re: Westbrook's free throw shooting. There is a theory that a rule change implemented a few years ago -- in which players are not allowed to walk out to half court in between their free throws -- is the reason for his free throw decline. I researched this but did not present it clearly in a comment below, so I want to clarify here: Since the rule change, Westbrook has shot BETTER on his 2nd or 3rd free throw attempts (on 2 or 3-shot fouls) than on his 1st attempt. In 2018 he was at 72% on his first shot free throws and 76% on 2nd/3rd attempts. At the time of this video in 2019, he was at 57% on his first shot free throws and 73% on 2nd/3rd attempts. This, combined with his overall decline in outside shooting (2s and 3s) leads me to believe that the routine change has essentially no role in Westbrook's decline as a shooter. Apologies for the confusion on the earlier comment.
The most likely reason for his shooting decline in my (laughably unqualified) mind is the fact that he had yet another knee surgery before this season, and that he appears to have dropped off in terms of finishing layups with dunks but not his speed, suggesting that maybe his vertical chain is compromised causing his shot (which is quite ugly from a technical point) to drop off as well, as he seems to shoot like DRose did by propelling straight up and releasing the ball at the apex in a very herky-jerky manner.
Me theory for his bad shooting season is hes less scoring inclined and Westbrook is a volume shooter imho. He rarely got a chance to get a hot hand (includes driving to the basket (where he gets most free throws, ive never seen him drive so little to the basket)
Still confused, but maybe because there seems to be confusion as to what exactly the rule change was. Re-reading the original post by RJ Pele below, his post states "players have to be ready for their free throws quicker, but Westbrook's routine was, after he'd get fouled, he'd walk to the half court line and back." On the other hand, your statement regarding the actual rule change goes "players are not allowed to walk out to half court in between their free throws". The two are not the same, one (RJ Pele's) prevents players from taking a break before the first free throw, while the other (yours) prevents players from taking a break after the first free throw and before the second is taken. Depending on which is true, the results of your investigation may actually confirm the rule change is affecting Westbrook's declining FT % after all. For example, assuming RJ Pele's version is true, if your investigation shows a significant decline on Westbrook's first free throw since the rule change, but NOT on his 2nd (or 3rd, as the case may be), then doesn't that suggest the rule change is, in fact, affecting his free throws? His routine of going to half court and back before attempting his first free throw should, if the theory is correct, primarily impact his first throw, but less so (if at all) his second (or third). Too lazy to google search the actual rule change, but just thought I'd point out this inconsistency and let the professional (ie you) figure it out. Bought your book and subscribed. My basketball IQ now higher than Jeremy Lin's. Thank you.
mensrea in his old routine he would walk out of the three point line and the rule change does not allow that and thats whats different. However that does not seem to be the root of the problem in his shooting flaws
Thinking Basketball As a Celtics fan I would love to see you do videos in a week or 2 on each of the 4 contenders in the east and their strengths and weaknesses with their new pieces and what each team needs to do to win the eastern conference.
What about this par: "His turnovers are on the high side which make him exactly like all the grater passers of all time" Can you explain me how being a turnover machine makes you exactly like the greatest of all time??? John Stockton: 2,8 TOV PG Steve Nash: 2,9 TOV PG Jason Kidd: 2,9 TOV PG Chris Paul: 2,4 TOV PG Magic Johnson: 3,9 TOV PG (the only outlier on this list) All of them great shooters by the way Russell Westbrook: 4,5 TOV PG this season, 4,0 TOV PG career.
@@OjoRojo40 It's true, that comparison is off. I guess his point was to show that turnovers don't hurt your team as much when you get that many assists and easy buckets for your team, even in traffic. Secondly I understood that Westbrook is trying every pass in the book - which will lead to turnovers in the beginning but increase the offensive ceiling of the team in the long run. An interesting thought that I tend to agree with. For example Westbrook's assist numbers keep rising, interestingly enough his turnovers don't. Steph's assist numbers for example have dropped significantly since 2014/15 but he's only decreased his turnover rate by 0.4 a game. Westbrook doesn't compare to Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Rondo etc but he's close to Gary Payton meanwhile, closing in on Curry, is level with LeBron, ahead of Harden, DWade when it comes to assists in relation to turnovers so undoubtedly he's on an alltime great level, just not with the greatest 7 or 8 passing point guards of all time (purely talking passing).
Career TOV% Westbrook: 15.8 Stockton: 20.8 Nash: 19.5 Kidd: 18.8 CP3: 13.2 Magic: 19.4 Fun fact, Westbrook's TOs are only high because he uses up a lot of possessions. Relatively speaking, his possessions result to less TOs than all the great PGs mentioned except for CP3.
I'm pretty sure the reason why Westbrook's free throw percentage dived is because the NBA made this rule where players have to be ready for their free throws quicker, but Westbrook's routine was, after he'd get fouled, he'd walk to the half court line and back. It might seem weird but it's been his routine since he was in high school so having to change your routine after possibly 10+ years of the same thing would affect his percantage. Don't quote me though.
So I looked at that -- his free throw shooting on his first free throw (of 2 or 3) since the rule change took place is actually slightly BETTER. EDIT: I made this sound like the opposite of what it was. Will clarify with a pinned comment.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet So far you've hyperbolized bs facts supporting your opinion, ignored blatant facts that oppose it, and used insults against any audience that disagrees with you. No way in hell you're a fully grown ass man in the YT comments section acting like a whole ass fanboi and then some. Lmao quit trolling.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet Funny cause both curry and durant made it into the finals leading a team while westbrook lost in the first round with 2 allstars to a rookie
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet Curry won a title with Klay and Draymond before durant joined as the clear leader, while the first season without durant (2015) westbrook didnt even make it to the playoffs. Curry is a top 5 player in the league, with some arguing hes top 3, while westbrook is barely top 10 this season.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet What are you saying? Westbrook was drafted onto a team already with KD, ofcourse they arent gonna do bad, Also, curry has 3 rings, nobody won rings without good players. Westbrook never even got pass the first round as a leader; you cant compare the two lol.
YES, @Thinking Basketball is in that upper echelon along with @The NBA Storyteller -- THE END and probably coach nick but idk those guys are like on their own planets. . . . anyway i greatly appreciate the effort you put into the videos you create. respect to Rusty Buckets and MDJ and a nod to alchemy. . but the point here is actually that this video changed my life lol. i mean i've always had a complicated relationship with russell westbrook, because he's obviously thrilling to watch, and a total badass, and someone you'd want to root for... but at the same time watching him play sucks because his shooting/selection, and you know blah blah the conventional list of gripes. plus i'm def team steph when push comes to shove. they both have their strengths, different kinds of players, but at the end of the day it's whichever you prefer. anyway, this video has changed the way i see westbrook, and i will really be able to enjoy watching him play now. you're spot on about almost everything ;) . keep on keepin' on, my friend.
Wow. What a great analysis, it’s very rare to see an unbiased and fair analysis on Russ, people really take this man’s game for granted. He gets a ton of unnecessary hate. I’ve never seen anyone play the game with as much heart as he does for his size. Overall great work, glad I found this channel 👍
I've always said Westbrook is a teir 2 player in the league today but hes the guy that is the benchmark. If you are better than Westbrook, you're teir 1; if you're worse, teir 2
I would say the last few years, he was Tier 1 (unless you are saying only LeBron, Durant, and AD were Tier 1... but if you are saying a superstar is Tier 1, a guy that can get a mediocre to bad team to 45+ wins by his lonesome, then Russ the past few years has been a Tier 1 player). Going into this year, I had Russ about 8th. Unfortunately, his shooting has knocked him down some this year, so still elite, but I agree with you, that border between Tier 1 and Tier 2. He's the gatekeeper, lol.
In his MVP season he was definitely the top 5 best in the league, but the last two years his shooting has declined but he's still top 10imo. He's the best defensive point guard and he has the most assists by far even though he played fewer games and he is the best rebounder for his position. Once his shots start falling again he will easily be competing with curry for the best point guard.
@@lt2672 I'm not sure his shots will start falling. Imo his shooting has gotten worse because he is exerting too much energy elsewhere. Everything he does is with a sudden burst which is when someone uses the most energy. When he goes to shoot I'm guessing because it isn't at the same sudden speed he does everything else at, his body and/or mind slow down just a tad too much and messes with his focus/mechanics/etc. which forces his shot to be off and inconsistent. I think he needs to get lazier everywhere else, as stupid as it seems, and his shooting would get better.
I doubt Westbrook could have done more to keep OKC out of the 2nd and 3rd round of the NBA finals all these years. But then again, I'm not an OKC fan, what do I know?
