Ah this makes sense, Hopefully they won't be consumable without a warning lol. I'm planning to play my first playthrough of the DLC on NG+7 (RL150) I'm sure it'll go great. I just missed the pain of fighting Sister Friede and actually having a difficult time, this new system does have me sweating a little now though wondering what I've signed myself up for.
Just tell them its a copy and paste job of Bungie's Light system from Destiny. Light level reduces your damage if your bellow it forcing players to grind out the higher level to just play the now even higher HP and damage stats of the new content. BUT light levels DO NOT buff damage past mob you've already cleared, meaning in the previous content you get no advantage for having high Light Level. It is one of the few systems Bungie has that is actually a good idea to fight back power creep... but Bungie being Bungie uses it as an excuses to force players to grind rather then fight power creep.
When I read that yesterday, it almost sounded like the DLC was a separate thing. The resources you have matter, but your level doesn't. It's like a game within a game. Lore reason could be that the Shadowlands are without the influence of gold, so the runes you used to get stronger in the Lands Between are ineffective in this place. Pretty cool way to solve an age old problem. Glad to see them continuing to innovate Edit: I didn't mean your level 5000 character is gonna be useless in the DLC. Just that there is a mechanism going on that effectively changes the damage you do and/or take in the Shadowlands. The lore part is just pure speculation.
doesnt even make sense; how would you meet stat requirements for gear or have increased stamina/equip load/ health or status buildup or anything to do with any build? at least try to have a coffee in the morning before you start communicating with humans friend
@@geert574 Its 40* But no, there are levels, as in another interview they asked him about recommended level for the DLC and he said " between 120s and 150s is ok" So levels matter, but maybe not so much as before inside the DLC area.
@@geert574 maybe there will be "shadow runes" maybe learn to think before responding to a comment about how they don't know what they are talking about
Realistically someone could just cheat in the attack power upgrades, max it out, use good ol' comet azure with some buffs and melt Messmer within the first couple of days
So the DLC will still be tough(even at higher levels) AND we get to level our character & collect/upgrade builds as if it's a brand new game. My god Fromsoft really did improve just when I thought there is no scope left.
They had to do something so many ppl seemed to be way overlevelled for initial run for no reason. I stopped at 120 as the game was largely becoming trivial
@@compostsmurf5519 That is probably because of the new players joining the souls community... It's crazy that they finish the game at RL150+, I ended at 125 like DS3
@@nikvettit’s because of sites like Fextralife and others were over-inflating the difficulty of the game. They pushed the meta to be in the 150-200 range and all the newcomers took that literally, not to mention all the yt vids boasting “fastest way to get runes” and the rune sites letting ppl buy millions for a few bucks. 125 is perfect even in ng+
@@nikvett between 125 and 150 its not a big issue generally speaking they're very similar and I don't see much of a problem either way its the way the stats are balanced that is the issue in terms of hard and soft caps
This could also have another purpose if they decide to add a boss rush mode. With this mechanic they could adapt bosses to be at a level adequate to any player at any level as they did in Sekiro
The fact that From is willing to change up and throw in designs that no other game following on their steps will ever do, is what makes Fromsoftware that great. They really think about the experience
I actually think that if this idea works, TONS of games will copy it. Anything with DLC / new content hat would otherwise get crushed by veterans, e.g. Warframe, WoW, Destiny, Borderlands, etc.
Wish they'd innovate on the caster gameplay design, it's been stagnant since Demon's Souls. Look at the controls for Seals/Staves, 3/4 of the buttons are all wasted dead space that contribute little to nothing for casters.
@@iota-09 Spell-like Ash of Wars Replacing the useless R2 Bonk with a FP-free Spell-like attack. Replace the near useless two-handed block with either an aim function, a quick select spell wheel, or a magical barrier that's strong against attacks of a magical nature.
This is what Bungie dose FOR EVERY SINGLE DLC. Light level goes up... so now you magical do less damage so you need to grind you high light level. But it only reduces your damage so you NEVER get stronger then the mobs your were fighting before. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BUNGIE DOSE
My thoughts too. This can mean that meta range is not disrupted at all, but instead flooded with all the new gear. Which sounds both super exciting and super scary lol
I think they're doing this both for people who follow meta levels and because endgame content in this is absurd with extremely high damage and health pools, especially in co-op
@aiaoi5048 there is pvp at every level. However many people like to cap themselves to keep build diversity up. At level 120 you can't get multiple stats to to the 80 cap. Max level pvp is crazy with everyone using whatever they want as much as they want. I enjoy pvp at 200-300 but most pvp players will stick to the meta level.
@@saladfrogthere is functionally no difference between an actual lvl 150 build and a level 700 "never played a fromsoft game before" weirdo. 60 vigor and capped mainstats are literally the peak of strength in the game. youre going to 2 hit kill those level 700 gremlins either way "level 170" doesnt make sense the enemies arent tradionally levelled you just need to have an actually damage dealing build with enough vigor to live a hit or 2 your level number in itself isnt really relevant in PvE or PvP
@@saladfrog They did worry about it though, hence the mechanic. ER is not the typical Souls game, so to speak. Alot of people (millions of them?) feel proud about their single, high level character and cannot conceive of entering endgame just past two digit levels. I actually wonder what percentage of players even have more than one character. This system is much more for them than for people who know what making a build actually means or why not exceeding meta makes the game overall better. But I would be glad if said system "benefited" a rl100 character the same way it does a rl450. That would be a new achievement on their part.
I told my friend not to waste his time overlevelling at mohgs Palace, they need to have some sorta balance to the dlc or it'd be mostly a cakewalk and not very interesting gameplay wise
I really like this approach. It allows you to enter into the DLC not being overpowered, while also having that stats necessary to wield the new weapons. One of my biggest issues with some of the previous DLCs was them being too easy if you did the main-game first and had a bunch of stats.
It's mainly akin to King Vendrick in DS2. Don't expect a massive overhaul like Level Resets etc. That would be a slap in the face to players because of how the game works. This isn't a Paragon System and certainly not Armored Core 6. In other words... "Sorry that your sl150. Go farm that again for the DLC." As if the Base Game level progression means nothing.
@@TREVORVADER It's pretty much a flex to beat the DLC like the Ringed City before the base game especially with low SLs. Honestly the changes sounds more like wanting to have their cake and eat it too. I still prefer the Super Stronger than base Game type of thing, because being able to trick out and beat the shit out of it with weaker levels is just soooo satisfying.
It was actually a thing I was worried about the DLC too, all those months ago when it was announced. I was worried that Elden Ring DLC’s progression would feel inexistent just like their prior DLCs. Not the biggest issue, but i was certainly a little worried especially considering Elden Ring kinda makes the most out of the progression system in these games (early-midgame at least) I’m very glad Miyazaki and Team considered this, with specific reference to Elden Rings whole “having trouble? Well go away and come back later” type of game design that the early game adopts. Happy to see them incorporate such things into the DLC! Hope to see more of it in their future “RPG” titles
even a trashcan like me can do SL1 runs of the dlc in previous game so vertical progression was never even necessary theyve always been about horizontal progression and different options not the same options but number bigger unga bunga
The way it works in my head is that base game and dlc are separated by “true damage”. In simple terms how I see it is that it doesn’t exactly matter how buffed you are in the base game if upon loading into the dlc with no upgrades you are locked behind a flat number that has several more gates behind it. It means I can have an upward progression when I play and that is what matters, I don’t have to aim for a level cap and that feels amazing. It feels even better that they say it works like Sekiro, because I love Sekiro, please give me more Sekiro fromsoft.
