HOT WATER HEATING: How to Use a Tank-Style Water Heater
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2018
- The right kind of tank-style water heater makes a great source of heat for any kind of hot water space heating system. Simple, economical, easy to maintain and reliable. Check out this detailed technical tutorial on how to make it happen.
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I bought this water heater ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).
I've been plumbing 4 20 years and have done everything from residential to 30 million dollar plumbing/mechanical projects. That has involved solar, geothermal, boilers and hydronic systems. Great job on your understanding of the system 👏 best video so fair.
I’m the best in the world. Good job on the video
Valves Valves Valves ! Your layout is vey well done and from a engineering standpoint is excellent . being able to turn off a valve or two to isolate a part makes things like this so much less complicated. I use to design equipment and the parts manage would always get mad because I used so many valves. But no one complained when we had to fix something.
Thanks brother, very helpful, I’m a retired builder going to build a small cottage in New Mexico so this worked out perfectly for that.
That lesson was very well done. It was clear, concise, the important points were reinforced and best of all (and this is how you know it’s a winner) I could easily understand every step of the process.
Kudos and thank you. That was a joy.
Thank you , very well put together, well thought out and planned video, learned much, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You made it so simple.
Thank you SOOOOOOO much! Great Video and spot on presentation very well explained! This is what i have been trying to figure out for my own home in upstate NY God Bless
Very well explained kept it simple because it’s a simple system you use simple terms that even somebody not in the industry can understand 👍
Thank you for this excellent idea. Implemented it and it works like charm.
Amazing! This is the best explanation ever. Thank you!
This was such a wonderful explanation, thank you! So many U.S. plumbers don't seem to know anything about these simple systems, and manufacturers don't make it easy to find models with the hydronic/recirculating loops on their web sites. If you have a condo in which one of these was built in like we do, you really don't have any other option. This video helped with a pointer to the AO Smith Polaris model as well, which is a good brand and helped us in our research.
Great video! Thank you for taking the time to show us this system!
Awesome tutorial!!! Thanks!!! 😃👍
Thank you, so clear and complete!
We love the heat exchange version with two separate loops and are planning to do this in our earth sheltered home build this summer. We are posting a video today and we hope you are ok that we linked to this and shared a picture with your channel info on what we are hoping to do. We actually have a question about how many btu's we would actually need for our application. Thanks so much for a great informative video! ~Kathie
Thank you so much for the wonderful video and clear explanations!
Great video. Answered questions.
Im building a system similar to your described with a heat exchanger. Great tip on valves to allow flushing and cleaning of the exchanger
Very good explanation.
Thank you!
Thanks for the video, simplified diagram and the info about water heater capability was just what I needed.
Thank you for sharing that information,it will help with my installation,heat exchanger great idea.should be completed by 11/2019 TY
Thanks for the video. Good explanation.
very good knowledge
excellent video,, every thing I wanted to know,, thanks
Great video. Thank you
I have had a thought regarding this type of system. What about a connection from the incoming cold water line to the line going to the in-floor or radiator system? In the winter, you can operate the system just as you show in your video. In the summer, you could shut off the line going to the bottom of the water heater on the left side, and shut off the hot water line right at the upper right exit on the water heater, and open the bypass line to direct cold water to the in floor loops first. This would cause the cold water to circulate through the home before entering the water heater at the lower right side. You would not only keep continuous flow in your system, but the could be some added benefit from the cool water flowing through the house. If you think this type of setup might work, my only question would be in regard to the placement of the overflow tank. You might possible need to install a second one after the circulator pump for pressure control in the cooling season. In that case the by-pass connection could go before the tank on the left side of the setup. What are your thoughts on this idea?
Great video, appreciated
Ty for sharing your knowledge 1st video I found when searching
Nice vid guy! I’m showing this to my wife to help explain my own system. FYI I’m using separate heat on demand systems. With wood boiler tie ins Plus use a un-insulated holding tank for well water to reduce size on heater needs. It’s much easer to heat room temp water than ground temp water. Again nice learning vid
Hey Dan, I'm trying to figure out how to merge an outdoor wood boiler with my already installed on demand propane boiler with baseboard heat. Is this similar to what you did?
Old news, but good news.
Nice vid.
Great info... thanks
That was fantastic information. Thanks for taking the time to explain the different methods and pros and cons. Well done
Great video! Answered several of my questions. With the simple system, tank to heat exchanger, this would be the higher pressured system like was discussed in the last part of the video. Gives me something to go with! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
THANK YOU. As stated in a comment below there are some 'short-comings', BUT with a couple mods, this is a great system.
