I DO NOT think that flat rate is the BEST pay structure. But I found ways to be successful, and I am sharing that with you. There are parts of the pay structure that are broken and need to change. BUT we can either sit back and whine and wait for it to change, change it by moving to a new job, OR do both and make some money while doing the world catches up.
The Yota Tech There are ways to beat the system even today. if you have a passion for working on cars, leaving the industry is not the best way to beat flat rate. That’s just giving up. You can move to another shop that offers an hourly position if you hate flat rate so much. Or you can dig deep and spend the money on tools and take advice from others to be efficient in your work.
I have been back to the dealer for so many times for the same jobs over and over again that I eventually given up on them entirely and went to school and learn to fix the car myself. I am surprised how easy those jobs actually were once you know what you are doing, and it never had a come back for the fixes that I have done, I mean irritatingly never (considering I did most of them in the backyard without a roof on top of the car, have to close the hood when weather goes bad) . I think it really is the attitude that makes the hardest part of this kind of job. Settle yourself and follow the rules listed by the VW to the letter (at least sentences), I don’t know why it’s called “flat rate”, customers are paying a premium instead of flat rate, maybe to the technician since their jobs are usually pretty mediocre. I hope that I will never have to go back to the dealers again, but if I have to I will put my ASE credentials in my car upfront so perhaps they can pay a little bit more attention when working.
I went from a lube tech to used car tech to a line tech in about two years. I was learning how to work multiple vehicles as a lube tech(and continued that habit at every level). The service manager's response to this was to task me with line work while I was still a lube tech. This guy rode my ass on a regular basis, I learned how to multitask like a master. When I was moved to a used car tech I had 2 bays and access to space outside, I had between 4-6 vehicles in and around my area on a regular basis. The number increased as a line tech. When the new manager came in, he began starving me out. I ended up leaving. Despite all of my hard work it wasn't enough for this guy. The manager used the flat rate system against me. Flat rate is crap, I won't do it again. Heavy all the way!
Mechanics should be getting 50-50 commission like they did up until the late 1970's. Good mechanics deserve 40 to 50 bucks an hour. The problem is that most mechanics are not business men. They still have the blacksmith mentality and won't stick together and demand more.
And the most important is proper diagnosis of everything don't find one thing and turn the ticket in you have an hour so check everything before you turn the ticket in
I'm one of those that absolutely HATES flat rate. I believe it's singlehandedly responsible for why the general public thinks we're all crooks. It turns otherwise good technicians into hacks that cut corners out of necessity just to make a paycheck, and increases the amount of unnecessary things being sold to a customer. And yea, you're right, I hated it, not because I wasn't making money, but because I felt dishonest about it. I believe in quality over quantity, oh, and for the record FUCK warranty work. I did what you suggested, I moved to a private government fleet and I haven't looked back. Now I get paid by the hour, if I want more money, I simply just work overtime, but I can 100% guarantee my paycheck will be at least 40 hours, week after week. I will never go back to flat rate.
Alessandro Pruscino I'm 15 but I diy plenty of stuff and I just started a tech program because this is what I enjoy. Either way Charles's videos are always good information and entertaining.
Actually if you value your own time, even if you DIY this advice remains highly applicable because you're still saving time, meaning your project car can go further in the same amount of time (so, more personal satisfaction) or you can do something else once your repair or service is done with all that time u saved.
Lol, on my documentation on work orders I'd get accused of writing novels, but i, like you, wanted EVERYTHING documented. That way, if there was a issue later, I had my proof of what I did on paper.
dave1135 I'll always be accused of manuals or "novels" but I don't care. I love what my current manager said about it. Yeah, but these are the notes you need if you ever go to court. His assistant wants me to just write the required parts. I always write how I know it's bad or why I recommend replacing it. I recently took a "get a job" class and they said stories sell facts. She doesn't want the story? I'm not there when she's on the phone, but I suspect she doesn't sell as many facts, aka parts, repairs, and service. Another gentleman wants to know the parts but tells his own story. It may not be my story, but it sells the parts, services, and repairs. I heard him a couple times.
Oh man, I was exactly the same way. I was excessively thorough. I emphasized quality over quantity, and well, I lasted about a year. After new service manager came in, he wanted quantity over quality.
Great Video Charles!! I preach efficiency!! Another point to mention in addition to smoking is running off to the store for those energy drinks or drinks in general, get a cheap mini fridge and stock it with water etc. Also coffee bring a thermos so you are not running to the coffee maker
I never worked flat rate but for the right person from what I hear from my other tech friends that you can make a good living working flat rate.So my hat off for them guys and gals working flat rate.Great video Charles so keep them coming.PEACE
How to beat flat rate. Work on more than one car at a time. Step 1. Pull a car in and write it up for service, give it to the sales advisers to sell to customer. Step 2. While he's selling the job, pull in another car write it up and repeat. Step 3. Start fixing the first car, then when waiting on parts start fixing the second car. Step 4. Bounce back and forth car to car when u have down time on them. U end up finishing more than one car at a time. The key is definitely organization and working at the pace that works for u.
4 additional ways to beat flat rate: 1. Be in a high volume "independent" shop. 2. If in a dealership don't work on brands with substantial powertrain warranties. (Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen...etc) 3. Be friendly with service writers and dispatchers. You don't have to kiss their ass and I know its hard but DON'T YELL AT THEM. This is how you will get the gravy jobs during slow times. 4. Take as many electrical and drivability jobs as possible. You'll lose your ass in the beginning but these are the jobs that help you grow as a tech so you can demand more income and work in the long run.
HumbleMechanic I think that's a great idea. Maybe have a service advisor do the video with you, get his/her perspective on things. I think it would help a lot of young techs on how to deal with them.
You need to be nice to the parts dept personnel, too! They can make or break you almost as much as a service writer can, and IMO the "parts guys" tend remain employed longer than the service writers do. At least that is what happened during the few years I was a dealer technician before I opened my own repair shop.
I was surprised when I found out the dealer pay structure there. Mechanics are in a field that always run into problems. The deeper you dig into a car the more problems you find.
Not only dealers, in many states independent repair shops can also have flat rate pay structure under their labor laws. The state of Illinois (where I live) is one exception, only new motor vehicle selling "dealers" (including farm implements) are allowed to remunerate repair technicians via flat rate or "piece rate" (the term for assembly line jobs here per Labor laws). As far as what I call "onion jobs" where the deeper you dig, the more problems you find; the shop manager or service advisor has to screen jobs like that before even agreeing to take the job in.
I think flat rate is great for experienced mechanics and very bad for the poor and inexperienced mechanics. Your video is excellent advice. Knowing the vehicle is key. For example they gave you 3 hours to change a water pump on a 6 cylinder pacer, but taking an extra step, not listed in the manual, i.e. removing the radiator actually eased access to the point that you could finish the Job in only 2 hours. I meant undoing 4 more bolts and removing one more coolant hose, but the added room made a water pump R&R job go faster and easier.
Great advice! I think up to 50% of my time is looking for tools and/or parts. Organization is key. Downtime is a great time to organize and generally sharpen the axe.
J. Hunto's Garage whenever I hurry and let my tools pile up on my service cart, it slows me down. Keeping my socket organizer and putting the sockets back as I go is faster than wondering what extension a socket is sitting on. Sometimes making a mental note that this tool is now here as I'm about to get back to it works, but more than one and I start grabbing the wrong tool.
Don't forget running back to the service writer when you find 3 cars parked in from of the one your trying to work on, and my all time favorite... Paperwork. A code from book "A", a code from book "B", a semi thesis of a written detailed explanation of every little detail of the repair (with the exception if getting parts, getting the car, doing the paperwork, and free diagnosis. If I had my choice of going back to working for a dealership, or collecting empty cans for a living?? I go collect cans.
I was a flat rate technician for 10 years Suzuki Master tech until they went bankrupt then a shirt stint at GM and finally a Subaru Master tech. The only way to make money at flat rate is know the cars Subaru short blocks for oil consumption pay 11 hours, had them down to 7.5 hours, steering racks on Legacy's paid 6 hours to drop the subframe, a couple junk wrenches and a torch I could do it in 2 hours without dropping the subframe. Upsell gravy work like flushes, I know everyone bitches about not being necessary, all fluids degrade, and need replacing. Now I never tried to upsell a flush I didn't feel actually needed done, most dealers near me use those drip cards to show the actual condition of the fluid. I wouldn't recommend this as a profession I got out after all the airbag recalls started hitting. The pay is way low for everything you have to know, thousands of your own money in tools. If you fix 200 hundred cars right but have one comeback you're the biggest asshole that ever existed. Did a shortblock, far from my first one came back a couple days later for a TGV code, found I didn't have the plug fully locked in, took me about 10 minutes to fix and the customer was very understanding, got wrote up and told I couldn't do another shortblock for a month, mind you I always had very few comebacks.
