Definitely demonstrably a wrong POV concerning Kelsey Grammar as the Beast. First, as a graduate of the inaugurate class of Prof Xavier's School of Gifted Students, Hank McCoy wholeheartedly embraced his Homo Superior-ness and was a vocal advocate for Mutant acceptance as a member of the Avengers in the 1970's. As told by Roger Stern, Hank McCoy mutated HIMSELF into the Furry Beast as his original mutations presented mostly as a passable Homo Sapiens. His intent in doing so was to demonstrate publicly his solidarity with those mutants who couldn't pass for Homo Sapiens like Warren Worthington or the Summers brothers. Then someone on this movie production twisted Hank MCCoy's character to one that psychologically suffers under his physical mutations despite the fact he holds a public position high in the USA presidential administration. That's like twisting MLK's "I have a dream" into "Once all blacks bleach their skin, straighten their hair and style themselves as Nordic socialists, American society can be at peace with it self." (See the Shogun of Harlem for the correct response to that scenario) After that brain fuck, the script given Kelsey Grammer was devoid of four to five syllable words that would force the 8 to 12 year old audience members running for their dictionaries OR oblique references to classical literary writers, composers or scientists. Go pick up any issue featuring the Beast penned by Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Denny O'Neill, Roger Stern or Chris Claremont if you don't know what I mean. Lastly, because I can go on for another hour on this topic, "Oh My Stars and Garters" was not YELLED at a critical juncture in the action alerting all the heroes of the gravity of the situation. It sucked as bad as Chris Evans' "Avengers Assemble" in End Game or (Oh Stan, forgive them for what they did) Namor's "Imperious Rex" in Wakanda Forever. Catch phrases are NOT to be MUMBLED, just look at any word bubble pre 1990 containing the words "Oh My Stars and Garters". Ask yourself, who would Bart Simpson be if he only ever whispered "Kowabunga" or his father groaned "Doh" under his breath. Yes, these points have nothing to do with Kelsey Grammer. However, he is only an actor and his lack of familiarity with the source material meant he had no reason to push back on the pile of unmentionables he was given. That's why he was a terrible casting choice. NUFF SAID
I'll give you that one, that compared to the absolute horse shit marvel is flinging at us today, "Last Stand" was a masterpiece. However, at the time I absolutely hated it!!
You mean you don't think that Disney and the MCU has learned it's lesson with DeadPool and Wolverine, and that both the Fantastic Four and X-Men reboots will be brilliant and well done? I am shocked! I tell you sir, shocked! 🤣NOT.
I know I thought this movie was shit when it came out but after what we got for about the last 8 years, I went back and watched this and a few other movies I thought sucked back then and thought "maybe I judged these a bit unfairly."
Agreed, I've always enjoyed this movie personally. I have come to appreciate it even more because it feels so different than the MCU. Feels much more mature.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp back then, yeah I shit on it a lot but still liked the action scenes and whatnot but the movie itself is still pretty enjoyable I have to say, I've only come to like it more and I think the movies like Days of Future Past and Apocalypse almost made it age better as part of that continuity too, I don't know, that's just an opinion.
@@eskanda3434 Says you. I liked it. I don't care for Bryan Singer's stuff .. He's got some great sequences, but overall I think his movies are a bit dull. First Class was good fun .. All that 'Children of the Atom' stuff set in the Cold War era .. that and they did a great job with the classic X-Men Blue and Yellow flight suits. Magneto was badass and I loved his theme music. .. Besides that Michael Ironside makes an appearance ... Any movie with that dude in it scores a point for me. 😁
Brett Ratner can be a competent Director from time to time, but nothing about Red Dragon or Rush Hour 1 & 2 would've made one say: "Oh - he'd be PERFECT for an X-Men movie!!" In a sense, he was the warning that the Producers of The Eternals should've paid attention to.
Red Dragon was a huge disappointment also. Much preferred Michael Mann’s 80’s version “Manhunter”? That ending shootout with the police to Iron Butterfly, is a thing of beauty .
I hated that: - They killed Jean Gray, Charles Xavier - They made Magneto, Mystique impotent - They made Scott a loser - They didn't kill Rogue That said, the movie was a lot better than the trash they've been releasing since 2021.
If you are talking about having their powers taken away, they come back before the end credits. However, considering Magneto moved an entire bridge, I think he still fought well and it showed the humans actually adapting with using plastic guns/bullets.
Magneto's words in that movie after Xavier's death to the mutant who disrespected him "That man did more for mutants than you ever will". He respected Charles and mourned in his own way.
My frustration is that the X-Men franchise loses all sense of continuity after Last Stand. In Days of Future Past, there’s suddenly a robotic apocalypse and Professor X is alive again. It was as if there was a missing film that was never made. At the end of Future Past, it’s also unclear how much of the original trilogy actually happened after the time travel. In Logan, we yet again get a hush time jump. Everyone was fine at the end of Future Past, but now there’s an apocalypse again? The continuity just doesn’t add up. At least the first three films felt like a complete story.
The post credits scene of Last Stand implies Charles came back, but yeah they really screw it up. The post credits scene of Last Stand has Charles waking up and saying "Moira". Moira than says "Charles", again, implying Charles had a backup plan. I guess the idea is he had a braindead twin brother and when Jean killed him, he shifted his consciousness into his twin brother. It was set up at the end of Last Stand, but Last Stand not being well liked kinda ruined it. What is also annoying though is when we get to events set decades prior... we see a significantly younger Moira. Which basically shows they abandoned their original plan for Moira after Last Stand.
The continuity is messy. Works well enough that you can ignore some things, but should've been tighter. Also, Professor X was revealed to move his conciseness to a comatose twin of Charles that they introduced earlier. And The Wolverine movie is what teases Days of Future Past with its mid credit scene. Teases Trask Industries and sees the return of Professor X and Magneto together. Talking about an upcoming conflict that's coming. That leads us to Days of Future Past.
John Powell's score is absolutely amazing, and as a composer myself I am influenced by it to this day. His score for the scene where professor Xavier meets his end, the desperation of Wolverine clawing his way slowly across the ceiling trying to reach him, has an unmatched balance of intense action and emotional weight. Powell reuses these ideas during the final battle as well, with Logan trying to reach Jean herself, this time with a touch of epic choirs. One of my all-time favorite film scores. 👍🏻
@@anthonylogiudice9215 It doesn't, at least if you have to watch the rest of the movie besides the Sabertooth parts it doesn't. When the B plot is stronger than the A plot then you movie has issues.
Funny enough, the co-writer of this film wrote and directed the last X-Men film Dark Phoenix, much of which is an almost beat-for-beat remake of this film, as his redemption for helping to make The Last Stand, and made Dark Phoenix even worse.
Hollywood seems forget to make the woodpile before creating a bonfire. If they never give the audience a reason to connect with Jean grey as a character, her becoming the phoenix and going wild doesn't carry much weight with the audience. They are so set on the destruction of things, they aren't willing do the proper build up. The original phoenix/dark phoenix was a big deal because Grey was the nicest girl, and was always thought of as the weakest member of the Xmen. The films barely touch on her as a character, and jump right to her going phoenix and lack any of the other aspects of why she had make sacrifices as it such as to protect the universe above her own desires. To put a human host full of emotion at the helm of godly power, and not have it corrupt or overwhelm it. (later they retconned it to where Jean wasn't the phoenix in the comics, but then they made her become the phoenix again anyways.)
It still blows my mind that they cast a sissy boy with a falsetto voice as one of the most epic MCU villains of all time??? He was not imposing or scary, just some Ivan Ooze larper aimlessly walking the earth.
What about X-Men Evolution? I think it is _still_ the very best depiction of Scott and Jean as individual, well-realised characters individually, as well as the best depiction of their romance as a believable and genuine one, that we see build from starting as friends. Even compared to ‘97, I’d say the depiction of Scott is still superior, and ‘97’s was excellent in itself.
Great movie, with glaring problems: 1. The killing of Scott and Xavier (fans didn't want that) 2. The Phoenix story being done differently (fans had another expectation) 3. Magneto chose to make his home base in the woods where there is no metal (lol, what?) 4. The underutilization of Kelsey Grammar as Beast (fans wanted more). 5. The Phoenix doesn't do much except stand there to be Wolverine's life interest (weak writing for the most badass female character in the X-Men franchise) Take away the first problem, and we could have let the other stuff slide. But in combination, it was just a bit too much.
There's too many things happening, as the whole cure was a big enough story beat on it's own. Jean never got build up enough as a character for the audience to really care about her being unleashed. She wasn't really a chaarcter, but a plot device who stood around for the majority of the movie. The dark phoenix/phoenix thing was wasted as a subplot to this movie.(it's sad they bothered fumbled thru this storyline idea twice.) You could put any generic but powerful henchman in her place and the movie would been largely the same.
I loved 1. It was shocking and refreshing. I can't recall that many superhero movies where one of main characters is killed in the very beginning. It helped raise the stakes and let the audience know that any character can die at any point. And sure enough - 2 more of the main characters die later.
