06 How to avoid Brake/Gear Overlap (BGOL)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 кві 2016
- Following on from my video "An Introduction to the System of Car Control", this video looks at how to avoid brake/gear overlap (BGOL) during the transition from the speed phase to the gear phase.
Many people struggle with this technique when they first start learning "Roadcraft" system, so I've made this video to help anyone who is having difficulty in eliminating BGOL from their driving.
It may be of use to observers or instructors who have a student or associate who is struggling with the basics of system. - Авто та транспорт
I've been driving for 30 years and always considered myself a good driver. I am in many ways compared to the average driver on the road in that I'm always focused, looking far ahead and good car control, however, your videos have opened my eyes.
Your driving style is very smooth and beautiful. Also not any slower A-B than my spirited driving.
However, I've been out for 3 days practising this technique and it'll take a long time to rid myself of the poor habits from years of doing things wrong.
Thank you for the videos and I'm leaning hugely from these videos.
Hi Reg,
I passed my IAM test over fifty years ago so thought I would go for a retest which I had last week. I didn't bother getting any training but drove as I normally do. I was pleasantly surprised to pass with mainly 1s, but also a few 2s, so I didn't get a First pass. Three of the areas I scored 2s for were gear changing, steering and commentary. When I first took the test the commentary had been removed from the test, and is, I believe, still only required if going for a First. Your videos have shown me how to improve in the sections where I scored 2s, so thank you very much. Once I've had time to practice them thoroughly I'll have another go at a First.
This tutorial is very useful. Well explained, brilliantly demonstrated.
Great vid. Very helpful. I found this so difficult at first, been practising it for a while and getting there.
I fairly recently (6 months ago) taught my daughter to drive.
She more recently drove my wife and I someplace and was perfectly applying the technique (while talking too!)
I encouraged her afterwards, my wife did not have a clue what we were talking about! LOL!
Thanks Reg.
I can't thank you enough for your straight to the point explanation. I'd read the chapter which is about the system but couldn't understand it completely. it seemed that it had bo difference to what I was doing in everyday driving before knowing about the system. now I understand what's the real point, you can really free your mind from overlapping basic tasks to make room for concentrating on real dangers and anticipate them in time.
Whilst not being an IAM member, I do take an interest in advanced driving techniques such as lifting your vision and observational pointers. BGOL avoidance has always seemed like witchcraft to me (despite perfecting heel 'n toe in my old Mk 1 MX-5). This, Reg, is a total eye-opener and I cannot thank you enough for this vid as it all becomes clear now.
Thanks! Keep coming back - more to come!
Thank you for this, I'm doing my emergency diving course for ambulance. BGOL has been my bug bear. This helps me to understand why it's better. I can now see how it fits in IPSGA.
Hi Reg, thanks for your vids, they are very informative. I passed my test 25 plus years ago but never owned a car or had a chance to get real driving experience and watching your vids are a great help in getting back into it. Cheers.
Thanks for the positive feedback Fred - much appreciated!
thank you Reg Local... the smallest detail can be so important.
i always used sequential downshift and engine braking before taking advanced driver training, and although i liked the idea of block changes, found eliminating overlap a real difficulty.
i used ROSPA, and honestly, i don't know if it was just my local group but my observer/instructor had no coaching ability, and the who took my mock test had such an unpleasant and even dangerous attitude i pretty much told him he could get out and walk.
Thanks Reg. That's the best description and demonstration I've seen of something which can cause difficulties for many advanced driving enthusiasts. My experience is that separation is particularly hard to stick to when there's a driver close up behind you just itching for you to get out of the way so he can crack on. Keep up the great videos!
Bill Fisken I’m aware that my automatic thoughts go to the same place, of holding up traffic. With more practice I think I’ll be a bit more seamless with keeping braking and gear change separate. Picking the point on the road where I want to be travelling at the right speed and off the brakes slooow will take practice to relearn our automatic behaviours.
Absolutely brilliant videos Reg, thanks ever so much
I did hours of Reg Local on UA-cam and 3 driving lessons and passed on my first practical test 😅 thanks Reg 👍🏻
Hi Reg, I'm working towards the IAM test and struggling with the new concept for me of avoiding BGOL, very helpful video in explaining this, liking the different camera view points to help explain the process. Really enjoying working my way now through the rest of the videos!