I'm sl401... Explain to my how such a system that isn't like King Vendrick in DS2 will work? This isn't Armored Core 6 where weapons and gear stay stagnant forever at lv1. And of course... Even with a Level Reset... I can still exceed the level in the DLC. You've changed nothing but the beginning. And that is a terrible design philosophy if it means to always reset every player back to lv1 for DLC. But then again... Destiny 2 does this and no one in that community liked it.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 i’m not certain if you’ve played Sekiro, but being judgmental of a system that we don’t have the exact specifications of is jumping the gun a little. In my opinion it isn’t being reset back to level one for every player, it’s mitigating the amount of damage you deal before each boss you overcome. You basically have ‘bindings’ that prevent you from reaching your full potential. I don’t know about you but I’m excited to see how it plays out, it could be balanced poorly sure but I sincerely doubt it. It isn’t like we have the exact numbers but in Sekiro the damage for fights was balanced EXTREMELY well. The pacing was super great and you can’t steam roll or one shot bosses despite any upgrades or damage bonuses you get. I’m simply comparing the dlc to dark souls 3 where the levels you needed to have were around 120 and you would have to have basically completed the game already. Having those enemies at a stagnant high level was challenging sure, but it always meant prep work or maxing your weapon to make the enemies a joke anyway. Comparing these games to destiny 2 is like comparing an amazing dinner like a steak dinner with mashed potatos and everything else you could want (elden ring) to a half filled bag of potato chips (destiny 2). They aren’t the same, also just for the record I haven’t played DS2 before but I was planning on it, wanted to play bloodborne first. Armored core 6 was sick as hell too, I really don’t get where you are coming from but even if I’m wrong about how I assume the elden ring dlc is going to work, dude I’m just excited to play elden ring. I’ll wait and be happy when it comes out, I’ve waited this long for hollow knight silksong and Hades 2, I haven’t complained, the games will be out when they are out and I’m not expecting the second coming of christ from any of them, I’m just expecting good games and I’ll be happy when I get to play any of them.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 well as far as I know its not an actual level reset because you don’t lose anything. I’d imagine you could go back to base game and have the same levels as before. I don’t think I’ve explained it very well, sorry about that.
I really like this, I was already thinking about which character to use for the DLC, and this lowers the impact of that choice, making it an easier choice.
It reminds me of how WoW dealt with high damage numbers from geared players when they first launched the arena in their first expansion burning crusade. There was a new stat introduced called resilience that lowered the damage player characters could do to you. Only in this case it sounds like it’s damage you can do to enemies.
Given Asmongold... Well... You would know how bad that kind of system went down later on. Fake Damage Numbers just to make PvP "feel" better for lower level characters Vs a high level character. It's even worst for PvE. No one likes getting rugged pulled by fake damage numbers.
Yes and no... Because Elden Ring isn't Sekiro. You had to get good or drop the game for Sekiro. Elden Ring lacks that rigidity. And the DLC will not be on par with Sekiro from the start to the end. It's more of King Vendrick. Don't expect a massive Level Up Overhaul. That undoes what the Base Game is built on.
I agree 100%, I think this is exactly what they're doing, and for the reasons you said. Lots of open world games struggle with this problem in general - Borderlands is a good example. It can be irritating to have a side mission that you left, and when you come back it is ludicrously easy because you're overleveled. At the same time, you need progression rewards.
Avoid the hamster wheel issue... This is why forcing Level Resets or Light Level in Destiny 2, fails. Do not disrespect the time and effort players took to be at a level they chose to be content on.
I'm very glad they're doing this. The end game progression in souls games has always stymied my enjoyment a bit. Part of what I love about these games is becoming gradually more powerful thanks to my efforts in exploration or getting experience. For this reason, I rarely play new game plus. I enjoy the process of making a build grow stronger from scratch.
2000+ hours and I've never played NG+ lol. If they made it atleast like DS2 where certain items can only be gotten on NG+ and certain boss fight changes on NG+. The game just becomes too easy.
@@moddedpan4252Elden Rings NG+ is far easier than the initial playthrough. I've had a few buddies who this is their 1st souls like and they all agree that they are having an easier time.
Great video the way that I've always dealt with this flaw that you speak of is I just go into the DLCs underleveled and try to finish my leveling up in the DLC usually using a DLC weapon and that way I still retain some sense of progression but yeah it's something that you have to do intentionally you're kind of gimping yourself
would love to see kosmos on the yggdrasil podcast sometime, he’s one of the better ER lore theorists out there. I think his speculation on the dlc would be interesting
It’s weird how there’s a stigma in the Souls community against going and getting stronger to beat the boss you’re struggling with when that’s literally what the Developers have always intended. “Oh you had an upgraded weapon so your kill doesn’t mean as much” “Oh you where higher level than normal so your kill doesn’t count” “You’re supposed to keep dying till you kill it”
Now that you broke this down even further, I am so excited about this new system they are adding! I'm so happy they are innovating on their core gameplay loop in an expansion no less!
My guess, considering how many design elements of ER are borrowed from DSII, is that this progression will be something like the Giant’s Souls being necessary to deal real damage to Vendrick. The more of these special items you collect, you get a damage multiplier which is only active in the DLC and not during PvP.
I assumed it meant the “spend souls to directly increase your offensive power” mechanic that sekiro had (unlocked thru the pot nobles I think?) rather than the boss memory attack-ups. So like, this new “shadow” zone would have “shadow” levels that increase your attack just within the dlc, an offensive power modifier separate from your strength etc stats that affect the main game, so that they can scale difficulty based on that just within the dlc
An interesting choice to have multiple level-up systems in different areas. Obviously this will help to keep the DLC as difficult as need be. But this feature could see great use in other games
It's a dumb ass system, to be honest. Ever heard of Light Level in Destiny 2? All your hard work for NOTHING. As the next season rolls by. Don't waste my time by giving me 5 different hamster wheels. From a game designer view... There better be a damn good reason as to why any player should re level over and over again just to access core content. You don't break up the Leveling System like that. It's rule 101 for all Leveling Systems. Imagine playing Skyrim but you have to re level your Skills every time you enter a new province under different Jarls. It's not bold. It's not innovative. It's simply idiotic and foolish. (This is Elden Ring. Not Armored Core 6. If they wanted that kind of system, another game would service it better. NOT A DLC from a game with a long standing Level Up System. This isn't even Paragon too.) Paragon is a better system than having to redo progression from the ground up.
The reasons are obvious, if you're levelled past the level the DLC expects you to have, you now don't dominate everything immediately. On the other hand, completing the DLC does not make you overlevelled for the main game, Final boss, stuff like that. I recently got to the DLC of DS3, and I felt conflicted about not defeating Soul of Cinder before I access it, it makes sense for that boss to be the last one I fight, but I also don't want him to be too easy. I had to pick my poison. With two separate levelling systems, that can be avoided. @@absolstoryoffiction6615
I have quite literally never done the whole “oh this boss is hard, guess I should go elsewhere.” My response is bash my head into the wall until the wall crumbles.
Arise, ye Tarnished, thy time is nigh, to forge anew the chorus of the cosmos, grace reborn in the crucible of thy trials. Behold the journey of ascension from the forlorn abyss to the sublime dominion of stars. Thou art the nexus between dust and divinity, the covenant of light's resurgence, the heralds of the Erdtree's hallowed revival. Arise and let the shattered world behold thy radiance reborn.
I can’t wait! I think this is a fantastic idea. What a fantastic way to make the DLC feel like a fresh experience. I’m still going to do a new playthrough from scratch leading up to release.
This is just gonna be giant souls from dark souls 2. I forget his name but that depressed king boss you find wandering around his room. He’s super resistant to damage but every giant soul you collect negates a bit of that damage resistance. Once you have them all, he’s no different than a normal boss. I imagine they’re going to recycle that system for the dlc. All enemies and bosses will likely have some kind of shadow “armor” or something. Maybe a nerfed version of needing the transient curse for the ghosts in dark souls 1. Then you go around collecting a new type of item and every one you get will decrease a bit of that armor/damage negation. Once you’ve found them all, it’ll probably be similar to the base game and your op builds will be op again. Just my guess but I think it makes sense
@@SpottedHares i mean I’ve played Destiny. Light level is pretty much just a standard item level thing from most MMOs. That could be what they’re doing here but, at least to me, it would make more sense for them to do something they’ve done in the past rather than something entirely new. Plus there’s the issue with invalidating previous builds and gear unless they make all gear upgradable to this new system… and the video already went into issues with that way of doing this
No matter what trouble we were in during our journey through the Lands Between, Marika was out there supporting our efforts through our gradually restored Grace and strength. But going to the Land of Shadow means going beyond where she can help us, and now we will need to find new ways to overcome the challenges put before us. Such is the interpretation I believe for what's going on here. Gonna be very interesting to see how it works gameplay-wise.