I am OCD when working on my car I don't think I could work at a shop or even be on flat rate if I did haha. I have much respect for anyone that does work on this structure 4 sure.
jcarey1010 I am too. For me to become faster at cars I had to be more confident about my knowledge I already had. Test what I need to to diagnose a problem, but never assume the answer. I like to write notes where I ask a bit ahead of where I'm at on the diagnostic, which I need to answer. If I thought ahead the right questions, all I have to do is answer those questions and I'll know what's wrong with the car. Having an organized method, written down on the spot, holds me accountable and takes emotion out of it. Science isn't emotional. Emotion can lead to scientific tests, but never answer the questions emotionally.
I recently started as a lube tech,my first job in a shop setting. My first full week with my own bay I did 39.5 hours. I will only go out to smoke when there are no cars up front to work on. Right now we have a ton of downtime unfortunately as we are right smack dab in the middle of a ton of road construction. It's definitely hurting our business. I've found that a good thing for efficiency and accuracy is to create a process that works for you and stick to it. I like the flat rate system from the standpoint that it rewards those who really bust ass vs making the same paycheck as the guy facetiming his wife doing nothing all frikin day.
Awesome video, totally agree with you on how flat rate can be great or terrible depending on the situation. When I was a Dodge/jeep/ram tech I loved it I always found a way to book at least 40 even on slow weeks. Now I'm at Maserati/Alfa/Fiat and I can see the system failing there is not enough of these cars on the road and to keep all the techs happy sometimes there is simply no work. I'm lucky enough to also be the main used car tech but some of the guys really have to struggle for hours!
Even as a tire tech at the local Kal Tire, I never worked flat rate; the official title was "Sales and Service Hourly". However, in the years since working as said tire tech, I have taken many of the principles you've mentioned, Charles, and applied them to jobs many and varied outside the flat rate system; even if it hasn't caused my income to increase (much), it has left me in the good books with many a company when I've been forced to leave for some reason or another. These principles you're teaching here, HumbleMechanic? They're awesome, and they're universal. Certainly, they make the most bang within a flat rate system, but they can leave an impact in other systems as well; I'm living proof. :)
I used to work as a building maintenance technician, and much of this sounds familiar. It's a different profession, but the basic concepts are the same. I also stacked jobs, figured out "hacks" to finish jobs faster, etc. Not only does it streamline your work flow, but it also reduces the amount of frustration.
You hit the nail right on the head. The problem people have with flat rate is , if you work in a general shop these guys don't want to read manuals on their days off or look up how Vehicles work and get knowledge on every kind of vehicle. They want to just make money that's it no one wants to learn anything anymore. You don't know how many times a week I'm working on a BMW and another mechanic comes by and says I hate those things they suck
I always used to leave the oil draining when I went off the parts department to get the filter, etc., and do things like check the operation of wipers & washers, horn, make sure there was no lateral play in the steering wheel, get someone to check the brake lights, and so on, when taking the car from its parking spot to the ramp. Another advantage of keeping good notes is to cover your ass to help prove that you've done something. And when it came to warranty, when I was in the main dealer we used to say that the pen was mightier than the spanner. Properly documenting your diagnosis and *everything* you remove and install is a pain in the backside, but so important in getting your time.
Your advice is amazing. I just wish we had the business to use them. That's the biggest downside to flat rate, if there's no work, you can't turn hours. But you're not allowed to go home or anything like that, "cause we need you to stick around as a convenience to customers." I completely understand that, and I agree with it. But, when I'm not getting paid to stand around, "in case a customer comes in", then fuck it. Especially when the majority of the cars we see are warranty. So we're basically getting paid even less when there's finally work to do.
I work at an independent shop, and we take really extensive, big jobs (engine swaps, head gaskets, transmission swaps, timing chains and belts, etc) but I'm lucky that the shop owner bus the best up to date scanners and service info, and my foreman alots me plenty of time to study the job before I do it. world out lovely.
Great tip on having all your common tools on top. I keep all my sockets and bits up top, but i never considered ONLY keeping my most common tools up top. I’m gonna try that and put some of my less common tools elsewhere.
Started working at a local Honda dealership which they pay me hourly because I am their entry level Express Tech guy. The key to my success in getting cars in and out is the lift only goes up once and then down once. As I drain the oil I measure tread depth, check tire pressure and get the oil filter, or trans fluid and washers, whatever I need. As I walk back from the parts counter, I start unwrapping the filter and get everything ready to go, by the time I am at my box I toss the wrapper, throw the R.O. on my box and tighten everything up and make sure it is tight. If it is written on the R.O. that tires are to be rotated, by the time I have checked tires and pressure I can determine whether I need to investigate a tire for a leak or if the tires actually need rotated at all. If they need rotated I bring the lift down to a workable height and take lug nuts off, rotate them, put the lug nits on by hand then impact them back on. Usually after this step I take my impact off the hose, take the socket off the impact, put the impact down, and then attach my socket to my torque wrench, lower the car down all the way, torque all the wheels, and fill the engine with oil. Simple and easy, I can get a Oil change and tire rotation done in 15 minutes.
i remember the honda dealer i was at dropped an LOF from 5tenths to 3tenths, and PDI from1hr &half to 8tenths. we start to get better.....the dealer finds new way to fuck us
A thought whilst watching was a grreat tool to help us Learn/Read/Write/Speak/Find Problems is Grammar/Knowledge/Data/Info=Who/What/Where/When=Logic/Understanding/Reason=Why=Rhetoric/Wisdom/Tell/Teach=How......great vids thanks.
I work in the diesel field as a tech at an International truck dealership. I'm so thankful we are not flat rate because warranty times are unreasonable. Especially when you take into account every truck is built to the job it will be doing so they are all set up differently even if they are the same model and year. Plus we get to soak up as much OT as we want.
This is awesome! Everything you touch on is key to winning the flat rate game! So many times I had to beat this into apprentice heads. Unfortunately BMW warranty system became very particular about the time spent on each job like brake fluid changes and oil changes. There were many times I was clocking times on repairs while I was actually pulling in the next car just to get the “happy” amount of time on the ticket so it didn’t get kicked back.
Man, I don't work on cars anymore, but I do work on garbage trucks. I felt like you were taking directly to me when you brought up how aggravating it is to figure out how a system works in order to fix it lol. Great vid. Keep it up!!
Another excellent video 👍👍👍. Summer of 2018 I finally concluded the injectors on my LB7 were not responding to every chemical on this end of the Galaxy and it was time to getter’ done. I’m a shade tree guy and had spent hours on the interwebs and UA-cam researching the challenge, so I ordered all my parts and special tools, took a deep breath and dug in.Did I mention the truck was a CA ‘03 with EGR? Yep, special fun getting around that cooler on the passenger side. 😰 Next thing I did, just as you suggested, was whip out a 4X6 notebook and write down every step I took. 20 greasy pages later (😱) and many more hours than the 17 in the “book”, I pumped the primer as my wife cranked the beast, and it fired on the third try and has been running excellent. As you know, R&R at the dealer is 5 large, and valuing my retired hours at $0, the job came in at around $2200. At $0.50/hour, it came in at twice that. I’ll let you do the math 😀. The notes were invaluable and I used a red pen to check off each step going backward and only ended up with a few leftover fasteners that didn’t look too important anyway and one harness bracket that continues to baffle me. As a bonus, I found a kinked line off the vacuum pump that was throwing an EGR code. One thing I would add to your commentary. While the interwebs were full of photos, I wish I had made photos of some of the intricate connectors and plumbing and spent more time than I needed sorting the rats nest atop the fuel filter where the EGR controls reside. Sheesh. My additional suggestion is to use that cell phone camera to make pictures of any areas that may confuse things later (did I miss that in your fine video?). Finally, for shade tree guys like me, I highly recommend joining a Forum. Without guidance, support and encouragement from the fine folks on Duramax Forum, I might still have that truck sticking out of my garage. Great advice, homey, and I’ll look forward to your next video. 👍👍👍👍
Great tip on keeping notes on repairs!! I can’t even tell you how much time I’ve wasted trying to recall every test step I performed during a repair or how many times someone else in the shop has asked me about a repair I did a few months ago and I couldn’t recall what the fix was. I’ll definitely be giving that a shot!
Good vid Charles! I would like to add..... If all your lifts are taken with a disassembled vehicle and cannot be dished out the shop. Find somewhere to jack up the vehicle and use jacks/jack stands to keep working. Don't stop working. Do whatever is necessary to keep working. Also..... Try to book work for the next day or so also if you are that busy and have a good writer.