8:50 “his ball dominant style doesn’t mesh well with other stars and poor shot selection puts a ceiling on his team’s offense” is so relevant to what’s happened to him with the Lakers 2021-2022
JustCallMeRock yes. i think people overhype him as a stretch four but he barely does catch and shoot 3pt shots and needs the ball in his hands to get it going. i wanna see how he thinks about tobias
His efficiency went downhill after his ankle injury but people never mention that. They just talk about his shooting being bad. But this was a great analysis without bias.
I have to admit I've been impressed with Westbrook's play in terms of mostly deferring to PG13 but when the playoffs come around and he starts jacking up 30 shots a game then we'll see if his inefficiency is still no big deal since he contributes in other ways.
I am not sure if OKC's offense will ever be good enough to get to the top. I mean when a team is relying so much on Westbrook to create everything, it will be easy for the defense to key in and stop the guy. I guess OKC can counter this by having Westbrook off the ball but I don't think Westbrook offers too much value without the ball since he can't shoot. OKC is dead last in passes per game for the 4th straight year and that shows the ball doesn't move. When the Thunder faces a team that's equally as good as they are on defense but way superior on offense then they will be in trouble.
ken juan just make sure you say that IF he shoots less shots than PG and they still lose. Which doesn’t mean anything really cause there’s been games when pg has shot bad and Westbrook shot 50% and they still lose. And pg got no blame and Westbrook got all of it. If they go out it’ll be to a better team cause no one is beating a 5 all star gsw team anyway. So getting out the first round or wcf is a success to me this year.
Jairo Aragão I have not seen OKC show up in the playoffs the last 2 years. Regular season means nothing. OKC’s advantage against GSW is Steven Adams but now GSW has Cousins who is a better player than Adams so that advantage is basically gone. Playoffs is all about making adjustments and countering the adjustments. The way OKC’s offense is constructed and how ball dominant Westbrook is there won’t be too many adjustments available. Yes, hopefully they get a shooter. I am not sure about Roberson. He already got exposed in the 2017 rockets series. The Thunder will play 4v5 on offense having him on the court. You look at how teams are ignoring Draymond to double on Curry and KD. Roberson will get the same treatment.
About his "chated" rebounds: there is a thought that it's not about statics making but more about the efficiency of attacks. Firstly, giving him these rebounds let OKC starts their attacks quicker because their center (or anyone who usually grabs rebound) doesn't need to find Westbrook to start an attack. Moreover, their bigmans have an advantage, cause they're closer to the rival's rim without needing to get rebound by themselves. And that strategy just completely changes the whole NBA and starts a triple-double explosion. From Westbrook's first season there was a rapid increase in the number of triple-doubles in the whole league, even if we put Russel out of brackets (because he made most of them). And it doesn't correlate with anything else (even not with game speed increase) just all in NBA start to use high and athletic PG's who can grab rebound by themselves (Ben Simmons) or bigmans who can pass well (Jokic). Russel Westbrook just made a hidden revolution which is close to the revolution which Steph Curry did.
False, steph curry averaged 9 or 8 rebounds in the 2017 finals. No one says steph curry is an amazing rebounder or gives him rebounding credit. Now how did curry get those rebounds? His bigs boxed out for him. But not to start some reckless fast break, but to make sure they get the possession in general. Terrible analysis
Yes he stat pads. People have a tendency to use this to disregard him though which is completely unreasonable. He's probably the best rebounding guard in the game and he only gets maybe 1 to 3 handed to him a game but the rest is all thanks to Westbrook's unrelenting motor. I am worried that his shooting efficiency is going to have coaches start to sag off of him a bit to better defend the slash and pass which will limit his offensive viability. In a perfect world I'd move him to shooting guard and convince him to use that incredible motor to run defenses into the ground and exhaust the hell out of them via off ball movement. Not sure how Russ would feel about that though. I worried about him as a teammate but I have massive respect for Paul George and how he and Adams talks about Russ makes him seem like the ideal teammate. As long as he gets his triple double he'll gladly let George dominate the scoring and Adams dominate the defense. He's like the ultimate wildcard on both sides of the ball and despite his inefficiency any team would be better off with a guy like that on their team. Fantastic analysis.
Great video. The one thing I would say is that the rebounds off of free throws is by design, not because of stats but because we are MUCH more efficient and potent on quick transition offense. So getting the ball in the hands of the guard 1 or 2 seconds quicker is important when you are trying to get up the court asap. Plus, wouldnt you rather have your bigs boxing out and then have your playmaker get the ball so he can start running?
According to Jeff Siegel, OKC is at 1.14 points per pos (PPP) when Russ grabs it and 0.96 when he doesn't. twitter.com/jgsiegel/status/1094331539679113216
OKC is 101-24 when Westbrook gets a triple double.. 🔘 Averaging a TD for 3rd straight season 🔘 Leading the NBA in APG 🔘 2nd in SPG 🔘 11th in RPG (Only Guard in Top 15) 🔘 6th in Defensive Ratings 🔘 5th in Defensive Win Shares 🔘 4th in Defensive Box +/- I mean if we're going to lay out the facts....
Tarus Morgan okay but you need to contextually look at the “facts.” Triple doubles require assists. If one player has 10 assists, it means his teammates are hitting shots. It’s not surprising they win when he gets the triple double. You can look at the record for just 10 Assist games with lets say, 8 rebounds instead of 10 and it’s probably the same. Plays the passing lanes. Doesn’t make you a good defender. Allen iverson said so himself, and he’d know considering he has 3 steals titles. Defensive rating has more to do with the DPOY candidate he’s playing with and the super long wings that fill OKCs roster.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim Westbrook led OKC in defensive rating in 16-17 (before PG's arrival) and 17-18 (with PG). This year, he's second only to Noel. The fact is, him playing on the floor has plus impact on both the team's offense AND defense.
Everyone knows how Westbrook's gets the rebounds. He gets assist but yet okc are one of the lowest assist teams, cause westbrrok wants to be the o e getting the assist to feed his TD narrative. He's defense off the ball is absolutely terrible, he forgets his man, stays of him so that he can get closer to the rim for a boxed out rebound.
Tarus Morgan lets hope they can get out the 1st round this year. Or not choke a 3-1 lead. Every single Westbrook fan brings up these numbers but these triple double have led to no post season success. What he’s doing is great and yeah they can be 4th n 5th in all these categories but he hasn’t seen a second round since KD left.
“OKC is 101-24 when Westbrook gets a triple double” Why do OKC fans think just because Russ gets a triple double is the main reason why they win. Makes no sense.
The thing is, nobody would watch, because people watching ESPN want Hot Takes and love to see Stephen A Smith rant about something stupid. The reason ESPN makes the content they do is because it sells and gets more people to watch. 90% of the basketball community rather not watch a unbiased and objective video that uses stats, and the eye test to prove a point.
Lauren Anderson You regard bballbreakdown because of better looking pie charts lol. But philosophy wise Thinking Basketball is far more neutral and reliable, bballbreakdown is good for bandwagons and wannabe analysts to cite and emulate. This vid gave a more elaborate and unbiased insight on Westbrook’s role both offensively and defensively instead of some petty vindictive ‘opinion’ to clown him like what bballbreakdown does, that alone gives Thinking Basketball an edge on credibility.
What a load of bullshit. Bballbreakdown clowns this guy. All this guy is doing is saying "Ignore all of the things which make Russel Westbrook look bad, and instead focus on these things" Hes basically an apologist for bad decision making. Bballbreakdown clowns Westbrook, because he is known for doing stupid shit on a consistant basis. No coach wants that. You could at least attempt to refute the points Coach Nick makes.
superlucci ‘Apologist’ not at all. This vid didn’t really give me an impression that Westbrook is a perfect player, I’d say more of an optimist than an apologist. What I got from it is that ‘this is Westbrook’s arsenal and this is his flaw, the direction he should be going is this’, instead of ‘Westbrook is dumb lol fuck him’ like that pathetic vid that bballbreakdown does that had the Benny Hill music. Westbrook isn’t even my favorite player but an analyst should never be that petty, really turned me off the entire channel.
Wow! An actual well-balanced, fair, thoughtful video on Westbrook that didn't cherry pick plays to make a single point. Great job. I wish more NBA youtubers were like this. You got my interest for future videos.
His stats don’t feel so empty now that his shooting slipping has really put more importance on the other areas of his game. In reference to his free throw shooting though, I vaguely recall the NBA made a rule change to where you can’t walk back to the half court line during free throw attempts which was part of Westbrook’s old free throw routine. Possibly a mental factor there
Westbrook's biggest defensive issue was he often stayed too close to the paint in order to pad his rebound #s so he contested fewer perimeter shots (many were 3s) than he could have. He's quick and has good lateral movement. He could be a defensive beast on the perimeter but he chose not to.
