.
Don't forget system setup! Setup is actually the most important thing after speakers!
Do it right the first time and you can avoid upgradeitis!!
Yes, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how your system sounds to you and your ears. It doesn't and should not matter how it sounds to Paul McGowan, your neighbor, the audiophile down the road, the audiophile club, anyone on You Tube, co-workers, even your best friend, etc. You are the one who has to live with it and you are the one who wants to enjoy it!
I've been to one CanJam and two AXPONA's, and audio expos are absolutely the best way to zero in on what to buy in this era of few hifi shops. They're also a great way to get an education on the sound signature of different driver types.
B R A V O ! On such wise counsel. I’m saving now for EAR’s 890 power amp for my highs, and midrange. I use Carver’s ZR-1600, and Crown’s XLi-3500 for bass, and sub bass each, respectively. My needs are relatively modest, I go for peak transient composure, and the staying consistency of effortless dynamics. 🌷
For me it has always been the speakers followed by the listening room. A poorly setup room or room with bad acoustics will wreck the sound of a good system.
Same with me. BTW just finished my 2nd pair of JAT501’s!
A couple years ago I was tempted to buy speakers before listening to them at the brick and mortar store. I couldn’t do it. I know most companies offer free returns if not satisfied after you hear them at home, but it’s a pain to return something so large and heavy.
I listened to a handful of well reviewed speakers that did not do it for me. I eventually found a pair that I fell in love with from a brand that I was not familiar with - have not looked elsewhere since
Like your cabinet to your left, very nice, but i would prefer the wood effect turntable , sorry i do not know know the 2 firms you said are the best, me heard Kipsch are very very good and long lasting, ps me in the UK.
Good advice, Paul!
I completely agree with this video, and yet, the only speakers to ever deliver the rock'n'roll sound I've been seeking at home for 40 years is a pair of $1200 Coda Audio HOPS8 pro audio point sources plus a sub. But, that perfectly exemplifies the importance of finding the right type of drivers on the mids and highs. I *love* live rock music, but the industry standard 4" dome compression drivers used in pro audio generally don't sound very good. Coda's dual ring diaphragm compression drivers have half the distortion and a remarkably natural sound. As much as I love my custom 7.2 system full of hand-built AMT's, if I could have only one sound system at home, I'd keep the Codas because they deliver the visceral fidelity of live rock music.
Hi Paul … love your posts, but you surprised me on this one. I agree … speakers first. But planers are great for transparency and soundstage, but you usually give up dynamic impact and low bass, things that are important to me. Also, if you are going with Maggies, you’d better have at least 200 wpc on tap, which is a financial trade off to consider.
If you can,find a dealership where you're able to experiment with different options. More difficult than before, but certainly the best way to go if you're unsure of how which direction to take.
That’s a great analogy with the performance car tires
GR-Research gives a good explanation of what makes and breaks good and bad speakers.
Full range electrostats exhibit the low Mass that planar magnetics and ribbons have. Back in the '80's bought a pair of Shackman electrostat ,parts kit for 400 bucks. Down to 400 Hz, operated as dipole crossed over to a Dynaudio, when they would sell to Us peasants, the 30W54, 12 inch woofer, in a 8 cubic foot sealed enclosure, just powered by the Revox B-750, really did it for me.
sound like a good question, but damn hard to answer. we like to pic a few to simplify but that does not tell the whole story....
for speaker i like graphs, specs and numbers i think are to narrow data points.
with only two graphs: polar plot and waterfall graph.
those are information rich pictures that i think should be on every spec sheet as a minimum.
@@sudd3660 Agreed that useful information is scant when it comes to speakers .Sadly there's often a little fudging of the figures too.
Surely, it’s a combination of the speakers and electronics? You can’t decide each component in a Hifi system in isolation, it’s how they all work together! There is also the room effect!!
There may be exceptions, but it is most often the case that high quality speakers can bring the most out of a substandard amplifier, however, the best amplifier that money can buy will not sound wonderful on inferior speakers.
That said, yes you are right that the interworking of the system as a whole is important, and it is optimal to have everything be of great quality. The point is that if you’re on a budget or just trying to decide what to focus on first, then get the best speakers you can.
Signal to noise ratio in any electronic component is very, very important!
Hello Paul, congratulations you effortlessly described all main important aspects of HIFI audio and sum up many of your magnificent videos; just one question: Even though your Aspen line of speakers have ribbon mids and tweets, in my own opinion, they do not sound as "real" as Magnepan's counterparts. Is it because the back of Aspen's ribbons are enclosed in the box and not open air (on the back) as Magnepans do?
Agree!
😇 May God Bless You Always, Paul! 😇
Hello, Paul. Dome tweeters CAN sounds ultimately great with its ultra, i mean, ultra thin copper foil [not wire] voice coil patent at 1 and 2 ohms , for example. For greater example 6 inch or 8 inch full range speakers in transmission line boxes, also with ultra thin foil , at low ohm regime can reproduce amazing over 135 db range. that patent exists, and its not a snake oil. the quality of the sound is astonishing. it is 1watt/ 7 meters, not conventional 1 W/ 1Meter., so, ultra precise and fast.
