When are you goina review cook up a storm, it’s a belter of a movie for you to review it’s like the modern version of god of cookery but has so much more things to touch up on culturally How the east Vs west cooking methods involve each of the characters cultural influences, Ano you don’t produce a lot of videos recently but this is a given for your topics and you’d really be missing out not reviewing it
@@TheAtlasReview what’s it matter when he’s not in china, what they goina do give him a bad social credit lol 😂 or have one of those police stations pick him up lol 😂
I still can't get over Donnie Yen's look in Dragon Tiger Gate. Dude was like 40 in it dressing up as a 20 year old. I also loved A Man Called Hero as kid but more so for the story than the fights. Something about a kid going to find his dad while meeting all the people he helped along the way was just nice and the presentation for it was well done.
This video is not against CGI. Rather it was about how CGI was used as the main spectacle (anime influence) instead of using it to enhance good fight choreography, cinematography, and characters.
@@CoralCopperHead- It's more about making a good movie and not being over reliant on CGI. There is a reason people love the first Matrix movie and not much the the sequels.
I still firmly believe Stephen Chow is the only person in the film industry capable of faithfully translating and adapting slapstick-action-comedy mangas/animes into a live-action format very closely to its original source material.
I agree. I feel like Kung Fu Hustle was the closest we have ever come to live action manhua. He understands when to lean into the good old fashion fight choreography and when to go all in on the CGI.
@peekaboopeekaboo1165 he really did. He hated it obviously. Not only that but he was almost the director but he refused. Why exactly tho, I think it's possible that he wanted control of the whole project and didn't want Fox to control him. Something like if I'm going to direct this I need creative freedom. I don't think it's an ego thing as he is a big dragon ball fan & would love to see his direction. If he ever did get to directed anything DB related it probably be closer to the manga than whatever we have now.
from that thumbnail i knew it was Dragon Tiger Gate! Every action sequence is top notch; from the 2 restaurant fights at the beginning, donnie yen sprinting out of darkness on the baseball field, and the best of all, the female lead battling hundreds of marbles falling down stairs in an insane montage
After watching this video, I realized I haven't been paying enough attention to this channel. I am not a huge follower of Hong Kong cinema, but I love movies in general, and you, whoever you are, are touched by greatness!
My friend and I were just talking about this, about how shallow cgi makes films feel, especially when overdone, and how having physical effects just hits differently, in ways that if done right, are way more easy to connect with and feel more authentic
Stormlight Archive fans say they want a live action adaptation and I am *terrified* of that idea for exactly this reason. If it's going to be animated, hire actual animators and let them do their jobs. We already know how to do stylish animation that looks good, holds up, and above all *fits together*.
The martial arts movies I was exposed to were the ones my cool friends or uncles put on the TV or, most of the time, in a DVD bought from a... questionable vendor, selling movies from... questionable sources (yohoho). Because of that, watching these type of movies feels like a box of chocolates. You get the good ones like Crouching Tiger, Kung Fu Hustle, or Hero, mixed in with a movie so weird and downright brain numbing, they kinda remind me of the movies in this video. So I have experiences with the good, the bad, and the ugly movie fights, for sure.
I can see how one of my family members got their hands on Chinese action movies. Except it's dubbed by locals that speaks the Hmong Language in China to be sold by Hmong Vendors in America. You get weird ones, you get rare gems. Then you get the weird stuff. Or you get things that you would call a classic. Like the Ten Siblings. Or Kung Fu Yoga. Not Jackie Chan's Kung Fu Yoga. Lol but a story that follows three protagonist.
I know it's not a great movie but I'll always have a soft spot for Dragon Tiger Gate. I can't hate a film that introduces me to "18 Dragon slaying palms"
One of the reasons these fight scenes look bad is because these actors didn't have any martial art background, some of them were just pop stars who weren't even good at acting. The directors had to rely on many tricks to hide the fact they can't fight.
I actually enjoyed watching Storm Brothers when I was little. The fight scenes with special effects made me feel the energy/spirit from each individual.
Dragon Tiger Gate is a movie based on a comic book with a lot of flashy mixed in, so it’s under stable that CGI were used, the biggest problem is that the director tried to kept the movie grounded instead of embracing the flashiness of the comic which made it terrible
I feel like CG probably follows the rules of most other art design. If you're aim is purely photorealism without a sense of how that'll fit into your work, it probably won't work because it's never actually going to be completely photorealistic. If you go in with a clear vision of what you're doing with the tool, why it has to be CGI and what it's going to add to your movie as an aesthetic element, along with your other elements, it'll probably survive a bit better even when the CGI gets out-dated, in the same way we can tell when something is just part of a backdrop in animation, but the aesthetic can carry us over that hump.
Werner Herzog has a better take. Even if CGI was perfect, you're still missing out. Physical reality has effects we can't know, and we don't want to lose. Oversimplified story but space: The "big" blood effect in the first Friday 13th film was a guy blowing through a tube. The tube got clogged. So not wanting to mess up the take because of the low budget, he blew harder, causing a torrent of blood to shoot out. Basically birthing the modern gory slasher as we know it due to an accident. If CGI had been available, the director and team would have never done the effect that way.
That was a major problem with the 3D trend too. Are you making a movie where 3D adds to the scenes, or is 3D the only reason for the movie? Even then CGI can be lacking, because there isn't anything physical for the actor to react to.
@@recoil53 Pure green or blue animatronics easily solve that problem -- or even just making sure the puppet can be easily cut out of the scene and replaced. It's one of the few things that hack Lucas did right with Revenge of the Sith; the actors were struggling in scenes with Yoda 'cause he was CGI, so they dusted off the old Yoda puppet and edited things in post.
I didn't realize how bad the CGI was when I watched Storm Riders as a kid and it really didn't age well with time. Now that I look back on it, maybe Storm Riders would have been better off as an anime adaptation. I didn't know that Manhwa's were being adapted as Hong Kong films back then.
There actually were animated adaptations of Storm Riders - I believe there were two. They, especially the newer one, were far better than the live action movie because they could reenact some of the super moves that are just not possible for real human beings. As a big fan of the original manhua I had wondered often how well it could be adapted into different media, and certainly hoped for a big budget feature-length animated movie.
Think you should look more into Andrew Lau if you seen his interviews, he was first having successful manwha adaptation with Young and Dangerous . Adapting CGI in Hong Kong was pushing the envelope as limited people could do it and all was just in begin phase and it allowed start of more CGI developement in HK and over the years improve their skills. If he didn't pushed for it, you wouldn't had Frankie Chung who did VFX for Storm riders, do the CGI in later movies like Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle.
Haha nooo, I love Twins Effect. I really enjoyed it back then and the CGI looked actually pretty good. I remember binging all new CGI offerings from HK in the hopes that one might be able to stand up to Hollywood, just so I can tell my friends: "See? HK movies are great!". My favourites were the Zu Warrior remake, Twins Effect and Shaolin Soccer especially, which is just the perfect movie.
