If you would like to support the channel, please consider using the *'Super Thanks'* button below the video. Any donation made is greatly appreciated and will be reinvested into the channel. I would also like to express my utmost gratitude to all those who have already donated. 🍀
The audio world has been the same since Nero played his lyre, as Rome went up in smoke. Basically, if it doesn't cost a packet, it ain't no good. Which we all know is utter snobbishness. I have a low to mid range setup. I am more than happy with what I have. As you said, we all have to sing for our supper, it's just some of us get a bigger helping than others. Surely it gets to a point where it doesn't matter how much you throw at equipment, cables etc there can't be a huge chasm between it. There are people reviewing on UA-cam that try and tell you it's ok to spend £1,000 on interconnect cables and posh speaker wire. I've heard very high end cables and they all seem way too bright. (Possibly me), but no, sorry I'm quite happy with my kit.... Just pop it on and enjoy. That's why your channel appeals. You've reviewed some second hand items that have cost under £30, if you like it even better. Sorry Mart, rant over. Grrr.
I've bought this DAC yesterday, for the first few minutes I was regretful, but by the time one hour of playing my CD player through this DAC I became more and more amazed at the sound this tiny little box was producing, I used a coaxial cable to connect to the SU-1 for the CD player, plus the optical connection for my turntable via a RCA to Digital converter into the SU-1 (via an optical cable) works amazingly well on both devices, the sound is so open and spacious, it has to be the bargain of the century !
I have an SU-1 and found that the power supply makes a difference. With an ifi ipower2 power supply widened the soundstage, instrument separation and detail. An across the board improvement really. But it cost me $60 extra. I would say that it sounds better than the internal wiim pro+ internal dac. The ifi power supply seemed to make a bigger improvement on the SU-1 than the pro+
I did a DAC shootout with a SU1, Gesheli Labs E3 with the upgraded AKM DAC and a JDS Labs Element 3. I used an optical splitter running out of an Oppo BD 93 running into an analog RCA splitter. I really couldn’t tell much difference between the three DACs. The element cost $130 and the E3 cost almost $400. I actually preferred the sound of the SU1 over the other two. I agree, it is more warmer. Also, SMSL makes a matching amplifier to the SU1 called the DA1. It’s actually a pretty decent speaker amp given its size and price point. I use them together in my bathroom set up connected to Wiim mini.
I did the same here, the SU-1 is quite an impressive little DAC. One thing, I did find on my last system, using a PS Audio Stelar Gaincell as a preamp for the SU-1, that it ran a bit warm, a little too warm in regards to sound. It was rather veiled, lacking detail and dynamics. I now use the ToneWinner AD-1PRE+ as a DAC/Preamp, having retired the PS Audio unit to the bedroom, and found the SU-1 very impressive to say the least. The detail and dynamics were outstanding for an $80 DAC, I was and am very impressed. I need to plug it back in and give it another listen. The gear you use is going to be the key to unlocking the potential of the little SU-1.
Thanks for the share! The video is helpful. I have had the SU-1 in mind for a while. I don't really need it, but the bang for the buck makes it hard to resist. I do also like the sound of the SU-1 over the D50III as well.
Always look forward to your videos. You never fail to make me laugh. You keep it entertaining. You definitely got the special effects down, and I can tell you’re having fun. I like hearing your listening experiences. Rather that than a bunch of measurements. I’m not that analytical. Decent gear at reasonable price. I actually put the SU-1 in my cart two weeks ago. Many reviews speak highly of it. I want to hear an AKM DAC chip. I’ve got Burr-Brown and an ESS Sabre internal in a Cambridge integrated amp.
SMSL makes one even smaller than that. The PO 100 AK. While I will play with on my desktop pc system it will ultimately makes its way into my car audio system due to its size and it was $66.
I picked up the su1 open box a few months ago & hooked it up to my Denon DCD 800ne cd player, as Martin says, differences are minimal, su1 gives a touch more bass definition, the Denon's burr brown DAC has slightly warmer midrange, either way, I thoroughly enjoy using both, if you are looking for your first upgrade to a pc output or are using a cheap cd/dvd/blu player as a transport, then this little DAC is a great place to start.
Hi and thanks. I have the SU1, I always preferred the sound of AKM DACs. DAC measurements are far above what a speaker and the human ear can perceive, so it is at all not the most important thing when making a choice.
