Chapter 4 in Rhythm of War has another clue, where Veil uses an alias to infiltrate the Sons of Honor, "Chanasha Hasareh, you have a fine and reputable name. After the legacy of Chanaranach'Elin, Herald of the Common Man..."
The other clue, the one I love the most is Words of Radiance Chapter 10. It begins with "The world ended, and Shallan was to blame" referring to her killing her mom. I mean, what else would end the world if not start startting another desolation.
Im a little confused. So basically once shallan killed her mom, she went to braise or wherever the parshendi souls are. There she gave in to the torture and thats why both her and taln were sent back six years later ?
@@brett_zesty incredible just incredible. I cant wait for brando to delve into Taln. I feel like hes finally knock wheeloftime's Moroden off my #1 fantasy character spot.
A little past halfway through Chapter 77 in WoR there's a conversation between Navani and shallan about jasnah. Navani references chanarach to give her strength not to strangle jasnah. Shallans mother tried to strangle shallan. That's a very Brando way to forshadow.
The people on Roshar don't actually look at symmetry visually, but phonetically. The Alethi (I by extension the veden) don't use the English alphabet, but their own alphabet, where every sound has a glyph. So in the book what Kabsal means is that her name (one glyph for the SH sound) (one glyph for the AH sound) (one glyph for the LL sound) (one glyph for the AH sound again) (one glyph for the N sound) When spelled in glyphs like that her name is a five letter word where the middle three letters as symmetrical. her name would only have to be nallan or (SH)alla(SH), changing either the first or last letter to be perfect
Actually the women's script is distinct from glyphs, but otherwise yes. As Kabsal points out, her name is one letter away from perfectly symmetrical, showing respect without hubris, like many Vorin names. Navani, Jalal. Also I think they would write it as two distinct L's, not a single letter for double L, though I could be mistaken. Amaram (and maybe the other sons of honor) are trying to hack together a phonetic language from glyphs but it's not very good.
I mean yeah she HAS to be. Both redheads, both Mother & Herald died in the same year and month. And what else could Shallan's FINAL secrect be that's worse than all others if not the fact that it's Shallan's "fault" that she killed her mother, sent her back to be tortured which led to her breaking & causing this Desolation. We know Taln didn't break! Shallan would blame herself (& would supress the memories)
This will be interesting to see. I have been under the impression that Shallan is ignorant of who her mother was. Brandon could certainly make her knowing very interesting.
I've never really liked that, since it's not her fault. Like, part of what Shallan has to accept is that it's not even her fault she killed her mother, since everyone has the right to self-defense. But while you could at least say, on some level, even as a child, Shallan realized that she was choosing to kill her own mother to save her own life, there's literally no possible way anyone could say she had any potential inkling that doing so would also return the Voidbringers.
A new detail i'd like to add is shallan was 11 when she killed her mother and the assassination of king gavilar was 6 years prior to TWoK. At the start of book five the storm father has said that a herald has died to gavilar this could be likely shallan's mother Chanarach as it is the same year. Sources: ua-cam.com/video/N7IAXaDWdKU/v-deo.html
Okay I’ve been on board with this theory but you bring up several things I never considered! 6:03 Interesting…I’ve never seen that chart before and always associated both “just” and “obedient” with Nale, somewhat equating the 2. This definitely adds fuel here!!
I saw a cool theory that shallans mother wasnt actually trying to kill her but rather trying to stab her with a duralumin spike to steal her Connection with her spren, i really like this
Soldier: Gets murdered by a toddler. Maybe not so 'check'. Well, at least this isn't the theory that Shallan herself is Chanarach. "A long history" Her mother and brother both worked with the Skybreakers for years. That can be "a long time." The reason the line "didn't stand out" to you when you first read it is because people in this and every book in this series and the cosmere will refer to "a long time" without meaning centuries, let alone millennia. This is the flimsiest possible evidence, to the point that it no more supports your theory than any other because "a long time" could just refer to the decades her mother and brother spent with the skybreakers or her father with the ghostbloods. That would be exactly how he'd say it if it was that, as well. And this is one of your biggest pieces of evidence? About the palindrome names: Sh is one letter in the Vorin Women's Script. So, the letters of her name are "sh", "a", "l", "l", "a", "n". So it's that sh and n are the ones that are off; either nallan or shallash would be perfectly symmetrical. (n and sh do look a little bit like each other). Also, this isn't special or unique to her or the family, this is pretty common in Alethy and Veden Light-eyed cultures. Sadeas notes his own wife's name, Ialai is actually a pure palindrome, which is somewhat daring. Navani. Jasnah (remember, as Shallan tells Pattern, the H is a wildcard that matches to any other letter, so just the sn is the only mismatch). Look through Adolin's list of romantic partners. I guess you're claiming that every lighteyed vorin woman is Charanach's daughter?
