Quick tip, when threading a 5/8 24 TPI, the correct diameter is actually .620". If you do it to .625 the top of the treads will be too sharp and cause them to stick into whatever you put on it
Great video. It never ceases to amaze me how many "experts" are commenting on UA-cam videos. If you don't do it their way then it's not a good way. I've been cutting threads in barrels for four years or so and I learned to set it up as you did by a gunsmith who has been running a shop for almost 30 years. Thanks for taking the time to put all this work on video.
+Mike Dittman No problem, thanks for the comments! There are a few other ways I do these depending on the application, but this is just a basic demonstration.
Look at Joe Pieczinski (Advanced Innovations, Austin Texas)videos and especially his method of cutting threads AWAY from the headstock with the lathe tool upside down and the lathe in reverse. That's how to do it properly. The man is a brilliant engineer/toolmaker and designer. its a joy to watch his videos and to learn new things AND how to do it safely.
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@@samrodian919 MD said it all, they learned to do this from a gunsmith. A machinist don't call himself a gunsmith for a damn good reason, he ain't. Every gunsmith I've ever met said they were machinists too.
As a tool and die maker I would like to point out some things you are doing that are not safe. 1. Never wear gloves while running a lathe. If the gloves get caught, you will get hurt. 2. Do not grab the chips with your fingers, it is a good way to loose a finger. 3. Never stop a lathe chuck with your hand, especially when wearing gloves. The machine is not forgiving. If your hand gets caught, you are in a whole world of hurt. 5. Never reach over the chuck to do you filing. Always work from the front of the chuck. Once again if your arm gets caught, you will be in a world of hurt. Just for clarity, it is not called a back cut, it is called an under cut. I thought I would let you know these things, because I never want anyone to get hurt.
+T Hall Don't think rubber gloves are going to "pull you in". If you are so concerned, why not make a video on the absolute safest way to do this, then we can critique your methods sir.
+jason fazenbaker I am concerned that perhaps you are of the ilk that has to put your hand in the fire to see if it really will burn you. Stay as far from danger as possible and you greatly increase you chances of remaining whole for life. It only has to go wrong once.
Sure it won't, but it will jerk your hand VERY quickly into a fast moving part wedged against a sharp tool........I know I know, you are stronger than a latex glove, but when one is not expecting it your hand will move too fast in the wrong direction.
knew an old fella that was into precision shooting etc. Fist time i met him, he had his 6m BR on range. had about a 2inch x about 20 inch long barrel. Asked him why so short, he said a wasp built a nest in the end, so he cut it off with a hacksaw and re-crowned it with a countersink metal bit. then i noticed the cheeky glint in his eye. Im not a machinist, but even i see some backshed practices going on here. was kinda waiting for that countersink bit to come out.
Considering all the negative stuff on here, i actually like the entire video. I get what some are saying but this was good! Thanks for posting and taking the time to make a good video.
That's some pretty rough looking threads! Might want to take a lot of advice from comments below and have a red seal machinist teach you a few tricks of the trade to get better and faster results as well as moving over to carbide helps with cleaner cuts in smaller places especially with threading
Joe MacPherson didn't look like the cutter was square to the work either. You will definitely have a wonky thread if your 30 deg cutter is 5 degs off in the tool holder...
Me too! I did this video several years ago on the fly with a junk barrel after just getting my first worn out lathe set up. Had a few issues but #1 was a poor (or dull) cutting tool. Before this I always did this work in other gunsmith shops with much nicer lathes and tooling. I've since upgraded all my equipment and always cut nice sharp threads and much smaller back cuts (if needed). Never thought this video would get that much attention, but it did. I should really make an updated video.
Please upload your videos and show us how you do it the proper way.. he is a amatuer machinist and i dont recall him saying anything to imply his way is the right way.. its his way.. and i thank him for the content.. now im gonna go make something my way.. why dont you all just go comment on more videos about people doing it wrong... while we actually do it
Dude, you scare me to death. Your flagrant disregard for safety will eventually maim you. 1. lose the gloves. 2. Buy a compressor and blow the chips off with a controllable air nozzle. 3. Keep your hands off the spinning parts. Period. 4. Respect the power you are playing with; a lathe that smoothly cuts through metal will not even slow down when it sucks you into it. No shit, seriously! If you've not been trained in the safe methods of machine work spend the money and take the safety courses. It only has to go wrong once.
If I had a dime for every time I read "As a ___________ of [so many years] . . ." as some sort of authoritative lead to a laundry list of UA-cam comments, I could retire tomorrow. It's pathetic and unnecessary. What many of you should instead be saying to the owner of this UA-cam channel is something along these lines: "As an individual whose lack of self-control is equaled only by my felt need to correct everyone: [insert your uninvited critiques]." After all, it's all about being accurate and correct, right?
Kinda reminds me of a quote by Will Rogers" There are three kinds of men, one that learns by reading, ones that learn by observation, and others who must pee on the electric fence for themselves" If you have been advised several time by tradesmen with many years of experience, what could you know about safety that they don't? Why not take their advice to live a long and healthy life?
Thank you sir for our thorough answer. I have several barrels to be machined for new Sig Sauer silencers I just purchased last year (but I have plenty of time to get them done with the months wait on getting the tax stamp from the AFT) and want to make sure they are threaded correctly first time around. Please correct me where I may be wrong in my understanding of your explanation. You said you used a "tight fitting rod" on both ends to indicate in the barrel. Essentially that takes the place of using a center on both ends (if I am comprehending correctly). A "tight fitting rod," depending on how tight of a fit there is between the lands and rod, I would think is not as "tight" as using centers on both ends, since there could be tenths error (probably of little or no consequence really) in using the setup indicating off the rods, whereas using the centers would eliminate any indicating errors and place the accuracy completely on the lathe's inherent accuracy. But either way, using the rod indicating method or putting the barrel between centers, it would seem to me both would exhibit the same end result when dealing with a "bent" or "curved" barrel. Then again, thinking about it in more detail, maybe using a "rod" that is really "tight fitting" (no play at all) inside the end of the barrel bore even two inches in depth down the bore, just might be more accurate on a "bent" barrel because when the bullet leaves the last engagement of the rifling it is probably on a trajectory straight out of the last quarter inch or so of the barrel, thus making it more in line with a suppressor screwed onto the end of the barrel using that rod indicating method, whereas indicating between centers would produce threads somewhat skewed, depending on the total "bend" or "curvature" of the barrel from one end to the other. The more I think about it, the more it seems like you would not even have to consider indicating both ends unless you want to find out how "bent" the barrel may be, which really doesn't matter when threading the muzzle end because the bullet will be going straight from the last few fractions of an inch it is last engaged in prior to free flight through the suppressor. So, the way you have shown in the video now seems to be the more accurate way to do it. And, probably making the rod of the "tightest" fit possible into the bore, with the exposed diameter of the rod being much larger than the diameter of the rod inside the barrel, would make any indicating off the larger diameter of the rod much more pronounced on the readout (like being magnified) than indicating on a smaller diameter like say a .22 or .17 caliber. Just thinking and checking. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
+Dennis Varnau The more a guy thinks about it the more he second guesses everything! LOL.... The problem with relying on the lathes accuracy is that unless you have a brand new machine, or a newly rebuilt one (as I do) and you spend hours lining everything up, you can't rely on the lathe to be where you want it every time. That is the whole reason for indicating a barrel. If A lathe has been around for a while they usually need to have their tail stock aligned ether by a radial gauge, or a test bar which is usually 18-24" long. The problem with that to me is that it might line up next to the head stock with a radial micrometer, or at 18-24" with a test bar, but will it line up at 26+ inches if you are doing a longer barrel? How about a 12" barrel? I know my lathe would because everything has just been ground, but a 30-40 year old lathe that's been in use? Who knows? On top of that if you run between centers without first cutting a new bearing surface you are asking for run-out! Running on factory cut centers is not a reliable method. I know you can cut the face of ether end of the barrel, then run your centers on that, but some guys will argue that with the tiny amount of bearing surface in this case, you run the risk of having one side of the lands softer/harder than the other and when you tighten your barrel down, it will deviate to one side. When you cut centers with a piloted reamer, you will get much more (relatively not that much) error vs the tight rod, due to the clearance the bushing needs on the pilot. My rods only move on one axis, the X axis in and out of the bore. There is just enough clearance to get the rod in the bore and no more. Here were are talking about a few ten thousands. 0.0002-0.0004". Now the trick then becomes how close can I zero that out in my lathe with my indicators. When I was installing a lot of muzzle breaks for another gunsmith, most of the time, I would leave the action on, and run the barrel through the headstock and indicate the last 3-4"" of the barrel. You indicate close to the muzzle, then out on the end of the rod, which was usually about 3" out past the muzzle. I figure at that point, if I could zero everything out here, There would be a 6" straight path for the bullet to travel and would exit the muzzle at a concentric point to the bore of the muzzle. Most times the barrel ended up pretty straight in the lathe, but I also did a lot of Remington factory barrels, and they are horrible for being both "bent" and having horrible OD concentricity. The same gunsmith also would have me cut piloted centers, and turn the shank of the barrel so it has a concentric OD relative to the new center. He would then call these barrels "blue printed", which I guess technically is true, but using pins will get you closer to zero run-out. Don't get me wrong, these were all great shooting rifles, but like I mentioned before, my most accurate rifle, which has shot in the 0.2" range 5 shot group at 100 yards on several occasions, and consistently shoots in the 0.4-0.6 MOA range, is a 7mm Mag with a palma contour barrel which was done by chucking up in the three jaw, and out on the steady as I mentioned before! It's a hunting rifle too! Anyways, personally I would be a little scared to thread for a silencer by running between centers. Not because I would be afraid that the bullet would hit it, but I would want to make sure everything was dead concentric if I'm shelling out the cash for a silencer. It sticks out past the muzzle quite a bit further than a muzzle break which are usually no more the 2-3" out. There are better ways to do it in my opinion.
