Great video. Very enlightening especially the ammo breakdown and analysis. It confirms what I've always believed about the hollow point Combloc ammo. For all practical purposes its nothing more than typical FMJ with a hole. Thanks much.
Thx for the detailed video. Hard jacket , plugged hollow point, and no cap on the back of the jacket. Doomed to be inconsistent, and fail more times than not.
While I appreciate your test and review of the ammo, you have to keep in mind that is just military surplus ammo, not expensive, good quality ammo. It wasn't designed for a hunting round, it was designed to keep other people from shooting back at you during a war.
It does however seem that all of the Russian soft point ammo has no trouble expanding. I know... well duh but if the jackets are the same then you would think the lead would just separate. Please do the Barnaul soft point 7.62x39 test.
Interesting, thanks. On the AK forums they were all excited about this ammo because the inside of the jacket was scored and would 'DEVASTATE' any target.
I was going through my stash of Tula/Herters 7.62x39 the other day and noticed I had three boxes of this mixed in with my FMJ. I thought "Cool, this might come in handy." and set it aside. I guess I'll throw it back in with the FMJ for plinking. Womp womp. By the way, last week I was using a blog post about sorting wheel weights to identify a bucket of scrap I aquired and realized that the author was you.
What were they thinking when they designed this round? Hard steel casing? It almost seems like they had heard of hollow point ammunition before and thought they'd give it a shot ;)
LuvBorderCollies That and no one is going to pay a premium price for a round made in Russia. The Russians aren't stupid, and their military actually had some pretty advanced ammunition. They COULD get good bullets if they wanted to, but doing so would probably drive their prices up to where they wouldn't be competitive against the recognized names in premium ammo like Hornady and Cor-Bon.
How about pulling one of these hollow points and shooting them backwards? Would be funny if the had better performance this way. Would also be nice to see the performance on steel of this round. Keep up the good work, love this channel.
LOL @ 6:10. Crying bullet. That end-over-end tumbling is going to give whatever living thing it hits quite a bit of grief, even if the bullet doesn't expand, but it's certainly not what the buyer is led to believe when they buy "hollowpoint". (Of course "hollowpoint match" is another matter, but anyone who buys those - e.g. Sierra Match Kings - should know what to expect there.)
(Yes, I know this is a very old video, but if I found it and watched it, so will other people.) I did some looking around on this topic, and found a very thoroughly researched article on 7.62x39mm military ammunition. It seems that this test has actually proven what I read in that article. The point (or lack thereof) in these hollow points is NOT to mushroom out, but to cause instability that will cause the bullet to tumble upon impact, and increase the wounding capacity at lower cost. The only thing missing from these bullets versus actual military surplus is a very mild steel core that helps penetrate barriers a bit better.
i know things change but this is why a Game Warden told me these cant be used for hunting. at the time they had to be a soft piont showing. so maybe these are made to penetrate body armor and then expand? i have had boxes that are russian saying they are for hunting but id say not so in the USA. keep on testing, you are doing great.
Chrome lining is a surface treatment to prevent corrosion, it doesn't make the bore any physically stronger. The steel used for steel cased and bi-metal jacketed ammunition is very mild, and a soft steel cannot mar a harder steel.
imbored742 It can certainly wear it more, can it not? And I was under the impression chrome lining was like a hard chrome, making the surface much much tougher. I know that steel cases are practically as soft as brass, but bimetal bullets... Eh
imbored742 You're wrong. Chrome lining not only makes the inside of a barrel corrosion and rust resistant, it also increases it's strength and overall durability. Chrome lined barrels *always* outlast steel barrels. Some stainless steel barrels claim to be 'as good as chrome-lined', but this has never been qualified with fact. Before you correct people, try to be right.
***** The life of a barrel is not solely a factor of the hardness of the surface material. As for nothing else being as good as chrome lined, many top tier manufacturers would beg to differ. CHF and salt bath nitriding both outperform chrome lining with regards to durability and barrel life. Hard chroming will not make a barrel made from poor quality steel outlast a good CHF barrel. Also, upvoting your own comments? Seriously?