I definitely prefer flat rate over hourly. Beating the labor time is so satisfying and I definitely make more money than if I was hourly. However, it does suck when you get stuck on some long diag or warranty. I feel like an hourly plus commission system would be the sweet spot. And warranty pay should be illegal.
Except for the dealer only concerns, like training and leasing issues, all of you points hold true for myself as a home mechanic. Staying organized can be a challenge for some of us.
Everyone laughs at me for constantly putting my tools away. Yes I often put them away and need them again later. On the other hand, They are always where they are supposed to be, unless in use.
In regards to taking notes. I know almost everyone has a smart phone these days. What I usually do is have my google assistant take verbal notes as I'm working. Simple as "hey google, start taking notes". And it begins recording your voice and automatically writing notes in Google keep. That way you can have a Bluetooth headset in your ear, and with googles powerful voice recognition software, it works even in noisy shop environments. It saves a tonne of time going over and putting it all on paper. Yeah your basically talking to yourself all day long(which some ppl might find weird). But you talk to yourself when you are trying to troubleshoot anyways so you may as well make it count.
"Fixing the car right the 1st time!" couldn't agree more. I feel so many people forget about the one individual that funds the whole operation "The Customer". Working as a automotive mechanic basically taught me the lessons of owning a business, cost of time, tools, overhead, investments (training), effective communication, professionalism, and maintaining customer satisfaction. I must say, the skills I've learned not just those of wrenching and diagnosing cars, come out in bright light in front of me when I deal with people in different industries, and that is Customer Service. Unfortunately, I feel flat-rate can make Customer Service muddy when it comes to racking up the hours....so, pros and cons...
U just gotta get experience, the more experience u got, the more ways u can do the job faster and more efficiently. Get that done, more money. Personally, i love working in the field bc im never bored. Im constantly learning new things.
I have never been on flat rate and i am paid hourly as a heavy equipment tech but there are downsides to hourly as well one being that someone could be making more money than you but doing half the work and milking every job, i see a lot of guys milking the clock which gets frustrating when your boss knows they are milking the clock and therefore you get more work stacked up on you in your bay because they know youll actually get it done in a timely fashion.
Went to school to be a mechanic and worked in a shop for about two weeks. I said screw that and ended up being an electrical engineer. Much better career choice.
I see a lot of pissed off mechanics, and I understand your frustrations, but please also look at it from the customer side. For us, flat-rate = everything gets torqued with an impact gun, broken connectors tabs, missing harness clips, fluids everywhere, damaged to unrelated components from "trying" to skip steps 5-12, improperly reinstalled or stretched harnesses leading to wires breakage, and the worse... having the customer pay for parts cannon diagnostic system ammunition... I've had to deal with all of this stuff... That is why I refuse to let anyone touch my car anymore, even during warranty. Luckly Daimler's workshop manuals and Star Diagnostic System is dumbed down enough to where your average dealership "Bubba" mechanic can follow it and accurately diagnose a complex system fault, which is tremendous help for us DIY'ers. Sadly, there are very few Charles' and Eric O.'s in the world, and a whole bunch of pissed-off Bubba's..
It's all a mixed bag to me. From a customer point(a POV I always try to consider) it's good on the one hand because you don't have to pay more because the tech that gets your car is slow. On the other hand it can encourage shortcuts that don't always end in the same repair. I also think you'd run the risk of those short cuts even with out flat rate. I would love to see a pay plan that is both a guarantee and production based pay. Enough to make a fair living, but still be motivated for more.
I am not a tech but a customer i love when i am told the shop is flat rate and the job took longer then it should but i still got charged for the extra time , that was the last time i ever used the place .
As a customer i like hearing how it works at dealership / garage. I love japanese way of pointing on things when done, I recom it along with what has been said on 11:24
Hi Charles, I’m a technician at Bmw in the uk and we get a salary as well as a flat rate system. We get a salary depending upon our technician status e.g service tech, diagnostic tech, senior tech and master tech. We also get a target of hours to “sell” depending on our status then any hours sold above your target is paid at an hourly rate once again varying on our status.
After dealing with the flat rate system for 32 years I finally beat it. I quit being a mechanic and got a good job. More benefits and paid time off. AND I get paid over time. That's the best way to beat flat rate and not get beaten by it. Anyone want to buy some tools?
I've worked at dealerships and independent shops. Both are good to gain different types of experience. I'm on my own now. I charge flat rate for straight forward work but get paid for what I know on diagnosis and drivability.
I 100% agree with this, even though I'm only an hourly lube tech. When I get to work every morning, I grab each tool that I know that I'm going to use all day and it goes into the drain caddy or on my bench. This is also where they will stay until the end of the day when I go home. I try explaining this to other co-workers and why putting a tool they're going to be using frequently is just a waste of time.
Working flat rate breaks you down both mentally and physically. I regularly flag mid 50’s to 90 hours a week, but I break my ass doing it, and I’m paying for it now. As you get older, it’s all going to catch up with you. The best advice a good tech can give you is either learn as much as you can as fast as you can, and go open your own shop; or get out while you can. At the end of the day, it’s only about the money.
Great video, Charles! The only time I've ever worked in a service shop as a tech was when I was out of high school and was an apprentice, but working now as a wheel repair tech in what's more or less a body/machine shop there's a lot of things in here that definitely overlap. Some things that I live by: -never go anywhere empty handed -change tools as few times as possible -always look for ways to improve your task time, and never be satisfied. Cheers!
Been to 3 different shops, one hourly and two flat rate shops. The flat rate shops in my assessment seem to really know what they’re doing, and actually do the job right! Sure the clock can cause an oversight, but they generally do flat rate because it’s not their first rodeo!
Hej Charles, totally love your attitude. Will adapt some of your insights to our company's guidelines (including tipps mentioned in some other of you videos). You work really hard and don't laze around. That's our spirit too. Again: You are really top!
Charles, Got out of the crappy shop in washington now in oregon.. got a job right away at a shop 15 minutes from my house. SPCIALIZES in RESTORING 60s BRONCOS! (as well as a bit of everything) SO EXCITED!!!! Thanks for the motivation to keep kicking ass and turning wrenches to make the wold a better place :) You the man Charles! Relevant comment: I love being very organized and speedy but ready to slow down stop being a line/alignment tech and RESTORE CARS!!!! :)
To Dave Pierce I agree with you after working in a dealership for 32yrs. Got myself a gov job repairing fleet. Yearly pay increases, benefits, and time off. Almost taught automotive than realized I could not convince others to go into the field with a good concise. To the youtube video want he said is only common sense but money making maintenance has all but disappeared
Diags: get a Hayes manuel. Its usually right. Even stuff people have a hard time ts. Bent spindle destroys wheel bearing repeatedly. Toyota (Corolla 2012) dealer couldn't figure it out. I had a manuel for a 1999 Malibu and it did say that. They all work the same more or less.
I am here to report I kicked ass this pay period & clocked 227.3 hours in two weeks.. I am a 32yr old (almost Honda Master technician ) with 10 years experience. Tips for new techs: Roll cart organization. Take on as much work as possible. Stop standing around if there is no work, take online training.. you most likely get paid per “class” or “test” Come in early & stay late. Do a good inspection in order to upsell good jobs.
I'm neither pro or con on smoking, but you're remark about smoking breaks applies to every profession. During my career, I would walk out to go get in my car to go make sales calls and see commission paid co-workers taking frequent smoke breaks sitting on the benches outside of our offices and literally wonder how they got anything done. I'm sure they did get things done, I'm just not sure if I could be a smoker taking many breaks and getting things done. So I guess what I'm saying is... well said!
Just wanted to touch upon the part where you spoke about taking your time to figure out what's wrong instead of rushing to get a car out the door. I couldn't agree with you more. Last year I took my car to the BMW of Freeport dealership to check out my wife's Mini Cooper which wasn't running correctly. They tried to tell me that because I had aftermarket spark plugs which were supplied by the dealership I will have to get a new engine which would cost in excess of $10,000. I told them they were full of s***because I never changed the spark plugs and they are still the OEM original spark plugs to the car. I then had to take off of work in order to diagnose the car on my own. I found that although the spark plugs did need to be changed it was not the spark plugs that was making the car run shity in fact it was the mass airflow sensor that needed to be changed. Once I changed it out everything ran beautiful as if I bought a brand new car.
I wouldn’t want it any other way. I make way more on flat rate than I would hourly. I’ve worked at dealerships and independent. 6 figures is possible at both!
Great video, makes me want to get out of the engine machining business cause it ain’t paying the bills haha or atleast find a shop that will pay me fairly.
This video is a good reminder to think ahead and do things with your head... on the other hand I do some naughty things to get the job done faster like use a g-clamp on the hoist button so I can whip the wheels on while the car is going down. I know I wouldn't get away with that in a dealership haha Edit: on another note I smoked in school but when I started working for my dad I noticed I would get angry very quickly when the job wasn't going easy and have to stop to smoke. Now that I don't smoke I don't get such a hot head when the job sucks and I don't have that excuse to take a brake it makes my job and life in general a lot easier.
