Getting Back to GET BACK with Antony Rotunno part one |
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Matt Williamson and guest Antony Rotunno talk more about the wonder of GET BACK. Topics covered are Peter Jackson's editorializing by omitting several key Yoko Ono moments, the 3 brothers + Ringo, and more! This is the first of three parts.
Antony's other podcasts & website:
Glass Onion On John Lennon: bit.ly/3BEoBke
Life & Life Only: lifeandlifeonl...
Film Gold: anchor.fm/film...
SUPPORT Pop Goes the 60s on PATREON: www.patreon.com/user?u=81879771
Fascinating discussion. It just proves that Get Back is the gift that keeps on giving. I do think that there is a context to the Get Back sessions that is often overlooked, and that the footage in the docuseries is not self-contained. I thought the scene where John mentions the Allen Klein meeting was revelatory as, for some reason, I always thought he kept it quiet from the others, at least initially. I was also surprised to see Yoko "dancing along" to some of the songs (particularly "Commonwealth") and happily chatting with Linda ! Certainly, we see more of her during the Twickenham footage. I'm on my fourth viewing at the moment and it's brilliant ! I would enjoy a longer cut too but I'm also happy we got 8 hours !!
With all due respect to my fellow drummers, as myself and people I talked to have worked in bands with drummers.. can’t we agree Ringo is the very best drummer to have in a band? he just there, patiently listens , probably working out the best beat in his head, when they others start playing he joins him, already with a great beat, there is no drama, no ego, when Paul tells him which beat he wants.
Watching Get Back I’m thinking: bloody hell, John, Paul and George are so spoiled by having him in the group. Ringo is clearly the glue that ties them together personally and musically.
Hey Carlos! Good to hear from you. "Spoiled" is a great term to apply to John, Paul & George with regard to good ol' Ringo! I think the Get Back documentary, and more so the nagra reels, prove Ringo's strong value and how easy he made it for the other three to craft their songs. Great comment.
I heartily agree.
Seeing the Allen Klein conversation in Get Back is like seeing Star Wars Episode 3, with Anakin starting to go to the Dark Side already having seen Episode 4 and beyond... So it's like "Oh no... It was all going so well, I forgot it eventually had to go bad" 😅
14:20 - The thing about Yoko’s attitude is that she was coming from a Background of artistic workshops and INPUT whereas Linda was coming from a place of ‘observe unobserved’ & be in the right place at the right time to take the picture
Essentially Yoko is an avant-garde artist and Linda is a photographer
IMHO both their inputs (or lack of input?!) Should be viewed in this light
The bottom line is that whatever Yoko considers herself to be, the general public didn't and still doesn't want to hear her "music", her "singing" or her ideas.
I agree entirely. Yoko didn't understand that this wasn't a workshop, so she thought her input was valid
@@gerrycoogan6544 yup👍 admittedly she ain’t had as many hits as her Husband!
I always Enjoy this podcast. My take is that one big reason George decided to place more emphasis on songwriting v Guitar playing is because songwriting is what generated income in the music biz. He also saw how much money John and Paul were getting from songwriting. Thus the struggle to get more songs on the albums. George has always been described as the most money conscious of the four Beatles.
Ringo had a mostly well deserved carte blanche with the guys.
I really like Get Back for a number of reasons. I think it shows that the breakup was a long process and that the Beatles were aware that this was the process they were in. There was a lot of "have we come to the breakup yet' type talk amongst all of them. They are prepared to continue, but they also prepared to not continue. At the same time, it also shows how fully invested they were when working on stuff. Despite the slow beginning of the project, nobody was hanging back after Twickenum. I think Jackson focussed on the band with regard to the band and their music. I'm glad he didn't include the Yoko dialogue ( although including the Yoko dialogue from the lunch counter makes her look pretty good "go and meet with George now; you can do it".) I think it distracts from he heart of the story; whether that is a story about the music they are making of why they are breaking up. A side note on Yoko: After living in East Asia for 6 years I am much more aware of what an absolute rebel Yoko was. Her hair, her deportment, and especially her art. That woman was breaking down a massive amount of cultural restrictions. The pressure women feel in East Asia to conform is unimaginable. In that regard, she is pretty bad ass- like punk rock bad ass. To be sure, part of her appeal about John was that he would be a patron with deep pockets. But I have no doubt that she was also deeply in love with him. The bad news is all of this means absolutely nothing for the other three Beatles and isn't germane to what they want. Except for the tall fact that this is what John wants and if they go against it, they will lose him.
Yes I think you make many good points
Great stuff Matt, really enjoyed what you guys had to say about Ringo, he is a special person & a special BEATLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, Jesse!
There were FOUR special Beatles in my opinion!
I find myself at times rolling my eyes and at others becoming unreasonably agitated when commenters who are clearly not drummers or who have never actually played in a band downplay Ringo’s role or who his contributions to The Beatles and to rock drumming in general. I LOVED it Matt when you referred to Ringo as The Glue in the band. The scope of his contributions extend far beyond his considerable skills as a musician.
@@edwindavies875 Yes, and Ringo's work and the WAY he worked and supported the band during these sessions, is proof of his great value.
We're now spending more hours than the length of Jackson's film absorbing all this Beatles info Matt! Great stuff.
I’ll never stop talking about Get Back after seeing it so much Information
Good to hear Tim, because I have more coming!
@@popgoesthe60s52 I like your style of delivering good debate and truth I’m a major Beatles fan born on George’s Birthday
Have either of you watched the Understanding Lennon and McCartney series here on UA-cam? It may be even longer than Get Back, but it's very insightful while leaving the viewer to make up his or her mind.
Hi Gordon. Yes, just watched the updated one. Mr (or Mrs) Breathless is truly a master (this is Antony)
Yes, I've watched parts and I really like the presentation.
Yep, I love it.
It is quite good. Outstanding in fact. Not sure who Breathless is, but he/she REALLY knows the subject.
@@AntonyRotunno One thing that's impressive is all the guitar-playing going on while they have those conversations which Jackson's MAL technology has filtered out. The playing is pretty good considering it was a masking device. Possibly the deepest dive for Beatlemaniacs? As you say, Mr or Mrs B is brilliant. My main takeaway is that something happened in India...Really enjoyed you and Mat's discussion, and looking forward to the next one!
