The passed month i have put maximal effort into my accessories and realized i have spent about 5 years not trying hard enough lol. Excited for the progress that is about to come
I’ve legit had a client grimace through entire sets of accessories without any velocity loss. I kinda thought he was faking it to make me think he was working hard, but he likely had a lower tolerance for discomfort. Just had to tell him to amrap a leg press set for him to really understand how many more reps he had when rating his rpes.
Personally when I see a hack squat amrap in my program I get excited. It also helped one of the other guys at my gym were competing to see who could do the heaviest set of 6 for a while as well.
Yes but most beginner powerlifters are not close to the optimal weight class for their frame and should focus on muscle development long term to reach taht
Absolutely fantastic video that every powerlifter and coach should see. I went through a bit of a revolution in own my training after hearing Paul Carter on Table Talk and digging into his and Chris Beardsley's stuff around the beginning of 2023.
Im general, i think this is a solid take. However, i would strongly contend that proximity to failure, assuming a reasonably close proximity to 1 RM, such as >60% or so, is not nearly as important as many make it out to be. In fact, as long as total reps are matched, multiple great pieces of research showed that hypertrophy results were the same by doing half the reps per set, but doubling sets to compensate. This would imply that total mechanical tension is dramatically more important than proximity to failure for hypertrophy. This has important implications for sport or multi-systems athletes, as it can reduce fatigue from hypertrophy training while getting similar results. Oliver et al and Schoenfeld et al have two great papers on this topic.
If you do have links to those, I would be interested in seeing them. From the evidence I have seen, the only consistent results that match hypertrophy training further away from failure ended up with a significant increase in volume. Sets taken to failure can be reasonably matched regardless of load, but with generally higher fatigue from more reps. The only studies that I know that have shown similar hypertrophy further away from failure did train with much heavier load, around a 10 rep max or so.
I still think you can put size and strength on using the 1-5rep range without going to failure, cause you have plenty of tension from rep 1 of a 5 rep set. Or using 90% of 1 rep max and hit multiple singles and then drop the wait for a back down set which you push hard. I think this works well for the big barbell exercises, not so much machine work like PullDowns etc
Personally, I'm a huge fan of going to failure on almost every set, or at the least being at 1-2 RIR. This way I know that everything I do is worth my time and stimulating muscle growth. To manage the increased fatigue, I autoregulate and sometimes do fewer or more sets, and in general I might not be doing as many sets as some other people are, whom are more concerned with getting more volume. For the volume part, I make most of my hypertrophy directed sets be in the higher rep range
Wouldn't going extremely close to failure on accesories make the avoidance of velocity loss on the competition movements pointless? At the end of the day the muscles will still receive the stimulus of doing slow grindy reps due to intraset fatigue (and reps with less total muscle force production). Also, there are plenty of high level lifters that intentionally sandbag their accesories (olivares incline benching 75lb db, Rondel benching 95lb db and in general the flexxx crew to name a few) on the rationale that the total amount of mechanical tension achieved in their whole comp movements is more than enugh to stimulate hypetrophy and doing extra work is overkill and not a priority for a powerlifter.
Going close to failure on accessories like a quad isolation movement for example as opposed to squats is likely going to be less fatiguing, while ensuring that quads are the limiting factor and thus having a stronger hypertrophic effect (Exercise selection likely matters here though). Sandbagging accessories is usually unwise, you might as well skip them. Just because a successful athlete is doing something doesn’t mean that it’s relevant or that it’s the right thing to do. You’re better off listening to the more science-based coaches like the DDS guys or Milo Wolf
I think you are misunderstanding the reason to avoid velocity loss on comp lifts. It’s not because we are trying to avoid fatigue at all costs, but that the skill aspects of strength change dramatically. I’d encourage you to listen to the conversation I had with Data Driven Strength to help understand the distinction better.
The entire loss of velocity argument aside - Rondel Hunte and Jesus Olivares have maximised muscle gain for their frames for the most part. The average powerlifter is an early intermediate who hasn't and would benefit greatly from focusing seriously on hypertrophy work imho
Ive never understood people doing 3-4 quad accessories after squats. If youre really doing it right you likely cant do more than 2 exercises for your quads after squats. Something like Hack Squats followed by Leg Extensions 3 sets of each basically to failure across all 6 sets is going to get you better results than sandbagging yourself doing hack squats followed by belt squats, and then lunges, and then finally some leg extensions.
