Ancient Coins: How to Avoid Fakes
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Ancient Coin collecting is a wonderful hobby, but even the best communities have its bad apples, some forgeries are out there, but they dont need to scare you away from collecting.
Today, I am going over a series of steps you could take to greatly diminish the probability of buying fake coins.
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"Know the coin or know the seller." That lesson was drilled into me when I started this hobby 8 years ago by experienced collectors, and it's a lesson that I always pass on to new collectors because there is a tremendous amount of wisdom in that simple sentence.
Your video supports that sentence, and lays out in detail the importance of good scholarship and trust in this hobby. Thanks for posting this on Reddit where I found it.
I feel somewhat called out by this video showing up in my feed a week after I got my very first ancient coin after a colleague told me of her collection and inspired me to get my hands on an ancient coin myself. I should note that I don't see myself as a collector, just an enthusiastic history teacher who is somewhat obsessed with Roman history and up until now didn't even know you actually can own genuine historical artifacts just like that.
The thing is, after she encouraged me, I still was extremely anxious about fakes, especially with the price tag attached to some coins, so... I must admit this final hesitation was only dropped when I learned about premium uncleaned coins and I ended up buying one from a trader I learned through people on UA-cam mentioning them as one they bought from, just to see whether I get ripped off or whether customs knock me over the head for importing a historical artifact. Fortunately nothing of the sort happened and for the last week I have been super carefully tending to a Valentian I. AE3 Follis that I'm fairly sure is genuine because, well, I think nobody would bother to fake a heavily encrusted, somewhat damaged coin with a fairly beautiful patina and then sell it for just 3,50 €. Right? Right?! Right?!?
A good tip I have found for beginners who are looking to buy on eBay is the following:
If the coin listed who’s provenance is listed as coming from “an old estate” or something like a “collection from the 1970s” with no other details, it’s a fake. Eastern European sellers do this all of the time. And at least when it comes to hammered coins, these people will list 5-10 really rare coins like this at a time. It is extremely rare to have so many VF coins listed at $0 beginning bid prices from an estate that are so rare. They always sucker people in by allowing the coin to be returned in 30 days, no questions asked. This is a simple sales gimmick as the people who end up buying these coins generally don’t know they are buying fakes and don’t know the difference to return the coin anyway. I hope this helps
Don't be afraid to turn your nose up at a coin if anything is off. Very few pieces are so rare that you won't see another of that type at auction sooner or later.
Maybe not all, but a lot of fakes on ebay are offered as genuine by sellers from "Bugaria" and "Europe". Many false Spanish and Spanish Colonial 8 R's replicas are offered by sellers in "Poland".
Should read "Bulgaria", and as well as 8 R's there are cobs in various forms being offered and have many bidders on ebay.
100% agree Philip. I collect English hammered coins and most of the eBay listings from Eastern Europe are total fakes
A lot of fake higher-value modern coins (from the past 200 years) are available from eBay sellers in China.
Agreed, I fell for this recetly
Most fakes are cast and they have many small dot holes.At the rim sharp scrached lines made by tool to hide enter of alloy in the mode.In Roman Empire there where cast coin production but ocassionaly most from barbaryc tribes as copies of the time .Most coins are minted and surface in good examples is smooth. My recomendation for absolytly beginers is to by cheap ancient coins becasuse they are not in high intrest of production until they understand the energy and impresion of real ancient coin.
You are a brilliant creator and I really enjoy all of your content! As a fairly experienced numistatist, I would say the most important thing a beginner can do is to get themselves exposed to as much material as possible in the area of numismatics they wish to collect. It took me hours, year’s, of looking at coins to develop the eye to spot fakes
Also, buy a book or three that catalog the coins of the region & era that is of interest to you. You can learn a great deal from these, some do a very good job of explaining the fakes that were known at the time of publication. WG Sayles' "Classical Deception" provides a low-cost introduction to fake ancient coins.
One method that helps to confirm that a coin is probably real is to research old auction records. Sometimes you can find the exact coin having been sold in the past. Other times you can find a die "twin" to your coin. Sometimes you only get a reverse or an obverse match so you have to look carefully. This takes sometime but is also a great learning experience and to me part of the joy of collecting.
I think a few more comparisons between the legitimate and fake versions of certain coins would be quite helpful, especially pointing out common fake characteristics will be interesting for people trying to avoid fakes.
This is not the intent of this video, which is to make a first introductory "best practices" tutorial for beginners.
But you are right, I will at some point delve onto certain parts of coins to look at, common faking techniques, etc.
Another great video. Wish this was out there when I started collecting a few years ago!