+Precision Machine Shed Thanks again. I'm going to have my brother read over these paragraphs first, before I give him my barrels to machine. He's been doing machining since high school (then Cincinnati Milling Machine [Milacron], Cincinnati), now 61. He has several patents dealing with workholding fixturing (PROHOLD Workholding). Problem was, he's more of an inventor than business man, and his shop was more of a hobby than business really. But when it comes to working up the best way to hold something to machine, I'd put him up against anyone in the business anywhere in the world. His three jaw chucks and hydraulic vises, used in tombstones, are the most versatile and operator friendly for production machining. The IRS put him out of business and now others are making his original products. Not only were they good for manual loading, but could also be completely automated into horizontal machining cells (one I remember most was for machining the finger holes in bowling balls). Anyway, I'm sure he will be able to thread my barrels well enough for use with these new Sig Sauer cans. Master machinists are a disappearing breed of skilled craftsmen, for sure, in the US of A. We knew Ross Perot was telling us the truth back in the 1990's while we watched manufacturing in Rochester, NY (where we did a lot of workholding business) literally dry up almost completely, and head for Mexico. "I love it" when Ohio Gov. John Kasich says he's bringing back jobs after he as a U.S. Congressman at the time voted for GATT and NAFTA. Typical politician - works both sides of the problem to benefit himself only.
Thank You, Enjoyed the post. Reminded me how much i loved using the lathe in 'Metal Shop' class at school,, back in the day. Pondering the idea of fitting a 'muzzle guard / crown protector' on the 'farm / truck' gun; may be even a 'muzzle brake' , to help wife and mates possibly better enjoy 'plinking' ? I will have your demonstration in mind when asking for quotes on the possible work. Cheers mate.
running the lathe in reverse, with the threading tool installed upside down, would allow for a much narrower thread relief. And please don't pull the chips with your hand, you'll end up loosing a finger one day.
Sure is a lot of hating on this guys video. Good job man. And for the others make your own video with all the pros and all that don't do any thing but talk about this and that
That was the best horror video I’ve seen in a long long time, not to mention the clanking of the drive gears too give it effect! It appears that you have developed many bad habits that “will” bite you.. you’re body will never recover from it! Go back to square one and undo the bad habits.
First time with my own old worn out lathe and minimal tooling. Other than the threads being very rough from a dull cutter the rest turned out as intended. Prior to this video I worked with newer lathes and carbide, switching over to hss was a little learning curve along with hand grinding cutters. You must not have watched the updated video of mine on the same exact topic.
When i've done my relief cut for threading i've used a profile too. A VNMG 541 if i remember right. I just set my angle to be parallel with the shoulder and plunge and cut to the shoulder. It leaves you with a slight angle at the end of the thread (beginning of the relief) but the threading tool cleans that up just fine. I just don't tend to have the chatter with a VNMG that i do with a groving/part off tool. Just a thought! Great video.
+Theren Boster hey, that is on my list of tools to get is a nice cut off tool. I do target barrels a little bit differently, but the cap is a little different too. Thanks for watching and commenting!
For suppressor mounting (including muzzle screw-on accessories), wouldn't overall concentricity between the barrel ID bore and threads, and the perpendicularity of the shoulder to the ID bore, be more precise if the barrel was first mounted between centers - to start from that kind of a setup since a lot of barrel ODs are not concentric with barrel ID bores? Can't remember completely, but I saw a barrel first mounted between centers, where one center was in the receiver end of barrel at the end of the through hole in the lathe gearbox housing and the other center in the end of the barrel where the threads were going to be machined. Don't remember all the steps taken after the centering of the barrel bore, but it would seem to me that setting it up between centers would be more accurate than indicating off of a mandrel stuck partway down the barrel. I was told that setting up between centers would assure everything (threads, shoulder, etc.) machined on the OD of the barrel would guarantee an accurate alignment of the centerline of the suppressor (when mounted) with the ID barrel centerline.
+Dennis Varnau Well, first, most guys that builds high end benchrest and target rifle are currently cutting barrels similar to how I do it with there being several different variations. I am basically doing the same thing as running between centers, except I'm indicating off the lands on both ends of the barrel with a tight fitting rod and it leaves almost no room for error. When you run between centers, to do it right, you must first cut 60 degree relief cuts in each end. You can do this a few different ways. You can indicate each end as I did, then cut with your compound and cutter of choice. Second, you can chuck it up in a steady rest and then cut each end, third, you can buy a piloted 60 degree cutter, which I have also, and cut your centers there. Only problem with the last two is that in a steady, you are running off the OD, which can be bad even with a floating reamer holder, and using the tight fitting piloted reamer, you still have to have some clearance for that pilot to work correctly. Would the average guy notice this? No, but when you are shooting at 600-1,000 yards, every little bit helps. There is also the problem on many barrels are not straight! when you run between centers, and you cut your threads, that bullet could be coming out at a slight angle and your brake or whatever you have on there will be off. Again, most guys won't notice. Gordy Gritters a highly respected gunsmith and builder of some extremely accurate rifles only indicates his barrels with the first 4-8" of whatever side he is cutting. He mentioned that sometimes when he indicates his barrels on the chamber end, you can see noticeable run-out on the opposite end and these rifles are match winners! There are several different ways to go about indicating a barrel, and many of them work well. The guy I learned from was an accomplished BR shooter and traveled the US and Canada in the 60's, 70's and 80's winning a lot of matches. He chambered all of his barrels by chucking one end of the barrel in a 3 jaw chuck, then running out to a steady rest on the OD, threading, then reaming with the reamer held tight in a Jacobs chuck in the tail stock. I actually have a couple of these rifles and I built a few this way and they are all 1/2 MOA or better rifles out past 600 yards! He also had several targets that were 5 shots though one bullet diameter hole witnessed by several friends on his private range! Tell me how that works! I'm going to be doing a barrel in the next month hopefully if my reamer arrives from PTG, but I have yet to decide which way I will do it. I'm confident to do it any way I want, but just figuring out which one is the problem. Just saying there's several ways to do it and depending on who you talk to, I do what I do based on other peoples experience, a lot of research, and what I feel works best.
When I was doing my apprenticeship, it was safety safety safety. The instructors told the story of a lad with a baggy shirt who got towed in by the chuck. The tool in the post ripped his arm open to his armpit and broke it in several places before anyone could get to him and turn it off. No gloves, same as grinding, no gloves with moving parts, period. Use barrier cream if you're worried.
Flip your threading tool upside down and run the lathe in reverse. Thread from the relief out and in high speed. I've converted to this and its much easier and faster. Threads turn out better with the higher rpm and carbide inserts. nice trick using the scotch brite on the ends of the brush
Thanks, I've thought about that, but I just got rid of the lathe, got a better one, and learned to sharpen HSS. Life is good now. The new video I did on this subject shows the results. thanks!
I'm very new to to machining. Why do my hss tools struggle to cut 304 stainless? I get loud screaching and my tools get rounded off almost instantly, even when I make just a 5-10 thousandth pass. Did I buy a cheap set of tools, or am I doing something wrong? I have no formal training, this isnjust a hobby I picked up and learned from youtube videos.
Hard to say without more info, but look into grinding tool bits for a lathe and make sure you have the proper cut along with the correct feed and speed. Also make sure the cuter is coming in level to the center axis of the work or a thou or two low. Running it in above center will destroy you bit in no time and won't cut really much at all.
@appleantennasystems instead of issuing a blanket statement of criticism, how about you help educate us on each problem? This type of machining doesn't require much precision.
I worked with a guy like that. he thought he knew everything. he wore gloves, before I could yell at him to tell him to take the FN gloves off he lost Two Fingers. Pulled them right out . at the knuckle at the hand.
I saw the same thing. A fabricator polishing a shaft with gloves on. At least he had something to carry the fingers in when he went to the ER that day. Sick!
