Episode 3 FLAT RATE Humble Mechanic Podcast
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- See more at humblemechanic....
Today we are talking Flat Rate. The system that many technicians get paid. There are some pros and some cons to this system. Is it prefect, NO! But it is the system in place, and today we look at many side of the Flat Rate system.
Oh, and sorry about the watermark. I am testing some video editing software. That will be gone on future episodes.
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The content of this video is available for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for the professional advice of a mechanic who has personally inspected your vehicle, nor does it create a relationship of any kind between the Humble Mechanic and you. Every situation may be different, and the Humble Mechanic does not make any warranties, whether express or implied, as to the accuracy, fitness, or applicability of the information or automotive parts portrayed in this video to any project and makes no guarantee of results. The Humble Mechanic and any sponsors of this video will not be liable for any damages related to personal injury, property damage or loss of any kind that may result from the use or reliance on this video and/or any automotive parts represented in this video. You are using the information and automotive parts portrayed in this video solely at your own risk.
I've been on per hour and on an hour+bonus system. The latter made me a lot of money because I worked hard. Then a new manager decided that I was making too much money because he figured it was too easy whilst the real reason is because it was an incentive for me to work real hard. So they slashed my bonus which of course killed the incentive for me to work hard and then they questioned why my productivity went south. These pen pushers are they're own worst enemy and don't understand people and their motivations.
Flat rate can be great for dealership techs like myself. I'm not sure how the independent guys work on flat rate and survive. I personally like the mental game that you mentioned. How can I do this job in the least amount of steps while still doing a good job? The thing I dislike the most is warranty work. For Lexus, a water pump on 2013 ES350 pays 2.4 hrs warranty time, 6 hrs customer pay. For that engine and body style (transverse V6), you have to jack the engine up at an angle to have clearance to remove many of the bolts as well as the water pump itself. At best, I can break even time-wise. I'm convinced they had a few Japanese guys smoke crack and fly through the job for the warranty time study.
Great video. I just worked at a shop where we got hourly guaranteed plus flat rate incentive. That was a great motivator for me. I knew I was getting my 8 hours each day, and that freed me up to work smart and hard to earn above it, ending up with about 120-130% each month.
Thanks for the feedback Shawn Seeley I think the guaranteed plus is a good system. If I were setting the rules, I would make the guarantee a livable wage, but not exactly big bucks. It would be enough to pay the bills, but something that no one really wanted to get.
Hi Charles!
Some time ago I was paid by the hour. Now I''m in the flat rate system... Since I am in flat rate system, in six month I had so much mistakes(minors of course, but mistakes). When I was paid by the hour I was one of the best. I never had a car fixed twice, when the vehicule was done, it was well done. With the flat rate I have much more money, but I am no more the splendid mechanic.
All of the pay systems have distinct advantages and dis-advantages. Working in the independent auto repair business is indeed a dis-advantage when it comes to troubleshooting and repairing multiple makes and models of vehicles a much larger knowledge base is needed to diagnose accurately and repair quickly. I would have to say that as far as what the job pays indeed should vary based upon region of the country, I am a technician in upstate New York and often wish I was in southern California during repairs! I would make a killing turning wrenches in a different part of the country! heck I'm sure many technicians have never had to use a oxy/acetylene torch, Heat inductor, Deal with extractor sockets and removal tools daily.. often we beat the book time but there is always jobs that you get caught very hard due to the environmental impact on our vehicles in the northeast!
I think base pay+ commission is the best happy medium. I worked at a shop that was hourly and the pay wasn't worth the amount of work we did. They recently changed the pay to base pay plus commission so you could almost make 50% more depending on the amount of work you do. It just gives more incentive to work.
I'm a retired heavy equipment mechanic, Most of my career I was paid by the hour. During the eighties downturn I worked for a honda dealership. At that time I was in my early forties and flat rate kicked my ass BAD. I'm sure beating flat rate is easier when your in your twenties and thirties,, but you can't retire at 40. The way I see it, if your happy working flat rate stick with it, But if you want something that will give you some benefits and retirement -- Get yourself into a UNION heavy equipment repair position. Come time to retire, You'll be glad you did.