What are the short comings
What an amazing video. I found out that our house is on that simple system, but it seems that is frowned upon now since they built the house in 2006 in Alberta. I talked with a good plumber and it looks like we are going with a heat exchanger setup like this. Such a helpful video. Thank you!
Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad my video was of use to you. Bye for now, Steve
Best video on the subject I have found! If iIwant to only run the "Simple" space heating side with a closed loop (no tie-in to domestic water) do I need an expansion tank? If so, where would be best to install it? Thank you very much.
Brilliant!
Drop by my website baileylineroad.com for a visit sometime. You'll find lots of stuff there, including tool giveaways, articles and lots of other stuff of interest to hands-on, how-to people.
Bye for now and thanks for watching!
Steve
Hey Steve, been following you for years. Really appreciate all of your videos, have learned a lot! I have the Polaris for domestic/in floor heat source as well. Used as backup to my wood boiler as I believe you have too. Do you not find the Polaris short cycles constantly during radiant heat usage? Trying to figure out how to wire in a relay and resistor, or a set point controller to open up the tight temp differential..
Thank you for this content! Great diagrams and easy to understand format
If your using this type of system , I would recommend a tank capacity larger than you need & hook up solar panels as well. Can heat your home for the cost of running a small pump
Kevin R the thermostat opens the zone valve.the zone valve has a built in n.o relay that starts the pump.
I like the simple system. This looks like it will work for my house. My domestic water heater is a tankless unit, and I want it completely separate from the hydronic system. No worries about excess mineral deposits, cross-contamination, etc. esp since the "water" in the radiators will be anti-freeze, not plain water.
Very good! I currently have a wood burner that handleas all heating needs in winter. I like how simple this is but I have the benefit of my house running on solar so I am looking at similar design using electric hot water tank
Did you ever do it? Was your electric bill very high?
I have been thinking of this concept and wasnt sure if it is already out there until I saw this video. Thanks for putting this out. Do you have one that covers the set up on radiator side. Can this work in a forced air system?
Ive been in hvac industrt for 10 years . I have never seen this application. But great vid
I'll bet you never saw a Honda Civic radiator installed in an insulated box in the return air duct to the gas furnace. The air filters installed in a vee have 6 times the area of the original filter. And yes, there is a fiberglass drain pan and hose under the radiator in case of leak. The radiator sits at an angle so the box doesn't need to be so wide.
What about a mixing valve for the hot water going to the faucets to keep the water temp around 110 so you don’t get scalded ?
Great, clear explanation. My only concern is that a water heater is usually maintaining 125 - 130F, but hydronic floor systems want no more than 90F or they will cause cupping of hardwood floors, won't they ? It seems like a heat exchanger would be necessary and not optional. That way the pump on the loop from water heater through heat exchanger hot side could come on only long enough to maintain that lower temp in the hydronic side.
I have two hot water tanks ran in series with the heat exchanger method. And the recirculating pump off the side of the hot water tank runs continuously. I’m wondering if you can set it up to only come on when the thermostat calls for temperature even know I have two separate zones with two separate pumps thanks!
Thank you for yoru video. Will a hybrid heat pump water heater work with a hyrdronic heating system as shown above or does it require a special water heater like polaris?
Is the hydronic loop for the baseboard heating a closed loop inside the water tank. Meaning that it's not mixing with the potable water circuit of the tank. Or is it open looped. And does that matter like within a boiler. I ask because I'm curious if I use a high efficiency hybrid water tank to heat a small garage 12 x 18 and also for the potable water of the house itself if that can be done without issues.
Thanks for the video. This would be a good backup system for an outdoor wood boiler (OWB). The OWB's heated water would run thru a heat exchanger at the cold water inlet, heating the water before it enters the Polaris. When the OWB is providing heat, the Polaris wouldn't need to run, but would still provide hot tap water and house heat. When the OWB isn't providing heat, the Polaris would turn on and heat the domestic tap water along with the house.
I have a 30 x40 house i built, 2x6 walls i think i used r28 walls and r38 ceiling, my ground floor is my wood shop buss/ with 1/2 per in 4'' concrete over the silver reflective bubble material with 2'' blue foam, i am going to put r/heat loops in the living space floor above. can you give me your opinion of the Polaris btu size for my home? also serculator pump size , Thanks again for your Video . Thanks Rich
Great information this is the best explanation I have found. How do I calculate how many BTUs I will need for in floor heating of the shop?
Richard Martinek get a heat loss done. Let me know info and I can do one as well.
In reference to the second method, is there any downside to running the hot line output from the bottom (side port) of the hot water tank and then having the cold return at the top(side port) of the tank?