This is a great conversation.
I'll throw in my own thoughts;
1) Jackson didn't make an 8-hour film for casual observers. He made it for Beatles fans who have been waiting for half a century for this treat. I'd watch footage of Ringo peeling potatoes if I knew it happened just before they recorded some classic track.
2) The biggest reason for the break up of the Beatles was John Lennon. He was no longer leading the band or writing the best songs and he couldn't deal with it. They messed around with Don't Let Me Down for days, getting nowhere, before Paul took control and guided it into being Lennon's finest track in the session. Lennon wasn't strong enough to prevent Ono and Klein exploiting him while his ego prevented him from recognising that McCartney was still his strongest ally, finest collaborator and best friend. John was his own worst enemy and had a self-destructive streak in him which cost him dearly as an artist *and* as a man. So sad.
3) It was very unfortunate that John and Paul failed to appreciate how far George had progressed as a songwriter but his method was so much slower and methodical than the way John and Paul worked. If the pressure was on, John or Paul could knock out an entire album in a couple of weeks but George needed to work for weeks on a single song and they just didn't have compatible working methods.
4) I can't wait until Part 2 comes out!
Yes, Lennon is certainly a main factor in the break up. His ability to fall prey to manipulation must be put on him and not Ono or Klein. However, there is some disturbing evidence as to how Ono "handled" him, which bears more discussion. As for George, I disagree with you a bit. George was not on their level until the last possible moment with Something and Here Comes the Sun, which is after this period. I may do a whole other video on this topic because it needs more context and time line considerations. So much to talk about, Gerry! I have 2 more parts coming and I'm already jotting down notes for a possible fourth!
Of all of the discussions in this video I really appreciated the time spent on how Ringo was so special as the elder statesman and being the glue and knowing just what to do at the right time.with just the right drumming to compliment the 3 other brothers. Thanks for the video.
I appreciate the comments, Terry. Thank you.
Another great discussion. I will never get tired of talking about the Beatles. Matt, you made some good points about George. Having been so obsessed with guitars for so long, it is strange that he didn't go further. I think it does have something to do with Clapton and thinking he can't compete, and no longer having enough confidence in his playing. He certainly didn't seem to get any confidence boosts from Paul and John
No Get Back fatigue that I've encountered within the Beatle die hands. SO much to talk about. Keep up the fantastic work. You're one of my favorite YT channels.
Glad to hear you say that because there is more coming!
One thing I think people are not taking into account when it comes to Yoko Ono being in the studio/with John all the time. Only 6 weeks before they start to work on the Get Back project, Yoko had a miscarriage. I think it goes quite a way to answering why John wanted her there all the time and why she might not feel like laughing at what are ‘in jokes’ the lads share. Also, there’s a good chance she didn’t really get their sense of humour … English, let alone Scouse English, wasn’t her first language.
Yes, and do we know if the band was aware at the time that Linda was in early pregnancy? Also, about Yoko, I've often thought that the worst of the issues with her presence could have already happened during the White Album sessions, and that by the time of Get Back sessions the others were basically resigned to her being John's shadow in the studio and often his spokesperson.
There's a revealing moment in Scorsese's documentary on George Harrison ('Living in the Material World') in which Terry Gilliam (I think - it may have been Eric Idle) is talking about how much George loved hanging out with Python members, George apparently once said the spirit of The Beatles had passed to Python or some such thing, but when George got involved in producing 'The Life of Brian' he attended a group meeting wherein the members of Monty Python were arguing with one another and that George never attended another Python meeting after that. George was apparently put off by arguments in general, but of course that's part of being a member of a band or troupe.
Excellent interview! I've watched all three episodes three times, I'm going to the IMAX on Sunday, and I'm about to pre-order the blu-rays, so needless to say, I think the doc is essential to lifelong Beatles fans like myself. However... what is really missing is access to the two private meetings after George walked out. The meeting with George that didn't go well and then the meeting that settled things so that George could return to the sessions. I imagine there were other very key meetings with Aspinall and Martin that we are not privvy to. I know the Lindsay-Hogg crew were not allowed into those meetings, but if they had been and if we could see and hear those meetings, then the whole thing would be a better story, a better narrative.
For example: seeing and hearing Yoko 'speaking for John' in that first meeting intended to mend the breakup would give us a hell of a lot of insight into the personnel dynamics going on. I'm sure George was incensed, like 'Oh, you're having your girlfriend tell me the rules, are you?'
Secondly, I love the fact that without George Martin producing, The Beatles producing themselves have a hard struggle getting past goofing off and wasting time. The doc shows that George Martin was a catalyst for simply getting a respectable album done. We know that the 'proper' album, Abbey Road, done under the producing auspices of George Martin, was the pinnacle of the artistic and commercial power of the band, in stark contrast to the mess that resulted from trying to make an album without active producing expertise from George Martin. In the Get Back sessions, George Martin is there, but he just makes a few suggestions and mostly is reduced to 'our A&R man' hanging around. I'm in the minority for actually liking the Phil Spector contributions to the project. 'Here, Phil. Take this mess of tapes and make an album out of it'... and he did.
On a side note, after watching the doc a couple of times, I had a dream that all four Beatles were pirates in the West Indies. And no, I haven't seen that sequel to Pirates of the Caribbean in which McCartney and Keef are pirates. I deduce that the dream came from the swagger each of the Fab Four have at various times in the doc and all the drinking.
Phil Spector deserved and still deserves a lot of credit to making those tapes into a decent album. The 2021 mix made me realize that. Glyn Johns' version was basically a more realistic version of what the sessions were like, but as a proper album, it was lousy. Spector's editing choices on I Me Mine and Dig a Pony in particular saved those songs, even the Long and Winding Road. Beatles always needed a producer or an outsider to guide them
Excellent point about what was said during the meetings. That is one of the eternal top five unanswered questions of Beatles history.
Totally agree with your post about Phil Spector, my only issue was Dont Let Me Down being excluded from the Let it Be album, which my guess is Allen Klien most likely gave instructions to use it for the Hey Jude album instead.