Hey Robert, I hope you dont mind me asking how did you start in heavy equipment repair? whats starting pay ? what type of tools are used ? Thank you sir
Michael Barragan
My Dad was the shop foreman in a heavy equipment shop, I grew up around the business. Things have changed a whole lot since I started back in the sixties. Your best deal is to start working in a heavy equipment dealership, CAT dealership is the best, but the competition to get in can be tough -- especially since the economic downturn. Next try for a union sponsored apprenticeship, In Utah, Nevada, California and Hawaii Operating Engineers local 3 has a good program -- Again might be tough to get in because of the economic downturn. Construction work is feast or famine and you must be able to "follow the work" when you need to. Pay and benefits make it all worth while, Think apprentices start out around $15.00 per hour, four year program with regular pay increases.-- Good insurance and retirement benefits. Don't give up if things are tight and you can't get in, When work picks up it's much easier to get hired. No flat rate -- hourly pay with overtime over 40 hours. You don't need as many tools in heavy equipment as would if you were working on cars. Lots of working outside -- It's hard work, but the pay and benefits make it a win win. Good Luck !!!
I can remember some times where I came in with the attitude of "no stress today,I make what I am going to make'. Some lower level management people noticed how I was working different. I was asked if I was not worried about "beating flat rate" and i replied "if I do I do". My point is, management wants you to stress over beating flat rate, they want the job to be stressful and uncomfortable. I moved on rather quickly from these shops that used the stress generated by flat rate as a motivator as I felt there are better ways to motivate a guy besides saying "I guess you work for minimum wage today"
My answer to the unfair flat rate system. More flexibility in the labor times. A common come back is "well if you write a good story we will see if you can get some OL (other labor), sure. During Christmas time one year I coined a little song sung to the tune of a Christmas favorite "Noel,Noel". In my song it went "NO OL, NO OL. The manufacture and the Dealership have the deep pockets, why does every cost saving method come from reducing labor times?
OH, fix the dispatch process, no more "fed boys". I remember one day when one of our "hourly boys" was doing a big Inspection II on a BMW. Inspection II is the highest paying customer pay service type job, in every shop I had worked previously Inspections are reserved for guys that are good enough to go flat rate. I pulled up my number on the dispatch computer and a flat tire repair came up, punched out early that day. Probably a week or so later I was working and flagging my normal hours again at the GM Dealer next door. I wanted to stay with BMW but they hired an inexperienced Service Manager that did not know how the game was played. To much messing with guys (messing with them through the flat rate system) will cause a guy to move on. Don't forget that your skills are valuable and they put wheels on your box for a reason.
I personally like Flat Rate, I've done it for over 20 years and its all I understand anymore. I think someone on flatrate is more likely to stick with the same car brand or develop special skills and form a Monopoly in certain areas of repair. Being good at what you do and knowing how to get paid with good documentation for warranty means sticking with the product awhile and taking on higher skill sets. The best paying job I ever had was as a Transmission Specialist in a Mercedes Benz Dealership. I worked in two Dealers where I was the only one who could properly do overhauls and thats all I did for awhile. I won't even post the kind of Hrs I was making with that Monopoly but it made working Hourly seem like a bad idea. Mercedes did drop the Times and made more hoops to jump through but the point I'm trying to get across is get good at an area everyone avoids and run with it.
correct me if i'm wrong, but I feel like flat rate just encourages techs to work FAST in order to try "beat the system" but not really to take the time to really understand & fix stuff in the most economic or sensible way possible thus saving the customer money and building trust/relationships. Like its all about the upsell and not really about spending time diagnosing stuff properly or figuring out what is the simplest/best / most economical solution. its just change the part and youre done. you also pointed out that when you have to do flat rate and train someone at the same time that gets crazy and it makes me wonder if people are getting trained properly...? or if some stuff just falls to the wayside . if everyones always rushing all the time in order to "beat the system" how do people learn anything?