Navaro Palm agreed he might be a good rebounder but he just tries to hard to get that 10th rebound and thats why they dont win because he leaves his man and in the offence he just throws to much bricks although he could pass which he can actually do
Watching this now in 2021 as the Lakera struggle, it makes me realize that LeBron and Russ need different players around them as playmakers. LeBron needs shooters to maximize his finishing, while Russ is better with cutters with some floor spacing ability. LeBron puts you thru a hundred pick and rolls as a defender, while Russ is best at ramming the ball down your throat while pushing the pace and mandhandling smaller guards.
@@ThinkingBasketball great video. WB is having the worst shooting in his whole career. if he gets back to career normal shooting along with everything else he has improved on. where do you have him in the list?
Every player have weaknesses. But people always tend to magnify Westbrooks shooting so much they they ignore all the good things he brings on the table.
We are in a analytics golden age, and so fans and youtubers can get stuck on certain stats but overlook the ways in which a player affects a game. There's a saying: "the map is not the territory." The same applies here: stats are not the game. They help us to understand it, but there is so much more that goes on. One thing that I liked about this video is it shows that even his TOs still have value when looked at in the larger context of what he is trying to do and how it helps the team (not saying an individual TO has value, but that the process behind it does).
you say “shooting” like it’s some small skill in the bag you don’t really need. He’s a guard. Shooting is arguably the MOST important thing and he’s the worst at his position at it. Westbrook’s a great player, but your talking about SHOOTING the basketball, the main staple of the sport, like it’s equal to setting a screen or good defensive footwork in the post.
heatvision38 iverson WAS a great shooter, he just took bad his shots because he was his teams entire offense in an era that didn’t stress efficiency. It’s been over 2 decades since AI was drafted. We’ve learned a lot about modern offenses since then.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim Iverson was NOT a great shooter, like at all. Hec, the guy had a couple of seasons below 40%. Besides, we aren't just talking about how good a shooter he is, but how efficient he was, so if you are a good shooter but take a lot of bad shots and therefore have a poor FG%, then what does it matter? But in the end, Iverson's warrior spirit, his energy, his will to win, his speed, the pressure he put on defenses, his relentlessness, etc, etc, all of that helped his team. Jason Kidd was the same. He was not a good shooter for most of his career, but he was a great playmaker, so he made those around him better, he was an excellent rebounder, he helped the Nets to be a uptempo team to play to their strengths, and he was a very good defender. In other words, there are many ways in which to win, otherwise the team which scores the most points in the league would always be winning the title. We know this is not true (which is why we look at ratings now rather than totals for teams). The 80's Nuggets scored a ton, but they were not a good team. The name of the game isn't to "score" as you put it, because that's looking at it in too basic a way. It's to score more points than the other team you are playing, by whatever means necessary OR to cause them to score less than you, by whatever means necessary.
I think this dude is better than the heat check dude. Heat check dude just hates on Westbrook but this guy is has a balanced argument with better reasoning.
I'd argue that he is leaps and bounds beyond Heat Check. He understands the game on a much deeper level and uses analytics AND the eye test to analyze a player, not just one or the other. Which by the way, is pretty rare at this moment in time. A lot of analytics gurus just use stats to prove or disprove something, and a lot of people who watch film and actually understand the game don't use any stats or numbers to back up what they say. This guy does both, which like I said, is rare.
Heat check started well but nowadays he makes videos based on speculation instead of research. He quickly declined from one of the better NBA channels to one of the worst.
As Westbrook’s biggest fan I know he’s not perfect his passion alone makes him one of the best players I’ve seen and his positives far outweigh his negatives this is probably the best analysis I’ve seen great vid
They are a really well-balanced offense and well coached. Watching them against the Sixers last night, they don't give up. Guys make cuts, etc, they just play a good brand of basketball, and Jokic, similar to Marc Gasol for the Grizzlies when they were good, is so vital to that.
So basically if he got a shot he could be a top 5 guard of all time, cause he's one of the best passers, penatraters, and best rebounding guard of all time so if he gets a shot he could easily be top 5 all time. Now that's no disrespect to other top 5 guards of all Time like John Stockton, Magic Johnson or anyone but he is underrated by the media and they don't understand that after a few years he became one of the best passers.
Dude you're the best analysts on UA-cam there's literally no bias you give positive and negative facts on the player's game not just blind hate and you recognize greatness you got a sub keep up the good work bro
I think a Luka video would be sweet or if at all possible a former nba player such as MJ or Kobe to see how they managed to be so dominant in their time I don’t know the resources you have but loving all the content you put out nonetheless keep it up!
Would love to see a video on how Brook Lopez's ability to shoot the 3 ball has changed the last few years of his career, as well as how it helps stretch the floor and overall impact in Bud's system. Great content! Hope you consider this option!
I think the efficiency issues is only exacerbated by the current league that counts possessions mainly. But the context of why people are criticizing him of his defense is because for his age and athleticism, he is severely under achieving. Shutting down passing lanes, baiting for steals, roaming, is all well can good... for elite players who have lost a step and playing to conserve their careers, not for the most athletic, strongest P4P player who's still in his prime. And his tendency to slack off the 3 point line defense has a direct correlation to rebound-padding (not only the free rebounds that was pointed out) because he has a habit of doing this to contest rebounds in the paint. That 3 point line is only going to get deadlier come playoffs. Now before Russ-fanatics attack me, I have no dog in the fight, I just love basketball, and Russ is definitely a top 10 maybe top 5, even with his shooting woes (OKC needs Russ more than they need PG). I always thought he should be picked earlier in ASGs, but every player has a weakness, even Michael Jordan. You can observe them objectively without the need to be emotional.
As a russ fan, I agree that OKC as a team is not the best 3pt defending team, and a lot of that is because Russ loses his man at the line and goes for the steal, block, or rebound. But, watch games where we go up against elite 3pt shooting teams, and you can see his effort skyrocket (every warriors game, Russ is making an effort to be glued to curry). I think that his bigger weakness is his recent struggles in half-court offense, and that is what we have to address going into the all star break.
Hey i love your vids they are so well thought out and educational, I think i have a topic for you to dwell on: Why is Luka Doncic not an all star this year? or Why is Towns selected over Doncic in this years all star game Cheers for the great vid :)
PG is supplementing his lack of shooting and thats exactly what the team needs. He is figuring out what the team needs to win. Less of his shooting, solid defense, more of his passing, and as many rebounds as he can get. Todays Averages 21 PPG 11 RPG 11 APG 2.3 Steals??!!! They a defensive team all around and they’re 3rd in the west rn?? ...true underdog...not to compete but to Win!!!
Not to mention, for those who say his TDs are overrated, he has 8 in a row (and an assist shy of 9 in a row) and they have won 9 of 10. During that span, he has averaged 13.1 assts and 12.6 boards with 4.1 TOs (which would be better than 3:1 to/asst ratio, which is good). They also have been on their best offensive stretch in team history.
@@Talleyjanasia It's hard to double PG if Russ is getting the ball to Grant and Ferguson for open 3's or pick and rolls with Adams. Plus, they create a lot of their offense on the open court (off TOs and rebounds).
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet i dont even like curry but you're really out here disrespecting the best shooter in the history of the nba
Said it the entire series against Portland. He needs to be more Ben Simmons as opposed to trying to be Curry & Dame. They have the pieces to be a really really good offense. Maybe add a shooter in the offseason (idk their cap situation), but there is still potential to get a good return on that albatross of a contract before he starts a significant decline.
Beautiful analysis I'm so happy because I see how great Russ is at the other things other than scoring and hes overlooked in those categories but hes playing winning basketball and that's all that matters #ThunderUp
Your channel is by far the most detailed out of all the Nba analysis channels. I hope you get a million subscribers soon sir, because you deserve it! Keep up the great content, salute!
I disagree with your point that somehow his missed shots are positive for the offense. What is okc offensive efficiency with Steven Adams on the court with and without Russ. He’s one of the best rebounders in the league. He is also a guy who has been limited severely by Russ’s play style
La Tortuga Picante he’s limited by his own play style....he said himself he enjoys doing the smaller things. He also would rather tap rebounds out to his teammates rather than risking the other big out rebounding him. Learn basketball dumb fuck.
Amazing video! one thing I wanted to bring up which I think was missed is the fact that Russels team often clears out and lets him grab the board... Not denying he is a very effective rebounder but some of those should be Steven Adams or Grants but they just let Russ grab em
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet His rebounds are still inflated. Maybe it's not stat padding as he steal his teammates rebounds, because I think at this point his teammates just let him get it (probably coach instructions).
@@wallstreetzoomer Okay, let's say it's inflated a little bit, he's still averaging 11 boards a game, and as the video stated, the Thunder are a better offensive rebounding team when he's in the game. Even if you took a rebound or two away, he's still in Magic Johnson territory.