Just on George walking out at Twickenham Ive finally just watched the first episode and its clear what takes place. Rehearsing his new song Get Back (which in the same episode he quite brilliantly creates it out of nowhere) Paul is somewhat micro managing the performances of himself and the others and wondering if the chords are right. George answers back and its not exactly a row but you can see George is not happy whereas John is more passive about it and receptive to Paul. George then stays seated until lunch whereas John and Paul are often seen standing and playing off each other as they form Pauls original idea into a song. Georges head is down and hes playing along but not really participating with any ideas or enthusiasm. At lunch hes on his way. Its as sad an event to watch as it was enthralling to view Paul creating Get Back from literally nothing. Overall it is two and half hours of incredible footage. THANK YOU Peter Jackson.
I love how tactile John is with Ringo. Like when they walk out of the studio wrapped in each other's arms. John clearly adores him. Although it's been thoroughly debunked already, the apocryphal "Not the best drummer in the Beatles" comment should be well buried by now. Thankfully.
I’ve always hated that damn quote. It gets brought up in the comments here every once in a while.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Lennon is second only to Dorothy Parker in false attributions. I see this all the time. If it's snarky or visionary, someone will claim Lennon said it.
As to that quote, I heard what Lennon actually said was that Ringo MAY not have been the better drummer (than Best), but he was the better Beatle." When John met Ringo, Ringo was already a local celebrity in Liverpool, that, and the fact that Ringo was older, may be some reasons John adored him from the start.
@@Monkofmagnesia I think Mark Lewisohn finally tracked down the original source of the comment, and I've already forgotten who said it...but Lennon was unequivocal in his estimation of Best's drumming. Not a fan.
Lennon never even said that! Simply offering, "I heard..." just doesn't cut it. The quote doesn't exist.
Your comment that "everything is an edit," and the attitude of "hard-core" fans--of which I am--is brilliant. Spot on!
I read that Patti Harrison walked out on George the same week that he walked out of the band. If this is in fact true, this was a huge factor that was missed.
Yes. I covered this in my _All Things Must Pass Was Not Rejected by the Beatles_ videos. Check it out here if you'd like: ua-cam.com/video/m--gIaUEZtA/v-deo.html
I love Antony’s UA-cam channel it’s a hidden gem: that’s awesome y’all are friends
Thank you!
It was long enough for this hard-core fan.
This conversation was amazing, thank you!
Nice you mentioned Maureen at the rooftop concert. It was as if she was back in The Cavern, really sweet.
Great video Matt! You know, I never really put much thought into the Allen Klein bit, until you pointed out the significance of Peter Jackson putting it near the end. And you're right - it does make for an interesting - if not ominous - cliffhanger all right. Some may think of it as a sort of bias. I honestly don't. I see it as adding a new perspective on who might have been responsible for the Beatles' breakup.
I always have to remember that all this was when the Beatles were still in their 20s.
I really enjoy your discussions of the Beatles, so great Heaton and you get along to make videos.
Thank you, Mika. Heaton and I have another video coming up soon, so stay tuned!
A fabulous time to be a Beatles fan.
The IMAX show is in two days, my Blu-rays are ordered... There is no such thing as Get Back fatigue for this cat.
I'm glad to hear that R&R Woman because I have more coming!
Get Back is showing us that Let it Be wasn't the 'break up album.' Contrary to the George Martin narrative, maybe Abbey Road should have that title: The Klein situation really kicks in, not one but three Beatles effectively walk out of the studio leaving Paul alone to go off and play with Steve Miller, Yoko in a bed, and of course the notorious chocolate digestive incident (!) Wish all that had been caught on film.
I totally agree that Abbey Road should have the title of "breakup album" but because there isn't video, that will be a hard sell.
I'll never forget a discussion i had with two other classmates in 1975 during study hall. One made the point that even their last album, Let it Be, was great. We didn't grasp that it was done before Abbey Road, an even greater album!
Fabulous video and great discussion!! Thank you both for doing this! All the best!
Thank you so much. Parts 2 & 3 are coming so stay tuned!
Excellent talk! 🙂
Thank, Larry!
Antony saying this is a "major addition to the canon" is hitting the nail on the head. The more I watch Get Back, the more I see, and there is still so much more in there waiting to be unpacked. I eagerly devour all your videos on the topic, Matt, thanks!
Much thanks! Yes, Antony nailed it!
This is a fantastic conversation. Man, I love this channel.
Glad you enjoy it! More to come.
I completely agree, they suffered from PTSD. That kept coming to my mind watching Get Back.
Always such an addition to my long life...thanks!
One of the best discussions of band dynamics within the Beatles I can remember, it's as rich as a book.
Awesome work as usual, Matt... and I'm still at the 13:22 point. Just one point about Yoko's lack of excitement at the end of the rooftop concert: some people say that she was really worried about the possibility of being arrested along with the band and deported. There's was something going on with her life that I can't recall that could lead her to being deported. I'm 100% with you on her lack of excitement about anything else.
I was unaware of a potential deportation. Thanks for that info.
Yes, I've heard (or read) that as well. From what I can recall, she had been arrested once before and was threatened with deportation
I could have listened to another couple of hours of this at least. Thank you chaps 🙏🏻
There is more to come so stay tuned!
Had to go back and watch more of you two after "you never give me your money". Such a great team.
Exceptionally interesting.
Well-timed discussion. The point about PTSD makes some sense for John & George. Should also say that George still came up with great licks in the late years (Hey Bulldog) yet he seemed reluctant to devote energy to the guitar from 66 to 68- will we ever know the real story behind Paul playing some of those great solos?
I would rate the Get Back documentary 11 out of 10.
Yes, agree though you may have slightly underscored it! Thanks for watching Robert.
Hi guys good discussion. I am 56 and been a fan since I was 4, but maybe not into so many details as you all. But having seen the original let it be at the movies eons ago, I have really enjoyed Get back now. I have heard and seen a lot of the comments and the big one about that this changes a lot of the narrative etc. I agree to this up to a point, it is certainly much better and more positive to see this. But in the end, it is a bitter / sweet experience for me. I do see that things were not as drab as believed, and I see a lot of the power of them working together. But, I do see also that they are heading towards the break up - it seemed they weren't quite sure how to continue or couldn't agree to it. There were a lot of desires from John and George to do other things, and Yokos influence is undeniable. But the biggest and saddest thing to see is how P and J treated George. He probably brought in more songs than them, but his were scantily gone over, mocked slightly in the case of I Me Mine (by John), and no real effort was put into Old Brown Shoe. Instead they went over 3 or 4 of J and Ps relentlessly. John did try a couple of times to suggest doing more of Georges but it didn't happen. Also, its such a pity they could not get it together for more of a proper concert.