My hypertrophy work has me grimacing during most reps, but also in between sets and for the remainder of the day as I try to walk, sit, stand etc… am I doing it right?? Haha
Do you know what the relationship between proximity to failure and weekly volume is in relation to hypertrophy? As per the graph, if 3 sets per week to failure results in approximately 5.5% hypertrophy, then how many sets to rpe 9 or 8 would be required per week to achieve the same percentage increase in hypertrophy? I assume from the findings you present this relationship would not be linear and disproportionately more sets are required to maintain hypertrophy percentage for a given drop in intensity. I ask this as I have historically taken much influence from renaissance periodisation where volume recommendations are generally much higher than 3 sets per week (even for maintenance volume or minimum effective volume in many cases), but of course the criteria for those sets it’s 8+ reps per set and 2 reps on reserve or less. Apologies for any rambling or if the answer to this is in the references
Increasing load while using momentum ("body english") allows you to in effect do eccentric overload, and have a greater weighted stretch when doing lenghtend-position-biased movements. Eric Bugenhagen talked about that. Also, that's good for the tendons. So yeah, it turns out that ego lifting is good for you, if you increase the weight very gradually.
You should check out the resources I listed that all present a lot better evidence against those claims. But likely not as strong as “Eric Bugenhagen said” unfortunately.
Also, just a request - have you considered making a video which discusses leverages and their role in powerlifting? It's rare to see elite lifters with the short-torso, long-limbs build such as yours. I have a similar build and I've usually spent some time figuring out how to modify the lifts for my physiology. For instance, the traditional squat cues (chest up etc.) aren't all that great to begin with but they're especially poor for guys like us. Have also spent quite some time strengthening the quads because of how tendency to shoot the hips back when coming out of the hole. Bench requires tinkering as well as regards grip width, inability to arch as much because of a small torso and so on. I'm doing what everyone tells folks with this build to do - eat a lot and get big but be great if you made a video discussing these things.
How do you square the circle of relying on research whilst also appreciating the numerous limitations? You've been in the game long enough to know that if you go back a decade the prevailing research was saying one thing, and perhaps now it's saying the other. Obviously you can adapt to the facts/science. Grimacing may be a good proxy for effort but also sounds like something you'd subconsciously do if you were told it was. Almost a better idea not to know that.
You answered your own question to an extent. Part of the scientific method is identifying limitations in experiments and taking that into account when you draw conclusions or just redesigning the experiment. You run with the best available information until something more appropriate comes along.
@@scazscaz1348 That's fair. I suppose I don't like the idea of these topics being discussed in such certain terms, then, perhaps. Exercise science especially is quite low in the quality scale of scientific research. Given all these limitations, to my mind, it makes more sense to say "hey, maybe try this, it could be better for you given XYZ science" than "do this, it's better, XYZ confirms it".
Excellent video David! I follow Nukcols/Carter/the DDS guys already so I was aware about most of these concepts (effective reps, unilateral v bilateral) but you did a great job summarising their positions in 20 minutes. I had a question - how do you program accessories for your lifters? As you said, people tend to half-ass their hypertrophy work since they're done with their SBDs and its variations. I push pretty hard on accessories, especially during off-season blocks but I do sometimes feel a bit fatigued going out of the gym. It can also take up quite some time (2+ hours) Would you prescribe something like RPE 7/8/9 for 3 sets of curls/pulldowns etc?
Your question is really broad but it sounds like your understanding of fatigue might need a bit of updating. It’s not just “I feel tired” but it’s the measurable decrease in force production. So just walking away from the session fatigued is not really a big deal. Fatigue is an issue when it interferes with future training. So imagine the same session but with one you can repeat that same session and match or exceed loads from the previous session. No matter how you felt leaving that previous session, you are now in a good spot fatigue wise. But if you consistently are going into sessions underperforming then mechanical tension and force production are lower because of fatigue and that stimulates less progress in subsequent sessions. The whole answer to your question is that. Just combining those variables so that people can generally have a good chance at progressing both accessories and competition lifts over time.
@@BrazosValleyStrength That sounds like a very useful training heuristic, thanks boss. Yup, I shouldn't have used "fatigue" in that general sense. I've seen Paul Carter turning red whenever folks do the same in his Q&A sessions. I'd been thinking more along the general advice where they say you shouldn't "leave it all in the gym" every time you train, but analysing performance across accessories and using that to titrate volume/load sounds far more objective and useful.