My freind i have an heavy barrel AR15 24” stainless still no thread so can you do the work also more info of you SHOP thanks i want to instal an flash suppress THANKS
+Randal Surdyk Are you referring to the pin I used in the bore? I'm not sure exactly what it is without measuring, but usually I fit each one to each bore if I don't already have one that fits. When I make one they are usually within a few 10 thousands end to end, which in most cases better than the play you get from a range rod with a bushing.
Yeah, they are nice. No chamfer, but if you wanted to do a really nice one you would recess the threads and match a cap so it is all seamless and invisible.
Thought I left a comet but I dont see it. heres another any way!. I like watching your videos your calm and just being yourself the quality of the video is very good too. two questions. On the brass crown lapping tool you made what degree did you use 11 or 60 degree. I would think 11 so it stays closer to the face of the lands #2 I have a 1940 south bend heavy 10 L what do they have for a spider I can buy for the back of my spindel, and who sells them. I heard reference to it called the spider the thing that holds & adjust the work center in the back of the spindle. Thank you and thanks for sharing your adventures Mike
the use of protective gloves while working metals is always correct and mandatory ... but there are people who like to put their hand in the Chuck while is turning, that is the problem ...
How much does something like this typically cost? I have a rem 700 with a 26in heavy barrel. Would like to be able to add a muzzle break or suppressor.
well, if I did it, it would look much better than tthe one in the video. Usually around $100. Takes time to set it up and indicate everything before actually cutting it.
Does the barrel need to be taken completely out of the Rifle or can the treading be done with the barrel in the Rifle? The reason I ask is because a gun Smith would charge about $100 bucks to take the barrel off and an additional $100 to reinstall the barrel and space it correctly. The barrel treading and tread adapter would cost about $100. Is that about ? So. We're looking at about $300 bucks for this job.
If someone is charging that much I would recommend looking elsewhere for the service. Removing a barrel and putting it back on in 98% of the cases is a pretty quick and easy job with the correct tools which if they are a good gunsmith they should have. I think we used to knock barrels off and on for $20 a few years ago. If they needed to be headspaced (like a Savage) maybe $40 to do that. That doesn't take long ether. If they were old military actions (Enfields, 1903's, or Mosins) there is a potential for an extra charge because they are a higher risk of pulling a barrel and usually require more effort than say a modern 700 Rem. Then again, sometimes they just screw off without a hitch! There is really no need to pull the receiver off the barrel to do this. You can, but it can also be done with the action on. I've done a lot of Muzzle brakes with the receiver still on the barrel. You just need to indicate the muzzle end properly which should be done regardless of what's hanging off the other end. Many barrels other than the Savage type lock nut barrels can be marked with a witness mark to indicate the barrel on the receiver. When it is put back on, then eliminating the need to headspace it again. This job minus the muzzle brake work if needed, was like an $80-$100 job when I was doing it. Installing a muzzle brake was usually around $200-$250 with a brake.
I know people mean well, but on youtube, you can take a pencil and draw a square on a piece of paper and 500 people will tell you did it wrong. LOL Great video. I subscribed.
+TexanUSMC8089 I know and thanks for mentioning that. This wasn't my best work, and I never thought it would get so popular. Mainly my threads got a little messy, but other than that and the thread length, nothing wrong in my opinion. I'm going to be doing a barrel install soon and the video quality will be much better and my skills are back up to par again after being out of it for a couple years.
Wouldn't it have been better to cut the threads at the correct length, instead of cutting the thread protector? Most threads are long enough to put a lock nut and some even come with a spacer washer. Now it's so short that only has option for one style device. Even my 10mm pistol comes with longer thread's.
Measure twice, cut once. Ok for personal use, but cutting the threads short and then cutting the thread protector short to fix the problem for a customer is a no go.
Dude, you need a lesson on cutting geometry along with the understanding of proper speeds and feeds. And by the way, never, ever, ever remove stringed chips with your hands while the lathe is running.
+sea man In this case, I left the original crown. Another way to do it is to cut a concentric relief cut on the outside edge of the crown. I haven't seen an accuracy diffence so ether way works.
I found this interesting, but if that were my barrel I would not be happy. Too much cut. Not enough threads and the threads are ragged. If that were my thread protector you'd owe me a new one. Only way to fix that the way it should be is to cut back the barrel and start over with a new thread protector as well as properly crown the barrel. I heard "will do" and "close enough" enough to make me sick. Lesson learned: find a gunsmith with some pride in his work.
+James 51 This is just a quick example to show the general process on a junk barrel. Thread protectors are cheap and if you want one sticking out 1/4" past your crown that's fine, that's not the way they are suppose to be. Only purpose of a thread protector is to protect the threads when your brake or a suppressor isn't on there. The depth is set by the brake not the protector. With the amount of threads, I didn't have the correct cutter to make a smaller cut at the time, that being said, one or one and a half more threads on a brake is not going to make a difference as far as strength, and this one was a demo anyways. I do admit the threads were not perfect, but for this demo they were OK. I would never send anything out like this to a paying customer! I've won enough matches with my own rifles to know I'm a much better builder than 95% of the people out there, and although you point out some obvious flaws, it's not correct to make a general assumption off a quick 20 minute demo which only includes 1/2 of the actual time and effort and measuring involved. I've also replaced just about every machine in my shop since I made this and my machines are much tighter than this old POS I was using here. Guess I'll have to make an updated video and do everything as I normally do! Here's a quick video on a brake I did a few years ago when I was still working in a very busy shop building a lot of high end hunting and target rifles for a lot of high end picky customers which expected nothing but the best! ua-cam.com/video/NO9nHPSMDZs/v-deo.html
I'm curious, what happened to the barrel? Did you hand it back to the customer? Has the customer provided feedback on the work? Enough comments have been made about the video here and I've seen the link for the updated version. But I'd really like to know if that barrel is still in use?
It was my barrel. Other than too long of an undercut and some tear on the threads, it worked fine and the thread was still in spec. There are tolerances for barrel diameter that need to be followed when making those undercuts. This was the first one I did in about 3 years after I had purchased a cheap lathe, and not the best tooling. I upgraded my equipment and made the second video. I've again upgraded my tooling since that second video. Top notch stuff now.
Never seen a barrel where the OD ran true with the bore. Your thread relief groove is way to wide, A 5/8-24 thread should be 5/8 long, not 1/2. then you would not need to shorten your thread protector. My 2 cents.
I like the video even with all the know-it-all's chiming in at the bottom=_) The only thing I didn't understand was why after this nice job, you cut the thread protector? It felt to me like an artist that didn't know when to stop and call it finished... ???
I didn't want the crown recessed into a threaded protector, which would then cause the inside of the thread protector to become part of the muzzle. Not good for accuracy.
i have a set of threading kit, it includes 5/8--24 threading die, threading alignment tool and handle, i purchased it at more than $50 and sell it at 30 dollars. it works very well, i only have used once. email me at jbptla@gmail.com
+ericbc7 To a point, yes it will affect it the less threads you have the weaker it will be. You want as small of a relief cut as possible and as many threads as possible.
thats really cool. nice job. I wanna learn how to do this stuff. i inherited a late 90's model cnc lathe and milling machine and I have no idea how to use it. Do you know where would I get advice on a good gunsmithing or machining school to learn how to do this? Im in Atlanta Ga.
There are a few ways to go about learning. The easiest would be to find a local gunsmith that would be willing to teach you. You might have to work for little to nothing at first. Another option is to take a local machining course at a technical school to learn how to run those machines. Finally you could enroll in a gunsmithing program. I'm sure there are a few around but a couple of the more popular ones are Trinidad Tech in Colorado, and Pine City CC in Minnesota. I was fortunate enough to have a few guys teach me and I read and practiced a lot. Most of gunsmithing is doing repairs. If you want to become a builder, that's another game. I'm into building and don't really do repairs anymore. I also am not currently doing work for other people.
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain that. Can you make a good living doing repairs and custom jobs? I looked at a few schools around me..it seems the better ones are several months long. And I will contact all the local gunsmiths to see if they can take me on...maybe even have a place to setup my machines. Im willing to work for free a couple days a week for a few months to get started so I'll shop that idea around. I meant to ask.. I have an Acer dynamic 1740g 17" engine lathe will that do gun work? Again, thank you very much.
That's a large lathe. It will definitely do barrel work, but you may run into a few hurdles with the length or your head stock if you want to go through the head stock. You can always work around that though. As far as making a living, everyone I know started doing it as a hobby and eventually went full time into it and made a decent living.
Most prices I've seen are $75-$100 to thread plus any extra parts. Prices may vary depending on where you are. Most suppressors use a standard 0.600" long thread. The one in this video would work, but it's a little short.
+randy surdyk Yes it can be done that way depending on how you indicate the barrel and assuming you are going through the headstock. Best method would be to use a grizzly rod when doing this. Otherwise if the chamber end of the barrel has previously been trued on the OD, you could indicate off that. There's several ways to do it with the action on.