They did over 70 takes of All Things Must Pass and George mocked Pauls songs " Bathroom Window," and "Maxwell" so he gave just as good as he got.
@@popgoesthe60s52 point taken… i was just responding to Get Back. I think though on the balance of things, George was most hard done by. We can see in the meeting revealed recently in 69 after Abby Road that john was asking for 4 songs each from the 3 for the next album
Great content, fellas. Thanks
great discussion guys.....very informed!
Very good. Glad there's more to come.
There's a bit in Get Back where George says he doesn't think of himself being as an improviser in the same way Clapton is. He was lead guitarist but he was never into long flashy solos or anything like that, and that continued into his solo work. But although his lead guitar work was economical, that reflected the fact that he saw his playing as serving the song, rather than the song being a springboard for a display of instrumental fireworks. And I think his playing- especially his slide playing, which became a feature after The Beatles- was often excellent and it does elevate the songs.
AMPoO , If you think about it, None of the FAB 4 did any long , flashy Solos of any kind. Ringo didn't like it , but did a few minute minor Drum Solo on Abbey Road. Drum solos were in Vogue then: Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, Jon Bonham, and many others of the Blues Rock genre. Sometimes, Less is More. The Beatles, didn't find the need to do Solos per se. Like Cream, The Who, Blind Faith, Led Zep, and on and on....
On the Yoko issue, Mark Lewisohn listened to all available Nagra tapes in Jan of 2019. And he also mentioned how little Yoko caused problems. I trust Lewisohn's take.
Don't trust anyone's take until you hear it for yourself. Lewisohn does not deny that her presence was an issue for the band. That he makes clear.
Great talk, guys. Thanks.
A deep dive into the psychology of the Beatles, Brian Epstein, even George Martin, would be a great read. Great information Matt. Thank you.
Great discussion! Regarding wanting "more..." I'm good with the quantity of coverage we have from these sessions. I don't NEED to see more from this. I'd like to see some professional cleanup of live footage from the touring years. I'm not talking like "Eight Days A Week." No. That was a documentary with concert excerpts. I want "Get Back" level cleanup of the Budokan and Shea footage. That's the kind of thing I want to see.
Fascinating discussion. Totally agree that touring was traumatizing, probably mostly for George being such an extreme introvert. Also completely agree their time had to end. They burned so brightly, they had to flame out.
Great discussion on 3 Brothers + Ringo at 32:03. Get Back really had great insight into Ringo, and it showed him as a professional on the order of a studio hired gun. He sat patiently on his kit watching them solidify ideas and when they wanted to give it a test run he dropped in with the perfect drum beat, a beat that I'm sure was being quietly developed while they were hashing out their own parts. In short, he was watching and taking notes. He was never a distraction and never the center of attention and maybe as with Paul, he was a constant quiet reminder that they are at work and on the clock. You can be a good band with an average drummer but I can't think of a single great band that didn't start with a great drummer. And Ringo was a great drummer. He had a distinct style that you can pick out in recordings, a unique voice so to speak. But I think he helped create a space for them to create. He was a very positive influence on the creative members of the band. Maybe more than a drummer, Ringo was a great bandmate.
Lennon was too in a different way, surprisingly. That was another takeaway from the Jackson Get Back, just how positive and supportive John was to the other band members. He was a good big brother.
Yeah, John and Ringo's involvement surprised me too - for the better. Though marred from the get go, they settled into their groove, which was music making. The live show really derailed them.
I think when George left Yoko actually thought she should take his place lmao.. that's why she grabbed the mic 🎤 and started screeching and screaming
Great discussion. I liked what you were saying at the end about the Beatles relationships having run its course by the end, which is something I've thought about a lot. Musically, the 70s and beyond to me was them just wanting to relax and make the music that they wanted to make because they had already proven themselves time and time again. All but Paul refused to tour or even play live because all they ever knew about the music industry was as Beatles; at a certain point you'll get tired of being under that "Beatles" microscope and seeing how dehumanizing it all is. I'm surprised that they ever continued to engage with the industry at all after the split. They had seen and gone through maybe too much together so they really needed to move on from each other. Maybe 1966 was truly the time when they did need to move on instead of just trying to carry on as a studio band; the band probably stunted their personal growth and the angst just grew. They may never have ever gotten back together as the Beatles even if John hadn't died because they were just a part of each other's childhood and probably would've stayed that way
George did tour in '74 (I saw him in Toronto - first show, thankfully, before he completely lost his voice) and I guess that convinced him it wasn't worth it for him anymore.
@@buddyneher9359 I think it was the reception and the press more than the actual performances. He recalled standing ovations every night, and there were a lot positive reviews, but the overwhelming narrative became that it was a terrible tour. Everyone just went after him for that tour not meeting all of their expectations. He probably lost faith in the idea that his view of music and humanity could unite him with a public that liked him just because he was an ex-Fab
I'm with you Matt... Leaving any of the tensions that Yoko did bring into the already complicated Beatles relationship somewhat rewrites the end of the Beatles period. When people say... It was clear in the docu that Yoko wasn't an issue at all. The narrative is being rewritten. I don't think Yoko broke them up but she definitely was in the mix. I Have read that the reason that John was so interested in Allen Klein was partly because Allen Klein had read the room during that first initial meeting with John and Klein and Yoko and realized that telling John that he would make Yoko a star was exactly what John wanted to hear and convinced him even more that Klein was the guy.
In re: George Harrison. His years beyond the Beatles as a guitarist was brilliant slide guitar work. From his slide work all over Lennon's Imagine, & not just electric slide but on dobro slide from "Crippled Inside" & George's songs of many tracks, All Things Must Pass, Dark Horse the song "Far East Man," "Crackerbox Palace," "Living In The Material World," his swashbuckling slide on Badfinger's song, I think it's called "Day After Day," his 33 & 1/3 album "Learning How To Love You," & later "My Dark Sweet Lady," "Sue Me, Sue You Blues" & many, many other excellent solos & songs.