One of the things I really like about "bad" early CGI action films is the experimentation. Yeah sure, it aged badly but the guy's shield in Dragon Tiger Gate having those flashes of a bell? Good shit. Nowadays shields are always spheres or made of hexes like a soccer ball. Maybe it's because I've played so much Dissidia and Devil May Cry, I'm a sucker for flashy, hyper-stylized action flourishes. The choreography is trash, but the CGI artists did some really neat stuff and I've grown to appreciate that.
They're superhero movies, so they can't go too far away from digital effects. The problem in them is in how shallow the stakes tend to be and how unimaginative the action sequences are. A recent exception is 'Across the Spiderverse', which is entirely animated and still it thrills.
@@peterfrank3365 A recent episode of Pitch Meeting pointed out that the Multiverse lowers the stakes even more because there’s an infinite pool of characters to freely pluck from whatever dimension they want now.
@@LeeChesnalavage Not sure how that pertains to CG problem in superhero films. But in regards to the multiverse, the stakes entirely depends on how it is depicted and how the characters react to it.
@@LeeChesnalavage Because the multiverse is an inherently dumb idea to demonstrate consequences to an audience. Thanos killed half the universe's population but it was still grounded in seeing the loss of those around them, nobody realistically cares about the death of even an entire planet that's unshown in a different galaxy, only the bit when spidey boy turns to dust. The idea of other universes come with the issue of having to explain to audiences why that should matters. There's no stakes if those affected are watered down by infinity and The Walking Dead already proved a constant inflow of new characters doesn't exactly make it better, it was just a bunch of randos dying by the end of the series.
2:00 Oh my lord, look at that 2000s Japanese/Taiwanese boyband haircut on Donnie Yen. I think I've seen this movie somewhere, because I remember seeing this character. This shot just brought it all back to my brain. He looks weird as hell.
BRUH!!!! The comment about the Matrix scene where you just clock out when the actor is replaced by CGI is so real! This is how I felt when I watched "Man of Steel". I was like, "where's the actor?". That movie especially felt like it was just CGI. And the crazy thing is I work in Animation, but even I just want to watch actors (or stunt doubles) acting as much as it's safe to do so. Or else make the whole thing Animation 😂😂😂😂 Good to have you back!
Storm Riders ❤️ I still remember how the advertisement in my gaming magazine tried to paint this movie as a miracle of action movie. With CGI only comparable to the CGI of the best videogames, and I buy that and loved every bit of it! HAHAHA
I feel you man. A friend of mine tried to get me to watch storm riders when it was new(ish) and I had already scene some clips and was absolutely NOT interested. This was the same guy who showed me my first jackie chan and jet li movies before they were released in the west. Watching these gems were good times and good memories but then, uggghh. It seemed like one day I just looked around and saw rapid cut shaky cam had taken over the west and goofy CG had taken over the east leaving almost nothing left. Thank god for Tony Jaa coming along when he did.
I discovered Storm Riders at random on like HBO or Cinemax or a similar channel decades ago, and I was blown away. Even ordered a DVD of it. Haven't watched it in a looong time, but I have fond memories of the movie.
I think an important note is that the same way that CGI can't make boring action exciting was that, especially at that time, a lot of the great CGI in western films was in order to mesh incredible practical effects into the world. Jurassic park had amazing animatronics which made it harder to tell when it was "real" or not and meaning they didn't have to rely on CGI all the time. Independence Day had positively insane miniature work, the mother ship being a real model that was like 10 feet across and the core of most of the explosions being real pyrotechnics. T2 did have some of the most impressive CGI of the decade (or longer) but also had really good prosthetic work for both the Terminators and good trick photography. Of course these days when you do have a 100% CGI fight scene many of the great ones are just motion captures of actual cool fights done by the stunt performers.
I like all these movies,especially Dragon Tiger Gate,the fights are awesome. "A Man Called Hero" has a fight that includes the element of water (rain if i remember correctly) which blew me away back in the day,but yeah,thos VFX aged poorly.
“Storm Riders” has 2 pretty boys as co-leads so it felt like it was expected. The theme song was huge from what I remember too I don’t remember if it came out before it but the storytelling conceit sounds like it might have come from Tim Burton’s “Big Fish”
Just recently watched Yes Madam, Royal Warriors and In the Line of Duty 3 & 4 for the first time, the plots aren't anything special but the fight choreography was sooooo good. I want I want to bring that style back so bad.
This is the period when I tapped out of HK cinema. I saw a movie called something like "Zu Mountain" with HORRIBLE CGI and realized the movies I had loved so much were now a thing of the past.
Even if the CGI ages like milk, sometimes the absolute wonkiness of the CG FX enhances the campiness of the scene and I can't help but find utter charm in that. (assuming that the scene isn't supposed to be an actual emotional moment)
I found the concept of the story for A Man Named Hero compelling. Really it would do a great drama. When you watch an action sequence is like "allright, this is a satire, right?".
@@wargames2195 Think Hong Kong did it or at least producers were from Hong Kong, which broadcast in the ATV channel (an old defunct TV channel that used to rival against TVB in HK), with Kenny Ho as Hero
@@hanchiman Yep. And there's also the comic, which is the best version IMO. Still the movie ain't bad, I'm gonna have to disagree with Accented Cinema this time.
I feel slightly attacked that I have seen all 3 movies... I use to own a copy of Storm Riders and a Man Called Hero. My old roommate wanted to get the "letter opener swords" from Storm Riders also.
This is how I feel about CG effects in general. I usually enjoy bad - or just dated - practical effects more than pure CG. Of course, practical effects *enhanced* by CG can be great, too. But having something physically substantial generally looks better, especially when actors are really interacting with it.
2:46 The cinematic equivalent of playing against a Guile player that does nothing but hold down+back and waits for you to do something. PS: My favourite pre-CG bad Hong Kong fight scenes all belong to Godfrey Ho and his terrible ninja movies. Loop the same shot of a guy in a multicoloured suit and a headband that says NIN-JA about 4 or 5 times, cut to him awkwardly landing and producing a weapon (sometimes a gun) from thin air, bam, you've got yourself some action choreography. If you're Godfrey Ho, that is...
"I'm not approaching you." "You can't kick my ass if you don't get closer." "HADOKE- "SONIC BO-" "HADOKE-" "SONIC BO-" "HADOKE-" "SONIC BO-" "HADOKE- "SONIC BO-" *repeat ad nauseum*
7:49 I remember watching and obsessing over Wind and Cloud at middle school. A local TV station aired it weekly at around 9:30 PM and I stayed up every week to watch it. I still remember bits and pieces of how it looks visually. It's burned into my brain. I'm sure the visual effects are horrible by today's standards, but it was super awesome back in the day. And the OST song, which apparently is remake of a Japanese song from a legendary rock band called Malice Mizer. Such a random thing to do. I only learned about this many years later, when I accidentally stumbled on the original Japanese song.