It definitely makes you more likely to throw parts at stuff rather than follow a diagnostic process. Especially talking about warranty work. They (Chrysler) didn't pay shit for warranty jobs to begin with, and there wasn't any diag time. So you just guess most of the time.
i was flat rate in an AAA independent full service shop.. tow in after tow in. diag after diag after diag, very weird problems. hard to diagnose multiple car brands everyday and still make time. Everyday was a hustle to catch back up. That's why i believe that flat rate is best when at a dealer where you can study and know ONE brand.
Yeah in that environment I can imagine it being really really hard. I hope you have moved on to something better for your
I spoke with a tech after a huge insurance issue after going to Jiffy Lube to get service done on my mk6 GTI on a Sunday (because it was the only place open) and three days later having my car completely breakdown. I can't even remember all of the issues, but in layman's terms the engine was destroyed from whatever the "tech" at Jiffy Lube did. The tech at the VW dealership hooked me up and took more than enough time to explain the situation to me. Ended up being an issue with the oil filter Jiffy Lube installed on the motor, it didn't have a pressure release valve which ended up causing issues internally and ultimately destroying the engine. Jiffy Lube ended up paying for a brand new 2.0 TSI engine for my mk6 GTI and I've gone to this same dealership for general services ever since, and won't even consider going anywhere else.
So, yes I think taking that extra few minutes to communicate with your customers is highly beneficial for not only the customer and the dealership, but long term for the technician as well!
I worked in a shop once where it was minimum wage plus 10 percent commission.
As an employee, assuming there was no diagnosis work to do, I loved the blended system. I was guaranteed at least enough money to keep me coming in, however I was challenged to be efficient because an extra 3.00 on a tire repair was motivation enough for me to not stand around thumb in butt.
Because after all these are people's lives and their own busy schedules we are interfering with. In the two weeks I was there I lost count of how many times I had someone come in with a flat tire because we were the closest shop, and how it was on me to diagnose the flat, fix it, balance it, mount it, and get them back on the road heading in the direction they were traveling.
As a customer in the know (can get at least Mercedes factory flat) I be fine with that, knowing he/she beat the time. But that time that it took longer make it all come out even. With flat, the customer isn't surprised when the actual repair cost is 10 times more than the estimate.
Better yet, Charles totally like your idea of communicating with the customer that going to take more than when the vehical is new. Having worked on classic Volkswagen that lived in salt environment and diesels, understand. Just keep me in touch is all I ask.
As for the short answers, now understand the seeming discrepancy between my mechanic wanting to help and not talking. He just wants to work, even if no benefit other than the enjoyment, so like me. Now will just say nothing and if have a question, look online.
Thank you for another great video jammed full of information.
I quit working as a mechanic 2years ago. Sometimes it was just impossible to do everything in the given time limit, for example: A rusted old Jeep Cherokee:
Full big maintenance (spark plugs, all filters, oil, service interval reset, lubricating joints, checking rusted brake lines, full car check including checking and calculating rust percentage if applicable), full yearly state safety/enviromental friendly check plus officially putting in this data in the PC, ordering parts & washing the car...
I was also expected to train a freshly new mechanic at the time aswell, which I liked, but didn't get the time for.
Time given?? Flat 1hour and 8 minutes (flat time for every model/vehicle) from the moment you get the car keys (This was when I worked in a universal shop for a fixed hourly income, still got bashed if you didn't keep up)
Generally, the best productivity of labor as a whole is where people get paid by the hour and have job security. Less stress, more commitment to the company you are working for (and vice versa). Numbers do not lie. My father was a car technician and he hated flat rates when he worked in South Africa. He felt it was a breach of trust between the owner of the dealership and him. He got his way. He was not "flat rated". When he had to go back to the Netherlands again, the dealership owner said to him, I am old, you can have the whole company for a price that is easy to afford. Why? Because trust paid off.