Great video, as always! I have shot these "so called hollow points" through 2x6 wood planks and drywall - Result - great penetration but no expansion. The top 1/3 of the bullets were marred and gone, but the bottom 2/3 were intact with the steel jackets in place. Not a great home defense round!
Would the harder steel jacket maybe mean it's better at penetrating barriers or possibly some types of armor? I know uhmwpe doesnt like steel tipped ammo
I know I am late to the party here. (2+ years). But the score marks could be there to allow the sheet metal to form the conical shape? I thought the "hollow point" on rifle rounds were for accuracy not expansion. Where as most hunting rounds are soft point or semi-jacketed for maximum expansion in game animals. No? Could you have done a hardness test on the jacket? thx for your vids mj
Really appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos. But please, tell me that you are the guy that re-built a Saturn SL2 engine on another channel, I swear it was you. Am I trippin'?
hey can you measure the hardness of the jackets? it woud be usefull for determining how much wear can cause to the rifling of the bore with barious brands of steel and brass jackets
When you make a steel jacket, you are suppose to anneal it so that it is soft. Hard steel, even if it is mild steel, will wear out your barrel. I am glad I did not pick up any of this stuff when I saw it.
A thought. When that core veers off off into never-never land, you could have a situation where someone/something is struck that wasn't intended to be hit. The way that core zoomed off the line of sight could be a safety hazard. The moral of the story is the ammo is fine for battlefield or plinking but use quality bullets for home defense.
I know alot of people that wouldnt even let steel jacket ammo near their guns, and I kind of agree with them! Hard steel running down your rifling like that is sure to wear it out much faster than soft copper. Even steel cases running in and out of chambers can cause rapid wear..... Nice upload as usual. Cheers.
My guess is a big factor in the poor performance is due to the exposed lead base. A properly jacketed base would have helped the pressures in the hollow tip to build up helping expansion. That being said, with the jacket being as tough as it is, I doubt it would have expanded more more if at all.
That lead squirting out the back of the bullet and filling up with ballistics gel was the craziest thing i have ever seen with ammo testing period. That was just amazing but a fail for the ammo.
i don't know how true it is, but a long time ago i was told something about wolf and barnaul 7.62x39 hp. a shop owner who dealt lots of it told me it doesn't expand because it isn't really designed to expand. he said the hollow point on those rounds only exists for legal reasons. he gave two reasons. first, because you aren't allowed to hunt with fmj in most (if not all) places. it's widely known that the hp used in these rounds doesn't expand for practical purposes... but for legal purposes, the hollow point is an "expanding design" bullet and therefore legal for hunting. by offering hp bullets they were able to tap into the hunting market. second, there were credible fears at the time that the anti gunners were going to ban the import of fmj rounds. this would have effectively banned all military surplus and paramilitary rounds. the importers requested the hp and sp rounds as a preemptive measure to get around such a ban.
From what I understand is that old milsurp 7.62x39 is that it is a hallow point with a penetrator inside. I could be wrong but that is what I understand it to be. Plus that little open space on the nose of the bullet is looks like it makes a 30cal bullet tumble a lot. I would say it works well.
BEWARE THIS AMMO. I have experienced several squibs (no gunpowder) and this can be potentially FATAL. If you do not feel a full power shot, STOP and check your bore for possible obstruction before continuing. Better yet just avoid this ammo. I would never trust it for self defense
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, very cheaply made, low cost ammo. As you noted the TulAmmo headstamp, its made by Tula and packaged by Herters. Herters steel case 9mm FMJ is the Tula also. I think its just cheap ammo and poor design. That steel jacket is too tough with such light scoring and being hollow base for the lead to eject from just doesn't work. Maybe into something other than gel but not holding my breath. Also, further proof for cause im not sending steel jacketed bullets down any of my nicer guns.