So glad to see Storm Riders and A Man Called Hero listed here. These were two of my favorite movies as a kid. I can't bring myself to watch them today 🤣
I think that the other factor to bring into the mix here is videogames - I think that both Dragon Tiger Gate and Storm Riders were attempting to tap into a videogame aesthetic and attempting to appeal to the taste of a new generation of gamers.
And trying to do so can be such a mess. Bunraku also tried to do the same, with comic book influences. It's a fail. A director needs a clear workable vision of how it all comes together, or luck. Kung Fu Hustle, with it's comic elements, was successful in that because Stephen Chow didn't make CGI THE thing but a component of the whole
The abuse of cgi taking place of action is a problem almost everywhere there's action cinema. Marvel/superhero movies tend to have really forgetable fight scenes lately. Shaky cameras and dark art direction is another thing that gives me "urgh" feelings. I guess is plain and simple - good action sequences, as anything good in cinema, takes time, planning and effort on execution. All the three stuff I pointed out are a signal things are being rushed up in production - and with the abusive crush they pratice over vfx artists the results are getting even worse. CGI can work. But you can't rely only with this to get something to work. I was watching hounted mansion with Eddie Murphy other day with my girlfriend. 01 - It was not a recent movie; 02 - Not the biggets blockbuster in the block so nothing specially different on cgi manners. And the efects works perfectly for the film. Why? They're in service of the story and art direction, they are not the atraction. BTW Haunted Mansion is a pretty nice movie. Specially for watching with familly and kids.
Shang Chi's bus fight scene started out as a really nice and grounded fight which was fucking surprising for a Marvel film, and then, almost as soon as i had breathed that sigh of relief had the film exploded into overreliance on CGI and left behind good, well developed fight scenes.
'Guardians of the Galaxy 3' had the hallway fight sequence. No dark lighting or shakey cams, and James Gunn made it seem like it was one continuous take. Yes, it's an exception amidst the superhero fatigue, but I'm not going to act like the 'John Wick' movies don't exist. Choreography over digital effects have made a comeback.
yeah it's an issue of both having a good live action foundation and good storytelling to give the fight stakes. Thor, Ironman and Capt's fight with Thanos was the best Marevel fight for me, not because of the CGI, but because of the tight choreography, cinematography, build up, and desperation in every character. Even the epic final battle doesn't compare because it's just a spectacle to wrap up the film. CGI just enhance things. It should never be the only thing.
@@franklinturtleton6525 I'm actually not a fan of the bus fight either. It was in an awkward place of being too "Jackie Chan" yet not "Jackie Chan" enough. The CGI background also lessens it. I prefer the fight scene when Wenwu met his wife. A fine homage to Wuxia films and it carried some nuance, instead of just a simple fight scene.
@@peterfrank3365 yeah Guardians Vol. 3 is wonderful and, to be Fair, most Of James Gunn Work is like an exception to this problem. If you compare action on Guardians 1 and 2 and the other films the characters play (infinite Wars, Endgame, Thor Love & Thunder) there's a certain diference. There's the director extra caring and probably also the feedback Of criticisms Marvel/Disney received the last 10 years. They allready course-corrected some stuff (Like the unstopable one-linners for a Quick laugh) but not always Work. Quantumania still a terrible movie on ALL possible reasons, including the abuse Of CGI and flatt characters and blend story. But ... John Wick ia there ... Dungeons and Dragons have really decent fight and action scenes... There is Hope!
Bruh, Chronicles of Red Sword is pure kino and you can't convince me otherwise. It has actual choreography with CGI, it looks legit cool and with cool ass music.
Totally agree. I remember really enjoying Strom Riders and Dragon Tiger Gate when they first came out (never saw a man called Hero) but even then I felt that there were somethings missing from the action scenes.
I clicked on this video skeptical. I never thought I would ever see a bad fight from Hong Kong. This video proved me wrong. If a fight scene ends up boring you, then it is for sure a bad fight.
I heard so much about these three franchises! But most people agree the comics are way better not just for doing what movies wouldn't at the time but actually having stakes that feel real. I mean there were angles that gave a sense of unbelievable power mixed with mental images. These movies are just what live-action adaptations get typecast for, shameless cash grabs that use flashy CGI to get people interested with aesthetics. But have no weight behind them.
Thanks for the nostalgia trip, The Storm Riders is actually quite good in my tinted memory, but mostly the plot owing to source material, same goes for A Man Called Hero, I just can't remember the CG scene for better or worse. That said, one thing from A Man Called Hero that wasn't source material is that kick ass piece of main theme (forgot if played at intro or at the end).
I remember I used to say to myself, "any martial arts movie starring Ekin Cheng is bad." just because he starred in a lot of those PSX FMV-quality of movies.
Funny that you said A Man Called Hero is hard to find even in torrent sites. This movie got replayed so many times in a local Indonesian channel and dubbed, even the last time was like some weeks ago.
A Man Called Hero was the very first wuxia movie I ever watched when I was a kid, I remember it fondly. Watching a final battle that looked like a live action Dragon Ball Z scene (much better than the actual live action DBZ movie Hollywood made years later) was amazing, and I had the same feeling watching the final fight in Matrix Revolutions. To each his own I guess. I can understand however the argument against CGI overuse, current Hollywood superhero films are filled with CGI doubles and actors standing and doing nothing. It's somewhat similar to the argument against early 3D polygonal games in regards that they don't age very well.
"If your fight is actually good, why would you speed it up,..." - I think you really hit the nail on the head here. At a time when Hollywood action flicks like John Wick are celebrating realistic action, long takes, and generally eschewing unnecessary special effects. It seems that, ironically, we're getting "better" action / martial arts in the West, instead of the East.
The only good John Wick films are the 1st and the 4th. And the 4th relies a lot of asian martial artists and the 1st being on anime. And tbh, even western-wise, John Wick is amateur compared to gun-kata found in Equilibrium.
@@JakeFLM Soi Cheang isn't a committed action director (he mostly directs thrillers and dramas) and a lot of his action movies are either VFX heavy spectacle action like the movies being criticized in this video, or manga adaptations. He made SPL II, which is great, but also a massive digression from the style of the first movie.
Yugo Sakamoto is an indie director, and Brett Chan works in the United States. Kenji Tanigaki and Donnie Yen are amazing action performers, but their record as directors is somewhat spotty.
Oh man, all these titles were my childhood. I read the dragon tiger gate comic, never watch the movie tho. Watch the Storm Riders movie and tv adaptation, I remember complaining why they talk so much in the tv series - just fight already. Last, I remember the fight on the liberty statue but completely forgot the title of the movie. I don't remember they all bad fight scene, but then again I was a child.