I’ve literally been obsessed with collecting coins since I started about a month ago. I now have several including most of the 5 good emperors, a Septimius Severus with the Parthicus Maximus title, most of the Flavian dynasty (missing Domitian) and Nero. All of which are nice silver Denarii! Your videos have helped me a lot in building my numismatics knowledge.
Its very heart-warming to see Im helping people start their collections. Wish you the best on your collecting journey :)
Great video Leo. In many investment areas, the potential gains may tempt some people to asume wild risks. If you buy a CCC-rated bond, probably you will get an amazing profit but you surely risk to loose your money. This is also the case with ancient coins. Buying from a reputable dealer will be always more expensive, but I'm sure that you don't need to buy from doubtful people to make a good investment in ancients.
Thats a very interesting analogy. Indeed, I sometimes see ebay as a CCC-rated bond purchase on coins hahaha. We were discussing the double-antoninianii before, and in fact, I have seen more than once such coins popping up there.
Its really a matter of knowing your craft and knowing what to look for, but it is not very obvious for everyone.
@@ClassicalNumismatics I agree 100%, eBay is the worst place for a collector to make the very first purchases
I have bought many coins on ebay. I notice there are a lot of coins that besides not looking right are priced just too cheaply. Way way too cheap and from sellers with a vague identity.
"If the offer seems too good, it likely is"
I don't know about you but sometimes when I have browsed eBay for ancients I come upon some coins that just give me a 'fake' vibe.
Some of them hide "replica" somewhere in the title well making it look exactly like a real coin listing
An important well deserved video for the beginner coin collecting community. Very nice work man!
Thank you! Hopefully this prevents a couple of beginners from making dumb purchases.
It's funny that in the 21st Century numismatic association is enforcing a law that was originally proclaimed by a 2nd century Roman emperor (that only the emperor Hadrian can put Hadrian's face on coins).
Whoa, thats funny, which association is it?
@@ClassicalNumismatics what I mean is to fake an emperors coin during the emperor’s reign was a crime then, and still is now, during the emperors reign it probably got you in a lot more trouble though, it was death back then!
Thank you for a good video, as I have just started collection Roman coins, of the 5 good Emperors, Constantine gate type coins and those minted at Antioch. So this video as been most useful
As I have only just started out collecting Roman Coins, buying a fake is one of my biggest worries,so this video is usefull
I will make more videos on specific faking methods in the future, just need to find a good example to film and research it a bit more. Im glad to know it was useful for you as a beginner :)
Just wanted to say thanks for your videos, really helpful when starting out. And certainly among the very(!) few high quality youtube channels about this topic. Cheers!
Hi I have been collecting Roman Imperials since the early 60's. The last coins purchased were from a local estate auction 20 years ago here in Canada. Could I still have purchased fakes between 1960 and 2000. I am now far along in life that I need to sell the collection, and do not want to hurt any buyers. thanks
Yeah you could have. You may want to just look through stuff you haven't looked at in years and make sure it looks good to you now. With that much experience you ought to have a pretty good eye now. I recently went through a collection that someone inherited and found nearly a third of the items were fakes. Many were WRL copies so not even intended to decieve.
@@benbrauchler36 Thanks Sir, I will methodically review each piece and see what transpires.
If you use an auction house to help you disburse the collection they will identify problems.
I got hit by two fakes when I started out. Although these purchases occurred before the internet got big. I got no info on the reputation of the seller or other people's knowledge on determining fakes. How did I found out mines were fakes years later. Some collectors posted the pictures of their fakes and mines were exactly the same as the other photos. They were all made with a mold. That business finally closed a couple of years back.
I started slow, buying my first few coins from a local dealer. They were encapsulated by one of the 3 big grading companies. Now, in the EU, I use biddr and Numisbids to find coins I want and go directly to the auction house whenever possible. The buyer's fees are absurd but it's my only choice. I still haven't understood the huge price difference from one well known place to another though.
Always look at the other items in the seller's store... if many of the coins look very alike that is a big red flag!
This was an excellent video. I would love to learn more on coin collecting. I bought two coins on vacation at a history museum and it sparked my interest. I definitely need to learn more about collecting before I buy anymore though. I will definitely be watching all of your videos and many more. Would love to find out more information on the coins I bought. I can’t seem to find anything on them though. Thank you for your amazing content.
I think bidding at auctions with very good reputations such as CNG and Roma Numis can significantly decrease the risk of fakes
Even these auction houses selling fake coins, I have the prove. but as said on the video, a good auction house pay you back and that is what they do!
Just got into this... Your channel was a much needed discovery!