I don’t understand the conclusion that Taln didn’t break? If Chanarach died, she joined him on Braize. Then, both of them would need to break for another Desolation to start, right?
I love your analysis videos but, in this case and I may be missing something, if her mom was a Herald and killed (not with a special Herald-killing blade) would the mother not have been sent back to Braize? Or if the Oath pact was broken, is she not relatively immortal and just heal staying on Roshar even from a Shard cut?
The theory is precisely that she did get sent back to Braize and that she is the one who then broke a few years later, bringing on the desolation, allowing more voidspren onto Roshar in the conventional manner.
I totally disagree about Chanarach forgiving Shallan. I think there is a good chance that Shallan will have to kill her again, PERMANENTLY this time. Chanarach tried to kill her the last time they were together. Being sent by your child to Tortureland for 6, 7 years isn't really all that likely to have improved her opinion of Shallan if you ask me.
It's more that the th sound blend is represented by a single symbol. They don't use the English alphabet. Look up the Alethi Women's Script, it looks like sound waveforms.
You may be right, though I don't know where anything clearly indicates some anatomical difference in being able to procreate. I think most heralds just decided not to.
@@crockettcast2702 Brandon has been kind of unclear on the subject, seemingly on purpose. When asked, I believe, if they could have children he said yes but when the person asked for clarification, if they can have children in the conventional method, he RAFO'd it.
Chapter 4 in Rhythm of War has another clue, where Veil uses an alias to infiltrate the Sons of Honor, "Chanasha Hasareh, you have a fine and reputable name. After the legacy of Chanaranach'Elin, Herald of the Common Man..."
The other clue, the one I love the most is Words of Radiance Chapter 10.
It begins with "The world ended, and Shallan was to blame" referring to her killing her mom.
I mean, what else would end the world if not start startting another desolation.
That is GOOD.
Im a little confused. So basically once shallan killed her mom, she went to braise or wherever the parshendi souls are. There she gave in to the torture and thats why both her and taln were sent back six years later ?
@@Osyrous exactly
@@OsyrousYes. Because Taln never broke.
@@brett_zesty incredible just incredible. I cant wait for brando to delve into Taln. I feel like hes finally knock wheeloftime's Moroden off my #1 fantasy character spot.
"Stands to reason that Taln didnt break"
Yeah Brandon confirmed this nugget. Explicitly.
A little past halfway through Chapter 77 in WoR there's a conversation between Navani and shallan about jasnah. Navani references chanarach to give her strength not to strangle jasnah. Shallans mother tried to strangle shallan. That's a very Brando way to forshadow.
What a great little find. I'm tabbing that one away.
The people on Roshar don't actually look at symmetry visually, but phonetically. The Alethi (I by extension the veden) don't use the English alphabet, but their own alphabet, where every sound has a glyph. So in the book what Kabsal means is that her name (one glyph for the SH sound) (one glyph for the AH sound) (one glyph for the LL sound) (one glyph for the AH sound again) (one glyph for the N sound)
When spelled in glyphs like that her name is a five letter word where the middle three letters as symmetrical. her name would only have to be nallan or (SH)alla(SH), changing either the first or last letter to be perfect
Actually the women's script is distinct from glyphs, but otherwise yes. As Kabsal points out, her name is one letter away from perfectly symmetrical, showing respect without hubris, like many Vorin names. Navani, Jalal. Also I think they would write it as two distinct L's, not a single letter for double L, though I could be mistaken.
Amaram (and maybe the other sons of honor) are trying to hack together a phonetic language from glyphs but it's not very good.
I mean yeah she HAS to be. Both redheads, both Mother & Herald died in the same year and month. And what else could Shallan's FINAL secrect be that's worse than all others if not the fact that it's Shallan's "fault" that she killed her mother, sent her back to be tortured which led to her breaking & causing this Desolation. We know Taln didn't break!
Shallan would blame herself (& would supress the memories)
This will be interesting to see. I have been under the impression that Shallan is ignorant of who her mother was. Brandon could certainly make her knowing very interesting.
I've never really liked that, since it's not her fault. Like, part of what Shallan has to accept is that it's not even her fault she killed her mother, since everyone has the right to self-defense. But while you could at least say, on some level, even as a child, Shallan realized that she was choosing to kill her own mother to save her own life, there's literally no possible way anyone could say she had any potential inkling that doing so would also return the Voidbringers.