Bollywood is a interesting foil to this. What is done differently that makes Bollywood cgi an enjoyable selling point while it takes away for Hong Kong action?
I don't have any concrete evidence, but it's surely the "human cost" that leads to the prevalence of CG effects in action movies. You would need people that are trained in martial arts, stunt coordinators, insurance for the performers, and so on. It's good to see that there are plenty of movies in recent years that have committed to having actors/performers do the stunts practically where possible.
I thought of all three movies' success as primarily attributable to them being adaptations of manhua with some of the biggest fan bases out there. I was one of them, and remember being very excited about my favorite stories being turned into film. No disagreement with the CGI and the movies overall falling short, but my point of view there was that they tried but did not find a good enough life action approach to interpret an art form originally painted with colored ink. Some of the silly "impressionistic" scenes were faithful in style to how the original manhua portrayed fights, but while looking fantastic on paper it failed pretty bad on screen.
I enjoyed all three of those movies in my youth as they were all based on comic books. And I watched anything based on comic books. While not great movies they certainly had a lot of style.
I was really intrigued when you put Dragon Tiger Gate as an example for bad fight scenes since it's got absolutely phenomenal ones, it's a Donnie Yen movie after all! But then that CGI came up and, yeah, it was brief but it was sad.
The best old CGI fight scene was the final fight in The Duel with Andy Lau. The two swordsman fighting on the forbidden city was timeless. It was also a pretty funny movie as well.
I recall that they actually cut out a few minutes of scenes from the original DVD release of Man Called Hero in response to criticism, something I've only ever seen one other movie do (Battlefield Earth)
I still have vcds/dvds of those movies, which I now cannot play cause my last player broke down years ago. They are now just relics from another era....
Storm Raiders was great at the time, I was in my 20s. That said I loved Dragon Inn as well. Donny Was the KING, SPL was amazing and super underrated. Oh i need to rewatch Young and Dangerous
It's nice to know that no matter what region of the world you were in, thanks to the beginning steps of CGI as well as confused generational mishaps that the early 2000s cinema was a fever dream in every culture. 😂
I had a DVD copy of A Man Called Hero back when I was in primary school. I actually like the story and fight a lot. The final fight is bad but some fight scenes with less cgi are actually pretty good. Still, I admit nostalgia plays a big part in my good impression towards it.
I remember watching storm riders as a kid and then dragon tiger gate and a man named hero a bit after I found them when I got a bit older. I think the biggest take away I got was that I should go back and read Storm Riders manhua :P I found some translated versions online but never the complete set unfortunately. I love that kinda stuff still and wish someone would create a cinematic universe for them :P
Same here. Big fan and I've been disappointed (for a couple decades now) that none of the adaptations have measured up to the original work. All three titles have huge fan bases and a gigantic potential market.
It's good to be back! I've been traveling in China for the past month!
When are you goina review cook up a storm, it’s a belter of a movie for you to review it’s like the modern version of god of cookery but has so much more things to touch up on culturally
How the east Vs west cooking methods involve each of the characters cultural influences,
Ano you don’t produce a lot of videos recently but this is a given for your topics and you’d really be missing out not reviewing it
Yo can you tell me if this video spreading false rumours or is he legit right?
ua-cam.com/video/NUaYNhzEq_E/v-deo.html&ab_channel=laowhy86
Are you ever concerned about going to China considering that you have criticised aspects of chinese media?
@@TheAtlasReview what’s it matter when he’s not in china, what they goina do give him a bad social credit lol 😂 or have one of those police stations pick him up lol 😂
@@TheAtlasReviewhe never criticized CCP in his videos, just as the film critics in China, so he will be just fine.
Shaolin soccer is a masterpiece, a staple of my childhood.
shaolin kung fu is great, hou hou yeah~
Same with kung fu hustle for me
one of the top HK movies of the new millenium. It's so good
Huge Chow fan but wouldn't call Shaolin Soccer anything near a master piece. In fact, I thought it was one of Chow's worst work.
Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle are both classics.
Steven Speilberg got CGI right with Jurassic Park: relying on CGI as a backup tool rather than a basis for the entire movie.
As time goes by, Jurassic Park impresses me more and more. It holds up to many, many viewings.
Yeah. Using cgi to find tune practical effects is so much better.
Tell that to James Cameron
It wasn't a backup tool.
CGI was front and center throughout the movie.
A CGI dinosaur was the first dinosaur you saw.
I think most 90s movies are like that. We are too comfortable using cgi to limit budget now
I still can't get over Donnie Yen's look in Dragon Tiger Gate. Dude was like 40 in it dressing up as a 20 year old. I also loved A Man Called Hero as kid but more so for the story than the fights. Something about a kid going to find his dad while meeting all the people he helped along the way was just nice and the presentation for it was well done.
He looked ridiculous and honestly that was the only thing I remember from that movie.
So that's an achhievement lol
10:05 "Good art does not expire. CGI loses relevance when the next best thing comes along" paraphrased. WELL SAID.
*Coughs in 'still enjoys The Matrix'*
This video is not against CGI. Rather it was about how CGI was used as the main spectacle (anime influence) instead of using it to enhance good fight choreography, cinematography, and characters.
@@CoralCopperHead- It's more about making a good movie and not being over reliant on CGI.
There is a reason people love the first Matrix movie and not much the the sequels.
I still firmly believe Stephen Chow is the only person in the film industry capable of faithfully translating and adapting slapstick-action-comedy mangas/animes into a live-action format very closely to its original source material.
Huh...what manga/anime did Stephen Chao adopt into a live action movie ?
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165none so far. But he produced the horrible Dragon Ball Evolution and regretted it.
I agree. I feel like Kung Fu Hustle was the closest we have ever come to live action manhua. He understands when to lean into the good old fashion fight choreography and when to go all in on the CGI.
@@rickythemaddragonxiong8757
Oh ...I didn't know he also produced the DBE .
@peekaboopeekaboo1165 he really did. He hated it obviously. Not only that but he was almost the director but he refused. Why exactly tho, I think it's possible that he wanted control of the whole project and didn't want Fox to control him.
Something like if I'm going to direct this I need creative freedom.
I don't think it's an ego thing as he is a big dragon ball fan & would love to see his direction. If he ever did get to directed anything DB related it probably be closer to the manga than whatever we have now.
from that thumbnail i knew it was Dragon Tiger Gate! Every action sequence is top notch; from the 2 restaurant fights at the beginning, donnie yen sprinting out of darkness on the baseball field, and the best of all, the female lead battling hundreds of marbles falling down stairs in an insane montage
After watching this video, I realized I haven't been paying enough attention to this channel. I am not a huge follower of Hong Kong cinema, but I love movies in general, and you, whoever you are, are touched by greatness!