What kind of brand circulating pump do you recommend?
can you use this for a radiant floor heating.....
How about using a high efficiency tankless heater with the plate exchange system?
Thank you for this video. I recently upgraded an open system with a DHW heater (that I was using to heat our basement slab) to a closed system using this video as a guide. I found a used Polaris unit on kijiji for $700! (score). It was my first time working with the threaded pipe - the learning curve involved proper joint sealing and tightening (I used both tape and brush-on sealant in the end) as well as union placement. It took longer than I anticipated but we are now warm and now have the option of running heating loops to the upper floor of our home (a bastardized 1905 log cabin structure in downtown Sudbury). Two questions . . . 1. should there be a relief valve on the space heating side? 2. Is it common for pressure to increase? It has crept up from 12psi (set at install) to 14.5 psi a couple of weeks later.
Yes, you need a relief valve any time you heat water in a closed system (not open to the atmosphere). Relief valves prevent things blowing up due to escalating pressure.
We live in Colorado so when the temps dip to minus, our exhaust pipe outside builds up with ice causing the system to stop working. We then have no heat. We thought we fixed this problem by removing a screen on the outside. Still happens. No heat today at -12. We have to go outside and break off the accumulated ice, wait for the water heater to regenerate before we can get heat again. Do you have any suggestions to fix this problem?
How many options are out there for hot water heaters that have a domestic water output, and a separate radiant input and output
Great job!!!
Question:
My boiler in my shop packed it in. There’s no domestic water there, or needed. I have a hot water tank that I’d like to use. This regular tank would be heating about 1000sq ft.
Would a regular hot water tank work???
Thanks!
Is there a coil in the tank to separate hot water from heating water? or are you pumping domestic hot water around the heating system? also is that a one pipe heating circuit? how do you control heating zones and radiators. The problem with one pipe heating systems is the radiators at the end of the circuit don't get as hot because you can't balance the system. I don't think that would cut the energy efficiency mustard here in the UK. Just wondering. Thanks for sharing.
can this system run standard cast iron radiators?
Can you use a Rheem High Efficiency Electric Water heater for this?
Very well presented with lots of explanation ! I loved it.
Thanks a lot
Nicholas Denver Colorado
Hi, thank you for the awesome video, I do have a quick question, on the dual tanks, where the water for the floor heating comes from?
Soheil Shivarani it comes from a separate fill valve on the heating side that typically fills to a set pressure. Standard fill pressure rate is 12psi. This is a good thing. If there’s an issue with the heat exchanger the heat side will be over pressurized and relief valve will go off. If it was the other way around you’d have dirty heat water in your drinking water!
If I want to just add baseboard heaters can i just install a circular pump to heat the radiator baseboards ?
With a simple setup instead of it leading back to the water heater through the regular tap, can you divert it to go through the main line of the heat or the hot water line at the end of the house so that it drains back through the top of the water heater? Also where it warms the pipe with whatever hot water is left over after exchange with the heat exchange or/ AC blower. So that the pipe is always warm during the cold months? Is this possible or would this be ridiculous? Thank you for your input.
Nice presentation but did not see a pressure reducing valve on the heat exchanger scheme.
Hi is it possible to use this system with an electric Tank as opposed to a gas or propane tank? Thank you.
I need to update my system from a tankless Flowmax90 and a 40L storage tank to a single large water tank. My home is heated with a Airmax 70e p2 blower which has coils inside (it’s simply a blower) I need to understand how to select and size the new tank so that there is enough heat for my home and the domestic hot water?
Would this be feasible with an electric water heater or electric heat pump type water heater? Thank you.
Could you use hybrid electric water tank ? Also if you eliminate thermostat an just use timer and set to run 50 percent leave pump circulating for a very small loop in small part of basment slab just as supplemental heating ?
Can this work where more than one zone is needed?
Have a system a bit similar to this and that works really well.
Do you use it for your home or a shop etc? If for a small home does it work well?
For my home 26feetx28 @@NotTelling51
What about two separate hot water heaters. One for domestic and the other for the heating system. I currently have a hot water heater for my water and a boiler for the baseboard heating. I'm in Pennsylvania
How much to get all the components hooked up and running in say a 1200 sq. ' house if i did all the instalation?
Thanks but I have a question, I noticed there is no air valve in either of the space heating systems. How do you blead off trapper air from the system? Ahh the more complex system handles that. Got it. But in the less complex system just add a vent in a convenient high spot...
I wonder if someone can recommend a circulator for the domestic side when using a heat exchanger. I used a Wilo S16 for the hydronic side, but having trouble finding an affordable brass circulator. The S16, being cast iron, can't be used for domestic.