A MEN on the smoking. seen so much time wasted on smoking. also seen alot of wasted time with people over using power tools. for example i worked in the rust belt for a long time and watched people hit bolts with an impact breaking them off then have to extract, when i would grab some hand tools and good penetrant and get the job done before the other guy even got the bolt extracted. and yes i did use torches when necessary as well.
Great topic Charles! New to your channel, but I started to glaze over on this specific video despite your info and enthusiasm. Maybe in future vids, break it up a bit more to avoid us falling asleep bro! But your arguments are very well thought out, especially efficiency!
@@HumbleMechanic Ah, you are a good sport, and a great addition to the community! I have adopted a lot of your recommendations for sure. Flat rate is really hard to adhere to in the modern age of electronic controlled autos. I loose money often on flat rate. Diagnostics are straight time, but brakes and suspensions are flat rate. This week I rebuilt a Volvo version of the GM 4T65e... Immediately after start up, a Turbo boost code shows up. This is a twin turbo or T6 engine. We checked everything out that could have been affected by re and re trans, but to no avail. Neither us, the dealer, the specialists, IPD USA, nor FCP Euro can figure either. All I can do is eat the time while trying everything I know to fix, even expensive parts to remedy. So, no, I’m not a fan of flat rate! That use to work on simpler cars.
I work as an aerospace machinist and there used to be more piecemeal (what we call flat rate) jobs which only encouraged guys to run machines at ridiculous feed rates that could potentially damage the mills or even the worker. Luckily, a lot of the industry unionized and through worker power were able to get a fair hourly wage like any other skilled factory worker. Don't get exploited! Organize!
I had an issue a while ago which is true bout the knowledge aspect, i had purchased a non modular clutch for my vehicle, meaning everyone is put together as one assembly and parts are independently serviceable, i had a tech try to take apart the assembly in order to install them as if it were a non modular setup, needless to say, someone other than me purchased a new clutch that day
I personally hated the flat rate system. I did mostly front end/ brakes, etc at a major brand new car dealership. I had one serious curse compared to a few other techs. I could still hear a wide range of noises. High and low frequencies. So guess who got all the noise concerns on vehicles under warranty after another tech UTD'd it. So while I am chasing a noise with chassis ears all over a corner of a car for the" squeak over a bump when cold", during the summer days over 98 degrees with the wind from the southeast after a full moon, I tend to get a little bitter seeing the other guys doing the "gravy" The service dept warranty clerk was a freaking nightmare on paying anything M-time or A-time, due to some areas being high in warranty costs. My CSI scores declined due to the fact I got all the trouble cars, and I tried to fix them right and needless to say, pay did also.
I make so much more on flat rate. If u can run multiple bays DO IT. if ur writers take forever, get the car in, write it up and get it out so the new one can come in. I used to not start working on cars until after lunch cuz I would write up 4-6 cars in the morn. Get ur own brake and coolant vacuums, a laptop and mongoose for the scanner. Indeed stacking jobs is key, u can do diffs, t case, trans, drain coolant and oil and do brake flush at same time. Raise the car ONCE! I’m doing 80-100hrs a week at $33hr. Now go do that math
Damn son, send some gravy my way. My shop they send all the gravy to the other techs because they can't handle shit. Then they stick me with the scratch your brain out jobs while paying me half as everyone else because I'm new. :) So yeah my flat rate experience sucks so far. I've yet to have a week where I actually make what I work.
potatoe4221 man that sucks... u dealer or independent? This last pay period I did 273hrs, it was a 12 day period and I skipped lunch every day cuz I was so fucking busy w gravy.
I've never had to deal with the flat rate system but I know several techs who suffered with it. What I was told it was who you know or out the door you go. God forbid if you break a bolt..here in the San Francisco bay area, the fast pace, high cost of living causes a hostile work environment. Sad
The ability to be successful as a flat rate tech does somewhat depend on the work situation and the building you are in. But I stand behind the idea that if it REALLY does suck, then you should leave. I have also seen people complain it sucks, but the things they were not happy with point back to a lack of effort on their part.
first thing that came to mind was electrical troubleshooting and rusted/broken fasteners. What about servicing used parts to save the customer money? Or just replace all with new and let him pay??
I do well under flat rate now but it was a struggle and a half as an apprentice. Any licensed tech should be able to make hours assuming your shop is run efficiently but I truly believe apprentices need to be paid hourly. They need to learn how to perform repairs properly.
I like Flat Rate I used to Beat It 4 out of 5 Times Typically. It Encourages Learning Dane job on Sane Type of Vehicle With Each I became Faster at Completion Without Cutting Corners on Quality of My Work
Exactly. My philosophy is, if you're doing nothing, you're doing something wrong. I've seen a guy get a car on the lift and start doing his inspection first. Then he'll drain the oil, rotate the tires, and inflate the tires. Totally ass backwards. Drove me nuts.
I, a tech who currently goes through all of these things everyday and the only thing im finding an issue with is the documenting.. i agree all of it needs to documented but when i was trying to document my work, the amount of time it took to write everything down took way more time then i could ever make on most jobs. I had to stop writing because it caused me to be so behind and even sometimes knocked me out of my mind set trying to fix the problem.
Yes, the mechanics should be able to lease a car. Owning a 2016 VW with all the toys I sometimes wonder if they totally understand when I talk about the proximity sensors giving false alarms in rain, snow or next to pearl white SUVs in traffic if they haven’t experienced it themselves.
I was lucky I was in a shop with 9 bays and 3 guys. So the way I beat flat rate, was stacking jobs. I was able to jump between jobs while waiting for parts on one job or waiting for the brake lathe to finish turning rotors I was looking at the next job so by the time I would finish one that job I would have parts ready for the next
I DO NOT think that flat rate is the BEST pay structure. But I found ways to be successful, and I am sharing that with you. There are parts of the pay structure that are broken and need to change. BUT we can either sit back and whine and wait for it to change, change it by moving to a new job, OR do both and make some money while doing the world catches up.
HumbleMechanic, the best way to beat the system is to get out of the industry. The industry is changing.
HumbleMechanic so glad class 8 trucks shops are not flat rate (none dealer shops)
The Yota Tech There are ways to beat the system even today. if you have a passion for working on cars, leaving the industry is not the best way to beat flat rate. That’s just giving up. You can move to another shop that offers an hourly position if you hate flat rate so much. Or you can dig deep and spend the money on tools and take advice from others to be efficient in your work.
HumbleMechanic all mechanic go on strike
I have been back to the dealer for so many times for the same jobs over and over again that I eventually given up on them entirely and went to school and learn to fix the car myself. I am surprised how easy those jobs actually were once you know what you are doing, and it never had a come back for the fixes that I have done, I mean irritatingly never (considering I did most of them in the backyard without a roof on top of the car, have to close the hood when weather goes bad) . I think it really is the attitude that makes the hardest part of this kind of job. Settle yourself and follow the rules listed by the VW to the letter (at least sentences), I don’t know why it’s called “flat rate”, customers are paying a premium instead of flat rate, maybe to the technician since their jobs are usually pretty mediocre. I hope that I will never have to go back to the dealers again, but if I have to I will put my ASE credentials in my car upfront so perhaps they can pay a little bit more attention when working.
I went from a lube tech to used car tech to a line tech in about two years. I was learning how to work multiple vehicles as a lube tech(and continued that habit at every level). The service manager's response to this was to task me with line work while I was still a lube tech. This guy rode my ass on a regular basis, I learned how to multitask like a master. When I was moved to a used car tech I had 2 bays and access to space outside, I had between 4-6 vehicles in and around my area on a regular basis. The number increased as a line tech. When the new manager came in, he began starving me out. I ended up leaving. Despite all of my hard work it wasn't enough for this guy. The manager used the flat rate system against me. Flat rate is crap, I won't do it again. Heavy all the way!
Mechanics should be getting 50-50 commission like they did up until the late 1970's. Good mechanics deserve 40 to 50 bucks an hour. The problem is that most mechanics are not business men. They still have the blacksmith mentality and won't stick together and demand more.
This problem is happening in most trades. Something about gen x and younger is we do not stick together and demand fair pay.
@@feetfats1I feel like the younger generations are better, they aren't afraid to leave a job and feel no loyalty to a shitty employer
8:11 Doing the job correctly the first time never takes any extra minutes... that's simply how much time doing it right takes.
Jersey Tom Yes, good-quality workmanship takes the time it takes!