I just stumbled onto this site...THANK GOODNESS someone is finally discussing the portrayal of Yoko. Ok, Jackson might have said he had liberty in the project, but honestly, when has Yoko NOT controlled the situation? It is naive to think that he could have shown Yoko in a negative light (because she is certainly captured very positively) AND been able to produce the work to completion. It seems to me there might have been a conscious or unconscious effort to show both McCartney as understanding and Yoko as unobtrusive so that Jackson could get the project to the masses. He admitted himself he involved Paul, Ringo, and Yoko (maybe Olivia, can't remember).
Having seen it 4 times already, I can agree when he says it was too much to take in on first watch. I still haven't seen this footage enough
I'll follow the format of the segment and start with 'Editorializing by Jackson.' Obviously. a producer's purview, but a key theme coming out of the 8 or 9 hour documentary to be sure.
Yoko does her thing on the mic. Jackson gives us a 'Heather reaction shot'. Quite right, we do not see the other Beatles's reaction (although George has left the band at this point-so... two Beatles + John remaining to give us the reaction shot). What Jackson shows is Heather 'aping' Yoko on a mic some time later on, and I really thought that was special.
Allan Klein... cue organ music from a Dracula or Frankenstein movie. The day this takes place (one day before the roof top?) when John spills the beans to George. And what I take to be a meeting that the Beatles 'go upstairs for' a day or two later to discuss... This is Jackson telling us 'I've found the smoking gun. This is it.'
And I cannot argue against that. IT is one of his major contributions. Probably the biggest one. Yoko is the problem? Yoko is sitting on Paul's amp? Etc...
My read is that John has made it clear that he's done with the Beatles. He wants to do the Yoko thing. He wants to do other things. If the goal of the Beatles was to make money, he feels he has enough. Klein after all put out the Rolling Stones 'Hot Rocks' double LPs and the Red and Blue albums for the Beatles. He also took control of the Stones's catalogue up to 1971-which the Stones hated..
In any case, by January 1969 there is more than enough Beatles 'stuff' to retire into an Avante Garde life stile and live happily ever after with or without a Japanese wife.
The Three Brothers...
I agree with all that is said here. Ringo was 'the best back beat in the business'. A friend recently called my attention to the Concert for George, and how the sound of the band on stage totally changed when Ringo and Paul walked on. Ringo on drums, Paul on bass, that was the back beat of the Beatles, and it was probably the best one in the business.
It is also true that we see The Beatles having their squabbles and showing they could also resolve them. But there is the Paul thing here... He 'produced' the Beatles 'for the last three years'.
OK, its January 1969. That means he 'took control' for 1966, 1967 & 1968. WE can call it PTSD coming off the road, but Lennon was receding and Paul rising in the Studio Years for the band. There was Yesterday, Pepper, Hey Jude (White Album), Let It Be & Abbey Road. I stacked all my post-Beatles Beatle records on the table the other day... Paul's stack was easily twice as high as anyone else's. I had a few-but not all-Yoko's albums in there. The box sets (Wedding Album, All Things & Bangladesh remained on the shelf. John's production post-Beatles was anemic by comparison with Paul. And I see the logoc of saying that he had been trailing off since about 1966. The year after the road touring stopped.
OK, there was the 'lost weekend' for John. But it was more like a lost 5 years if you ask me.
What Jackson adds to the Three Brothers is George talking to John about a formula for the Beatles that would work going forward. He suggests he could put out a solo album to clear his 'backlog'. In fact, they all could. And George adds the nice touch suggesting it would make the Beatles better. Unfortunately, Brian Epstein was not there to realize it.
So it became the Eastman-Klein nuclear option instead.
George vs Other Guitarists...
Look, I see George putting out monster hits that Jimmy Page, Pete Townsend, Eric Clapton, Keith Richards, Jeff Beck never did. Top "Here Comes the Sun." Go, ahead I dare you (and there are may others).
This is controversial, but the guitar sounds on All Things Must Pass/Concert for Bangladesh are bright, new, Spector enhanced, and unmatched in the era. Springsteen comes close in 1980 with 'The River' (Ties That Bind). Or, we have to fast-forward to the Travelling Wilburys to get a sense of what George can bring to a super group. During the 'Get Back/Let it BE' era he did have a better mixing board at home than could be had at Abbey Road\. And he 'produced' demos for the White Alum at home. So, George was more to the Beatles than a lead guitar by 1969-70. He was beginning to dedicate himself to learning record production.
One wonders whether the other Beatles were really aware of its implications. Scuttling Apple would have neutralized Klein and put the Beatles back on top of their affairs..
Finally, and this may be a future topic on the show, Jackson has given us the 'Beatles Forever' formula as well as the 'smoking gun'. The combination is explosive.
The breakup didn't have to happen. But sadly Brian Epstein wasn't around to work his magic and earn his keep.
Thank you for the clever commenting - much appreciated!
Great video
I agree with your point about The Band.
George Harrison had some interesting comments about being a lead guitarist.
I can’t wait for the Blu ray
I love the Get Back discussions and am looking forward to your next installment. Does anyone else think that perhaps one of the stipulations George had for coming back was that John had to clean up his act a bit? He seems much more engaged, sober, and ready to work once they get to Apple, plus his (friendly) humor is back.
Good point. I think John knew and came back ready to work. I doubt George had to actually say it. It was understood.
I've not seen it yet. I'll try to get around to watching it eventually. It sounds very interesting.
I was 15 in 1964 when the Beatles first came to the US. I was a huge Beatles fan as were many of my friends. I sent $6.50 in cash to the Cow Palace in San Francisco for a ticket and received a ticket that was 3rd row center. My jerk of a father wouldn't let me go. My friends and I all had our favorites. Mine was Ringo, still is. He was such a lovely person and it really showed through. And he's an excellent drummer. Innovative. And I just want to say that many if not most of my favorite songs were written by George. I always thought that John was a jerk. Talented though.
Thank you for sharing the memories, Marlene. I'll bet your father never lived it down!
It could be that all of the footage that we did not see was of Yoko interfering. :)
Remember the ANTHOLOGY series was also shown over 3 nights on ABC tv Thanksgiving weekend with highlight of two new songs When FREE AS A BIRD video came on I almost felt like levitating following the bird
Editing and available information, is always the sticking point in historical understanding or lack thereof. But, I have to admit that with the wealth of material from January 1969, there probably isn't much left out that affects our understanding of the Beatles in that period. I doubt the entire 60 hours would change much about our understanding. I agree with you, Matt.