I will say… with regard to rep ranges… some exercises are just better with higher reps lol. Obviously it’s less well researched… but we all understand that pump, burn, soreness, that “crampy” feeling likely indicate something positive with regards to muscle development. Sure you can do pec deck with 3x8 with a slight tempo to failure… but I’d bet you’re going to be able to get a lil more doing 3x12-15 with a 3:1:0 tempo. There is just a noticable difference, same way just pushing harder can
The research is actually very clear that those things don’t matter. Metabolite accumulation and the burning sensation are not drivers of hypertrophy. I’d encourage to you check out the resources I linked so you can update some of your understanding of the research.
There is volume fatigue based on blood oxygen and acid levels, then there is muscle fatigue from hard load work, which is short term recovery for upper chest to do more sets, longer one day recovery for lower body. When it takes a day to recover, that is not volume, ie., cardio. Cardio is endurance for the blood vessel system and heart, but is not muscle strength.
I rarely see that people get any benefit from their accessories. I think largely SBD creates all the Hypertrophy you need everything else is just extra fluff.
Who are these people you’re observing? Maybe total beginners only need SBD but I’ve never met a successful lifter, advanced or otherwise, that doesn’t utilise accessories to great benefit
@@scazscaz1348 You can look at the TSG programming for example. Or generally French Lifters, not matter if TSG Programming or ES Style tend to utilize very little. I observe them, myself and my own athletes. I get the difference in opinion but I think you haven’t seen much if you ask me who I am observing.
Someone in my gym never does the deadlift, he only does RDLs and last time he did a 405 conventional deadlift for seven reps the first time he tried the deadlift
The passed month i have put maximal effort into my accessories and realized i have spent about 5 years not trying hard enough lol. Excited for the progress that is about to come
I’ve legit had a client grimace through entire sets of accessories without any velocity loss. I kinda thought he was faking it to make me think he was working hard, but he likely had a lower tolerance for discomfort. Just had to tell him to amrap a leg press set for him to really understand how many more reps he had when rating his rpes.
Personally when I see a hack squat amrap in my program I get excited. It also helped one of the other guys at my gym were competing to see who could do the heaviest set of 6 for a while as well.
You have quite the teacher’s voice and tone, Dave. Enjoying your videos.
this video is pure gold! agree 100%, lower body assistance is daunting if you plan on doing it right
More Muscle might mean a different weight class🏋💪
Not if you lose fat
Dude your lifts are insane. 150kg bench at 67 years old is crazy
Yes but most beginner powerlifters are not close to the optimal weight class for their frame and should focus on muscle development long term to reach taht
That’s where I struggled in competing I got to big lifting lighter so I got destroyed by points
ahhhh the good ol "Have you tried trying?"
Absolutely fantastic video that every powerlifter and coach should see. I went through a bit of a revolution in own my training after hearing Paul Carter on Table Talk and digging into his and Chris Beardsley's stuff around the beginning of 2023.
my favourite creator. Thanks dude
Very on point as usual 👌🏽
Hope the move's all swell. Thank you another great video!
Im general, i think this is a solid take. However, i would strongly contend that proximity to failure, assuming a reasonably close proximity to 1 RM, such as >60% or so, is not nearly as important as many make it out to be. In fact, as long as total reps are matched, multiple great pieces of research showed that hypertrophy results were the same by doing half the reps per set, but doubling sets to compensate. This would imply that total mechanical tension is dramatically more important than proximity to failure for hypertrophy. This has important implications for sport or multi-systems athletes, as it can reduce fatigue from hypertrophy training while getting similar results. Oliver et al and Schoenfeld et al have two great papers on this topic.
If you do have links to those, I would be interested in seeing them. From the evidence I have seen, the only consistent results that match hypertrophy training further away from failure ended up with a significant increase in volume. Sets taken to failure can be reasonably matched regardless of load, but with generally higher fatigue from more reps. The only studies that I know that have shown similar hypertrophy further away from failure did train with much heavier load, around a 10 rep max or so.
The best advice is to do training like powerlifting for all movement pattern one or two movement par muscle
this is your best video. Thank you
I still think you can put size and strength on using the 1-5rep range without going to failure, cause you have plenty of tension from rep 1 of a 5 rep set. Or using 90% of 1 rep max and hit multiple singles and then drop the wait for a back down set which you push hard. I think this works well for the big barbell exercises, not so much machine work like PullDowns etc
Personally, I'm a huge fan of going to failure on almost every set, or at the least being at 1-2 RIR. This way I know that everything I do is worth my time and stimulating muscle growth. To manage the increased fatigue, I autoregulate and sometimes do fewer or more sets, and in general I might not be doing as many sets as some other people are, whom are more concerned with getting more volume.
For the volume part, I make most of my hypertrophy directed sets be in the higher rep range
Cool video.