I have 20yrs experience as an auto tech and do all my own work. my 09 Corolla had a recall notice for possible sticking gas pedal, so i brought the car in. dealer shaved the bottom edge of pedal to prevent possible interference with floor mat, simple mod.
well, here's my flat rate story- they didn't mention and i didn't authorize a vehicle inspection, but they did one anyway. adviser calls me and says my front brakes, battery and air filter are bad. I declined the work.
i get my car back and on a hunch in the parking lot, pop the hood to find the air intake not put back together- the filter is just laying in there. I bitched about that and went home. then a week later car won't start, i find the battery terminal is loose. little while later I find a stripped lug nut on driver front wheel side. BTW, nobody has ever touched this car except me before this dealer trip. Then the capper- my driver side CV boot is throwing grease. the reason? large pin-hole leak in the boot. guess what- they don't fail that way.
All I can guess is this damage was intentional and malicious because the tech did the inspection and had to put the car back together without getting paid.
Wow but then again i'm not surprised after turning wrenches for many years. There is always the tech that feels they are owed those hours and customers should go with what service writer recommended and have been at dealerships where that tech> writer relationship drives a lot of bs work. Im surprised you didn't go back to service manager or dealer gm to voice your findings.
only thing I found up front was the intake. the tech put that back together and scurried off. The other sins weren't uncovered soon enough. And then my word against theirs, losing battle. what also pissed me off is i didn't ask for an inspection anyway.
halleffect1 I'd never go back to that shop again
Could have been just that 1 bad apple, and he could have moved on to another shop. but I haven't been back either way.
halleffect1 good because if he messed up an easy job imagine how a hard job would turn out
My instructor made a comment that I kinda agreed with about customers asking questions. Most techs go to school and pay all this money to get taught in this field. And your knowledge on cars is your worth. And there's nothing wrong with explaining to the customer what's wrong with their vehicle but if they're just calling they might try to find some place cheaper or even attempt to do it themselves and you just lost yourself a job. So helping customers isn't necessarily a bad thing but like you said if you aren't working then you're not getting paid.
Different field but as a Architectural Technologist (house design) we get clients calling all the time during a project to discuss the design or technical aspects. We charge for this time and most understand that, but we have a few who get upset that we would charge them for a 15 minute conversation or email... except they called 5 times with 15 minutes each time and it adds up.... and takes away from our other projects. As you say our expertise and knowledge and time is our commodity, we have to charge for it to make any sort of income.
Don't you guys charge for diagnose? In my field I do explain the issue but I charge money for that "advise". They damn well know that it's easier to repair than to diagnose in many cases. When I ask my mechanic advise and going to do it myself I tip him, Even though I bring him plenty of business since I have Several cars doing 350 a DAY! Experience is more important than skill in many cases. I had a bad misfire on my bimmer, I was stuck out of town, I went in bmw dealership was about to charge my ass off, I went to a private, 650$ later we still have the issue. I then rent a car, tow this one to my home town mechanic. And I didn't give him the background story just to kind of put my mechanic to a test, (if he suggests the same I would tell I have done it already else where but they may have done a bad job so try). He end up fixing it for 250$ (bad plugs which were BRAND NEW from bmw dealership!!! I serviced it and then went to long road trip)
The way i check my brake lights and reverse lights is when i go to the coffee shop or grocery store they normally have one of those windows where it reflects...as long as your rear of your car is facing towards it you can see if its working in your rearview mirror
a fair system would need to recognise that jobs requiring a higher level of training and experience should pay better. Troubleshooting a problem involving computerized control systems should pay better per hour than changing out brake pads.
It does most of the time. In the Dealership world techs that have higher certification usually get higher wages. Some Dealers have multi rate where all techs get a crap rate for an oil change or something like that. It all works out but one thing is for sure not every one is gonna be happy
hey Charles.. ask your techs what they would think about a "flat rate and a half system".. its still flat rate for the brake job, but if it took longer, you would receive half your per hour rate for the rest of the job.. the tech isnt finishing the job for free.. but the shop isnt paying straight time either.. seems like a fair compromise.. the goal is still getting the job done, but neither party gets raped if the job goes sideways.. and if the tech can justify why it took longer, then the service manager should be able to explain it to the customer so that they understand the extra charge.. i dont mind paying techs for their work.. i get pissed when i get charged extra and the service manager cannot accurately explain WHY i was charged extra.. love the vids..