All your reviews are so much fun to watch! Really helpful too to hear all your impressions and thoughts, it's amazing what budget gear can do, awesome for people just entering the hobby like me :) will you review the topping e30ii lite too? it seems to be the direct competitor to the smsl su1, very similar price!
My experience with the SU-1 has been a little adventure. While this DAC sounds quite good I had some problems with mine. My main use was going to be with my PC, the first one on USB picked up tics when clicking on albums on I-Tunes and when ever I clicked on anything with my mouse. I wanted the optical for my cd player so I sent it back. I really liked the sound of it and contacted SMSL and they said it should not be doing this so I repurchased another. This one also did the same thing so I decided to use the optical off my PC and power it with a 2 amp external wall wart. Sounded great , no tics but when I touched it, it made a sizzling sound through the speakers and the LED went out for a few seconds. I am guessing it was static electricity that I could not feel. Sent that one back and spent the extra cash for the Topping D10S USB DAC, It's only USB in but sounds great and operates with zero issues and is dead quiet on my pc. It also does not mind being touched even though you don't need to. lol I do really wish the SU-1 worked out I would have been happy with it due to the price being right and the extra inputs. Really like the station and have subscribed really enjoy your reviews on the Chi-Fi products.
Hi, i would love to hear your opinion of the soundquality of the SU 1 in comparsion with the dacs of the Yamaha as 501 & and PM 6007. I run the SU 1 on my Yamaha R S700 , but i'm thinking of a new amp with good onboard DAC... So: Any big advantages on the SU 1 in comparsion with your tested onboard dacs? Greetz from Germany
If you like a fuller sound, the SMSL PS100 is even better. There is a test here on you tube that has all three dacs: su1, ps100 and the fx audio. My favourite was the SMSL PS100. It sounded fuller bodied.
I have the Fiio K5 Pro which I think sounds great, especially for the price. I don’t think it’s available anymore but the K7 is. It might be worth reviewing.
How about the SMSL PS200. Has bluetooth, 4 op amps and the same dac chip ES9039Q2M as found in the Topping D50 III. The D50 III has two dac chips the PS200 has one but could be a good one for a fraction of the price.
I use the smsl su-1 with a power alimentation and it's better than the internal denon dcd600ne dac. I compared with flac file on the usb reader of the Denon
Its a bit perfect dac at a price that's hard to pass on. I've heard much more expensive dacs sound way worse, and it fits in your back pocket you could Velcro the thing to the back of your rack for a clean installation.
If I was only needing a USB DAC it would definitely be the ifi Zen DAC if I wanted the best bang for buck it would be the Aiyima T8 because it does so much for not a lot of money . If you want a high end DAC gesheli has DACs that compete with totl at a fraction of their price . The DAC that is in the Aiyima T9 Pro is actually for some reason is very good so if you also want a little speaker amp it's a very good option
It is hard to AB DACs as there is not much difference in the sound The measurements are below the threshold of hearing I have a few too many DACs including the SU-1 At some point you might end trying out a R2R DAC and you might find that to be superior Some do some don’t I do Like, comment and subscribe as you put out excellent content
An amazing DAC! On sale for £67 on Prime Day and it absolutely trounces the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, and the Audio GD 11.28, both of which I also own. 👍👍
@@Panji2000-q6b I think you may be confusing the DacMagic 100, with it's big brother the 200. Which last time I looked was close to £400. The 100 is currently £149 on Amazon, which oddly enough is the same price I paid for it from there in 2022. It's a decent enough Dac, just nowhere near as good as the SU-1.
@@bowiefan6652 Oh, sorry. really only £149? in Indonesia it's still around £390 so it sounds a bit strange if the SU-1 is better with a dacmagic 100 but it turns out the price is only £149. So the conclusion is that the SU-1 has better sound, right?
