What a machine joe,watching you toy with it makes me realise what's possible once the kids are dropped off,with your skills it definitely looks like a blast mate...
Much closer than I thought they'd be. My guess is that without the extra weight of the 4WD system, the RWD version would have been almost identical here.
Really interesting to see the difference Joe, great video! Can’t believe how we lucked out with the weather and I haven’t forgotten that hot lap… you were just a tad quicker than my M140 on the day 😂😂😂
Happy New Year to you, Joe! What a great start to the new year content-wise😀. That was very interesting and entertaining to watch, so big thanks for the effort that you had to put into this video. Maybe we can also get a chance to get a video of your Q&A session from the 27th of Dec. I unfortunately missed that and it has been deleted from UA-cam 🥺 wishing nothing but the very best for 2024🎉
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it! I get a bit carried away and "tipsy" on my live streams, I watched back sober and there were a few bits I thought were better kept offline 😂🫣 Have a great 2024!
Been testng M3 Touring today and… Seems I must replace my 911 Carrera T with this one. It is extremly fast, agile and compact machine. Am really impressed 😮
Doing 0-100 today , felt like taking a ride on a roller coaster 🎢 😊 Had a small headache as at first wanted to buy rs6 but trying m3 touring today made me change my mind. BMW is smaller and giving bit more fun than bigger Audi.
Love that. Great driving mate. Love Bedford, great to see you using all the concrete up to the grass, I do the same! 💪 Like you say, if it was wet or cold or greasy it would be a different story, also I feel there'd be a bigger difference in modes with a less competent driver. 👊😉
With the switchable xDrive system, you still seem to get the drive train losses that you get with 4WD and no extra at the top end. Reckon the only advantage of having it is the fun factor really.
Hey Joe, how much difference do you think it'd be with an actual rwd vehicle? Same car but less weight, different steering etc. I definitely know which is more fun between the two, awd v rwd I love this kind of video. I hope this does really well so you can afford to do more.
If BMW did a RWD Touring it would be about 50kg lighter, I'm guessing it would produce a very similar time around Bedford to the heavier xDrive, that difference would obviously grow if conditions were slippery....
Great video Joe, really interesting. Must be nice seeing the M4CS after all this time. I remember you mentioning that in the TRL Grigio Telesto 440i GC video you did , which made me get my Grigio Telesto 440i GC as my last car, i'm enjoying G21 XDR at mo, but got an itch for petrol again and some noise, think i need a G80 / G81 now 🙂
Very interesting to see a practical exanple or the differences between drive systems and lap times particularly on a windy track like Bedford. Great video
Great content like always! Should it be possible to get some more outside shots in the videos? That would really upgrade the content to the next level! (I would love to trade my m140i in for an m3 touring one day!)
The xdrive system only shifts power forward when it detects slip at the rear right? If so, i would expect the grip advantage to mostly be noticeable during launches. Also, I wouldn't expect much of a difference in lap times when driving 9 / 10.
Cracking vid Joe but do you think if the car was the solo rwd which is 50kg lighter would be getting the same times as you said with low fuel Love the content you made me buy an g82 m4 xdrive
Great driving and astonishing good lap times. Would be interesting to know though how much this took out of the car and if the M3 touring is actually a good track day car or just good for a couple of fast laps and then back to the dealer for new brakes tyres and oil?
very interesting to watch, do you think it would be even closer if you had done them the opposite way around? (drivetrain i mean, not track direction) with the rwd tyres nearing max temp in last sector
Good question, I have done some clean laps around there, will need to did them out and have a look. I fear it will be a chunk slower, even after all it's mods...
That would be interesting, I know Steve Sutcliffe managed to get an RS 4 Comp around Llandow a fraction quicker than the M3 Touring, I think a lot of that was down to the RS 4 Comp having really supple suspension and able to ride the Llandow kerbs better.