You're missing out on a lot of beautiful movies that influenced a lot of Hollywood movies. Once you see it, it will click.
@@makukawakami Thank you. Do you have any suggestions on where to start my journey?
Hong Kong cinema is great so many good films to watch.
@@pheemer what genres are you into?
@@makukawakami I love all genres, but, looking at my DVD collection, I guess you could say I lean towards the horror/sci-fi films.
My friend and I were just talking about this, about how shallow cgi makes films feel, especially when overdone, and how having physical effects just hits differently, in ways that if done right, are way more easy to connect with and feel more authentic
Stormlight Archive fans say they want a live action adaptation and I am *terrified* of that idea for exactly this reason. If it's going to be animated, hire actual animators and let them do their jobs. We already know how to do stylish animation that looks good, holds up, and above all *fits together*.
The martial arts movies I was exposed to were the ones my cool friends or uncles put on the TV or, most of the time, in a DVD bought from a... questionable vendor, selling movies from... questionable sources (yohoho). Because of that, watching these type of movies feels like a box of chocolates. You get the good ones like Crouching Tiger, Kung Fu Hustle, or Hero, mixed in with a movie so weird and downright brain numbing, they kinda remind me of the movies in this video. So I have experiences with the good, the bad, and the ugly movie fights, for sure.
I can see how one of my family members got their hands on Chinese action movies. Except it's dubbed by locals that speaks the Hmong Language in China to be sold by Hmong Vendors in America. You get weird ones, you get rare gems. Then you get the weird stuff. Or you get things that you would call a classic. Like the Ten Siblings. Or Kung Fu Yoga. Not Jackie Chan's Kung Fu Yoga. Lol but a story that follows three protagonist.
@@yeng1855 I have seen the Hmong dub of an unofficial Taiwanese Dragon Ball movie.
I know it's not a great movie but I'll always have a soft spot for Dragon Tiger Gate. I can't hate a film that introduces me to "18 Dragon slaying palms"
It knows it isn't the best film so it doesn't try to be, and that's what's good about it; it's honest.
Bro that movie was soooooooooooooooooooo dammmmmmmmn good
@@deadmanlyndon dragon tiger gate is based on a legendary comic called Oriental Heroes!
One of the reasons these fight scenes look bad is because these actors didn't have any martial art background, some of them were just pop stars who weren't even good at acting. The directors had to rely on many tricks to hide the fact they can't fight.
I've been a huge fan of Storm Riders for years. So glad to see you cover it. It has it's flaws but I've always had a place in my heart for it.
I actually enjoyed watching Storm Brothers when I was little. The fight scenes with special effects made me feel the energy/spirit from each individual.
Dragon Tiger Gate is a movie based on a comic book with a lot of flashy mixed in, so it’s under stable that CGI were used, the biggest problem is that the director tried to kept the movie grounded instead of embracing the flashiness of the comic which made it terrible
A friend, who now owns a few movie theaters, absolutely LOVED Storm Riders! Wonder if he still does? It's been a long while.
"Computer enhanced action, not computer instead of action". That is an amazing line.
I feel like CG probably follows the rules of most other art design. If you're aim is purely photorealism without a sense of how that'll fit into your work, it probably won't work because it's never actually going to be completely photorealistic. If you go in with a clear vision of what you're doing with the tool, why it has to be CGI and what it's going to add to your movie as an aesthetic element, along with your other elements, it'll probably survive a bit better even when the CGI gets out-dated, in the same way we can tell when something is just part of a backdrop in animation, but the aesthetic can carry us over that hump.
Werner Herzog has a better take. Even if CGI was perfect, you're still missing out. Physical reality has effects we can't know, and we don't want to lose. Oversimplified story but space: The "big" blood effect in the first Friday 13th film was a guy blowing through a tube. The tube got clogged. So not wanting to mess up the take because of the low budget, he blew harder, causing a torrent of blood to shoot out. Basically birthing the modern gory slasher as we know it due to an accident. If CGI had been available, the director and team would have never done the effect that way.
That was a major problem with the 3D trend too. Are you making a movie where 3D adds to the scenes, or is 3D the only reason for the movie?
Even then CGI can be lacking, because there isn't anything physical for the actor to react to.
@@recoil53 Pure green or blue animatronics easily solve that problem -- or even just making sure the puppet can be easily cut out of the scene and replaced. It's one of the few things that hack Lucas did right with Revenge of the Sith; the actors were struggling in scenes with Yoda 'cause he was CGI, so they dusted off the old Yoda puppet and edited things in post.
I didn't realize how bad the CGI was when I watched Storm Riders as a kid and it really didn't age well with time. Now that I look back on it, maybe Storm Riders would have been better off as an anime adaptation. I didn't know that Manhwa's were being adapted as Hong Kong films back then.
There actually were animated adaptations of Storm Riders - I believe there were two. They, especially the newer one, were far better than the live action movie because they could reenact some of the super moves that are just not possible for real human beings. As a big fan of the original manhua I had wondered often how well it could be adapted into different media, and certainly hoped for a big budget feature-length animated movie.
@@peterhou4359 You are right, according to MAL(My Anime List) there was an OVA that came out in 2002 and a animated movie in 2008.
Think you should look more into Andrew Lau if you seen his interviews, he was first having successful manwha adaptation with Young and Dangerous . Adapting CGI in Hong Kong was pushing the envelope as limited people could do it and all was just in begin phase and it allowed start of more CGI developement in HK and over the years improve their skills. If he didn't pushed for it, you wouldn't had Frankie Chung who did VFX for Storm riders, do the CGI in later movies like Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle.
Haha nooo, I love Twins Effect. I really enjoyed it back then and the CGI looked actually pretty good. I remember binging all new CGI offerings from HK in the hopes that one might be able to stand up to Hollywood, just so I can tell my friends: "See? HK movies are great!". My favourites were the Zu Warrior remake, Twins Effect and Shaolin Soccer especially, which is just the perfect movie.
The Jackie cameo was great
One of the things I really like about "bad" early CGI action films is the experimentation. Yeah sure, it aged badly but the guy's shield in Dragon Tiger Gate having those flashes of a bell? Good shit. Nowadays shields are always spheres or made of hexes like a soccer ball.
Maybe it's because I've played so much Dissidia and Devil May Cry, I'm a sucker for flashy, hyper-stylized action flourishes. The choreography is trash, but the CGI artists did some really neat stuff and I've grown to appreciate that.
This is the same exact problem I have with Marvel movies. They’re more animated than performed by actors these days.
They're superhero movies, so they can't go too far away from digital effects. The problem in them is in how shallow the stakes tend to be and how unimaginative the action sequences are.
A recent exception is 'Across the Spiderverse', which is entirely animated and still it thrills.