@@Panji2000-q6b Yes, it certainly does sound a lot better on my system than the Dacmagic, and the Audio GD, which cost me £260 when I bought it new a few years ago. That being said, system synergy is everything, so as with all audio gear there is no one-size-fits all, as evidenced by my sizeable collection of amps, and speakers gathering dust in the spare room! On the plus side though, I'm lucky in having a generous son who has given me permanent loan of a pair of Sony SS-NE5ES speakers which are simply amazing. The only downside being my much loved Wharfedale's have lost their magic forever. Such is life! 😃
@@bowiefan6652 yes I agree with you. I have my dad's vintage Marantz amp and a JBL 4412 and it produces amazing sound. So I always use a Bluetooth receiver to connect to my cellphone and I just found out that there is such a thing as a DAC. I'm a beginner in audio who has an audiophiles father, I'm grateful that I didn't spend any money to get started. btw thank you for your sharing, i appreciate it
Great review as always! I have this dac and I love it. I've just bought a secondhand Yamaha AS301 and I prefer the sound of the SMSL vs the dac inside the Yamaha. For me it's better. But, What "better" means? I've found that, at high levels and when playing busy music passages, it has more definition. I'm not talking about the sound signature (which I like a lot) to say it's better for me, the definition in music is what I think is better. Now it's even cheaper in Amazon than when I bought it from Aliexpress. Hope this helps.
The SU-1 wouldn't make that much difference as the WiiM Pro has a pretty decent DAC. The only way to know is to try it. Buy an SU-1 from Amazon, if there's no improvement, send it back.
I have a WiiM pro and tried an SMSL su1 from amazon, so i could return it if i didn't notice any difference. personally i noticed a difference, the smsl was clearly better to me but i also find the smsl a little bit sibilant at times which annoys my ears, so im still undecided on it 😅 im waiting till the end of my amazon return window to make a final decision!
[copypasta from a comment I left on another recent review ...] Does the SU-1 still have the firmware 'sleep' function that turns the USB receiver off after a few seconds of no signal? You'll notice it as a second or so of silence (muting) at the beginning of playback and then a couple of soft (but irritating) pops as it comes back to life (IOW, you'll get it if you're browsing your library take more than a few seconds between tracks). This appears to be default/baked-in behaviour for the receiver for dongle/mobile applications but it didn't seem to occur to SMSL that saving a watt or two is hardly an imperative in a desktop device. This is raised -about 25 pages in (IIRC)- on page 21 on a long thread/review on Audio Science Review - the fix is to download the XMOS driver for a different model (there isn't one specific to the SU-1) and then edit an XML config file to make an "Always On" (rather than "On when Needed") option visible in the 'XMOS USB DAC Driver Control Panel' that becomes available (unfortunately only for Windows, if you're using a Mac ...).
@@UTILITARIANTVUK Maybe fixed on more recent ones? Mine was bought June 23 and I had to install said XMOS driver and edit the XML/config. If you search for "audio science review su-1" the issue (and fix) is discussed from page 21 (and the tutorial for the driver install/edit can be found with "audio science review XMOS driver settings for no cutoff/delay").
![Технический обзор + апгрейд ЦАП SMSL SU-1 на AK4493S [DacMaster]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FFWI8_sK3Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
If you would like to support the channel, please consider using the *'Super Thanks'* button below the video. Any donation made is greatly appreciated and will be reinvested into the channel. I would also like to express my utmost gratitude to all those who have already donated. 🍀
The audio world has been the same since Nero played his lyre, as Rome went up in smoke. Basically, if it doesn't cost a packet, it ain't no good. Which we all know is utter snobbishness. I have a low to mid range setup. I am more than happy with what I have. As you said, we all have to sing for our supper, it's just some of us get a bigger helping than others. Surely it gets to a point where it doesn't matter how much you throw at equipment, cables etc there can't be a huge chasm between it. There are people reviewing on UA-cam that try and tell you it's ok to spend £1,000 on interconnect cables and posh speaker wire. I've heard very high end cables and they all seem way too bright. (Possibly me), but no, sorry I'm quite happy with my kit.... Just pop it on and enjoy. That's why your channel appeals. You've reviewed some second hand items that have cost under £30, if you like it even better. Sorry Mart, rant over. Grrr.
I've bought this DAC yesterday, for the first few minutes I was regretful, but by the time one hour of playing my CD player through this DAC I became more and more amazed at the sound this tiny little box was producing, I used a coaxial cable to connect to the SU-1 for the CD player, plus the optical connection for my turntable via a RCA to Digital converter into the SU-1 (via an optical cable) works amazingly well on both devices, the sound is so open and spacious, it has to be the bargain of the century !