Great demo to validate that it's okay to depress the clutch during braking to SELECT the gear, then use the accelerator with the clutch raise to ENGAGE the gear at the right revs, in time to use the brace point to drive the hazard.
I think i was always told to separate out the clutch down phase, i imagine this might have been a deliberate technique in timing to train you to be definitely be off the brake before clutch up.
I'm always thinking about the truck bombing down the road behind me, but will do my best to use this system. Many thanks.
Great video and very well explained. I know some have already commented on partial separation of braking and gear change. When I’m making a slow-speed turn like that, once the clutch is down and I’m travelling at a speed that the higher gear is no longer going to be of any use, I select second gear, but I don’t lift off the clutch until I’m off the brake and can rev-match with the accelerator. Then I’ll lift off the clutch. I don’t think the IAM mind this approach. Chris Gilbert even says in one of his DVDs that he nearly always overlaps in such circumstances. 😮
I was pleased to see that you were using what is known as "partial BGOL". So many instructors try to teach "full separation BGOL" which, whilst not impossible in many situations, does however inevitably raise many issues for the trainee.
Hi John, there's no "partial" separation in this video - in each scenario, I fully seperate the braking phase from the gear-changing phase. You may be assuming that I'm changing gear when I dip the clutch, but I'm not - I'm just dipping the clutch in gear to avoid labouring/judder/stalling. Throughout this video, I fully seperate braking & gear-changing. That's not to say that some overlap isn't occasionally appropriate, because it is, but there's no overlap in this video.
I am in full agreement with you and have argued, just as you have, that the dipping of the clutch is to avoid stalling or juddering the engine and is not the gear change itself. As demonstrated by you in the video, the clutch is already depressed and the gear change phase of the System of Car Control (i.e. the selection of a gear and the clutch re engaged} comes after the braking is completed. This is something that many, particularly old school police trained drivers, have difficulty in accepting. They will maintain that for full separation one must always come off the brake before using the clutch.
As I said I am with you on this, which is why it was refreshing to see your video made by a police instructor.
Thanks!! great explanation! I kinda know i shouldnt do BGOL, but somehow I have been developing this incorrect way naturally. Now seeing your well demonstrated video, I try to try improve my driving skill. Problem here in Australia majority people are driving Automatic, with this system people behind me must be thinking Im driving too slow.
1m2wgood same here in the us. I swear stick shift drivers are better drivers around here as well
Excellent video Reg.Now putting correct driving into practice.I will keep trying.>:)
I am studying for my advanced driving test which I hope to take later this year. Videos like this are very helpful although I must I feel I ought to be prepared for the possibility of the police pulling me in and asking me why Ive been driving round the same stretch of road for an hour "Excuse me sir, we've seen you coming down this road twenty times now, can you explain where you think you're going?" Lol.
Great stuff, thanks .
I couldn't help but notice what ensued after you'd turned in and seen the Land Rover. My personal reaction would've been 2 things 1) lift off the pedal 2) cover the brake 3) keep half an eye on the rotation of the front wheel. From what we could see you were forced to react at the moment his wheel rotated forwards. Any comments in hindsight?
I might've been doing this wrong. I've been trying to avoid "Brake/Clutch" overlap. Often it's fine, but at the end of a high-speed road (e.g. dual carriageway leading to a roundabout) you can't block change from 6th to 2nd without bogging the engine down. I'll still aim to avoid b/c overlap, but it's helpful to know that pulling in the clutch a bit early without giving up braking to do so is acceptable, as long as you're off the brakes before actually selecting the correct gear. So my highway-into-roundabout example would be: off gas, brake-brake-brake-clutch-brake-brake, off brake, select gear, off clutch, accelerate.
If you have to brake after clutch/gear you haven’t tempered the speed down correctly.
@Lozhell or you're going downhill, or losing more speed than a single block-change can cope with.
@@lozhell and I don't brake *after* clutch, I said sometimes there's overlap. E.g. I'm still braking but need to disengage the clutch to avoid labouring the engine.