I have a question..I`m teaching myself how to be a machinist. In the close up of your threads it seems as though the sides or flank(I think they call it) of the thread is not a clean(crisp) cut. Why is that ? Is it chatter ? Your lathe ? or the tooling ? I`m not trying to be critical because I can`t even cut a thread yet..I`m just wondering what causes that ?
Yeah, was a couple things, but mainly a dull cutting tool, and deep cuts instead of taking more lighter cuts. Having a really sharp cutter, correct height, and a solid setup helps. This was a bad thread, but the video got popular quick, so I just let it fly. Your first couple cuts can be 5 thou on the compound, then usually drop down to 3 thou until you get close, then 1-2 thou per cut when you are getting close.
I’m not a machinist so forgive the lack of vocabulary please. I think the thread cutting tool should be advanced at an angle (maybe 60 degrees?) . This keeps the chatter down because you’re not balanced between the left and right thread faces equally. I think there’s a good book called something like “the machinists handbook” If that’s too thick for you try YouTubing “this old tony” for some seriously entertaining machining.
Without purchasing a new barrel, no. You can screw on anything you want, but A) a true barrel extension would be very hard to accomplish, and B) unsafe. If your barrel is to short for your comp, then you will most likely need an aftermarket barrel. Based off your info, that's my opinion.
If that's "24 tpi" that threaded section must be about 1/3 of an inch long because you've only got 7 to 8 threads there MAX. You also used a "fine thread" pitch gauge for your "24 TPI" when "24 TPI" is NOT "fine thread" for 5/8". It's only "fine thread" for diameters 5/16" and 3/8" and "fine thread" for 5/8" is 18 TPI which is MUCH more believable for your threaded section since its clearly MUCH closer to 1/2 in length than only 1/3 of an inch or less. And that has to be 5/8" if its on a .30-caliber barrel regardless and obviously is NOT 1/2 inch if the "minor diameter" is .560" or whatever minor diameter well in excess of .500" you mentioned. Fine threads are also much "shallower" and proportionately shallower than "coarse threads" for the same major diameter so a "24 TPI" fine thread is "50% shallower" than a "16 TPI" coarse thread. The only way to cut more threads per inch with the same "angle" on the thread profile is to cut them shallower proportionately to their increased count per inch. A thread pitch gauge isn't "accurate" for a non-existent "5/8-24" thread and thread pitch gauges are POINTLESS for checking "threads" that haven't been cut yet by holding them on the "scratch" or "scribe" pass. They're used to measure the thread pitch of EXISTING threads and are found in tap & die sets that only contain "standard" diameters and their "standard" fine and coarse thread taps and dies. And since any given "TPI" can be both a "coarse" thread for one diameter and a "fine" thread for another larger diameter, and its when the diameter DOUBLES that "coarse" for the "half diameter" matches up to "fine" for the doubled diameter (16 TPI is 3/8" NC and 3/4" NF) and the thread depth also doubles, the "match" for 5/8" with a 24 TPI "fine" would be 5/16 "coarse". But 5/16 NC is 18 TPI and not 24 TPI. 24 TPI is 5/16 NF. And like I said, those threads look WAY closer to 18 TPI than 24 TPI which happens to be the "match" so where you're getting "24 TPI" is anybody's guess but its wrong.
5/8x24 is basically the industry standard for 1 of 3 main sizes used for muzzle brakes, and suppressors. A tpi gauge is used on any thread, regardless of fine or course thread.
What is up with people wearing anything on their hands operating a lathe. Bare hands...period. I see it all the time now...afraid to get their hands dirty.
Chrisjan0 Hey thanks. As far as the gloves, they are tight fitting nitrile gloves that would tear away if they ever got caught, so I'm not worried about it.
Well done video, good sound and the dual views are nice. Can I ask, when running at 1200, how much material are you typically removing at a time early on? The deep cuts? Obviously towards the end it's very little to get a good finish. Thanks.
+Jason Keim about .020-0.030" per pass. When you know you need to take 0.150" off, you can take a few HEAVY cuts, remeasure, then decrease your cut depth the closer you get. On your final couple passes you should be taking 0.002-0.003" per pass to get to your final dimensions. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Dear god they looked like they were cut with a garden rake. Oh I would have been fired 48 years ago when I started training in tooling, for turning in work like that. 30degree thread form tool, compound set at 30degrees(some guys swear by 29degrees), clearanced across the cutting edge 10 degrees on the front edge and about 15degrees across the top. The trailing edge(back edge) should not cut but I have been known to do a wipe at near 0 by moving the saddle (not the compound) about .0002"-.0005" with a well lubed up tool. This has been beneficial on some ornery stainless steel that just resisted finishing nicely. Honestly I have used the same tool for decades so precision of those angle numbers isn't that critical, other than the thread form itself. Tool height EXACTLY on center, Above will rub and tear, below will scrape rather than cut. Good cutting oil or specialty fluid helps. Nice easy slow speed, based on the material you are cutting. Cratex (rubber impregnated with abrasive) type abrasive to polish and remove the wire edge points on the threads. There are many other thread forms used in the world. I am speaking about standard UNC/UNF threading. ACME is quite a bit different as is British Associated, and forget Whitworth which is close to UNC/UNF but not exactly. Proper use of thread wires or if you've got the bucks, a thread measuring micrometer is needed to do threads correctly to size. Just fitting to someone else's work might get this one job done, but might not fit someone else's work you might want to use at a later time. This was for those who said they wanted some constructive advice and not just critiquing the OP's work. And the gloves are a recipe for disaster on any machining process or machine tool. But that's a talk for another time as it involves a lot of detailed discussion. And thanks for the video anyway.
Quick tip, when threading a 5/8 24 TPI, the correct diameter is actually .620". If you do it to .625 the top of the treads will be too sharp and cause them to stick into whatever you put on it
Great video. It never ceases to amaze me how many "experts" are commenting on UA-cam videos. If you don't do it their way then it's not a good way. I've been cutting threads in barrels for four years or so and I learned to set it up as you did by a gunsmith who has been running a shop for almost 30 years.
Thanks for taking the time to put all this work on video.
+Mike Dittman
No problem, thanks for the comments! There are a few other ways I do these depending on the application, but this is just a basic demonstration.
Look at Joe Pieczinski (Advanced Innovations, Austin Texas)videos and especially his method of cutting threads AWAY from the headstock with the lathe tool upside down and the lathe in reverse. That's how to do it properly. The man is a brilliant engineer/toolmaker and designer. its a joy to watch his videos and to learn new things AND how to do it safely.
@@samrodian919 MD said it all, they learned to do this from a gunsmith. A machinist don't call himself a gunsmith for a damn good reason, he ain't. Every gunsmith I've ever met said they were machinists too.
I could watch this stuff all day
As a tool and die maker I would like to point out some things you are doing that are not safe. 1. Never wear gloves while running a lathe. If the gloves get caught, you will get hurt. 2. Do not grab the chips with your fingers, it is a good way to loose a finger. 3. Never stop a lathe chuck with your hand, especially when wearing gloves. The machine is not forgiving. If your hand gets caught, you are in a whole world of hurt. 5. Never reach over the chuck to do you filing. Always work from the front of the chuck. Once again if your arm gets caught, you will be in a world of hurt. Just for clarity, it is not called a back cut, it is called an under cut. I thought I would let you know these things, because I never want anyone to get hurt.
+T Hall
Thanks for your concern!
+T Hall Don't think rubber gloves are going to "pull you in". If you are so concerned, why not make a video on the absolute safest way to do this, then we can critique your methods sir.
+jason fazenbaker I am concerned that perhaps you are of the ilk that has to put your hand in the fire to see if it really will burn you. Stay as far from danger as possible and you greatly increase you chances of remaining whole for life. It only has to go wrong once.
T Hall I'm pretty sure a LaTeX glove won't pull your fingers off :)
Sure it won't, but it will jerk your hand VERY quickly into a fast moving part wedged against a sharp tool........I know I know, you are stronger than a latex glove, but when one is not expecting it your hand will move too fast in the wrong direction.
knew an old fella that was into precision shooting etc.
Fist time i met him, he had his 6m BR on range. had about a 2inch x about 20 inch long barrel. Asked him why so short, he said a wasp built a nest in the end, so he cut it off with a hacksaw and re-crowned it with a countersink metal bit. then i noticed the cheeky glint in his eye.
Im not a machinist, but even i see some backshed practices going on here. was kinda waiting for that countersink bit to come out.
Considering all the negative stuff on here, i actually like the entire video. I get what some are saying but this was good! Thanks for posting and taking the time to make a good video.
Thanks
I sat and I watched and I drank two sierra nevadas and am richer for the experience. Is all America like this? Wonderful!
+Aaron M
Sounds good! It's been a while since I've had a Sierra Nevada!
That's some pretty rough looking threads! Might want to take a lot of advice from comments below and have a red seal machinist teach you a few tricks of the trade to get better and faster results as well as moving over to carbide helps with cleaner cuts in smaller places especially with threading
Joe MacPherson didn't look like the cutter was square to the work either. You will definitely have a wonky thread if your 30 deg cutter is 5 degs off in the tool holder...