I have an SU-1 and found that the power supply makes a difference. With an ifi ipower2 power supply widened the soundstage, instrument separation and detail. An across the board improvement really. But it cost me $60 extra. I would say that it sounds better than the internal wiim pro+ internal dac. The ifi power supply seemed to make a bigger improvement on the SU-1 than the pro+
what brand of converter cable are you using?
I have the SMSL SU-1 , amazing Dac for the price. Great review
Thumbs up for the stop motion 😄
SMSL is a clear winner to me!
The most under rated DAC around.
I did a DAC shootout with a SU1, Gesheli Labs E3 with the upgraded AKM DAC and a JDS Labs Element 3. I used an optical splitter running out of an Oppo BD 93 running into an analog RCA splitter. I really couldn’t tell much difference between the three DACs. The element cost $130 and the E3 cost almost $400. I actually preferred the sound of the SU1 over the other two. I agree, it is more warmer.
Also, SMSL makes a matching amplifier to the SU1 called the DA1. It’s actually a pretty decent speaker amp given its size and price point. I use them together in my bathroom set up connected to Wiim mini.
I did the same here, the SU-1 is quite an impressive little DAC. One thing, I did find on my last system, using a PS Audio Stelar Gaincell as a preamp for the SU-1, that it ran a bit warm, a little too warm in regards to sound. It was rather veiled, lacking detail and dynamics. I now use the ToneWinner AD-1PRE+ as a DAC/Preamp, having retired the PS Audio unit to the bedroom, and found the SU-1 very impressive to say the least. The detail and dynamics were outstanding for an $80 DAC, I was and am very impressed. I need to plug it back in and give it another listen. The gear you use is going to be the key to unlocking the potential of the little SU-1.
Thanks for the share! The video is helpful. I have had the SU-1 in mind for a while. I don't really need it, but the bang for the buck makes it hard to resist. I do also like the sound of the SU-1 over the D50III as well.
Always look forward to your videos. You never fail to make me laugh. You keep it entertaining. You definitely got the special effects down, and I can tell you’re having fun. I like hearing your listening experiences. Rather that than a bunch of measurements. I’m not that analytical. Decent gear at reasonable price. I actually put the SU-1 in my cart two weeks ago. Many reviews speak highly of it. I want to hear an AKM DAC chip. I’ve got Burr-Brown and an ESS Sabre internal in a Cambridge integrated amp.
Topping E30 II DAC HiFi 2 x AK4493S is another great cheap DAC. And 150 new or 100 used on Amazon. Great video again. Very entertaining 👍
@@eddiebaby22 agree, I have the Topping E30. It is a nice DAC
SMSL makes one even smaller than that. The PO 100 AK. While I will play with on my desktop pc system it will ultimately makes its way into my car audio system due to its size and it was $66.
I picked up the su1 open box a few months ago & hooked it up to my Denon DCD 800ne cd player, as Martin says, differences are minimal, su1 gives a touch more bass definition, the Denon's burr brown DAC has slightly warmer midrange, either way, I thoroughly enjoy using both, if you are looking for your first upgrade to a pc output or are using a cheap cd/dvd/blu player as a transport, then this little DAC is a great place to start.
Hi and thanks. I have the SU1, I always preferred the sound of AKM DACs. DAC measurements are far above what a speaker and the human ear can perceive, so it is at all not the most important thing when making a choice.
All your reviews are so much fun to watch! Really helpful too to hear all your impressions and thoughts, it's amazing what budget gear can do, awesome for people just entering the hobby like me :) will you review the topping e30ii lite too? it seems to be the direct competitor to the smsl su1, very similar price!
I like the SMSL SU-1 a lot. It seems to sound more "analog".
I agree 👍,i have the smsl su 1 and it is a great dac 👍
My experience with the SU-1 has been a little adventure. While this DAC sounds quite good I had some problems with mine. My main use was going to be with my PC, the first one on USB picked up tics when clicking on albums on I-Tunes and when ever I clicked on anything with my mouse. I wanted the optical for my cd player so I sent it back. I really liked the sound of it and contacted SMSL and they said it should not be doing this so I repurchased another. This one also did the same thing so I decided to use the optical off my PC and power it with a 2 amp external wall wart. Sounded great , no tics but when I touched it, it made a sizzling sound through the speakers and the LED went out for a few seconds. I am guessing it was static electricity that I could not feel. Sent that one back and spent the extra cash for the Topping D10S USB DAC, It's only USB in but sounds great and operates with zero issues and is dead quiet on my pc. It also does not mind being touched even though you don't need to. lol I do really wish the SU-1 worked out I would have been happy with it due to the price being right and the extra inputs. Really like the station and have subscribed really enjoy your reviews on the Chi-Fi products.