Ribbon, AMT do not have wide dispersion, still are they preferred? Especially for theatre or where many people enjoy.
Do you have a ‘waterfall’ cart for your speakers?
sorts of agree but not totally, speakers are important but speakers can change their characteristics how they're driven by the amplifier so to just say speakers on their own could be misleading, they could be lacking something because the amplifier driving them iis lacking. I would say speakers and integrate all power amplifier have to go together they need to be matched then everything else would be okay.
Paul. What do u think of the classic B&W 800 Matrix as far as what u are talking about in a speaker. . I have them W/ my ARC Ref 750s
ARC Ref 6Se
ARC Ref CD 9.
The real answer is its harman preference score calculated from its spinorama data(usually made on a klippel measuring rig)
Sure speakers are crucial. But a great speaker will sound very different with different electronics. So compatibility is fundamental. Cables play an important role too. And taste maters! Different people will prefer different systems. And when everything is right if your room and setup are not ideal it won’t sound good. When you get into this hobby you have to be prepared to try a lot of things and spend “some” money… Welcome to the club!
QUALITY HEAD UNIT/SOURCE QUALITY SOURCE/AMPLIFIER QUALITY HIGH SENSITIVITY/ HIGH EFFICIENCY FULL RANGE SPEAKERS = QUALITY AUDIOPHILE GRADE SOUND/MUSIC
Paul is the audio guru
Finding your sound young ear may like it a little brighter and lively older ears no so much. Need to listen in your room for hours to decide
The loudspeaker/tire comparison is spot on.
_(Statement from an amateur music producer and former racing driver)_ 😉
Phase response is also very important in speakers and electronics. It has to be as flat as possible. Unfortunately, that's not the case with most modern speakers, amps and other audio components.
Why is it important? Can only be picked up on with specific test signals on headphones. What's wrong with phase response of modern sources, amps, or even speakers? Was it any better in vintage gear?
@@paulb4661 It's important and it can be picked up on music with "naked" ears. Once you heard speakers and electronics with "linear phase" (i.e. as close as it gets to linear) response, you can't "unhear" it. Linear phase response makes music sound much more natural, with a much better sound stage. It was better in some vintage gear, but not all. Today even less manufacturers care about it or even measure it. If you're interested you can read up on DC (direct coupled) amps and linear phase speakers yourself.
Best part is PS-Audio them selves doesn't publish the mentioned specs in their website .. for their speakers /amps .. so there you go .. !
I'm guessing we don't want speaker retention?
Specifications, if honest, are a form of assurance (not insurance).
I like having them available to check.
They don't guarantee anything, but they do help us compare components.
Yes. Something he really didn't answer. Once again, What specs are important?
Maggies -or even some wide conventional speakers- off axis response... Some "dB??" strange custom units for sensitivity....
I had got a brand new Onkyo receiver I'm having issues with my subwoofer I changed crossover my bass started to hit but why next day no subwoofer
Specs can help you rule out bad stuff. But not which is the good stuff. Designers can shoot for great specs and it not sound good. The problem with the Audio industry and specs is the ones used were developed when the test and measurement hardware sucked! Test generators just to develop an accurate sine wave were very expensive and had almost as much distortion as a good amp today. Measurements were made in real time with steady state signals with the most basic hardware because that was all that existed. e.g. the most common is THD, Total Harmonic Distortion. Send in a steady state sinewave, which outside of the occasional MOOG type source will never happen in music, and see how much signal exists at the harmonics. Problem is the best numbers are achieved by using massive feedback. Send some of the output of an amp section back to the input to compare and correct for distortions. Great for reproducing a steady state signal where you have time for a signal to settle into place. But screws up musical transients like crazy.
"What audio specs are important?" = I would say: "It depends."
I’ve run into cases where the speakers themselves made “bad” electronics sound excellent.
You statement about speaker's construction is false. There are great cone/dome speakers out there.
None of them...if it sounds goods to YOU then it's all fine.
Conclusion; You really cannot use specs, you just gotta make sure your poweramp can power your speakers, and use your ears for everything else.
And that's really it. Whenever people start throwing specs and theories to make their point, I end the conversation.
It just does not translate to sound.
Well said IMHO
@@user-od9iz9cv1w Thank you!
I do not believe that "sound" is the best measure - because the worst component can be our listening hygiene! We can (must) learn to listen, appreciate the music, the technical playback. Once we have learned to listen, the questions asked become more serious.