@@TabalugaDragon That's what people who say who don't give a crap about characters. Oh yay they let people die...that's the Zack Snyder School of thought. There's bigger stakes than death in stories. Making people live with their screw ups is and betrayals is far more impactful. Death should be used sparingly, and mean something when it happens. Cyclops got killed in such a spiteful manner it was clear the execs want to get back at the actor for working on another film, and it had nothing do with making the narrative stronger for it. The movie couldn't manage the character count it had effectively, and the last battle only had a few Xmen characters helping nameless humans defend the prison. I witnessed a crap ton of characters die in the 1986 transformers movie ...I ABSOLUTELY HATED IT. It wasn't refreshing or shocking, it was just cheap deaths they figured the audience would just root for the replacement squad...they were wrong. It greatlty angered fans. The fact this lesson doesn't stick with people shows how little people pay attention. When characters are treated as speedbumps for the plot, just shows the writers don't care, and neither should the audience. There's genres where high body counts make sense, like Horror movies, but in a series of films where you are investing the audience in the story of characters, killing people willy nilly just is a huge turn off. If you need kill people, introduce some red shirts to take one of the team.
@@Lastjustice stop talking to me like to a kid who has barely seen cinema in his life. I've seen a ton. Yes, Scott's death was refreshing as this thing is pretty much never done. I never watched that Transformers movie but I heard that they killed the old characters because they wanted new toys. Scott in X-men was killed on the other hand 1. Because like you said, scheduling issues, they pretty much had no choice. 2. To show what monster Jean has become. There is no better way to do this than to her killed the man she loved most. 3. To show that that was(at that point) the last movie in the franchise and demonstrate perfectly that none of the main characters are safe. My reaction when I saw this was overwhelmingly positive. And it's one thing when they kill off the most interesting character of the franchise, it's another when he never really did that much in the previous 2 movies like in this case. And Charles's death was a masterpiece. The acting, the VFX, the music. I must have watched that scene like 20 times. And you won't convince me otherwise.
@@TabalugaDragon You clearly don't grasp cinemia or story telling on a level remotely as well as you think. If you watched as movies as you claim, why you have such a pisspoor understanding of them? Charles death which you call a masterpiece proves exactly why your take is poor. They UNDID IT in the same exact movie. (Mic drop) I could probably stop there as this alone ravages your entire block of nonsense. If X3 wasn't willing let a death stand then they probably should have never done it in the first place. Who cares if anyone can did if they come right back? There's no stakes in that either. Cyclops could simply been injured and sidelined, as him being alive to handle Jean would been far more impactful. This is the love of this life, and having kill her for the greater good adds far more weight than Wolverine doing it (These movies only care about Wolverine, and did Scott dirty.). Again you only thinking there was no other answer to this proves you have lack imagination. They killed him out of spite, as the film doesn't even act like the audience should feel bad Scott is dead as it takes no real time confirm for sure he is dead even. Jean kills him for reasons.... Killing them both removes Cable as a future character(He's their kid.), so I assumed they'd want to use him at some point, and would retcon this from the moment it happened. It was never going stand. When you kill a crap ton of characters pointlessly, they get undone because people will still want to use X character or they are just too important for the franchise to drop them. (This exactly what happened with Optimus Prime, the show suffered greatly post movie till fans demanded he got brought back.) If Death is done sparingly, then you don't have to undo it and can let whatever deaths that do happen stand. They can have impact and be something major to the story rather than shock value cheap deaths which devalue death and the characters. Xmen was in shambles after X 3 and they didn't erase because it was a masterpeice. Again they undid the entire film from existence it was that bad. They went to First Class purely as a reaction to X3, but decided to let the show go on despite how badly it was. People don't make good movies noncanon to series. So your garbage hottake failed hard. They undid everything you liked...so you couldn't be more wrong. This just isn't my opinion here..this actual facts of why you fail here.
The movie was so bad, the studio had to start a new continuity and series of prequel films to utterly recon Last Stand out of existence. It literally took them the best part of a _decade_ to undo the damage caused by Last Stand…and then after fixing it, go onto make the same mistakes again.
It's a complicated answer when it comes to the Last Stand. - I think The Last Stand was made better with The Wolverine (2013) and Days of the Future Past, which utilized the aftermath of The Last Stand's story. - It's one of those cases where future movies (at least until Dark Phoenix) actually redeemed The Last Stand. - However, I agree that Xavier's return was never handled right. All they needed was a few extra lines of dialogue explaining how Xavier came back to life, but they never really explained it. Heck, they could have made an argument that this Xavier is from another universe where his original X-Men were completely wiped out. Anything would have worked instead of saying nothing to the audience.
I enjoyed it even with them treating Phoenix dirty. Dark Phoenix is one of my favorite villains in Marvel and would love to see her properly represented in a movie.
They're are a lot of cool parts like the opening sequence with Angel, Kelsey is great as Beast, Magneto ripping of the bridge, and the final battle with X-Men vs an army of Brotherhood of Mutants. What I hated about Last Stand is Magento don't share of care when Xavier died, too much storyline cramp into one, the portrayed of Juggernaut who has no connection to Xavier and doesn't look right, where the hell is Nightcrawler, Angel was completely wasted and only shows up at the end of the film to save his dad. Overall, it's not great, but it's way better than X-Men: Dark Phoenix.
As I understood it, the actor who plays Cyclops wasn’t available to do the whole movie. Killing off his character was the solution. The alternative would have been to find a new actor to play Cyclops.
Or just injure Cyclops to where he was sidelined for a bit. Killing him was the spite play from execs. Him being around for Jean to die or having to play a role in her death would made it a bigger deal.
Or just not film it when he is doing another movie OR they should have locked their cast into contracts. and Marsden I can understand would rather play the "other guy" to Clark Kent/Supes for Lois Lane (lame choice) but considering how they did Scott Summers/Cyclops dirty in these movies I can see why he'd look for other roles. Overall, Marsden should fire his agent.
@@86BarbOmega Which the odd part is Bryan Singer choose to under use Scott, but opted to bring James Marsden along for the role in Superman returns. Given how wildly boring and creepy Superman Returns is(Deadbeat dad/stalker superman), I'd rather Bryan Singer just stuck with making Xmen 3(I doubt whatever he made would been worst than Last Stand,), and let someone else make a Superman movie. I think James Marsden was great casting for Cyclops, as he owns the boyscout roles in movies. He just never got the chance to do as these movies were just so damn stuck on Wolverine. I like Logan, but he was overplayed too much.
Your opinion is fine and has value but we are talking about a movie where some random nobody character gets the drop on Wolverine IN A WOODED SETTING. If you don't know what's wrong with that, pick up a classical X-Men reprint PLEASE.
I did a rewatch of everything leading up to DP3, and definitely appreciated Last Stand's attempt, far more than DP3's abandonment, of anything resembling a coherent 'story'. Good review, agreed with everything you said.
Had they given Scott more to do and have him face off with Jean instead of Logan at the end, I would have liked it. Should have locked James Marsden into contract.
I hated the movie for killing off a favorite character (cyclops) from the get go and turning an otherwise likable lady hero into a villain (Phoenix). Oh, and they killed Xavier. Will never watch the movie again for these reasons.
Cyclops actually leaves the X-Men for a brief while in the comics too after Jean died so I can tell they were kind of borrowing from that storyline, that's around the time they brought in Kitty Pryde too. They could've had it where cyclops left for a while in the movie and then came back after collecting hisself and then helping in the end but then you probably wouldn't have had the scene of Logan stopping Jean at the end of the movie and maybe they thought it wouldn't conclude Logan's and Jean's love arc in the movie? I don't know.
No no you were onto something there, they should have had Cyclops and Logan work together to stop Jean. One is the distraction while the other sneaks up on her. James Marsden was not fully available, but they could have him leave in the beginning of the film and have him come back at then end, so his scenes were minimal. Ya know? work around it. Movies arent shot in order, so it was possible to do pick up shots and use Marsden when his schedule allowed it, but nope, it is easy from X1 and X2 that the writers or execs arent fans of the Cyclops character, they wanted to spotlight and focus on Wolverine, which I get it, he is cool but not at the expense of other characters, that is weak and wack.
I have always appreciated this movie for what it did and what it tried to do. I agree completely with your assessment of it. I still find a lot to enjoy about it and the last third of the film is definitely the best part of it.
Should also be noted that David Hayter was not involved in writing this one. That said, Kelsey Grammar was a fantastic choice for Beast and the practical makeup on him looks amazing.
I disagree. Sure there were plenty of bad superhero movies in the past few years, some of which were even worse than The Last Stand, but I can also give you examples of films that were way better (Gotg vol. 2, Across the spider-verse, Shang chi). We also got a pretty good animated X-men show this year. So, it's not Shakespeare by today's standards it still sucks.
I know it's far from the comics but I liked the Dark Phoenix take. They actually took time to lay the ground work in the previous movies. That scene in Jean's house is a stand out moment. The SFX, music, the performances and then what happened to Jean when she went Dark Phoenix was wonderfully creepy.
Jean wasn't invested in enough as character. She was barely established as anything personality wise, and the whole phoenix and dark phoenix thing is wasted as a concept. For her fall down you need the audience to care enough about her original character in the first place. You really don't, so it falls flat.
I remember when it came out, and I was told I was supposed to hate it. I was never sure why. Sure Cyclops was mistreated, but that was true of the entire series. The Phoenix story was disappointing, but they still have yet to get that right. I don't know, I thought it was fine.
the comment about X2 at 7:00 had me chuckling. I havent watched these movies in YEARS, probably 15 or so... but I remember the first and third vividly... but I have NO memory about the second one.