Btw thanks for your videos on the M3 - they've helped me navigate my purchases - on my second M3 now. First was comp X and now Tanz Blue / Fjord blue buckets 6MT. Don't worry I ppf'd most of it! @@JoeAchilles1
How does it compare in this scenario to the 992 C2S, Joe? I’ve driven the C2S and have it on the vision board, however practicality and affordability is pointing me to the M3 Touring. Appreciate you mate! Sam from Aus
A proper rwd m3 would also drop the weight by 50kg. Hard to take into account in this test, but it would be interesting to see the true difference in the future. Logistically though I get that would be harder to do.
@@JoeAchilles1 yeh absolutely, not exactly viable for such a video. But, if the chance ever came up it would be really interesting to see, though I understand why you can’t. Appreciate the test, and it shows how close it is even with the extra weight.
There would likely be difference in straight line acceleration too, due to the lower drivetrain loss in the pure RWD car. I expect xDrive in RWD mode to still have more drivetrain loss compared to the pure RWD version, since from my understanding the torque still has to travel through the transfer case before reaching the wheels. Carwow has a video on xDrive vs pure RWD, and the RWD was indeed faster in the rolling race. Would be interesting to see a comparison between xDrive AWD and xDrive RWD.
To be fair Joe, this is not really a true AWD vs RWD as you are using the same car and just disengaging the front drive. But what you haven’t factored in to account is the fact a true RWD would also be a lighter car by a fair bit. I appreciate you can’t do this in the touring, but to do this in an M3 saloon X-drive vs RWD would be a truer comparison of AWD vs RWD taking into account weight factor. However it was interesting to see what the difference is when you choose in effect the two different drive modes.
To be fair Mark, money doesn't grow on trees. I did the best I could with what I had on the day. The rwd G80 & G82 have totally different front ends, twice the negative camber etc, so that's not strictly like for like either.
@@JoeAchilles1 I totally understand that Joe and this was not a criticism in anyway. It was more the fact that it was comparing AWD to RWD and in its truest sense this was impossible to do with the same car due to weight differences in theory between two cars and as mentioned that BMW don’t do a RWD touringI believe? So please don’t take this as a negative Joe as I am an avid follower of your channel and only making an observation. As mentioned to do it in the two versions of the M3 saloon would be a more accurate difference between AWD vs RWD. But as said it was good to see the actual little difference with a car that variably can almost give you both worlds? By the way loved the OZ blogs and it gave a great insight into what goes on and the hard work you do to get content out! 👍
Hi joe genuine question and i want to say you are a great driver, but do you think the it would be a different story with a pro driver at the wheel or has x drive just gotten so good now that it wouldn't make a difference, i have a 140 and always wondering how good it would be with 4WD
It would be hard to say, but I'm certain a much lighter pro driver would certainly squeeze another 1-2 seconds out of each lap, meaning their rwd lap would match my 4WD lap, but their 4WD lap would be a good 1.5-2 seconds faster again...
A better driver would be faster with rwd as rwd cars are faster on track (awd have heavier differential, lose a bit of power etc) and an awd would under steer a lot more than rwd. That’s why alot of younger inexperienced people prefer s3s and rs3s over 140s and m4s etc, s3s take zero skill to drive, 140s keep you on your toes
@@Dean_cee We are comparing the same car with switchable M xDrive, what you're saying is completely unrelated to this particular test. A pro driver wouldn't be quicker in RWD in this car, that is a fact!
A well driven 300+ hp hatch is always going to have a good chance against a 260hp diesel (heavier) estate full of Police gear. A Golf R wouldn't stand much of a chance against an M3 Touring.
Sorry, but for me it’s normal that an M3 xdrive is slower on a track in 2WD instead of in 4WD mode. The car is the same and U got no advantages in 2WD apart from fun! It world be much more interesting to compare, on the same track, the same day, with the same driver, two different M3 G80 Competition: an RWD against an xdrive! In this case it world be interesting to find out if less weight and a more precise front-end beat the better traction of the xdrive. My two cents ;)
Why are you sorry? Surely it's obvious for anyone with half a brain, it was just a bit of fun and science that I found interesting. If I win the lottery, I will try G80 vs G80 X although that's not fair either as both cars have different front ends.