Question. If im trying to heat my shop but not to warm what should i set the heater temp to ? I set it to vacation
Well, very good video, thank you. Question I have, if my exsiting tank does not have two sets of pipes as your does. Can this till be used in same way, as tapping into to top pipes. Thanks .
No! I tried this 10 years ago. It worked great for the under floor heating but you will only have lukewarm shower water. The hot water tank has a thermocline where the hottest water is drawn off the top and cold water is piped to the bottom of the tank. The tank's temperature control is reading near the bottom of the tank in the colder region. If you mix the tank water with a circulator, the thermostat on the gas valve will shut off much too early. If you jack the temp setting up, when the power fails the circ pump quits and the hot water tank will reach scalding temperature.
Reason #2. The grit stirred up by the circulator pump will clog your shower head and sink aerator.
Reason #3. You are running full house pressure in baseboard heaters that were made to operate at a much lower pressure. Have a baseboard heater leak and your room/hallway/carpet floods.
I have water heater with built in heat pump since most of time of a day heat pump stays off. I want to design system to engage the water heater to heat up air after HRV. Does anybody have thoughts on this
I've been thinking for 2 years now, to do an "in-wall" heating system with a water tank.
There are 3 reasons why I want to do it.
1st it seems more healthy. Furnace heating tends to make the house more dusty.
2nd in flower heating seems more comfortable.
and 3rd, I'm pretty sure it spends less gas than a furnace, but I'm not sure.
I was thinking of buying a 2nd water tank heater and running separately in a close loop. Do you think I shouldn't do it in a separate unit?
Do you think I can run 2 loops (basement and main floor) on one tank? ( each floor is about 900sqf)
very appreciative what you are doing. I like your tank based hydronic heating system. I am building one using a 65,000 GSW 6G5065SN-PDV-02 tank heater like the Polaris (DHW + Hydronic heating. I have installed two temperature zone heating. One for wall mount 4 radiators at 140 to 160F/total BTU around 30,000 and one for 3 circuits (150'/100'/100') of 1/2" Pex at 110F max total BTU around 20,000. The tank will be used strictly for closed loop system (no DHW). Just want to know what is the best way the implement this two temperature zone system. Thank you.
Do you know any company installing this ? How much cost to complete the work, if you don't mind please?
Do you have a recommendation on companies to use for DIY applications?
Can we also encooperate with hot water taps? Bathroom and kitchen?
Is stagnant water an issue with traditional boiler systems as well or is it only a factor with a tank?
Is this tank much more expensive than a regular one. My old house has 1 heat vent at stairs landing upstairs . I thought this would be a good way to heat those upstairs bedrooms
I paid $2,400 US for a 100,000 btu Polaris in 2013. Still works great.
And by circulating heating water in off heating season, to maintain a healthy water throughout hydronic system will add additional unwanted heat to the space which calls for cooling actually. How about isolating hydronic loop from domestic ( 2 simple ball valves installed on supply and return tank connections) and when warm months come, isolate and drain the hydronic loop completely and use cold water pressure ( thru a hose connected to city water) to flush throughly the hydronic loop?
Could u design me a radiant system ?
Is this system just as efficient As a combi wall unit economy wise?
can it work with an on-demande water heater?
perfect! great content! could you please share a heat exchanger that does the job? I saw some but only can take 10 PSI - thats not enough. if it has a good price even better - thanks!
You need a zone valve to actuate the motor.
When I saw the cold line connected to the hydronic loop, I thought maybe you were going to show how hydronic cooling could be done through the same system during the hot months; running cold municipal water through floors and radiators to cool the house while also pre-warming the water feeding the water heater and reducing its energy use.
That is a solid idea, even if your "cooling" system only worked when DHW was used. To your point, preheating the makeup water is a nice bonus. I guess the circulators could be run to even out the cooling, would take some trial and error to figure out the control that works best.
That. Would not supply enough cooling capacity.
@@ronlafever8233 Right, our water is held in tanks in my area. In the spring the water is cold but it warms up as the season gets warmer. And radiators dont have fans so even if you could get them cold enough it wouldnt do much.
Can you add air condition to this system?
Is there a good tank type water heater that’s electric that can be used for radiant heat?
Your video is great. one question about your second system. would the water in the heat exchanger circuit not get stagnant in the off season since the pump will not be circulating?
Could you also install some bypass valves to reduce the flow by bypassing the water tank itself? Im referring to the off season, to reduce stagnation.
Absolutely, Paul! That's a great point. I should have mentioned that in the video.
Thanks for watching my videos!
Steve