The breakdowns and analysis of the players is fantastic (On this channel and dimedrop). This is the kind of content I'd expect from ESPN and their millions of dollars, yet they could never come close. Keep up the great work!
Pythagorean Win formula -- basketball-reference has one. If you want something more in depth, follow @bbstats on twitter -- he does work on more advanced team strength (eg SRS + Win% etc)
@Lebron West 'Biological son of Delonte West' Love these types of responses because they are so reductionist. Melo was not an all star type player last year. We all know how quickly he became irrelevant in the league. The Thunder did not just lose to a rookie. They lost to an excellent defensive team with the best rim protector in the league (Russ' kryptonite), a well coached team that complements each other, a good coach, etc, etc, and had one of the best records in the league in the 2nd half (once Gobert came back). In fact, I was worried about that series going in because of Gobert and how it would impact Russ. This year's Thunder would kill last year's Thunder (PG ain't going for 5 points in a do-or-die game again, and their other players have gotten better). But I love your username, so props for that.
The notion that the greats threw so many touchdowns the interceptions barely hurt is inapplicable to Westbrook. On seasons where he typically averages 10 ast, he averages close to 6 turnovers. That is not a good ratio.
Here's how biased and ignorant people are and how easily they take over false narratives without checking the facts: Westbrook's assist to turnover ratio in 18/19 was 2.41:1. To put that into perspective, that's ahead of LeBron, Kemba Walker, Ben Simmons, Nikola Jokic, miles ahead of Giannis, Harden, Paul George (below 1.6). But once again people are only criticising Westbrook for something that factually doesn't even apply. That level of ignorance is pathetic
his shot selection and shooting % are what turn people off, he wont stop taking bad shots and wont improve his shot, as he only got worse once Durant left, he's in Houston now and hopefully he can take a more passive role with Harden to man the offense
And with some time delay, we can also say that this video is "Overthinking basketball". I understand heavy reliance on stats and metrics. But they just don't tell whole story. So, you never mentioned that he barely moves without the ball in offense, that he is taking too much shot, and generally decision making is not his best asset. Guy got provoked by Ricky Rubio last year! With all that said, I think your channel is going to grow in a really good evidence that stats and metrics just aren't everything and you need to rely more on understanding context while watching the game. Stats are generally very weak when it comes to showing the context. So, keep up the not so good work, so one day we can show the world how stats can take us in the wrong direction.
Awesome video man! Russ should see this, I mean all players on the videos should see this. This may help them improve as well. You got a new subscriber!
He's not "way better". Russ is still leading the league in steals despite missing a portion of the season, and when I last checked he was near the top of the league in defensive efficiency. You people need to watch the damn games
@@tigeranthony i do. Still RW is gambling which is risky and not always useful. I'd say his teammates carry him this year and his offense is not as helpful as it's been in past years. He basically never plays with the bench and has the worst efficiency stats on his lineups
@@patrickpreis3683 Question: why do you think Adams, Grant, Ferguson, and PG are all having their best offensive seasons? I'll give you one hint: it's not because Billy Donovan is an offensive mastermind.
This channel and the podcast are great learning tools but I do think the channel is even better as this is a visual game and things are better organized here. Keep up the phenomenal work man. There are stats, then there are advanced analytics backed up but what is actually happening on the court in context.
This really changed my view on Russ. Hope he fixes his mistakes which are mostly mental/attitude in nature. Really hope he comes back being very efficient in scoring since that's what's his criticised for now, after shutting up all the critics of his passing ability before.
He' s overrated, can't shoot,stats padding,,and his poor decisions late in games hurt okc,,okc Will never win a championship with westbrook on the team.
@@cifimayaka708 you dont need to be a fanboy to enjoy and love his hard work or style, but you need to be a hater to denigrate him. Also do you have a ",," problem because you keep using them like it is a thing(just asking)?
Westbrook was best when he was injured on the bench and we went on an eight-game winning streak using shrewder Felton and PG-13 as point guard, soon as he came back lost that next game and barely won any games by more than three points
Blue Times Look at how u spelled Schröder 😂😂😂. You clearly have no clue what ur talking about, cuz the average winning % for those 8 teams we beat was around 35-40%. Ur no thunder fan. Foh
re: Westbrook's free throw shooting. There is a theory that a rule change implemented a few years ago -- in which players are not allowed to walk out to half court in between their free throws -- is the reason for his free throw decline. I researched this but did not present it clearly in a comment below, so I want to clarify here:
Since the rule change, Westbrook has shot BETTER on his 2nd or 3rd free throw attempts (on 2 or 3-shot fouls) than on his 1st attempt. In 2018 he was at 72% on his first shot free throws and 76% on 2nd/3rd attempts. At the time of this video in 2019, he was at 57% on his first shot free throws and 73% on 2nd/3rd attempts. This, combined with his overall decline in outside shooting (2s and 3s) leads me to believe that the routine change has essentially no role in Westbrook's decline as a shooter.
Apologies for the confusion on the earlier comment.
what do you think the declining in shooting % is coming from and if WB were at his career average what is his new ranking.
The most likely reason for his shooting decline in my (laughably unqualified) mind is the fact that he had yet another knee surgery before this season, and that he appears to have dropped off in terms of finishing layups with dunks but not his speed, suggesting that maybe his vertical chain is compromised causing his shot (which is quite ugly from a technical point) to drop off as well, as he seems to shoot like DRose did by propelling straight up and releasing the ball at the apex in a very herky-jerky manner.
Me theory for his bad shooting season is hes less scoring inclined and Westbrook is a volume shooter imho. He rarely got a chance to get a hot hand (includes driving to the basket (where he gets most free throws, ive never seen him drive so little to the basket)
Still confused, but maybe because there seems to be confusion as to what exactly the rule change was. Re-reading the original post by RJ Pele below, his post states "players have to be ready for their free throws quicker, but Westbrook's routine was, after he'd get fouled, he'd walk to the half court line and back." On the other hand, your statement regarding the actual rule change goes "players are not allowed to walk out to half court in between their free throws". The two are not the same, one (RJ Pele's) prevents players from taking a break before the first free throw, while the other (yours) prevents players from taking a break after the first free throw and before the second is taken.
Depending on which is true, the results of your investigation may actually confirm the rule change is affecting Westbrook's declining FT % after all. For example, assuming RJ Pele's version is true, if your investigation shows a significant decline on Westbrook's first free throw since the rule change, but NOT on his 2nd (or 3rd, as the case may be), then doesn't that suggest the rule change is, in fact, affecting his free throws? His routine of going to half court and back before attempting his first free throw should, if the theory is correct, primarily impact his first throw, but less so (if at all) his second (or third).
Too lazy to google search the actual rule change, but just thought I'd point out this inconsistency and let the professional (ie you) figure it out. Bought your book and subscribed. My basketball IQ now higher than Jeremy Lin's. Thank you.
mensrea in his old routine he would walk out of the three point line and the rule change does not allow that and thats whats different. However that does not seem to be the root of the problem in his shooting flaws
Great analysis. Keep it up Ben
Hey man, I'm looking forward to your next video, too. It's great to see more and more great bball analysis channels on youtube.
Thanks Marc! Enjoyed your defensive analytics video recently.
Accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior change your desires and put God first repent of your sins spread the word of God
Thinking Basketball Your videos are amazing
Thinking Basketball As a Celtics fan I would love to see you do videos in a week or 2 on each of the 4 contenders in the east and their strengths and weaknesses with their new pieces and what each team needs to do to win the eastern conference.
Excellent analysis. Unbiased and reasonable.
Agreed
What about this par: "His turnovers are on the high side which make him exactly like all the grater passers of all time" Can you explain me how being a turnover machine makes you exactly like the greatest of all time???
John Stockton: 2,8 TOV PG
Steve Nash: 2,9 TOV PG
Jason Kidd: 2,9 TOV PG
Chris Paul: 2,4 TOV PG
Magic Johnson: 3,9 TOV PG (the only outlier on this list)
All of them great shooters by the way
Russell Westbrook: 4,5 TOV PG this season, 4,0 TOV PG career.
@@OjoRojo40 It's true, that comparison is off. I guess his point was to show that turnovers don't hurt your team as much when you get that many assists and easy buckets for your team, even in traffic. Secondly I understood that Westbrook is trying every pass in the book - which will lead to turnovers in the beginning but increase the offensive ceiling of the team in the long run. An interesting thought that I tend to agree with. For example Westbrook's assist numbers keep rising, interestingly enough his turnovers don't. Steph's assist numbers for example have dropped significantly since 2014/15 but he's only decreased his turnover rate by 0.4 a game. Westbrook doesn't compare to Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Rondo etc but he's close to Gary Payton meanwhile, closing in on Curry, is level with LeBron, ahead of Harden, DWade when it comes to assists in relation to turnovers so undoubtedly he's on an alltime great level, just not with the greatest 7 or 8 passing point guards of all time (purely talking passing).