@@JoeAchilles1 my dear, if you want only comments of compliments and regards, ok, this will be my last one. As I’ve got not only half brain, I don't think you would have any problems getting two G80s to do the testing, without necessarily having to buy them. It was just an advise. Have a nice day.
@@JoeAchilles1 by the way, it seems to me G80 xdrive is slightly higher in the front end. So, if you consider that it also has differential and axles, I think that it is reasonable to expect a less precise front end. But I could be wrong, as BMW has really surprised us with these latest generations of M xdrive. Bye bye.
I believe the difference is due to tires grip. *Because 4s are performance tires but not necessarily track tires, you lose grip, thus relying on awd to pull you out*. If the conditions would have been better and you would have been on cups, I trully believe the 2wd would have been faster.
Running Cups or Cup R's would certainly help the rwd setup, but it's never going to be faster in a car that's setup to run both, especially the M xDrive that is rear biased and has perfect on the limit handling....
@@JoeAchilles1I understand what you are saying; for general driving in all conditions, I do agree with your assessment. Not with cups on it and on grippy(normal) track surface conditions and surface temps. IMO, the advantage of the awd set-up is due to these variables, which in low grip situations make a lot of difference. cheers and thx for your reply.
@@JoeAchilles1 Still cracks me up that Tim took me on my Apex Taxi hot lap, and we were talking about his Sim Rig business, then next minute he pops up on your channel. Enjoy, and get Lou into it as well. And Rally!
What a machine joe,watching you toy with it makes me realise what's possible once the kids are dropped off,with your skills it definitely looks like a blast mate...
Haha yes that's what makes it so good, ticks so many boxes 🙌🏽
epic driving Joe!
You made those fast parts look soooo easy!!
Thanks buddy 🙏🏽
Really interesting to watch! Love your tekkers and I'm glad I'm not the only one who does accidental wiper oversteer
Haha yes mate happens to the best of us 😂
Brilliant Joe, you were pushing the car to the very limit that day. Roll on the summer! Bedford roxs :)
Astonishing vehicle, so capable, nicely driven too. Thanks, Joe.
Cheers man thank you 🙏🏽
Love this bro! Great breakdown of the lap too 🙏
More of these please Joe!! 😊
Much closer than I thought they'd be. My guess is that without the extra weight of the 4WD system, the RWD version would have been almost identical here.
Really interesting to see the difference Joe, great video! Can’t believe how we lucked out with the weather and I haven’t forgotten that hot lap… you were just a tad quicker than my M140 on the day 😂😂😂
Thanks buddy, yeah what a perfect day weather wise wasn't it! Happy 2024 🙂
Really enjoyed this video Joe 👌
Great video. Good to see John mentioned. My G80 ownership is very much shaped by you and John.
Really interesting video Joe. I love this kind of geeky tests.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Insane video as per, you literally have my dream job
Thank you!
That is some serious pedalling mate!! What a car 👌🏼
We need to do a track day together soon 🏁
@@JoeAchilles1yes! Let’s get it in the calendar!
Super interesting material and great analysis!
Thank you!
Awd for grip and rwd for fun 🚀🚀
Exactly that 👊🏽
Happy New Year to you, Joe!
What a great start to the new year content-wise😀.
That was very interesting and entertaining to watch, so big thanks for the effort that you had to put into this video.
Maybe we can also get a chance to get a video of your Q&A session from the 27th of Dec. I unfortunately missed that and it has been deleted from UA-cam 🥺 wishing nothing but the very best for 2024🎉
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it! I get a bit carried away and "tipsy" on my live streams, I watched back sober and there were a few bits I thought were better kept offline 😂🫣 Have a great 2024!
Very interesting analysis, I loved it.
By the way, nice BFGoodrich mug on the desk...😉
Been testng M3 Touring today and… Seems I must replace my 911 Carrera T with this one. It is extremly fast, agile and compact machine. Am really impressed 😮
Impressive package isn't it 👌🏼
Doing 0-100 today , felt like taking a ride on a roller coaster 🎢 😊
Had a small headache as at first wanted to buy rs6 but trying m3 touring today made me change my mind. BMW is smaller and giving bit more fun than bigger Audi.