Driving a series landrover daily I realise that I’m doing ok as it’s not feasible to brake and change gear at the same time. No synchro on second so braking is forced to be separated out. And as a biker as well, long vision and hazard perception is important as I’m on drums which whilst adequate, certainly aren’t ceramic discs. Enjoying your. vids
Hi Reg, firstly, great video!
Secondly, I appreciate that it's been a while since you released this video but I was wondering if you could answer a query for me; would you rev-match your gear change as part of your final phase of this maneuver when off the brakes?
Hi Rob - yes, one of the advantages of seperating braking and gearchanging is that your right foot is free at the end of the braking phase to press the accelerator during the gear phase and match the engine speed to the road speed in the next gear.
Thank you, sir!
Great video. Time to find a little block to drive around until this sinks in :)
I have been practising this technique this last weekend, I'm clearly going to need plenty of practice. love this series, Is your first book based around these advanced driving techniques, I've been driving a while now, I'm 66, but would like to have a go at the IAM advanced test, when this ruddy lock down is down with. Thanks Martin.
Hi Martin, yes, the first book looks at these techniques and others. The IAM are resuming car training activities this month, so now is a good time to get in toich with your local group.
@@RegLocal Thank you, I shall get on Amazon and order it :)
Small point Reg, but at around 01:00 you talk about getting the speed right for the hazard and then taking the correct gear for the hazard. You don't take a gear for a hazard, you select the correct gear for the speed.
Hi Reg, would appreciate it if can you tell me please, at 07:53, after you have blipped the throttle, do you stay on the accelerator or come off it to make this turn, adding gas later, can't quite tell which from the video? Many thanks, David Walsh.
How does this effect driving of DSG automatic gearboxes. Even if I select manual mode the car will change down automatically to save damage to engine. I am practicing keeping car balanced by selecting sport or manual which holds gear better whilst navigating bends/roundabouts and always trying to get speed down before approaching hazard. I can select ECO mode which uses neutral but the only issue with this is that there is tendency if going down declines car will gain speed too much.
I wonder how to square this with the admonition not to skip gears when downshifting (in my owner's manual). I think I'll heel-toe my way down to third gear, and then come off the brake for the final shift to second before beginning the turn.
Interesting that. I was always taught not to clutch and brake without changing down (coasting) in fact I got a minor on my DSA test for doing exactly what he was doing in this video.
I've got myself used to heel and toe and doing so earlier so that, once I reach the hazard, I'm in the correct gear, at the correct speed, and only have to steer...I'll have a go with this technique and see where it gets me. Have you any videos on limit points for twisty roads? Being a cumbrian myself, I see my fair share of them. Much appreciated
Yep: ua-cam.com/video/OWD7SNU4eXs/v-deo.html and: ua-cam.com/video/dJZCPO5jyQI/v-deo.html
Downshift:
When you are to turn at bend but NOT STOPPING at the bend,
[7:59 to 8:26],[13:27 to 13:53] - separate brake and downshift. Brake in advance, slowdown, downshift, all few years before turn, so you go on turning with left foot off clutch, and right foot on gas as needed
When you are to turn at bend but STOPPING at the bend,
[8:50 to 9:00],[14:19 to 14:32] - no separation. Brake few years before junction, foot on clutch AT the junction, downshift, and stop.
Most of the time, at least for new trainers, wouldn't we often stop at junction? So, should we combine? Separated downshift few years earlier, but combined downshift at junction??
Hi Reg, I notice you don't actually release the clutch fully until the very last second, almost simultaneously to commencing the turn, rather than travelling several yards up to the junction with the clutch fully engaged. Is this simply a matter of timing or is it just my perception? Cheers, David W.
I am glad that I have an automatic as the braking and changing gears is done by the car. I wonder though, as you say its not dangerous but its something that, i presume, has been in the drivers manual since time immemorial, the first Police driving bible so to speak was published to the forces in 1937. In those days mechanics of a vehicle were more basic or rather not as sophisticated as they are nowadays and perhaps not the same as possibly changing gear could have presented more of a problem with no synchromesh,little or bad sync and therefore it could have been a problem to be braking when actually changing gear. Maybe needing to double de clutch and that can take drive, speed, time and control away from the driving especially if in a hurry to make fast progress to a situation that a police officer may find themselves going to. Something that could have been awkward to say the least with a loss of control or drive it could have been more prevalent in the past. I would imagine.