@@peterfrank3365 A recent episode of Pitch Meeting pointed out that the Multiverse lowers the stakes even more because there’s an infinite pool of characters to freely pluck from whatever dimension they want now.
@@LeeChesnalavage Not sure how that pertains to CG problem in superhero films.
But in regards to the multiverse, the stakes entirely depends on how it is depicted and how the characters react to it.
@@peterfrank3365 It doesn’t pertain. 😂
@@LeeChesnalavage Because the multiverse is an inherently dumb idea to demonstrate consequences to an audience. Thanos killed half the universe's population but it was still grounded in seeing the loss of those around them, nobody realistically cares about the death of even an entire planet that's unshown in a different galaxy, only the bit when spidey boy turns to dust. The idea of other universes come with the issue of having to explain to audiences why that should matters. There's no stakes if those affected are watered down by infinity and The Walking Dead already proved a constant inflow of new characters doesn't exactly make it better, it was just a bunch of randos dying by the end of the series.
2:00 Oh my lord, look at that 2000s Japanese/Taiwanese boyband haircut on Donnie Yen.
I think I've seen this movie somewhere, because I remember seeing this character. This shot just brought it all back to my brain.
He looks weird as hell.
BRUH!!!! The comment about the Matrix scene where you just clock out when the actor is replaced by CGI is so real! This is how I felt when I watched "Man of Steel". I was like, "where's the actor?". That movie especially felt like it was just CGI.
And the crazy thing is I work in Animation, but even I just want to watch actors (or stunt doubles) acting as much as it's safe to do so. Or else make the whole thing Animation 😂😂😂😂
Good to have you back!
I have been missing your sass, kid. Welcome back!
bad fight scenes are usually hilariously fun when its cheesy bad
Storm Riders ❤️ I still remember how the advertisement in my gaming magazine tried to paint this movie as a miracle of action movie. With CGI only comparable to the CGI of the best videogames, and I buy that and loved every bit of it!
HAHAHA
I always click on you brother as soon as i see a video. Your the man bro
I feel you man. A friend of mine tried to get me to watch storm riders when it was new(ish) and I had already scene some clips and was absolutely NOT interested. This was the same guy who showed me my first jackie chan and jet li movies before they were released in the west. Watching these gems were good times and good memories but then, uggghh. It seemed like one day I just looked around and saw rapid cut shaky cam had taken over the west and goofy CG had taken over the east leaving almost nothing left. Thank god for Tony Jaa coming along when he did.
Accented cinema, I really like your channel. I hope you're a happy person.
I discovered Storm Riders at random on like HBO or Cinemax or a similar channel decades ago, and I was blown away. Even ordered a DVD of it. Haven't watched it in a looong time, but I have fond memories of the movie.
I think an important note is that the same way that CGI can't make boring action exciting was that, especially at that time, a lot of the great CGI in western films was in order to mesh incredible practical effects into the world. Jurassic park had amazing animatronics which made it harder to tell when it was "real" or not and meaning they didn't have to rely on CGI all the time. Independence Day had positively insane miniature work, the mother ship being a real model that was like 10 feet across and the core of most of the explosions being real pyrotechnics. T2 did have some of the most impressive CGI of the decade (or longer) but also had really good prosthetic work for both the Terminators and good trick photography. Of course these days when you do have a 100% CGI fight scene many of the great ones are just motion captures of actual cool fights done by the stunt performers.
We 2:40 2:44
3:34 3:35
4:18 4:20
Me reading the title of the video and then me seeing Dragon Tiger Gate in the thumbnail: ouch. My childhood.
I like all these movies,especially Dragon Tiger Gate,the fights are awesome. "A Man Called Hero" has a fight that includes the element of water (rain if i remember correctly) which blew me away back in the day,but yeah,thos VFX aged poorly.
Very glad you're back! ( I hope your trip to China was a good one! :)) Your videos always make my day.
“Storm Riders” has 2 pretty boys as co-leads so it felt like it was expected. The theme song was huge from what I remember too
I don’t remember if it came out before it but the storytelling conceit sounds like it might have come from Tim Burton’s “Big Fish”
I think that's why the John Wick movies were such a breath of fresh air. Led by stuntmen first and starring someone who respects them.
Oh yes. Ip Man, The Raid, John Wick, and even Everything Everywhere All At Once.
Today, I was like yo where is accented cinema??? Haven’t seen a video from him in a while and just searched you up… and here we goooo
Just recently watched Yes Madam, Royal Warriors and In the Line of Duty 3 & 4 for the first time, the plots aren't anything special but the fight choreography was sooooo good. I want I want to bring that style back so bad.
This is the period when I tapped out of HK cinema. I saw a movie called something like "Zu Mountain" with HORRIBLE CGI and realized the movies I had loved so much were now a thing of the past.
Even if the CGI ages like milk, sometimes the absolute wonkiness of the CG FX enhances the campiness of the scene and I can't help but find utter charm in that. (assuming that the scene isn't supposed to be an actual emotional moment)
I was willing to let Dragon Tiger Gate slide but then you brought Storm Riders into this. I will literally fight you.
Good to see you back from vacation!
I found the concept of the story for A Man Named Hero compelling. Really it would do a great drama.
When you watch an action sequence is like "allright, this is a satire, right?".
They actually make it a drama, I think in Taiwan.
@@wargames2195 Its the same Name? I'll try to Find a torrent or something. This is trully a great pitch for a drama movie.
@@wargames2195 Think Hong Kong did it or at least producers were from Hong Kong, which broadcast in the ATV channel (an old defunct TV channel that used to rival against TVB in HK), with Kenny Ho as Hero
@@hanchiman Yep. And there's also the comic, which is the best version IMO.
Still the movie ain't bad, I'm gonna have to disagree with Accented Cinema this time.
@@taionalmeida5337 I think? I know it's the same source material but I don't know if it has the same name.
I watched A Man called Hero, BACK in the day where you could find it online. How time flies.
I feel slightly attacked that I have seen all 3 movies... I use to own a copy of Storm Riders and a Man Called Hero. My old roommate wanted to get the "letter opener swords" from Storm Riders also.
Ekin Cheng is the go to guy for any time a character has long hair.
Black Mask 2: City of Masks - must have one of the worst fight scenes in HK history
Yeah, when I first saw it, I thought, "Tsui Hark as director and Yuen Wo Ping as the action director, this has got to be good!" I was very wrong.
This is how I feel about CG effects in general. I usually enjoy bad - or just dated - practical effects more than pure CG. Of course, practical effects *enhanced* by CG can be great, too. But having something physically substantial generally looks better, especially when actors are really interacting with it.
2:46 The cinematic equivalent of playing against a Guile player that does nothing but hold down+back and waits for you to do something.