Love that. Great driving mate. Love Bedford, great to see you using all the concrete up to the grass, I do the same! 💪
Like you say, if it was wet or cold or greasy it would be a different story, also I feel there'd be a bigger difference in modes with a less competent driver. 👊😉
With the switchable xDrive system, you still seem to get the drive train losses that you get with 4WD and no extra at the top end.
Reckon the only advantage of having it is the fun factor really.
Yeah very true, I've experimented with that on long runs with mpg etc too and seems to make no difference 👌🏽
Hey Joe, how much difference do you think it'd be with an actual rwd vehicle? Same car but less weight, different steering etc.
I definitely know which is more fun between the two, awd v rwd
I love this kind of video. I hope this does really well so you can afford to do more.
If BMW did a RWD Touring it would be about 50kg lighter, I'm guessing it would produce a very similar time around Bedford to the heavier xDrive, that difference would obviously grow if conditions were slippery....
This has been done by Steve Sutcliffe for Evo at Bedford Autodrome. AWD was 0.5 secs faster.
When racing driver Sam off carwow tried this in the rolling race, it doesn't seem to send all of the power in RWD mode
Great vid 😊haven’t driven Bedford in a long time
Great video Joe, really interesting. Must be nice seeing the M4CS after all this time. I remember you mentioning that in the TRL Grigio Telesto 440i GC video you did , which made me get my Grigio Telesto 440i GC as my last car, i'm enjoying G21 XDR at mo, but got an itch for petrol again and some noise, think i need a G80 / G81 now 🙂
Cheers man! Yes great memory 👌🏼
I really enjoyed this video, It would be interesting to see how the times compare to your M3 Touring with the mods you have on.
Would be great to see the same test with the actual RWD V XDrive without the extra weight on the axle
This! Probably the rwd is quicker in dry conditions due to lesser weight and being more agile. On this track at least.
We need this repeating in the wet please: the time difference will amount to hours ⏱️ / yes Xdrive 💪
Would love to do that, that's where the xDrive would shine and where a pro driver would be helpful!
Lovely BMW!
Really was a wonderful spec!
Very interesting to see a practical exanple or the differences between drive systems and lap times particularly on a windy track like Bedford. Great video
Thank you!
Great stuff Joe and Happy New Year! Which do you have more fun in on track out of all of your M3s and the M2?
Great content like always! Should it be possible to get some more outside shots in the videos? That would really upgrade the content to the next level! (I would love to trade my m140i in for an m3 touring one day!)
Thank you! As a one man band, it's impossible to get fly bys at track days.
The xdrive system only shifts power forward when it detects slip at the rear right? If so, i would expect the grip advantage to mostly be noticeable during launches. Also, I wouldn't expect much of a difference in lap times when driving 9 / 10.
Cracking vid Joe but do you think if the car was the solo rwd which is 50kg lighter would be getting the same times as you said with low fuel
Love the content you made me buy an g82 m4 xdrive
Sub 2:40 at bedford is mighty!
I ❤ track days.
Me too!
Great driving and astonishing good lap times. Would be interesting to know though how much this took out of the car and if the M3 touring is actually a good track day car or just good for a couple of fast laps and then back to the dealer for new brakes tyres and oil?
very interesting to watch, do you think it would be even closer if you had done them the opposite way around? (drivetrain i mean, not track direction) with the rwd tyres nearing max temp in last sector
Glad you enjoyed it! Hmm maybe, I did actually do two cool down laps between timed ones, tried to make everything even as possible on the day.
The G series m3 touring is an absolute dream daily.
I'm very fortunate to run mine, in fact today it's doing multiple runs to the tip 👌🏼
Amazing! You're a very lucky man. @@JoeAchilles1
did you time your M2 on that layout? if yes in which build stage and how did the times compare?
Good question, I have done some clean laps around there, will need to did them out and have a look. I fear it will be a chunk slower, even after all it's mods...