Shallan also does mention that and h can be used as any other letter too for the sake of symmetry
A new detail i'd like to add is shallan was 11 when she killed her mother and the assassination of king gavilar was 6 years prior to TWoK. At the start of book five the storm father has said that a herald has died to gavilar this could be likely shallan's mother Chanarach as it is the same year. Sources: ua-cam.com/video/N7IAXaDWdKU/v-deo.html
Did you even watch the video or are you just slow?
@@wooshbait36 i wrote it during the middle of the video, but yea he brings it up at about 9 mins in.
Okay I’ve been on board with this theory but you bring up several things I never considered! 6:03 Interesting…I’ve never seen that chart before and always associated both “just” and “obedient” with Nale, somewhat equating the 2. This definitely adds fuel here!!
I saw a cool theory that shallans mother wasnt actually trying to kill her but rather trying to stab her with a duralumin spike to steal her Connection with her spren, i really like this
That would certainly be intriguing!
Taln didn't break is the hypest thing
You're telling me!
Best explanation of this theory.
Thank you
Chana’s soalcasting preferences is fire! 😂
I'm a stick!
Soldier: Gets murdered by a toddler. Maybe not so 'check'.
Well, at least this isn't the theory that Shallan herself is Chanarach.
"A long history" Her mother and brother both worked with the Skybreakers for years. That can be "a long time." The reason the line "didn't stand out" to you when you first read it is because people in this and every book in this series and the cosmere will refer to "a long time" without meaning centuries, let alone millennia. This is the flimsiest possible evidence, to the point that it no more supports your theory than any other because "a long time" could just refer to the decades her mother and brother spent with the skybreakers or her father with the ghostbloods. That would be exactly how he'd say it if it was that, as well. And this is one of your biggest pieces of evidence?
About the palindrome names: Sh is one letter in the Vorin Women's Script. So, the letters of her name are "sh", "a", "l", "l", "a", "n". So it's that sh and n are the ones that are off; either nallan or shallash would be perfectly symmetrical. (n and sh do look a little bit like each other).
Also, this isn't special or unique to her or the family, this is pretty common in Alethy and Veden Light-eyed cultures. Sadeas notes his own wife's name, Ialai is actually a pure palindrome, which is somewhat daring. Navani. Jasnah (remember, as Shallan tells Pattern, the H is a wildcard that matches to any other letter, so just the sn is the only mismatch). Look through Adolin's list of romantic partners. I guess you're claiming that every lighteyed vorin woman is Charanach's daughter?
I don’t understand the conclusion that Taln didn’t break?
If Chanarach died, she joined him on Braize. Then, both of them would need to break for another Desolation to start, right?
Only one needs to break to trigger a Desolation
@@johnj650 I totally didn’t go on a 17th Shard and Coppermind binge that went waaay on a tangent 🙈🙄
Shalan is going to need at least two more truths to progress.
Right! And wouldn't it be such a fulfilling thing for one of them to be the truth about her maternal heritage?!
Talk about a Red "hairing" ...am I right?
That is exactly the type of double pun Sanderson would fall over himself to write.
I love your analysis videos but, in this case and I may be missing something, if her mom was a Herald and killed (not with a special Herald-killing blade) would the mother not have been sent back to Braize? Or if the Oath pact was broken, is she not relatively immortal and just heal staying on Roshar even from a Shard cut?
The theory is precisely that she did get sent back to Braize and that she is the one who then broke a few years later, bringing on the desolation, allowing more voidspren onto Roshar in the conventional manner.
I totally disagree about Chanarach forgiving Shallan. I think there is a good chance that Shallan will have to kill her again, PERMANENTLY this time. Chanarach tried to kill her the last time they were together. Being sent by your child to Tortureland for 6, 7 years isn't really all that likely to have improved her opinion of Shallan if you ask me.
Very possible...AND so dramatic and heart wrenching for Shallan.
In Vorinism, H doesn't count. That's why Alethela is still a perfect name
It's more that the th sound blend is represented by a single symbol. They don't use the English alphabet. Look up the Alethi Women's Script, it looks like sound waveforms.
Duh. Of course. What a silly oversight on my part. Nice observation.
A BLUES CLUES REFERENCE!? 😂😂
You do what you gotta...
I think heralds can't have children after they have become heralds.
You may be right, though I don't know where anything clearly indicates some anatomical difference in being able to procreate. I think most heralds just decided not to.
@@crockettcast2702 Brandon has been kind of unclear on the subject, seemingly on purpose. When asked, I believe, if they could have children he said yes but when the person asked for clarification, if they can have children in the conventional method, he RAFO'd it.
Don’t apply English rules to rosharan names, they have completely different alphabets