I am not a machinist, but I know as much as this guy. I reckon I have been watching too much of Joe Pie.
I have 45 years as a machinist and this is painful to watch. good luck to you sir.
Always wanted to learn lathe and mill ops. Never got the chance. Thnks for training session
I'm glad that's not my gun
Me too! I did this video several years ago on the fly with a junk barrel after just getting my first worn out lathe set up. Had a few issues but #1 was a poor (or dull) cutting tool. Before this I always did this work in other gunsmith shops with much nicer lathes and tooling. I've since upgraded all my equipment and always cut nice sharp threads and much smaller back cuts (if needed). Never thought this video would get that much attention, but it did. I should really make an updated video.
the site name really need to be rethought on the precision part
Please upload your videos and show us how you do it the proper way.. he is a amatuer machinist and i dont recall him saying anything to imply his way is the right way.. its his way.. and i thank him for the content.. now im gonna go make something my way.. why dont you all just go comment on more videos about people doing it wrong... while we actually do it
Thanks for taking the time to make videos There awesome.
Dude, you scare me to death. Your flagrant disregard for safety will eventually maim you. 1. lose the gloves. 2. Buy a compressor and blow the chips off with a controllable air nozzle. 3. Keep your hands off the spinning parts. Period. 4. Respect the power you are playing with; a lathe that smoothly cuts through metal will not even slow down when it sucks you into it.
No shit, seriously! If you've not been trained in the safe methods of machine work spend the money and take the safety courses. It only has to go wrong once.
Thanks for this video and the followup one you did, they really helped with my school assignment.
If I had a dime for every time I read "As a ___________ of [so many years] . . ." as some sort of authoritative lead to a laundry list of UA-cam comments, I could retire tomorrow. It's pathetic and unnecessary.
What many of you should instead be saying to the owner of this UA-cam channel is something along these lines: "As an individual whose lack of self-control is equaled only by my felt need to correct everyone: [insert your uninvited critiques]." After all, it's all about being accurate and correct, right?
It's sickening and happens everywhere on UA-cam
Kinda reminds me of a quote by Will Rogers" There are three kinds of men, one that learns by reading, ones that learn by observation, and others who must pee on the electric fence for themselves" If you have been advised several time by tradesmen with many years of experience, what could you know about safety that they don't? Why not take their advice to live a long and healthy life?
Thank you sir for our thorough answer. I have several barrels to be machined for new Sig Sauer silencers I just purchased last year (but I have plenty of time to get them done with the months wait on getting the tax stamp from the AFT) and want to make sure they are threaded correctly first time around.
Please correct me where I may be wrong in my understanding of your explanation. You said you used a "tight fitting rod" on both ends to indicate in the barrel. Essentially that takes the place of using a center on both ends (if I am comprehending correctly). A "tight fitting rod," depending on how tight of a fit there is between the lands and rod, I would think is not as "tight" as using centers on both ends, since there could be tenths error (probably of little or no consequence really) in using the setup indicating off the rods, whereas using the centers would eliminate any indicating errors and place the accuracy completely on the lathe's inherent accuracy.
But either way, using the rod indicating method or putting the barrel between centers, it would seem to me both would exhibit the same end result when dealing with a "bent" or "curved" barrel. Then again, thinking about it in more detail, maybe using a "rod" that is really "tight fitting" (no play at all) inside the end of the barrel bore even two inches in depth down the bore, just might be more accurate on a "bent" barrel because when the bullet leaves the last engagement of the rifling it is probably on a trajectory straight out of the last quarter inch or so of the barrel, thus making it more in line with a suppressor screwed onto the end of the barrel using that rod indicating method, whereas indicating between centers would produce threads somewhat skewed, depending on the total "bend" or "curvature" of the barrel from one end to the other.
The more I think about it, the more it seems like you would not even have to consider indicating both ends unless you want to find out how "bent" the barrel may be, which really doesn't matter when threading the muzzle end because the bullet will be going straight from the last few fractions of an inch it is last engaged in prior to free flight through the suppressor. So, the way you have shown in the video now seems to be the more accurate way to do it. And, probably making the rod of the "tightest" fit possible into the bore, with the exposed diameter of the rod being much larger than the diameter of the rod inside the barrel, would make any indicating off the larger diameter of the rod much more pronounced on the readout (like being magnified) than indicating on a smaller diameter like say a .22 or .17 caliber. Just thinking and checking. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
+Dennis Varnau
The more a guy thinks about it the more he second guesses everything! LOL.... The problem with relying on the lathes accuracy is that unless you have a brand new machine, or a newly rebuilt one (as I do) and you spend hours lining everything up, you can't rely on the lathe to be where you want it every time. That is the whole reason for indicating a barrel. If A lathe has been around for a while they usually need to have their tail stock aligned ether by a radial gauge, or a test bar which is usually 18-24" long. The problem with that to me is that it might line up next to the head stock with a radial micrometer, or at 18-24" with a test bar, but will it line up at 26+ inches if you are doing a longer barrel? How about a 12" barrel? I know my lathe would because everything has just been ground, but a 30-40 year old lathe that's been in use? Who knows?
On top of that if you run between centers without first cutting a new bearing surface you are asking for run-out! Running on factory cut centers is not a reliable method. I know you can cut the face of ether end of the barrel, then run your centers on that, but some guys will argue that with the tiny amount of bearing surface in this case, you run the risk of having one side of the lands softer/harder than the other and when you tighten your barrel down, it will deviate to one side. When you cut centers with a piloted reamer, you will get much more (relatively not that much) error vs the tight rod, due to the clearance the bushing needs on the pilot. My rods only move on one axis, the X axis in and out of the bore. There is just enough clearance to get the rod in the bore and no more. Here were are talking about a few ten thousands. 0.0002-0.0004". Now the trick then becomes how close can I zero that out in my lathe with my indicators.
When I was installing a lot of muzzle breaks for another gunsmith, most of the time, I would leave the action on, and run the barrel through the headstock and indicate the last 3-4"" of the barrel. You indicate close to the muzzle, then out on the end of the rod, which was usually about 3" out past the muzzle. I figure at that point, if I could zero everything out here, There would be a 6" straight path for the bullet to travel and would exit the muzzle at a concentric point to the bore of the muzzle. Most times the barrel ended up pretty straight in the lathe, but I also did a lot of Remington factory barrels, and they are horrible for being both "bent" and having horrible OD concentricity.
The same gunsmith also would have me cut piloted centers, and turn the shank of the barrel so it has a concentric OD relative to the new center. He would then call these barrels "blue printed", which I guess technically is true, but using pins will get you closer to zero run-out. Don't get me wrong, these were all great shooting rifles, but like I mentioned before, my most accurate rifle, which has shot in the 0.2" range 5 shot group at 100 yards on several occasions, and consistently shoots in the 0.4-0.6 MOA range, is a 7mm Mag with a palma contour barrel which was done by chucking up in the three jaw, and out on the steady as I mentioned before! It's a hunting rifle too!
Anyways, personally I would be a little scared to thread for a silencer by running between centers. Not because I would be afraid that the bullet would hit it, but I would want to make sure everything was dead concentric if I'm shelling out the cash for a silencer. It sticks out past the muzzle quite a bit further than a muzzle break which are usually no more the 2-3" out. There are better ways to do it in my opinion.
+Precision Machine Shed Thanks again. I'm going to have my brother read over these paragraphs first, before I give him my barrels to machine. He's been doing machining since high school (then Cincinnati Milling Machine [Milacron], Cincinnati), now 61. He has several patents dealing with workholding fixturing (PROHOLD Workholding). Problem was, he's more of an inventor than business man, and his shop was more of a hobby than business really. But when it comes to working up the best way to hold something to machine, I'd put him up against anyone in the business anywhere in the world. His three jaw chucks and hydraulic vises, used in tombstones, are the most versatile and operator friendly for production machining. The IRS put him out of business and now others are making his original products. Not only were they good for manual loading, but could also be completely automated into horizontal machining cells (one I remember most was for machining the finger holes in bowling balls). Anyway, I'm sure he will be able to thread my barrels well enough for use with these new Sig Sauer cans. Master machinists are a disappearing breed of skilled craftsmen, for sure, in the US of A. We knew Ross Perot was telling us the truth back in the 1990's while we watched manufacturing in Rochester, NY (where we did a lot of workholding business) literally dry up almost completely, and head for Mexico. "I love it" when Ohio Gov. John Kasich says he's bringing back jobs after he as a U.S. Congressman at the time voted for GATT and NAFTA. Typical politician - works both sides of the problem to benefit himself only.
if you want it done properly don't get this guy to do it! lol
I think I just got a piece of metal in my eye. Good video I will be sure to send off my barrel to the pro's.
Not fun
enjoyed the vid been a minute since I've been in a machine shop!
Awesome watching this guy work! He does a nice job explaining every step and actually makes sense!
+J Rob
Thanks!