So, what I'm getting out of this is that for the DLC we'll start out as essentially a tarnished +0, and we'll end off the game as a tarnished +10 or even a tarnished +15 (i.e. normal damage or higher). I'm quite stoked if this is the case, it'd be a very interesting system for progression.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this power system replaced upgrade materials entirely. I really want to try out a bunch of new weapons in the dlc. Hell, there's a few I haven't tried in the base game. But having to grind out Stones for a weapon that might not be worth it sucks. It's not like progression would be invalidated, since you'd still have stat scaling.
This is very likely a gross oversimplification so take with a grain of salt. But this sounds like what they are primarily trying to do to cull hyper-optimized end-game builds is a damage cap. Basically, it sounds like everyone regardless of level will start the DLC with a hard cap on how much damage you can do. High level characters will feel weak, low level character will feel impossibly weak. If you want to do more damage you need to kill bosses in order to get the item that miyazaki was talking about that raises the damage cap. It doesn't sound like they will directly alter any builds' stats, the "damage cap" that i theorize is being implemented is just going to hard prevent your build from outputting until you uncap your damage.
im thinking unless they give you a shortcut to the dlc for new players there won't be low levels besides challenge runs. and if they do add a short cut, then the mechanic will let low level players compete as well without suffering
Think of it how Bungie dose it, since soft seems to just be copying them on this. If your light level is 90 you do 10% less damage to a level 100 mob, but if your light level is 101 or 10million you do exactly the same damage 100%. Your level past doesn't benefit you but having level under will hurt you. In the DLc you most likely will get either DLC specific xp(very unlikely) or a time that add a phantom +1 to your stat or just a boring +% to hp or damage. lets pretend this DLC powerhas a copy and paste stat buff and you base level but ONLY while in the DLC. If you have lets say 60hp level base and 39hp level phantom, you would add the base level scaling to the phantom level scaling. In the base you game you would have 1900 hp, but in the DLC you would have 3,302 hp. granted the real numbers and real scaling could be different then just a copy and paste of the base game.
This. This over here is why, after 2 years, I have yet to get into NG+, because I do not want to skip anything that can or will be available with my beloved character and all the effort I put into its progression. Knowing that there will still be a sense of progression in the DLC puts me at ease that I will not miss anything by “rushing” the base content or being overpowered.
I was perfectly fine with dlc being a coasting phase for builds based more on flavor than sl. The 'problem' being addressed really hasn't been a big deal for myself or my friends in the past, as it doesn't take long for everyone to figure out the ideal level to start dlc's. Unless you're really going HAM for no reason, most people don't experience the crisis of being so high level the dlc is a cakewalk.
(Just read the title and thumbnail) i think it will be the other way around, we will just get stronger, it would make more sense lorewise for we to get weaker, but it would be underwhealming for me, at least, to be nerfed.
I hope they keep this design in whatever else they release after the DLC. And on a kindve related note I like the idea of stats just giving you ACCESS to abilities and weapons and gear rather than having it affect your overall damage output. I feel like stat access to skills/weapons/gear should be more utility based and you only really worry about accessories to buff overall damage/number/effect output (ex: I’m choosing to upgrade strength not because it’ll boost my damage but because it’ll give me access to a sword with a particular moveset and secondary/elemental traits). In this way (speculative) whatever the equivalent to Sekiro “memories” is in SotET, is kindve giving you raw power upgrades that you may or may not want to consume. And your stats would only be of concern in regards to weight management, hp/sp/fp pool, and skill/weapon access. Everything else would just be monster and boss knowledge and trial and error like every other soulslike. You potentially could min-max more efficiently as well in the DLC area because this sort of progression system, only worrying about base stat requirements for particular weapons/skills and then dumping everything else VIG/END/MND If it works as described ofc.
I would love to know what lvl your Carian Royal Knight and his weapons are cuz that looks fun af man! The video was great too, thanks on the off chance ya read this!
Really hyped for this. Right now I’m enjoying Lies of P, but I def miss Miyazaki’s excellent level design and art style in general. It’s all dark early Bloodborne alleys so far. Still the best 3D soulslike I’ve played along with Nioh 2.
Ie they are going to add new stats that only work in the dlc areas to increase attack power for that area only / defense for that area only. So you could start that area with lower or higher builds and still feel a sense of progression.
I'm glad they're taking an approach like this, I wasn't a fan of the scaling in later areas and I generally don't like the feeling of being over or under leveled. Sekiro is far and beyond their best experience when it comes to this. They can balance the DLC around the limited and specifically placed damage upgrades rather than expecting everyone to be overleveled
I sort of figured it was an extension of the base games philosophy of "This place too hard, I go elsewhere". In the DLC it wouldn't work nearly as well normally because you'd be going in post-Mohg- a point where levelling contributes significantly less to your power AND your gear is definitely almost fully upgraded.
Yeah I think the only reason Sekiro didn't get a DLC was cuz they wanna make a sequel. Like Ratatoskr pointed out in the previous video on Miyazaki's interview, Fromsoft is currently working on atleast 3-5 projects. Who knows maybe Sekiro 2 is also one. Let's not forget that game won GOTY even before their success with Elden Ring so they know it's importance. They know all their major IPs got sequels & DLCs except only Sekiro & they know there is demand for a sequel of Sekiro. It will come one day. That's for sure 100%
Reminder that invasions take into account player lvl and weapon lvl so if they did increase weapon lvls. You would invade/ invaded by people of similiar lvls. A +6 straight sword wont invade people with +10 weapons.
I'm assuming since they've separated PvE/P balancing it won't really interfere with the current system for invasions, seeing as how reds don't interact with the environment anyway
I am so glad they thought about this. Having skills and attributes that develop similar to Sekiro would be a really cool addition! I was worried that id be too overlevelled for the dlc.
I’ll say this about the DLCs, sure I’ll have a build ready, but a lot of times the new gear in the DLCs is just so good that I have to modify my build to accompany at least 1 item
In other DLC's the lack of progression is less of an issue because of their length. Ringed City DLC you maybe would do at lvl 100ish, and buffing yourself to 110 may be helpful but it wasn't necessary. Where as if this DLC is going to be roughly 3/4 the size of the main game, this different level up system is basically a requirement in order for the game to function. I hope this helps solve the age old question for new players of "do i play the DLC before or after completing the main game?" The problem with previous souls games is that In order for the game to have a complete well rounded story by the end it's nice to finish the DLC before fighting the final boss of the main game, normally because it adds context and gravity to the final boss and makes the ending more satisfying. However doing the DLC first often ends up over leveling you for the actual final boss of the main game such as in Bloodborne where the DLC bosses would be insanely hard and then the final bosses of the main game would be a complete cake walk. If you wanted to, you could complete the final boss of the main game and then play the DLC, however that means that you lack context for the final boss making the fight less impactful. essentially making you choose between a satisfying story or gameplay experience. I think this new idea of separating the two is fantastic because it means you could put the main game on pause, do the DLC, and then come back to the main game without being over leveled for the final boss and getting the best of both scenarios.
Or perhaps regardless of your character level, in the shadow lands you start “fresh” but with your build. So it might not even matter what level you are, high or low. But this is just a quick speculation
Obviously we don't have all the details yet, but to me at least it sounds like this new system is going to be a damage multiplier on top of the stats you already have.
This new difficulty scaling mechanic sounds very interesting. I just hope it doesn't affect the way difficulty scales with NG+. I put over 600 hours into Elden Ring and I have plenty of save files backed up from NG+ to NG+4 ready to experience the DLC at various levels of difficulty. I would hate for each experience to be about the same or similar because of this new mechanic. I truly hope NG+ difficulty still scales the same in this new DLC as it has always done in From Software's past games.
This is something I've been contemplating ever since the DS2 DLCs. The progression in the base game feels so tailored for that content than the moment you go to the DLC areas, you're either too OP or quite underpowered, and there's not many areas to get those levels or a way to not balance the difficulty. This may not be a perfect solution, and I see some detractors already, but I welcome a custom made progression to increase the challenge of the game. I really hope they don't hold back.
I don't like the sound of that. I have put time and effort into a high level character for a purpose and If people want this challenge they can easily just do so by not excessively leveling up. The high level compensates for my lack of skill and time (that I am reasonably willing and able to put into it). I've played Sekiro and it's a absolutely gorgeous game; I managed to defeat bosses like Owl Father and Isshin but the experience was not enjoyable for me. Guess we'll have to wait and see how this mechanic turns out in the end.