NGC doesn't guarantee authenticity on Ancients but strangely they do charge higher price on grading them than on other coins, the only thing "guaranteed" is the grade. Ironically, how would the grade even mean anything at all if the coin itself can not be authenticated as genuine... In numismatic terms, authenticity is always more important than condition, there's a big difference between a professional opinion and a professional guaranty
You can find some good coins from ebay but over the years I seen alot more fakes being offered so be careful thanks for the video
I am not all that interested in collecting. However the forensic aspect of fake detection is an interesting challenge. A method that may be very useful is to examine the metallurgy of coins. X-Ray florescence is a non destructive means of identifying chemical elements and their relative percentages with accuracy of better than 0.1% for hand held interments. They are not cheap but dealers may find such a tool useful. Another method (most likely impractical) would be isotopic analysis for example Silver (Ag) has two stable isotopes, 107Ag and 109Ag, with natural abundance of 51.8% and 48.2%.. These relative percentages should vary allowing the source to be identified. If any of these have not or are not in use it would be interesting to try.
I always make sure to get my coins from China. That way I know they are genuine counterfeits.. none of that wondering b.s. lol. J/k
J/k.
😂😂😂👍
If something seems too good to be true it probably is. On eBay I notice a lot of what appear to be give away values attracting no bids, primarily from eastern European sellers.. I can think of one I saw yesterday that is extremely rare--like only a few in existence--in extremely fine condition with a minimum bid of next to nothing and no bids. It just screamed fake.
I have noticed the same thing with unbelievably cheap rare coins that just scream fake. I won't bid on anything from anything from eastern Europe regardless of what it looks like.
Great video. Some very nice looking specimens there
Like with almost anything else before buying, do the research, learn about what to look for in case of fakes (there are certain indications that coin may be a forgery). In case if you do not have will to learn at least stick with reputable dealers or auction or fixed prices platforms. As one of the Ma-Shops dealers, I'm always saying the same thing to all new collectors. Diving blind into this hobby is almost the perfect recipe to lose your money.
great topic. for some other video, if you have ever bought some fake coins yourself, maybe you could show some as examples.
So what are the fakes on 3:40 :D? very interesting video, have only been collecting a few months ( and only use biddr for now), so usefull information for me!
I would say most of them are too perfectly round. Aside from being too round, the edges also are really smooth. The way the real coins were struck usually left a mark, mostly a smaller or bigger crack. The blank parts of the coins look a bit grainy and really uniform and too perfectly flat. Even the added patina looks too uniform. All in all these just look too neat and perfect. These were made with more care (and with modern tools) than the real ones back in the day. Sure there might be real coins that could look like these fakes, but they would be museum pieces and not something you would buy for 100 euro.
@@norrisf1469 thanks you
Great quality video!
As always a great video. Thanks@
Real ancient talk right here💥👏👍🤟🤘✌️
Great vid ,most useful.
I have friends of mine come up to
Me and say they have bought coins
found by so called Shepards in Tunisia.😲☹️
I am to embarrassed to tell them the bad news.
I will get them to watch your video.
Thanks I didnt know any of this.
Nice video!
Great content, thanks
The most perplexing thing is to see coins that are very similar with a wide disparity in price.
Great point!!!
What EBay sellers are reputable in your opinion? I’ve only ever purchased 1 coin from EBAY.I choose to use Vcoins personally.
No worry , Dei gratia coins based in Buckingham England are totally genuine.
Great info!
Byzantine coins fake and real. Some professional collectors say: - a genuine coin must be blurry and not clearly, because in that time technology of producing coins was primitive. And the figure into the coin must be
irregular and the letters difficult to read due to the time evolution. In the other side some others say that original coins metal must be detailed and clearly. And the fakes one must be not in good quality and the figure not clearly because the formwork will not riproduce the copy one in good conditions same as the original one. Now which of these is the genuine one ? when the figure into coin is clearly or when it is blurry ? Because i see a genuine coin that it was clean and the figure stamp looks so good clear, also i seen a genuine one which the figure is not clear and difficult to read it. Also i seen same even in fake one. Thanks for the video.
I've been looking at starting to collect ancient coins, and as odd as it might sound, counterfeits from the contemporary time periods are something that really interest me. are there any books out there on the subject?
eBay do in fact hold sellers responsible - via the eBay Money Back Guarantee. There is a time-frame of 30 days or maybe 60 days in order to raise a return request, but crucially during that timeframe, all sellers are required to accept your request, and provide a full refund, for any item "not as described". This works with condition and of course a counterfeit. In the U.K. all businesses are required by law to provide a refund within 14 days. eBay has essentially extended this out to a maximum of 60 days depending on the business (and it does ONLY APPLY to business sellers), and guaranteeing it: they get you your money, not the seller! Sure this does not therefore extended out as far as a lifetime guarantee but eBay are on the side of the buyer.