Hi, i would love to hear your opinion of the soundquality of the SU 1 in comparsion with the dacs of the Yamaha as 501 & and PM 6007.
I run the SU 1 on my Yamaha R S700 , but i'm thinking of a new amp with good onboard DAC...
So: Any big advantages on the SU 1 in comparsion with your tested onboard dacs?
Greetz from Germany
Both the 501 and 6007 had pretty decent DACs but I don't think they would sound any better (or worse) than the SU1.
Thanks. Congratulations from Brazil
I have both SU1 and C100 from SMSL. My Topping E30 Lite remains boxed up, as I prefer the SMSL sound, in the same way as you do in your review.
Regarding the price, the SMSL SU-1 is a great bargain for a DAC upgrade.
SMSL PS100 is £26.99 if you can find it, and it has an HDMI ARC digital input.
Onkyo C-7030 cd player, coax out to SU-1, works for me.
If you like a fuller sound, the SMSL PS100 is even better. There is a test here on you tube that has all three dacs: su1, ps100 and the fx audio. My favourite was the SMSL PS100. It sounded fuller bodied.
I have the Fiio K5 Pro which I think sounds great, especially for the price. I don’t think it’s available anymore but the K7 is. It might be worth reviewing.
How about the SMSL PS200. Has bluetooth, 4 op amps and the same dac chip ES9039Q2M as found in the Topping D50 III. The D50 III has two dac chips the PS200 has one but could be a good one for a fraction of the price.
Great review enjoyed it! I have the smsl c100 One step above this one adds a screen remote Bluetooth about $20 more, sounds good.
I use the smsl su-1 with a power alimentation and it's better than the internal denon dcd600ne dac. I compared with flac file on the usb reader of the Denon
@1:38 Looks exactly like my part of town ,see this every day but multiplied by 100 !
Its a bit perfect dac at a price that's hard to pass on.
I've heard much more expensive dacs sound way worse, and it fits in your back pocket you could Velcro the thing to the back of your rack for a clean installation.
Which one do you recommend SMSL SU-1 or SMSL Sanskrit MK3?
If I was only needing a USB DAC it would definitely be the ifi Zen DAC if I wanted the best bang for buck it would be the Aiyima T8 because it does so much for not a lot of money .
If you want a high end DAC gesheli has DACs that compete with totl at a fraction of their price .
The DAC that is in the Aiyima T9 Pro is actually for some reason is very good so if you also want a little speaker amp it's a very good option
It is hard to AB DACs as there is not much difference in the sound
The measurements are below the threshold of hearing
I have a few too many DACs including the SU-1
At some point you might end trying out a R2R DAC and you might find that to be superior
Some do some don’t
I do
Like, comment and subscribe as you put out excellent content
An amazing DAC! On sale for £67 on Prime Day and it absolutely trounces the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, and the Audio GD 11.28, both of which I also own. 👍👍
are you sure? DacMagic 100 is around £390
@@Panji2000-q6b I think you may be confusing the DacMagic 100, with it's big brother the 200. Which last time I looked was close to £400. The 100 is currently £149 on Amazon, which oddly enough is the same price I paid for it from there in 2022. It's a decent enough Dac, just nowhere near as good as the SU-1.
@@bowiefan6652 Oh, sorry. really only £149? in Indonesia it's still around £390 so it sounds a bit strange if the SU-1 is better with a dacmagic 100 but it turns out the price is only £149. So the conclusion is that the SU-1 has better sound, right?