#1 cost😊
Amps and speakers. Dead on there
The thing is... you -very very very- rarely buy a piece of audio gear, take it home and it's all sweetness. The success or failure of your purchase lies in the room acoustics and the setup of the WHOLE system. Every detail, every part counts. You buy speakers and install them and they seem a bit bright, or even, say, sibilant, is that the speakers doing that? Highly unlikely, it is way more likely an issue with the setup and the room acoustics. Long story short, if you want to upgrade then first get your act together with extensive setup and exploration of -every single bit- of your system, from the power panel for your house to your ears. Until you intimately know every aspect of your system and setup and acoustics you are not auditioning equipment, you are experiencing different gear as influenced by the sub performing parts of your total system. I set out, 8 years ago, to get great sound, the rules for doing so are no new major parts, no new amps, no new preamps, no new speakers. I have taken awful sound and turned it into great sound and all of the primary stuff is still the same. New speakers would have delivered the same awful sound as the ones I have did, because it wasn't the speakers, it was acoustics and a few other issues letting things down. I have a friend with Magicos driven by expensive and sweet gear, the sound in his room is mediocre, entirely because of the room acoustics. I could fix it but he hasn't taken me up on any of my offers, it makes me sad to see him living like that...
trusting your ears is the most important spec you need to know 🤣🤣🤣
The specs that make most value for speakers are rarely published.
Very true. But, the other factor is the listener. What is he or she listening for?
The price lol
It’s not so much about speaker quality as it is their sound signature.
What sound makes your foot tap!! Buy that speaker.
"Which" not "what" audio specs. Don't hate on me -- this one's obvious.
Run a blind A/B test between a hifi system under test vs a live band, orchestra or a pipe organ. 😂
Why can't you mfg. your loudspeakers here, and not outsourced to China, and you sell at premium prices. Legacy Audio makes them here, and priced less..and they are a better speaker. Includes DSP, and built in amplification. Your speakers are over priced, and basically lack features that are common, it's 2024
Wouldn't you agree people trust numbers more than their ears
What does a “broken coke bottle “ sound like ? Paul’s colloquial speech is befuddling to my ears ! Lol
Its a bad sound, is what i gather :)
Most specs are pretty useless to the consumer
Loudspeakers are not the most important item. They are the final link in the chain and merely pass on what they are fed.. If the preceding links in that chain are not up to snuff, your system as a whole will not perform well. Even modest speakers will give an excellent account of themselves if fed a high quality signal. In fact, highly accurate, resolving speakers fed by an average or less good signal will sound worse than more modest speakers fed by a quality signal.
Loudspeakers are the most important because that is the component that has the biggest variations and are the hardest to get right. They also aren't the final link as the last step is the room, and the speaker is the component that interacts with the room (the other most important component) which makes it even more important. You also don't buy one good thing and do the rest mediocre, you try to buy all good parts but you start with the speaker and then let that decide which electronics you should pair with them, as building a system is about synergy, not just getting arbitrary pieces that are good on their own.
That being said Paul disagrees that high level electronics with low level speakers sounds better than vice versa. The recent video about the Carver challenge probably shows that it's easier to tune a cheap amp to sound like high level ones than it is to create a speaker that sounds like a high level speaker.
It's never a "either this or either that" scenario. But speakers is not apart of the chain in that sense, electronic is just meant to be clean by design, speakers are never clean by their nature, they are an instrument that you're listening to. Like any other instrument they have harmonics and a distortion level far greater than any electronics.
Then there's the room itself and positioning, at least as critical part of the chain as the speakers.
It appears commenters are falling into the trap of believing that I am advocating using cheap/poor quality speakers with high quality electronics. I am not. Obviously, there has to be a degree of balance. However, there is a common misconception that because speakers "make the sound", you should choose them first and spend the highest proportion of your budget on them. My point is that they merely pass on what they are fed. There are plenty of excellent modestly priced speakers available nowadays which offer high performance. A speaker is NOT an "instrument" (I am a musician and know what an instrument is). They do not create any sound. A speaker is a transducer. It converts electrical to acoustic energy. It is utterly dependant on the quality of the electrical signal it receives. GIGO.
@@laurieharper1526 Obviously it's not a instrument in the usual sense, a musician should know that (it's not about price either, though it obviously can and most likely will have an impact at some point). But speakers do have an abundance of properties that affect the reproduction, at a magnitude far greater than the electronics that's feeding it can/should have.
Electronics is relatively cheap or at least fairly straightforward to engineer up to the point of diminishing returns, some of the best amplifier modules in the world is a few hundred dollars (before they are put in a box with a known brand name on it, then the numbers adds up rather quickly behind).
Speakers is a labor of love to create, working through all the sonic properties of each driver (on/off axis response, odd/even harmonics, intermodular distortion, response/decay and so on), then picking the next so it's coherent, trying a variety of box designs (shape, size, driver placement etc as they all impact respons as well as tonality), going back and forth with crossover designs as well as components with the exact same specs but different sound characteristics and with measurements as well as long periods of listening on each configuration. So even if you exclude measurements of frequency response from the equation (like it was a perfect mechanical device that's just transforming electricity to mechanical movement), the tonality can be completely different and at magnitude (dB) far greater than the electronic devices. Or as they say, "speakers is a box full of compromises", it's impossible to build a speaker that's perfect in reproducing sound.
Figuratively electronics is like a pick, it will most definitely impact things, but the speakers are the difference between a Stratocaster with single coil and a Les Paul with humbuckers.
@@laurieharper1526 Of course speakers have their sound. Feed two entirely different speakers with the same electronics and it will sound different. There's a bigger sound variation between speakers than amps.