What would the incentive be for working hard and finishing the job? Is busting your butt or buying high dollar tools worth a few bucks an hour?
Why not work less hard for more dollars per hour?
I love the spirit of what you are thinking. But we have to think about what "getting charged extra" means. And then where is the cut off? If a job is done 5 minutes early considered extra 15 minutes, 30, 60?
Plus this creates a whole different issue with accounting and tracking. If this had to be tracked using time clock punches you have the tech controlling it. So to cheat that system, a tech would stay punched on one job, and start working on the next one. That way they are ahead of the clock when the time clock flips to the next repair.
There problem is, customers will always feel like they are paying too much, techs will always feel they should be paid more.
Btw your channel is addictive, thank you for all these awesome videos!
+Cinister Pictures thanks so much.
@jacob Not sure why I can't reply directly to your comment.
Most all the services are recommended by the factory. That is where the service intervals come from. From a tech stand point, it gives us proof that a service is recommended. We can show a customer that this is what VW, or Ford recommend.
If you mean the "free maintenance" I have mixed feelings. It pays okay for me. It is free to the customer, and that is good for them. But It makes that first service you have seem very expensive. Plus(and this blows my mind) we still have people miss their service. How do you miss a FREE SERVICE? crazy. I hope I answered your question.
Flat rate can be awesome and it can hurt you. At my dealership if we finish a job too fast and consistently beat the time, we end up having a meeting to lower the flat rate time because management assumes the job is too easy. Simultaneously they raise the hourly labor rate for customers so they don't lose out. In my opinion, the problem with the industry is that there are too many managers that do not have tech experience and only focus on the pencil pushing mentality or numbers if you will.
This is my answer to the question asked about the tech stopping what he is doing to talk/help customers. First I think its a good thing to it earns trust and I think that is valuable. I also would say if the same person constantly calls asking for advice and help then maybe address that with a stern conversation about time and how you paid.
Great video! This is a hot topic. If shops would switch over to hourly it would be DISASTROUS! They would hire LESS people and load those hired up with MORE work to suck as much value out of them as possible. I know because I've worked hourly before and got completely taken advantage of.
I had the service writer sell a long block on a Rialta for 28hrs and I did it in 18 and change so I didn’t charge the customer but 20 because I had some fun with rusted stuff. Anyway, I won that customer over from then on. (I had the only rack big enough for a Rialta).
Flat rate is good in theory, but in my experience at a dealership it was not good for me. Often times I would be stuck fixing other peoples' crappy jobs they did previously, plus the new job, and still only get paid for the flat labor it called for in the book. We often would be expected to do extra things for free. If there were modifications to a vehicle that made a certain job more difficult we would still get paid as if the vehicle were factory. It was a constant battle with other people for use of shop tools to get the job done. Most mechanics would not do basic things like take their own used tires out, so to get to the machine I would have to dispose of their tires just to do my job. I could continue writing many, many more things if I wanted to.
Thanks for the insight! How do you (and your fellow technicians) feel about factory service schedules? Do they help the customer? Do they help you? Is that good for your pay? Do you find that customers are willing to follow the schedule? Anything on that topic?
It seems to me that a dealership mechanic working on the same vehicles with the same problems every day would have a distinct advantage over a general shop mechanic that has to work on a lot of different types of vehicles. But I'm no expert and the last time I got paid to be a mechanic Was over 30 years ago.
Brian Gillen You are right, we do have the advantage of working on the same car line all day. We also have plenty of levels of support when diagnosing really tough problems.