@@Panji2000-q6b Yes, it certainly does sound a lot better on my system than the Dacmagic, and the Audio GD, which cost me £260 when I bought it new a few years ago. That being said, system synergy is everything, so as with all audio gear there is no one-size-fits all, as evidenced by my sizeable collection of amps, and speakers gathering dust in the spare room! On the plus side though, I'm lucky in having a generous son who has given me permanent loan of a pair of Sony SS-NE5ES speakers which are simply amazing. The only downside being my much loved Wharfedale's have lost their magic forever. Such is life! 😃
@@bowiefan6652 yes I agree with you. I have my dad's vintage Marantz amp and a JBL 4412 and it produces amazing sound. So I always use a Bluetooth receiver to connect to my cellphone and I just found out that there is such a thing as a DAC. I'm a beginner in audio who has an audiophiles father, I'm grateful that I didn't spend any money to get started. btw thank you for your sharing, i appreciate it
Hey bud, that's an honest review if I've ever seen one. 👍🏻
If you power it from the Ifi PowerX, the SU-1 will reach another level of sonic excellence.
there are MQA cd's to be had and paired with the SU1 sound great
No uppercut intro?
DACs are a solved problem. ASR has measured this one and it is basically perfect.
Great review as always! I have this dac and I love it. I've just bought a secondhand Yamaha AS301 and I prefer the sound of the SMSL vs the dac inside the Yamaha. For me it's better. But, What "better" means? I've found that, at high levels and when playing busy music passages, it has more definition. I'm not talking about the sound signature (which I like a lot) to say it's better for me, the definition in music is what I think is better. Now it's even cheaper in Amazon than when I bought it from Aliexpress. Hope this helps.
I understand this has only a single ak4458vn chip. SMSL should create a dual chip version of the SU-1 and call it the FU-2.
😄 They have SUX model so it wouldn't suprise me if they brought out an FU2!!
I own a WiiM pro and a CD changer with optical digital out. Does the SMSL SU-1 really make that much of a difference? I currently don't use a DAC.
The SU-1 wouldn't make that much difference as the WiiM Pro has a pretty decent DAC. The only way to know is to try it. Buy an SU-1 from Amazon, if there's no improvement, send it back.
I have a WiiM pro and tried an SMSL su1 from amazon, so i could return it if i didn't notice any difference. personally i noticed a difference, the smsl was clearly better to me but i also find the smsl a little bit sibilant at times which annoys my ears, so im still undecided on it 😅 im waiting till the end of my amazon return window to make a final decision!
[copypasta from a comment I left on another recent review ...]
Does the SU-1 still have the firmware 'sleep' function that turns the USB receiver off after a few seconds of no signal? You'll notice it as a second or so of silence (muting) at the beginning of playback and then a couple of soft (but irritating) pops as it comes back to life (IOW, you'll get it if you're browsing your library take more than a few seconds between tracks). This appears to be default/baked-in behaviour for the receiver for dongle/mobile applications but it didn't seem to occur to SMSL that saving a watt or two is hardly an imperative in a desktop device.
This is raised -about 25 pages in (IIRC)- on page 21 on a long thread/review on Audio Science Review - the fix is to download the XMOS driver for a different model (there isn't one specific to the SU-1) and then edit an XML config file to make an "Always On" (rather than "On when Needed") option visible in the 'XMOS USB DAC Driver Control Panel' that becomes available (unfortunately only for Windows, if you're using a Mac ...).
I didn't notice this on the unit I have?
@@UTILITARIANTVUK Maybe fixed on more recent ones? Mine was bought June 23 and I had to install said XMOS driver and edit the XML/config. If you search for "audio science review su-1" the issue (and fix) is discussed from page 21 (and the tutorial for the driver install/edit can be found with "audio science review XMOS driver settings for no cutoff/delay").
Spendor bc1 and a valve amplifier here I wouldn't switch it for nothing
Hello hello, too much hype on this Su1 or does it justify the thing around it.
I thought it sounded like a $80 dac. Thin and no soul.
Are we listening to the DAC or your speakers/room? How was this recorded?
Two empty baked bean tin cans and a length of string.
@@UTILITARIANTVUK Then it's no wonder that you can't tell the difference😁
There not a huge diffrence but i fell nr a, the smsl, theres something about the bass
I like fx03 🤣 listening on my s22 🥊🥊🥊
I go for A. Put on a red or white sticker or whatever....
I just sent this dac back. It sounds like a $80 dac. Cheap and thin.
You mean the SMSL SU1.... ????? In this test it sounds warmer, fuller than the others???
The fx audio sounds much brighter, thinner and more transparent.
Sure
what dacs did you prefer to it? any suggestions?