It's just like Bungie and Their Light system, on paper you can say it combats power creep. In reality it holds your hands and drags you to play content to get damage to compensate for the dev just dumping more hp and damage into the mobs.
I like how Fromsoft thinks what Elden ring really encapsulate. They think the feeling of expansiveness and option to try other thing to overcome challenges - this is what an open world is supposed to be! And they want same feeling in its DLC too.
My interpretation is that they have created a separate character power vector that is exclusively acquired, utilized and customized within the DLC; effectively de-coupling power vectors already present in the base game. Doing this facilitates tighter control over their encounters, pacing, storytelling and simultaneously negating issues arising from incoming characters that may possess power distributed across an enormous range; i.e. hundreds of rune levels, gear, items, etc.
Makes sense. People who are at pvp meta levels in ER 120-150 will probably feel the same or slightly harder challenge than end game content. This change seems more for the people who hit level 300 and stuff with near maxed out stats and equipment. This way they don't just hop into the DLC and one shot everything in their path.
I hope they are referring to "high level" as level 300+ and not 150 lol - Personally I got my lv 389 dual wielding katana Samurai ready and don´t know what my samurai lacks, he really is perfect imo, thats why I fear I am too op for the DLC.
I wish the Great Runes in the base game could of been that equivalent 'super upgrade'. Will be glad if this DLC upgrade system goes beyond just upgrading stats and fundementally changes the game too. Actually, I'm reminded of Human+ and OP-I in Armored Core. The 'expansions' would be designed around having those super powers. However, you could still play through the expansions without it, thus keeping it difficult if you want..... Tbh, it is surprising that the Souls games never adopted a similar feature for its DLCs.
Could be similar to the mechanic in God of War Ragnarok: Valhalla's DLC where the power scaling completely changes, and puts you on a seperate path to become stronger while keeping your normal attack power in the main story.
I love the feeling of getting stronger, which is why I prefer starting a NG over going to NG+. It just tickles my brain to see numbers go up, so I'm glad I'll be able to have that in the DLC.
Perhaps it's not a character mechanic but a world mechanic - you can do certain things such as kill side bosses which somehow decreases the power level of the main bosses (which could easily be explained with some lore)
FROM dlcs usually dont do much to improve your endgame power, instead giving more variety with new weapons/spells. Im kind of seeing this news as a bandaid for the steep endgame difficulty spike that became a point of criticism, even if it's exclusive to the dlc.
The idea of offering earned power-ups that only function within The Shadow Lands seems like a very smart idea. In addition, I think allowing players to down-level their character to a minimum of level 125 while giving a Lord's Rune (valued at 50,000 runes) per level forfeit in this manner would also be smart because it would relieve players of their worry of being too over-leveled to fully enjoy challenge of the DLC.
1 thing I wonder is if this system will exist on top of the existing leveling or be entirely seperate, as to say will the DLC ignore your current power level and the only way to become more powerful is with the new leveling system in the DLC area, or will having level 25/10 weapons and max stats still help in the DLC area honestly I hope its the first one, this would put everyone on a even playing field day 1 just like when a new souls game comes out, wouldnt matter if you're new game+1,258 with 99s in all stats are just strong enough to kill mohg to access the DLC at all, one of my favorite parts of fromsoft games that I think we can all agree on is how everyone is given the same experience, we all start at the same power level, DLCs in souls games have always missed that part because you could enter the DLC in a new playthrough at level 50 or walk in on an already completed playthrough at level 500 and those 2 experiences would be wildly different
I’m level 713 for a reason I like to steamroll through everything PVE and PVP it took me over 6 months farming players in the lands between to earn this power. If what you’re saying is true this is bad news for players like myself that enjoy 1 shot builds
im seeing a few people bring this playstyle up and like them you seem to be forgetting that you still had to get that strong in base game. they implied there are weaker bosses to get these powers from who won't be limiting your power level, this is what it sounded like to me
So to say it in short; your damage output will be very low in the Land of Shadow - but you get to keep all your gear & levels? I'd simply call this an "Area Skill". You have to level the new skill to do real damage in the new area. Super cool remedy for adding in more end-game content. So enemy attacks will probably hit like a truck in order to smash your high-level Vigor & endgame armor rating (since it isn't nerfing our attributes & gear, just our damage output). We'd still have our fat Stamina bar + FP, allowing us to use hella spells/weapon arts & hella dodging crazy enemy combo's - which will make for some WILD fighting. This is gunna be dope.
People still seem confused. It'll be like the giant memories in Dark Souls 2 that you need to hurt Vendrick.
Ah this makes sense, Hopefully they won't be consumable without a warning lol.
I'm planning to play my first playthrough of the DLC on NG+7 (RL150) I'm sure it'll go great.
I just missed the pain of fighting Sister Friede and actually having a difficult time, this new system
does have me sweating a little now though wondering what I've signed myself up for.
Just tell them its a copy and paste job of Bungie's Light system from Destiny. Light level reduces your damage if your bellow it forcing players to grind out the higher level to just play the now even higher HP and damage stats of the new content. BUT light levels DO NOT buff damage past mob you've already cleared, meaning in the previous content you get no advantage for having high Light Level. It is one of the few systems Bungie has that is actually a good idea to fight back power creep... but Bungie being Bungie uses it as an excuses to force players to grind rather then fight power creep.
@@SpottedHares Boy that means RL1 just got to another level
So what you're saying is it's key items we get from bosses that increase our overall power in the dlc alone?
@@WokeandProudThat solution makes the most sense and jives with what Miyazaki said
When I read that yesterday, it almost sounded like the DLC was a separate thing. The resources you have matter, but your level doesn't. It's like a game within a game. Lore reason could be that the Shadowlands are without the influence of gold, so the runes you used to get stronger in the Lands Between are ineffective in this place. Pretty cool way to solve an age old problem. Glad to see them continuing to innovate
Edit: I didn't mean your level 5000 character is gonna be useless in the DLC. Just that there is a mechanism going on that effectively changes the damage you do and/or take in the Shadowlands. The lore part is just pure speculation.
I'll just keep the 50 bucks then 😂
doesnt even make sense; how would you meet stat requirements for gear or have increased stamina/equip load/ health or status buildup or anything to do with any build?
at least try to have a coffee in the morning before you start communicating with humans friend
@@geert574 Its 40*
But no, there are levels, as in another interview they asked him about recommended level for the DLC and he said " between 120s and 150s is ok"
So levels matter, but maybe not so much as before inside the DLC area.
@@geert574 how do people like you even end up on this channel 2 years after release of a fromsoft game
@@geert574 maybe there will be "shadow runes" maybe learn to think before responding to a comment about how they don't know what they are talking about
That triple kill at the end was sick.
360 no-scope collateral
Desperate hail Mary that just happened to slap harder then my grandpa.
Works only against people who mash out of hitstun.
I'm telling y'all 3 day after the dlc someone will have already posted a video "mesmmer the impaler one shot"
And 99% of the people who do will be lying and just using clickbait. Probably some asinine multi buff thing that requires level 350 to pull off.
he's immune to Magic Damage.... Also Golden Vow won't work in the Shadowlands
Or "Messmer the Impaler Kung fu only run" like the "butt slam only run" they did in the base game😂
@@destinsather9757ouch
Realistically someone could just cheat in the attack power upgrades, max it out, use good ol' comet azure with some buffs and melt Messmer within the first couple of days
So the DLC will still be tough(even at higher levels) AND we get to level our character & collect/upgrade builds as if it's a brand new game. My god Fromsoft really did improve just when I thought there is no scope left.