PS: My favourite pre-CG bad Hong Kong fight scenes all belong to Godfrey Ho and his terrible ninja movies. Loop the same shot of a guy in a multicoloured suit and a headband that says NIN-JA about 4 or 5 times, cut to him awkwardly landing and producing a weapon (sometimes a gun) from thin air, bam, you've got yourself some action choreography. If you're Godfrey Ho, that is...
"I'm not approaching you."
"You can't kick my ass if you don't get closer."
"HADOKE-
"SONIC BO-"
"HADOKE-"
"SONIC BO-"
"HADOKE-"
"SONIC BO-"
"HADOKE-
"SONIC BO-"
*repeat ad nauseum*
I read the title, thought of one movie, then looked at the thumbnail and I thought "oh damn, that's the exact scene I was thinking of."
7:49 I remember watching and obsessing over Wind and Cloud at middle school.
A local TV station aired it weekly at around 9:30 PM and I stayed up every week to watch it.
I still remember bits and pieces of how it looks visually. It's burned into my brain. I'm sure the visual effects are horrible by today's standards, but it was super awesome back in the day.
And the OST song, which apparently is remake of a Japanese song from a legendary rock band called Malice Mizer. Such a random thing to do. I only learned about this many years later, when I accidentally stumbled on the original Japanese song.
So glad to see Storm Riders and A Man Called Hero listed here. These were two of my favorite movies as a kid. I can't bring myself to watch them today 🤣
I think that the other factor to bring into the mix here is videogames - I think that both Dragon Tiger Gate and Storm Riders were attempting to tap into a videogame aesthetic and attempting to appeal to the taste of a new generation of gamers.
And trying to do so can be such a mess. Bunraku also tried to do the same, with comic book influences. It's a fail.
A director needs a clear workable vision of how it all comes together, or luck. Kung Fu Hustle, with it's comic elements, was successful in that because Stephen Chow didn't make CGI THE thing but a component of the whole
Tbh I think it worked seeing it now gave me early prince of Persia vibes and i kinda dig it ngl.
The abuse of cgi taking place of action is a problem almost everywhere there's action cinema.
Marvel/superhero movies tend to have really forgetable fight scenes lately. Shaky cameras and dark art direction is another thing that gives me "urgh" feelings.
I guess is plain and simple - good action sequences, as anything good in cinema, takes time, planning and effort on execution.
All the three stuff I pointed out are a signal things are being rushed up in production - and with the abusive crush they pratice over vfx artists the results are getting even worse.
CGI can work. But you can't rely only with this to get something to work. I was watching hounted mansion with Eddie Murphy other day with my girlfriend.
01 - It was not a recent movie;
02 - Not the biggets blockbuster in the block so nothing specially different on cgi manners.
And the efects works perfectly for the film. Why? They're in service of the story and art direction, they are not the atraction.
BTW Haunted Mansion is a pretty nice movie. Specially for watching with familly and kids.
Shang Chi's bus fight scene started out as a really nice and grounded fight which was fucking surprising for a Marvel film, and then, almost as soon as i had breathed that sigh of relief had the film exploded into overreliance on CGI and left behind good, well developed fight scenes.
'Guardians of the Galaxy 3' had the hallway fight sequence. No dark lighting or shakey cams, and James Gunn made it seem like it was one continuous take.
Yes, it's an exception amidst the superhero fatigue, but I'm not going to act like the 'John Wick' movies don't exist. Choreography over digital effects have made a comeback.
yeah it's an issue of both having a good live action foundation and good storytelling to give the fight stakes. Thor, Ironman and Capt's fight with Thanos was the best Marevel fight for me, not because of the CGI, but because of the tight choreography, cinematography, build up, and desperation in every character. Even the epic final battle doesn't compare because it's just a spectacle to wrap up the film. CGI just enhance things. It should never be the only thing.
@@franklinturtleton6525 I'm actually not a fan of the bus fight either. It was in an awkward place of being too "Jackie Chan" yet not "Jackie Chan" enough. The CGI background also lessens it.
I prefer the fight scene when Wenwu met his wife. A fine homage to Wuxia films and it carried some nuance, instead of just a simple fight scene.
@@peterfrank3365 yeah Guardians Vol. 3 is wonderful and, to be Fair, most Of James Gunn Work is like an exception to this problem.
If you compare action on Guardians 1 and 2 and the other films the characters play (infinite Wars, Endgame, Thor Love & Thunder) there's a certain diference.
There's the director extra caring and probably also the feedback Of criticisms Marvel/Disney received the last 10 years. They allready course-corrected some stuff (Like the unstopable one-linners for a Quick laugh) but not always Work. Quantumania still a terrible movie on ALL possible reasons, including the abuse Of CGI and flatt characters and blend story.
But ... John Wick ia there ... Dungeons and Dragons have really decent fight and action scenes... There is Hope!
Good point with Hero at the end, since that also uses CG...but it's used to enhance the story and characters, not be the focal point.
Bruh, Chronicles of Red Sword is pure kino and you can't convince me otherwise. It has actual choreography with CGI, it looks legit cool and with cool ass music.
Totally agree. I remember really enjoying Strom Riders and Dragon Tiger Gate when they first came out (never saw a man called Hero) but even then I felt that there were somethings missing from the action scenes.
I clicked on this video skeptical. I never thought I would ever see a bad fight from Hong Kong.
This video proved me wrong. If a fight scene ends up boring you, then it is for sure a bad fight.
I heard so much about these three franchises! But most people agree the comics are way better not just for doing what movies wouldn't at the time but actually having stakes that feel real. I mean there were angles that gave a sense of unbelievable power mixed with mental images. These movies are just what live-action adaptations get typecast for, shameless cash grabs that use flashy CGI to get people interested with aesthetics. But have no weight behind them.
When done right fight scenes can look so awesome, but if they’re bad fight scenes, they look REALLY bad.
Funny enough, I think Hero also has one of the best fantasy sword fights in film. The fight between Hero's master and Invincible.
Thanks for the nostalgia trip, The Storm Riders is actually quite good in my tinted memory, but mostly the plot owing to source material, same goes for A Man Called Hero, I just can't remember the CG scene for better or worse. That said, one thing from A Man Called Hero that wasn't source material is that kick ass piece of main theme (forgot if played at intro or at the end).
I've stopped watching video essays but damn man, you really are good enough to bring me back
You're making feel ashamed for still having my VCD copies of Storm Riders and A Man Called Hero 🤣🤣
There is no happiness higher than rest ❤
I remember I used to say to myself, "any martial arts movie starring Ekin Cheng is bad." just because he starred in a lot of those PSX FMV-quality of movies.
Not just martial arts, remember how bad the cgi was in the racing movie with him and Simon Yam?
@@MCHuang oh yeah. The one where they said they go faster by cutting the speedometer cable? That's stupid really....