And the most important is proper diagnosis of everything don't find one thing and turn the ticket in you have an hour so check everything before you turn the ticket in
I'm one of those that absolutely HATES flat rate. I believe it's singlehandedly responsible for why the general public thinks we're all crooks. It turns otherwise good technicians into hacks that cut corners out of necessity just to make a paycheck, and increases the amount of unnecessary things being sold to a customer. And yea, you're right, I hated it, not because I wasn't making money, but because I felt dishonest about it. I believe in quality over quantity, oh, and for the record FUCK warranty work. I did what you suggested, I moved to a private government fleet and I haven't looked back. Now I get paid by the hour, if I want more money, I simply just work overtime, but I can 100% guarantee my paycheck will be at least 40 hours, week after week. I will never go back to flat rate.
Great advice for any career. I'm a software developer, and it still applies. "Waiting for the oil to drain" = "Waiting for the program to compile"...
I'm a DIYer but i still enjoyed all nearly 17 minutes of this glimpse into the techniciam world.
Alessandro Pruscino I'm 15 but I diy plenty of stuff and I just started a tech program because this is what I enjoy. Either way Charles's videos are always good information and entertaining.
@@ilikeboost4764 absolutely. Charles has some really good content. Even if it isn't directly applicable to me. Good luck with tech school!
Alessandro Pruscino thanks.
Actually if you value your own time, even if you DIY this advice remains highly applicable because you're still saving time, meaning your project car can go further in the same amount of time (so, more personal satisfaction) or you can do something else once your repair or service is done with all that time u saved.
Lol, on my documentation on work orders I'd get accused of writing novels, but i, like you, wanted EVERYTHING documented. That way, if there was a issue later, I had my proof of what I did on paper.
Damn right! If you tell me I have to document things to get paid, expect that to happen. Lol
dave1135 I'll always be accused of manuals or "novels" but I don't care. I love what my current manager said about it. Yeah, but these are the notes you need if you ever go to court.
His assistant wants me to just write the required parts. I always write how I know it's bad or why I recommend replacing it. I recently took a "get a job" class and they said stories sell facts. She doesn't want the story? I'm not there when she's on the phone, but I suspect she doesn't sell as many facts, aka parts, repairs, and service.
Another gentleman wants to know the parts but tells his own story. It may not be my story, but it sells the parts, services, and repairs. I heard him a couple times.
cya cya cya only way to go . I worked with a guy that kept a book on his repairs .
Oh man, I was exactly the same way. I was excessively thorough. I emphasized quality over quantity, and well, I lasted about a year. After new service manager came in, he wanted quantity over quality.
Great Video Charles!! I preach efficiency!! Another point to mention in addition to smoking is running off to the store for those energy drinks or drinks in general, get a cheap mini fridge and stock it with water etc. Also coffee bring a thermos so you are not running to the coffee maker
fuck yeah don't take a break!... just break your ass and focus on those hours!!!
I never worked flat rate but for the right person from what I hear from my other tech friends that you can make a good living working flat rate.So my hat off for them guys and gals working flat rate.Great video Charles so keep them coming.PEACE
How to beat flat rate. Work on more than one car at a time.
Step 1. Pull a car in and write it up for service, give it to the sales advisers to sell to customer.
Step 2. While he's selling the job, pull in another car write it up and repeat.
Step 3. Start fixing the first car, then when waiting on parts start fixing the second car.
Step 4. Bounce back and forth car to car when u have down time on them. U end up finishing more than one car at a time.
The key is definitely organization and working at the pace that works for u.
So is your shop hiring? I remember going to catch matinee movie due to my shop looking like it was for rent for the first 3rd of the year.
That’s only possible if u have more than 1 bay available
4 additional ways to beat flat rate:
1. Be in a high volume "independent" shop.
2. If in a dealership don't work on brands with substantial powertrain warranties. (Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen...etc)
3. Be friendly with service writers and dispatchers. You don't have to kiss their ass and I know its hard but DON'T YELL AT THEM. This is how you will get the gravy jobs during slow times.
4. Take as many electrical and drivability jobs as possible. You'll lose your ass in the beginning but these are the jobs that help you grow as a tech so you can demand more income and work in the long run.
I need to do a video on working with advisors.
HumbleMechanic I think that's a great idea. Maybe have a service advisor do the video with you, get his/her perspective on things. I think it would help a lot of young techs on how to deal with them.
You need to be nice to the parts dept personnel, too! They can make or break you almost as much as a service writer can, and IMO the "parts guys" tend remain employed longer than the service writers do. At least that is what happened during the few years I was a dealer technician before I opened my own repair shop.
Joe, great ideas. I would add, be nice to your warranty administrator. Booking the warranty jobs properly is critical.
#4 electronic/electral problems usually caused by loose or bad connections at power or ground. Especially starter issues.
I was surprised when I found out the dealer pay structure there. Mechanics are in a field that always run into problems. The deeper you dig into a car the more problems you find.
truth!
Not only dealers, in many states independent repair shops can also have flat rate pay structure under their labor laws. The state of Illinois (where I live) is one exception, only new motor vehicle selling "dealers" (including farm implements) are allowed to remunerate repair technicians via flat rate or "piece rate" (the term for assembly line jobs here per Labor laws).
As far as what I call "onion jobs" where the deeper you dig, the more problems you find; the shop manager or service advisor has to screen jobs like that before even agreeing to take the job in.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video, I think Im going to take what you said to heart and do my best to use this as a tool.
I think flat rate is great for experienced mechanics and very bad for the poor and inexperienced mechanics.
Your video is excellent advice. Knowing the vehicle is key. For example they gave you 3 hours to change a water pump on a 6 cylinder pacer, but taking an extra step, not listed in the manual, i.e. removing the radiator actually eased access to the point that you could finish the Job in only 2 hours. I meant undoing 4 more bolts and removing one more coolant hose, but the added room made a water pump R&R job go faster and easier.
Great advice! I think up to 50% of my time is looking for tools and/or parts. Organization is key. Downtime is a great time to organize and generally sharpen the axe.
J. Hunto's Garage whenever I hurry and let my tools pile up on my service cart, it slows me down. Keeping my socket organizer and putting the sockets back as I go is faster than wondering what extension a socket is sitting on. Sometimes making a mental note that this tool is now here as I'm about to get back to it works, but more than one and I start grabbing the wrong tool.
Don't forget running back to the service writer when you find 3 cars parked in from of the one your trying to work on, and my all time favorite... Paperwork. A code from book "A", a code from book "B", a semi thesis of a written detailed explanation of every little detail of the repair (with the exception if getting parts, getting the car, doing the paperwork, and free diagnosis. If I had my choice of going back to working for a dealership, or collecting empty cans for a living?? I go collect cans.
I was a flat rate technician for 10 years Suzuki Master tech until they went bankrupt then a shirt stint at GM and finally a Subaru Master tech. The only way to make money at flat rate is know the cars Subaru short blocks for oil consumption pay 11 hours, had them down to 7.5 hours, steering racks on Legacy's paid 6 hours to drop the subframe, a couple junk wrenches and a torch I could do it in 2 hours without dropping the subframe. Upsell gravy work like flushes, I know everyone bitches about not being necessary, all fluids degrade, and need replacing. Now I never tried to upsell a flush I didn't feel actually needed done, most dealers near me use those drip cards to show the actual condition of the fluid.
I wouldn't recommend this as a profession I got out after all the airbag recalls started hitting. The pay is way low for everything you have to know, thousands of your own money in tools. If you fix 200 hundred cars right but have one comeback you're the biggest asshole that ever existed. Did a shortblock, far from my first one came back a couple days later for a TGV code, found I didn't have the plug fully locked in, took me about 10 minutes to fix and the customer was very understanding, got wrote up and told I couldn't do another shortblock for a month, mind you I always had very few comebacks.
I am OCD when working on my car I don't think I could work at a shop or even be on flat rate if I did haha. I have much respect for anyone that does work on this structure 4 sure.
I think being OCD may be as much of as advantage as a disadvantage
jcarey1010 I am too. For me to become faster at cars I had to be more confident about my knowledge I already had. Test what I need to to diagnose a problem, but never assume the answer. I like to write notes where I ask a bit ahead of where I'm at on the diagnostic, which I need to answer. If I thought ahead the right questions, all I have to do is answer those questions and I'll know what's wrong with the car.
Having an organized method, written down on the spot, holds me accountable and takes emotion out of it. Science isn't emotional. Emotion can lead to scientific tests, but never answer the questions emotionally.
I recently started as a lube tech,my first job in a shop setting. My first full week with my own bay I did 39.5 hours. I will only go out to smoke when there are no cars up front to work on. Right now we have a ton of downtime unfortunately as we are right smack dab in the middle of a ton of road construction. It's definitely hurting our business. I've found that a good thing for efficiency and accuracy is to create a process that works for you and stick to it. I like the flat rate system from the standpoint that it rewards those who really bust ass vs making the same paycheck as the guy facetiming his wife doing nothing all frikin day.