I think in the end a technician will be as honest and diligent as his or her work ethics allow regardless of pay. I see the benifets of flat rate. I'm a machinist and when a job comes out it has a time quote that is representative of the amount of money the shop is getting paid to make the part. Machinists get paid hourly so hitting the quote is only as important as the boss hounding you makes it. I try to beat the quotes and I am very good at it but some of the people I have worked with over the years say this magical phrase " it all pays the same". Over the years I've gotten burned out at being one of the few that try to think outside the box to make these numbers work for the company because at the end of the day our success as a whole will be lowered by these clock punchers that don't necessarily give a damn about their trade. It has become more difficult to eek out a profit because of the global market and most notably China getting a lot of work that would otherwise be in shops like the one I work at. I was told by those older and more experienced that shops used to do merit profit sharing if you beat a quote you would get a percentage of the profit. That benefit (at least in my area) has all but vanished. I still work diligently and challenge myself to beat even my last time for a repeat job but it seems like a hallow victory when that job is assigned to another machinist and they get the same pat on the back taking twice or in some cases three times as long. I could see where flat rate would be beneficial to my field as well.
This video his the nail on the head.
As an green horn, FNG, my initial response to technicians having to answer customer questions, is no. The technician is being paid to turn the wrench that fixes the car. Now should the shop foreman or the shop manager, or even the service writer, yes absolutely. However that requires moving the shop foreman from flat rate to a salary or a commission type of pay based on all the work done for the day, I don't know. It probably wouldn't hurt to have the service writer know how to answer some of the questions too.
@HumbleMechanic, your a shop foreman now how do you feel about moving to a salaried position or a salaried plus commission that was based on all the production for the shop that day?
Productivity is a fine line of quality vs quantity.
i would rather give up half my hourly rate and finish a job properly on a job thats kicking my ass, then to finish a job that took me longer to finish through something unforseen for free.. i dont like working for free, especially if something happened that was out of my control.. i am an honest person and would gladly speak to the customer and explain why it took longer and costs a little more.. and if im the customer, i would pay extra if the tech came out for a minute and explain what happened.. in either case its called personal accountability..
Not Sure how VW's warranty times are, but at Jag and LR they have gotten out of hand, and on more then one occasion I have challenged the people who come up with the time to do it as fast as they say it can be done for my months worth of pay. They wont because they can't, because flat rate a least with them is the average low time that people submit through warranty. So you work hard to get the job done faster and they will in turn lower the times for everyone to save money.
Flat rate makes a tech chose between do the job right and doing it fast, and fast is what keeps the lights on at your house. Also the better you are at a dealer, all the ones I have worked at, the worse the jobs you get, because politics in a dealer are important, if your not on good terms with the person who hands the work out your screwed. If you want to make money you have to look dumb enough not to get bagged with shit work but smart enough to stay.
Flat rate is a why for a company to save money on both ends, the main company say VW can pay less and state that you aren't working hard enough or as LR told us, you aren't supposed to make money on Warranty work. Also for the dealer to save money as if it's a slow day and not cars come in they don't have to pay you anything, no a penny. So nice to see people like you happy that tech's can get paid 20 hours for going to work for 80 hours.
Flat rate is a joke and does nothing but hurt Techs
I like these your videos, probably because you show different point of views and understand and even go as far as to explain your point of view or why someone might have an opposing point of view. I'm in sales so understanding the customers point of view is always my top priority. Just a quick question about flat rate. Is the time on a repair always the same across difference models? You work on VWs so would a changing a valve cover gasket be the same on say 70 bug be the same on say a 2016 touareg? Are disk brakes the same flat rate as drum brakes? Heck I have some cars that are even a pain in the arse to change no matter how many times I have done while it because of where the filter is located, while others I can do in my sleep.
I work for Mazda, cabin filters are a maintenance item that should be done on a regular basis. For the most part they are simple and easy to change out and flat rate pays almost nothing for it. The cabin air filter on Mazda 3s from it's introduction til aprox 2009 IS A FUCKING PAIN IN THE FUCKING DICK. The first time I had to do one was when I was new to the brand, saw it as previously recommended. It was sold and it took me 90 minutes ( basically the passenger side dash has to come apart the a fuse panel has to be removed, a bracket unbolted, and the 2 piece filter element has to be removed and replaced in an exact way, not to mention you have to clear codes set by removing the previously mentioned fuse panel. All that pays like 0.10 and at best this job takes 30-45 minutes. As a result no tech will recommend or be willing to perform this service item. And the dealership won't change the time and service writers won't make customers pay what it actually costs.