Its amazing the interest in this band of brothers is just as strong as the music itself even after all these years. I would say regardless of what might be happening when they "close the circle" to play as Paul has said, all issues are put to the side. When I hear their music its full of energy and joy and I don't hear tension in their voices or playing. Especially on songs John and George said they hated. Get Back has taught me to take those kind of comments with a grain of salt.
Great point. As Ringo said, all the bullshit went out the window when they played and it showed. Is Abbey Road the result of guys hating each other? No way.
Yes, Little Heather's reaction. And then later when she joins in.
Great discussion with Anthony! Some very good insights to the Get Back film and the Beatles in general. Interesting to hear your thoughts about George and where he could have taken his playing. I heard that the songs he composed in 1967 were composed on keyboard instead of guitar which was surprising to find that out. Goldman did make a point in his Lennon book about how George didn’t keep up with the other guitar heroes but I think his spiritual side overcame his love of music or any fame. Looking forward to the next video!
Thanks Bill! I love talking with Antony. Stay tuned for 2 more!
Just noticed your Washington County album from Arlo Guthrie on the back mantel. A favorite of mine. I love the Dylan cover, Percy's Song.
I think Yoko had a HUGE say in what got left on the cutting room floor of the final product.
You bring up a couple of things that I noticed. Heather’s reaction to Yoko was priceless. But later when she starts to mimic Yoko’s vocalization is hilarious. She almost seems to be mocking her.
Linda saying how much she likes Ringo. I’ve heard an interview with May Pang where she said Ringo was her favorite when the whole Beatlemania started.
Ringo’s exasperated looks especially around the “and then there were two” moments. It almost seemed as if he was thinking “why did I come back for this”. And he was quiet but it was clear that his first commitment was to The Magic Christian and everything else was secondary. Nothing else need be said.
Glyn was clearly walking on eggshells about Klein but he still all but called Klein a phony. John wouldn’t have heard anything negative anyway.
George seemed to have an inferiority complex about Eric Clapton that had to go way beyond his guitar playing abilities. I seem to recall hearing something about Charlotte Martin being the reason Pattie walked out on George during Get Back/Let It Be. Any truth to that?
There is truth to Pattie walking out due to Charlotte Martin, which is detailed in Pattie's book. Jackson editorializes plenty in his documentary but does nothing to explain George's leaving other than the meager film shown.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Peter Jackson did a good job with the “explainer” video at the beginning, but should have provided some context for what was going on in the Beatles’ lives and the people around them then.
Beyond George’s issues, I understand Yoko was recovering from a miscarriage around Jan. 1969, and that Linda was pregnant, which might have been a factor in her marriage to Paul later that year.
And a “wrap up” on what happened after LiB would have been good, mostly for casual fans. It kind of ends on a down note (no pun intended); everyone looks tired from rehearsals.
excellent Matt!! Your Psychologist perspective discussion that you said you wanted is about 50% of this one. I love it (having had so much Psych in my bkground). Especially your comment about John being "gullible". Wow, I get to review everything I've been researching from that perspective now! Again, as I said in our previous tet a tet (on the other podcast), it's very helpful to know some spiritual insights also, and this "gullible" one dovetails with one of my current theories/perspectives. Cheers! Thanks for your work, will listen to this interview again, and looking fwd to part 2. (Will be going to the IMAX tomorrow; as well as to my friend's house to watch the marathon sometime very soon. I don't own TV, and she has free Disney+. This interview gives some good tips about what to watch for.)
Enjoy the IMAX experience!
the premature passing of Brian Epstein marked the beginning of the end of the Beatles.
The acid and lsd probably didn't help Harrison with his self-confidence in his playing abilities. All the love for Clapton, but listen to Harrison's solos on the early Beatles album. He was shredding the Grestch and he was just a freaking kid! I don't think Harrison needed to compete with Beck or Clapton, he already made his bones well by that time.
Thanks for another insightful analysis of “Get Back.” I’ve seen several, and this is among the best (so far). I look forward to the next part.
The Beatles remain a “touchstone” in my life - something that brings me comfort - as I’ve listened to their music for most of my life. Perhaps it’s nostalgia for a safer and simpler time.
I also really enjoyed your takes on Allen Klein’s role in the break up, and on George and Ringo.
The documentary gave me a better insight into Ringo and his musicianship than ever before and I came away with more respect for him. But it really revealed different sides of everyone involved. And we got to know more about Mal Evans and Glyn Johns, interesting characters in their own right.
Thank you, Michelle. I think Beatle fans will be talking about this film for as long as there are Beatles fans! Thanks for the kind and insightful comment.
I ended up disliking George more than anyone after the doc. Paul and John were locked-in in so many levels that despite being working on "solo songs inside the Beatles", they were trying hard to bring a productive and positive mood to the sessions as professional partners. George in other hand was throwing a logjam straight from his troubled mind every time he slurred something into conversation. Paul and John are often seen just reciting strict instructions to each other to learn almost finished "solo" songs. Why George at this stage was trying so hard to insert himself into the creative process?
Agreed however I think he,and Paul for that matter got a lot better once they got to Apple.For me,John came across the best as he seemed pretty jovial and lighthearted whilst still trying to get the songs done
I'm guessing you've never heard George's multi-platinum solo album "All Things Must Pass" album, the bulk of which was made up of songs which the Beatles *could* have recorded but passed up so that they could give us "Maxwell's Silver Hammer", "You Know My Name" and " Dig A Pony " rather than "Beware of Darkness", "Isn't It A Pity" or "Wah-Wah". 😂
No wonder George was frustrated.
I've read that "All Things Must Pass" outsold ALL of the other solo Beatles albums *combined* up to the end of 1973 and I think that's true.