That must be an ironic piss taking comment, coz surely you ain't serious
This is a lot more complicated than I thought
Thank You, Enjoyed the post. Reminded me how much i loved using the lathe in 'Metal Shop' class at school,, back in the day. Pondering the idea of fitting a 'muzzle guard / crown protector' on the 'farm / truck' gun; may be even a 'muzzle brake' , to help wife and mates possibly better enjoy 'plinking' ? I will have your demonstration in mind when asking for quotes on the possible work. Cheers mate.
Sounds good. Thanks for the comments. I may do a better quality remake of this one in the future.
running the lathe in reverse, with the threading tool installed upside down, would allow for a much narrower thread relief. And please don't pull the chips with your hand, you'll end up loosing a finger one day.
It was the only parting tool I had at the time. I've since changed quite a few things and get much much better results.
yes dont use your hand and dont use any kind of gloves. even latex will pull you in. nice video.
Sure is a lot of hating on this guys video. Good job man. And for the others make your own video with all the pros and all that don't do any thing but talk about this and that
That was the best horror video I’ve seen in a long long time, not to mention the clanking of the drive gears too give it effect! It appears that you have developed many bad habits that “will” bite you.. you’re body will never recover from it! Go back to square one and undo the bad habits.
This is an old video, thanks
First time with my own old worn out lathe and minimal tooling. Other than the threads being very rough from a dull cutter the rest turned out as intended. Prior to this video I worked with newer lathes and carbide, switching over to hss was a little learning curve along with hand grinding cutters. You must not have watched the updated video of mine on the same exact topic.
When i've done my relief cut for threading i've used a profile too. A VNMG 541 if i remember right. I just set my angle to be parallel with the shoulder and plunge and cut to the shoulder. It leaves you with a slight angle at the end of the thread (beginning of the relief) but the threading tool cleans that up just fine. I just don't tend to have the chatter with a VNMG that i do with a groving/part off tool.
Just a thought! Great video.
+Theren Boster hey, that is on my list of tools to get is a nice cut off tool. I do target barrels a little bit differently, but the cap is a little different too. Thanks for watching and commenting!
For suppressor mounting (including muzzle screw-on accessories), wouldn't overall concentricity between the barrel ID bore and threads, and the perpendicularity of the shoulder to the ID bore, be more precise if the barrel was first mounted between centers - to start from that kind of a setup since a lot of barrel ODs are not concentric with barrel ID bores? Can't remember completely, but I saw a barrel first mounted between centers, where one center was in the receiver end of barrel at the end of the through hole in the lathe gearbox housing and the other center in the end of the barrel where the threads were going to be machined. Don't remember all the steps taken after the centering of the barrel bore, but it would seem to me that setting it up between centers would be more accurate than indicating off of a mandrel stuck partway down the barrel. I was told that setting up between centers would assure everything (threads, shoulder, etc.) machined on the OD of the barrel would guarantee an accurate alignment of the centerline of the suppressor (when mounted) with the ID barrel centerline.
+Dennis Varnau
Well, first, most guys that builds high end benchrest and target rifle are currently cutting barrels similar to how I do it with there being several different variations. I am basically doing the same thing as running between centers, except I'm indicating off the lands on both ends of the barrel with a tight fitting rod and it leaves almost no room for error. When you run between centers, to do it right, you must first cut 60 degree relief cuts in each end. You can do this a few different ways. You can indicate each end as I did, then cut with your compound and cutter of choice. Second, you can chuck it up in a steady rest and then cut each end, third, you can buy a piloted 60 degree cutter, which I have also, and cut your centers there. Only problem with the last two is that in a steady, you are running off the OD, which can be bad even with a floating reamer holder, and using the tight fitting piloted reamer, you still have to have some clearance for that pilot to work correctly.
Would the average guy notice this? No, but when you are shooting at 600-1,000 yards, every little bit helps. There is also the problem on many barrels are not straight! when you run between centers, and you cut your threads, that bullet could be coming out at a slight angle and your brake or whatever you have on there will be off. Again, most guys won't notice. Gordy Gritters a highly respected gunsmith and builder of some extremely accurate rifles only indicates his barrels with the first 4-8" of whatever side he is cutting. He mentioned that sometimes when he indicates his barrels on the chamber end, you can see noticeable run-out on the opposite end and these rifles are match winners!
There are several different ways to go about indicating a barrel, and many of them work well. The guy I learned from was an accomplished BR shooter and traveled the US and Canada in the 60's, 70's and 80's winning a lot of matches. He chambered all of his barrels by chucking one end of the barrel in a 3 jaw chuck, then running out to a steady rest on the OD, threading, then reaming with the reamer held tight in a Jacobs chuck in the tail stock. I actually have a couple of these rifles and I built a few this way and they are all 1/2 MOA or better rifles out past 600 yards! He also had several targets that were 5 shots though one bullet diameter hole witnessed by several friends on his private range! Tell me how that works!
I'm going to be doing a barrel in the next month hopefully if my reamer arrives from PTG, but I have yet to decide which way I will do it. I'm confident to do it any way I want, but just figuring out which one is the problem.
Just saying there's several ways to do it and depending on who you talk to, I do what I do based on other peoples experience, a lot of research, and what I feel works best.
And still got runoutYour only measuring at one point, in effect can often swing eccentric towards breach and have same effect as cutting on the piss.
Thanks, looks easy enough 😁
The machinist in me thinks your tools are dull and thread length was always taught 1.5 the diameter 🤓
Yeah, Tools were dull.
When I was doing my apprenticeship, it was safety safety safety. The instructors told the story of a lad with a baggy shirt who got towed in by the chuck. The tool in the post ripped his arm open to his armpit and broke it in several places before anyone could get to him and turn it off. No gloves, same as grinding, no gloves with moving parts, period. Use barrier cream if you're worried.
You could move that parting tool out a little further. That way you could maintain a C#
This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ua-cam.com/video/S_dMUM-uUTo/v-deo.html
This guy needs to watch AboM79 channel to see how to use machines, measure and cut threads properly
ABSOLUTELY!
Great job bro
Thanks
Flip your threading tool upside down and run the lathe in reverse. Thread from the relief out and in high speed.
I've converted to this and its much easier and faster. Threads turn out better with the higher rpm and carbide inserts.
nice trick using the scotch brite on the ends of the brush
Thanks, I've thought about that, but I just got rid of the lathe, got a better one, and learned to sharpen HSS. Life is good now. The new video I did on this subject shows the results. thanks!
Excellent job. 👍
I'm very new to to machining. Why do my hss tools struggle to cut 304 stainless? I get loud screaching and my tools get rounded off almost instantly, even when I make just a 5-10 thousandth pass. Did I buy a cheap set of tools, or am I doing something wrong? I have no formal training, this isnjust a hobby I picked up and learned from youtube videos.
Hard to say without more info, but look into grinding tool bits for a lathe and make sure you have the proper cut along with the correct feed and speed. Also make sure the cuter is coming in level to the center axis of the work or a thou or two low. Running it in above center will destroy you bit in no time and won't cut really much at all.
I concur with T Hall. Enough said...
This whole vid is so wrong in so many ways, after 50 years in the trade I see no precision machining here, just danger.....
You must not have seen the new video.
Wow just terrible. “And to finish off the project, I order the customer a new barrel”
I agree! Just the gloves alone make me cringe.
@appleantennasystems instead of issuing a blanket statement of criticism, how about you help educate us on each problem? This type of machining doesn't require much precision.
@@martycat437 Maybe in his day job he's a hand model, and he's protecting his money maker.
Good stuff. looking forward to watching more videos. I like the double camera view too. all around good
I am in the middle of getting my "new" shop put together and once that happens I'll start making more videos.
I worked with a guy like that. he thought he knew everything. he wore gloves, before I could yell at him to tell him to take the FN gloves off he lost Two Fingers. Pulled them right out . at the knuckle at the hand.
I saw the same thing. A fabricator polishing a shaft with gloves on. At least he had something to carry the fingers in when he went to the ER that day. Sick!
My freind i have an heavy barrel AR15 24” stainless still no thread so can you do the work also more info of you SHOP thanks i want to instal an flash suppress THANKS
apexcustomrifles@gmail.com
Outstanding
Looks good
This was hard to watch.
Great video 👌
At my job we just stand back and watch then laugh
I ENJOYED THE PROCESS .....WHEN YOU WORK FOR YOURSELF .....YOU ONLY HAVE TO PLEASE THE CUSTOMER 😎
what is the advantage of using a lathe for this rather than a tap and die set? Other than cutting the diameter for the threads..................
outstanding video.. showed all info needed. major and minor dia.. just curious if you'd reveal the o.d for a guide pin for a rem. 700 .308
+Randal Surdyk
Are you referring to the pin I used in the bore? I'm not sure exactly what it is without measuring, but usually I fit each one to each bore if I don't already have one that fits. When I make one they are usually within a few 10 thousands end to end, which in most cases better than the play you get from a range rod with a bushing.