@@JoeAchilles1 would be interesting to compare if they had the same power/weight ratio
Great comparison. I wonder how the touring would fare against other wagons on track.
That would be interesting, I know Steve Sutcliffe managed to get an RS 4 Comp around Llandow a fraction quicker than the M3 Touring, I think a lot of that was down to the RS 4 Comp having really supple suspension and able to ride the Llandow kerbs better.
Such a cool video. Wonder how 4WD in MDM mode would do.
Thanks man! That would be interesting too, think it would help a bit in slippery conditions, but just overheat brakes in the dry....
Btw thanks for your videos on the M3 - they've helped me navigate my purchases - on my second M3 now. First was comp X and now Tanz Blue / Fjord blue buckets 6MT. Don't worry I ppf'd most of it! @@JoeAchilles1
Joe ur top lad but don't think ur 002 whatever off to laps brother. Love your stuff
How does it compare in this scenario to the 992 C2S, Joe? I’ve driven the C2S and have it on the vision board, however practicality and affordability is pointing me to the M3 Touring. Appreciate you mate! Sam from Aus
A proper rwd m3 would also drop the weight by 50kg. Hard to take into account in this test, but it would be interesting to see the true difference in the future. Logistically though I get that would be harder to do.
That would mean getting two M3 saloons, two track day entries, two lots of track day insurance etc etc.
@@JoeAchilles1 yeh absolutely, not exactly viable for such a video. But, if the chance ever came up it would be really interesting to see, though I understand why you can’t. Appreciate the test, and it shows how close it is even with the extra weight.
There would likely be difference in straight line acceleration too, due to the lower drivetrain loss in the pure RWD car. I expect xDrive in RWD mode to still have more drivetrain loss compared to the pure RWD version, since from my understanding the torque still has to travel through the transfer case before reaching the wheels.
Carwow has a video on xDrive vs pure RWD, and the RWD was indeed faster in the rolling race. Would be interesting to see a comparison between xDrive AWD and xDrive RWD.
To be fair Joe, this is not really a true AWD vs RWD as you are using the same car and just disengaging the front drive. But what you haven’t factored in to account is the fact a true RWD would also be a lighter car by a fair bit. I appreciate you can’t do this in the touring, but to do this in an M3 saloon X-drive vs RWD would be a truer comparison of AWD vs RWD taking into account weight factor.
However it was interesting to see what the difference is when you choose in effect the two different drive modes.
To be fair Mark, money doesn't grow on trees. I did the best I could with what I had on the day. The rwd G80 & G82 have totally different front ends, twice the negative camber etc, so that's not strictly like for like either.
@@JoeAchilles1
I totally understand that Joe and this was not a criticism in anyway. It was more the fact that it was comparing AWD to RWD and in its truest sense this was impossible to do with the same car due to weight differences in theory between two cars and as mentioned that BMW don’t do a RWD touringI believe? So please don’t take this as a negative Joe as I am an avid follower of your channel and only making an observation. As mentioned to do it in the two versions of the M3 saloon would be a more accurate difference between AWD vs RWD. But as said it was good to see the actual little difference with a car that variably can almost give you both worlds? By the way loved the OZ blogs and it gave a great insight into what goes on and the hard work you do to get content out! 👍
I wonder how much faster a genuine RWD only version would be, without the extra weight of the xDrive stuff.
This 4WD I think, will still rotate gears and shafts for 4WD in 2WD. A 2WD version only would be faster?
Hi joe genuine question and i want to say you are a great driver, but do you think the it would be a different story with a pro driver at the wheel or has x drive just gotten so good now that it wouldn't make a difference, i have a 140 and always wondering how good it would be with 4WD
It would be hard to say, but I'm certain a much lighter pro driver would certainly squeeze another 1-2 seconds out of each lap, meaning their rwd lap would match my 4WD lap, but their 4WD lap would be a good 1.5-2 seconds faster again...