The "finding something to do while waiting for the oil to drain" is a big one
Awesome video, totally agree with you on how flat rate can be great or terrible depending on the situation. When I was a Dodge/jeep/ram tech I loved it I always found a way to book at least 40 even on slow weeks. Now I'm at Maserati/Alfa/Fiat and I can see the system failing there is not enough of these cars on the road and to keep all the techs happy sometimes there is simply no work. I'm lucky enough to also be the main used car tech but some of the guys really have to struggle for hours!
I always tell my under mechanics I don't care if it takes you 10 hours to do a 5-hour job as long as the car does not come back you did a great job
Even as a tire tech at the local Kal Tire, I never worked flat rate; the official title was "Sales and Service Hourly". However, in the years since working as said tire tech, I have taken many of the principles you've mentioned, Charles, and applied them to jobs many and varied outside the flat rate system; even if it hasn't caused my income to increase (much), it has left me in the good books with many a company when I've been forced to leave for some reason or another.
These principles you're teaching here, HumbleMechanic? They're awesome, and they're universal. Certainly, they make the most bang within a flat rate system, but they can leave an impact in other systems as well; I'm living proof. :)
I used to work as a building maintenance technician, and much of this sounds familiar. It's a different profession, but the basic concepts are the same. I also stacked jobs, figured out "hacks" to finish jobs faster, etc. Not only does it streamline your work flow, but it also reduces the amount of frustration.
You hit the nail right on the head. The problem people have with flat rate is , if you work in a general shop these guys don't want to read manuals on their days off or look up how Vehicles work and get knowledge on every kind of vehicle. They want to just make money that's it no one wants to learn anything anymore. You don't know how many times a week I'm working on a BMW and another mechanic comes by and says I hate those things they suck
I always used to leave the oil draining when I went off the parts department to get the filter, etc., and do things like check the operation of wipers & washers, horn, make sure there was no lateral play in the steering wheel, get someone to check the brake lights, and so on, when taking the car from its parking spot to the ramp.
Another advantage of keeping good notes is to cover your ass to help prove that you've done something.
And when it came to warranty, when I was in the main dealer we used to say that the pen was mightier than the spanner. Properly documenting your diagnosis and *everything* you remove and install is a pain in the backside, but so important in getting your time.
After 10 years in the business, I didn't learn anything new.
But for guys starting out this is great advice, good work.
Your advice is amazing. I just wish we had the business to use them. That's the biggest downside to flat rate, if there's no work, you can't turn hours. But you're not allowed to go home or anything like that, "cause we need you to stick around as a convenience to customers." I completely understand that, and I agree with it. But, when I'm not getting paid to stand around, "in case a customer comes in", then fuck it. Especially when the majority of the cars we see are warranty. So we're basically getting paid even less when there's finally work to do.
I know man. It makes me feel like we’re getting taken advantage of. Bad.
I had 2 bays for myself and I always made sure I had something on the lifts, and on the other techs days off I used to take over their bays.
walter perez especially with system updates 🙄
Yup or safety check on used cars
I work at an independent shop, and we take really extensive, big jobs (engine swaps, head gaskets, transmission swaps, timing chains and belts, etc) but I'm lucky that the shop owner bus the best up to date scanners and service info, and my foreman alots me plenty of time to study the job before I do it. world out lovely.
Great tip on having all your common tools on top. I keep all my sockets and bits up top, but i never considered ONLY keeping my most common tools up top. I’m gonna try that and put some of my less common tools elsewhere.
Started working at a local Honda dealership which they pay me hourly because I am their entry level Express Tech guy. The key to my success in getting cars in and out is the lift only goes up once and then down once. As I drain the oil I measure tread depth, check tire pressure and get the oil filter, or trans fluid and washers, whatever I need. As I walk back from the parts counter, I start unwrapping the filter and get everything ready to go, by the time I am at my box I toss the wrapper, throw the R.O. on my box and tighten everything up and make sure it is tight. If it is written on the R.O. that tires are to be rotated, by the time I have checked tires and pressure I can determine whether I need to investigate a tire for a leak or if the tires actually need rotated at all. If they need rotated I bring the lift down to a workable height and take lug nuts off, rotate them, put the lug nits on by hand then impact them back on. Usually after this step I take my impact off the hose, take the socket off the impact, put the impact down, and then attach my socket to my torque wrench, lower the car down all the way, torque all the wheels, and fill the engine with oil. Simple and easy, I can get a Oil change and tire rotation done in 15 minutes.
That was my exact approach when I was lube teching. I made decent money too as a flat rate lube tech.
i remember the honda dealer i was at dropped an LOF from 5tenths to 3tenths, and PDI from1hr &half to 8tenths. we start to get better.....the dealer finds new way to fuck us
A thought whilst watching was a grreat tool to help us Learn/Read/Write/Speak/Find Problems is Grammar/Knowledge/Data/Info=Who/What/Where/When=Logic/Understanding/Reason=Why=Rhetoric/Wisdom/Tell/Teach=How......great vids thanks.
I work in the diesel field as a tech at an International truck dealership. I'm so thankful we are not flat rate because warranty times are unreasonable. Especially when you take into account every truck is built to the job it will be doing so they are all set up differently even if they are the same model and year. Plus we get to soak up as much OT as we want.
I tend to end up with a pile of parts, although my tool box is organized impeccably.
This is awesome! Everything you touch on is key to winning the flat rate game! So many times I had to beat this into apprentice heads. Unfortunately BMW warranty system became very particular about the time spent on each job like brake fluid changes and oil changes. There were many times I was clocking times on repairs while I was actually pulling in the next car just to get the “happy” amount of time on the ticket so it didn’t get kicked back.
Man, I don't work on cars anymore, but I do work on garbage trucks. I felt like you were taking directly to me when you brought up how aggravating it is to figure out how a system works in order to fix it lol. Great vid. Keep it up!!
Another excellent video 👍👍👍. Summer of 2018 I finally concluded the injectors on my LB7 were not responding to every chemical on this end of the Galaxy and it was time to getter’ done. I’m a shade tree guy and had spent hours on the interwebs and UA-cam researching the challenge, so I ordered all my parts and special tools, took a deep breath and dug in.Did I mention the truck was a CA ‘03 with EGR? Yep, special fun getting around that cooler on the passenger side. 😰
Next thing I did, just as you suggested, was whip out a 4X6 notebook and write down every step I took. 20 greasy pages later (😱) and many more hours than the 17 in the “book”, I pumped the primer as my wife cranked the beast, and it fired on the third try and has been running excellent.
As you know, R&R at the dealer is 5 large, and valuing my retired hours at $0, the job came in at around $2200. At $0.50/hour, it came in at twice that. I’ll let you do the math 😀.
The notes were invaluable and I used a red pen to check off each step going backward and only ended up with a few leftover fasteners that didn’t look too important anyway and one harness bracket that continues to baffle me. As a bonus, I found a kinked line off the vacuum pump that was throwing an EGR code.
One thing I would add to your commentary. While the interwebs were full of photos, I wish I had made photos of some of the intricate connectors and plumbing and spent more time than I needed sorting the rats nest atop the fuel filter where the EGR controls reside. Sheesh.
My additional suggestion is to use that cell phone camera to make pictures of any areas that may confuse things later (did I miss that in your fine video?).
Finally, for shade tree guys like me, I highly recommend joining a Forum. Without guidance, support and encouragement from the fine folks on Duramax Forum, I might still have that truck sticking out of my garage.
Great advice, homey, and I’ll look forward to your next video. 👍👍👍👍
This had nothin to do with the flat rate pay system
Great tip on keeping notes on repairs!! I can’t even tell you how much time I’ve wasted trying to recall every test step I performed during a repair or how many times someone else in the shop has asked me about a repair I did a few months ago and I couldn’t recall what the fix was. I’ll definitely be giving that a shot!
Good vid Charles! I would like to add..... If all your lifts are taken with a disassembled vehicle and cannot be dished out the shop. Find somewhere to jack up the vehicle and use jacks/jack stands to keep working. Don't stop working. Do whatever is necessary to keep working. Also..... Try to book work for the next day or so also if you are that busy and have a good writer.
I definitely prefer flat rate over hourly. Beating the labor time is so satisfying and I definitely make more money than if I was hourly. However, it does suck when you get stuck on some long diag or warranty. I feel like an hourly plus commission system would be the sweet spot. And warranty pay should be illegal.
Except for the dealer only concerns, like training and leasing issues, all of you points hold true for myself as a home mechanic. Staying organized can be a challenge for some of us.