So maybe this actual practise is only a throwback to those earlier days and therefore has little importance or consequence nowadays. But is still trained to today to advanced drivers for some reason other than its not been removed from police driving courses. If changing with the foot on the brake is detrimental to the car i doubt that this applies much today as to my mind its steering and or control will not be affected enough to need this practise and i believe that its past its best, coming from nearly a century ago.
You are not wrong in that many drivers do slow too late on the brakes on all occasions , more than just at junctions and therefore when a gear change is necessary they are multitasking and perhaps that's why its considered that women drivers are safer as they can all multitask. lol . If this is a safer AND BETTER way for driving why is it not included in normal tuition given to learners right from the start and endorsed by the DVSA and in their handbook. They say absolutely nothing about it in their handbook at all
First example of turning into a junction he coasted half through the turn
Should be in the right gear and clutch up before turning the wheel
More control and grip
Should of watched more of video before realising first junction was how not to do it
I was a grade 6 adi and advanced motoring and police roadcraft trained
Thats right Reg, Brake slow Gear go
Just a question - at 12:21 I seem to think you are overlapping brake and clutch. My IAM observer is working on me separating these even more so the braking and gear change are completely separate.
Carl, overlapping brakes and clutch is perfectly acceptable - the aim is to be off the brakes before changing gear, not before declutching. Pressing the clutch prevents the engine from dropping below tickover speed, juddering and, ultimately, stalling.
@@RegLocal As in the earlier (or chronologically later) comment about 05.07?
I used to drive a petrol engine, but now I run a diesel and one thing I've notice, is if you're doing, say 40MP in 4th gear and slow down to 20MPH without changing gear or engaging the clutch, the car shudders like it's about to stall. How would you cope with something like this, or slowing to even slower speeds?
Ah. It's answered at 10:09 :-)
I also wonder how you handle braking and gear changing when the junction is on a steep downhil that's steep enough for your car to pick up speed by about 5MPH every couple of seconds.
Why don't you have more subscribers?? Your videos are fantastic! Maybe you need to add some fire and stunts to your videos?
Haha! Thanks! I just think I’m not annoying enough to have loads of subscribers!! To answer your question, overlapping at the speed/gear phase would be perfectly acceptable under the circumstances you described.
I'm not sure the question was answered or indeed made anything clearer.
Effectively reg is saying don't overlap your brakes and gears unless you have to... Well in everyday driving we approach this sort of junction or scenario quite frequently, so if its OK, what's all the fuss about.
Hi reg do you still give private lessons ..
At around 11:05 did you overlap? Is it necessary to avoid BGOL when approaching such hazards or can I do away even with an overlap? I can understand the need to avoid BGOL when approaching normal junctions but it is extremely difficult to avoid an overlap when dealing with hazards such as the one you dealt with at around 11:05.
Hi, no I'm not overlapping at 11.05. Approaching a junction, I leave the car in whatever gear it's already in, brake down to a stop and press the clutch when the engine revs drop to tickover speed to avoid judder. I'm not changing gear at this point - just dipping the clutch.
Reg Local
Do you recommend stoping or almost stopping with the clutch pressed in, rather than going to neutral? Because I've been learned to stop with the clutch in but now everybody annoys me go go to neutral and so on and I feel confused.
Boris; I would say it depends entirely on how long you anticipate being stopped. If it's at a junction where you expect to only be stopped for a few seconds (can see you're only waiting on one car or whatever), going to neutral isn't worth the effort; select your gear to set off and go when ready. If however you're at a set of traffic lights, where you could potentially be stopped for a little while, then go to neutral and take the opportunity to relax a little.
Thank you for the advice!
Sure when I am waiting longer than 7-8 sec I will go in neutral for comfort. But I am speaking for the case when you are going 60km/h, 4th gear I have been learned to brake by stepping the brake pedal till 30 let's say and then clutch so the car don't jerks, but people are telling me instead of holding the clutch all the way through this period to go straight to neutral. My instructor sad that doing it this way is less unreliable because you may need power and gear again and will be way faster if I am clutch all in.