Wouldn't going extremely close to failure on accesories make the avoidance of velocity loss on the competition movements pointless? At the end of the day the muscles will still receive the stimulus of doing slow grindy reps due to intraset fatigue (and reps with less total muscle force production).
Also, there are plenty of high level lifters that intentionally sandbag their accesories (olivares incline benching 75lb db, Rondel benching 95lb db and in general the flexxx crew to name a few) on the rationale that the total amount of mechanical tension achieved in their whole comp movements is more than enugh to stimulate hypetrophy and doing extra work is overkill and not a priority for a powerlifter.
Going close to failure on accessories like a quad isolation movement for example as opposed to squats is likely going to be less fatiguing, while ensuring that quads are the limiting factor and thus having a stronger hypertrophic effect (Exercise selection likely matters here though). Sandbagging accessories is usually unwise, you might as well skip them. Just because a successful athlete is doing something doesn’t mean that it’s relevant or that it’s the right thing to do. You’re better off listening to the more science-based coaches like the DDS guys or Milo Wolf
I think you are misunderstanding the reason to avoid velocity loss on comp lifts. It’s not because we are trying to avoid fatigue at all costs, but that the skill aspects of strength change dramatically. I’d encourage you to listen to the conversation I had with Data Driven Strength to help understand the distinction better.
The entire loss of velocity argument aside - Rondel Hunte and Jesus Olivares have maximised muscle gain for their frames for the most part.
The average powerlifter is an early intermediate who hasn't and would benefit greatly from focusing seriously on hypertrophy work imho
hey man if possible can you add time stamps
More intensity is more time efficient
Ive never understood people doing 3-4 quad accessories after squats. If youre really doing it right you likely cant do more than 2 exercises for your quads after squats. Something like Hack Squats followed by Leg Extensions 3 sets of each basically to failure across all 6 sets is going to get you better results than sandbagging yourself doing hack squats followed by belt squats, and then lunges, and then finally some leg extensions.
Just started following you. Great content! This isnt meant to be rude or anything - Are you Natural? you have a great physique.
He competes in USAPL which is one of the most stringently drug tested feds. So I’d say he is!
Challenge Accepted.
My hypertrophy work has me grimacing during most reps, but also in between sets and for the remainder of the day as I try to walk, sit, stand etc… am I doing it right?? Haha
can you make a video about where to search for studies?
I linked a number of resources. If you are just generally searching you can use google scholar
Sounds like your saying no pain no gain which how we lifted in the 70s and 80s
Do you know what the relationship between proximity to failure and weekly volume is in relation to hypertrophy? As per the graph, if 3 sets per week to failure results in approximately 5.5% hypertrophy, then how many sets to rpe 9 or 8 would be required per week to achieve the same percentage increase in hypertrophy? I assume from the findings you present this relationship would not be linear and disproportionately more sets are required to maintain hypertrophy percentage for a given drop in intensity. I ask this as I have historically taken much influence from renaissance periodisation where volume recommendations are generally much higher than 3 sets per week (even for maintenance volume or minimum effective volume in many cases), but of course the criteria for those sets it’s 8+ reps per set and 2 reps on reserve or less.
Apologies for any rambling or if the answer to this is in the references
If we want to maximize muscle a RPE 7-8 for accessories and 10sets per week per muscle group enough?
Seems like you didn’t watch the video at all.
I watch it sir, even saw you squatting and do all the accessories harder, i just want to confirm? 🤧
@newtoss I pretty clearly recommend going harder than 7-8.
What if I want to cut but I still need to build muscle to lift more
Same answer
Increasing load while using momentum ("body english") allows you to in effect do eccentric overload, and have a greater weighted stretch when doing lenghtend-position-biased movements. Eric Bugenhagen talked about that. Also, that's good for the tendons. So yeah, it turns out that ego lifting is good for you, if you increase the weight very gradually.
You should check out the resources I listed that all present a lot better evidence against those claims. But likely not as strong as “Eric Bugenhagen said” unfortunately.
Not as strong as "I tried it and it works for me" while also making logical sense.@@BrazosValleyStrength
Also, just a request - have you considered making a video which discusses leverages and their role in powerlifting?
It's rare to see elite lifters with the short-torso, long-limbs build such as yours. I have a similar build and I've usually spent some time figuring out how to modify the lifts for my physiology.
For instance, the traditional squat cues (chest up etc.) aren't all that great to begin with but they're especially poor for guys like us. Have also spent quite some time strengthening the quads because of how tendency to shoot the hips back when coming out of the hole.