@@gerrycoogan6544 watch the Pop goes the 60s video on how ATMP(the only solo song he brought to the sessions) wasn’t "rejected" by the beatles.Its a narrative as strong as the get back sessions being miserable.Also Wah wah and isnt it a pity were written about his frustrations with the beatles so its unlikely he was EVER going to bring those to the sessions
I understand how you would feel that way, but it’s a bit deeper than that. I, too, had issues with George‘a behavior and ego, yet at the same time he brought some clarity to the band that they needed yet rejected. For example, when John and Paul were imagining a monumental live performance, George opined that the record company wouldn’t even pay for equipment, let alone renting the QE2. He also gave some quality musical feedback. I think if they’d given him more space, and if they’d pursed their own solo work *as well*, they might’ve lasted longer.
@@johnnysmith5770
Hi Johnny.
Yes, I'm aware that George himself decided that All Things Must Pass wasn't going to be suitable for the live show that they were planning and so he let it slide but that's only part of the story.
He wasn't particularly enthusiastic about the idea of playing a live Beatles gig at that point and at the same time he felt that he had a lot of songs that had potential as strong album tracks without being concerned about whether they could be reproduced live by a four-piece ensemble (or even five if we add Billy Preston).
History shows that he was right because he finally did issue an album which outsold ALL of the other solo Beatles albums combined until at least 1973. That's an astonishing endorsement of the quality of the material he was producing at that point.
He did bring Not Guilty to the White Album sessions and that song is just as much a dig at the other Beatles as any of those songs that you mention but the band still did upwards of ninety takes of it. For one reason or another, they couldn't get it together to George's satisfaction so it never got released until a superb version of it finally saw the light of day on George's self-titled album more than ten years later.
It seems pretty apparent to me that the Beatles weren't capable of giving George's songs the attention and enthusiasm which they deserved but as soon as George brought those songs to a different working environment, they were developed into a massive hit album.
John Lennon was especially guilty of not taking George seriously as a writer. He doesn't even play on most of George's tracks from 1967 onwards.
I can completely understand why George got increasingly dismayed and discouraged by the cold reception that his new compositions almost invariably received from John and Paul.
The way that The Beatles worked suited Lennon and McCartney but it just wasn't the way to bring George's songs to fruition (with a few obvious exception.)
32:35 “Ringo doesn’t talk much, but whenever he does…it’s always something very wise”. Ah yes, there’s of course the moment he said “I just farted. I thought you might like to know” 😂
I personally think you are over-analyzing Peter Jackson's choices. The leaving out of Yoko is perhaps more reasonable to question but as a film school graduate myself, I feel certain that Jackson found that a fair amount of what was left out apart from repetitious coverage was empty calories. When you are running cameras to try and capture unscripted moments you are hoping to capture interesting moments when something is going on. I guarantee that during that sixty moments there was a reasonable number of shots where nothing of interest was happening. So, when Jackson stuck in Allen Klein it is for historical reference and not to set up a narrative of Allen as the bad guy beyond what we already know of him as a bad guy. I don’t believe Jackson was subtly manipulating the narrative even where he leaves out the discussion with Yoko about what the performance should be. I’d bet the farm that it was in his original 14 hour cut and as he began to whittle it down, he eventually made the hard choice of taking it out. You seem to forget he started with a completed length cut that he knew he would have slim down.
It’s interesting on the speculation of George and Yoko’s singing, I’m convinced that George was the most hostile toward her. I’ve always found it strange that John seemed to put that off on Paul. I gather from Get Back that whatever the conflict was with John leading up to George quitting that it may have had to do with something to do with Yoko. Paul’s comment about “50 years from now they be saying they broke up cause Yoko set on an amp” seems to suggest that to me. It also reminds me of the episode in Emerick’s book that happened during the Abbey Road session when George blurted out “That Bitch” in front of John when he observed Yoko from the control room down in the studio taking one of his digestive biscuits. It always surprised me in light of that that George was around and working with John on the Imagine album.
1. Jackson wanted a "positive" documentary. 2. Yoko is an executive producer of sorts on this and I guarantee she had final say on edits. 3. For God's sake we've seen 8 hours of freaking 56 hours. And JUST LIKE the original movie was so negative thru editing... We've got this.. naive reviewers are making Yoko's legacy very happy
The only thing left to see is Ringo's drum solo and the trio guitar solo on "The End".
Good Point!
AND the ONLY Stereo Drums on ANY Beatles recording BTW🤯
Great discussion guys! And George and guitar playing is a fascinating subject. Abbey Road contains some of the finest lead guitar work ever put down on vinyl, in my humble opinion. Then by Gone Troppo in '82, there is virtually no guitar solos at all. But then watch the performance of While My Guitar Gently Weeps at the Prince's Trust concert in the Albert Hall in 1987. During the final solo section - originally all Clapton - George gradually dominates the situation, to the point where Eric backs down and stops playing. I'm not saying George is a better player than Eric, but it was wonderful to see George so engaged with playing lead guitar again. I'd love to see a video on George's attitude to his chosen instrument. ;)
I did a video called "George's Missing Guitar" that talks about this topic a bit but I think I need to do a part II.
Lot's of gorgeous George guitar on 'That's The Way It Goes' from that album and 'Life Itself' on Somewhere In England....and with the Wilburys too. Do people actually listen to his later albums? Not bad on 'Free As A Bird' too!
@@gettinhungrig8806 His playing on Free As A Bird and Real Love are excellent. Also Brainwashed has some great playing. Too bad he waited so long. My fave is his solo on Pure Smokey. I certainly listen to his later albums and enjoy them.
George's slide solo on Alvin Lee's 1993 Bluest Blues is stunningly beautiful
@@guitarstevehobbs Thanks, man! I had no idea this track existed. I love it.
Always good
22:00 I have a hunch that there’s at least some juicy stuff that was not included, which I totally get. One specific example was the day after George quit…Paul joked about Yoko sitting on an amp (presumably George’s) being the reason why they broke up. However, there’s no footage or other mention of that.
Unless that happened during the White Album sessions?
That was a great chat. Really enjoyed this one.
When I think of the Beatles and this latest project I always think of them in the three "E" description. The music was emotive in that it moves us, it was evocative as it conjured up the spirit of music in the 1960s, and it was ethereal as it seemed to have come from a world far away.
A lot of music can succeed in getting one or two of those Es, but the Beatles were able to capture all three of these elements.
Keep up the great work Matt! You have definately found your stride.