Feedback can be a crucial element to double check as well. I know we often do not do so, but it only takes a few seconds.
Solid information, thank you
Excellent advice
Hi Classical Numismatics, I am new to collecting ancient coins. Watching your videos has really inspired me. I was hoping I could send you some photos of 2 ancient coins I purchased and get your opinion on if they’re real or fake. I bought the coins on EBay and the sellers have really good ratings and reviews. Again, I really appreciate your videos.
Howard
Is their any good ebay sellers who always have legit coins
No problems Baron
Dei gratia coins based in Buckingham england.is totally genuine.
Any websites to stay away from
eBay at first, and any dealer that doesnt give a lifetime guarantee of authenticity
@@ClassicalNumismatics
Thank you. I have a question about NUMISCORNER. It's a French company founded in 1977.
What do you think about them?
ebay, never buy ancients from ebay
I just bought 8 fakes today on eBay 😢. I don’t even know if I will receive the coins
How do u know if u haven't received?
@@deannekliene2673 I sent the images from the listing to a trusted Authenticator
@@deannekliene2673 apparently they were obvious fakes
I actually bought fakes off eBay before too lol but among them was a real one worth 3x more what I paid for all of them I doubt they knew anything about roman coins.
I have one seller I deal with....find someone ur comfortable with....been on website for some time and good feedback.....real feedback .
Is there a market for ancient coin clippings?
I dont believe so. I mean, people like their coins as complete as possible, if all you have are mere fragments of it, theres not much point there.
@@ClassicalNumismatics thanks, I think the reason I find clippings interesting is because of the stories behind them
I'd love to buy some roman coins. But I assume everything is fake so I can't buy anything
You shouldnt. Hopefully this guide helps you.
Its MA shops and Vcoins, all of their sellers are certified and are hold legally liable in case they sell fakes
@@siisjwj7647 ok thank you!
Is buying a graded coin fine on eBay from any seller?
forget about graded coins
if it's slabbed it's a good indication that it's genuine... Even though it's not a guarantee.
@@jessefisher1809 you will also be paying 10x the price. So forget about graded coins rather
First of all, the old saying is buy the coin, not the holder. There are pretty convincing fake capsules that major counterfeiting operations use.
Second, it's much harder to inspect the edges and rims of a slabbed coin.
Third, some of the satisfaction of collecting ancient coins comes from holding the coin in your hand and imagining the connection with somebody that held the coin centuries ago.
Fourth, as mentioned, a genuine coin that is in a "graded" holder is both more expensive and comes with no guarantee from the certifying entity. Only if you get a guarantee from the seller do you have any recourse.
i want 100000 dollars for my coin no less :D
That needs to be a veeery fancy coin :)
@@ClassicalNumismatics i will video it you will see its very ancient
@@ClassicalNumismatics can you identify it who is this squirt :D
Its Fulip III bronze coin with horseman , but the man on horse is a littlebit damaged otherwise its very smooth and beautulifull coin a piece of history
Las monedas del video supongo que son genuínas?
Jajajaja, si, son genuinas.
pls show persian fake coins too plsssss.
Or anywhere else i can buy in america online
sa long taching the somting send my comment befor finishing my comments .so pls show persian coins .and also show fake persian coins .if you dont mind .
Biggest problem I've seen with ancient Persian coins (from the Aechemid Empire, Parthian Empire, Persis, Elymean Kingdom, Sassanian Empire) ... is tooling to enhance the legibility of legends and enhancing details of images on these coins. This seems to be very common with these coins, although it is also found on Greek, Roman, Roman Provincial and Byzantine coins.
BUYER BEWARE.
I have coin usa and other world coin since 1929 1960 1970
Many persian coins collecter .watching your video .so pls make others of persian coins .spi.persian fake
Persian coins are awesome. I showed an Iranian friend of mine a nice Persian coin of Khosrow. She is native Persian and when she saw it she was amazed. She almost cried when seeing and holding it. I was glad I could help her directly connect with her ancestral heritage! 🙂
I am sure you are not among these, but in the USA a lot of buyers will not deal with Spanish dealers. Too much funny business.
Im not a dealer, but you are right in your assessment, there are quite a few bad actors in the Spanish numismatic market.
@@christianweatherbroadcasting There is no proof god exists. No empirical evidence at all.
@@ClassicalNumismaticsAnd, in fairness, we have plenty of bad actors here in the US as well.