This kind of issue is an inherent problem with the "flat rate" system.
I hate flag hours (AKA flat rate). Not only are the book times vastly conflicting at times, as HM mentioned, but the shop still expects you to do things around the place for free, or how any of the decent paying jobs are given to techs with seniority, while new hires get stuck with changing wiper blades... Or if there aren't any customers, you don't get jack, but they still want you to take out the trash or something
Or how to make ends meet, some mechs/techs will find any little thing to try and get money, which ends up making customers think "Every time I go in, they find 10 things they say I need"
EvilJ069 I don't feel bad at all about the seniority thing. I had to "pay my dues" now it's time for me to reap the benefits and for someone to get the short end of the stick. It's called respect and many kids don't have that anymore. I guess we were brought up different
KMike68Camaro Respect has little to do with it, if someone has the same training and can do the job just as well, why should either of them "get the short end of the stick"? Run it as either who's available to do it by who got the last decent paying job, then there's also the boss's buddy/suck up
EvilJ069 it's called paying your dues. Why should a 60 year old man that's been doing a job since he was 20 has a house raised 4 kids has to do grunt work while some 20 year old kid who has zero responsibilities outside in the real world (aka when he gets off of work) get the easy job? It's called respecting your shop elders. But I know you're going to say something dumb like "well if he can't do the job blah,blah,blah I'm a little pussy bitch blah,blah,blah" It's not about can he do the job or not it's called seniority respect. I'm sure the 60 year old had to do the same thing when he was 20 WITHOUT BITCHING!!! Look I see it everyday at my job I work union road reconstruction these kids and yes I'm a kid at work on their phone texting when they should be working and the old man busting his ass then the Super comes over and the kid gets yelled at and the Super says why is the old man working while the young kid is doing nothing but playing with himself? As a man but that's just me I wouldn't want some old guy busting his ass while I'm young,healthy and full of energy sitting with my thumb up my ass. Not only that it's embarrassing. The easy work should go to the older workers especially in a physically demanding job like a mechanic or a construction worker. Now if it were an easy job like McDonalds fine but we aren't talking about that now are we. Then when you get 60 you can get the easier jobs but you can't have the easy job when you're 20 and when you're 60 the world doesn't work like that. That 60 year old has forgotten more than you know trust me on that one......but like I said we were just raised different I was raised to respect my elders and you weren't that doesn't make you a bar person well it kinda does actually
I haven't commented on a youtube video in a while, but I wanted to let KMike68Camaro know that he seems like an absolute twat that really needs to check his sense of entitlement.
One problem I've had with book time is when someone has worked on the car before you get it and crossthreaded bolts or broke some off or didn't do something halfway right and that has to be fixed for me to be able to do the repair properly so it doesn't look like I'm a hack I've had a couple foremans look at it and fix my time so I get paid to fix it and some that don't care but either way the car will be fixed right because I take pride in my work and it won't leave for someone later say well he was a hack
If flat rates dont have regional adjustments then they are unfair to tech and customers. Independently owned shops advertised flat charge specials always have regional adjustments and builtin charges for parts that aren't usually needed in other parts of the country.
great videos man.
we need a mechanic's union especially in MA
+MrBawston I have mixed feelings about unions, they can do good, but I have seen not so great things too.
I get payed by the hour plus commission and I can bring home some real good money but at the same time if it's slow I bring home less but I works good for me
I dont think you really touched on what im going through at my dealership. Beating the times is usually not a problem if you work hard and smart but if you arent getting the work its out of your hands. My work likes to the pack the shop with techs I guess to make sure all the work is going to get done but there just isnt enough work to go around. And then you have the competition, anger and jealously. We are always fighting iver the two laptops or the one inspection bay or alignment rack. Its fucking infuriating and i think most my coworkers feel the same. This to me is short sighted on the companies part yet i still like what i do, so its really a tough pill to swallow not consistently getting paid well for the work we do and what we have to put up with
You are a PROFESSIONAL mechanic! Why aren't you changing your oil yourself?