A better driver would be faster with rwd as rwd cars are faster on track (awd have heavier differential, lose a bit of power etc) and an awd would under steer a lot more than rwd. That’s why alot of younger inexperienced people prefer s3s and rs3s over 140s and m4s etc, s3s take zero skill to drive, 140s keep you on your toes
@@Dean_cee We are comparing the same car with switchable M xDrive, what you're saying is completely unrelated to this particular test. A pro driver wouldn't be quicker in RWD in this car, that is a fact!
@@JoeAchilles1 yeah that makes sense, i think the 4WD massively helps with road cars on non slicks
Do it again in the rain
Pisses me off that I can’t buy this m3 in the US
Yeah big shame!
I will be stealing your lines!
Haha we need to see what your weapon can do mate, hopefully see you at a track day soon 🏁
@@JoeAchilles1 100% need to get some tracktime booked this year!
interesting but in the real world on british roads its always funny how a hot hatch like a golf r can get away from big estate bmw cop cars
A well driven 300+ hp hatch is always going to have a good chance against a 260hp diesel (heavier) estate full of Police gear. A Golf R wouldn't stand much of a chance against an M3 Touring.
You should try with rwd m3 without 4wd option it is lighter 😉
That wasn't the point of this test.
You’d have to do this balls out with both, but this wasn’t balls out
The benefit of the 2WD car is that it's lighter, so wouldn't it have been better to test the proper 2WD car against the 4WD car?
They don't do a RWD touring. It's what I had available on the day and I decided to film this video 🎬
Comparison doesn‘t get the point. Clearly AWD is faster in tight corners but most important point is, that the RWD is probably 50 to 100 kg less
Most important point is, it's the same car so no weight difference in this test. Get the point.
Noisy machine 🤔 I think that might get on my nerves after a week or so. 🤷♂️
Sorry, but for me it’s normal that an M3 xdrive is slower on a track in 2WD instead of in 4WD mode. The car is the same and U got no advantages in 2WD apart from fun!
It world be much more interesting to compare, on the same track, the same day, with the same driver, two different M3 G80 Competition: an RWD against an xdrive! In this case it world be interesting to find out if less weight and a more precise front-end beat the better traction of the xdrive.
My two cents ;)
Why are you sorry? Surely it's obvious for anyone with half a brain, it was just a bit of fun and science that I found interesting. If I win the lottery, I will try G80 vs G80 X although that's not fair either as both cars have different front ends.
@@JoeAchilles1 my dear, if you want only comments of compliments and regards, ok, this will be my last one.
As I’ve got not only half brain, I don't think you would have any problems getting two G80s to do the testing, without necessarily having to buy them. It was just an advise.
Have a nice day.
@@JoeAchilles1 by the way, it seems to me G80 xdrive is slightly higher in the front end. So, if you consider that it also has differential and axles, I think that it is reasonable to expect a less precise front end. But I could be wrong, as BMW has really surprised us with these latest generations of M xdrive. Bye bye.
I believe the difference is due to tires grip. *Because 4s are performance tires but not necessarily track tires, you lose grip, thus relying on awd to pull you out*. If the conditions would have been better and you would have been on cups, I trully believe the 2wd would have been faster.
Running Cups or Cup R's would certainly help the rwd setup, but it's never going to be faster in a car that's setup to run both, especially the M xDrive that is rear biased and has perfect on the limit handling....
@@JoeAchilles1I understand what you are saying; for general driving in all conditions, I do agree with your assessment. Not with cups on it and on grippy(normal) track surface conditions and surface temps. IMO, the advantage of the awd set-up is due to these variables, which in low grip situations make a lot of difference. cheers and thx for your reply.
Driver.
How’s the Sim Rig going Joe? Enjoying it? Join a league and get into it. Brilliant fun.
Sim is going well mate, just haven't had much time to play it much unfortunately... Been doing some online stuff with GT7 which is fun !
@@JoeAchilles1 Still cracks me up that Tim took me on my Apex Taxi hot lap, and we were talking about his Sim Rig business, then next minute he pops up on your channel.
Enjoy, and get Lou into it as well. And Rally!