Thanks for posting; and thanks for leaving it up. 😉
Thank God for Quick Change Tool Post and tool holders! No chamfer on the end to ease threading?
Yeah, they are nice. No chamfer, but if you wanted to do a really nice one you would recess the threads and match a cap so it is all seamless and invisible.
Which god Bob? I don't think Thor gives a rats ass about your barrel =_)
What will you charge to put half inch unf thread on airrifle barrel and cut new crown?
Darwin award coming up.lol
Thank you for mentioning not using compressed air on a lathe. Great video. RG
No problem, Thanks!
Yeah but jo pi does it so idk bout alp that.
Thought I left a comet but I dont see it. heres another any way!.
I like watching your videos your calm and just being yourself the quality of the video is very good too.
two questions.
On the brass crown lapping tool you made what degree did you use 11 or 60 degree. I would think 11 so it stays closer to the face of the lands
#2 I have a 1940 south bend heavy 10 L what do they have for a spider I can buy for the back of my spindel, and who sells them. I heard reference to it called the spider the thing that holds & adjust the work center in the back of the spindle.
Thank you and thanks for sharing your adventures
Mike
don't wear jewelry,, gloves or long sleeves while running a lathe. keep you fingers and hands away from a turn chuck, use the stop.
the use of protective gloves while working metals is always correct and mandatory ... but there are people who like to put their hand in the Chuck while is turning, that is the problem ...
can you make one for a 40cal s&w how much wood it cost for outside threaded
How much does something like this typically cost? I have a rem 700 with a 26in heavy barrel. Would like to be able to add a muzzle break or suppressor.
well, if I did it, it would look much better than tthe one in the video. Usually around $100. Takes time to set it up and indicate everything before actually cutting it.
@@precisionmachineshed thanks for the reply. Good to know. I wish you were in Phoenix, Arizona!
Does the barrel need to be taken completely out of the Rifle or can the treading be done with the barrel in the Rifle? The reason I ask is because a gun Smith would charge about $100 bucks to take the barrel off and an additional $100 to reinstall the barrel and space it correctly. The barrel treading and tread adapter would cost about $100. Is that about ? So. We're looking at about $300 bucks for this job.
If someone is charging that much I would recommend looking elsewhere for the service. Removing a barrel and putting it back on in 98% of the cases is a pretty quick and easy job with the correct tools which if they are a good gunsmith they should have. I think we used to knock barrels off and on for $20 a few years ago. If they needed to be headspaced (like a Savage) maybe $40 to do that. That doesn't take long ether. If they were old military actions (Enfields, 1903's, or Mosins) there is a potential for an extra charge because they are a higher risk of pulling a barrel and usually require more effort than say a modern 700 Rem. Then again, sometimes they just screw off without a hitch!
There is really no need to pull the receiver off the barrel to do this. You can, but it can also be done with the action on. I've done a lot of Muzzle brakes with the receiver still on the barrel. You just need to indicate the muzzle end properly which should be done regardless of what's hanging off the other end.
Many barrels other than the Savage type lock nut barrels can be marked with a witness mark to indicate the barrel on the receiver. When it is put back on, then eliminating the need to headspace it again.
This job minus the muzzle brake work if needed, was like an $80-$100 job when I was doing it. Installing a muzzle brake was usually around $200-$250 with a brake.
Thank you for your time in explaining that.
Tight work
What thread size/pattern would be good for a 9.3x62 Mauser? Bullet Diameter is .366. My 223 Rem is 1/2"-28.
Hey, I would throw a 5/8"x24 brake on there. Should be plenty of barrel after threading.
I know people mean well, but on youtube, you can take a pencil and draw a square on a piece of paper and 500 people will tell you did it wrong. LOL Great video. I subscribed.
+TexanUSMC8089
I know and thanks for mentioning that. This wasn't my best work, and I never thought it would get so popular. Mainly my threads got a little messy, but other than that and the thread length, nothing wrong in my opinion.
I'm going to be doing a barrel install soon and the video quality will be much better and my skills are back up to par again after being out of it for a couple years.
lol. don't have the barrel hanging so far from the chuck.
(I just wanted to be one of THOSE guys)
Wouldn't it have been better to cut the threads at the correct length, instead of cutting the thread protector? Most threads are long enough to put a lock nut and some even come with a spacer washer. Now it's so short that only has option for one style device. Even my 10mm pistol comes with longer thread's.
The middle spit in the die is suppose to be in the middle! That way you have some thread adjustment
how would you go about permanently fixing the thread protector?
Pin and weld, or cut if off and crown it.
Red loctite?
Remarkable I would like to learn more in detail .
This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ua-cam.com/video/S_dMUM-uUTo/v-deo.html
Very entertaining and educational. Great video.
Measure twice, cut once. Ok for personal use, but cutting the threads short and then cutting the thread protector short to fix the problem for a customer is a no go.
Dude, you need a lesson on cutting geometry along with the understanding of proper speeds and feeds. And by the way, never, ever, ever remove stringed chips with your hands while the lathe is running.
Thanks
what lathe is this
El_Caliph I'll assume you'll be making the video to give him the lesson?
The sad part is some people will watch this and learn from it.......
Yea learn what not to do to your barrel if you are not blind.
This is going to sound stupid to a machinist but I've got a 1/2-28 die, do I turn my muzzle down to .500 before I thread it?
Yes, that's correct.
Thanks man.
what about the crowning
+sea man
In this case, I left the original crown. Another way to do it is to cut a concentric relief cut on the outside edge of the crown. I haven't seen an accuracy diffence so ether way works.
I found this interesting, but if that were my barrel I would not be happy. Too much cut. Not enough threads and the threads are ragged. If that were my thread protector you'd owe me a new one. Only way to fix that the way it should be is to cut back the barrel and start over with a new thread protector as well as properly crown the barrel. I heard "will do" and "close enough" enough to make me sick. Lesson learned: find a gunsmith with some pride in his work.
+James 51 This is just a quick example to show the general process on a junk barrel. Thread protectors are cheap and if you want one sticking out 1/4" past your crown that's fine, that's not the way they are suppose to be. Only purpose of a thread protector is to protect the threads when your brake or a suppressor isn't on there. The depth is set by the brake not the protector. With the amount of threads, I didn't have the correct cutter to make a smaller cut at the time, that being said, one or one and a half more threads on a brake is not going to make a difference as far as strength, and this one was a demo anyways. I do admit the threads were not perfect, but for this demo they were OK. I would never send anything out like this to a paying customer! I've won enough matches with my own rifles to know I'm a much better builder than 95% of the people out there, and although you point out some obvious flaws, it's not correct to make a general assumption off a quick 20 minute demo which only includes 1/2 of the actual time and effort and measuring involved. I've also replaced just about every machine in my shop since I made this and my machines are much tighter than this old POS I was using here. Guess I'll have to make an updated video and do everything as I normally do!
Here's a quick video on a brake I did a few years ago when I was still working in a very busy shop building a lot of high end hunting and target rifles for a lot of high end picky customers which expected nothing but the best!
ua-cam.com/video/NO9nHPSMDZs/v-deo.html
I guess you cant thread to a shoulder with out a relief grove to stop you threading tool in yes hack job for sure.
Too fucking right James!
I'm curious, what happened to the barrel? Did you hand it back to the customer? Has the customer provided feedback on the work? Enough comments have been made about the video here and I've seen the link for the updated version.
But I'd really like to know if that barrel is still in use?
It was my barrel. Other than too long of an undercut and some tear on the threads, it worked fine and the thread was still in spec. There are tolerances for barrel diameter that need to be followed when making those undercuts. This was the first one I did in about 3 years after I had purchased a cheap lathe, and not the best tooling. I upgraded my equipment and made the second video. I've again upgraded my tooling since that second video. Top notch stuff now.
Never seen a barrel where the OD ran true with the bore. Your thread relief groove is way to wide, A 5/8-24 thread should be 5/8 long, not 1/2. then you would not need to shorten your thread protector. My 2 cents.
I like the video even with all the know-it-all's chiming in at the bottom=_) The only thing I didn't understand was why after this nice job, you cut the thread protector? It felt to me like an artist that didn't know when to stop and call it finished... ???
I didn't want the crown recessed into a threaded protector, which would then cause the inside of the thread protector to become part of the muzzle. Not good for accuracy.
Nice video, you made it look easy.
@8.0 or so, 'I'm going to slow it down some more, the bit...'. I'm thinking how about lubricate the damn work!
Ah, yes...... how things have changed.
Very Good! Now to see what size the pass-thru is on that lathe :D
+RGRundeRGRound That lathe was 1 3/8". I could do just about everything I wanted to with it. Thanks for watching!
i have a set of threading kit, it includes 5/8--24 threading die, threading alignment tool and handle, i purchased it at more than $50 and sell it at 30 dollars. it works very well, i only have used once. email me at jbptla@gmail.com
How much does something like this usually cost for a customer?
Nice work!
thanks. New and improved video turned out much better though.