I struggle with it now more than before. I find it very frustrating to hunt down tools. HAHAHA
Everyone laughs at me for constantly putting my tools away.
Yes I often put them away and need them again later.
On the other hand, They are always where they are supposed to be, unless in use.
In regards to taking notes. I know almost everyone has a smart phone these days. What I usually do is have my google assistant take verbal notes as I'm working. Simple as "hey google, start taking notes". And it begins recording your voice and automatically writing notes in Google keep. That way you can have a Bluetooth headset in your ear, and with googles powerful voice recognition software, it works even in noisy shop environments. It saves a tonne of time going over and putting it all on paper. Yeah your basically talking to yourself all day long(which some ppl might find weird). But you talk to yourself when you are trying to troubleshoot anyways so you may as well make it count.
Pure brilliance!!
"Fixing the car right the 1st time!" couldn't agree more. I feel so many people forget about the one individual that funds the whole operation "The Customer". Working as a automotive mechanic basically taught me the lessons of owning a business, cost of time, tools, overhead, investments (training), effective communication, professionalism, and maintaining customer satisfaction. I must say, the skills I've learned not just those of wrenching and diagnosing cars, come out in bright light in front of me when I deal with people in different industries, and that is Customer Service. Unfortunately, I feel flat-rate can make Customer Service muddy when it comes to racking up the hours....so, pros and cons...
U just gotta get experience, the more experience u got, the more ways u can do the job faster and more efficiently. Get that done, more money. Personally, i love working in the field bc im never bored. Im constantly learning new things.
I have never been on flat rate and i am paid hourly as a heavy equipment tech but there are downsides to hourly as well one being that someone could be making more money than you but doing half the work and milking every job, i see a lot of guys milking the clock which gets frustrating when your boss knows they are milking the clock and therefore you get more work stacked up on you in your bay because they know youll actually get it done in a timely fashion.
Went to school to be a mechanic and worked in a shop for about two weeks. I said screw that and ended up being an electrical engineer. Much better career choice.
Roger that hah an ECE as well :)
I see a lot of pissed off mechanics, and I understand your frustrations, but please also look at it from the customer side. For us, flat-rate = everything gets torqued with an impact gun, broken connectors tabs, missing harness clips, fluids everywhere, damaged to unrelated components from "trying" to skip steps 5-12, improperly reinstalled or stretched harnesses leading to wires breakage, and the worse... having the customer pay for parts cannon diagnostic system ammunition...
I've had to deal with all of this stuff... That is why I refuse to let anyone touch my car anymore, even during warranty. Luckly Daimler's workshop manuals and Star Diagnostic System is dumbed down enough to where your average dealership "Bubba" mechanic can follow it and accurately diagnose a complex system fault, which is tremendous help for us DIY'ers.
Sadly, there are very few Charles' and Eric O.'s in the world, and a whole bunch of pissed-off Bubba's..
It's all a mixed bag to me. From a customer point(a POV I always try to consider) it's good on the one hand because you don't have to pay more because the tech that gets your car is slow. On the other hand it can encourage shortcuts that don't always end in the same repair. I also think you'd run the risk of those short cuts even with out flat rate.
I would love to see a pay plan that is both a guarantee and production based pay. Enough to make a fair living, but still be motivated for more.
Fuck u you try it everday
@@ryanstephens8167 yep
Thank you for this information, start tomorrow with flat rate.
I am not a tech but a customer i love when i am told the shop is flat rate and the job took longer then it should but i still got charged for the extra time , that was the last time i ever used the place .
As a customer i like hearing how it works at dealership / garage. I love japanese way of pointing on things when done, I recom it along with what has been said on 11:24
Really good video. Most people are annoying, but you do the task well. I agree with everything you talked about
Hi Charles, I’m a technician at Bmw in the uk and we get a salary as well as a flat rate system. We get a salary depending upon our technician status e.g service tech, diagnostic tech, senior tech and master tech. We also get a target of hours to “sell” depending on our status then any hours sold above your target is paid at an hourly rate once again varying on our status.
After dealing with the flat rate system for 32 years I finally beat it. I quit being a mechanic and got a good job. More benefits and paid time off. AND I get paid over time.
That's the best way to beat flat rate and not get beaten by it. Anyone want to buy some tools?
Maxwell Crazycat you accomplished my goal. What career change did you make?
I really want out
been a mechanic professionally for 3 months. honestly I enjoy fixing cars but hate the system.
I've worked at dealerships and independent shops. Both are good to gain different types of experience. I'm on my own now. I charge flat rate for straight forward work but get paid for what I know on diagnosis and drivability.
I 100% agree with this, even though I'm only an hourly lube tech. When I get to work every morning, I grab each tool that I know that I'm going to use all day and it goes into the drain caddy or on my bench. This is also where they will stay until the end of the day when I go home. I try explaining this to other co-workers and why putting a tool they're going to be using frequently is just a waste of time.
Working flat rate breaks you down both mentally and physically. I regularly flag mid 50’s to 90 hours a week, but I break my ass doing it, and I’m paying for it now. As you get older, it’s all going to catch up with you. The best advice a good tech can give you is either learn as much as you can as fast as you can, and go open your own shop; or get out while you can. At the end of the day, it’s only about the money.
The Yota Tech totally agree the industry is designed for you to work on your own anyways
I like the rush.
Great video, Charles! The only time I've ever worked in a service shop as a tech was when I was out of high school and was an apprentice, but working now as a wheel repair tech in what's more or less a body/machine shop there's a lot of things in here that definitely overlap.
Some things that I live by:
-never go anywhere empty handed
-change tools as few times as possible
-always look for ways to improve your task time, and never be satisfied.
Cheers!
I'd be useless at that lol I want to clean everything before I put it back. I'd be flat broke!
Great video and message as always Charles. I’m definitely guilty of the cell phone probably for the same reasons you were.
Good tips, I'm not a mechanic but this will help cut down time working on my own car.
Been to 3 different shops, one hourly and two flat rate shops. The flat rate shops in my assessment seem to really know what they’re doing, and actually do the job right! Sure the clock can cause an oversight, but they generally do flat rate because it’s not their first rodeo!
Hej Charles, totally love your attitude. Will adapt some of your insights to our company's guidelines (including tipps mentioned in some other of you videos). You work really hard and don't laze around. That's our spirit too. Again: You are really top!
Charles, Got out of the crappy shop in washington now in oregon.. got a job right away at a shop 15 minutes from my house.
SPCIALIZES in RESTORING 60s BRONCOS!
(as well as a bit of everything)
SO EXCITED!!!!
Thanks for the motivation to keep kicking ass and turning wrenches to make the wold a better place :)
You the man Charles!
Relevant comment: I love being very organized and speedy but ready to slow down stop being a line/alignment tech and RESTORE CARS!!!! :)
I bet the car resto world is an interesting place to be.
Your the Man and because of you I’m so focused bro. I purchased a Sonic S10 which is super awesome and I’m now doing side jobs.
Hell yeah. Go get it!!
To Dave Pierce I agree with you after working in a dealership for 32yrs. Got myself a gov job repairing fleet. Yearly pay increases, benefits, and time off. Almost taught automotive than realized I could not convince others to go into the field with a good concise. To the youtube video want he said is only common sense but money making maintenance has all but disappeared
Diags: get a Hayes manuel. Its usually right. Even stuff people have a hard time ts. Bent spindle destroys wheel bearing repeatedly. Toyota (Corolla 2012) dealer couldn't figure it out. I had a manuel for a 1999 Malibu and it did say that. They all work the same more or less.
I am here to report I kicked ass this pay period & clocked 227.3 hours in two weeks..
I am a 32yr old (almost Honda Master technician ) with 10 years experience.
Tips for new techs:
Roll cart organization.
Take on as much work as possible.
Stop standing around if there is no work, take online training.. you most likely get paid per “class” or “test”
Come in early & stay late.
Do a good inspection in order to upsell good jobs.
Hell yea!!!!! Good on ya
I'm neither pro or con on smoking, but you're remark about smoking breaks applies to every profession. During my career, I would walk out to go get in my car to go make sales calls and see commission paid co-workers taking frequent smoke breaks sitting on the benches outside of our offices and literally wonder how they got anything done. I'm sure they did get things done, I'm just not sure if I could be a smoker taking many breaks and getting things done. So I guess what I'm saying is... well said!
No complaints on the video, sound advice and should be considered, Kia Flat Rate tech for 7 yrs
Just wanted to touch upon the part where you spoke about taking your time to figure out what's wrong instead of rushing to get a car out the door. I couldn't agree with you more. Last year I took my car to the BMW of Freeport dealership to check out my wife's Mini Cooper which wasn't running correctly. They tried to tell me that because I had aftermarket spark plugs which were supplied by the dealership I will have to get a new engine which would cost in excess of $10,000. I told them they were full of s***because I never changed the spark plugs and they are still the OEM original spark plugs to the car. I then had to take off of work in order to diagnose the car on my own. I found that although the spark plugs did need to be changed it was not the spark plugs that was making the car run shity in fact it was the mass airflow sensor that needed to be changed. Once I changed it out everything ran beautiful as if I bought a brand new car.