Career TOV%
Westbrook: 15.8
Stockton: 20.8
Nash: 19.5
Kidd: 18.8
CP3: 13.2
Magic: 19.4
Fun fact, Westbrook's TOs are only high because he uses up a lot of possessions. Relatively speaking, his possessions result to less TOs than all the great PGs mentioned except for CP3.
Oklahoma will NEVER win a championship because Westbrook's full time job is padding his stats!
I'm pretty sure the reason why Westbrook's free throw percentage dived is because the NBA made this rule where players have to be ready for their free throws quicker, but Westbrook's routine was, after he'd get fouled, he'd walk to the half court line and back. It might seem weird but it's been his routine since he was in high school so having to change your routine after possibly 10+ years of the same thing would affect his percantage.
Don't quote me though.
So I looked at that -- his free throw shooting on his first free throw (of 2 or 3) since the rule change took place is actually slightly BETTER.
EDIT: I made this sound like the opposite of what it was. Will clarify with a pinned comment.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet So far you've hyperbolized bs facts supporting your opinion, ignored blatant facts that oppose it, and used insults against any audience that disagrees with you.
No way in hell you're a fully grown ass man in the YT comments section acting like a whole ass fanboi and then some. Lmao quit trolling.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet Funny cause both curry and durant made it into the finals leading a team while westbrook lost in the first round with 2 allstars to a rookie
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet Curry won a title with Klay and Draymond before durant joined as the clear leader, while the first season without durant (2015) westbrook didnt even make it to the playoffs. Curry is a top 5 player in the league, with some arguing hes top 3, while westbrook is barely top 10 this season.
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet What are you saying? Westbrook was drafted onto a team already with KD, ofcourse they arent gonna do bad, Also, curry has 3 rings, nobody won rings without good players. Westbrook never even got pass the first round as a leader; you cant compare the two lol.
Someone who knows the game of basketball not shitting on Westbrook and actually giving him props?!?! WHATTT
Been looking for this video forever🔥🔥
@George Harry That's always been his problem though. Starting to lose hope that he'll ever be able to fix it.
i mean, the ones that know the game of basketball usually give props to Westbrook, its the ones that dont know that shits on him
The fact that he says in this video that Westbrook forces passes and is an all time terrible shooter yet you take it as a positive is astounding
La Tortuga Picante the fact that was all you got from the video is astounding
You genuinely have the best NBA videos by far. Keep up the amazing work man!
Thank you -- really appreciate that!
The only guy on the Internet that I listen to.
YES, @Thinking Basketball is in that upper echelon along with @The NBA Storyteller -- THE END and probably coach nick but idk those guys are like on their own planets. . . . anyway i greatly appreciate the effort you put into the videos you create. respect to Rusty Buckets and MDJ and a nod to alchemy.
.
but the point here is actually that this video changed my life lol. i mean i've always had a complicated relationship with russell westbrook, because he's obviously thrilling to watch, and a total badass, and someone you'd want to root for... but at the same time watching him play sucks because his shooting/selection, and you know blah blah the conventional list of gripes. plus i'm def team steph when push comes to shove. they both have their strengths, different kinds of players, but at the end of the day it's whichever you prefer. anyway, this video has changed the way i see westbrook, and i will really be able to enjoy watching him play now. you're spot on about almost everything ;)
.
keep on keepin' on, my friend.
G-man who then???
Byanymeansbasketball is up there imo
You make the most underrated videos in the UA-cam NBA community by far
Wow. What a great analysis, it’s very rare to see an unbiased and fair analysis on Russ, people really take this man’s game for granted. He gets a ton of unnecessary hate. I’ve never seen anyone play the game with as much heart as he does for his size. Overall great work, glad I found this channel 👍
there's literally a ton of players who play with more heart than him
I've always said Westbrook is a teir 2 player in the league today but hes the guy that is the benchmark. If you are better than Westbrook, you're teir 1; if you're worse, teir 2
I would say the last few years, he was Tier 1 (unless you are saying only LeBron, Durant, and AD were Tier 1... but if you are saying a superstar is Tier 1, a guy that can get a mediocre to bad team to 45+ wins by his lonesome, then Russ the past few years has been a Tier 1 player). Going into this year, I had Russ about 8th. Unfortunately, his shooting has knocked him down some this year, so still elite, but I agree with you, that border between Tier 1 and Tier 2. He's the gatekeeper, lol.
In his MVP season he was definitely the top 5 best in the league, but the last two years his shooting has declined but he's still top 10imo. He's the best defensive point guard and he has the most assists by far even though he played fewer games and he is the best rebounder for his position. Once his shots start falling again he will easily be competing with curry for the best point guard.
@@lt2672 I'm not sure his shots will start falling. Imo his shooting has gotten worse because he is exerting too much energy elsewhere. Everything he does is with a sudden burst which is when someone uses the most energy. When he goes to shoot I'm guessing because it isn't at the same sudden speed he does everything else at, his body and/or mind slow down just a tad too much and messes with his focus/mechanics/etc. which forces his shot to be off and inconsistent. I think he needs to get lazier everywhere else, as stupid as it seems, and his shooting would get better.
@@lt2672 the best defensive point guard? lmao
@@rafaelr4901 I saw "best defensive point guard" and had to do a double take lol
As a thunder fan can't find anything wrong with this video
@@SuperTDSmith So did the warriors. THE SAME YEAR. How stupid are you?
I doubt Westbrook could have done more to keep OKC out of the 2nd and 3rd round of the NBA finals all these years. But then again, I'm not an OKC fan, what do I know?
8:50 “his ball dominant style doesn’t mesh well with other stars and poor shot selection puts a ceiling on his team’s offense” is so relevant to what’s happened to him with the Lakers 2021-2022
Based on the current state of the lakers this aged well
Do tobias Harris, hes now on the Sixers and see how he fits
JustCallMeRock yes. i think people overhype him as a stretch four but he barely does catch and shoot 3pt shots and needs the ball in his hands to get it going. i wanna see how he thinks about tobias
Would be even more interesting now
His efficiency went downhill after his ankle injury but people never mention that. They just talk about his shooting being bad. But this was a great analysis without bias.
I have to admit I've been impressed with Westbrook's play in terms of mostly deferring to PG13 but when the playoffs come around and he starts jacking up 30 shots a game then we'll see if his inefficiency is still no big deal since he contributes in other ways.
I am not sure if OKC's offense will ever be good enough to get to the top. I mean when a team is relying so much on Westbrook to create everything, it will be easy for the defense to key in and stop the guy. I guess OKC can counter this by having Westbrook off the ball but I don't think Westbrook offers too much value without the ball since he can't shoot. OKC is dead last in passes per game for the 4th straight year and that shows the ball doesn't move. When the Thunder faces a team that's equally as good as they are on defense but way superior on offense then they will be in trouble.
ken juan just make sure you say that IF he shoots less shots than PG and they still lose. Which doesn’t mean anything really cause there’s been games when pg has shot bad and Westbrook shot 50% and they still lose. And pg got no blame and Westbrook got all of it. If they go out it’ll be to a better team cause no one is beating a 5 all star gsw team anyway. So getting out the first round or wcf is a success to me this year.
Russ isn't deferring he is playing the same way he has always played even with Durant which is why pg13 is having the same numbers KD had
Jairo Aragão I have not seen OKC show up in the playoffs the last 2 years. Regular season means nothing. OKC’s advantage against GSW is Steven Adams but now GSW has Cousins who is a better player than Adams so that advantage is basically gone. Playoffs is all about making adjustments and countering the adjustments. The way OKC’s offense is constructed and how ball dominant Westbrook is there won’t be too many adjustments available. Yes, hopefully they get a shooter. I am not sure about Roberson. He already got exposed in the 2017 rockets series. The Thunder will play 4v5 on offense having him on the court. You look at how teams are ignoring Draymond to double on Curry and KD. Roberson will get the same treatment.
Can you send me the link to the NBA 2019 Finals today pls? Since you say that’s what will happen?
About his "chated" rebounds: there is a thought that it's not about statics making but more about the efficiency of attacks. Firstly, giving him these rebounds let OKC starts their attacks quicker because their center (or anyone who usually grabs rebound) doesn't need to find Westbrook to start an attack. Moreover, their bigmans have an advantage, cause they're closer to the rival's rim without needing to get rebound by themselves. And that strategy just completely changes the whole NBA and starts a triple-double explosion. From Westbrook's first season there was a rapid increase in the number of triple-doubles in the whole league, even if we put Russel out of brackets (because he made most of them). And it doesn't correlate with anything else (even not with game speed increase) just all in NBA start to use high and athletic PG's who can grab rebound by themselves (Ben Simmons) or bigmans who can pass well (Jokic). Russel Westbrook just made a hidden revolution which is close to the revolution which Steph Curry did.