I'm not a machinist but I did stay at one of those motels?!🤣 But seriously, don't sweat it, just don't be reckless with the hands and digits.
Aside from less bearing area for the threads, are there any drawbacks to having such a large relief cut?
+ericbc7
To a point, yes it will affect it the less threads you have the weaker it will be. You want as small of a relief cut as possible and as many threads as possible.
thats really cool. nice job. I wanna learn how to do this stuff. i inherited a late 90's model cnc lathe and milling machine and I have no idea how to use it. Do you know where would I get advice on a good gunsmithing or machining school to learn how to do this? Im in Atlanta Ga.
There are a few ways to go about learning. The easiest would be to find a local gunsmith that would be willing to teach you. You might have to work for little to nothing at first. Another option is to take a local machining course at a technical school to learn how to run those machines. Finally you could enroll in a gunsmithing program. I'm sure there are a few around but a couple of the more popular ones are Trinidad Tech in Colorado, and Pine City CC in Minnesota. I was fortunate enough to have a few guys teach me and I read and practiced a lot. Most of gunsmithing is doing repairs. If you want to become a builder, that's another game. I'm into building and don't really do repairs anymore. I also am not currently doing work for other people.
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain that. Can you make a good living doing repairs and custom jobs? I looked at a few schools around me..it seems the better ones are several months long. And I will contact all the local gunsmiths to see if they can take me on...maybe even have a place to setup my machines. Im willing to work for free a couple days a week for a few months to get started so I'll shop that idea around. I meant to ask.. I have an Acer dynamic 1740g 17" engine lathe will that do gun work? Again, thank you very much.
That's a large lathe. It will definitely do barrel work, but you may run into a few hurdles with the length or your head stock if you want to go through the head stock. You can always work around that though. As far as making a living, everyone I know started doing it as a hobby and eventually went full time into it and made a decent living.
WHY DIDNT YOU MAKE THE CUT .750 DEEP?
How much should cost total? An would that be enough space to add a suppressor ?
Most prices I've seen are $75-$100 to thread plus any extra parts. Prices may vary depending on where you are. Most suppressors use a standard 0.600" long thread. The one in this video would work, but it's a little short.
as a pseudo machinist. I'm just making sure I have all info. is is feasible to leave action on. when the turning
+randy surdyk
Yes it can be done that way depending on how you indicate the barrel and assuming you are going through the headstock. Best method would be to use a grizzly rod when doing this. Otherwise if the chamber end of the barrel has previously been trued on the OD, you could indicate off that. There's several ways to do it with the action on.
I have a question..I`m teaching myself how to be a machinist. In the close up of your threads it seems as though the sides or flank(I think they call it) of the thread is not a clean(crisp) cut. Why is that ? Is it chatter ? Your lathe ? or the tooling ? I`m not trying to be critical because I can`t even cut a thread yet..I`m just wondering what causes that ?
Yeah, was a couple things, but mainly a dull cutting tool, and deep cuts instead of taking more lighter cuts. Having a really sharp cutter, correct height, and a solid setup helps. This was a bad thread, but the video got popular quick, so I just let it fly. Your first couple cuts can be 5 thou on the compound, then usually drop down to 3 thou until you get close, then 1-2 thou per cut when you are getting close.
I’m not a machinist so forgive the lack of vocabulary please. I think the thread cutting tool should be advanced at an angle (maybe 60 degrees?) . This keeps the chatter down because you’re not balanced between the left and right thread faces equally.
I think there’s a good book called something like “the machinists handbook”
If that’s too thick for you try YouTubing “this old tony” for some seriously entertaining machining.
sir, sorry for being off topic. is it possible to extend a glock barrel? just bought a sjc compensator. extend the length with a thread?
Without purchasing a new barrel, no. You can screw on anything you want, but A) a true barrel extension would be very hard to accomplish, and B) unsafe. If your barrel is to short for your comp, then you will most likely need an aftermarket barrel. Based off your info, that's my opinion.
Amigo muy buen trabajo, solo mi opinion, no trabajes con esos guantes te va a jalar el torno
is it possible to thread an 25 acp barrel? thought it would be kinda funny to put a silencer on alil 25 lol
Possible, maybe but your barrel might not have enough meat to put a thread on.
Did you use a travel indicator for your tool travel stop point?
no, everything was measured.
If that's "24 tpi" that threaded section must be about 1/3 of an inch long because you've only got 7 to 8 threads there MAX. You also used a "fine thread" pitch gauge for your "24 TPI" when "24 TPI" is NOT "fine thread" for 5/8". It's only "fine thread" for diameters 5/16" and 3/8" and "fine thread" for 5/8" is 18 TPI which is MUCH more believable for your threaded section since its clearly MUCH closer to 1/2 in length than only 1/3 of an inch or less. And that has to be 5/8" if its on a .30-caliber barrel regardless and obviously is NOT 1/2 inch if the "minor diameter" is .560" or whatever minor diameter well in excess of .500" you mentioned. Fine threads are also much "shallower" and proportionately shallower than "coarse threads" for the same major diameter so a "24 TPI" fine thread is "50% shallower" than a "16 TPI" coarse thread. The only way to cut more threads per inch with the same "angle" on the thread profile is to cut them shallower proportionately to their increased count per inch. A thread pitch gauge isn't "accurate" for a non-existent "5/8-24" thread and thread pitch gauges are POINTLESS for checking "threads" that haven't been cut yet by holding them on the "scratch" or "scribe" pass. They're used to measure the thread pitch of EXISTING threads and are found in tap & die sets that only contain "standard" diameters and their "standard" fine and coarse thread taps and dies. And since any given "TPI" can be both a "coarse" thread for one diameter and a "fine" thread for another larger diameter, and its when the diameter DOUBLES that "coarse" for the "half diameter" matches up to "fine" for the doubled diameter (16 TPI is 3/8" NC and 3/4" NF) and the thread depth also doubles, the "match" for 5/8" with a 24 TPI "fine" would be 5/16 "coarse". But 5/16 NC is 18 TPI and not 24 TPI. 24 TPI is 5/16 NF. And like I said, those threads look WAY closer to 18 TPI than 24 TPI which happens to be the "match" so where you're getting "24 TPI" is anybody's guess but its wrong.
5/8x24 is basically the industry standard for 1 of 3 main sizes used for muzzle brakes, and suppressors. A tpi gauge is used on any thread, regardless of fine or course thread.
It's as easy as that.lol Great job, don't worry about the TROLLS
Thanks
Rip Remington
What is up with people wearing anything on their hands operating a lathe. Bare hands...period. I see it all the time now...afraid to get their hands dirty.
Nice work and vid. Is the gloves not a safety risk?
Chrisjan0 Hey thanks. As far as the gloves, they are tight fitting nitrile gloves that would tear away if they ever got caught, so I'm not worried about it.
UA-cam's best how not to video! WOW!
This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ua-cam.com/video/S_dMUM-uUTo/v-deo.html
Well done video, good sound and the dual views are nice. Can I ask, when running at 1200, how much material are you typically removing at a time early on? The deep cuts? Obviously towards the end it's very little to get a good finish. Thanks.
+Jason Keim about .020-0.030" per pass. When you know you need to take 0.150" off, you can take a few HEAVY cuts, remeasure, then decrease your cut depth the closer you get. On your final couple passes you should be taking 0.002-0.003" per pass to get to your final dimensions. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Great, thanks again for the info!!
I cannot find anybody to thread my Beretta model 71 in 22 cal.
That is some rough cut thread.
Dear god they looked like they were cut with a garden rake. Oh I would have been fired 48 years ago when I started training in tooling, for turning in work like that. 30degree thread form tool, compound set at 30degrees(some guys swear by 29degrees), clearanced across the cutting edge 10 degrees on the front edge and about 15degrees across the top. The trailing edge(back edge) should not cut but I have been known to do a wipe at near 0 by moving the saddle (not the compound) about .0002"-.0005" with a well lubed up tool. This has been beneficial on some ornery stainless steel that just resisted finishing nicely. Honestly I have used the same tool for decades so precision of those angle numbers isn't that critical, other than the thread form itself. Tool height EXACTLY on center, Above will rub and tear, below will scrape rather than cut. Good cutting oil or specialty fluid helps. Nice easy slow speed, based on the material you are cutting. Cratex (rubber impregnated with abrasive) type abrasive to polish and remove the wire edge points on the threads. There are many other thread forms used in the world. I am speaking about standard UNC/UNF threading. ACME is quite a bit different as is British Associated, and forget Whitworth which is close to UNC/UNF but not exactly. Proper use of thread wires or if you've got the bucks, a thread measuring micrometer is needed to do threads correctly to size. Just fitting to someone else's work might get this one job done, but might not fit someone else's work you might want to use at a later time. This was for those who said they wanted some constructive advice and not just critiquing the OP's work. And the gloves are a recipe for disaster on any machining process or machine tool. But that's a talk for another time as it involves a lot of detailed discussion. And thanks for the video anyway.