I agree with your opinion: jacket is much too hard and what scoring that was attempted was a total waste of time and effort. I would love to see you score 5-10 rounds with varying depths at whatever granularity you can achieve with your equipment (but no more than 10.) I think this would demonstrate what it would take for someone to make these rounds actually expand; if it is possible at all. As you pointed out, the number of score marks would also be interesting to vary as well.
Jeff Rielley @ dorrintheengineer 5000 rounds of Zombie Max = $5,000.00, and 5000 rounds of herters/tula = $1,000.00...............the difference is $4,000.00 of saving.....and how much does a barrel cost smarty?
again for all you steel ammo haters: 5000 rounds will costs you $1,000 and for brass, you would run you about $2500 (PMC)......you're saving $1,500.00 over 5000 rounds..........with $1,500.00, you could buy two AKs or one Arsenal with some ammos too.............just do the math!
Cheap ammo is cheap ammo. If you hunt. then buy better ammo. If you plink, then buy this stuff. Not rocket science people.
5 років тому
I bought Herter's 7.62x54R from a Gander Mountain once. Checked the bottom of the shell, it said TULA. Will never buy herter's. You're paying more for the same product.
Never been impressed by any 30 caliber hollow point; especially in 7.62X39's. I only buy FMJ or SP for this caliber. I have had good experiences with the SP's; both in 125gr and 154gr. Shot a buck last year with a 154gr SP, he took one step and fell over dead, nasty cavity too.
I really like the new tests you are doing.
very scientific equipment, way more you'd expect
Great video. Very enlightening especially the ammo breakdown and analysis. It confirms what I've always believed about the hollow point Combloc ammo. For all practical purposes its nothing more than typical FMJ with a hole. Thanks much.
I'd say our assumptions are spot on ... love the videos, keep up the great work!
Even with out expanding that tumble and downward path would be devastating.
I had a good laugh at the comical failure of the round and your reaction 😂 thanks
Great video series. Very interesting.
As always, very good review and well explained!
Outstanding work. You just got another subscription. Thanks.
Thx for the detailed video. Hard jacket , plugged hollow point, and no cap on the back of the jacket. Doomed to be inconsistent, and fail more times than not.
While I appreciate your test and review of the ammo, you have to keep in mind that is just military surplus ammo, not expensive, good quality ammo. It wasn't designed for a hunting round, it was designed to keep other people from shooting back at you during a war.
Very interesting and informative.
It does however seem that all of the Russian soft point ammo has no trouble expanding.
I know... well duh but if the jackets are the same then you would think the lead would just separate.
Please do the Barnaul soft point 7.62x39 test.
Please do, Great Video, thanks .
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Even though it didn't perform as expected, that bullet still caused some considerable damage
Great Video! Thank you for taking the time!
Fantastic video! Thanks for the effort!
May I suggest drilling some of the lead out of the tip and re-testing?
Interesting, thanks. On the AK forums they were all excited about this ammo because the inside of the jacket was scored and would 'DEVASTATE' any target.
Exceptional review!!!!!
I was going through my stash of Tula/Herters 7.62x39 the other day and noticed I had three boxes of this mixed in with my FMJ. I thought "Cool, this might come in handy." and set it aside. I guess I'll throw it back in with the FMJ for plinking. Womp womp. By the way, last week I was using a blog post about sorting wheel weights to identify a bucket of scrap I aquired and realized that the author was you.
excellent work with your tests keep it going cheers
What were they thinking when they designed this round?
Hard steel casing?
It almost seems like they had heard of hollow point ammunition before and thought they'd give it a shot ;)
They were thinking..."Americans love cheap and bellyache if they have to pay more for better stuff." I think that nails it. :-) LOL
Well said!
:D
LuvBorderCollies That and no one is going to pay a premium price for a round made in Russia.
The Russians aren't stupid, and their military actually had some pretty advanced ammunition. They COULD get good bullets if they wanted to, but doing so would probably drive their prices up to where they wouldn't be competitive against the recognized names in premium ammo like Hornady and Cor-Bon.