They had to do something so many ppl seemed to be way overlevelled for initial run for no reason. I stopped at 120 as the game was largely becoming trivial
@@compostsmurf5519 go into NG+
@@compostsmurf5519 That is probably because of the new players joining the souls community... It's crazy that they finish the game at RL150+, I ended at 125 like DS3
@@nikvettit’s because of sites like Fextralife and others were over-inflating the difficulty of the game. They pushed the meta to be in the 150-200 range and all the newcomers took that literally, not to mention all the yt vids boasting “fastest way to get runes” and the rune sites letting ppl buy millions for a few bucks. 125 is perfect even in ng+
@@nikvett between 125 and 150 its not a big issue generally speaking they're very similar and I don't see much of a problem either way its the way the stats are balanced that is the issue in terms of hard and soft caps
That nier replicant music at the start on the backround is legendary
The synchronicity. I just went back to listening to Emil Sacrifice and Kaine Salvation at work before I saw this video in my recommended.
would you happen know the music playing at 3:36 ? I have heard that somewhere but cannot find it and driving me nuts not knowing. Much appreciated
@@dumplinsIt is dark reality from kings field
@@atillaapak7273 ua-cam.com/video/r5dgIkoaNxc/v-deo.htmlsi=r40Laz0hOkpvssaP A FromSoftware classic track
Went straight to the comments to check if anyone else noticed the music! Love it
That tripple kill had to be intensely satisfying
This is making me more excited not just for the dlc but for their future games.
This could also have another purpose if they decide to add a boss rush mode. With this mechanic they could adapt bosses to be at a level adequate to any player at any level as they did in Sekiro
The fact that From is willing to change up and throw in designs that no other game following on their steps will ever do, is what makes Fromsoftware that great. They really think about the experience
I actually think that if this idea works, TONS of games will copy it. Anything with DLC / new content hat would otherwise get crushed by veterans, e.g. Warframe, WoW, Destiny, Borderlands, etc.
Wish they'd innovate on the caster gameplay design, it's been stagnant since Demon's Souls.
Look at the controls for Seals/Staves, 3/4 of the buttons are all wasted dead space that contribute little to nothing for casters.
@@Battleguild adding more staff ashes of war would be a step in the right direction
@@iota-09
Spell-like Ash of Wars
Replacing the useless R2 Bonk with a FP-free Spell-like attack.
Replace the near useless two-handed block with either an aim function, a quick select spell wheel, or a magical barrier that's strong against attacks of a magical nature.
This is what Bungie dose FOR EVERY SINGLE DLC. Light level goes up... so now you magical do less damage so you need to grind you high light level. But it only reduces your damage so you NEVER get stronger then the mobs your were fighting before. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BUNGIE DOSE
That's good. You might be able to keep your own level for pvp but still be able to get stronger to deal with the end game.
My thoughts too. This can mean that meta range is not disrupted at all, but instead flooded with all the new gear. Which sounds both super exciting and super scary lol
I think they're doing this both for people who follow meta levels and because endgame content in this is absurd with extremely high damage and health pools, especially in co-op
me with SL300 but still gets blue ring summons : 🗿🗿🗿
@aiaoi5048 there is pvp at every level. However many people like to cap themselves to keep build diversity up. At level 120 you can't get multiple stats to to the 80 cap. Max level pvp is crazy with everyone using whatever they want as much as they want. I enjoy pvp at 200-300 but most pvp players will stick to the meta level.
Makes the game too easy
That would be extremely smart, I was worried to be too strong on a stats aspect, so I hope it will be like that in order to suffer on big bosses
@@saladfrogmade a level 300 spartan 😂🫣
@@saladfrogthere is functionally no difference between an actual lvl 150 build and a level 700 "never played a fromsoft game before" weirdo.
60 vigor and capped mainstats are literally the peak of strength in the game.
youre going to 2 hit kill those level 700 gremlins either way
"level 170" doesnt make sense the enemies arent tradionally levelled you just need to have an actually damage dealing build with enough vigor to live a hit or 2
your level number in itself isnt really relevant in PvE or PvP
@@saladfrog They did worry about it though, hence the mechanic. ER is not the typical Souls game, so to speak. Alot of people (millions of them?) feel proud about their single, high level character and cannot conceive of entering endgame just past two digit levels. I actually wonder what percentage of players even have more than one character. This system is much more for them than for people who know what making a build actually means or why not exceeding meta makes the game overall better.
But I would be glad if said system "benefited" a rl100 character the same way it does a rl450. That would be a new achievement on their part.
I told my friend not to waste his time overlevelling at mohgs Palace, they need to have some sorta balance to the dlc or it'd be mostly a cakewalk and not very interesting gameplay wise
@@kimlee6643 they should just delete everyone over 180 and hard level cap 180
I really like this approach. It allows you to enter into the DLC not being overpowered, while also having that stats necessary to wield the new weapons.
One of my biggest issues with some of the previous DLCs was them being too easy if you did the main-game first and had a bunch of stats.
Eh, I think the DLCs of all the Soulsbourne games are still challenging enough
I thought even over leveled that the DS3 DLC was difficult.
I don’t need some artificial difficulty nerfs making it a chore for me
It's mainly akin to King Vendrick in DS2. Don't expect a massive overhaul like Level Resets etc.
That would be a slap in the face to players because of how the game works. This isn't a Paragon System and certainly not Armored Core 6.
In other words... "Sorry that your sl150. Go farm that again for the DLC."
As if the Base Game level progression means nothing.
@@TREVORVADER It's pretty much a flex to beat the DLC like the Ringed City before the base game especially with low SLs.
Honestly the changes sounds more like wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
I still prefer the Super Stronger than base Game type of thing, because being able to trick out and beat the shit out of it with weaker levels is just soooo satisfying.
So basically, everything in the DLC is Vendrick. Dark Souls 2 2 strikes again.
If only they were venderick in lore and world awarness too....
No, it'll be nothing like ds2. It'll actually be good. Like dark souls 3 2
@Kervixon so, boring? No thanks.
@loubloom1941 bro talking as if he ever played ds2
No, It's Elden Ring 1 2.
An interesting proposal to make exploration sound more awesome! Looking forward to this for sure
All hail the age of milking the DLC trailer! 🙌🙌🙌
At least it's better than one PNG. lol
@@TheMuddlerman
@@TheMuddler nah man these youtubers milked that PNG too. I've watched hour long analysis videos on that one image lol.
@@thewal1ofsleepNo there isn't, where did you hear that?
uh no this video isnt about the trailer, but the interview
It was actually a thing I was worried about the DLC too, all those months ago when it was announced. I was worried that Elden Ring DLC’s progression would feel inexistent just like their prior DLCs. Not the biggest issue, but i was certainly a little worried especially considering Elden Ring kinda makes the most out of the progression system in these games (early-midgame at least)
I’m very glad Miyazaki and Team considered this, with specific reference to Elden Rings whole “having trouble? Well go away and come back later” type of game design that the early game adopts.
Happy to see them incorporate such things into the DLC! Hope to see more of it in their future “RPG” titles
even a trashcan like me can do SL1 runs of the dlc in previous game so vertical progression was never even necessary
theyve always been about horizontal progression and different options not the same options but number bigger unga bunga
Damn, now my friends are going to bully me into doing RL1 + DLC level 0.
The way it works in my head is that base game and dlc are separated by “true damage”. In simple terms how I see it is that it doesn’t exactly matter how buffed you are in the base game if upon loading into the dlc with no upgrades you are locked behind a flat number that has several more gates behind it. It means I can have an upward progression when I play and that is what matters, I don’t have to aim for a level cap and that feels amazing. It feels even better that they say it works like Sekiro, because I love Sekiro, please give me more Sekiro fromsoft.
I'm sl401... Explain to my how such a system that isn't like King Vendrick in DS2 will work?
This isn't Armored Core 6 where weapons and gear stay stagnant forever at lv1.
And of course... Even with a Level Reset... I can still exceed the level in the DLC. You've changed nothing but the beginning.
And that is a terrible design philosophy if it means to always reset every player back to lv1 for DLC.