False, steph curry averaged 9 or 8 rebounds in the 2017 finals. No one says steph curry is an amazing rebounder or gives him rebounding credit. Now how did curry get those rebounds? His bigs boxed out for him. But not to start some reckless fast break, but to make sure they get the possession in general. Terrible analysis
Jason Kidd did this his whole career
Ball moves faster than man.
To sum it up, he's a bad shooter but a great playmaker and athlete.
A play-maker is a decision maker. I have a hard time thinking of a worst decision-maker in a close game throughout league.
@@panagiotisatmatzidis9972 lebron steps in the room
@@290TheEmpireRecords you’re fucking insane if you think lebron is a worst decision maker than westbrook.
@@290TheEmpireRecords LeBron is literally described as... ...A player who only makes the correct decisions. 🤦🏽
@@9ra307 so swept twice and embarrased by jj Barrera in finals is best decision maker🤣🤣🤣
Lakers need to watch this during the off-season to try to make things work next year 😊
Yes he stat pads. People have a tendency to use this to disregard him though which is completely unreasonable. He's probably the best rebounding guard in the game and he only gets maybe 1 to 3 handed to him a game but the rest is all thanks to Westbrook's unrelenting motor.
I am worried that his shooting efficiency is going to have coaches start to sag off of him a bit to better defend the slash and pass which will limit his offensive viability.
In a perfect world I'd move him to shooting guard and convince him to use that incredible motor to run defenses into the ground and exhaust the hell out of them via off ball movement. Not sure how Russ would feel about that though.
I worried about him as a teammate but I have massive respect for Paul George and how he and Adams talks about Russ makes him seem like the ideal teammate. As long as he gets his triple double he'll gladly let George dominate the scoring and Adams dominate the defense. He's like the ultimate wildcard on both sides of the ball and despite his inefficiency any team would be better off with a guy like that on their team.
Fantastic analysis.
thank god for someone that actually looks deeply at the game and not just at analytics
Great video. The one thing I would say is that the rebounds off of free throws is by design, not because of stats but because we are MUCH more efficient and potent on quick transition offense. So getting the ball in the hands of the guard 1 or 2 seconds quicker is important when you are trying to get up the court asap. Plus, wouldnt you rather have your bigs boxing out and then have your playmaker get the ball so he can start running?
According to Jeff Siegel, OKC is at 1.14 points per pos (PPP) when Russ grabs it and 0.96 when he doesn't. twitter.com/jgsiegel/status/1094331539679113216
Ball moves faster than man... but sure, whatever nonsense you need to promote Russ
Russell Westbrook's worst enemy is himself. No matter what everyone want to see, or say.
Not a Westbrook fan by any means but it makes sense that guy who averages a triple double can still make his team better while not scoring well
Man he got 44p last night and hes got 22ppg wtf bad scorer?
Sinan Özdemir he averages 22 a game shooting 42/66/25. I didn’t say he was a bad scorer I just said he doesn’t score well considering his inefficiency
Ok bro
And this video actually tells us how Russ contributes
OKC is 101-24 when Westbrook gets a triple double..
🔘 Averaging a TD for 3rd straight season
🔘 Leading the NBA in APG
🔘 2nd in SPG
🔘 11th in RPG (Only Guard in Top 15)
🔘 6th in Defensive Ratings
🔘 5th in Defensive Win Shares
🔘 4th in Defensive Box +/-
I mean if we're going to lay out the facts....
Tarus Morgan okay but you need to contextually look at the “facts.”
Triple doubles require assists. If one player has 10 assists, it means his teammates are hitting shots. It’s not surprising they win when he gets the triple double. You can look at the record for just 10 Assist games with lets say, 8 rebounds instead of 10 and it’s probably the same.
Plays the passing lanes. Doesn’t make you a good defender. Allen iverson said so himself, and he’d know considering he has 3 steals titles.
Defensive rating has more to do with the DPOY candidate he’s playing with and the super long wings that fill OKCs roster.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim Westbrook led OKC in defensive rating in 16-17 (before PG's arrival) and 17-18 (with PG). This year, he's second only to Noel. The fact is, him playing on the floor has plus impact on both the team's offense AND defense.
Everyone knows how Westbrook's gets the rebounds.
He gets assist but yet okc are one of the lowest assist teams, cause westbrrok wants to be the o e getting the assist to feed his TD narrative.
He's defense off the ball is absolutely terrible, he forgets his man, stays of him so that he can get closer to the rim for a boxed out rebound.
Tarus Morgan lets hope they can get out the 1st round this year. Or not choke a 3-1 lead. Every single Westbrook fan brings up these numbers but these triple double have led to no post season success. What he’s doing is great and yeah they can be 4th n 5th in all these categories but he hasn’t seen a second round since KD left.
“OKC is 101-24 when Westbrook gets a triple double”
Why do OKC fans think just because Russ gets a triple double is the main reason why they win. Makes no sense.
GET THIS ANALYSIS ON ESPN.
The thing is, nobody would watch, because people watching ESPN want Hot Takes and love to see Stephen A Smith rant about something stupid. The reason ESPN makes the content they do is because it sells and gets more people to watch. 90% of the basketball community rather not watch a unbiased and objective video that uses stats, and the eye test to prove a point.
Thinking Basketball >> Bballbreakdown
Lauren Anderson You regard bballbreakdown because of better looking pie charts lol. But philosophy wise Thinking Basketball is far more neutral and reliable, bballbreakdown is good for bandwagons and wannabe analysts to cite and emulate. This vid gave a more elaborate and unbiased insight on Westbrook’s role both offensively and defensively instead of some petty vindictive ‘opinion’ to clown him like what bballbreakdown does, that alone gives Thinking Basketball an edge on credibility.
@Lauren Anderson Nah I feel like Bballbreakdown has regressed to click bait titles and highlights that give very shallow analysis.
What a load of bullshit. Bballbreakdown clowns this guy. All this guy is doing is saying "Ignore all of the things which make Russel Westbrook look bad, and instead focus on these things"
Hes basically an apologist for bad decision making. Bballbreakdown clowns Westbrook, because he is known for doing stupid shit on a consistant basis. No coach wants that.
You could at least attempt to refute the points Coach Nick makes.
@@superlucci he clowns him because he's obsessed with him and it gets him easy views with little effort
superlucci ‘Apologist’ not at all. This vid didn’t really give me an impression that Westbrook is a perfect player, I’d say more of an optimist than an apologist. What I got from it is that ‘this is Westbrook’s arsenal and this is his flaw, the direction he should be going is this’, instead of ‘Westbrook is dumb lol fuck him’ like that pathetic vid that bballbreakdown does that had the Benny Hill music. Westbrook isn’t even my favorite player but an analyst should never be that petty, really turned me off the entire channel.
Wow! An actual well-balanced, fair, thoughtful video on Westbrook that didn't cherry pick plays to make a single point. Great job. I wish more NBA youtubers were like this. You got my interest for future videos.
Man. Remember in his first few years in the league when he was mostly a raw athlete.
His evolution as a passer is amazing.
His stats don’t feel so empty now that his shooting slipping has really put more importance on the other areas of his game. In reference to his free throw shooting though, I vaguely recall the NBA made a rule change to where you can’t walk back to the half court line during free throw attempts which was part of Westbrook’s old free throw routine. Possibly a mental factor there
Westbrook's biggest defensive issue was he often stayed too close to the paint in order to pad his rebound #s so he contested fewer perimeter shots (many were 3s) than he could have. He's quick and has good lateral movement. He could be a defensive beast on the perimeter but he chose not to.
Navaro Palm agreed he might be a good rebounder but he just tries to hard to get that 10th rebound and thats why they dont win because he leaves his man and in the offence he just throws to much bricks although he could pass which he can actually do
Watching this now in 2021 as the Lakera struggle, it makes me realize that LeBron and Russ need different players around them as playmakers. LeBron needs shooters to maximize his finishing, while Russ is better with cutters with some floor spacing ability.
LeBron puts you thru a hundred pick and rolls as a defender, while Russ is best at ramming the ball down your throat while pushing the pace and mandhandling smaller guards.
Lakers have enough for both Volgel succs russ Bradley beal Reaves ariza and Howard would work great but he never does it
@@investingoutdabluu2210 one year on and this comment is still confusing. Wtf
Great video. Someone finally realising how Russ effects the game
Phenomenal analysis. Who'd you have over him to make the All-NBA Teams?
Kyrie, Curry, Dame. He can be an All-NBA level player and not make the actual team because the competition is too stiff (or vice versa).