Exactly.. and this is actually dangerous ammo, they have SQUIBs
How about pulling one of these hollow points and shooting them backwards? Would be funny if the had better performance this way. Would also be nice to see the performance on steel of this round. Keep up the good work, love this channel.
LOL @ 6:10. Crying bullet. That end-over-end tumbling is going to give whatever living thing it hits quite a bit of grief, even if the bullet doesn't expand, but it's certainly not what the buyer is led to believe when they buy "hollowpoint". (Of course "hollowpoint match" is another matter, but anyone who buys those - e.g. Sierra Match Kings - should know what to expect there.)
Great video, keep up the good work.
I love this channel.
(Yes, I know this is a very old video, but if I found it and watched it, so will other people.) I did some looking around on this topic, and found a very thoroughly researched article on 7.62x39mm military ammunition. It seems that this test has actually proven what I read in that article. The point (or lack thereof) in these hollow points is NOT to mushroom out, but to cause instability that will cause the bullet to tumble upon impact, and increase the wounding capacity at lower cost. The only thing missing from these bullets versus actual military surplus is a very mild steel core that helps penetrate barriers a bit better.
Excellent analysis. I subbed.
are you going to make test with your own made lead 7.62x39 bullet?
Love your videos
i know things change but this is why a Game Warden told me these cant be used for hunting. at the time they had to be a soft piont showing. so maybe these are made to penetrate body armor and then expand? i have had boxes that are russian saying they are for hunting but id say not so in the USA.
keep on testing, you are doing great.
It amazes me the barrel can handle that for any length of time at all without a chrome lining.
Chrome lining is a surface treatment to prevent corrosion, it doesn't make the bore any physically stronger. The steel used for steel cased and bi-metal jacketed ammunition is very mild, and a soft steel cannot mar a harder steel.
imbored742 It can certainly wear it more, can it not? And I was under the impression chrome lining was like a hard chrome, making the surface much much tougher. I know that steel cases are practically as soft as brass, but bimetal bullets... Eh
Tombs Clawtooth A surface treatment can only ever be as strong as the metal underneath it. Hard chroming is hard, but it's also thin.
imbored742 You're wrong. Chrome lining not only makes the inside of a barrel corrosion and rust resistant, it also increases it's strength and overall durability. Chrome lined barrels *always* outlast steel barrels. Some stainless steel barrels claim to be 'as good as chrome-lined', but this has never been qualified with fact.
Before you correct people, try to be right.
***** The life of a barrel is not solely a factor of the hardness of the surface material. As for nothing else being as good as chrome lined, many top tier manufacturers would beg to differ. CHF and salt bath nitriding both outperform chrome lining with regards to durability and barrel life. Hard chroming will not make a barrel made from poor quality steel outlast a good CHF barrel.
Also, upvoting your own comments? Seriously?
Love the work! Ide love a chart of all your reviews side by side
Woa, looks like MJ got a new toy for the bench... Nice.
great video, very informative
wow what a presentation! !!! !
The thought that counts and the sad little bullet LOL
Great video, as always! I have shot these "so called hollow points" through 2x6 wood planks and drywall - Result - great penetration but no expansion. The top 1/3 of the bullets were marred and gone, but the bottom 2/3 were intact with the steel jackets in place. Not a great home defense round!
What machine do you use to cut in half that bullet?
Good Stuff As Always man.
At what distance are you shooting from.
Would the harder steel jacket maybe mean it's better at penetrating barriers or possibly some types of armor? I know uhmwpe doesnt like steel tipped ammo
I know I am late to the party here. (2+ years). But the score marks could be there to allow the sheet metal to form the conical shape?
I thought the "hollow point" on rifle rounds were for accuracy not expansion. Where as most hunting rounds are soft point or semi-jacketed for maximum expansion in game animals. No?