The X Men movies are massive lumps of shiit. Spider Man looks like Spider Man, but the X Men get these weird leather suits. The story lines are nothing like the story lines in the comics etc etc.
I have seen last stand like 6 times, but x2, I feel like once is enough. A few faults aside, it (LS) had it's seriously epic moments. Nobody ever talks about Magneto giving an epic speech, he just DOES it! And you go on with your lives, ignoring the signs all around you. It is only by that time you realize the speech has already begun.
You're right about Cyclops being underutilized. In most team up instances, the leader gets way more screen time. X-Men is different because Wolverine is far more popular and versatile, onscreen anyway.
Wolverine is better when he gets play off Cyclops. The two balance each other out as Wolverine is too headstrong, while Cyclops has a stick up his ass. No one ever pushes back on Wolverine in the movies really, and it takes away his character's role of being the shit stirrer of the team.
@@imakethesites3048 Logan is angry about so many things, as he can't remember most of his life, and doesn't like being told what to do. He's a bit of a loner, but he needs people as much as he grumbles, he knows deep down the Xmen are good for him. He hates himself because he has killed so many people, and sees himself as a potential threat to the Xmen at times. He has alot going on, and the films gloss over this in the first 3 films. You see him struggle with his identity alot more in the following films like Wolverine. Cyclops is there to keep the plot going even when Logan craps the bed. Logan can't be the lose canon and the guy who drives the plot at the same time. That's why you can have these two play off each other. A love triangle only works if you have a reason to see both potential suiters win, but the movies dump on cyclops like he's lame every chance they get. (he's a wussy who listens to backstreet boys when they take his car.)The first film was the only time we really see them try make these two work things out between them. After that Cyclops keeps getting sidelined then killed.
@@imakethesites3048 he's antisocial and a loner type, it kinda establishes that when we first meet him, when Rogue hitch hikes into his truck. He was gonna dump her on the road but because he is not a total pos, he gives her a lift. He doesnt like taking orders, he doesnt like following them, he doesnt like authority and does his own thing. A lone wolf type. Not a team player, his character arc was he worked with the others for their cause and to save Rogue (and the humans). The first film fleshes that out. Doesnt really flesh out the other Xmen team members much though.
I still say its bad. It is a lame and cop-out version of Dark Phoenix. The effects have bad and obvious wire-work shots. Its mostly a hodge podge of mutant and ability cameos on a thin story.
X-Men 3 screwed up by having both a Dark Phoenix story and the cure story in the same movie. For one, those two stories are completely unrelated. And two, you can't have Dark Phoenix without first having Phoenix (a mistake they erroneously double down on in the later film).
Fair points were made! For me I think the story arcs of the mutant “cure” and The Phoenix had too much material to cram into one film as they have lengthy story arcs of their own. That’s just me. “X2” as their “Wrath of Khan” was an interesting take 😂
It’s….a weird one. It exists to adapt the Dark Phoenix arc. Dare I say this has the best iconic quote that rings Juggernaut. It was thankfully retconned by Days of Future’s past as you said. Though I remembered the janky mid-2000’s Marvel Legends from Hasbro were so…..ehhh…
I was never an x-men fan. When I was younger I did read a few of the comics. But the movies were so different that I just watched them as movies with no connection. Similar to the fantastic 4 for me. Thank you Dave for the video.
It had one of my favorite Magneto moments. One of his henchmen said something (I forget what exactly) and Magneto immediately turns around and says something like, “Charles Xavier did more for mutants than you’ll ever know. My single greatest regret is that he had to die for our cause to live.” Really quick moment but it helped show how hurt he was by it and how much he did love and care for his friends, as ideologically opposed as they were.
I liked it because it was most like the comic book to me. It had that John Byrne issues 132-137 feel to it. It even pulled some of the same dialogue from the comics as well. It lacked the dramatic depth and cinematic grandeur of the first two, and it certainly had issues here and there, but overall I really enjoyed it!
Very much in agreement on all of your points. I will add a couple of things. The world did feel a little cheaper, things looked like sets and props. The first two movies somehow felt more real. While should be allowed to compare them to modern movies, many would say it looks better because newer movies were cruddy. We also need to judge it against movies of the day. Not just in terms of special effects and production values but the goals and values of the filmmakers.
I've only ever seen the first two films. I did like the theme "Logan and Rogue" from the X-Men soundtrack that was used when Logan let her absorb his healing power to save her life. It cost him by forcing him to relive his past injuries. The music is suprisingly moving.
Well said Dave. I liked it, when I saw it in the cinema.... but that doesn't mean it was great, although it was a decent Xmen film. Stewart and McKellen put in strong performances. Your comments about Cyclops are spot on, Cyclops was a major Xmen character in the comics, but just a side character in the films. I thought Xavier's death scene was quite moving ( the score is great in the part). As an adaptation of the epic "Dark Phoenix" story it was poor... but still a lot better than Simon Kinberg's Dark Phoenix film. Last Stand also introduced us to Ellen Page..... look where that went. All in all I'd agree it is definitely undeserving of the dislike that it receives (especially in hindsight with the awful superhero movies of 2019-2024).
I think it could've been better if Mystique died from being hit with the cure. If Mystique died, rather than simply losing her powers, then it would've shown that the cure is fatal to certain mutants and would've strengthened Magneto's desire to defend them.
I actually always thought that killing off Cyclops and the Professor so early was the movie's huge advantage. Even as a teen I was at that time, I was incredibly tired of a cliche "the main character dying in the end of the movie or being saved in the last moment' Scott dying in the very beginning not only was shocking and refreshing for the superhero genre, it also raised the stakes and let the audience know that anybody can die in this story. And the professor's death, IMO was a masterpiece. The acting, the VFX, the music in that scene - everything sold it perfectly. The best scene in the movie.
I assumed that Charles was using his powers to make everyone see him as his old self in the chair, which made no logical sense how he could continue to have any powers in another body.
Even as young as I was when this came out, it still felt disappointing to me. I've yet to actually want to rewatch this one. One of my issues involves the inclusion of power rating. It just seemed like they needed it to force some kind of believability in the threat level. Then there's how several of the characters didn't get enough time to feel like characters we care about, mainly Kitty Pride, Angel, Beast, Colossus, and all the mutants that joined Magneto who were no more than the depth of their mutant abilities (Juggernaut meme line was so stupid). But it did have possibly one of the best dialogue moments in the franchise, where Magneto swears a needle will never touch his skin again. Such an incredible moment.
I enjoyed it. Jean/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix is my favorite character from the comics, and I wanted to see justice done to her. The comics had so much good lore to go on, and they chose strangely in X-3. At the end of X-2 we saw fire manifest in Jean's eyes, and then in X-3 there was no fire. I did like seeing Jean's telekinesis rip things apart to their molecular level. The other characters were fine, and I enjoyed seeing most of them on screen. There were too many characters, though, and they didn't get a lot of development. Beast was great. Angel was meh. I liked the Kitty Pryde (she/her) and Juggernaut battle. MAGNETO MOVING THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE! Killing off Xavier was a poor choice, but the scene was fantastic. I dislike Cyclops in general, so I had no feelings about that. Rogue's story was poorly done. (Maybe we can get Anna Paquin to reprise her role and stick it to that horrid Captain Marvel -- I'd pay to see that.) It's probably my favorite film of the three because of Phoenix. It's also miles ahead of any of the more recent garbage, so it wins. Cheers, Dave!
I enjoyed it at the time. But I do remember making a mental note about Cyclops' demise being very underwhelming, considering he was basically the captain of the team.
There’s a lot to love, I enjoyed it in the theater but it fell apart on later viewing, still better than current content. It’s biggest crime is not simply adapting the source material. It’s already storyboarded for you!
Nice review! For me though The x-men deaths were bad, angel wasn’t fleshed out at all, even Jean Grey seemed to have zero humanity left. I thought magneto was completely out of character abandoning mystique so flippantly.. I could see someone not invested in these movies just enjoying the action but after X2 (still the best superhero movie imo) the X3 character and story fumbles were too much to take. Crazy how inconsistent these movies were!
I remember enjoying it on release and whenever I rewatch it I find myself more so focusing on the character's interactions to things like the cure, what it means to be a mutant at this point in their world, and of course how Wolverine has evolved over the course of the trilogy. There are still plenty of bumps, but without comparing to later films, I still felt it wasn't as horrible as people made it out to be.
It's hinted in the comics that Scott Summers is sorta of an anchor to those with telepathic abilities, so I guess for Jean to go overboard it would need the removal of Cyclops as that stable force in her life.
Here’s what I think X-men 3 should’ve had: -Scott’s recovery from Jean’s death to a fearless X-men leader (not kill him). -Not kill Charles. -Make Storm join Magneto, because she reached her peak of her hatred of humans; and have her ask Charles for forgiveness in the end. -Not have a love triangle with Rogue, Bobby, and Kitty. -Keep Jean Grey dead (until a next trilogy). & -Just make the film about the War of the Cure (though I’m not sure about that mutant kid that makes mutants pure human). Those are my thoughts about how X-men 3 should’ve been like. What do you think?