But then again... Destiny 2 does this and no one in that community liked it.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 i’m not certain if you’ve played Sekiro, but being judgmental of a system that we don’t have the exact specifications of is jumping the gun a little. In my opinion it isn’t being reset back to level one for every player, it’s mitigating the amount of damage you deal before each boss you overcome. You basically have ‘bindings’ that prevent you from reaching your full potential. I don’t know about you but I’m excited to see how it plays out, it could be balanced poorly sure but I sincerely doubt it. It isn’t like we have the exact numbers but in Sekiro the damage for fights was balanced EXTREMELY well. The pacing was super great and you can’t steam roll or one shot bosses despite any upgrades or damage bonuses you get. I’m simply comparing the dlc to dark souls 3 where the levels you needed to have were around 120 and you would have to have basically completed the game already. Having those enemies at a stagnant high level was challenging sure, but it always meant prep work or maxing your weapon to make the enemies a joke anyway. Comparing these games to destiny 2 is like comparing an amazing dinner like a steak dinner with mashed potatos and everything else you could want (elden ring) to a half filled bag of potato chips (destiny 2). They aren’t the same, also just for the record I haven’t played DS2 before but I was planning on it, wanted to play bloodborne first. Armored core 6 was sick as hell too, I really don’t get where you are coming from but even if I’m wrong about how I assume the elden ring dlc is going to work, dude I’m just excited to play elden ring. I’ll wait and be happy when it comes out, I’ve waited this long for hollow knight silksong and Hades 2, I haven’t complained, the games will be out when they are out and I’m not expecting the second coming of christ from any of them, I’m just expecting good games and I’ll be happy when I get to play any of them.
@@team4star1
It's like Vendrick DS2. That kind of "rebalancing" is what I prefer over the "reset everyone's level" that some people have said.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 well as far as I know its not an actual level reset because you don’t lose anything. I’d imagine you could go back to base game and have the same levels as before. I don’t think I’ve explained it very well, sorry about that.
I really like this, I was already thinking about which character to use for the DLC, and this lowers the impact of that choice, making it an easier choice.
It reminds me of how WoW dealt with high damage numbers from geared players when they first launched the arena in their first expansion burning crusade. There was a new stat introduced called resilience that lowered the damage player characters could do to you. Only in this case it sounds like it’s damage you can do to enemies.
Given Asmongold... Well... You would know how bad that kind of system went down later on.
Fake Damage Numbers just to make PvP "feel" better for lower level characters Vs a high level character.
It's even worst for PvE. No one likes getting rugged pulled by fake damage numbers.
As someone who has played Sekiro before numerous times, this is a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. This is going to be good.
Yes and no... Because Elden Ring isn't Sekiro.
You had to get good or drop the game for Sekiro.
Elden Ring lacks that rigidity. And the DLC will not be on par with Sekiro from the start to the end.
It's more of King Vendrick. Don't expect a massive Level Up Overhaul. That undoes what the Base Game is built on.
I agree 100%, I think this is exactly what they're doing, and for the reasons you said. Lots of open world games struggle with this problem in general - Borderlands is a good example. It can be irritating to have a side mission that you left, and when you come back it is ludicrously easy because you're overleveled. At the same time, you need progression rewards.
Avoid the hamster wheel issue... This is why forcing Level Resets or Light Level in Destiny 2, fails.
Do not disrespect the time and effort players took to be at a level they chose to be content on.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 yeah good point
I'm very glad they're doing this. The end game progression in souls games has always stymied my enjoyment a bit. Part of what I love about these games is becoming gradually more powerful thanks to my efforts in exploration or getting experience.
For this reason, I rarely play new game plus. I enjoy the process of making a build grow stronger from scratch.
ng+ is always boring as hell, i just start a fresh save every run
2000+ hours and I've never played NG+ lol. If they made it atleast like DS2 where certain items can only be gotten on NG+ and certain boss fight changes on NG+. The game just becomes too easy.
@@moddedpan4252Elden Rings NG+ is far easier than the initial playthrough. I've had a few buddies who this is their 1st souls like and they all agree that they are having an easier time.
Great video the way that I've always dealt with this flaw that you speak of is I just go into the DLCs underleveled and try to finish my leveling up in the DLC usually using a DLC weapon and that way I still retain some sense of progression but yeah it's something that you have to do intentionally you're kind of gimping yourself
Babe wake up, Ratotaskr posted another hit video!
Im awake 😘
would love to see kosmos on the yggdrasil podcast sometime, he’s one of the better ER lore theorists out there. I think his speculation on the dlc would be interesting
It’s weird how there’s a stigma in the Souls community against going and getting stronger to beat the boss you’re struggling with when that’s literally what the Developers have always intended.
“Oh you had an upgraded weapon so your kill doesn’t mean as much”
“Oh you where higher level than normal so your kill doesn’t count”
“You’re supposed to keep dying till you kill it”
Now that you broke this down even further, I am so excited about this new system they are adding! I'm so happy they are innovating on their core gameplay loop in an expansion no less!
My guess, considering how many design elements of ER are borrowed from DSII, is that this progression will be something like the Giant’s Souls being necessary to deal real damage to Vendrick. The more of these special items you collect, you get a damage multiplier which is only active in the DLC and not during PvP.
I assumed it meant the “spend souls to directly increase your offensive power” mechanic that sekiro had (unlocked thru the pot nobles I think?) rather than the boss memory attack-ups.
So like, this new “shadow” zone would have “shadow” levels that increase your attack just within the dlc, an offensive power modifier separate from your strength etc stats that affect the main game, so that they can scale difficulty based on that just within the dlc
An interesting choice to have multiple level-up systems in different areas. Obviously this will help to keep the DLC as difficult as need be. But this feature could see great use in other games
It's a dumb ass system, to be honest.
Ever heard of Light Level in Destiny 2? All your hard work for NOTHING. As the next season rolls by.
Don't waste my time by giving me 5 different hamster wheels.
From a game designer view... There better be a damn good reason as to why any player should re level over and over again just to access core content.
You don't break up the Leveling System like that. It's rule 101 for all Leveling Systems.
Imagine playing Skyrim but you have to re level your Skills every time you enter a new province under different Jarls.
It's not bold. It's not innovative. It's simply idiotic and foolish.
(This is Elden Ring. Not Armored Core 6. If they wanted that kind of system, another game would service it better. NOT A DLC from a game with a long standing Level Up System. This isn't even Paragon too.)
Paragon is a better system than having to redo progression from the ground up.
The reasons are obvious, if you're levelled past the level the DLC expects you to have, you now don't dominate everything immediately. On the other hand, completing the DLC does not make you overlevelled for the main game, Final boss, stuff like that.
I recently got to the DLC of DS3, and I felt conflicted about not defeating Soul of Cinder before I access it, it makes sense for that boss to be the last one I fight, but I also don't want him to be too easy. I had to pick my poison.
With two separate levelling systems, that can be avoided. @@absolstoryoffiction6615
I have quite literally never done the whole “oh this boss is hard, guess I should go elsewhere.” My response is bash my head into the wall until the wall crumbles.
Eldenro: Shadow of the Erdtree Die Twice
Based on that hunter, dancer and monk like character. I think there are new characters pre-set on the char creation.
Honestly wouldnt hate this idea, would be interesting
I would pay $100 for Sekiro 2
I like the kings field music in the background
Arise, ye Tarnished, thy time is nigh, to forge anew the chorus of the cosmos, grace reborn in the crucible of thy trials. Behold the journey of ascension from the forlorn abyss to the sublime dominion of stars. Thou art the nexus between dust and divinity, the covenant of light's resurgence, the heralds of the Erdtree's hallowed revival. Arise and let the shattered world behold thy radiance reborn.
This is great news. I was worried my lvl 170 char would be too strong in NG but now I am relieved.
I can’t wait! I think this is a fantastic idea. What a fantastic way to make the DLC feel like a fresh experience. I’m still going to do a new playthrough from scratch leading up to release.
I appreciate the King’s Field IV track use, always pleasing to listen to
This is just gonna be giant souls from dark souls 2. I forget his name but that depressed king boss you find wandering around his room. He’s super resistant to damage but every giant soul you collect negates a bit of that damage resistance. Once you have them all, he’s no different than a normal boss. I imagine they’re going to recycle that system for the dlc. All enemies and bosses will likely have some kind of shadow “armor” or something. Maybe a nerfed version of needing the transient curse for the ghosts in dark souls 1. Then you go around collecting a new type of item and every one you get will decrease a bit of that armor/damage negation. Once you’ve found them all, it’ll probably be similar to the base game and your op builds will be op again. Just my guess but I think it makes sense
Look up Bungie's Light system from Destiny. it like soft just copied Bungie homework.