Stocking jobs and documentation is the two places I saw the most moneymade.
thanks for the information man, because ill be going into auto technician.
Really good video! Especially the part about fixing it right the First time and the smart working and not waiting, i really can relate to it!
Telling it like is. Love it. Great video and I enjoyed the EE visit! Hope you enjoyed Idaho
I wouldn’t want it any other way. I make way more on flat rate than I would hourly. I’ve worked at dealerships and independent. 6 figures is possible at both!
Would you like some mash potatoes with your gravy sir?
potatoe4221 there’s a lot that goes into making good money as a tech. It takes a lot of hard work.
How many hours and days were you working?
Boss Life 6 days a week with 1 sat a month off. Around 55 hrs a week
I worked for a BMW dealership. We could lease a new 5 series cor $85.00 a month. We had the top rated shop in the state because most of us drove BMW's
That’s super cool
Great video, makes me want to get out of the engine machining business cause it ain’t paying the bills haha or atleast find a shop that will pay me fairly.
This video is a good reminder to think ahead and do things with your head... on the other hand I do some naughty things to get the job done faster like use a g-clamp on the hoist button so I can whip the wheels on while the car is going down. I know I wouldn't get away with that in a dealership haha
Edit: on another note I smoked in school but when I started working for my dad I noticed I would get angry very quickly when the job wasn't going easy and have to stop to smoke. Now that I don't smoke I don't get such a hot head when the job sucks and I don't have that excuse to take a brake it makes my job and life in general a lot easier.
HAHAHA Nah that would get nipped really fast. But I love the ingenuity of it.
Haha thanks i have a few little tricks I'm always trying to find more 👌🏻
Awesome video, really trying to tap into the flat rate mind set
A MEN on the smoking. seen so much time wasted on smoking. also seen alot of wasted time with people over using power tools. for example i worked in the rust belt for a long time and watched people hit bolts with an impact breaking them off then have to extract, when i would grab some hand tools and good penetrant and get the job done before the other guy even got the bolt extracted. and yes i did use torches when necessary as well.
Great topic Charles! New to your channel, but I started to glaze over on this specific video despite your info and enthusiasm. Maybe in future vids, break it up a bit more to avoid us falling asleep bro! But your arguments are very well thought out, especially efficiency!
Lol tough to make flat rate exciting I guess. Ha
@@HumbleMechanic Ah, you are a good sport, and a great addition to the community! I have adopted a lot of your recommendations for sure. Flat rate is really hard to adhere to in the modern age of electronic controlled autos. I loose money often on flat rate. Diagnostics are straight time, but brakes and suspensions are flat rate. This week I rebuilt a Volvo version of the GM 4T65e... Immediately after start up, a Turbo boost code shows up. This is a twin turbo or T6 engine. We checked everything out that could have been affected by re and re trans, but to no avail. Neither us, the dealer, the specialists, IPD USA, nor FCP Euro can figure either. All I can do is eat the time while trying everything I know to fix, even expensive parts to remedy. So, no, I’m not a fan of flat rate! That use to work on simpler cars.
@15:41 “To smoke together and complain about how bad flat rate is” 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
I work as an aerospace machinist and there used to be more piecemeal (what we call flat rate) jobs which only encouraged guys to run machines at ridiculous feed rates that could potentially damage the mills or even the worker. Luckily, a lot of the industry unionized and through worker power were able to get a fair hourly wage like any other skilled factory worker. Don't get exploited! Organize!
I think for Automotive it will have to be a complete industry shift. Many places have unions and the issues still happen.
I needed to hear this I want to move up man these lube tech checks are not cutting it have to hit at least 80 hours flat to get a decent check
I had an issue a while ago which is true bout the knowledge aspect, i had purchased a non modular clutch for my vehicle, meaning everyone is put together as one assembly and parts are independently serviceable, i had a tech try to take apart the assembly in order to install them as if it were a non modular setup, needless to say, someone other than me purchased a new clutch that day
Yea you have to multi task to make money in a shop with a flat rate. I had two bays so I could work on two at once. It made a difference in my pay.
I personally hated the flat rate system. I did mostly front end/ brakes, etc at a major brand new car dealership. I had one serious curse compared to a few other techs. I could still hear a wide range of noises. High and low frequencies. So guess who got all the noise concerns on vehicles under warranty after another tech UTD'd it. So while I am chasing a noise with chassis ears all over a corner of a car for the" squeak over a bump when cold", during the summer days over 98 degrees with the wind from the southeast after a full moon, I tend to get a little bitter seeing the other guys doing the "gravy" The service dept warranty clerk was a freaking nightmare on paying anything M-time or A-time, due to some areas being high in warranty costs. My CSI scores declined due to the fact I got all the trouble cars, and I tried to fix them right and needless to say, pay did also.
I make so much more on flat rate. If u can run multiple bays DO IT. if ur writers take forever, get the car in, write it up and get it out so the new one can come in. I used to not start working on cars until after lunch cuz I would write up 4-6 cars in the morn. Get ur own brake and coolant vacuums, a laptop and mongoose for the scanner. Indeed stacking jobs is key, u can do diffs, t case, trans, drain coolant and oil and do brake flush at same time. Raise the car ONCE! I’m doing 80-100hrs a week at $33hr. Now go do that math
Damn son, send some gravy my way. My shop they send all the gravy to the other techs because they can't handle shit. Then they stick me with the scratch your brain out jobs while paying me half as everyone else because I'm new. :) So yeah my flat rate experience sucks so far. I've yet to have a week where I actually make what I work.
potatoe4221 man that sucks... u dealer or independent? This last pay period I did 273hrs, it was a 12 day period and I skipped lunch every day cuz I was so fucking busy w gravy.
Our shop tops our master techs at $22. I'm at $16.
one of my old shops was cheap as fuck, & you'll never go beyond the foreman, so why pursue it was my logic, found other things.
I've never had to deal with the flat rate system but I know several techs who suffered with it. What I was told it was who you know or out the door you go. God forbid if you break a bolt..here in the San Francisco bay area, the fast pace, high cost of living causes a hostile work environment. Sad
The ability to be successful as a flat rate tech does somewhat depend on the work situation and the building you are in. But I stand behind the idea that if it REALLY does suck, then you should leave. I have also seen people complain it sucks, but the things they were not happy with point back to a lack of effort on their part.
HumbleMechanic I agree. I know guys who made the rounds to all the dealers...i guess it sucks here in Cali 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
first thing that came to mind was electrical troubleshooting and rusted/broken fasteners. What about servicing used parts to save the customer money? Or just replace all with new and let him pay??
That’s case by case in my opinion
I do well under flat rate now but it was a struggle and a half as an apprentice. Any licensed tech should be able to make hours assuming your shop is run efficiently but I truly believe apprentices need to be paid hourly. They need to learn how to perform repairs properly.
Great insights! Tbh, I kinda miss flat rate. Made me hustle more.
I like Flat Rate I used to Beat It 4 out of 5 Times Typically. It Encourages Learning Dane job on Sane Type of Vehicle With Each I became Faster at Completion Without Cutting Corners on Quality of My Work
Exactly. My philosophy is, if you're doing nothing, you're doing something wrong. I've seen a guy get a car on the lift and start doing his inspection first. Then he'll drain the oil, rotate the tires, and inflate the tires. Totally ass backwards. Drove me nuts.
Man...thank you. This is gold
I, a tech who currently goes through all of these things everyday and the only thing im finding an issue with is the documenting.. i agree all of it needs to documented but when i was trying to document my work, the amount of time it took to write everything down took way more time then i could ever make on most jobs. I had to stop writing because it caused me to be so behind and even sometimes knocked me out of my mind set trying to fix the problem.
Very interesting, I always heard of the flat rate, but it's nice to hear about it from the Humble Mechanic
I think my second or third video was on flat rate. It was not pretty HAHAHA
Yes, the mechanics should be able to lease a car. Owning a 2016 VW with all the toys I sometimes wonder if they totally understand when I talk about the proximity sensors giving false alarms in rain, snow or next to pearl white SUVs in traffic if they haven’t experienced it themselves.
I was lucky I was in a shop with 9 bays and 3 guys. So the way I beat flat rate, was stacking jobs. I was able to jump between jobs while waiting for parts on one job or waiting for the brake lathe to finish turning rotors I was looking at the next job so by the time I would finish one that job I would have parts ready for the next
Nice!!!