The Last Stand was excellent. I'll die on this hill. It was a conclusion, it wrapped up the stories of the first two films, it was bold and written without regard to continuing the series. It is a failure of us, the comic/movie viewer that we cling to our status quo, we reject the toppling of the pillars of our fictional worlds, but that's what makes The Last Stand feel like an X-Men film to me. Thunderbird Died. To me the X-Men was a world where anything could happen, death was real, and the stakes were high. The WORST thing about modern X-Men in comics and films, is that everything comes back to the status quo. No living human being can count the number of times they rebuilt the X-Mansion. No one dies for more than a year. I love that Bret Ratner chose the chopping block for Scott and Professor X. That wasn't my Scott anyway, at least his death meant something, when his character hadn't for two films. It's good to feel the loss, that's the film making you feel _something._ How many recent films make you feel anything at all? Your outrage is the justification for the choices made.
A lot of people diss the cure storyline, but I think it's the Dark Phoenix plot that could be cut, and it would improve the movie. It should have been just the cure, an epic final battle against Magneto, and that's it. And that way, you don't need Cyclops, have him leave because of what happened to Jean, wait for Superman Returns to bomb, and then do Phoenix with everyone in X4.
The main problem (and why it is the worst of the X-Men films, including New Mutants) is that it can't decide on which story to focus on, or which is more important. You have three plots that were major storylines in the comics, The Dark Phoenix saga, The Mutant cure (Dove Tailing from the Mutant Registration act that was delved into in previous movies) and the Morlock's Rising. Now, the Morlocks was mainly used to fill in characters from the storyline in Magneto's army, but was touched on and never given full credence, the Mutant Cure being wedged in for the backdrop of the gathering. The Dark Phoenix powers was overly broad and over the top (In both movies, btw) and condensed from the epic saga that was the cross over in the comics line. Part of this was licensing, as other Marvel characters became a part of this that were not mutants. Overall, this mess was the backdrop to some set pieces slammed together that were nice to see, but had no real connection to the overall plots that one had to trugde through to get to it. The best part of the film was the characters being able to do their lines, and Beast finally getting onscreen for more than a second. There was also the disappointment that the OG X-Men never had a single scene together as the team. (Angel, specifically, was only in the film to cry) It was really that bad. The answer to the question is "Yes."
I always like that movie. If anything, I thought it didn’t do justice to the comic book version of Phoenix death that said even then I realize budgets are not unlimited, etc.. I even washed it recently with my kids a few weeks ago. In fact, I think it’s better than X1 and X2. lastly, Cyclops went out like a punk. That’s probably what I least liked about it.
Besides the casting of the Juggernaut (Sorry Vinnie...it's not your fault) I think it's a pretty fun superhero film. Granted I've never read the original "Dark Phoenix" comic storyline so for me it was just: "Yay! Another X-Men film!"
Like most things from the past that were generally received with mixed or negative reviews, its a masterpiece in comparison to what comes out today. I could probably list a hundred movies from the 90s and 00s that would fall into that category.
Yeah sorry Mr. Cullen have to disagree sir. Both attempts to bring the 'Phoenix Dark Saga' to live action movies were very badly done. They had some brilliant source material from the comics and they failed to do it justice. Not the first time that has happened with a comic or a book, and sadly not the last.
This is one of the better X-Men movies. It has several classic scenes. As a fan since the 90s, all I want is mutants using their abilities, and this film delivers.
I wish they'd have ACTUALLY done the Dark Phoenix story. Introduced the Shi'ar, and the Imperial Guard and have the battle royale in the "Blue Area" at the Moon's south pole.
I met writer X2/X3 writer Zak Penn at a thing a couple of years ago (doesn't matter how) and had a brief convo with him about comic book movies. From what he told me about the production of X3 The Last Stand, it sounds like it was riddled with studio interference and a bunch of on-set change requests. If any of that was accurate, then it's a gorram miracle that we got the version of the movie that was released even with Brett Ratner at the helm.
I remember really enjoying this movie when it came out. I wasn’t familiar with the X-men beyond the previous movies, which I loved, and so the things that bothered longtime X-Men fans didn’t bother me. I rewatched it recently and found that I still enjoyed it. It feels like a time capsule, a completely different era of Hollywood and filmmaking. I will say, the climactic ending with the island, everything levitating, Wolverine going up to Jean Grey, his clothes ripping off his sweaty body, their final lines, his mournful cry after stabbing her; all of it feels SO over the top Hollywood, almost like you could imagine that being a parody version of Hollywood in a Tropic Thunder -like movie. On that level, it made me laugh, but it also made me miss that era of movie making. Did they make some dumb decisions with the lore? Sure. But it was a lot of fun, and since this was supposed to be the end of a trilogy, as opposed to a middle part of a longer franchise, it made sense that they’d kill off characters, and it only seemed premature in retrospect.
Also, since we SO were not accustomed to post-credits scenes then, I didn’t realize there was a post-credits scene with Charles for over a decade, so when he showed up at the end of the Wolverine, I was EXTREMELY confused. lol.
There is a viking era x-men fan film called Logan the Wolf... probably the best fan film around at the moment. The fight scenes are brutal... Would love to hear your take on it.
The movie gave us Kelsey Grammer as Hank "Beast" McCoy. That alone makes it good. Even if everything else would suck (but it doesn't) it would still be enjoyable over the scenes where Beast is present.
I like the theme of evolution, how Jean evolved into the phoenix (I know that in the comics it’s different) and how the cure will reverse the person from mutant to non mutant, there’s something there but everything in this film is undercooked
I actually liked Last Stand. My biggest issues as you noted were the deaths of Cyclops and Professor X. Cyclops has been mis-managed on screen the whole time though in the films, so it was kind of a last dig. Outside of those deaths, it was a good X-Men film, certainly in my view better than most of what has come sense for the X-Men on screen.
Kelsey Grammar was a great choice to play beast.
His casting was the high point of the movie for me. He was spot on
☝100% this.
Facts 💯
Definitely demonstrably a wrong POV concerning Kelsey Grammar as the Beast.
First, as a graduate of the inaugurate class of Prof Xavier's School of Gifted Students, Hank McCoy wholeheartedly embraced his Homo Superior-ness and was a vocal advocate for Mutant acceptance as a member of the Avengers in the 1970's. As told by Roger Stern, Hank McCoy mutated HIMSELF into the Furry Beast as his original mutations presented mostly as a passable Homo Sapiens. His intent in doing so was to demonstrate publicly his solidarity with those mutants who couldn't pass for Homo Sapiens like Warren Worthington or the Summers brothers. Then someone on this movie production twisted Hank MCCoy's character to one that psychologically suffers under his physical mutations despite the fact he holds a public position high in the USA presidential administration. That's like twisting MLK's "I have a dream" into "Once all blacks bleach their skin, straighten their hair and style themselves as Nordic socialists, American society can be at peace with it self." (See the Shogun of Harlem for the correct response to that scenario)
After that brain fuck, the script given Kelsey Grammer was devoid of four to five syllable words that would force the 8 to 12 year old audience members running for their dictionaries OR oblique references to classical literary writers, composers or scientists. Go pick up any issue featuring the Beast penned by Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Denny O'Neill, Roger Stern or Chris Claremont if you don't know what I mean.
Lastly, because I can go on for another hour on this topic, "Oh My Stars and Garters" was not YELLED at a critical juncture in the action alerting all the heroes of the gravity of the situation. It sucked as bad as Chris Evans' "Avengers Assemble" in End Game or (Oh Stan, forgive them for what they did) Namor's "Imperious Rex" in Wakanda Forever. Catch phrases are NOT to be MUMBLED, just look at any word bubble pre 1990 containing the words "Oh My Stars and Garters". Ask yourself, who would Bart Simpson be if he only ever whispered "Kowabunga" or his father groaned "Doh" under his breath.
Yes, these points have nothing to do with Kelsey Grammer. However, he is only an actor and his lack of familiarity with the source material meant he had no reason to push back on the pile of unmentionables he was given. That's why he was a terrible casting choice.
NUFF SAID
@@kubla5hundred that's nice. And to the majority of fans who had their start because of the cartoon he was about as accurate as we'd get.
It wasn't terrible, which by today's standards is a glowing recommendation.
The Juggernaut meme is still brilliant.
lol! True enough
We were spoilt back then.
Terrible is 1/10; that's not accurate.
I'll give you that one, that compared to the absolute horse shit marvel is flinging at us today, "Last Stand" was a masterpiece. However, at the time I absolutely hated it!!
Wait until the MCU massacres the X-Men.
You mean you don't think that Disney and the MCU has learned it's lesson with DeadPool and Wolverine, and that both the Fantastic Four and X-Men reboots will be brilliant and well done? I am shocked! I tell you sir, shocked! 🤣NOT.
I read Hugh Jackman will still be playing Wolverine.
@@anubusx isnt bro dead 😂
Lol I won’t be watching but I will watch the reviews 😂
@@anubusx Until he's 90!
If made by today's modern message, Jean grey would not only be forgiven for killing Charles, but celebrated. "live your truth, Jean. You're amazing."
"Mutant and proud" 🙄
Yassss Queen!
@@dogwklr lol and for once, she actually would be slaying...
@@lEricklThe Little Mermaid and Mary Jane Watson
Cyclone in Black Adam, as well as The Flash’s girlfriend
We didn’t realize how good we had it back then. I’d take another Last Stand over anything the MCU has put out the last 5 years in a heartbeat.