Funny that you said A Man Called Hero is hard to find even in torrent sites. This movie got replayed so many times in a local Indonesian channel and dubbed, even the last time was like some weeks ago.
It's kinda amazing how Stephen Chow managed to have a studio with so much better cgi works for his action comedy movies than these epic wuxia movies.
Clear vision beats good budget.
A Man Called Hero was the very first wuxia movie I ever watched when I was a kid, I remember it fondly. Watching a final battle that looked like a live action Dragon Ball Z scene (much better than the actual live action DBZ movie Hollywood made years later) was amazing, and I had the same feeling watching the final fight in Matrix Revolutions. To each his own I guess. I can understand however the argument against CGI overuse, current Hollywood superhero films are filled with CGI doubles and actors standing and doing nothing. It's somewhat similar to the argument against early 3D polygonal games in regards that they don't age very well.
"If your fight is actually good, why would you speed it up,..." - I think you really hit the nail on the head here. At a time when Hollywood action flicks like John Wick are celebrating realistic action, long takes, and generally eschewing unnecessary special effects. It seems that, ironically, we're getting "better" action / martial arts in the West, instead of the East.
The only good John Wick films are the 1st and the 4th. And the 4th relies a lot of asian martial artists and the 1st being on anime.
And tbh, even western-wise, John Wick is amateur compared to gun-kata found in Equilibrium.
@@JakeFLM Soi Cheang isn't a committed action director (he mostly directs thrillers and dramas) and a lot of his action movies are either VFX heavy spectacle action like the movies being criticized in this video, or manga adaptations. He made SPL II, which is great, but also a massive digression from the style of the first movie.
nah, John Wick is the exception to the rule. They do not even compare to amateur fight choreography of the east. Watch more movies.
Yugo Sakamoto is an indie director, and Brett Chan works in the United States. Kenji Tanigaki and Donnie Yen are amazing action performers, but their record as directors is somewhat spotty.
@@rimaq_ John Wick is largely better than most DTV Chinese actioners.
Oh man, all these titles were my childhood. I read the dragon tiger gate comic, never watch the movie tho. Watch the Storm Riders movie and tv adaptation, I remember complaining why they talk so much in the tv series - just fight already. Last, I remember the fight on the liberty statue but completely forgot the title of the movie.
I don't remember they all bad fight scene, but then again I was a child.
Omg I love Storm Riders 😢 Takes me right back to my childhood. Wind, Cloud, it's definitely cheese but I still appreciate it.
Bollywood is a interesting foil to this. What is done differently that makes Bollywood cgi an enjoyable selling point while it takes away for Hong Kong action?
Storm Riders was the first martial arts film with CGI and I really enjoyed it as a kid.
Alas, I remember it fondly but I hardly think about it
wow, first? 😳
needed a nice vid to watch while on the bus, thank you!
I don't have any concrete evidence, but it's surely the "human cost" that leads to the prevalence of CG effects in action movies. You would need people that are trained in martial arts, stunt coordinators, insurance for the performers, and so on. It's good to see that there are plenty of movies in recent years that have committed to having actors/performers do the stunts practically where possible.
I think this video should be renamed Bad CGI in Hong Kong films
I thought of all three movies' success as primarily attributable to them being adaptations of manhua with some of the biggest fan bases out there. I was one of them, and remember being very excited about my favorite stories being turned into film. No disagreement with the CGI and the movies overall falling short, but my point of view there was that they tried but did not find a good enough life action approach to interpret an art form originally painted with colored ink. Some of the silly "impressionistic" scenes were faithful in style to how the original manhua portrayed fights, but while looking fantastic on paper it failed pretty bad on screen.
I agree with the conclusion. I may be old, but I had more fun with old action movies.
I enjoyed all three of those movies in my youth as they were all based on comic books. And I watched anything based on comic books. While not great movies they certainly had a lot of style.
Hero (2002) is such a great counterexample, because it has some very poorly aged CGI in it, but it's so beautiful that it doesn't matter
I was really intrigued when you put Dragon Tiger Gate as an example for bad fight scenes since it's got absolutely phenomenal ones, it's a Donnie Yen movie after all! But then that CGI came up and, yeah, it was brief but it was sad.
The best old CGI fight scene was the final fight in The Duel with Andy Lau. The two swordsman fighting on the forbidden city was timeless. It was also a pretty funny movie as well.
I recall that they actually cut out a few minutes of scenes from the original DVD release of Man Called Hero in response to criticism, something I've only ever seen one other movie do (Battlefield Earth)
Glad to hear that Kung Fu Hustle wasn't on the list! Would love to hear any more thoughts you have on that movie
0:44 Oh, I remember this time period... 😔
1:27 I still vividly remember this film. My dad was expecting a regular HK action film and was bewildered by the story and just everything about it.
3:04 Noooooo how can you say that! He spent so long training inside that bell!
Ironically, these scenes remind me of my childhood watching Ultraman and Power Rangers XD Seems like a very similar "vibe", heh
I watched Dragon Tiger Gate in Samoa and we were gobsmacked. It was so cool watching it, especially being young.
Wow, you're right "A Man Called Hero" truly doesn't exist even in illegal streaming, only the new version.
ua-cam.com/video/4CSBW2UNOW8/v-deo.html
Dude that took literally 2 seconds to find
I still have vcds/dvds of those movies, which I now cannot play cause my last player broke down years ago. They are now just relics from another era....
Storm Raiders was great at the time, I was in my 20s. That said I loved Dragon Inn as well. Donny Was the KING, SPL was amazing and super underrated. Oh i need to rewatch Young and Dangerous
There is an army of old men shouting at clouds- though we can't quite agree on what we should be shouting...
It's nice to know that no matter what region of the world you were in, thanks to the beginning steps of CGI as well as confused generational mishaps that the early 2000s cinema was a fever dream in every culture. 😂
I think I read somewhere that 萬梓良 was originally the first choice of Uncle Tak's role (田雞 interview I think).
The shot at 3:39 reminds of part of the finale from the Korean action film 'The City of Violence'
Those are classic comics so they have a lot of built-in fans and they actually portrayed the original fight pretty faithfully
I had a DVD copy of A Man Called Hero back when I was in primary school. I actually like the story and fight a lot. The final fight is bad but some fight scenes with less cgi are actually pretty good. Still, I admit nostalgia plays a big part in my good impression towards it.
I remember watching storm riders as a kid and then dragon tiger gate and a man named hero a bit after I found them when I got a bit older. I think the biggest take away I got was that I should go back and read Storm Riders manhua :P I found some translated versions online but never the complete set unfortunately. I love that kinda stuff still and wish someone would create a cinematic universe for them :P
Same here. Big fan and I've been disappointed (for a couple decades now) that none of the adaptations have measured up to the original work. All three titles have huge fan bases and a gigantic potential market.