I drive auto lately and can't remember if I had that bad habit or not. I am sure I did. I get it - brake first then select the gear to go again. But thinking back what would happen is I would brake for the turn. Pretty soon the car is going to complain about revving too slow so I have to change down. But I am still braking. Am I supposed to let go of brake, then change then brake again? What have I missed? With the auto it will almost certainly change down while I am braking.
robotics1x. I used to drive HGVs 30+ years ago and some of these had non syncromesh transmissions. You could not down shift whilst braking because your right foot had to be free. You needed to match the engine revs with the road speed and double clutch (slow down to gear down).
Depending on what you driving and how many gears it has you may need to make an earlier downshift on the approach to hazard/ corner to prevent the vehicle stalling. Then select the appropriate gear to negotiate the hazard/ corner after.
With regard to the automatic, get your speed down on the approach. Let the gearbox do it's thing, then drive round the corner as apposed to braking round the corner.
What about if you heel toe downshifts I can't stop doing it now 😂.
Great videos though reg I've learnt allot keep it up :)
Interesting video except for the part that you will be expected not to use BGOL,
During my IAM MASTERS and RoSPA I consistently used BGOL, in a straight line the brakes slow and control, get the gear it's clear, off the brake and go.
Its a very brave driver that turns into a closed ish junction, whilst not coverng the brake, see 7.52. The advantage of being ready to apply gas once turned is, in my opinion far outweighed by the possibility of meeting a hazard around that corner.
While you are right, a lot of these principles can be difficult to reconcile with civilian driving but start to make much more sense at higher speeds. System would dictate if your view is that obstructed you should be entering it slower giving you more time to react to this potentially oncoming hazard. Consider that roadcraft is written principally for blue light drivers travelling at higher speeds where making good progress is crucial.
@@sebglassey7811 I respect your comment, however with general regard to brake/ gear overlap, I can honestly say in a million miles of driving/riding high speed and low speed, I've never seen (or had it presented to me )any safety or progress advantage of avoiding brake/ gear overlap.
@@Grahamvfr I feel it makes the vehicle more settled, increasing grip and therefore safety. In my experience the difference is much less noticeable in smaller vehicles but when driving ambulances i've really felt the need to create distinct phases to settle the truck
@@sebglassey7811 Accepting you personal feedback from the vehicle, there's simply no evidence to back that up though, when a vehicle is on its brakes , it is very stable providing it has grip. Moving levers whilst this is happening has simply no effect. If it had an effect on the vehicle safety wise, blue light vehicles would never be equipped with auto transmissions, which will change gear throughout the braking process.
Never look at your passenger when driving and having a conversation
How does this change (if at all) for a car with a paddle shift gearbox and no clutch pedal please?
Hi Andy. It depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you're looking to pass an advanced driving test, you'll be expected to brake first, then change down to your chosen gear after you've finished braking, or towards the end of the braking phase (a little overlap between brake/gear is to be expected). Some of these types of gearbox will, however, automatically change to a lower gear when the revs drop towards tickover speed. This is fine, but there is still an expectation that you will come off the brakes with enough time for the car to get the gear before you turn.
If you're not looking to pass a test based on Roadcraft system I'm more relaxed about overlapping braking & gearchanging. Modern semi-autos will perform seamless, rev-matched downchanges without you having to even take your hands off the wheel. Having said that, I would still look to get down to the correct speed a little earlier, so that I'm in the correct gear before turning & all that's left to do is turn & accelerate
I'll do some videos on automatic and semi-automatic gearboxes at some point.
Sorry but even after watching this video several times I still cannot see why gearchanging while still on the brakes is such a problem, as long as it is not done as in your "how not to" example. Slowing down that early so you can creep along for the last few yards fumbling for a gear is the very definition of clunky driving to this observer. I cannot understand why this method is now apparently standard advice. To my mind as soon as you are off the brakes you should be already in the correct gear and ready to apply power. It is perfectly possible to meld downshifting and braking into one smooth operation and indeed people did this for years. Now it would seem that it is a problem. I am also surprised to hear that rev matching, or heel and toeing, is not a recognised technique. Again, this is something people did for years and the principle is well known, although I admit it has become moribund. However, my 1967 Lotus with its delicate drive line and rubber drive couplings really responds to this method of driving and I have been practising it diligently and am gradually improving. Now I am told I have been wasting my time! I must confess I am slightly deflated after seeing this video as some of the key things I thought I knew have been turned upside down. I don't think I would stand a chance of passing an advanced driving course! Why am I so wrong?