I know I thought this movie was shit when it came out but after what we got for about the last 8 years, I went back and watched this and a few other movies I thought sucked back then and thought "maybe I judged these a bit unfairly."
Agreed, I've always enjoyed this movie personally. I have come to appreciate it even more because it feels so different than the MCU. Feels much more mature.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp back then, yeah I shit on it a lot but still liked the action scenes and whatnot but the movie itself is still pretty enjoyable I have to say, I've only come to like it more and I think the movies like Days of Future Past and Apocalypse almost made it age better as part of that continuity too, I don't know, that's just an opinion.
@@GlenLentz Yeah, I agree with that as well.
* 10 years.
Compared to Madame Webb, Morbius, The Marvels it is the Citizen Kane of comic book movies.
It was perceived as bad compared to X1 and 2, but out of all the Fox Xmen movies its somewhere in the middle, not the best not the worst.
I liked First Class better than all three of em'.
X2 is overrated.
And I was just waiting for Stryker to start telling everyone to FUCK OFF!
@@Fiveash-Artfirst class is meh
@@eskanda3434 Says you. I liked it. I don't care for Bryan Singer's stuff .. He's got some great sequences, but overall I think his movies are a bit dull. First Class was good fun .. All that 'Children of the Atom' stuff set in the Cold War era .. that and they did a great job with the classic X-Men Blue and Yellow flight suits. Magneto was badass and I loved his theme music. .. Besides that Michael Ironside makes an appearance ... Any movie with that dude in it scores a point for me. 😁
Last Stand was the worst X-Men film up until the Apocalypse and Phoenix films with Jennifer Lawrence.
New Mutants was terrible.
Did you mean Sophie Turner as Phoenix? Jennifer Lawrence was mystique and pretty good IMO
X-Men Origins: Wolverine would like a word.
@@Angrist17 Nah. It had it's problems but it was still a nice popcorn flick.
What you have against Jennifer Lawrence?
Brett Ratner can be a competent Director from time to time, but nothing about Red Dragon or Rush Hour 1 & 2 would've made one say: "Oh - he'd be PERFECT for an X-Men movie!!"
In a sense, he was the warning that the Producers of The Eternals should've paid attention to.
Red Dragon was a huge disappointment also. Much preferred Michael Mann’s 80’s version “Manhunter”? That ending shootout with the police to Iron Butterfly, is a thing of beauty .
I hated that:
- They killed Jean Gray, Charles Xavier
- They made Magneto, Mystique impotent
- They made Scott a loser
- They didn't kill Rogue
That said, the movie was a lot better than the trash they've been releasing since 2021.
If you are talking about having their powers taken away, they come back before the end credits. However, considering Magneto moved an entire bridge, I think he still fought well and it showed the humans actually adapting with using plastic guns/bullets.
Why should they have killed Rogue?
Fr FOX X Men really massacre Cyclops by portraying him as just a "jealous boyfriend" while in most version of comics he's totally far more than that.
My BIGGEST problem is Magneto shrugging of Xavier's death, and using fellow mutants as pawns.
The screenwriter CLEARLY doesn't understand Magneto.
He never shrugged it off, what are you on about?
Magneto's words in that movie after Xavier's death to the mutant who disrespected him "That man did more for mutants than you ever will". He respected Charles and mourned in his own way.
I don't think you've seen the film in a while. He didn't "shrug off" Xavier's death.
My frustration is that the X-Men franchise loses all sense of continuity after Last Stand. In Days of Future Past, there’s suddenly a robotic apocalypse and Professor X is alive again. It was as if there was a missing film that was never made. At the end of Future Past, it’s also unclear how much of the original trilogy actually happened after the time travel. In Logan, we yet again get a hush time jump. Everyone was fine at the end of Future Past, but now there’s an apocalypse again? The continuity just doesn’t add up. At least the first three films felt like a complete story.
The post credits scene of Last Stand implies Charles came back, but yeah they really screw it up.
The post credits scene of Last Stand has Charles waking up and saying "Moira". Moira than says "Charles", again, implying Charles had a backup plan. I guess the idea is he had a braindead twin brother and when Jean killed him, he shifted his consciousness into his twin brother. It was set up at the end of Last Stand, but Last Stand not being well liked kinda ruined it.
What is also annoying though is when we get to events set decades prior... we see a significantly younger Moira. Which basically shows they abandoned their original plan for Moira after Last Stand.
They're all more fun if you ignore the timeline.
The continuity is messy. Works well enough that you can ignore some things, but should've been tighter. Also, Professor X was revealed to move his conciseness to a comatose twin of Charles that they introduced earlier. And The Wolverine movie is what teases Days of Future Past with its mid credit scene. Teases Trask Industries and sees the return of Professor X and Magneto together. Talking about an upcoming conflict that's coming. That leads us to Days of Future Past.
I don't even really think of them as connected.
the x-men movies feel like cinema movies, as in "hey here's a movie about this x-men event"
John Powell's score is absolutely amazing, and as a composer myself I am influenced by it to this day. His score for the scene where professor Xavier meets his end, the desperation of Wolverine clawing his way slowly across the ceiling trying to reach him, has an unmatched balance of intense action and emotional weight. Powell reuses these ideas during the final battle as well, with Logan trying to reach Jean herself, this time with a touch of epic choirs. One of my all-time favorite film scores. 👍🏻
This movie’s not great, but it looks like a masterpiece compared to Origins: Wolverine.
Wolverine Origins was better and Liv Schreiber makes up for its failings.
🤣👍
Overhated
@@anthonylogiudice9215 It doesn't, at least if you have to watch the rest of the movie besides the Sabertooth parts it doesn't. When the B plot is stronger than the A plot then you movie has issues.
@@ninjanibba4259agreed
Funny enough, the co-writer of this film wrote and directed the last X-Men film Dark Phoenix, much of which is an almost beat-for-beat remake of this film, as his redemption for helping to make The Last Stand, and made Dark Phoenix even worse.
Hollywood seems forget to make the woodpile before creating a bonfire. If they never give the audience a reason to connect with Jean grey as a character, her becoming the phoenix and going wild doesn't carry much weight with the audience. They are so set on the destruction of things, they aren't willing do the proper build up. The original phoenix/dark phoenix was a big deal because Grey was the nicest girl, and was always thought of as the weakest member of the Xmen. The films barely touch on her as a character, and jump right to her going phoenix and lack any of the other aspects of why she had make sacrifices as it such as to protect the universe above her own desires. To put a human host full of emotion at the helm of godly power, and not have it corrupt or overwhelm it. (later they retconned it to where Jean wasn't the phoenix in the comics, but then they made her become the phoenix again anyways.)
It's not as bad as X-Men Apocalypse. 😒
Word
Or new mutants.
@@mkno2799 or Dark Phoenix
It still blows my mind that they cast a sissy boy with a falsetto voice as one of the most epic MCU villains of all time??? He was not imposing or scary, just some Ivan Ooze larper aimlessly walking the earth.
And Dark Phoenix
This movie should have given us a fight between Colossus and Juggernaut. That would have been better than Kitty vs Juggernaut.
XMen 97 was the only iteration of XMen that did Cyclops justice. Cyclops was always my favorite XMen character.
Yes, what they did to Cyclops was rubbish, they made him wet and a SIMP.
Cyclops was always my favourite too, from the cartoons but I don't know why.
What about X-Men Evolution? I think it is _still_ the very best depiction of Scott and Jean as individual, well-realised characters individually, as well as the best depiction of their romance as a believable and genuine one, that we see build from starting as friends.
Even compared to ‘97, I’d say the depiction of Scott is still superior, and ‘97’s was excellent in itself.
@arc7375 I still liked Evolution, just X-Men 97 was what I was waiting for for decades. Almost perfect X-Men.
@@geekhomeworld4248 97 was, all in all, absolutely phenomenal!
100% yes. I read all the comic's, this is a horrible nightmare compared to the comic's.
They absolutely butchered the Phoenix saga and Days of futures past.
in the comics did they bring back xavier with some aliens cloning him? Or did I remember wrong?
comics
@@TentaclePentacle it's western comics. No one ever really stays dead.
Great movie, with glaring problems:
1. The killing of Scott and Xavier (fans didn't want that)
2. The Phoenix story being done differently (fans had another expectation)
3. Magneto chose to make his home base in the woods where there is no metal (lol, what?)
4. The underutilization of Kelsey Grammar as Beast (fans wanted more).
5. The Phoenix doesn't do much except stand there to be Wolverine's life interest (weak writing for the most badass female character in the X-Men franchise)
Take away the first problem, and we could have let the other stuff slide.
But in combination, it was just a bit too much.
There's too many things happening, as the whole cure was a big enough story beat on it's own. Jean never got build up enough as a character for the audience to really care about her being unleashed. She wasn't really a chaarcter, but a plot device who stood around for the majority of the movie. The dark phoenix/phoenix thing was wasted as a subplot to this movie.(it's sad they bothered fumbled thru this storyline idea twice.) You could put any generic but powerful henchman in her place and the movie would been largely the same.
I loved 1. It was shocking and refreshing. I can't recall that many superhero movies where one of main characters is killed in the very beginning. It helped raise the stakes and let the audience know that any character can die at any point. And sure enough - 2 more of the main characters die later.