Was this story way back when before you went to school?
+jawojnicki I do. I hate doing it. But I do. Lol
I think flat rate definitely makes you a more productive tech, but it does promote cheating. Hourly/Guarantee gives you time to be thorough, but also promotes laziness. I think the dealership/owner of the shop should offer incentives for FRFT & Up sells. I also think on up sells the technician might should show the customer what they’ve found wrong. That would help with accountability & comebacks.
Yes!!! A mix of incentives and base pay is the winning strategy I think
HumbleMechanic I think if there’s definitely work to be done and it’s proven that ur constantly riding ur guarantee, that you should be warned if not have your taken away. (No sense in paying for nothing)
I live in ohio and all the rust and working on cars is a pain in the ass
+Andrew Matheney i can only imagine. I feel for you guys in the Rust part of the country
You forgot skipping lunches
I loved flat rate for easy jobs, say brakes, exhaust, Oil, tires and alignments, but when It came to engine work, but hourly wins for things like engine work, ect. I would never trust a flat rate tech for things like timing and head gasket, Just personal experience
Yeah doing engines is usually a break even at best thing.
I think of you're a good tech the pay works itself out. I make a great living on flat rate.
do you write down all of your labor op times or do the advisors handle that for you? I
Either I do it, or I have the warranty clerk do it. I don't want the advisor doing it.
I work at a small dealership, so I guess I'm service advisor/ warranty administrator/ clerk. Pretty much all the hats. I deal with any warranty VW or otherwise. I always thought those guys would know better what times to use but I have gotten pretty good at knowing what pays and what doesn't.
My techs get paid percentage only! But I offer high percentage and warn them if they do something fishy I'll will reimburse the customer whatever the CUSTOMER feels right out of the techs paycheck! Won service of the year 2016! So it works. Techs rack up 6k and a free car.
When you pay well, techs are afraid to lose their job... They sometimes don't appreciate it, and when they get kicked by the customer (and deserve it too), I hit hard. I'm also one of the techs (helps you monitor whats going on) and I pride myself with a best service I can provide. None of the customers know I'm the owner but they still ask for me. So I told the techs, if customers start asking for them I'll bonus nicely. Still doesn't work. Laziness is too common among the youngsters. I can count two or three techs who actually got better than I am. But they were also smart enough to open their own later, So now in a way, we are business partners.
Roman Ash I like your strategy for paying employees. One question though? Do you even track time for their work? Because they can do a great job and the customer will be satisfied because everything was done correctly BUT your employee took 2 hours to finish a 1 hour type job, leaving you on the short end of the stick.
I pay percentage right? they can as much time as they want...
wouldnt you be losing money? the more they can get done a day, the more income for you. If they dont care about the time and neither do you then they might just be going slower than average.
I know this video is pretty old but with flat rate pay if a job is completed by 2 techs do they both get the flat rate pay or is it split or did one tech basically work for free? In general how does flate rate pay a two person job.
+Randizzle Forshizzle typically we would split the total time. So it it pays 8, each get 4.
Flat rate in my opinion is an outdated system based on the old grease monkey analogy of guys just swapping parts and changing fluids all day on jobs like brakes, oil changes, suspension, steering etc. Its only good for light work and maintenance. Diagnosing electrical systems, computers, networking, and driveability problems correctly without guessing takes time and flat rate is always a fight against time. Warranty times have been progressively getting worse and it seems like retail is disappearing. I think dealers have a much better chance at developing knowledgeable technicians for the future who actually understand the complex vehicles they are working on today if they get rid of flat rate all together. Straight time encourages technicians to be more thorough and perform a 100% definitive diagnoses and quality repairs.
Do you think lube techs should get flat rate?
Also an incentive to find problems not there. For those not very ethical, which is common.
Flat rate is BS! You are at the mercy of factors not under your control, Such as lousey owner.
In this business and many others, we are always that way.
Flat rate is a joke, get into some type of hourly diesel shop.
Straight time is a joke. The game becomes how long can you stretch the job out so you don't have to do more work. No thanks.