Robert, you're making a fair few incorrect assumptions, the first of which is that avoiding brake/gear overlap is the be-all and end-all of advanced driving. If you've watched the video several times, you'll know I've described the benefits of avoiding overlap, but I've certainly not stated that rev-matching is not a recognised technique. In fact, if you look through my other videos you'll find one on gear changing, which covers rev-matching in some detail. I can understand that you may not personally prefer avoiding overlap, and that's fine for you, but have a look at some of the other techniques in my videos and I'm sure you'll find some stuff you do like. Advanced driving shouldn't be seen as black/white, right/wrong. There are many different techniques to choose from.
Thanks for the reply, and I am watching your other vids with interest. I have a lot to learn!
Ok, great explanation of BGO but how about keeping your feet properly aligned on your pedals and using a better steering technique...aaaa and not slipping the clutch so much and letting it out in two very distinct stages (should be slower at first and gradually letting it out faster and faster, but in one movement)...so really if you are teaching others something make sure you are not doing something else wrong, that they may interpret as correct and integrate into their driving.
You let of the clutch about half way...put some gas in and then quickly release the clutch the rest of the way...pretty sure that's not how it's meant to be done. And you should control the car movement by modulating the gas pedal (or brake) not the clutch. And also you should have perfect control of the steering wheel, not letting it unwind and sliding in your palms...what happens if you hit a pothole, hmm?
if i was behind you, I'd think you are taking the turn at an unnecessary slow speed. with your technique the lowest speed is right before you make the turn, but shouldnt the lowest speed be at the middle of the turn?
Hi Faye,
With systematic driving the idea is to get your speed right for a hazard before taking the gear for the hazard. If a following vehicle is confused by this its usually because the driver is following too close.
Don't forget that this is a demonstration for people who are new to system. With experience you can leave your braking a little later and introduce some "blending" between phases which can help with following traffic.
See my video on "The System of Car Control" for more examples of system being applied to a variety of different hazards.
Smooth shifting and braking is part of testing where I'm from not picked apart like your test? What would you do with someone like me who uses motor to slow down and is adept at shifting without a clutch?? My daddy taught me to drive and at 50yrs I have never ruined a clutch!! I CAN drive anything that uses a clutch- split shifting included....
8:25 what a doofus in the Land Rover
Seen him, planned for him, dealt with him!
All a bit too quick to talk about at the time though.
I fail to see the advantage in this way of driving. I learnt along time ago (50 years or more) to change gear and brake simultaneously using all three pedals, the so called heel and toe. not that the heel is ever used. This means there is no time when the car is either slowing or accelerating or even at a steady speed with the clutch depressed.
To me it feels perfectly natural and second nature, it does not affect my steering or observation.
I feel the police method is very outdated in many ways and is not the most fluent way to progress.
I have to ammend what I wrote earlier as it is not exactly what I was trying to explain. In the braking phase, by changing gear during that time you are ready to drive away once the speed is correct for the manouvre.. I would add that I do not use this method to drive quickly as I am very light on my brakes and adjust my speed with the throttle as much as possible.
One of the things i struggle with is the scenario say you are in a national speed limit and doing 60mph and the speed limit reduces to 30mph, getting the speed down and then in an appropriate gear for the speed before the 30mph sign is passed is quite challenging. The link below is a case in point and you note the 30mph sign is visible on a downhill section, so you can BGOL in this scenario but still a challenge www.google.com/maps/@50.3908716,-4.9386041,3a,75y,357.31h,65.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swqxMYHkRGQoNyAHyNrveoA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You don’t need the speed *and* gear set at the 30 limit sign Frazer - just the speed. As long as you’re down to 30 at the sign, the gear can be taken after entering the speed limit area.
Not using the engine to slow the vehicle is dumb, literally taking force away from yourself
I always travel in a higher gear than I maybe need (like 5th at 30mph) so I can change down gear early before changing direction (so I'd drop down to 3rd from 5th, then from 3rd to 2nd before brake and turn), most of the time I only need to apply very light braking before turning
ua-cam.com/video/zo9HA5HCvvg/v-deo.html