@@TabalugaDragon That's what people who say who don't give a crap about characters. Oh yay they let people die...that's the Zack Snyder School of thought. There's bigger stakes than death in stories. Making people live with their screw ups is and betrayals is far more impactful. Death should be used sparingly, and mean something when it happens. Cyclops got killed in such a spiteful manner it was clear the execs want to get back at the actor for working on another film, and it had nothing do with making the narrative stronger for it. The movie couldn't manage the character count it had effectively, and the last battle only had a few Xmen characters helping nameless humans defend the prison.
I witnessed a crap ton of characters die in the 1986 transformers movie ...I ABSOLUTELY HATED IT. It wasn't refreshing or shocking, it was just cheap deaths they figured the audience would just root for the replacement squad...they were wrong. It greatlty angered fans. The fact this lesson doesn't stick with people shows how little people pay attention. When characters are treated as speedbumps for the plot, just shows the writers don't care, and neither should the audience. There's genres where high body counts make sense, like Horror movies, but in a series of films where you are investing the audience in the story of characters, killing people willy nilly just is a huge turn off. If you need kill people, introduce some red shirts to take one of the team.
@@Lastjustice stop talking to me like to a kid who has barely seen cinema in his life. I've seen a ton. Yes, Scott's death was refreshing as this thing is pretty much never done. I never watched that Transformers movie but I heard that they killed the old characters because they wanted new toys.
Scott in X-men was killed on the other hand
1. Because like you said, scheduling issues, they pretty much had no choice.
2. To show what monster Jean has become. There is no better way to do this than to her killed the man she loved most.
3. To show that that was(at that point) the last movie in the franchise and demonstrate perfectly that none of the main characters are safe.
My reaction when I saw this was overwhelmingly positive. And it's one thing when they kill off the most interesting character of the franchise, it's another when he never really did that much in the previous 2 movies like in this case.
And Charles's death was a masterpiece. The acting, the VFX, the music. I must have watched that scene like 20 times. And you won't convince me otherwise.
@@TabalugaDragon You clearly don't grasp cinemia or story telling on a level remotely as well as you think. If you watched as movies as you claim, why you have such a pisspoor understanding of them? Charles death which you call a masterpiece proves exactly why your take is poor. They UNDID IT in the same exact movie. (Mic drop) I could probably stop there as this alone ravages your entire block of nonsense. If X3 wasn't willing let a death stand then they probably should have never done it in the first place. Who cares if anyone can did if they come right back? There's no stakes in that either.
Cyclops could simply been injured and sidelined, as him being alive to handle Jean would been far more impactful. This is the love of this life, and having kill her for the greater good adds far more weight than Wolverine doing it (These movies only care about Wolverine, and did Scott dirty.). Again you only thinking there was no other answer to this proves you have lack imagination. They killed him out of spite, as the film doesn't even act like the audience should feel bad Scott is dead as it takes no real time confirm for sure he is dead even. Jean kills him for reasons.... Killing them both removes Cable as a future character(He's their kid.), so I assumed they'd want to use him at some point, and would retcon this from the moment it happened. It was never going stand.
When you kill a crap ton of characters pointlessly, they get undone because people will still want to use X character or they are just too important for the franchise to drop them. (This exactly what happened with Optimus Prime, the show suffered greatly post movie till fans demanded he got brought back.) If Death is done sparingly, then you don't have to undo it and can let whatever deaths that do happen stand. They can have impact and be something major to the story rather than shock value cheap deaths which devalue death and the characters.
Xmen was in shambles after X 3 and they didn't erase because it was a masterpeice. Again they undid the entire film from existence it was that bad. They went to First Class purely as a reaction to X3, but decided to let the show go on despite how badly it was. People don't make good movies noncanon to series. So your garbage hottake failed hard. They undid everything you liked...so you couldn't be more wrong. This just isn't my opinion here..this actual facts of why you fail here.
What they did with the Juggernaut in this film was criminal.
And never had him fight Collossus.
They clearly didn’t know who he was
It's flaws come from the same problems as spider man 3. Too many different comic plot lines and characters cramed into two hours.
Agreed. The whole phoenix needed to be it's own focus as the whole cure story beat was enough to tackle on it's own.
Spider-man 3 is better though
The movie was so bad, the studio had to start a new continuity and series of prequel films to utterly recon Last Stand out of existence.
It literally took them the best part of a _decade_ to undo the damage caused by Last Stand…and then after fixing it, go onto make the same mistakes again.
No, however it was pretty mediocre.
The X-Men films seemed to lack a coherent plan of direction, with some being great and others being squibs.
It's a complicated answer when it comes to the Last Stand.
- I think The Last Stand was made better with The Wolverine (2013) and Days of the Future Past, which utilized the aftermath of The Last Stand's story.
- It's one of those cases where future movies (at least until Dark Phoenix) actually redeemed The Last Stand.
- However, I agree that Xavier's return was never handled right. All they needed was a few extra lines of dialogue explaining how Xavier came back to life, but they never really explained it. Heck, they could have made an argument that this Xavier is from another universe where his original X-Men were completely wiped out. Anything would have worked instead of saying nothing to the audience.
I enjoyed it even with them treating Phoenix dirty. Dark Phoenix is one of my favorite villains in Marvel and would love to see her properly represented in a movie.
They're are a lot of cool parts like the opening sequence with Angel, Kelsey is great as Beast, Magneto ripping of the bridge, and the final battle with X-Men vs an army of Brotherhood of Mutants. What I hated about Last Stand is Magento don't share of care when Xavier died, too much storyline cramp into one, the portrayed of Juggernaut who has no connection to Xavier and doesn't look right, where the hell is Nightcrawler, Angel was completely wasted and only shows up at the end of the film to save his dad. Overall, it's not great, but it's way better than X-Men: Dark Phoenix.
My only gripe was they called it a war, it was more like a gang fight.
I’d say more of a skirmish.
Considering the state of superhero movies today, I honestly think X-Men: The Last Stand, by comparison, holds up well.
As I understood it, the actor who plays Cyclops wasn’t available to do the whole movie. Killing off his character was the solution. The alternative would have been to find a new actor to play Cyclops.
Or just injure Cyclops to where he was sidelined for a bit. Killing him was the spite play from execs. Him being around for Jean to die or having to play a role in her death would made it a bigger deal.
Or just not film it when he is doing another movie OR they should have locked their cast into contracts.
and Marsden I can understand would rather play the "other guy" to Clark Kent/Supes for Lois Lane (lame choice) but considering how they did Scott Summers/Cyclops dirty in these movies I can see why he'd look for other roles.
Overall, Marsden should fire his agent.
@@86BarbOmega Which the odd part is Bryan Singer choose to under use Scott, but opted to bring James Marsden along for the role in Superman returns. Given how wildly boring and creepy Superman Returns is(Deadbeat dad/stalker superman), I'd rather Bryan Singer just stuck with making Xmen 3(I doubt whatever he made would been worst than Last Stand,), and let someone else make a Superman movie.
I think James Marsden was great casting for Cyclops, as he owns the boyscout roles in movies. He just never got the chance to do as these movies were just so damn stuck on Wolverine. I like Logan, but he was overplayed too much.
I think I would have liked a recast instead of what we got.
I enjoyed Last Stand actually.
Your opinion is fine and has value but we are talking about a movie where some random nobody character gets the drop on Wolverine IN A WOODED SETTING. If you don't know what's wrong with that, pick up a classical X-Men reprint PLEASE.
@@kubla5hundreddon't sweat the petty things and while you are at it, Don't pet the sweaty things
I didn’t like Last Stand. But I enjoyed Dark Phoenix.
I guess we’re in a minority! 🤣
I did a rewatch of everything leading up to DP3, and definitely appreciated Last Stand's attempt, far more than DP3's abandonment, of anything resembling a coherent 'story'. Good review, agreed with everything you said.
It’s amusing how the overflowing outhouse we call modern cinema has caused the trash of the past to seem competent, even entertaining.
Had they given Scott more to do and have him face off with Jean instead of Logan at the end, I would have liked it.
Should have locked James Marsden into contract.
I hated the movie for killing off a favorite character (cyclops) from the get go and turning an otherwise likable lady hero into a villain (Phoenix). Oh, and they killed Xavier. Will never watch the movie again for these reasons.
Cyclops actually leaves the X-Men for a brief while in the comics too after Jean died so I can tell they were kind of borrowing from that storyline, that's around the time they brought in Kitty Pryde too. They could've had it where cyclops left for a while in the movie and then came back after collecting hisself and then helping in the end but then you probably wouldn't have had the scene of Logan stopping Jean at the end of the movie and maybe they thought it wouldn't conclude Logan's and Jean's love arc in the movie? I don't know.
No no you were onto something there, they should have had Cyclops and Logan work together to stop Jean. One is the distraction while the other sneaks up on her.
James Marsden was not fully available, but they could have him leave in the beginning of the film and have him come back at then end, so his scenes were minimal. Ya know? work around it.
Movies arent shot in order, so it was possible to do pick up shots and use Marsden when his schedule allowed it, but nope, it is easy from X1 and X2 that the writers or execs arent fans of the Cyclops character, they wanted to spotlight and focus on Wolverine, which I get it, he is cool but not at the expense of other characters, that is weak and wack.
I have always appreciated this movie for what it did and what it tried to do. I agree completely with your assessment of it. I still find a lot to enjoy about it and the last third of the film is definitely the best part of it.