BTW, I can't let go of that word ethereal for those of you who first heard the Beatles on an AM radio back in the day will well remember what it sounded like. All of the British Invasion sound had that distinct otherworldly aspect to it.
Well stated, Neal! Thanks for the comment.
Ok so now , I have watched Get Back. 4 times! I am not bragging, I simply have been with the Beatles since the begginnig , I am 68. Anyway a couple of observations...if you notice in a couple of key scenes of discussions PAUL even after GEORGE has walked out seems to be way more concerned with JOHN'S involvent with the BEATLES future than anything else. In the " then there were two " segment , Paul is talking almost totally about John and Yoko and Yoko speaking for John...and how he will pick Yoko if it came down to it...also if you notice a couple of Paul comments when he says sarcastically, " there they go JOHN AND YOKO BACK INTO THE BAG"! And near the end he kind of says the same thing to John, when they are talking about possible future things after this project is done saying " yeah but you will be off in a bag somewhere" LENNON just nods and says yeah. The point is despite not visibly being disruptive in this doc in the studio..she was very much a disruptive force in the Beatles dynamic.not that she is bad or good its just natural that if she is there all the time it is got to be trying on them as a band. The trio of JOHN , PAUL & GEORGE had been together since late 1957 as kids. It is very illuminating to see their dynamic. You are right RINGO. Is kind of the glue ,the perfect foil as a drummer for them willing to just sit back listen and do the work..and it may have been his final affirmation that got them on the roof...remember he says " I want to go on the roof" in that discussion shown right before it. THANKS, enjoy the discussions.
Thanks for the comment! I agree that Yoko changed the band dynamic - that is irrefutable. I believe she changed it for the worse from the perception of the other three, which they have stated, and for the fan, who feel they got less music as a result.
I think you two would be perfect for a discussion on the AVEDON photo shoot
Who is Avedon how it occurred all the details. Every one had the posters
Very good discussion. In my opinion, based in what was showed in the documentary; while Pattie, Maureen and even Linda were coming and leaving the studio session, Yoko was always there, in the middle of fours band members that always worked only between them, with all that freedom to talk with each other what they want. Suddenly, the situation (since the "White Album" sessions) it's not the same. It's obvious that was so difficult to keep a musical partnership in this context. Moreover, different interest and aspiration of each member, were claerly revealing that would be impratictable even try to keep solo carrers along with the continuation of the band itself. The Peter Jackson's documentary, for me, has the merit to reveal this situation very clearly. Thus, the "Abbey Road" sessions were what it used to call a "swan song".
Well stated, Denis. Thanks for commenting.
About Anthony commenting on Paul composing Get Back on the bass - Paul says in his book, “ The Lyrics, Volume 2 “, that he never composed a song on bass
Perhaps, he already had the germ of the melody and while holding his bass guitar, started ad-libbing that melody - bass style ( not necessarily the bass part)
it’s got nice a virgo vs libra analysis feel
Excellent discussion. The most well thought out I've heard on the film so far. Anyone who knows The Beatles story will be aware that Yoko didn't break up the band. She certainly didn't help. Perhaps out of fairness to her that's why Jackson left the more contentious audio of her out of this. Because that would have just stirred up the old it was all Yoko's fault crap. Oh yeah I agree with Matt about The Band. Good musicians but no where near The Beatles as songwriters.
The parts where she is inserting herself into the band and the aftermath are available to hear so the reality is those things happened and Jackson omission doesn’t change that. More importantly, it really isn’t Jackson’s job to assess blame for the breakup and even things out. Or is it?
36:48 I think Ringo was referring to being hungover. At one point he asked Mal for drugs to pep himself up. I think Ringo was often quiet (and even sleeping) bc he was likely painfully hungover…in the earlier stages of his alcoholism
Hello, well this is great!...my favorite, and most respected Beatle show, podcast...whatever its called hosts, together about Get back documentary of documentary...FAR🙃UT !!..GREAT SHOW!! ..TNX and best wishes ❤ ✌ Rone84
Ps. I still didn't watch the movie, cause there's no Dis + in my native Slovenia..but, since Im a mad Beatlemaniac since '73, I can wait for a bit lo nger, stil looking Forward...😉
Thank you, Pela!
John Lennon mentioned that Paul as right about Klein later in a interview later on!
In the rooftop its fun to watch him listening to the shifts in the music.
Regarding Matt's query about Yoko's worst moments being omitted by Jackson, she is a producer on the film, am I right? She controls John's interest in Apple, and she'll never allow herself to be portrayed negatively. I'm sure Paul and Ringo have resigned themselves to this. When we do hear Yoko caterwauling on the mike, it's because she thinks it's good, even to this day! What also struck me was that she poised herself in every scene, often doing mundane things like opening mail, because she was hyper-aware of media and publicity. She was using every opportunity to promote herself and her image. She was always doing her art. I have nothing against her as a woman, but I think she exploited her connection to John then and always will.
Yes you are probably correct on this which makes Jackson’s disclaimer on the film and his comments of ‘no one telling him what to use’ in the film seem dishonest.
Was Mr Rutunno zooming from the set of George Lucas's "THX 1138" or McNulty's apartment on Season 2 of "The Wire"?
As I recall Anthony, Goldman's gas station attendant analogy was while talking about George's lack of lead guitar prowess in comparison to the beck/clapton/Hendrix etc I think he had gotten a lot better by let it be/abbey road. I think the best Beatles guitar solos were played by Paul. That had to bother George on some level
Ravi was George's Yoko. George lost a lot of drive in 1966 and stopped playing guitar. What we love most about George is what made him lose that drive. He was good, but he had a different type of ego than John and Paul.
Hi (this is Antony). You may be right, I can't remember exactly what Goldman said. No doubt George was on fire on the rooftop and the Abbey Road lead playing is sublime. Just my opinion but Paul was able to come up with those great lead guitar lines without the pressure of having to do that constantly for pretty much every song, as George did. For me, nobody tops Hendrix but never found Beck that much fun to listen to despite the undoubted prowess. Love Clapton's work in Cream
@@AntonyRotunno Great observation concerning Paul's solo's.
@@AntonyRotunno Goldman was a great writer
Regardless of how much of what he wrote was true. He held one's interest. It makes his book hard to put down. Jimi was definitely in a class by himself. A true innovater.
And sorry for the misspelling of your name. 😬