Could you have done a hardness test on the jacket?
thx for your vids
mj
What would it do against hardened targets?
Isn't that how the 556 was supposed to work originally?
Awesome. Love it.
Herters 762x39 hollow point ,if used for head shots on hogs .will it perform better?
Really appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos. But please, tell me that you are the guy that re-built a Saturn SL2 engine on another channel, I swear it was you. Am I trippin'?
***** No comment... :)
link to other video...
hey can you measure the hardness of the jackets? it woud be usefull for determining how much wear can cause to the rifling of the bore with barious brands of steel and brass jackets
Different expansion coefficents?
I'd say this steel jacketed serrated bullets are designed to expand well on steel plate targets
Does such a hard thick jacket affect it's armor penetration ability?
When you make a steel jacket, you are suppose to anneal it so that it is soft. Hard steel, even if it is mild steel, will wear out your barrel. I am glad I did not pick up any of this stuff when I saw it.
A thought. When that core veers off off into never-never land, you could have a situation where someone/something is struck that wasn't intended to be hit. The way that core zoomed off the line of sight could be a safety hazard. The moral of the story is the ammo is fine for battlefield or plinking but use quality bullets for home defense.
can you tell me the dimension of a 20 round box? I'm trying to make some repack box. Thanks
They don't sell Herters around me who makes it? I'm pretty sure it has Tula import on the box but is it uly, tula, or maybe barnaul?
that "lead" looks more like a mild steel
are you sure it's lead?
I know alot of people that wouldnt even let steel jacket ammo near their guns, and I kind of agree with them! Hard steel running down your rifling like that is sure to wear it out much faster than soft copper. Even steel cases running in and out of chambers can cause rapid wear..... Nice upload as usual. Cheers.
The bullet is opened on the end thats because its lead pushed out. Hollowpoints usually are closed
Wicked video bro!! Herters should just stick with FMJ's. I bet those would be good LOL.
My guess is a big factor in the poor performance is due to the exposed lead base. A properly jacketed base would have helped the pressures in the hollow tip to build up helping expansion. That being said, with the jacket being as tough as it is, I doubt it would have expanded more more if at all.
What's the jacket like on 8M3?
Could you test the same stuff in. 223? If need be I can send you a box.
GREAT TEST, thank you, keep them coming, New Subscriber.
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That lead squirting out the back of the bullet and filling up with ballistics gel was the craziest thing i have ever seen with ammo testing period. That was just amazing but a fail for the ammo.
i think this round would be ok if the jacket was to have vertical lines ground in on the outside
I love your inquisitiveness. Great video! :-)
i don't know how true it is, but a long time ago i was told something about wolf and barnaul 7.62x39 hp. a shop owner who dealt lots of it told me it doesn't expand because it isn't really designed to expand. he said the hollow point on those rounds only exists for legal reasons.
he gave two reasons. first, because you aren't allowed to hunt with fmj in most (if not all) places. it's widely known that the hp used in these rounds doesn't expand for practical purposes... but for legal purposes, the hollow point is an "expanding design" bullet and therefore legal for hunting. by offering hp bullets they were able to tap into the hunting market.
second, there were credible fears at the time that the anti gunners were going to ban the import of fmj rounds. this would have effectively banned all military surplus and paramilitary rounds. the importers requested the hp and sp rounds as a preemptive measure to get around such a ban.
From what I understand is that old milsurp 7.62x39 is that it is a hallow point with a penetrator inside. I could be wrong but that is what I understand it to be.
Plus that little open space on the nose of the bullet is looks like it makes a 30cal bullet tumble a lot. I would say it works well.
Would work well in a Ferguson, MO situation...