Should also be noted that David Hayter was not involved in writing this one. That said, Kelsey Grammar was a fantastic choice for Beast and the practical makeup on him looks amazing.
I appreciated how much mutant vs mutant action this had compared to the other films.
Almost as good as girl on girl action
When you actually realize that you no longer give a flying f*ck. The restful sleep is beyond incredible.
It clearly had its issues, but it wasn't unwatchable.
And it's interesting that Kitty Pryde was played by a bloke.
thank you for your input, Dave. this makes me a bit interested in rewatching movies like this one.
Compared to what has come out over the past several years, The Last Stand is Shakespeare.
Naah it's still not good. Just because horse manure tastes bad doesn't make dog crap suddenly delicious.
I disagree. Sure there were plenty of bad superhero movies in the past few years, some of which were even worse than The Last Stand, but I can also give you examples of films that were way better (Gotg vol. 2, Across the spider-verse, Shang chi). We also got a pretty good animated X-men show this year. So, it's not Shakespeare by today's standards it still sucks.
@mateuszmorda91 😆 🤣 😂 all of your examples are dogshit
I know it's far from the comics but I liked the Dark Phoenix take. They actually took time to lay the ground work in the previous movies. That scene in Jean's house is a stand out moment. The SFX, music, the performances and then what happened to Jean when she went Dark Phoenix was wonderfully creepy.
Jean wasn't invested in enough as character. She was barely established as anything personality wise, and the whole phoenix and dark phoenix thing is wasted as a concept. For her fall down you need the audience to care enough about her original character in the first place. You really don't, so it falls flat.
I remember when it came out, and I was told I was supposed to hate it. I was never sure why.
Sure Cyclops was mistreated, but that was true of the entire series. The Phoenix story was disappointing, but they still have yet to get that right.
I don't know, I thought it was fine.
the comment about X2 at 7:00 had me chuckling. I havent watched these movies in YEARS, probably 15 or so... but I remember the first and third vividly... but I have NO memory about the second one.
Vinnie Jones as Juggernaught alone is reason to love this film!
I love the bit where magneto shuts down one of his followers bad mouthing Xavier.
"Charles Xavier has done more for mutants than you can every know"
Pyro.
He is a hothead.
The X Men movies are massive lumps of shiit. Spider Man looks like Spider Man, but the X Men get these weird leather suits. The story lines are nothing like the story lines in the comics etc etc.
I have seen last stand like 6 times, but x2, I feel like once is enough.
A few faults aside, it (LS) had it's seriously epic moments.
Nobody ever talks about Magneto giving an epic speech, he just DOES it! And you go on with your lives, ignoring the signs all around you. It is only by that time you realize the speech has already begun.
Definitely another film with, I think, unwarranted hate towards it.
It was ok. The scene where Wolverine had to kill Jean is pretty cool.
You're right about Cyclops being underutilized. In most team up instances, the leader gets way more screen time. X-Men is different because Wolverine is far more popular and versatile, onscreen anyway.
Wolverine is better when he gets play off Cyclops. The two balance each other out as Wolverine is too headstrong, while Cyclops has a stick up his ass. No one ever pushes back on Wolverine in the movies really, and it takes away his character's role of being the shit stirrer of the team.
@Lastjustice What is he rebelling against, aside from their superhero name?
@@imakethesites3048 Logan is angry about so many things, as he can't remember most of his life, and doesn't like being told what to do. He's a bit of a loner, but he needs people as much as he grumbles, he knows deep down the Xmen are good for him. He hates himself because he has killed so many people, and sees himself as a potential threat to the Xmen at times.
He has alot going on, and the films gloss over this in the first 3 films. You see him struggle with his identity alot more in the following films like Wolverine. Cyclops is there to keep the plot going even when Logan craps the bed. Logan can't be the lose canon and the guy who drives the plot at the same time. That's why you can have these two play off each other.
A love triangle only works if you have a reason to see both potential suiters win, but the movies dump on cyclops like he's lame every chance they get. (he's a wussy who listens to backstreet boys when they take his car.)The first film was the only time we really see them try make these two work things out between them. After that Cyclops keeps getting sidelined then killed.
@@imakethesites3048 he's antisocial and a loner type, it kinda establishes that when we first meet him, when Rogue hitch hikes into his truck. He was gonna dump her on the road but because he is not a total pos, he gives her a lift.
He doesnt like taking orders, he doesnt like following them, he doesnt like authority and does his own thing. A lone wolf type. Not a team player, his character arc was he worked with the others for their cause and to save Rogue (and the humans). The first film fleshes that out. Doesnt really flesh out the other Xmen team members much though.
I still say its bad. It is a lame and cop-out version of Dark Phoenix. The effects have bad and obvious wire-work shots. Its mostly a hodge podge of mutant and ability cameos on a thin story.
X-Men 3 screwed up by having both a Dark Phoenix story and the cure story in the same movie. For one, those two stories are completely unrelated. And two, you can't have Dark Phoenix without first having Phoenix (a mistake they erroneously double down on in the later film).
Fair points were made! For me I think the story arcs of the mutant “cure” and The Phoenix had too much material to cram into one film as they have lengthy story arcs of their own. That’s just me. “X2” as their “Wrath of Khan” was an interesting take 😂
It’s….a weird one. It exists to adapt the Dark Phoenix arc. Dare I say this has the best iconic quote that rings Juggernaut. It was thankfully retconned by Days of Future’s past as you said. Though I remembered the janky mid-2000’s Marvel Legends from Hasbro were so…..ehhh…
I was never an x-men fan. When I was younger I did read a few of the comics. But the movies were so different that I just watched them as movies with no connection. Similar to the fantastic 4 for me. Thank you Dave for the video.
It had one of my favorite Magneto moments.
One of his henchmen said something (I forget what exactly) and Magneto immediately turns around and says something like, “Charles Xavier did more for mutants than you’ll ever know. My single greatest regret is that he had to die for our cause to live.”
Really quick moment but it helped show how hurt he was by it and how much he did love and care for his friends, as ideologically opposed as they were.
I liked it because it was most like the comic book to me. It had that John Byrne issues 132-137 feel to it. It even pulled some of the same dialogue from the comics as well. It lacked the dramatic depth and cinematic grandeur of the first two, and it certainly had issues here and there, but overall I really enjoyed it!
Very much in agreement on all of your points. I will add a couple of things. The world did feel a little cheaper, things looked like sets and props. The first two movies somehow felt more real. While should be allowed to compare them to modern movies, many would say it looks better because newer movies were cruddy. We also need to judge it against movies of the day. Not just in terms of special effects and production values but the goals and values of the filmmakers.
I've only ever seen the first two films. I did like the theme "Logan and Rogue" from the X-Men soundtrack that was used when Logan let her absorb his healing power to save her life. It cost him by forcing him to relive his past injuries. The music is suprisingly moving.
Magnito moving the entire bridge in order to transport like 20 mutants was ridiculous 😆
Well said Dave. I liked it, when I saw it in the cinema.... but that doesn't mean it was great, although it was a decent Xmen film. Stewart and McKellen put in strong performances. Your comments about Cyclops are spot on, Cyclops was a major Xmen character in the comics, but just a side character in the films. I thought Xavier's death scene was quite moving ( the score is great in the part).
As an adaptation of the epic "Dark Phoenix" story it was poor... but still a lot better than Simon Kinberg's Dark Phoenix film. Last Stand also introduced us to Ellen Page..... look where that went.
All in all I'd agree it is definitely undeserving of the dislike that it receives (especially in hindsight with the awful superhero movies of 2019-2024).
I think it could've been better if Mystique died from being hit with the cure.
If Mystique died, rather than simply losing her powers, then it would've shown that the cure is fatal to certain mutants and would've strengthened Magneto's desire to defend them.
I actually always thought that killing off Cyclops and the Professor so early was the movie's huge advantage. Even as a teen I was at that time, I was incredibly tired of a cliche "the main character dying in the end of the movie or being saved in the last moment' Scott dying in the very beginning not only was shocking and refreshing for the superhero genre, it also raised the stakes and let the audience know that anybody can die in this story.
And the professor's death, IMO was a masterpiece. The acting, the VFX, the music in that scene - everything sold it perfectly. The best scene in the movie.
I assumed that Charles was using his powers to make everyone see him as his old self in the chair, which made no logical sense how he could continue to have any powers in another body.
That just shows how bad the writing is: one line of dialogue could have established that and fixed the issue
It was a good middle of the road movie
I am 100% with you Brother!
They really should have had Charles walking when he shows up in Wolverine and in the Bad Future scenes of DOFP.
Even as young as I was when this came out, it still felt disappointing to me. I've yet to actually want to rewatch this one. One of my issues involves the inclusion of power rating. It just seemed like they needed it to force some kind of believability in the threat level. Then there's how several of the characters didn't get enough time to feel like characters we care about, mainly Kitty Pride, Angel, Beast, Colossus, and all the mutants that joined Magneto who were no more than the depth of their mutant abilities (Juggernaut meme line was so stupid). But it did have possibly one of the best dialogue moments in the franchise, where Magneto swears a needle will never touch his skin again. Such an incredible moment.