Thinking Basketball you would put Dame above Westbrook?
Oladipo if he didn't get injured
@@wayne980206 Fynally someone who thinks dame is better than westbrook. Yes Dame over russ all day.
@@ThinkingBasketball great video. WB is having the worst shooting in his whole career. if he gets back to career normal shooting along with everything else he has improved on. where do you have him in the list?
Every player have weaknesses. But people always tend to magnify Westbrooks shooting so much they they ignore all the good things he brings on the table.
We are in a analytics golden age, and so fans and youtubers can get stuck on certain stats but overlook the ways in which a player affects a game. There's a saying: "the map is not the territory." The same applies here: stats are not the game. They help us to understand it, but there is so much more that goes on.
One thing that I liked about this video is it shows that even his TOs still have value when looked at in the larger context of what he is trying to do and how it helps the team (not saying an individual TO has value, but that the process behind it does).
you say “shooting” like it’s some small skill in the bag you don’t really need. He’s a guard. Shooting is arguably the MOST important thing and he’s the worst at his position at it. Westbrook’s a great player, but your talking about SHOOTING the basketball, the main staple of the sport, like it’s equal to setting a screen or good defensive footwork in the post.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim Iverson, Jason Kidd, they were not good shooters, but they still had incredible impacts on the game.
heatvision38 iverson WAS a great shooter, he just took bad his shots because he was his teams entire offense in an era that didn’t stress efficiency. It’s been over 2 decades since AI was drafted. We’ve learned a lot about modern offenses since then.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim Iverson was NOT a great shooter, like at all. Hec, the guy had a couple of seasons below 40%. Besides, we aren't just talking about how good a shooter he is, but how efficient he was, so if you are a good shooter but take a lot of bad shots and therefore have a poor FG%, then what does it matter?
But in the end, Iverson's warrior spirit, his energy, his will to win, his speed, the pressure he put on defenses, his relentlessness, etc, etc, all of that helped his team. Jason Kidd was the same. He was not a good shooter for most of his career, but he was a great playmaker, so he made those around him better, he was an excellent rebounder, he helped the Nets to be a uptempo team to play to their strengths, and he was a very good defender.
In other words, there are many ways in which to win, otherwise the team which scores the most points in the league would always be winning the title. We know this is not true (which is why we look at ratings now rather than totals for teams). The 80's Nuggets scored a ton, but they were not a good team. The name of the game isn't to "score" as you put it, because that's looking at it in too basic a way. It's to score more points than the other team you are playing, by whatever means necessary OR to cause them to score less than you, by whatever means necessary.
This is the most non biased video I’ve ever seen great work 👏🏾
3:59 curry's value in untouchable
this has quickly become my favorite hoops channel on youtube
I think this dude is better than the heat check dude. Heat check dude just hates on Westbrook but this guy is has a balanced argument with better reasoning.
I'd argue that he is leaps and bounds beyond Heat Check. He understands the game on a much deeper level and uses analytics AND the eye test to analyze a player, not just one or the other. Which by the way, is pretty rare at this moment in time. A lot of analytics gurus just use stats to prove or disprove something, and a lot of people who watch film and actually understand the game don't use any stats or numbers to back up what they say. This guy does both, which like I said, is rare.
Heat check started well but nowadays he makes videos based on speculation instead of research. He quickly declined from one of the better NBA channels to one of the worst.
Very pleased I found your page. Definitely recommending to my basketball friends
As Westbrook’s biggest fan I know he’s not perfect his passion alone makes him one of the best players I’ve seen and his positives far outweigh his negatives this is probably the best analysis I’ve seen great vid
Instant subscribe you literally gave me so many tips through your analysis that I rarely hear especially when talking about Westbrook
Finally a UA-camr not showing relentless hate on the Brodie
This is by the far most fair analysis and in depth look at the ay of Russell Westbrook. You just gained a new subscriber bro
so, are we just going to ignore the fact Jokic is between Harden and Curry on the best player team offensive rating stat? Feels important
They are a really well-balanced offense and well coached. Watching them against the Sixers last night, they don't give up. Guys make cuts, etc, they just play a good brand of basketball, and Jokic, similar to Marc Gasol for the Grizzlies when they were good, is so vital to that.
Fantastic video. Thank you for actually providing context as well as factual backing. This is rare among NBA UA-camrs.
So basically if he got a shot he could be a top 5 guard of all time, cause he's one of the best passers, penatraters, and best rebounding guard of all time so if he gets a shot he could easily be top 5 all time. Now that's no disrespect to other top 5 guards of all Time like John Stockton, Magic Johnson or anyone but he is underrated by the media and they don't understand that after a few years he became one of the best passers.
best hoops analysis on the web, your site is just fantastic!
Fantastic stuff, as always..
Dude you're the best analysts on UA-cam there's literally no bias you give positive and negative facts on the player's game not just blind hate and you recognize greatness you got a sub keep up the good work bro
I think a Luka video would be sweet or if at all possible a former nba player such as MJ or Kobe to see how they managed to be so dominant in their time I don’t know the resources you have but loving all the content you put out nonetheless keep it up!
This is actually turning into my favourite basketball channel
Russ is a legend❤️
Man I wish this guy just came into the league with a slightly better form on his shot... Would've been epic
2:17 _Brett Favre has entered the chat_
I was not a fan of him until this season but this year he has been balling out and most importantly leading his team to wins.
Do a PG-13 one next. Analyze what’s led to his career year both scoring and shooting, also his fantastic defense.
Glad that a small amount of my money contributes to great analyses like these. Keep it up Ben!
Great video as always! Would be interesting to see an analysis on Nikola Jokic and his versatile offense
Would love to see a video on how Brook Lopez's ability to shoot the 3 ball has changed the last few years of his career, as well as how it helps stretch the floor and overall impact in Bud's system. Great content! Hope you consider this option!
All the all time passers have high turnover rates. All except the GAAWD CP3.
@bojo perez yes Stockton . He had 10 consecutive season averaging over 3 turnovers a game.
@Ben Kruper boi stop. russ got more turnovers than cp3 all time but the thousands and hes entered the league 3 years after cp3.
Cp3 and westbrook are both losers not winning anything. Just truth
and Lonzo
Ben Kruper cp3 plays with a ball hog that was 11-28
I think the efficiency issues is only exacerbated by the current league that counts possessions mainly. But the context of why people are criticizing him of his defense is because for his age and athleticism, he is severely under achieving. Shutting down passing lanes, baiting for steals, roaming, is all well can good... for elite players who have lost a step and playing to conserve their careers, not for the most athletic, strongest P4P player who's still in his prime. And his tendency to slack off the 3 point line defense has a direct correlation to rebound-padding (not only the free rebounds that was pointed out) because he has a habit of doing this to contest rebounds in the paint. That 3 point line is only going to get deadlier come playoffs. Now before Russ-fanatics attack me, I have no dog in the fight, I just love basketball, and Russ is definitely a top 10 maybe top 5, even with his shooting woes (OKC needs Russ more than they need PG). I always thought he should be picked earlier in ASGs, but every player has a weakness, even Michael Jordan. You can observe them objectively without the need to be emotional.
As a russ fan, I agree that OKC as a team is not the best 3pt defending team, and a lot of that is because Russ loses his man at the line and goes for the steal, block, or rebound. But, watch games where we go up against elite 3pt shooting teams, and you can see his effort skyrocket (every warriors game, Russ is making an effort to be glued to curry). I think that his bigger weakness is his recent struggles in half-court offense, and that is what we have to address going into the all star break.
Hey i love your vids they are so well thought out and educational,
I think i have a topic for you to dwell on:
Why is Luka Doncic not an all star this year?
or
Why is Towns selected over Doncic in this years all star game
Cheers for the great vid :)
PG is supplementing his lack of shooting and thats exactly what the team needs. He is figuring out what the team needs to win. Less of his shooting, solid defense, more of his passing, and as many rebounds as he can get.
Todays Averages
21 PPG
11 RPG
11 APG
2.3 Steals??!!!
They a defensive team all around and they’re 3rd in the west rn??
...true underdog...not to compete but to Win!!!
Not to mention, for those who say his TDs are overrated, he has 8 in a row (and an assist shy of 9 in a row) and they have won 9 of 10.
During that span, he has averaged 13.1 assts and 12.6 boards with 4.1 TOs (which would be better than 3:1 to/asst ratio, which is good). They also have been on their best offensive stretch in team history.
This is gonna Hurt them in the playoffs tho once Paul starts getting doubled
@@Talleyjanasia It's hard to double PG if Russ is getting the ball to Grant and Ferguson for open 3's or pick and rolls with Adams. Plus, they create a lot of their offense on the open court (off TOs and rebounds).
heatvision38 who would u rather leave open for a 3
@@Talleyjanasia But you don't necessarily need to double a 3 pt shooter (Harden's an exception).
