I agree this article was much more nuanced and scientific than the previous Guardian article and isn't trying to distort the limited evidence the way the previous article did. It does make me wonder about if and how all these conditions might affect those species with bigger brains than us or those with higher brain-to-body ratios than us - as well as those species with complex social structures. I know that obsessive compulsive symptoms, self-injurious behaviours and phobias for example, have been documented in a range of species so it makes me wonder if complex conditions such as adhd & autism are also present in animals. It would be hard to detect all of these in wild animals of course.
I did read somewhere that although autism is a human disorder, there is ongoing research into whether or not dogs can be "autistic." The article suggested that there is a collection of symptoms including not being able to interact well with others, just staring at one spot, not liking change and sensory issues that occur in dogs, I think that it was called something like "canine behavioural dysfunction." If this is indeed the equivalent of "doggy autism," I wonder how long before the neurodiversity movement/autistic pride lot start getting upset about the word "dysfunction?" Dogs like us don't tend to live wild, though there are still feral and street dogs, as well as free ranging dogs that are owned yet roam freely. I suppose the living in human society or even on the fringes could help such animals survive if they could avoid conflict with others, as there is the possibility of scavenging food solo or being fed by humans. I think that there are many autistic humans who only survive these days because we don't have to live in tribes unlike in ancient times - I count myself amongst that number. However, there was one study that suggests that dogs who are born for generations as feral dogs may be cognitively unique from their purely domesticated counterparts. It would still be worth researching the behaviours of feral/street dogs deemed "autistic" and to see how the interactions with other dogs play out. I don't know much about it but I do know that sometimes, there are cases of lone cetaceans, often dolphins, who actively seem to attempt to seek out and prefer human contact. Could these animals be experiencing some sort of neurological disorder akin to autism that makes them this way? I say this as someone who gets on way better with animals, especially dogs than I do human beings. It would be close to impossible to measure brain activity/brain scan a wild cetacean unless we could somehow invent a way to do it without confining them. Nevertheless, it would be intriguing to measure the differences in one of these animals versus a healthy control, as well as to make a log of how this may or may not be similar to human presentations of neurodevelopmental disorders. Perhaps the way development goes awry in other species could give us clues to causations and predispositions amongst our own? Primates would be an excellent group to study given that they are a lot like us and are close relatives. I would expect to see amongst them, as amongst humans, a dislike and active harming of an animal that is considered too different to be part of the social group. This could possibly be a reason why we wouldn't find many "autistic" creatures to study, as a lot of them are weeded out by other animals either killing them outright or simply abandoning them to die alone. Lab experiments have produced mice with autism-like traits for research. Such mice are not interested in others and exhibit repetitive grooming of their own fur. Even if we cannot find a naturally occurring model of non-human autism, it seems that it is possible to tweak some DNA to produce something similar. The fact that it can be produced under lab conditions perhaps hints that it is theoretically possible for it to be going on out there in the wild.