BEWARE THIS AMMO. I have experienced several squibs (no gunpowder) and this can be potentially FATAL. If you do not feel a full power shot, STOP and check your bore for possible obstruction before continuing. Better yet just avoid this ammo. I would never trust it for self defense
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, very cheaply made, low cost ammo. As you noted the TulAmmo headstamp, its made by Tula and packaged by Herters. Herters steel case 9mm FMJ is the Tula also. I think its just cheap ammo and poor design. That steel jacket is too tough with such light scoring and being hollow base for the lead to eject from just doesn't work. Maybe into something other than gel but not holding my breath. Also, further proof for cause im not sending steel jacketed bullets down any of my nicer guns.
Maybe it could be used as armor piercing instead.
Sounds like a good round to shoot at 50cm wooden block. It might be penetrate it.
it's pretty nice that you present the facts. However, the zombie max is about 5-6 times more expensive, that's fact as well..............so
I agree with your opinion: jacket is much too hard and what scoring that was attempted was a total waste of time and effort. I would love to see you score 5-10 rounds with varying depths at whatever granularity you can achieve with your equipment (but no more than 10.) I think this would demonstrate what it would take for someone to make these rounds actually expand; if it is possible at all. As you pointed out, the number of score marks would also be interesting to vary as well.
i think this stuff is just meant for range plinking ammo
Good plinking ammo and that's about it.
Very tough jacket and very soft lead, something's got to give, and in this case it's going to be the lead.
Would the bullet expand if it went through a layer of soft armor.
I think they got their harnesses backwards lol. Aofter jacket. Harder BONDED cores. HardER not alloyed to near copper harness.
Very interesting. I never had much faith in the Russian ammo preforming as it should.
Those hollow points aren't made to expand the hollow point is a by product of making a target bullet.
Jeff Rielley @ dorrintheengineer 5000 rounds of Zombie Max = $5,000.00, and 5000 rounds of herters/tula = $1,000.00...............the difference is $4,000.00 of saving.....and how much does a barrel cost smarty?
If it's an ak rifling is a option.
Well it looks like you get what you pay for, cheap ammo is probably OK for just blasting away, save the good stuff for when it counts.
again for all you steel ammo haters: 5000 rounds will costs you $1,000 and for brass, you would run you about $2500 (PMC)......you're saving $1,500.00 over 5000 rounds..........with $1,500.00, you could buy two AKs or one Arsenal with some ammos too.............just do the math!
Maybe this ammo has other uses and can penetrate steel plates.
Cheap ammo is cheap ammo. If you hunt. then buy better ammo. If you plink, then buy this stuff. Not rocket science people.
I bought Herter's 7.62x54R from a Gander Mountain once. Checked the bottom of the shell, it said TULA.
Will never buy herter's. You're paying more for the same product.
Tells me that ammo is junk
Never been impressed by any 30 caliber hollow point; especially in 7.62X39's. I only buy FMJ or SP for this caliber. I have had good experiences with the SP's; both in 125gr and 154gr. Shot a buck last year with a 154gr SP, he took one step and fell over dead, nasty cavity too.
Hahaha what a turd. Great video.
I shot a frozen turkey with wolf 223 hp n the same thing happened but with turkey inside
Pooped out all it lead lmao
Guy you need to test other calibers.
Epic fail
Russians... tough on the outside, soft on the inside.
Still dead.....
Hello... it's. Good. To. Just. See. The. Herters. Name..... my. Dad's. Been. Dead. 20. Plus. Years... he. Was. Very. Aware. Of. Herters. Products. And. In. My. Life. I. Have. Been. Very. Lucky. To. Have. The. Experiences. Of. Hunting.... with. Herters. Duck. Decoys. Owning. And. Using. A. Very. Durable. Herters. Duck. Boat....or. Marsh. Boat... and. I. Have. A. Very. Beautiful.. herters. Gunstock... on. My. M99. 250l3000.... makes. The. Gold. Trigger. Stand. Out. Nicely. And. I.m. sure. This. Ammo. Is. To. The. Standards. Of. The. Other... Herters. Products. I. Would. Like. To. Try. The. Herters. Goose. DE oys. Someday. They. Looked. Good. In. The. Brochure..thankyou. and. have. A. Nice. Day...