Amazing video quality
Stats talk! Your analysis is GREAT of all I've ever seen. Thank you!
Most great passers in the NBA don't get a lot of turnovers but stil a great analysis
Thanks for this video and all the other content you put out. Very appreciative of it all!!!
1.Curry
2.Westbrook
3.Kyrie
4.Lillard
5.Kemba
Kyrie and Damian lillard over Russ
Dreamville- damn no love for my mans Murray I mean guaranteed he’s injured but damn still
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet i dont even like curry but you're really out here disrespecting the best shooter in the history of the nba
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet Didn't he recruit Rodman from the Pistons?
Y’all are stupid as fuck I’m not a warriors fan but damn curry is one of the smoothest impactful players of this generation
Said it the entire series against Portland. He needs to be more Ben Simmons as opposed to trying to be Curry & Dame. They have the pieces to be a really really good offense. Maybe add a shooter in the offseason (idk their cap situation), but there is still potential to get a good return on that albatross of a contract before he starts a significant decline.
5:35 I am pretty sure you meant Frank Jackson
This page will soon have a million subscribers I can already see it. Good stuff man.
great videos, top knotch
Beautiful analysis I'm so happy because I see how great Russ is at the other things other than scoring and hes overlooked in those categories but hes playing winning basketball and that's all that matters #ThunderUp
russ is not playing winning basketball
How about russ on the lakers?
Your channel is by far the most detailed out of all the Nba analysis channels. I hope you get a million subscribers soon sir, because you deserve it! Keep up the great content, salute!
I disagree with your point that somehow his missed shots are positive for the offense. What is okc offensive efficiency with Steven Adams on the court with and without Russ. He’s one of the best rebounders in the league. He is also a guy who has been limited severely by Russ’s play style
La Tortuga Picante he’s limited by his own play style....he said himself he enjoys doing the smaller things. He also would rather tap rebounds out to his teammates rather than risking the other big out rebounding him. Learn basketball dumb fuck.
@@BerryMckHawkener He's a center... so you're saying it's Kareem's fault Magic didn't pass him the ball more.?
Amazing video! one thing I wanted to bring up which I think was missed is the fact that Russels team often clears out and lets him grab the board...
Not denying he is a very effective rebounder but some of those should be Steven Adams or Grants but they just let Russ grab em
watching this as hes on the lakers hits different
westbrook got underrated over the years, i mean cmon people complain even about his rebounds. watch this guy, hes a machine and outrebounds centers
4:00 poor lebron
@Joseph Kony - child kidnapper WarLord Prophet
His rebounds are still inflated.
Maybe it's not stat padding as he steal his teammates rebounds, because I think at this point his teammates just let him get it (probably coach instructions).
@@wallstreetzoomer Okay, let's say it's inflated a little bit, he's still averaging 11 boards a game, and as the video stated, the Thunder are a better offensive rebounding team when he's in the game. Even if you took a rebound or two away, he's still in Magic Johnson territory.
I’m just confused why everyone focuses on that one state. If they watch an okc game they’ll see the plays that come off it.
The breakdowns and analysis of the players is fantastic (On this channel and dimedrop). This is the kind of content I'd expect from ESPN and their millions of dollars, yet they could never come close. Keep up the great work!
how can u use srs to calculate a teams expected win%
Pythagorean Win formula -- basketball-reference has one. If you want something more in depth, follow @bbstats on twitter -- he does work on more advanced team strength (eg SRS + Win% etc)
thank you
@Lebron West 'Biological son of Delonte West' Love these types of responses because they are so reductionist. Melo was not an all star type player last year. We all know how quickly he became irrelevant in the league.
The Thunder did not just lose to a rookie. They lost to an excellent defensive team with the best rim protector in the league (Russ' kryptonite), a well coached team that complements each other, a good coach, etc, etc, and had one of the best records in the league in the 2nd half (once Gobert came back). In fact, I was worried about that series going in because of Gobert and how it would impact Russ. This year's Thunder would kill last year's Thunder (PG ain't going for 5 points in a do-or-die game again, and their other players have gotten better).
But I love your username, so props for that.
Absolutely love this channel. There are good channels out there but few actually show the exact plays to back up analysis! Keep up the work!
Westbrook is Super-Rondo right now.
Thinking Basketball is an amazing channel, uses stats in the right way, great analyst, just overall amazing
The notion that the greats threw so many touchdowns the interceptions barely hurt is inapplicable to Westbrook. On seasons where he typically averages 10 ast, he averages close to 6 turnovers. That is not a good ratio.
EXACTLY!!
Here's how biased and ignorant people are and how easily they take over false narratives without checking the facts:
Westbrook's assist to turnover ratio in 18/19 was 2.41:1. To put that into perspective, that's ahead of LeBron, Kemba Walker, Ben Simmons, Nikola Jokic, miles ahead of Giannis, Harden, Paul George (below 1.6). But once again people are only criticising Westbrook for something that factually doesn't even apply. That level of ignorance is pathetic
his shot selection and shooting % are what turn people off, he wont stop taking bad shots and wont improve his shot, as he only got worse once Durant left, he's in Houston now and hopefully he can take a more passive role with Harden to man the offense
And with some time delay, we can also say that this video is "Overthinking basketball". I understand heavy reliance on stats and metrics. But they just don't tell whole story. So, you never mentioned that he barely moves without the ball in offense, that he is taking too much shot, and generally decision making is not his best asset.
Guy got provoked by Ricky Rubio last year!
With all that said, I think your channel is going to grow in a really good evidence that stats and metrics just aren't everything and you need to rely more on understanding context while watching the game. Stats are generally very weak when it comes to showing the context. So, keep up the not so good work, so one day we can show the world how stats can take us in the wrong direction.
Awesome video man! Russ should see this, I mean all players on the videos should see this. This may help them improve as well. You got a new subscriber!
Westbrook really doesnt get enough praise because hes a little inefficient.
Because people have realized that he’s pretty overrated
Hes the most inneficient all star guard rn
A little??? A little inefficient is harden 44 percent or 43.9 Westbrook is shooting God awful
@@6sols988
Use TS%...
Objective Baksetball Fan westbrook TS% is 48% harden’s is 63%
Man I never comment on these types of videos but this guy is genuinely a great analyst
The answer to the name of the video is:
Not anymore
I love Westbrook but here’s things he needs to improve if he wants to get past 1st round and be more efficient Is
3s
FG %
FT
Luckily with a steady work ethic he can improve those things
@@bolt7047 but he doesn't have that
PG way better jumping passing lanes.
I'll get to that. :)
He's not "way better". Russ is still leading the league in steals despite missing a portion of the season, and when I last checked he was near the top of the league in defensive efficiency. You people need to watch the damn games
@@tigeranthony i do. Still RW is gambling which is risky and not always useful. I'd say his teammates carry him this year and his offense is not as helpful as it's been in past years. He basically never plays with the bench and has the worst efficiency stats on his lineups
Patrick Preis good points
@@patrickpreis3683 Question: why do you think Adams, Grant, Ferguson, and PG are all having their best offensive seasons? I'll give you one hint: it's not because Billy Donovan is an offensive mastermind.
This channel and the podcast are great learning tools but I do think the channel is even better as this is a visual game and things are better organized here.
Keep up the phenomenal work man. There are stats, then there are advanced analytics backed up but what is actually happening on the court in context.
Keep sleeping on westbeast... You’ll pay with interest.
Best analysis of Russell Westbrook I've seen
still cant win a playoff series to save his ass
This really changed my view on Russ. Hope he fixes his mistakes which are mostly mental/attitude in nature. Really hope he comes back being very efficient in scoring since that's what's his criticised for now, after shutting up all the critics of his passing ability before.
He' s overrated, can't shoot,stats padding,,and his poor decisions late in games hurt okc,,okc Will never win a championship with westbrook on the team.
Basketball isn't all about shooting, the stat padding argument is an embarrassing take
Yet here u are watching a vid about Russ haters are some lonely ppl
@@danielharper5885 ,,i m not a hater just not a fanboy
@@cifimayaka708 you dont need to be a fanboy to enjoy and love his hard work or style, but you need to be a hater to denigrate him. Also do you have a ",," problem because you keep using them like it is a thing(just asking)?
@@danielharper5885 Lol! This should be the FIRST comment on every Russ video for the incoming trolls to see
Westbrook was best when he was injured on the bench and we went on an eight-game winning streak using shrewder Felton and PG-13 as point guard, soon as he came back lost that next game and barely won any games by more than three points
Blue Times Look at how u spelled Schröder 😂😂😂. You clearly have no clue what ur talking about, cuz the average winning % for those 8 teams we beat was around 35-40%. Ur no thunder fan. Foh