@@SpottedHares i mean I’ve played Destiny. Light level is pretty much just a standard item level thing from most MMOs. That could be what they’re doing here but, at least to me, it would make more sense for them to do something they’ve done in the past rather than something entirely new. Plus there’s the issue with invalidating previous builds and gear unless they make all gear upgradable to this new system… and the video already went into issues with that way of doing this
No matter what trouble we were in during our journey through the Lands Between, Marika was out there supporting our efforts through our gradually restored Grace and strength. But going to the Land of Shadow means going beyond where she can help us, and now we will need to find new ways to overcome the challenges put before us. Such is the interpretation I believe for what's going on here. Gonna be very interesting to see how it works gameplay-wise.
That Carian Knight build SLAPS!!!!!
Who else feels like restarting the whole game a couple days before the dlc comes out? omggg
yeah i gotta to warm up the muscles
So, what I'm getting out of this is that for the DLC we'll start out as essentially a tarnished +0, and we'll end off the game as a tarnished +10 or even a tarnished +15 (i.e. normal damage or higher). I'm quite stoked if this is the case, it'd be a very interesting system for progression.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this power system replaced upgrade materials entirely.
I really want to try out a bunch of new weapons in the dlc. Hell, there's a few I haven't tried in the base game. But having to grind out Stones for a weapon that might not be worth it sucks.
It's not like progression would be invalidated, since you'd still have stat scaling.
This is very likely a gross oversimplification so take with a grain of salt. But this sounds like what they are primarily trying to do to cull hyper-optimized end-game builds is a damage cap.
Basically, it sounds like everyone regardless of level will start the DLC with a hard cap on how much damage you can do. High level characters will feel weak, low level character will feel impossibly weak. If you want to do more damage you need to kill bosses in order to get the item that miyazaki was talking about that raises the damage cap. It doesn't sound like they will directly alter any builds' stats, the "damage cap" that i theorize is being implemented is just going to hard prevent your build from outputting until you uncap your damage.
Sounds accurate and i hate it
Sounds accurate and I love it
im thinking unless they give you a shortcut to the dlc for new players there won't be low levels besides challenge runs. and if they do add a short cut, then the mechanic will let low level players compete as well without suffering
Sounds accurate and I hate it bc I plan on going into the dlc on NG+7. If it's not scaled properly it's just gonna be pure hell
Think of it how Bungie dose it, since soft seems to just be copying them on this. If your light level is 90 you do 10% less damage to a level 100 mob, but if your light level is 101 or 10million you do exactly the same damage 100%. Your level past doesn't benefit you but having level under will hurt you. In the DLc you most likely will get either DLC specific xp(very unlikely) or a time that add a phantom +1 to your stat or just a boring +% to hp or damage. lets pretend this DLC powerhas a copy and paste stat buff and you base level but ONLY while in the DLC.
If you have lets say 60hp level base and 39hp level phantom, you would add the base level scaling to the phantom level scaling. In the base you game you would have 1900 hp, but in the DLC you would have 3,302 hp. granted the real numbers and real scaling could be different then just a copy and paste of the base game.
Loved the analysis. Very well spoken. I give this video a 10/10. Keep it up!!
That’s why I’m going to do it on my level 30 + 3 weapon level character
This. This over here is why, after 2 years, I have yet to get into NG+, because I do not want to skip anything that can or will be available with my beloved character and all the effort I put into its progression. Knowing that there will still be a sense of progression in the DLC puts me at ease that I will not miss anything by “rushing” the base content or being overpowered.
This is an absolutely amazing idea.. I don't want to be overpowered and smash the DLC or it will be boring.
I was perfectly fine with dlc being a coasting phase for builds based more on flavor than sl. The 'problem' being addressed really hasn't been a big deal for myself or my friends in the past, as it doesn't take long for everyone to figure out the ideal level to start dlc's. Unless you're really going HAM for no reason, most people don't experience the crisis of being so high level the dlc is a cakewalk.
(Just read the title and thumbnail) i think it will be the other way around, we will just get stronger, it would make more sense lorewise for we to get weaker, but it would be underwhealming for me, at least, to be nerfed.
I hope they keep this design in whatever else they release after the DLC.
And on a kindve related note I like the idea of stats just giving you ACCESS to abilities and weapons and gear rather than having it affect your overall damage output. I feel like stat access to skills/weapons/gear should be more utility based and you only really worry about accessories to buff overall damage/number/effect output (ex: I’m choosing to upgrade strength not because it’ll boost my damage but because it’ll give me access to a sword with a particular moveset and secondary/elemental traits).
In this way (speculative) whatever the equivalent to Sekiro “memories” is in SotET, is kindve giving you raw power upgrades that you may or may not want to consume. And your stats would only be of concern in regards to weight management, hp/sp/fp pool, and skill/weapon access. Everything else would just be monster and boss knowledge and trial and error like every other soulslike.
You potentially could min-max more efficiently as well in the DLC area because this sort of progression system, only worrying about base stat requirements for particular weapons/skills and then dumping everything else VIG/END/MND If it works as described ofc.
I get it. It’s like finding your power back in a new land.
Like how Pikachu lost to a Snivy after tying with a Latios just a tournament ago.
I would love to know what lvl your Carian Royal Knight and his weapons are cuz that looks fun af man!
The video was great too, thanks on the off chance ya read this!
looked like a +7 weapon at level 20 for low level invasions
If that really is the case then that's amazing. No more accidently overleveling in dlc.
Really hyped for this. Right now I’m enjoying Lies of P, but I def miss Miyazaki’s excellent level design and art style in general. It’s all dark early Bloodborne alleys so far. Still the best 3D soulslike I’ve played along with Nioh 2.
Ie they are going to add new stats that only work in the dlc areas to increase attack power for that area only / defense for that area only. So you could start that area with lower or higher builds and still feel a sense of progression.
I had to roll my eyes a bit at the end. DLC impacting the base game is not a mystery that our grandchildren will be left to ponder dude.
I'm glad they're taking an approach like this, I wasn't a fan of the scaling in later areas and I generally don't like the feeling of being over or under leveled. Sekiro is far and beyond their best experience when it comes to this. They can balance the DLC around the limited and specifically placed damage upgrades rather than expecting everyone to be overleveled
the new date release got my rats acting up he start to upload more frequent now
Wait, what? New release date? Really?
@@Urd-Vidan 21 june 2024 dlc release date
@@fletaun you said new, so I thought you meant that they moved it.
@@fletaun Is that new though? I know people speculated it was releasing this month but we had no 100% proof of that
@@Samuel_REDACTED brother go watch the dlc trailer
King's Field music in the background? NICE
Egg mines is such a good song from kings field
So like sacred tears for your weapon
That slice at the end was 🔥
I sort of figured it was an extension of the base games philosophy of "This place too hard, I go elsewhere". In the DLC it wouldn't work nearly as well normally because you'd be going in post-Mohg- a point where levelling contributes significantly less to your power AND your gear is definitely almost fully upgraded.
Wait there's gonna be Sekiro mechanics? I mean that's cool but I wish Sekiro had DLC well I hope we get a sequel to that at least.
same man. same
I don’t think we’ll see a DLC but I think since Sekiro is more story driven a sequel could be likely
Yeah I think the only reason Sekiro didn't get a DLC was cuz they wanna make a sequel. Like Ratatoskr pointed out in the previous video on Miyazaki's interview, Fromsoft is currently working on atleast 3-5 projects. Who knows maybe Sekiro 2 is also one. Let's not forget that game won GOTY even before their success with Elden Ring so they know it's importance. They know all their major IPs got sequels & DLCs except only Sekiro & they know there is demand for a sequel of Sekiro. It will come one day. That's for sure 100%
Reminder that invasions take into account player lvl and weapon lvl so if they did increase weapon lvls. You would invade/ invaded by people of similiar lvls. A +6 straight sword wont invade people with +10 weapons.
I'm assuming since they've separated PvE/P balancing it won't really interfere with the current system for invasions, seeing as how reds don't interact with the environment anyway
I am so glad they thought about this.
Having skills and attributes that develop similar to Sekiro would be a really cool addition!
I was worried that id be too overlevelled for the dlc.
That sounds so simple and elegant that I'm surprised it hasn't been done before
It has been done. Sekiro somewhat.
🤦♂️
They needed a lore reason for, it seems
Bungie been doing this with their Light system since 2014, soft just copied their homework and expect no one to call them out.