I enjoyed it. Jean/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix is my favorite character from the comics, and I wanted to see justice done to her. The comics had so much good lore to go on, and they chose strangely in X-3. At the end of X-2 we saw fire manifest in Jean's eyes, and then in X-3 there was no fire. I did like seeing Jean's telekinesis rip things apart to their molecular level. The other characters were fine, and I enjoyed seeing most of them on screen. There were too many characters, though, and they didn't get a lot of development. Beast was great. Angel was meh. I liked the Kitty Pryde (she/her) and Juggernaut battle. MAGNETO MOVING THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE! Killing off Xavier was a poor choice, but the scene was fantastic. I dislike Cyclops in general, so I had no feelings about that. Rogue's story was poorly done. (Maybe we can get Anna Paquin to reprise her role and stick it to that horrid Captain Marvel -- I'd pay to see that.) It's probably my favorite film of the three because of Phoenix. It's also miles ahead of any of the more recent garbage, so it wins.
Cheers, Dave!
Recently rewatched all the x-men and wolverine movies with my wife and we loved this one.
Need a good "Throw-back Friday" Film recommendation. This might be tempting enough
I enjoyed it at the time. But I do remember making a mental note about Cyclops' demise being very underwhelming, considering he was basically the captain of the team.
The only thing I remember about it was like the bridge scene and Logan skewering phoenix.
There’s a lot to love, I enjoyed it in the theater but it fell apart on later viewing, still better than current content. It’s biggest crime is not simply adapting the source material. It’s already storyboarded for you!
Nice review! For me though The x-men deaths were bad, angel wasn’t fleshed out at all, even Jean Grey seemed to have zero humanity left. I thought magneto was completely out of character abandoning mystique so flippantly.. I could see someone not invested in these movies just enjoying the action but after X2 (still the best superhero movie imo) the X3 character and story fumbles were too much to take. Crazy how inconsistent these movies were!
I remember enjoying it on release and whenever I rewatch it I find myself more so focusing on the character's interactions to things like the cure, what it means to be a mutant at this point in their world, and of course how Wolverine has evolved over the course of the trilogy. There are still plenty of bumps, but without comparing to later films, I still felt it wasn't as horrible as people made it out to be.
It's hinted in the comics that Scott Summers is sorta of an anchor to those with telepathic abilities, so I guess for Jean to go overboard it would need the removal of Cyclops as that stable force in her life.
Here’s what I think X-men 3 should’ve had:
-Scott’s recovery from Jean’s death to a fearless X-men leader (not kill him).
-Not kill Charles.
-Make Storm join Magneto, because she reached her peak of her hatred of humans; and have her ask Charles for forgiveness in the end.
-Not have a love triangle with Rogue, Bobby, and Kitty.
-Keep Jean Grey dead (until a next trilogy).
&
-Just make the film about the War of the Cure (though I’m not sure about that mutant kid that makes mutants pure human).
Those are my thoughts about how X-men 3 should’ve been like. What do you think?
The Last Stand was excellent. I'll die on this hill. It was a conclusion, it wrapped up the stories of the first two films, it was bold and written without regard to continuing the series. It is a failure of us, the comic/movie viewer that we cling to our status quo, we reject the toppling of the pillars of our fictional worlds, but that's what makes The Last Stand feel like an X-Men film to me.
Thunderbird Died.
To me the X-Men was a world where anything could happen, death was real, and the stakes were high. The WORST thing about modern X-Men in comics and films, is that everything comes back to the status quo. No living human being can count the number of times they rebuilt the X-Mansion. No one dies for more than a year. I love that Bret Ratner chose the chopping block for Scott and Professor X. That wasn't my Scott anyway, at least his death meant something, when his character hadn't for two films.
It's good to feel the loss, that's the film making you feel _something._ How many recent films make you feel anything at all? Your outrage is the justification for the choices made.
I just remember them teasing Phoenix in X-2 and being really excited about it for like 3 years, only to get what we got.
Last Stand isn't necessarily bad, it just didn't need the Phoenix plot.
100% needless addition to the story
A lot of people diss the cure storyline, but I think it's the Dark Phoenix plot that could be cut, and it would improve the movie. It should have been just the cure, an epic final battle against Magneto, and that's it. And that way, you don't need Cyclops, have him leave because of what happened to Jean, wait for Superman Returns to bomb, and then do Phoenix with everyone in X4.
The main problem (and why it is the worst of the X-Men films, including New Mutants) is that it can't decide on which story to focus on, or which is more important. You have three plots that were major storylines in the comics, The Dark Phoenix saga, The Mutant cure (Dove Tailing from the Mutant Registration act that was delved into in previous movies) and the Morlock's Rising.
Now, the Morlocks was mainly used to fill in characters from the storyline in Magneto's army, but was touched on and never given full credence, the Mutant Cure being wedged in for the backdrop of the gathering. The Dark Phoenix powers was overly broad and over the top (In both movies, btw) and condensed from the epic saga that was the cross over in the comics line. Part of this was licensing, as other Marvel characters became a part of this that were not mutants.
Overall, this mess was the backdrop to some set pieces slammed together that were nice to see, but had no real connection to the overall plots that one had to trugde through to get to it. The best part of the film was the characters being able to do their lines, and Beast finally getting onscreen for more than a second.
There was also the disappointment that the OG X-Men never had a single scene together as the team. (Angel, specifically, was only in the film to cry)
It was really that bad. The answer to the question is "Yes."
I always like that movie. If anything, I thought it didn’t do justice to the comic book version of Phoenix death that said even then I realize budgets are not unlimited, etc.. I even washed it recently with my kids a few weeks ago. In fact, I think it’s better than X1 and X2. lastly, Cyclops went out like a punk. That’s probably what I least liked about it.
Agreed. I’ve always enjoyed this film, but do feel it’s underdeveloped. Should have been a two part conclusion instead.
Besides the casting of the Juggernaut (Sorry Vinnie...it's not your fault) I think it's a pretty fun superhero film. Granted I've never read the original "Dark Phoenix" comic storyline so for me it was just: "Yay! Another X-Men film!"
Like most things from the past that were generally received with mixed or negative reviews, its a masterpiece in comparison to what comes out today. I could probably list a hundred movies from the 90s and 00s that would fall into that category.
Yeah sorry Mr. Cullen have to disagree sir. Both attempts to bring the 'Phoenix Dark Saga' to live action movies were very badly done. They had some brilliant source material from the comics and they failed to do it justice. Not the first time that has happened with a comic or a book, and sadly not the last.
one movie isnt enough for the phoenix saga. its literally a saga so unless they can spread it out over a trilogy dont bother again
@@eskanda3434 Agreed the first failure of both movies is that they tried to do the Phoenix storyline in one film!
This is one of the better X-Men movies. It has several classic scenes. As a fan since the 90s, all I want is mutants using their abilities, and this film delivers.
I wish they'd have ACTUALLY done the Dark Phoenix story. Introduced the Shi'ar, and the Imperial Guard and have the battle royale in the "Blue Area" at the Moon's south pole.
That would have required about 6 movies including 3 to establish the characters and why we should care what happens to Jean
@@docsavage8640 Yep, and it would have been great!
I met writer X2/X3 writer Zak Penn at a thing a couple of years ago (doesn't matter how) and had a brief convo with him about comic book movies. From what he told me about the production of X3 The Last Stand, it sounds like it was riddled with studio interference and a bunch of on-set change requests. If any of that was accurate, then it's a gorram miracle that we got the version of the movie that was released even with Brett Ratner at the helm.
I remember really enjoying this movie when it came out. I wasn’t familiar with the X-men beyond the previous movies, which I loved, and so the things that bothered longtime X-Men fans didn’t bother me. I rewatched it recently and found that I still enjoyed it. It feels like a time capsule, a completely different era of Hollywood and filmmaking. I will say, the climactic ending with the island, everything levitating, Wolverine going up to Jean Grey, his clothes ripping off his sweaty body, their final lines, his mournful cry after stabbing her; all of it feels SO over the top Hollywood, almost like you could imagine that being a parody version of Hollywood in a Tropic Thunder -like movie. On that level, it made me laugh, but it also made me miss that era of movie making. Did they make some dumb decisions with the lore? Sure. But it was a lot of fun, and since this was supposed to be the end of a trilogy, as opposed to a middle part of a longer franchise, it made sense that they’d kill off characters, and it only seemed premature in retrospect.
Also, since we SO were not accustomed to post-credits scenes then, I didn’t realize there was a post-credits scene with Charles for over a decade, so when he showed up at the end of the Wolverine, I was EXTREMELY confused. lol.
There is a viking era x-men fan film called Logan the Wolf... probably the best fan film around at the moment. The fight scenes are brutal...
Would love to hear your take on it.
The movie gave us Kelsey Grammer as Hank "Beast" McCoy. That alone makes it good. Even if everything else would suck (but it doesn't) it would still be enjoyable over the scenes where Beast is present.
I like the theme of evolution, how Jean evolved into the phoenix (I know that in the comics it’s different) and how the cure will reverse the person from mutant to non mutant, there’s something there but everything in this film is undercooked
I actually liked Last Stand. My biggest issues as you noted were the deaths of Cyclops and Professor X. Cyclops has been mis-managed on screen the whole time though in the films, so it was kind of a last dig. Outside of those deaths, it was a good X-Men film, certainly in my view better than most of what has come sense for the X-Men on screen.