Not sure how some may think this does not relate. I see connections some don't. I'm not able, on the top of my head, to put the connections I see into words. The Earth's water cycle centrally is about exactly two things: 1) the cycling of 2) water. That's mostly liquid water, then water vapor, then water ice. It also involves gravity, volume, atomic forces, and the particular fraction of the Sun's energy that reaches Earth. But, for the Earth's own part, the Water Cycle is about H2O, ordinary water. But, even more than just water, it's quite specifically about the cycling of water. It's not mainly about water ice, much less about water ice only. It's a CYCLING of water. It's like the joke about the proverbial martian scientist who hears about pianos. He is told that a piano is for making music, and so he asks what music is. He decides that he understands the answer that humans give him. And he has decided that 'music is sounds'. He likes sounds. So he goes to the piano store to buy a piano. He happily buys one and takes it back to his home on Mars. He waits for it to make sounds. And waits, and waits, and waits. He is patient, as Martians are. So he waits a very long time. Finally, he begins to think: 'Either a piano, as such, is a case of "snake oil" fraud, or this instance of a piano that I have bought is defective." So he flies back to Earth, and spies out piano stores to determine the answer. The trouble is, Martians, by definition, are blind. And, what's worse, they have no concept of sight. So, it takes him some time, but finally, he learns that pianos, as such, are not fraudulent products: they do indeed make sounds. So then he goes back to the particular piano store where he bought his piano and informs the proprietor that the piano that that store had sold him does not make sounds. But, since Martians are so very positive and always assuming the best of others, he simply buys another piano, and takes it home to Mars. He fully expects this second piano will make sounds. But, he waits and waits and waits. Finally, he assumes it is simply dumb luck that he has bought two defective pianos. For, 'surely,' he thinks, 'at least the vast bulk of pianos cannot be defective. It is by sheer coincidence that the two rare defective pianos have been bought by me.' For, this is just how Martians think. They are neutrally objective, patient, and they always, always, always believe only the best of everyone at all times, under virtually all conditions. Needless to say, this Martian acquires many pianos before he ever begins to suspect that he has no clue how it is that a piano manages to make sounds. Somebody's gotta 'dance' on the keys. Otherwise, the piano has no clue what kinds of sounds you want it to make. It makes sounds only when you keep 'dancing' on the keys. It's a constant relationship, just like a conversation. The Earth's water cycle is very much about water. But it just as much is about the cycle on that water. It's a two-member kind of relationship. And the Earth's own part in that marriage is made up of basically three things. One, rotation, so as to have a day-night cycle of thermal flow. Two, the atmosphere of just the right kind. Three, the land/sea surface thermal exchange system. Those three parts continually interact. Genesis 1 gives exactly five reports of God naming things. These five namings seem to be of: 1. the thermally regulative day/night cycle ('day' and 'night', v. 5); 2. the thermally regulative atmosphere ('shamayim', v. 8); 3. the land/sea surface thermal exchange system ('earth' and 'seas', v. 10).
Hey Anna! I'm also autistic and I'm an autism advocate! I wanted ask if it's okay to connect with you to share experiences? Is there any way we can connect? Do you have an email or any social medias? Thanks! Would be great to talk to you! Hope you have a great day!
BRILLIANT Anna, life is a comprise right down to our marrow.
Interesting.
I agree this article was much more nuanced and scientific than the previous Guardian article and isn't trying to distort the limited evidence the way the previous article did. It does make me wonder about if and how all these conditions might affect those species with bigger brains than us or those with higher brain-to-body ratios than us - as well as those species with complex social structures. I know that obsessive compulsive symptoms, self-injurious behaviours and phobias for example, have been documented in a range of species so it makes me wonder if complex conditions such as adhd & autism are also present in animals. It would be hard to detect all of these in wild animals of course.
I did read somewhere that although autism is a human disorder, there is ongoing research into whether or not dogs can be "autistic." The article suggested that there is a collection of symptoms including not being able to interact well with others, just staring at one spot, not liking change and sensory issues that occur in dogs, I think that it was called something like "canine behavioural dysfunction." If this is indeed the equivalent of "doggy autism," I wonder how long before the neurodiversity movement/autistic pride lot start getting upset about the word "dysfunction?"
Dogs like us don't tend to live wild, though there are still feral and street dogs, as well as free ranging dogs that are owned yet roam freely. I suppose the living in human society or even on the fringes could help such animals survive if they could avoid conflict with others, as there is the possibility of scavenging food solo or being fed by humans. I think that there are many autistic humans who only survive these days because we don't have to live in tribes unlike in ancient times - I count myself amongst that number. However, there was one study that suggests that dogs who are born for generations as feral dogs may be cognitively unique from their purely domesticated counterparts. It would still be worth researching the behaviours of feral/street dogs deemed "autistic" and to see how the interactions with other dogs play out.
I don't know much about it but I do know that sometimes, there are cases of lone cetaceans, often dolphins, who actively seem to attempt to seek out and prefer human contact. Could these animals be experiencing some sort of neurological disorder akin to autism that makes them this way? I say this as someone who gets on way better with animals, especially dogs than I do human beings. It would be close to impossible to measure brain activity/brain scan a wild cetacean unless we could somehow invent a way to do it without confining them. Nevertheless, it would be intriguing to measure the differences in one of these animals versus a healthy control, as well as to make a log of how this may or may not be similar to human presentations of neurodevelopmental disorders. Perhaps the way development goes awry in other species could give us clues to causations and predispositions amongst our own?