Bench requires tinkering as well as regards grip width, inability to arch as much because of a small torso and so on.
I'm doing what everyone tells folks with this build to do - eat a lot and get big but be great if you made a video discussing these things.
How do you square the circle of relying on research whilst also appreciating the numerous limitations? You've been in the game long enough to know that if you go back a decade the prevailing research was saying one thing, and perhaps now it's saying the other. Obviously you can adapt to the facts/science.
Grimacing may be a good proxy for effort but also sounds like something you'd subconsciously do if you were told it was. Almost a better idea not to know that.
You answered your own question to an extent. Part of the scientific method is identifying limitations in experiments and taking that into account when you draw conclusions or just redesigning the experiment.
You run with the best available information until something more appropriate comes along.
@@scazscaz1348 That's fair. I suppose I don't like the idea of these topics being discussed in such certain terms, then, perhaps. Exercise science especially is quite low in the quality scale of scientific research. Given all these limitations, to my mind, it makes more sense to say "hey, maybe try this, it could be better for you given XYZ science" than "do this, it's better, XYZ confirms it".
too bad I don't have Instagram
Excellent video David!
I follow Nukcols/Carter/the DDS guys already so I was aware about most of these concepts (effective reps, unilateral v bilateral) but you did a great job summarising their positions in 20 minutes.
I had a question - how do you program accessories for your lifters? As you said, people tend to half-ass their hypertrophy work since they're done with their SBDs and its variations.
I push pretty hard on accessories, especially during off-season blocks but I do sometimes feel a bit fatigued going out of the gym. It can also take up quite some time (2+ hours)
Would you prescribe something like RPE 7/8/9 for 3 sets of curls/pulldowns etc?
Your question is really broad but it sounds like your understanding of fatigue might need a bit of updating. It’s not just “I feel tired” but it’s the measurable decrease in force production. So just walking away from the session fatigued is not really a big deal. Fatigue is an issue when it interferes with future training.
So imagine the same session but with one you can repeat that same session and match or exceed loads from the previous session. No matter how you felt leaving that previous session, you are now in a good spot fatigue wise. But if you consistently are going into sessions underperforming then mechanical tension and force production are lower because of fatigue and that stimulates less progress in subsequent sessions.
The whole answer to your question is that. Just combining those variables so that people can generally have a good chance at progressing both accessories and competition lifts over time.
@@BrazosValleyStrength That sounds like a very useful training heuristic, thanks boss.
Yup, I shouldn't have used "fatigue" in that general sense. I've seen Paul Carter turning red whenever folks do the same in his Q&A sessions.
I'd been thinking more along the general advice where they say you shouldn't "leave it all in the gym" every time you train, but analysing performance across accessories and using that to titrate volume/load sounds far more objective and useful.
Support Comment
I will say… with regard to rep ranges… some exercises are just better with higher reps lol. Obviously it’s less well researched… but we all understand that pump, burn, soreness, that “crampy” feeling likely indicate something positive with regards to muscle development. Sure you can do pec deck with 3x8 with a slight tempo to failure… but I’d bet you’re going to be able to get a lil more doing 3x12-15 with a 3:1:0 tempo. There is just a noticable difference, same way just pushing harder can
The research is actually very clear that those things don’t matter. Metabolite accumulation and the burning sensation are not drivers of hypertrophy. I’d encourage to you check out the resources I linked so you can update some of your understanding of the research.
You training with Jeremy.. be careful.. just saying
what can chris lift in conventional deadlift?
There is volume fatigue based on blood oxygen and acid levels, then there is muscle fatigue from hard load work, which is short term recovery for upper chest to do more sets, longer one day recovery for lower body. When it takes a day to recover, that is not volume, ie., cardio. Cardio is endurance for the blood vessel system and heart, but is not muscle strength.
I rarely see that people get any benefit from their accessories. I think largely SBD creates all the Hypertrophy you need everything else is just extra fluff.
Interesting perspective. I don’t agree at all.
Who are these people you’re observing? Maybe total beginners only need SBD but I’ve never met a successful lifter, advanced or otherwise, that doesn’t utilise accessories to great benefit
@@scazscaz1348 You can look at the TSG programming for example. Or generally French Lifters, not matter if TSG Programming or ES Style tend to utilize very little.
I observe them, myself and my own athletes. I get the difference in opinion but I think you haven’t seen much if you ask me who I am observing.
Doing only SBD for hypertrophy is great if you want a T-Rex physique
Someone in my gym never does the deadlift, he only does RDLs and last time he did a 405 conventional deadlift for seven reps the first time he tried the deadlift
awesome