@@Fusible_1 I meant as a way to resolve DLC progression
I’ll say this about the DLCs, sure I’ll have a build ready, but a lot of times the new gear in the DLCs is just so good that I have to modify my build to accompany at least 1 item
In other DLC's the lack of progression is less of an issue because of their length. Ringed City DLC you maybe would do at lvl 100ish, and buffing yourself to 110 may be helpful but it wasn't necessary. Where as if this DLC is going to be roughly 3/4 the size of the main game, this different level up system is basically a requirement in order for the game to function. I hope this helps solve the age old question for new players of "do i play the DLC before or after completing the main game?"
The problem with previous souls games is that In order for the game to have a complete well rounded story by the end it's nice to finish the DLC before fighting the final boss of the main game, normally because it adds context and gravity to the final boss and makes the ending more satisfying. However doing the DLC first often ends up over leveling you for the actual final boss of the main game such as in Bloodborne where the DLC bosses would be insanely hard and then the final bosses of the main game would be a complete cake walk. If you wanted to, you could complete the final boss of the main game and then play the DLC, however that means that you lack context for the final boss making the fight less impactful.
essentially making you choose between a satisfying story or gameplay experience. I think this new idea of separating the two is fantastic because it means you could put the main game on pause, do the DLC, and then come back to the main game without being over leveled for the final boss and getting the best of both scenarios.
Or perhaps regardless of your character level, in the shadow lands you start “fresh” but with your build. So it might not even matter what level you are, high or low. But this is just a quick speculation
Obviously we don't have all the details yet, but to me at least it sounds like this new system is going to be a damage multiplier on top of the stats you already have.
maby its gonna be like vendrick from ds2 where he has a massive resistance and by earning those soul of giants you would start lowering his resistance
that last clip was god tier
This new difficulty scaling mechanic sounds very interesting. I just hope it doesn't affect the way difficulty scales with NG+. I put over 600 hours into Elden Ring and I have plenty of save files backed up from NG+ to NG+4 ready to experience the DLC at various levels of difficulty. I would hate for each experience to be about the same or similar because of this new mechanic. I truly hope NG+ difficulty still scales the same in this new DLC as it has always done in From Software's past games.
This is something I've been contemplating ever since the DS2 DLCs. The progression in the base game feels so tailored for that content than the moment you go to the DLC areas, you're either too OP or quite underpowered, and there's not many areas to get those levels or a way to not balance the difficulty. This may not be a perfect solution, and I see some detractors already, but I welcome a custom made progression to increase the challenge of the game. I really hope they don't hold back.
I don't like the sound of that. I have put time and effort into a high level character for a purpose and If people want this challenge they can easily just do so by not excessively leveling up. The high level compensates for my lack of skill and time (that I am reasonably willing and able to put into it).
I've played Sekiro and it's a absolutely gorgeous game; I managed to defeat bosses like Owl Father and Isshin but the experience was not enjoyable for me. Guess we'll have to wait and see how this mechanic turns out in the end.
It's just like Bungie and Their Light system, on paper you can say it combats power creep. In reality it holds your hands and drags you to play content to get damage to compensate for the dev just dumping more hp and damage into the mobs.
I like how Fromsoft thinks what Elden ring really encapsulate. They think the feeling of expansiveness and option to try other thing to overcome challenges - this is what an open world is supposed to be!
And they want same feeling in its DLC too.
My interpretation is that they have created a separate character power vector that is exclusively acquired, utilized and customized within the DLC; effectively de-coupling power vectors already present in the base game. Doing this facilitates tighter control over their encounters, pacing, storytelling and simultaneously negating issues arising from incoming characters that may possess power distributed across an enormous range; i.e. hundreds of rune levels, gear, items, etc.
Makes sense. People who are at pvp meta levels in ER 120-150 will probably feel the same or slightly harder challenge than end game content. This change seems more for the people who hit level 300 and stuff with near maxed out stats and equipment. This way they don't just hop into the DLC and one shot everything in their path.
I hope they are referring to "high level" as level 300+ and not 150 lol - Personally I got my lv 389 dual wielding katana Samurai ready and don´t know what my samurai lacks, he really is perfect imo, thats why I fear I am too op for the DLC.
WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE SONG PLAYING IN THE BACKROUND OF THIS VIDEO PLEASE!!!
edit: the one that is playing on the section : The Problem
ua-cam.com/video/ZpG4OFkqmDU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=soot
King's Field IV - Dark Reality
I wish the Great Runes in the base game could of been that equivalent 'super upgrade'.
Will be glad if this DLC upgrade system goes beyond just upgrading stats and fundementally changes the game too.
Actually, I'm reminded of Human+ and OP-I in Armored Core. The 'expansions' would be designed around having those super powers. However, you could still play through the expansions without it, thus keeping it difficult if you want..... Tbh, it is surprising that the Souls games never adopted a similar feature for its DLCs.
Could be similar to the mechanic in God of War Ragnarok: Valhalla's DLC where the power scaling completely changes, and puts you on a seperate path to become stronger while keeping your normal attack power in the main story.
You provide some of the most interesting PvP footage out there. You’re a beast 💪🏻
I love the feeling of getting stronger, which is why I prefer starting a NG over going to NG+. It just tickles my brain to see numbers go up, so I'm glad I'll be able to have that in the DLC.
Neat. Saw it as a problem for NG+ already how the end of NG seems to already expect you to hit soft caps. Decent fix for the DLC.
Perhaps it's not a character mechanic but a world mechanic - you can do certain things such as kill side bosses which somehow decreases the power level of the main bosses (which could easily be explained with some lore)
FROM dlcs usually dont do much to improve your endgame power, instead giving more variety with new weapons/spells. Im kind of seeing this news as a bandaid for the steep endgame difficulty spike that became a point of criticism, even if it's exclusive to the dlc.
The idea of offering earned power-ups that only function within The Shadow Lands seems like a very smart idea. In addition, I think allowing players to down-level their character to a minimum of level 125 while giving a Lord's Rune (valued at 50,000 runes) per level forfeit in this manner would also be smart because it would relieve players of their worry of being too over-leveled to fully enjoy challenge of the DLC.
hope they keep the trend up of having the dlc content being harder than the original!
1 thing I wonder is if this system will exist on top of the existing leveling or be entirely seperate, as to say will the DLC ignore your current power level and the only way to become more powerful is with the new leveling system in the DLC area, or will having level 25/10 weapons and max stats still help in the DLC area
honestly I hope its the first one, this would put everyone on a even playing field day 1 just like when a new souls game comes out, wouldnt matter if you're new game+1,258 with 99s in all stats are just strong enough to kill mohg to access the DLC at all, one of my favorite parts of fromsoft games that I think we can all agree on is how everyone is given the same experience, we all start at the same power level, DLCs in souls games have always missed that part because you could enter the DLC in a new playthrough at level 50 or walk in on an already completed playthrough at level 500 and those 2 experiences would be wildly different
I’m level 713 for a reason I like to steamroll through everything PVE and PVP it took me over 6 months farming players in the lands between to earn this power. If what you’re saying is true this is bad news for players like myself that enjoy 1 shot builds
It's not . U just gotta adapt and create a build that canone shot Dlc characters. If you've done it once ,u can do it again.
im seeing a few people bring this playstyle up and like them you seem to be forgetting that you still had to get that strong in base game. they implied there are weaker bosses to get these powers from who won't be limiting your power level, this is what it sounded like to me
They should make samurai build the same fighting mechanic as sekiro, it was done so well
Part of me still still hope that they will bring back Bonfire Acestic so you can level up early areas
So to say it in short; your damage output will be very low in the Land of Shadow - but you get to keep all your gear & levels? I'd simply call this an "Area Skill". You have to level the new skill to do real damage in the new area. Super cool remedy for adding in more end-game content. So enemy attacks will probably hit like a truck in order to smash your high-level Vigor & endgame armor rating (since it isn't nerfing our attributes & gear, just our damage output). We'd still have our fat Stamina bar + FP, allowing us to use hella spells/weapon arts & hella dodging crazy enemy combo's - which will make for some WILD fighting. This is gunna be dope.
You're right.
Your analysis is correct, i agree 👌🏻