Primates would be an excellent group to study given that they are a lot like us and are close relatives. I would expect to see amongst them, as amongst humans, a dislike and active harming of an animal that is considered too different to be part of the social group. This could possibly be a reason why we wouldn't find many "autistic" creatures to study, as a lot of them are weeded out by other animals either killing them outright or simply abandoning them to die alone.
Lab experiments have produced mice with autism-like traits for research. Such mice are not interested in others and exhibit repetitive grooming of their own fur. Even if we cannot find a naturally occurring model of non-human autism, it seems that it is possible to tweak some DNA to produce something similar. The fact that it can be produced under lab conditions perhaps hints that it is theoretically possible for it to be going on out there in the wild.
Not sure how some may think this does not relate. I see connections some don't. I'm not able, on the top of my head, to put the connections I see into words.
The Earth's water cycle centrally is about exactly two things: 1) the cycling of 2) water.
That's mostly liquid water, then water vapor, then water ice. It also involves gravity, volume, atomic forces, and the particular fraction of the Sun's energy that reaches Earth.
But, for the Earth's own part, the Water Cycle is about H2O, ordinary water. But, even more than just water, it's quite specifically about the cycling of water.
It's not mainly about water ice, much less about water ice only. It's a CYCLING of water.
It's like the joke about the proverbial martian scientist who hears about pianos. He is told that a piano is for making music, and so he asks what music is. He decides that he understands the answer that humans give him. And he has decided that 'music is sounds'.
He likes sounds. So he goes to the piano store to buy a piano. He happily buys one and takes it back to his home on Mars. He waits for it to make sounds. And waits, and waits, and waits. He is patient, as Martians are. So he waits a very long time.
Finally, he begins to think: 'Either a piano, as such, is a case of "snake oil" fraud, or this instance of a piano that I have bought is defective." So he flies back to Earth, and spies out piano stores to determine the answer.
The trouble is, Martians, by definition, are blind. And, what's worse, they have no concept of sight. So, it takes him some time, but finally, he learns that pianos, as such, are not fraudulent products: they do indeed make sounds.
So then he goes back to the particular piano store where he bought his piano and informs the proprietor that the piano that that store had sold him does not make sounds. But, since Martians are so very positive and always assuming the best of others, he simply buys another piano, and takes it home to Mars. He fully expects this second piano will make sounds.
But, he waits and waits and waits. Finally, he assumes it is simply dumb luck that he has bought two defective pianos. For, 'surely,' he thinks, 'at least the vast bulk of pianos cannot be defective. It is by sheer coincidence that the two rare defective pianos have been bought by me.'
For, this is just how Martians think. They are neutrally objective, patient, and they always, always, always believe only the best of everyone at all times, under virtually all conditions.
Needless to say, this Martian acquires many pianos before he ever begins to suspect that he has no clue how it is that a piano manages to make sounds. Somebody's gotta 'dance' on the keys. Otherwise, the piano has no clue what kinds of sounds you want it to make. It makes sounds only when you keep 'dancing' on the keys. It's a constant relationship, just like a conversation.
The Earth's water cycle is very much about water. But it just as much is about the cycle on that water. It's a two-member kind of relationship.
And the Earth's own part in that marriage is made up of basically three things. One, rotation, so as to have a day-night cycle of thermal flow. Two, the atmosphere of just the right kind. Three, the land/sea surface thermal exchange system. Those three parts continually interact.
Genesis 1 gives exactly five reports of God naming things. These five namings seem to be of:
1. the thermally regulative day/night cycle ('day' and 'night', v. 5);
2. the thermally regulative atmosphere ('shamayim', v. 8);
3. the land/sea surface thermal exchange system ('earth' and 'seas', v. 10).
Hey Anna! I'm also autistic and I'm an autism advocate! I wanted ask if it's okay to connect with you to share experiences? Is there any way we can connect? Do you have an email or any social medias? Thanks! Would be great to talk to you! Hope you have a great day!